Poison or Cure? Religious Belief in the Modern World (with Christopher Hitchens and Alister McGrath)

For more on this event, visit: bit.ly/11aeLSh
For more on the Berkley Center, visit: berkleycenter.georgetown.edu
October 11, 2007 | The Berkley Center for Religion, Peace, and World Affairs hosted a debate, dialogue and discussion with Christopher Hitchens, prolific essayist and author, and Alister McGrath, Professor of Historical Theology at Oxford University, concerning religious belief in the modern world on October 11, 2007 at Georgetown University. Michael Cromartie, Vice Pesident at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, moderated the debate.

[@mintybadger6905]

If losing one’s religion could feel like a “religious experience”, that’s what listening to Hitchens does for me.

[@justinh.6683]

Certainly, albeit religious experience is very rationally explained through the understanding that a great many people are not able to intelligently describe their feelings or think rationally enough when experiencing them to distinguish the source of their emotions. So erroneously, strong feelings under religious or spiritual circumstances, are attributed to god by default. It's a clever game the religious play.

[@thomasdupont7186]

"Epiphany" may be the word you're searching for ?

[@CMcKay-82]

I love the way you put this.

[@darrelneidiffer6777]

​@@thomasdupont7186That's way to easy!

[@bharatpatel7682]

Supremely articulate, riveting and thought provoking. Never boring.

[@bharatpatel7682]

@Philip Carpenter My observation was regarding the great Christopher Hitchens.

[@Ostatebuckeye11]

Thank you

[@robertdumicz7309]

@@bharatpatel7682 If there's something scientific and intelligent in the claim of the Universe out of nothing... An ignorant of the countless testimonies, science and of the evidence, Hitchens was sadly a drunkyard and one who(e) especially liked to besmirch himself in immorality, the only difference between him and many others is that he was more vocal in searching a refuge in the dishonest claim of the anti scientific Universe by ityself and without a cause. Only God is supreme.

[@nmr3647]

Supremely a great babbler. A man that simply didn't realize, in arrogant fashion, the spirit that God put in his body, departed from him, and now he is dead without using the light God had inside of him. I have no heaven or hell to put anyone in, for we have all sinned and still do sin. But I believe God's word and his word goes for me and Christopher Hitchen both. If you die in sin, you will perish.

[@zhengfuukusheng9238]

Even from the grave, Hitchens lives rent free in the minds of butt-hurt religious fanatics

[@beeto45]

hitches is immortal thanks to youtube and us who wont forget him and keep coming back to hear him

[@paultimson6674]

people have said that before. but after 20 years new stuff supplants the old. i've seen it happen many people refuse to watch black and white films? or subtitled films. and so mega stars are forgotten. Hitchens is not a literary giant? he was a pundit. a newspaper man. he will be soon forgotten. Mark Twain at least became a book author. from Newspapers. you can go back fifty years to find the same religious arguments from sixties and seventies advocates. all forgotten. time buries almost everyone.

[@BenChaverin]

He will be remembered

[@BenChaverin]

@@paultimson6674 we are all short centimeters of strands weaved into a tapestry. Theres no reason to pretend each individual does not have an impact.

[@paultimson6674]

@@BenChaverin no he won't? very few people are remembered. who cares about Lili Langtrey? who was massive in her day. i know lads who do not even know who Joseph Stalin was? and Jimmy Cagney the top cinema actor of the 30's is now barely remembered. fame is fleeting. the next HOT THING, just buries the great talents. you watch Nat King Cole play a piano? or Nina Simone? they casually play music and sing. live. without all that guff of auto tuning. and it's seamless. throw it in the bargain bin?

[@BenChaverin]

@@paultimson6674 i didn't say he will be remembered forever, chill bro lol

[@Preston-cp7jt]

Christopher hitchens in my opinion was an absolute genius, the way he dissects an issue and gets to the core of why he's right is brilliant. rest in peace, the world lost a great mind way to soon.

[@hadesdescent6664]

@David Wang so true, and I love George Carlin, great clip I watched many times 👍🏿🤘🏿

[@aceventura5398]

Miss imformation is everywhere. Just because you dont find a crab under a rock, doesnt mean crabs dont live under rocks.

[@hadesdescent6664]

@@aceventura5398 crabs don't live under the rocks, misinformed you are

[@aceventura5398]

@@hadesdescent6664 Is that the best you got satanist. Like saying humans dont live in Hitchens, oops, kitchens, bathrooms, etc..... Come back with somthing worthy of your god. You embarrass him.

[@hadesdescent6664]

@@aceventura5398 I don't have a god, or any imaginary creation you like to worship! Be a slave to the religion and ignorant fool, that is your choice! Keep poisoning your mind!

[@jenc7173]

Christopher is brilliant. I used to be a fundamental Christian. He contributed to my leaving it behind with confidence and a clear mind.

[@althalus3267]

Enjoy your freedom fellow primate.

[@brokecreole]

you are now his disciple. There is no escaping.

[@geneshifter]

@@brokecreole no leaders, no final solutions, no strong men

[@shaunmacloughlin7303]

Hitchens never actually replied to a point but always went off at a witty but adolescent tangent. I have to admire him however for his remarkable faith in in the atheist superstition in spite of all scientific evidence to the contrary. I wonder what he would have made of "Is Atheism Dead" by Eric Metaxas that has brought the science up to date

[@jeffmilroy9345]

Chris can no more say what happened 2000 years ago than you can. But something important happened I assure you. Something that resulted in people naming a person after the Christ. Whether you choose to believe in a burning bush or virgin birth or cleansing of sin is meaningless. It is what Christ did that matters. If you choose to turn away from that it is your right. Just as it was my ancestors right to believe. But as one of the Wigtown martyrs John Milroy was hung summarily. Be careful of what you support and ask for.

[@Henria99]

One of the BEST debates with Hitchens. Clear statements, courtesy, and sharing of information. Love it!

[@carlomejia2212]

Professor Hitchens was a genius, we´ll miss him

[@robinrobyn1714]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.

[@robinrobyn1714]

No we won't. Imbeciles are not missed. Only geniuses are.

[@sleepisthecousinofdeath7395]

@@robinrobyn1714 did you have a seizure?

[@robinrobyn1714]

@@sleepisthecousinofdeath7395 No. Are you a worthless pos?

[@greenjupiter]

😂😂😂😂

[@WiccanGoddess33]

I'm a Hitchens-fanatic and have watched LOADS of debates including our dear Hitch, and I must say that Dr. McGrath struck me as a very compassionate, respectful man. He easily conceded to not knowing, merely believing, and most others that Hitchens debated wouldn't. I'm not a believer myself, but Dr. McGrath seems like a nice gentleman that would be great to chat with and is open-minded enough to possibly change his mind. An insanely satisfying debate. One of the best!

[@chiptom6461]

It's nice that you are a thoughtful individual. Just curious, who did you think was going to read your comment? Why do you believe that your opinion is so important that others are interested in it? I'm just puzzled as to why you would take the time.

[@GoodAvatar-ut5pq]

@@chiptom6461 Well, I liked it, for one. She's right, too. Hitchen's opponents have often been *very slimy, indeed.* McGrath is at least passingly a decent human being and it doesn't seem like he's running a dishonest grift. I definitely get that vibe from people like William Lane Craig, Dennis Prager and Kent Hovind. So, I'm not sure what you thought your point was?

[@tracyavent-costanza346]

I will be among those most willing to concede that not every christian is an ass-hat. I know some and keep them around since I have found that they are sometimes actually trying to walk their talk. I admire integrity, even if I do not share their world-view nor the elaborate ideology that seems to motivate it. Rather instead I have been acquainted with a few who actually saw the entire narrative system in a way that I could not entirely reject. So among the supposedly monolithic "christian majority" there does appear to be far more diversity than the prominient right-wing media mouthpieces would likely represent. And maybe it is rather karmic at some level that quite a few of the neo-apologists I have jousted with online, probably regard me as some kind of moral pariah. For some, I see no point in going to the trouble to correct their unfounded presumptions, and perhaps I have made a few about them as well.

[@GoodAvatar-ut5pq]

@@tracyavent-costanza346 My opinion is less kind, but that's probably because I live in an area *boiling* with hypocritical asshat American Republican Christians, who think that Trump is some sort of Messiah born again. These people *pretend* to love Jesus, but they worship Trump with all their heart. And as you can imagine, they're unpleasant, mean-spirited, cruel, judgmental, petty and whiny people. They're *EVERYWHERE* around here. Everywhere. The level to which the Evangelicals *completely idolize Trump* thoroughly disgusts me and turns me off to both Christianity and Republican "values."

[@John-xk2sd]

@@chiptom6461 why do you think your opinion is so important and that anyone would be interested in your opinion, just curious 🤔

[@chrisc7110]

One of my biggest regrets is discovering Christopher hitchens after he had already passed. He and Richard Dawkins were the biggest reasons why I became an atheist. And it's tragic that I found one of my very few heroes after he had already gone. You have my eternal gratitude Christopher. Ty

[@drmontague6475]

Why do they make a disbelief a such complicated argument. I will simplify it. I was a creationist, believed that there was an intelligent designer. I had a wet fart whilst walking around a shopping mall. I became a militant atheist.

[@markas5]

Wonderful.

[@robertdumicz7309]

He lied to you the way you like it!

[@santicruz4012]

@@robertdumicz7309 Dont project yourself

[@robertdumicz7309]

@@santicruz4012 So you too belive in an Universe out of nothing and with no cause..?

[@sbobo4437]

"What's it like to lie to children?" I miss this brilliant man.

[@Truth17John17]

Hitchens knows the answer. He knows all about lying: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5a0d6yVbNikibs

[@missesmew]

@@Truth17John17 in Canada, these bastards know what it’s like to molest and murder children. No getting around that, proof is been piling up and all the begit bagat bullshit doesn’t mean anything when kids are molested and murdered. Delusional pedophiles! Keep lying to yourself. lol

[@fareshtak.touhami412]

Probably the same as saying good old Thomas Jefferson, the slave owner, was an amazing human being because he was "enlightened" enough to not mention religion in the constitution.

[@deliriousmysterium8137]

@@fareshtak.touhami412 or what about abe Lincoln who wouldnt sign anti slavery bills when it didnt gain him a majority vote.

[@andrewbark885]

@@fareshtak.touhami412 Slavery was the done thing at the time, as wrong as it is. It would have been weird if he didn't do it. No person in history has been perfect but we can thank him for playing a small part in trying to keep religion from poisoning the American mind. Clearly hasn't been that efficient based on the levels of religion in the country but you can't have everything.

