The God Emperor's Golden Path Explained | Dune Lore

A discussion of the scope and established lore of the Golden Path and how the beings who are able to see it are affected by the weight of this future. SPOILER ALERT as I discuss details from events that occur after the events of Dune regarding the Golden Path from Paul Atreides to the God Emperor Leto II.
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[@ScaryBaldMan]

The key to understanding Leto II and his Golden Path was in his defining himself as a predator. Leto kept the entire human universe trapped, and he preyed upon those elements he sought to eliminate, thus forcing the survivors to adapt and evolve - as most prey do over time - to overcome and escape the predator. Leto knew the ultimate predator was prescience itself and its ability to bind all of humankind into a common trap. Thus he forced humanity to evolve in ways to escape from himself and prescience. Herbert's design of it was masterful, and you do a wonderful job in describing it. Great video.

[@fumarc4501]

As masterful as it was monstrous. An abject lesson and bed time story to scare small children for millennia to come.

[@draxthemsklonst]

"Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit." - 21 Pilots, Heavy Dirty Soul

[@di3486]

Co-rrect

[@General_reader]

Couldn’t have said it better myself

[@joebailey3330]

Well said

[@ninjabreadman8166]

*“If you handed one of them the complete scenario of his life, the unvarying dialogue up to his moment of death -what a hellish