[@FireHazardz101]

Rest in power Professor Hitchens ❤ and thank you from the bottom of my heart

[@HalleluYAH7]

*Imagine, if you died right now, where would your soul go for eternity? Was everything you ever did without purpose, and never really mattered, or will you just stop existing, after you draw your last breath? Think about this, it is the most important question of your life. There is only one chance to get it right, and it is in this lifetime. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. Heaven is real, place of eternal bliss, peace, and perfection. Hell is real, place of eternal suffering, torment, and agony. You’re going to spend your eternity in one of those places. God's will is, that nobody would perish. One day, each and every one of us must appear before The Judgement Seat of The Holy Righteous God, and to give an account, how we have lived our life. The only way to get to Heaven is, if you’ve never broken any part of The God’s Law, in other words, if you’re without sin, and every single one of us have sinned. Not one person, who’s not born again from above, of The Holy Spirit of God, and is still in their sins, can inherit The Kingdom of God, for the wages of sin is death, and eternal damnation. Our sins separates us from God.* *But The Heavenly Father in His love and mercy, sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to atone for our sins. He left Heaven’s Throne, was God in flesh, conceived by The Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, lived a holy perfect life while being in same temptations as we are, yet without sin, was condemned unjustly to death, although being innocent, was beaten, mocked, flogged, and crucified on the cross, and gave up His life and Blood willingly on our behalf, for there is no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood, but Christ, The spotless and unblemished Lamb of God, The Final Perfect Sacrifice once and for all, took the punishment of our sins on the cross, sacrificed Himself for us and paid the sin debt in full, past, present, and future, so we can be forgiven of all our sins, and be redeemed back to God, after the fall in Paradise by satan's tempting, through The Holy Precious Blood, which Jesus shed on the middle cross at Calvary, in His everlasting love towards every single one of us.* *If you truly repent, confess your sins, and ask for forgiveness of all your sins from The Lord Jesus Christ, The Holy One of Israel, and believe with all your heart, that Jesus Christ of Nazareth, The Messiah, The Son of The one and only True Living God, was crucified at Calvary, died on the cross for our sins, was buried, rose from the dead by God’s power on the third day according to The Holy Bible, and by faith receive Him as your Lord and Savior, through The Holy Royal Blood of Jesus Christ you will be saved, and are born again from above, of The Holy Spirit of God. Every sin that weighs down your inner being, even the ones you never dare to speak of, will be forgiven. Repent, believe, follow Christ, and you will spend your eternity in Heaven with our Holy Almighty God, where is no more death, sorrow, pain nor crying.* *John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son (Jesus Christ), that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.* *John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him: ''I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life. No man cometh unto The Father (to Heaven), except by Me.''* *John 6:47 - (Jesus said unto them:) ''Verily, verily, I say unto you: He that believeth on Me, hath everlasting life.''* *The Book of Acts 4:12 - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under Heaven given among men (only Jesus Christ), whereby we must be saved.* *Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth The Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart, that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.* *Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of The LORD (Jesus Christ), shall be saved.* *Romans 8:1-2 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them, which are in Christ Jesus, (born again from above, of The Holy Spirit of God, who walk not after the flesh, but after The Holy Spirit.) For the law of The Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, hath made me free from the law of sin and death.* *Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, unto good works, which God hath before ordained, that we should walk in them. (According to The Holy Bible, salvation is completely, entirely, and 100% by faith in Jesus Christ, by His mercy, and work of the cross. God sees us worthy in Christ. We can’t earn it by our good deeds, and we’re not kept saved by our good deeds. God’s will is, that we’d do them, but He has given us free will.)* *Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness, which we have done, but according to His mercy, He (Christ) saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of The Holy Spirit.* *Isaiah 1:18 - ''Come now, and let us reason together, saith The LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.''* *1. Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, (God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), (Jacob = Israel), and one Mediator between God and men, The Man Christ Jesus. (There is only one God, in three different Persons: The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. This is called; The Holy Trinity. There are not three different Gods, but only one God, in three different Persons.)* *The Book of Revelation 1:8 - (Jesus Christ said:) ''I am The Alpha and The Omega, The Beginning and The Ending, says The Lord God; who is, who was, and who is to come, The Almighty.'' (The King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.)* *1. Peter 5:8 - Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking, whom he may devour.* *John 10:10 - (Jesus said unto them:) ''The thief (satan) cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come, that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.''* *Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.* *The Book of Revelation 22:12 - (The Lord Jesus Christ said:) ''And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according, as his work shall be.''* *The LORD bless you, and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you, and be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace.* *In Jesus Christ Holy, Royal, and Mighty Name, Amen.*

[@freedomlife3623]

@@HalleluYAH7 who cares, there is no soul just carbons which will breakdown and feed back to the earth. I do not wish anything eternal. How boring will that be. It’s a curse, not a bless.

[@AFMMarcelD]

@@HalleluYAH7 Go preach elsewhere, we Atheists sleep very well at night knowing that we don’t have to worship an invisible evil deity that doesn’t exist. Hail Satan!😈

[@thegreatatheismo5005]

@@HalleluYAH7 I wouldn't read your very, very long post even if I thought you had a credible argument for your loony position, which you don't.

[@SPL0869]

@@HalleluYAH7 did you really write all this bullshit?

[@AtamMardes]

"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool." -- Voltaire

[@saltybae0160]

I grew up in the christian church and have remained fearful of potential repercussions in the afterlife if certain codes of conduct are not followed. Hitch has completely obliterated that fear from me. I only discovered him in the last year and he is by a country mile the most informed person I have ever come across. His depth of tangible knowledge is insane. The amount of studying he must have done, research & counter research, to be able to 'prove' his reasoning & validate his opinions with absolute confidence is outstanding. He literally had 10 brains in his head, yet was able to communicate in a clear, decisive, un-pompous manner, focusing on delivering knowledge that might wake us all up. . None of Hitches opponents have debated with exact accuracy. Each one has tried to discredit him through their own interpretation of what they 'think' rather than what they 'know'. No two opponents have aligned in their ideology to an exact degree, isn't that a worry? Having said that I do believe religion is a control system and perhaps without it the world would look very very different indeed.

[@saltybae0160]

Al - I never said it did? & if you took that comment 'literally' then you shouldn't be here 🤣. It's also ok to make your point without being personal, which can be interpretaed as a shortcut for stupid. A new year is on the horizon try to be better! HNY

[@HalleluYAH7]

*Imagine, if you died right now, where would your soul go for eternity? Was everything you ever did without purpose, and never really mattered, or will you just stop existing, after you draw your last breath? Think about this, it is the most important question of your life. There is only one chance to get it right, and it is in this lifetime. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. Heaven is real, place of eternal bliss, peace, and perfection. Hell is real, place of eternal suffering, torment, and agony. You’re going to spend your eternity in one of those places. God's will is, that nobody would perish. One day, each and every one of us must appear before The Judgement Seat of The Holy Righteous God, and to give an account, how we have lived our life. The only way to get to Heaven is, if you’ve never broken any part of The God’s Law, in other words, if you’re without sin, and every single one of us have sinned. Not one person, who’s not born again from above, of The Holy Spirit of God, and is still in their sins, can inherit The Kingdom of God, for the wages of sin is death, and eternal damnation. Our sins separates us from God.* *But The Heavenly Father in His love and mercy, sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to atone for our sins. He left Heaven’s Throne, was God in flesh, conceived by The Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, lived a holy perfect life while being in same temptations as we are, yet without sin, was condemned unjustly to death, although being innocent, was beaten, mocked, flogged, and crucified on the cross, and gave up His life and Blood willingly on our behalf, for there is no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood, but Christ, The spotless and unblemished Lamb of God, The Final Perfect Sacrifice once and for all, took the punishment of our sins on the cross, sacrificed Himself for us and paid the sin debt in full, past, present, and future, so we can be forgiven of all our sins, and be redeemed back to God, after the fall in Paradise by satan's tempting, through The Holy Precious Blood, which Jesus shed on the middle cross at Calvary, in His everlasting love towards every single one of us.* *If you truly repent, confess your sins, and ask for forgiveness of all your sins from The Lord Jesus Christ, The Holy One of Israel, and believe with all your heart, that Jesus Christ of Nazareth, The Messiah, The Son of The one and only True Living God, was crucified at Calvary, died on the cross for our sins, was buried, rose from the dead by God’s power on the third day according to The Holy Bible, and by faith receive Him as your Lord and Savior, through The Holy Royal Blood of Jesus Christ you will be saved, and are born again from above, of The Holy Spirit of God. Every sin that weighs down your inner being, even the ones you never dare to speak of, will be forgiven. Repent, believe, follow Christ, and you will spend your eternity in Heaven with our Holy Almighty God, where is no more death, sorrow, pain nor crying.* *John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son (Jesus Christ), that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.* *John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him: ''I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life. No man cometh unto The Father (to Heaven), except by Me.''* *John 6:47 - (Jesus said unto them:) ''Verily, verily, I say unto you: He that believeth on Me, hath everlasting life.''* *The Book of Acts 4:12 - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under Heaven given among men (only Jesus Christ), whereby we must be saved.* *Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth The Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart, that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.* *Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of The LORD (Jesus Christ), shall be saved.* *Romans 8:1-2 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them, which are in Christ Jesus, (born again from above, of The Holy Spirit of God, who walk not after the flesh, but after The Holy Spirit.) For the law of The Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, hath made me free from the law of sin and death.* *Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, unto good works, which God hath before ordained, that we should walk in them. (According to The Holy Bible, salvation is completely, entirely, and 100% by faith in Jesus Christ, by His mercy, and work of the cross. God sees us worthy in Christ. We can’t earn it by our good deeds, and we’re not kept saved by our good deeds. God’s will is, that we’d do them, but He has given us free will.)* *Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness, which we have done, but according to His mercy, He (Christ) saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of The Holy Spirit.* *Isaiah 1:18 - ''Come now, and let us reason together, saith The LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.''* *1. Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, (God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), (Jacob = Israel), and one Mediator between God and men, The Man Christ Jesus. (There is only one God, in three different Persons: The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. This is called; The Holy Trinity. There are not three different Gods, but only one God, in three different Persons.)* *The Book of Revelation 1:8 - (Jesus Christ said:) ''I am The Alpha and The Omega, The Beginning and The Ending, says The Lord God; who is, who was, and who is to come, The Almighty.'' (The King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.)* *1. Peter 5:8 - Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking, whom he may devour.* *John 10:10 - (Jesus said unto them:) ''The thief (satan) cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come, that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.''* *Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.* *The Book of Revelation 22:12 - (The Lord Jesus Christ said:) ''And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according, as his work shall be.''* *The LORD bless you, and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you, and be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace.* *In Jesus Christ Holy, Royal, and Mighty Name, Amen.*

[@OswaldBatesIIIEsq]

"If hell were real, each occupant would be a shining reminder that god has failed." -- Robert Ingersoll

[@RobertCro]

@@HalleluYAH7 I also was brought up in an extremely Christian family. I believed every word in the bible and did my best to follow it faithfully. It wasn’t until my 20’s that I started to inform myself on what existed outside my bubble of belief. Realizing not one of my prayers, even the most insignificant selfless ones, had never been answered. What I thought was “god speaking to me” as a child was simply my imagination that was guided by the indoctrination I was exposed to. So here I pondered….and after 5 years of doubt, I came to this consensus. Knowing what we know about our history, if there is a god, it is not something I would ever want to be a part of. A creator that is so careless, cruel, and selfish…to create beings that are purposed to serve it and MUST love it. To simply allow all the misery and torture that endures every minute of every day to millions of people….and call it part of a eternal plan… No thank you. If it does exist, it can take its plan and shove it up it’s ass.

[@baneverything5580]

@@RobertCro Great. Keep supporting evil then. And keep being a fraud.

[@barrylondoff7235]

We needed Hitch this past year more than anyone.

[@GlowingMpd]

👍

[@holgerjahndel3623]

Also see the anthropologist James DeMeo about it.

[@caractacus22]

Damn right

[@Succubus.Albedo]

Past 4.

[@GlowingMpd]

@@Succubus.Albedo 👍

[@Aeis_Kalt]

Ah, yes. Christopher Hitchens, one of the greatest orators, and columnists, this planet ever spawned. Still have a few of his books to add to my collection to complete it, but I have what I consider to be the most important ones.

[@martinwinter373637]

L 41:03 41:03 is 😂😂ax 😮m

[@clappedoutmotor]

The idea of the planet spawning columnists is amusing to me

[@dryfox11]

@@clappedoutmotor The idea of a mastermind creator popping into existence out of nowhere is amusing to me. Oh, and you haven’t even heard the words “planetary formation,” have ya?

[@clappedoutmotor]

@@dryfox11 I've heard of those words, yeah. Usually used seperately. It's making me want to research how planets are formed!

[@BR540E]

I love Christopher Hitchens and the way he communicates reason. I'm thankful for these religious people who brought this communication out of him. I admire him for defending what shouldn't need defending. I'm impressed by how effortlessly he drops to the level of ignorance and refuses to be beaten by its experience, whereas any lesser person, such as myself, would be beaten silly. One of my favorite parts is when he gives the soberingly true answer for why there is "evil" in this world 54:47 That we are part of nature and not separate from it is nothing to despair about. It just is.

[@larryparis925]

Mr. Hitchens, though not a scientist, gets right to the heart of the matter: reason, science, and humanity...versus ignorance.

[@briandelaney9710]

Larry Paris It’s basically another form of bigotry

[@larryparis925]

@@briandelaney9710 Actually it is not, and you have failed to make the link between intellectual integrity and your claim of bigotry. Perhaps you are projecting your own personality traits.

[@thomascarroll9556]

@@larryparis925 one month on Larry, I guess Brian doesn't have anything.

[@davidmeikle3330]

Well said

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@Gelvins IRA Hitmen Or at very least, the coercion and dereliction of duty many tend to embody, oftentimes.

[@janman55]

Alister McGrath said “ Can you imagine god saying GO AND DO VIOLENCE TO SOMEONE” ? Perhaps he needs to re-read the Old Testament,. It is full of these commands from god.

[@2fast2block]

Did you ever read the first verse of the bible about the supernatural creation done by the supernatural creator, God? If you want to mock God, then you should have great evidence that creation happened all on its own. There is NO proof of that. Only a fool will even think that and accept it. Once that's accepted, then all the rest of foolish thoughts not caring about details will follow. Here is a great example of what a fool accepts. They started it by accepting a natural creation and is not embarrassed to show their ignorance from that point on. So if you want to pretend you know what the bible says and took it in a sequential manner to understand it (which generally how books go), then show what a real bible expert you are and how much you love reasoning by giving evidence that creation happened differently from how the bible says it happened.

[@ptuffgong8504]

@@2fast2block What a ridiculous concept. "If you want to mock God, then you should have great evidence that creation happened all on its own." BULLSHIT. We don't need to prove anything else, but people are working on it. You need to prove God. (ex Christian who knows the Bible better than most Christians I have ever met. The Bible is genocidal slavery porn.)

[@2fast2block]

@@ptuffgong8504 "What a ridiculous concept. "If you want to mock God, you must have proof of something else."" So you put in quotation marks something I never quoted. You sure are honest. "BULLSHIT. We don't need to prove anything else, " Says the dumbass who can't prove you can get past the first verse. You want to jump around just as I said, "So if you want to pretend you know what the bible says and took it in a sequential manner to understand it (which generally how books go), then show what a real bible expert you are and how much you love reasoning by giving evidence that creation happened differently from how the bible says it happened." "You need to prove God." I am because your dumb ass can't come up with how we got creation naturally. It's because it is impossible. We have no physics for a natural creation. So who or what did it naturally? Nothing. It is a supernatural God. "but people are working on it." We've worked on it. Real science says nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the fools resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. So you have doubts about the laws above. We can't conclude yet these laws and what the clearly prove. The door is wide open for you to do that but you'd rather wimp out rubbing your pussy as if someday this will all be thrown out. The laws are wrong somehow. Such things happening naturally to you yet you have no proof of it. God got it wrong wth ALL the science to back it up but you got it right with NO science to back you up. You're a dumbass.

[@karlrschneider]

@@2fast2block fuck you and fuck your filthy old collection of bronze pornography and the alleged deity described therein who would be, if it existed, the most despicable, unpleasant character in all fiction. www.godisimaginary.com/video2.htm

[@alanthompson8515]

@@2fast2block Hi. Your: " Real science says nothing does nothing." This puzzles me. Are you advocating unreal science as an alternative - "fiat lux" and all that? Otherwise, as a user of the Internet, you leave yourself open to being called a hypocrite. Perish the thought but, if real science does nothing, and there was an accident at home, I guess you would send up a smoke signal and wait for the local shaman to arrive in his chariot. No?

[@hafidhafsaadiqah5957]

Always a pleasure to listen to Christopher Hitchens!!

[@counterculture10]

Incredibly liberating!

[@chrisogonas]

10 years old, but as exciting and thought-provoking as ever! Quite a remarkable debate 👏👏👏

[@whirledpeas3477]

16 years old

[@dr.naheedjamal6900]

I miss Hitchens so much.His style, accent,knowledge sense of humour and debating skills.

[@crawford2871]

His "joke" about the Amish girl, in light of what the other chap had just mentioned regarding the murder of five Amish children, was just about the most callous and disgusting thing I've heard in a so-called civilised debate. And you miss his "sense of humour"...

[@crawford2871]

@@EternalGaze8 You don't know what a strawman is.

[@crawford2871]

@@EternalGaze8 I understood perfectly well. The fact that he thought it appropriate timing was appalling. Timing is key in comedy and he knew what he was doing, surely. Amish girls were mentioned twice in this discussion: i) the chap mentions five of them being murdered; ii) Hitchens, moments later, telling that 'joke'. Here's what you're missing, I would probably have found it funny if it hadn't been timed so badly so as to almost insult the memory of those poor girls. I'm not saying he was speaking of them directly, which if I'm not mistaken you believe I am, rather that his timing was terrible and indicative of his complete disregard for religion (which is fine, that's his opinion) to the point he would muddy the memory of these girls by telling that joke when he did.

[@vizzini2510]

@@EternalGaze8 Some people just have no sense of humor, and they prefer to seek offense in everything they hear. These are people that you do not want to meet at a party.

[@robertdumicz7309]

Your hero of the plot "nothing" presented by Richard Dawkins, 50 seconds of pure joy and epic entertainment, give a Yt search for: Richard Dawkins Gets Laughed At By Crowd. Quotes of famous secular scientists ackowledging the bias and dishonesty of the secular so called scientific community: 1. Even if all the data points to an intelligent designer, such an hypothesis is excluded from science because it is not naturalistic. S.D.Todd. Nature 410(6752):423 September 30, 1999 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. UNDERSTANDING THE MATERIALIST MINDSET "Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs... because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world...but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door." Richard Lewontin, Billions and Billions of Demons The New York Review. January 9, 1997, p.31 -End quotes.

[@RichardKefalos]

Hitchens: "I don't think we want to go back to a world where we think the earth is flat, and the sun revolves around it..." 2021: "Hold my beer....."

[@RichardKefalos]

@Gary Fletcher Why would he need to respect a fictional entity? Honestly, why would god command more respect than, say, the boogie-man or the wicked witch of the west?

[@commenterperson4481]

@Gary Fletcher which of the gods?

[@commenterperson4481]

@Gary Fletcher ..and the man of faith have spoken. Like C.H. always says: name one evil thing -done- said in the name of religion....

[@RichardKefalos]

@Gary Fletcher Why go to heaven, when all the interesting people are in hell? You definitely confirm that statement.

[@RichardKefalos]

@Gary Fletcher If that is the case, you are going to be frying right next to me though... Doesn't the bible teach you to love your neighbor? I'm not feeling any love here)))) In fact, it sounds like you have sadistic tendencies, enjoying the fact that I am going to burn entirely to much)))))

[@wolfganggoethe2569]

I discovered Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, and Dennett in the Summer of 2008. It was a turning point in my life, and I’ve never looked back since. And the irony is that I’m a professor of world religions. And yea, my agenda has totally changed…..for good.

[@weekendwerewolf7157]

I believe the more you learn about all religions, the less you will believe any of them

[@robertdumicz7309]

A blessing to not be a physics professor, because then the idea of all out of nothing and without a cause would drive you crazy. But so you pretend that what you teach is fake and the Universe would come out of nothing, nothing wrong with thaaaaat nananananaaaa...

[@weekendwerewolf7157]

@@robertdumicz7309 hopefully your next comment actually contains something intelligent

[@robertdumicz7309]

@@weekendwerewolf7157 My previous actually contain what you hope for, it's just that you didn't notice it.

[@endsdio4834]

Just discovered Hitchens recently. I’m only 23. I was wondering what books would recommend?

[@davidmoffitt5681]

Probably the most intellectually stimulating, eloquently delivered (on both sides) debate i have ever seen. If this was scripted dialog in a movie, it would be award winning. All the more reason to watch this again, again and again. Framing arguments, phrasing arguments and delivering statements which not only prove a point but are artistic in their creation is an intellectual work of art. I have watched this debate several times and I am always mesmerized. On our best days, may we be as eloquent and concise in expressing our thoughts on these folks are. BRAVO!

[@barbaralachance5836]

And here I am in 2022 and I've just discovered this guy 🤦😊 what a great mind. I wish he was still alive

[@tracyavent-costanza346]

hitchens is very much alive on youtube debates

[@elmoblatch9787]

Better late than never, Barb.

[@marketandeat7828]

He is in hell and i can confirm as Per Bible

[@tracyavent-costanza346]

@@marketandeat7828 i can confirm that you are an arrogant idiot and I did not even have to look in the bible to discover that.

[@robertbentley3589]

Be sure to share him with your friends.

[@anton1949]

Hitchen's best line I think is "who would even want it to be true?" A celestial dictator who watches everything you do your entire life. Then set you on fire if you displease him.

[@2fast2block]

Your Hitch is dead then will be judged by God, shamed, then thrown into the lake of fire to be now more, just as you fools are heading. Hitch who pretends to know the bible as he screws up on it over and over again including what faith means biblically. ---"Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated”--- Christopher Hitchens Now, look at what biblical faith really means that Hitch the dumbass didn't even look at: Biblically, faith means trust. It's a trust by evidence seen. God asks that we prove things. To reason. To get knowledge. To study. God has nothing to hide. We develop trust from what is seen, and that which is not seen yet is trusted also because of the trust built up from what is seen. It's much like a human relationship. We don't trust much until a person has gained that trust from what is observed. The difference is though, God is not limited to human powers. He created us. Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. crossexamined.org/biblical-faith-vs-blind-faith/ www.truthortradition.com/articles/what-does-the-bible-say-about-faith www.revisedenglishversion.com/Appendix/16/Faith_is_Trust www.truthortradition.com/articles/faith-a-confident-expectation-of-gods-promises-coming-to-pass www.truthortradition.com/articles/hebrews-1-11-and-faith Hitchens always went into evasive word farting to avoid key questions like how we got the creation of the universe. Real science says nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the fools resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We can't even get science without God. The laws of nature only can come from a Lawgiver, God. Only fools follow Hitchens.

[@monadarling74]

@@2fast2block please do go on because you're HILARIOUS!

[@2fast2block]

@@monadarling74 how a dingbat gives this evidence to somehow prove me wrong... "please do go on because you're HILARIOUS!" It's evidence to those who are a waste of life.

[@xarmanhskafragos2516]

@@2fast2block Excuse me sir i believe that your brain is damaged , maybe you should check that out.

[@2fast2block]

@@xarmanhskafragos2516 more dingbat science that somehow was supposed to show how much smarter they are in showing I'm wrong in what I wrote... ...and I'm not making this up....this really is their evidence... "Excuse me sir i believe that your brain is damaged , maybe you should check that out."

[@donholt3361]

Greatly admire the Berkley centre for their warm welcome to Christopher Hitchins and willingness to engage with someone they know will absolutely not share their world view.

[@NicksMagicstorytime]

Hitchens’ intro has to be one of his best, most scathing criticisms of religious thinking.

[@Logofadog]

I wish I had half the elegance and wit Hitch , so uniquely brought to the conversation You are truly missed buddy!!!!

[@johnnycharisma162]

Logofadog 420 you called hitch buddy? What an insult.

[@Logofadog]

It wasn’t intended as an insult. Won’t you be like jebus and forgive me

[@Cristina-wv4pv]

Brilliant mind, l miss him terribly. I read everything he wrote, more than once. When l finished his last book, l closed the book waited 10 seconds and re-read "God is not GREAT."

[@studio-flash]

I wish I had a tenth.

[@2fast2block]

@@Cristina-wv4pv "l closed the book waited 10 seconds and re-read "God is not GREAT."" Wonderful. God is not great. Hey, how did Hitch answer how we got the creation of the universe without God. Surely Hitch covered that. Can't wait to hear.

[@petersutton523]

Every time I hear a theologian speak I become more convinced of the correctness of my atheism. The childlike ramblings of the proponents of religion just serve to shine a light on the fatal frailty of their position.

[@mysticwine]

The atheist position that existence just . . "happened", something from nothing. I call that frailty. I call it stupid atheistic nonsense! Full of nothing to contribute.

[@Pheer777]

I'd day individual theists and interpretations of religions can be silly and flawed, but there is merit to spirituality and theology as a discipline.

[@albacan]

@@mysticwine so adding a few spurious words crediting a god is credible? Which god? How did she do it? What evidence do you have?

[@Sir-Complains-a-Lot]

@@mysticwine Its not, just do the research. And even if you dont follow that what makes you think the magic man in the clouds is more likely?

[@mysticwine]

@@Sir-Complains-a-Lot Results.

[@ritamariekelley4077]

Above all, Christopher Hitchens displayed kindness and a passionate caring for others. He prioritized justice. He was profoundly moral. That he criticized religion was merely his exercise of rationality and logic. I miss him. I wish his voice was not silenced. He was a strong force for good. I couldn't believe how McGrath missed entirely the main premise of Hitchens' philosophy: We should be doing the right thing because it's right, just, fair and decent without the threat of eternal suffering.

[@kihntagious]

His speech, words are like listening to a symphony. Glorious.

[@EricRoss57]

Indeed!

[@metroidmayhem8463]

"If I can't be erect at least I can be upright" lol Hitch was a comedic genius.

[@kiwitrainguy]

He said that during his debate with his brother Peter as well.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Did you ever ask yourself why some people are born crippled in a refugee camp and others in Beverly Hills? It is because the one born crippled maybe raped his daughter or tortured people in some prison. Reincarnation allows life to make sense, nothing else can.

[@metroidmayhem8463]

@@jeffforsythe9514 it's an interesting theory yes

[@jeffforsythe9514]

@@micktaylor891 There is a reason for everything that happens. If you see, for example, a child with a horrible disease it would because in that child's past life, it committed horrible acts. That is called karmic retribution. That is just the way things are, I think that was mentioned in the Bible when God said leave the judging to Me.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@jeffforsythe9514 Retribution? Retribution is a SIMPLISTIC approach to ethical law or restitution. Others say rebirth is so you can experience what you did to another, to gain THEIR view of it, or to repay a debt to someone, by helping them with an example, or a service. It can be defined as far more complicated than you've so far put it. And where did you even get your information on it from? And if we're including mad angelic revolts in a perfect realm into this - well, there's very little clear reason for that, yet.

[@mrdrone4253]

Two words can sum up everything McGrath said, WORD SALAD. The moderator doesn't seem to care what Hitchens has to say. He's having a conversation with McGrath while hitchens talks

[@GlowingMpd]

👍

[@33roses]

I’m a Christian and thought that was so disrespectful.

[@jeffmckeown9639]

But everyone else was listening to Hitch.

[@GlowingMpd]

@@jeffmckeown9639 😀👍

[@shibainu6087]

You'll often find that the most entertaining aspect these debates is the odds being heavily stacked against Hitchens and him still winning every time.

[@ginocastro5107]

During my lifetime I have bounced around in every major monoteisc denominations in search of spiritual satisfaction and in denial of my own self since a very young age. Raised in a catholic background family, turned protestant evangelical baptist at the age of eighteen, lived a lifetime of church membership, messianic sinagogues and eventually had a go at Islam in Saudi Arabia. Throughout all of my different religious experiences, there have always been questions, which have raised the eyebrows of priests, pastors and imams alike, and logical answers were never provided. Only recently, many years after his passing, I have finally gotten answers to many of my questions from this amazing man Christopher Hitchens! After having heard many of his takes on religion and the whole system of layers of lies, deceits and exploitation that I had throughout my life been cognous of, Christopher utters the very same sentiments I've carried about the non-existence of god, the cohersive nature of a loving deal for salvation that never made sense to me, and the logical evidence based approached truths I have hungered for all my life! Thank you Christopher Hitchens, though gone, but never, never forgotten!

[@billmiller3425]

The best response I can think of to the question of "what do you think it's like after you're dead" is - 'Do you remember what it was like before you were born? No. 'That's what it's like'.

[@davesipsy7587]

I hear in in Professor McGrath's defense of Christianity, the same basic theme I hear in virtually every discussion I have with Christians on the validity of supernatural faith: No matter what logical assertion you make, the ultimate response is; "Okay, but what is really important is how I FEEL about Jesus." So, the debate can never advance because of the disparate platforms. One person is arguing from a basis of logical reasoning and the other is arguing from a basis of emotional sensation.

[@zgs12212012]

Dave Sipsy It’s a matter of logical levels and logical types that beliefs s get stuck because their ideas are not true to fact

[@FactStorm]

Well-said, spot on! I experience the same thing over & over again on all my years on this earth. It's unsettling and sad how these people succumb to delusion.

[@jakemichael8586]

Religion is a sickness! The religous never make a statment that can be tested. So religous debate just is adebate the cercel the drane!!

[@nonyabidnazz7487]

emotions are not a means to demonstrate objective *truth*

[@Queenofthorns588]

Agreed. Often the last ditch defense for many individuals of faith is "I feel a certain way when i believe in this thing, who are you to tell me how this is a bad thing." I think many individuals of faith are merely trying to cope and hope. They are often trying to make sense of an otherwise indifferent reality. But in this process, they learn to see patterns in the clouds and follow some rather miserable people into horrible acts. I think (as a therapist, mind you) that any deconstruction of faith should not merely critically look at the logical conclusions of their beliefs and the reasonability of fantastic claims, but also validate the core need that these religions often attempt to fulfill in that person.

[@robertbuckley3762]

And who will replace the legend Christopher Hitchens? :( I know of no one that can fill his shoes. I miss him dearly.

[@rachelnuku3170]

Maybe Matt Dilahunty??

[@kattcarter8357]

@@rachelnuku3170 Not replace. But certainly take up the mantle along with many others within the atheist community. I love me some Dillahunty though!

[@rachelnuku3170]

@@kattcarter8357 agreed

[@commenterperson4481]

@@rachelnuku3170 Joking?

[@commenterperson4481]

@@kattcarter8357 Not even remotely close.

[@tlcmeans]

Wow, two powerful, educated, and dynamic speakers with opposing views...I love it. We need to learn from and emulate this interaction

[@christianbennis419]

I miss this man, he is needed now more than ever! Problem is, people are not receptive to logic thinking of our history. It is man made tales, nothing more, nothing else! 🧚🏻‍♀️🕺

[@michrich2000]

" I know I've been a little verbose" it's why we listen to you, we love it.

[@paulgemme6056]

So brilliant that he believed that everything that exists came from nothing. No designer, no creator. Try putting a paper clip in a garage and see how long it takes before it becomes a Cadillac. Without a designer and a creator, it will never become a Cadillac.

[@jonathanrussell1140]

​@@paulgemme6056isn't it funny how god the all powerful can't build houses, roads, sewers - useful stuff....

[@paulgemme6056]

@@jonathanrussell1140 When things were perfect (sinless), man didn't need a house or clothes and all the food he could eat was right there in front of him (Freely given) on all the trees. When man sinned, he ruined the perfect set up. Man is the most destructive creature on the planet.

[@bigaschwing2296]

The brilliance of Christopher Hitchens amazes me every time.

[@AllansStation]

His legacy lives on! This man has brought the truth to millions, it was through him that I saw the truth and became free form the religious dogma, Life without religion is life with true freedom.

[@bigaschwing2296]

Observer I couldn’t agree more

[@gregsmith5134]

This guy was an idiot he was supposed to be a brilliant biologist yet didn’t know how the human body works? He killer himself via his addictions. Such a genius hahaha

[@MeeMee-gz5vp]

@@AllansStation same here. Many thanks to Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins for setting me free! :)

[@libbah]

HE IS TRULY AN AMAZING HUMAN BEING.

[@timothymulholland7905]

We miss you Hitch!

[@jamesepperson5940]

I just discovered Hitchens early this week when I was looking for Richard Dawkins debates. I now can’t decide who I like more hitchens or Dawkins. I can only say I will be a little bit sadder when Dawkins dies just as I’m sad to find out that Hitchens died. They have both helped me rationalize this world I find myself in

[@Tretas.]

Dawkins is more matter-of-fact, which is the outcome of his extensive scientific background. He switfly strikes the BS core, like he did fairly recently against Jordan Peterson's DNA/coiled snakes nonsense. Dawkins was barely allowed a word in, but half a dozen were more than enough for him to utterly demolish his opponent. Hitchens is more literary; his speeches more memorable due to his excellent poetic rethoric, which lends itself perfectly to inspirational videos. Check on YT the 'Hitch Series' if you haven't -- start with 'Unwoven Rainbow'. Both are great and used to completement each other. And Dawkins, being a healthy octogenarian, already surpassed the avg. lifespan of a Christian (72.1 years) which is a huge bonus just by itself.

[@jamesepperson5940]

Well I certainly didn’t expect anyone to respond to this but I was just talking to my friend yesterday about that Dawkins/Peterson conversation and how hard it was to listen to and at that point when Peterson was talking about seeing his own DNA on an acid trip made me turn it off. I lost all respect for Peterson and I was only giving him another chance after watching him embarrass himself interviewing Penrose and Peterson kept asking him dumb questions the whole time and trying to get into a whole spiritual philosophic esoteric bs rant. Thanks for the recommendation though

[@Tretas.]

@@jamesepperson5940 Penrose visually aged 10 years in trying to unravel wtf Peterson was on about. There's stream of consciousness and then there's Petersonian stream of unholy diarrhea. Poor Penrose; what torture.

[@jonathanrussell1140]

​@@jamesepperson5940 Have you discovered Alex O'Connor, Matt Dillahunty and AronRa yet. Alex goes deeper into the philosophy and AronRa is brilliant on real word refutations of everything religious. He provides the extensive detail on the things Hitch tended to gloss over or summarise. And Matt Dillahunty is somewhere between the two of O'Connor and AronRa.

[@jamesepperson5940]

@@jonathanrussell1140 I have discovered Matt and he’s great but not the other ones yet. It’s crazy you just commented after a year and only within the last week have I been getting back into this stuff

[@StandOnGuard4Thee]

Im a lifelong sufferer of religious trauma syndrome. Atheism, and more specifically skeptisim is helping me tremendously by not only seeing the bigger picture. As someone who use to be in cults in my life (twelve tribes yellow deli) and a extreme branch of the pentecostal church, at the age of 34, my life, belief system, and my independent personality is slowly coming out.. i wish i could tell mr hitchens that the irony is that the knowledge he shares, sets you free indeed:p

[@phlarg2]

Very powerful. Im sorry for what you have had to go through. 🥰

[@rovidius2006]

It is tragic that Mother Nature allows for impostors to roam around and impersonate truth for personal gain but that means that we are also free and allowed to seek for that that is true ,life has a purpose of its own above all ..if we continue what was received that is the fulfilment of our perceived duty here .

[@chrisheath2637]

First - shed guilt...

[@guillermochavez2515]

I would advise anyone to stay away from cults, avoid radical postures.

[@derekbland5253]

If you want peace at time of troubles go to some woods. Smell the air, look at everything around you, above you and at your feet. Breath deeply, smile and relax.

[@andrewmorton3344]

I am pleased that McGrath finds some of the passages in the Old Testament "disagreeable". I find genocide disagreeable too; in fact, I'll stick my neck out and say I really disagree with the idea!

[@stylis666]

Yeah... but how is he going to show people to be wrong who do agree with passages most of us find most disagreeable? The entirety of religion relies on rationalizing wishful thinking and "interpreting" cherry picked "evidence" to fit presumed factually correct biases and can't show that anyone else's is wrong. Religion therefore encourages harmful and dysfunctional thinking that can and does justify everything. I'll stake my life on it and say that religion is always harmful by its very foundation: accepting claims without evidence.

[@Longtack55]

That makes him a heretic. The NT and OT are of equal value and the NT makes this clear.

[@MeeMee-gz5vp]

@@stylis666 The sad part about it all is people are still indoctrinating their children

[@thereisnogod1473]

@Jazzkeyboardist1 please lay off the crack

[@thereisnogod1473]

@Jazzkeyboardist1 you seem to be an obsessed pervert. also i noticed your psychotic sentence structure. what hurt you so bad, in his words, that you became this way?

[@krishnanunnimadathil8142]

To answer Rev. McGrath’s basic question, “Can there be a metaphysical, transcendental basis for morality in human interaction?”, the response is that it is eminently possible for a sound basis for morality without any transcendental basis at all. It boils down to respecting others and their property rights, and the idea, as correctly enunciated by Hitchens, of a universal dictator, to arbiter between right and wrong, basically takes off the burden of seeking virtue from the individual, who is the ultimate unit of account in a civilised society. Strong belief in a universal moral arbiter as a sort of a morality backstop is in large part responsible for the impunity with which property and individual rights are violated in societies across the world.

[@KingsOfSpins]

The cadence of Alister McGraph's voice, as he is delivering his belief is hypnotizing, almost like a poet or even a melodic rapper where your senses get pulled into the melody and accept the words as given, much like a passionate preacher. NOT being critical of McGraph at all, just observing my own self losing myself into the vocal rhythm. FYI - the religious troubles in Northern Ireland, Alister McGraph's homeland, were brought to peace by many quarters including a significant part of that evolution being a drug called MDMA. The young dance music loving Catholics and Protestants bonding on the dancefloors of Northern Ireland, falling in love then returning to their families to declare their unions (including pregnancies) thereby forcing their parents to view the futures of their young kin and future grandchildren through the kaleidoscope of religious violence or through the eyes of love. Love won. A PBS doc is in development... Christopher Hitchens (RIP) - a true sage of our times.

[@tonyhostetter497]

He is a preacher

[@jrantajoki]

I think that McGraph very much revealed himself at the beginning already. He is just one of those who can´t cope with the thought of accepting all the "we don´t knows". Replace the "We don´t know" with god, and there is a comforting, easy resolution to the questions yet to be answered by science. So he is just a cliché, possibly a brilliant mind in some ways.. but weak and faulty in others.

[@DaveWhoa]

looked like he was microdosing on mdma

[@ob2249]

yet I find Mcgrath `s v0ice is red0Ient 0f meaningIess meek pr0testant serm0ns deIivered by meek, dare I say, wet vicars 0f dibIey his v0ice is irritatingIy 0bseque0us he c0mes acr0ss Iike rimmer in red dwarf when he`s pIanning t0 attack the baddie with a IeafIet campaign my resp0nse t0 his awfuI argument ? is, 0h dear reaIIy ? aaw

[@karlschmied6218]

@@jrantajoki All gods are "gods of the gap," dei ex machina whose purpose is stress relief. Pain pills. But these drugs often have painful side effects.

[@2014saints]

Anyone who refers to their previous held atheism as "faith" probably doesn't actually understand atheism.

[@Birkguitars]

Or faith for that matter.

[@BradWatsonMiami]

Reincarnation has been proven through theory and the scientific method including experimentation; see Seal #7 of the 7seals.blogspot.com . There is no "hellfire" or eternal torture. There are pleasant reincarnations and unpleasant ones. 'There Are No Coincidences'. Nobody is more twisted than atheists who were the BIGGEST mass-killers in history, e.g. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao, Hirohito, and Il Sung. The world was saved in WWII by the Christians Churchill, FDR, Truman, and Eisenhower.

[@2014saints]

@@BradWatsonMiami Hitler claimed he was a Christian. But pointing to some atheist like Stalin that did something bad says nothing about any other atheists. There's no dogma, commandments, or leaders in atheism. It's not like their lack of religion was what compelled them to do anything.

[@Birkguitars]

@@BradWatsonMiami Although there is a lot of technical language in the piece to which your link connects there is a fundamental error in the text. There is a statement "Science is based on the observation patters in Nature/reality and explaining them mathematically". Although a lot of science is reliant on maths for measurement there is more to it that explanation. Scientific methodology is intended to find results which are reproducible in a way which confirms that there is only one explanation. There are no such experiments for reincarnation and there is no peer reviewed reproducible explanation of reincarnation. There is also a fundamental error in this statement as, for example, the difference between Newtonian explanations of gravity and the lack of any quantum explanation of gravity. Newton gave us the maths but we have not yet reached the theory of everything so maths alone is not enough. Others have made the point that atheism does not command anyone to commit genocide but the bible does. It explicitly commands the Israelites to slaughter the men and boys of other tribes, to murder the women and to keep the virgin girls to be slaves. It explicitly allows perpetual inherited slave status for those who are not Jews. That is a fundamental difference between religion and atheism.

[@BradWatsonMiami]

@@2014saints Hitler was a compulsive liar bent on manipulating the masses. His actions were the opposite of the Christ. Why are you trying to paint him as something other that the BIGGEST Antichrist of his generation? He didn't believe in GOD or there being consequences for his actions and that IS what atheists believe.

[@Steve-Cross]

I wish I had half of Christopher Hitchens intellect. What a brilliant mind and gift for words he had. He is sorely missed.

[@derp8575]

Remember he was pro-life and anti-socialist.

[@tmuxor]

@@derp8575 so what? Lol. I don't think that takes much away from what he's most known for.

[@derp8575]

@@tmuxor Just giving factual information. That's all.

[@robertdumicz7309]

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools...

[@Steve-Cross]

@@robertdumicz7309 there speaks a person, who still believes in fairy tales.

[@garciadany6759]

How is it that this is so relevant 15 years later?

[@lightbeing8174]

watch the devil and father amorth trailer. That is a real exorcism being documented in real time.

[@luckylarry71]

Forgive me if I say so, but the good professor McGrath strikes me as someone who has never even remotely experienced the cruelty, injustice and misery caused by any religion whatsoever, let alone found himself on its receiving end. I am genuinely in awe of how much of absolutely nothing he had to say, dodging and sliding every inconvenient question or challenge in this debate. Talk about a stark contrast between him and Mr. Dinesh D'Souza, who not only acknowledged every single point made by Christopher when he debated him, but actually even made some very interesting and well delivered arguments of his own.

[@philippeberaldin5457]

Hitchens ,like Sagan ,I will listen to them again and again .Vitamins for the brain,that's what they are. Thank you Christopher. Thank you Carl.

[@luisrodriguezvera5935]

God loved C Hitchens and Sagan until the end. He loves you, too. That s a fact.

[@acspicer]

@@luisrodriguezvera5935 Which god? How did you prove that your particular version was the right one? Show your work.

[@hifibrony]

Prove it. With testable, observable evidence. Otherwise go sit in the corner.

[@Mostopinionatedmanofalltime]

Sagan was a moron.

[@hifibrony]

@@Mostopinionatedmanofalltime To quote the great physicist Wolfgang Pauli, you're not even wrong. To quote Bugs Bunny, ''whatta maroon!"

[@susanvadencourt1241]

I will make a point of listening to Alister McGrath whenever I am suffering with insomnia. Christopher Hitchens when I need to be awake, aware and motivated to start my day in the best possible mood.

[@2fast2block]

It's because you are so easily deceived and that's because you truly don't care about truth. You just pretend to. Hitch who pretends to know the bible as he screws up on it over and over again including what faith means biblically. --"Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated”-- Christopher Hitchens Now, look at what biblical faith really means that Hitch the dumbass didn't even look at: Biblically, faith means trust. It's a trust by evidence seen. God asks that we prove things. To reason. To get knowledge. To study. God has nothing to hide. We develop trust from what is seen, and that which is not seen yet is trusted also because of the trust built up from what is seen. It's much like a human relationship. We don't trust much until a person has gained that trust from what is observed. The difference is though, God is not limited to human powers. He created us. Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. crossexamined.org/biblical-faith-vs-blind-faith/ www.truthortradition.com/articles/what-does-the-bible-say-about-faith www.revisedenglishversion.com/Appendix/16/Faith_is_Trust www.truthortradition.com/articles/faith-a-confident-expectation-of-gods-promises-coming-to-pass www.truthortradition.com/articles/hebrews-1-11-and-faith Hitchens always went into evasive word farting to avoid key questions like how we got the creation of the universe. Real science says nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space, and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the fools resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We can't even get science without God. The laws of nature only can come from a Lawgiver, God. Only dingbats follow Hitchens.

[@ryand6003]

@@2fast2block Some choose to live as a slave and surrender reason and logic to absolve themselves from personal responsibility. But no worries, you can either worship your god for eternity or be tortured for infinite time, good luck with that!

[@twomicefighting]

@@2fast2block What's the difference between Science Fiction and Supernatural? Really confused here. Or, I could give you the answer you deserve, not being as eloquent as Hitch, it's basically; Fuck Off.

[@upadhyayrathiraj1518]

@@2fast2block Nobody has answered the question about the Virgin Birth and taking over the sin of others. Hitchens rightly questions how and why the Big Man choose the most illiterate, boorish and desert-dwelling people to "reveal" his thoughts? Why couldn't the God tell all that to the Chinese or Indians, who were much more evolved to understand things?

[@2fast2block]

@@ryand6003 ok, I understand, you couldn't get around what I gave so it was easier for you to let out your bowel gas instead.

[@counterculture10]

I mean just spectacularly brilliant! One of our best primates is Mr. Hitchens.

[@SenatorMaina2012]

Just brilliant Prof. Hitchens.

[@rariri1]

Brilliant devil worshiper. Do you want to follow him?

[@olly7248]

Christopher Hitchens remains amazing and relevant even though he has sadly passed away ❤️

[@margyrowland]

Too bad he didn’t embrace Jesus

[@Truth17John17]

"Amazing and relevant"..... considering he's a liar.....: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5a0d6yVbNikibs

[@Truth17John17]

"Dear God in Heaven, I've made a terrible mistake...." Christopher Hitchens final thought before passing away.....

[@marlow4388]

@@Truth17John17 ratio

[@D3nchanter]

@@margyrowland I don't believe even as he was dying he was ever that brain damaged.

[@davidsmith6859]

I think I can summarise this debate. Mr Hitchens: I heard great oratory. Mr McGrath: I heard a lot of words. There was a famous Morecambe and Wise sketch with the conductor Andre Previn. Eric is playing the piano, very badly. Andre Previn tells him he's playing the wrong notes. Eric replies he playing all the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order. I understood all the words Mr McGrath used, just not necessarily in that particular order. They made little sense to me.

[@trabob4438]

Hitchens was great and I love hearing him debate.

[@carmenmccauley585]

My hero until the end of time .. or I die. Whichever comes first .

[@LazyJack2003]

My hero. Died far too soon. Whenever I am asked whom I would have liked to have met in my life Hitchens comes up as first, second and third.

[@2fast2block]

It's because you're a shallow person too. Hitch who pretends to know the bible as he screws up on it over and over again including what faith means biblically. --"Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated”-- Christopher Hitchens Now, look at what biblical faith really means that Hitch the dumbass didn't even look at: Biblically, faith means trust. It's a trust by evidence seen. God asks that we prove things. To reason. To get knowledge. To study. God has nothing to hide. We develop trust from what is seen, and that which is not seen yet is trusted also because of the trust built up from what is seen. It's much like a human relationship. We don't trust much until a person has gained that trust from what is observed. The difference is though, God is not limited to human powers. He created us. Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. crossexamined.org/biblical-faith-vs-blind-faith/ www.truthortradition.com/articles/what-does-the-bible-say-about-faith www.revisedenglishversion.com/Appendix/16/Faith_is_Trust www.truthortradition.com/articles/faith-a-confident-expectation-of-gods-promises-coming-to-pass www.truthortradition.com/articles/hebrews-1-11-and-faith Hitchens always went into evasive word farting to avoid key questions like how we got the creation of the universe. Real science says nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space, and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the fools resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We can't even get science without God. The laws of nature only can come from a Lawgiver, God. Only dingbats follow Hitchens.

[@LazyJack2003]

@@2fast2block I guess there is no point in trying to explain to you the circularity of your argumention attempts, is there ? But anyway, thanks for your efforts. I was just a bit dismayed by you calling me a shallow person. Not very friendly for someone who claims to follow Jesus. But anyway. I forgive you . And now, after reading all that rubbish you wrote I have to cleanse myself by listening to some more Hitchens. Have a glorious day.

[@2fast2block]

@@LazyJack2003 "And now, after reading all that rubbish you wrote" And the details you gave of what I wrote on faith and creation are rubbish... (blank) Then you actually think you're not a shallow person is really funny stuff.

[@aaronpannell6401]

@@2fast2block if Faith is trust built on evidence seen, then it should be reproducible. No one has ever heard of Christianity until the far west of the middle east and the Europeans started spreading the words. If what you said is true then native Americans would have seen that Christ was the truth before Columbus made it to the America's. That is how we know your statement about faith is wrong, it's not based on evidence seen.

[@2fast2block]

@@aaronpannell6401 loser, you never got around anything I wrote, but that's what you losers are famous for.

[@creerbyrge]

Christopher Hitchens makes me wish for life after death, where i could meet him for a smoke and a drink.

[@smrd2d14]

Certainly there is a resurrection, then the infidels will curse each other. He will curse you and you will curse him forever.

[@nicolemajlat2768]

Yeees , may I join ?

[@Nicolau29]

I'm in this drink too ... 🍷 !

[@LucianoSantos-ic7li]

Great point!

[@pythondrink]

​@@smrd2d14 got any evidence for that?

[@atheistcomments]

I really would have liked to see the audience's reaction as Hitchens gave his opener.

[@Nothingprince]

Hitchens beautifully touches up on what the Greeks knew and what Freud codified: The father figure, savior who we must worship and never question

[@KanonHara]

1:16:09 Professor McGrath makes a truly outrageous point and the crowd cant help but laugh

[@kenichiotaku3693]

"swapped my faith in atheism" RED FLAG right there, he just spilled the beans on the fact that he doesn't understand atheism, therefore it is probable that he wasn't an atheist to begin with which in this context would make him into a liar. So the question still stands: If you need to lie in defense of your truth, how can you claim it is truth to begin with?

[@andykruskamp1939]

Well said!

[@MeeMee-gz5vp]

When religious people want to make their beliefs seem rational, they always say they were once 'this' and 'that,' depending on what will appeal to their audiences. It's all bs anyway.

[@kenichiotaku3693]

@@MeeMee-gz5vp That's quite the obvious pattern, isn't it? xD

[@andrewharper1609]

Lying for Jesus is nothing new, that's why Catholics added reference to Jesus into Josephus and they added text to the end of one of the Gospels. It's why they added the names of the apostles to anonymous texts.

[@prophettoatheists8057]

On what formal code of ethics do you appeal to distinguish what is truth and what is a lie? In relativism a lie can be your personal truth and you can change your "truth" at will!

[@adamjones345]

although a staunch christian and completely against the majority of his beliefs i have binged his videos ive never heard such an articulate and interesting human being

[@NA-yz2ek]

What a great debate. I typically scoff at Hitchen's opposition, but McGrath is perhaps the most eloquent and seemingly convincing of antagonists.

[@MsKariSmith]

Another brilliant talk by C. Hitchens. His logic and clear way of speaking is understandable to everyone .

[@commenterperson4481]

Not everyone, not the religious...

[@mysticwine]

Too bad he doesn't have clue about what he says.

[@SequenceKomplete]

@@mysticwine yawn… you keep popping up saying this but never ever EVER give an example of why he doesn’t know what he is talking about. So tedious.

[@mysticwine]

@@SequenceKomplete The examples are every negative word he mutters about religion. What frosts me is his ignorance as he positions himself as the final word that destroys religion. He knows nothing about religion, NOTHING. He has zero followers that will take up the torch for him and spread his word world wide. Most likely they are laughing at his nonsense.

[@sethpatrick]

@@mysticwine you are so brainwashed it makes me sad.

[@jakhaughton1800]

Hitchens was truly well read and able to debate with knowledge and a grasp of the facts. Religion has lots to answer for. Everyone has the right to a faith; but religion has abused this right because it’s man made.

[@VINODPATEL-mf2ky]

Only the Abrahamic religions are evil. Because they.orgornised creat discrimination like apartheid in the world.

[@lawrence1318]

Religion is man made, yes, but God is not man made.

[@robertdumicz7309]

You can't evade the empirical known facts, everything needs a source and a ultimate eternal source and cause, order requires an intelligent agent, fine tuning requires a highly skilled and intelligent creator, life require life to come out of, information in DNA and the language to read that information, both found in DNA, require a high intelligence and many known laws are violated by an Universe out of nothing with no cause and no creator. I may name them but l prefere to once more prove creation with scientific data and with quotes of secular scientists, meanwhile to kill your evil-ution-ism in another way, by falsifying the idea of an old Solar System and Universe with the aforementioned pieces of evidence and quotes, with other words to shot two rabbits with a bullet, figuratively writing. Let's begin with proving a young Solar System and creation with a sheer amount of scientific data discovered and received by mostly secular scientists in the last decades, so give a Yt search for; "What you aren't being told about astronomy vol.1" and then 2 and 3 for the Universe and its origins. There along with a sheer amount of data which falsify an old Solar System and big bang idea and reveal creation, you and anyone may read quotes of those secular scientists acknowledging their own ideas falsified by the data received, along with the references and the time stamps of those particular quotes to be able to double check them. Meanwhile creation is again proven true, this time here and for all of you. Also meanwhile evolution is falsified by revealing that the pretended millions and billions of years they claim would sufice that such process could happen, are actually missing from Earth's history. In the near future l might have the pleasure to falsify once more, directly this time, that idea which actually is already revealed to be evil-ution-ism. For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries. Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers

[@TerryMcGearyScotland]

The ‘right’ is still there, so long as it does impinge adversely on the rights or lives of others. The trouble starts when religious types don’t stop at being ‘offended’ by the words or harmless actions (holy book burning for example or cartoons of their revered bff) but start beating, shooting and bombing people about it. Why not just shrug, mutter “insensitive idiots” under their breaths and get over it.

[@sapereaudekpkishor4600]

God is a municipality creation

[@Greg-bw8ir]

I’m much more impressed with Alastair McGrath than I thought I would be... I don’t think anyone is going to actually ever going beat Christopher Hitchens in this topic...

[@deanpappas8388]

Wonderful! Georgetown did what it could to make me feel small as a student. And Alister McGrath does not answer anything Hitchens says, but fills the air with unconnected generalities that do not address any of the specifics about Christianity (or other religions). I don't have to repeat Hitchens arguments.

[@AzimuthTao]

"I'm not looking for consensus Baby... I'm just not in the mood". 1:10:16

[@gordonwroe3739]

This Alister guy loves to waffle.....

[@tony7830]

hitchens just has it, you could listen to him for hours.

[@robandrews4815]

What do you mean could listen to him for hours......I do and more people should.😍😍😍

[@stylis666]

@John Cenataur Aw... That's so sweet! I believe in you as well, even though you haven't a clue what damage you do by giving the example of believing in things you have no good reason to believe and not even have a reason to believe is possible and by giving the example you validate all beliefs, including but not limited to the belief that homosexual men should be killed if they ever dare to show and share their love physically with an enthusiastically consenting adult.

[@cthoadmin7458]

Yes, I fear there’s no one left of his stature, now he’s gone. Mesmerising, truely mesmerising.

[@studio-flash]

I do.

[@studio-flash]

@dan simple??? Hitchens was a monumental charismatic genius.

[@Hollis_wants_your_comments]

Christopher Hitchens, you are my lodestar. Mine and many, many more.

[@michaelwilliams7907]

This was BEYOND EXCELLENT. BRAVISSIMO. I’m a 70 yr old man getting ready to die. Was an Altar boy in RC church since 8. I hate religion all my life I’m some kind of righteous believer in being doing good. Nobody needs to tell me help me anything. I know left and right. ??? But I’m still on the fence here if god is a living loving father. My humanity wants to say no. My wanting needing better wants to say yes. ??? DO U SEE MY DELEMA HERE. ???

[@500midnightmary]

McGrath reminds me of Rowan Atkins when he is playing clergy in one of his comedy bits where he doesn't say anything that makes sense.

[@yannatoko9898]

*Atkinson.

[@jonathanrussell1140]

God the laughter-giver, Christ the comedian... It is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a camel to...

[@elizabethwagner2190]

I've listened to him for decades. Over and over. And will keep listening thanks to this awesome visual medium of the internet. Wonderous times.

[@robertbuckley3762]

I was just thinking that very thought a minute ago. Technology is great! I can download and study code, get code references, play with Arduino, when I don't know much about electronics. I learned how to fix my own seat belt from the internet! But then I thought, how many friends and families have torn themselves apart because of social media? Misinformation, mass media, aggressive and invasive marketing, fraud, theft etc, which is also wonderous in a way, but very damaging.

[@at6686]

It’s ironic that CH has achieved a kind of immortality thru technology like KZbin that religion can never provide.

[@elizabethwagner2190]

Christopher was a man who could have born in any time and place and captivated the people around him by his pure knowledge of the spoken word and knowing your facts. A gift to a world that usually doesn't like intellect in its purist form. Honestly and truth.

[@at6686]

@@elizabethwagner2190 A couple hundred years ago people would gather to hear talks and debates by various experts and authors on the topics of the day. It was the equivalent of watching documentaries or going to the movies. I can’t imagine what it must have been like to hear people like Thomas Paine or Lincoln or Frederick Douglass speak. Now we call each other names and insults on the internet. I’ve always thought of CH as a man of letters throw back to that time. He’ll mention someone like Spinoza who I have to look up and then realize I’m embarrassed to not know more about and he can quote him off the cuff. His breed is very rare and precious.

[@commenterperson4481]

You must have had a decades worth of wisdom and clarity... hope in humanity that at least there are sane people around

[@colemoore44]

“You have to see them as human and love them and be kind” Except when things they can’t control happen and cause them to have ANY different belief, happen to be gay, happen to be black, happen to have sex before marriage, marry someone with a different religion, etc etc etc

[@anaruiz6036]

Hitchens never boring. The world lost a great, logical, free thinking man.

[@drmontague6475]

I was a creationist, believed that there was an intelligent designer. I had a wet fart whilst walking around a shopping mall. I became a militant atheist.

[@nohandlemebruh]

@@drmontague6475 all it takes is one wet fart to see we aren't designed, and if we are designed, we definitely shouldn't worship the engineer

[@robertdumicz7309]

@@nohandlemebruh We brought death and decay beginning with Adam&Eve with our disobedience, issue which is still an issue today.

[@nohandlemebruh]

@@robertdumicz7309 so we brought wet farts into the world, and that's why we owe a pedo in a dress 10% of our wages. Got it.

[@robertdumicz7309]

@@nohandlemebruh What your pope is doing isn't my concern. I don't belong to his institution which seem to be fallen from Christ.

[@inthevault9603]

What is it when Hitchens speaks it goes by so fast but when the other guy speaks it ends up to be excruciatingly painful? If you don’t mind I’ll answer my own question. It’s because Hitch is just that kick ass. You’re welcome. 😂

[@jeffmcginnis3882]

Agreed, but we still listen to both talkers...sometimes having an open-mind has its downfalls.

[@lyndapierson6338]

2 shay

[@charliemorris2338]

One is telling the truth and one is lying.........

[@timgomolka644]

Because the other bloke is ultimately saying nothing.

[@adrianjanssens7116]

Since this is normally the case with these lengthy videos debating the validity of religion, I listen to the opponent just enough to catch their drift and then click further to when Hitchens speaks again. I do not wish to be converted, but do wish to be reminded of why I now no longer believe. I am better off in all aspects of my life as a result.

[@vpjshankar]

Hitchens! Hitchens!! Hitchens!!! The ease with which he unfolded the steps of debunking!!!! What a strength

[@paultimson6674]

God will resurrect him at the rapture and Hitchens will have egg on his face at that point.

[@MeganVictoriaKearns]

​@@paultimson6674😂😂😂 ok, buddy. I'll just add this to my list of mean-spirited insults wielded by morally superior Christians.

[@paultimson6674]

​@@MeganVictoriaKearns nope, we are not MORALLY Superior? you are not JUDGED BY GOD. You are judged by yourself. you are the one who is moral? you obey LAWS. i do not have to obey any law? i do not have to be 'good' - I took a free pardon from GOD. he takes all my sins. and trashes them. Its YOU who values sin. you give it weight. you hold onto all your filth. as if its a keepsake. we move one. we do not look behind at our lives. if i want to do anything sinful? i can do it. I'm a son of the father. But why would i do it? maybe i'm an addict? or need to steal food? God understands being human. what he will not do is ENDORSE EVIL. YOU ENDORSE IT. You say you like the Law? morals? and playing a legal game? we are past all that. we leave that to convict other people. we cannot be convicted by God. We have a PARDON. i can do as i wish. YOU THOUGH ARE STILL UNDER THE LAW. God waits until you see him. The tribulation. then you choose what side you want to be on. God's side. or SATAN. the WORLD. if you choose Satan, he gives you a MARK. O. oo. Ouroboros. and asks you to swear allegiance. then you can have money, power, women, whatever you like. FOOD. Employment. a future on earth. Under his control. The g7 nations. His leader. you obey authority and LAW and ORDER. you speak an oath. take a mark. you have judged yourself. you endorse eternal evil.

[@jonathanrussell1140]

​@@paultimson6674 The devil has all those fire-pits at his disposal, and he chooses to throw eggs?? Religion is bs. Get over yourself.

[@rollingreller6346]

I could watch this over and over. Hitch’ brilliant approach is unrelenting and unapologetic. Miss his wisdom and wit every day. He’s left a prolific and diverse body of work. Thankfully.

[@2fast2block]

Hey tiny brain, Hitch didn't follow evidence and you don't either. The 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. It is clear creation had to be done supernaturally at some point yet it is still denied because people are just too proud to accept that, among other things.

[@rigelmoon9030]

Christopher Hitchens speak so eloquently. I've listened to his debates with earnest. I never tire of him; and, hang on each word. If it wasn't for him, I'd still be wallowing in christianity uncertain of everything that stood to reason. Religion is holding back our positive evolution as a species. Humans have suffered immeasureably because of religion. More humans have died in the names of gods than for any other reason.

[@rigelmoon9030]

@@jdowns7636. How do ya know?

[@Yosef9438]

@@jdowns7636. The astounding ego it must take to claim to know the will of the creator of a universe. I don't believe in it, but you clearly do.

[@Truth17John17]

@@rigelmoon9030 To answer your question to J Downs, I can say that my Lord and Savior has always been faithful to me. Our Creator has never broken a single promise in all of my 65 years. But like everyone else, you are entitled to your opinion.

[@rigelmoon9030]

@@Truth17John17 What promise has "our creator" ever made? Did he speak to you personally? At least Hitchens used his own speech centers and recorded it for posterity. Religion is all mythology. Let me ask you. Of the 11,000 or so religions the human species has believed in throughout history, which ones have been proven to be real? And, remember. Faith and belief are not evidence.

[@JM-ot8ux]

@@rigelmoon9030 It's a repeated mantra: God keeps His promises. If you're so impolite as to ask, "What promises?" they come down to, um, like, He will never leave you, He will always be with you, His word will last forever, His kingdom is not of this earth, He has prepared a place for you in Heaven (some conditions apply), He will comfort you, He will give you strength. Vague feely stuff. But "keeps His promises" is the stuff of sermons, evangelizing, and most especially contemporary Christian music. They also sing refrains that trumpet, "You kept every single promise to me," but they also never specify. That would be questioning _God._

[@jaredgriffiths1361]

Maybe i'm missing something, but despite trying to have an open mind for his point of view, McGrath seems to base his entire argument on the basis that Jesus existed, was divine and behaved in a certain way, eg. without violence, but where is the evidence that Jesus 1. actually existed, and 2. that if Jesus existed, what evidence is there that he was in some way divine or super natural or in any way superior morally to anyone or anything else? It still seems belief first, then try and fix the logic, whereas Hitch always works towards 'look at the evidence, analyze objectively, infer only what is possible and reasonable'. Hard to argue with.

[@davidblack2970]

I keep hoping that one of these bozos is going to concede that there is no evidence of God. And go on to list all of the reasons that we should act as if there were a God anyway. They probably still wouldn't convince me, but I'd hear them out with an open mind.

[@stevo2992]

Jesus-But you have to believe in me and what i say because - - - - - - - umm, well, my mum never went to bed with anyone, so there!

[@prophettoatheists8057]

Do you accept that the Jews existed and have a long historical record of more than 2 thousand years?

[@ayindemurphy5243]

@lary Snw Those writings refer only to the existence of Christianity and the existence of Christian claims. Even if we accept that Tacitus was referring to an actual Jesus existing and being crucified he says NOTHING about a resurrection of Jesus nor does he discuss the supposed resurrection of "many saints" on that same day who walked around Jerusalem talking to people according to one of the gospels. In any case there are ZERO CONTEMPORARY sources and even those sources from within a century or so speak only to the existence of BELIEF. Well the belief of ancient Egyptians in the existence of Horus, Osiris and Isis is FAR from being PROOF that they do or did exist. It is also possible that Socrates and Plato never existed. Furthermore that the Romans executed a Jewish guy in the rebellious province of Palestine during the 1st century C.E. is about as mundane a claim as it is possible to make. It's almost like saying that there were cowboys who rode horses in Texas in the late 1800s. That much was ROUTINE. And the name Yeshua was as common in Jewish men back then as John Smith is here in America today. I hope you have more evidence than that.

[@ayindemurphy5243]

@lary Snw that doesn't prove that he chose not to mention it it just proves that he did not mention it. You should watch a video by non-stamp collector it's called quiz show Bible contradictions

[@conflictdiamonds]

I think this was the best debate Hitchens ever took part in on the subject of religion. Mr McGrath is eloquent, intelligent and unlike most of his fellow believers is not scared of admitting to the faults of faith.

[@phssthpok5075]

"I'm not looking for consensus, baby." 😂

[@iXpress]

My favorite public speaker, first saw his videos in 2013.

[@Luke-kj1rj]

Its such a shame hitchens died at a young age, what a man

[@lynettekomidar2819]

Very sad indeed

[@pfflyer3381]

Be glad we had him.and will always be out there.

[@papachis9535]

The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

[@EdwardHowton]

@@papachis9535 He also burned a lot of cigarettes and also his own liver with all the booze, which was pretty stupid. But then, he probably thought much the same way I do: what matters is quality of life, not quantity. Still, you wish he would never have picked up the filthy habits so we could still have him around today. He would've cut through all the bullshit like a scalpel tied to a sledgehammer. It's important to remember not to turn the guy into a saint. That's more the style of the fuckwits that got Hitchslapped.

[@jeremybumpermanpub7144]

Yep. Contrary to his views on religiosity and the human condition, I do think he’ll live forever. But, yeah it is really sad. Pseudo-intellectuals have scurried for high places. He really was a true intellectual.

[@johnnybickle4116]

Hitch,,,, The first time I ever heard the man speak I literally stood up and cheered

[@tanseygreen]

People are so terrified of dying they've forgotten how to live

[@marketads1]

Every time I find a video of Hitch that I hadn't seen before, I fall in love all over again. It's not his good looks, even through his cancer that pained me so and took away his celebrity good looks, what causes me to love him is always there. His desire to share his deeply held and researched intellect with others that he uses like no other. With a combination like no one else: sophisticated and worldly wit, deep intellect, research, thoughtful philosophical stands and cultural experiences across the planet that exposed him to humankind like no other of his sorry, dry, boring repetitive debaters. Take down another Robert E. Lee statue and give one to Hitch!

[@2fast2block]

Come on, be honest, you're a loser who is attracted to other losers like Hitch. Hitch who pretends to know the bible as he screws up on it over and over again including what faith means biblically. --"Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated”-- Christopher Hitchens Now, look at what biblical faith really means that Hitch the liar didn't even look at: Biblically, faith means trust. It's a trust by evidence seen. God asks that we prove things. To reason. To get knowledge. To study. God has nothing to hide. We develop trust from what is seen, and that which is not seen yet is trusted also because of the trust built up from what is seen. It's much like a human relationship. We don't trust much until a person has gained that trust from what is observed. The difference is though, God is not limited to human powers. He created us. Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. crossexamined.org/biblical-faith-vs-blind-faith/ www.truthortradition.com/articles/what-does-the-bible-say-about-faith www.revisedenglishversion.com/Appendix/16/Faith_is_Trust www.truthortradition.com/articles/faith-a-confident-expectation-of-gods-promises-coming-to-pass www.truthortradition.com/articles/hebrews-1-11-and-faith Hitchens always went into evasive word antics to avoid key questions like how we got the creation of the universe. Real science says nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space, and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the fools resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We can't even get science without God. The laws of nature only can come from a Lawgiver, God. Only shallow people follow Hitchens.

[@MrAnthonyVance]

I so agree with you Zoya. I miss Hitch!

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Did you ever ask yourself why some people are born crippled in a refugee camp and others in Beverly Hills? It is because the one born crippled maybe raped his daughter or tortured people in some prison. Reincarnation allows life to make sense, nothing else can.

[@robertdumicz7309]

@@jeffforsythe9514 Since you ignore the afterlife and the kingdom of God, your brain is stucked in a nonsense.

[@joeanthony7759]

@@robertdumicz7309 both of your heads are stuck in nonsense….little wonder the world in such a state with the majority of humans holding beliefs like these. And our beliefs inform our actions.

[@drfunk444]

I listened to McGrath for as long as I could and he didn't really say anything

[@gordonbradley3241]

Still trying to work out anything he actually said ? Ferociously intelligent ? Thick as mince !

[@upadhyayrathiraj1518]

He did say "blah ..blah ..blah"!

[@bb21again.67]

McGrath says "I think,I think, I think,I think" then claims he knows.

[@FRM101]

Just once I wish one of these would open as follows: "Hello, I'm so and so, of so and so university, and because not one of you have the slightest interest in hearing from me, I give you, Christopher Hitchens."

[@maboleth]

People talk about intellect of Hitchens. While no doubt he had plenty, what he also had, what 8 out of 10 in population lacks (sorry to say) is huge pair of balls and consistency. It's one thing to privately think like Hitchens, it's totally another to actually go there, write books, give speeches to the world that is completely the opposite of you and want to crush you with your 'blasphemous' beliefs and thinking. You not only have to prove your theories to the most twisted and highly intelligent fanatics and scholars, you have to be consistent in your work as well. So hats off to you sir. Even when you were looking at your death, you did it with dignity and courage, never for a millimeter went astray from what you believed in.

[@victoriagolmehdi8506]

"The suspiciously terse" and most "recent introduction". How I wish that there were more of these debates.

[@Richard-hv5hh]

"The family values of Henry V111"...."The chinless Dauphin"..." a celestial North Korea"..."half a chromosome from a chimpanzee".." Mr Jefferson tear down that wall"..." No childs behind left"... He was wonderful in debate and I guess the fact that he repeated himself was unavoidable. I did think some of his jokes were not very funny but I was a huge fan and emailed him when he was ill just to fulfill my need to say how much I appreciated him tegatdless of whether it reached him.

[@shawnhierlihy3690]

This proponent of Christianity couldn't convince me to go to bed if I was tired let alone buy into his preposterous philosophy.

[@richardverrall534]

Indeed. Talk about "white noise".Just opaque verbiage devoid of any real meaning.

[@peppaz]

Not a single clue as to what the hell McGrath was talking about the whole time

[@2fast2block]

@@richardverrall534 gee, you passed my comment right up. Very wimpy of your dumb ass.

[@candeffect]

Okay. God is obviously not preventing you from choosing to live to ensure your trashed eternity.

[@brianlaroche8856]

The old "magi" delutional conmen or charlatan priests in cohoots with the psycho gang kings or armies or tribal gangs of the era in time, pedaled this ideas to any minion that happen to stay alive (usualy girls) after the slaughter by force and death, now they are viewed as religions of peace, the truth the light the righ way.....and receive billions in donations and squeeze trillions out of taxation to live like in a conman's wet deram as a human Leach.... unreal horror comics

[@jenna2431]

Hitch comin' in hot. RIP, you are so missed.

[@counterculture10]

So missed.

[@sharpjwe]

Thanks to Christopher For is perfectly wise discours

[@paddywhack9261]

The mental pretzel-bending involved in religion justifies anything done in its name. Religion made me an atheist, and started as a student in the early 1960s... at Georgetown, and solidified during 1968-69 in the Mekong Delta.

[@capitalb5889]

You've been lucky to live such s long live free of religion.

[@2fast2block]

"Religion made me an atheist" No, you being stu-pid made YOU decide to be a F00L atheist. Clown, the universe can't come about by natural means. Give me a laugh though how you got past that.

[@jamiejenkins9096]

@@2fast2block bro stop commenting on every comment with your bullshit. And the universe may have come from nothing. The point is we don’t know. At least we don’t say some magical sky man made it and if someone calls him by a different name then they are also wronf

[@christheghostwriter]

@@2fast2block who says the universe can't come about by natural means?

[@2fast2block]

@@jamiejenkins9096 "bro stop commenting on every comment with your bullshit." Oh, and here's your detailed evidence that got around what I wrote to prove it is BS... (blank) "And the universe may have come from nothing." Followed by your evidence of... (blank) "The point is we don’t know." Ok, loser you ignores all we know and simply says we don't know and that's how you know. We know you're a loser and it is so easy to show that.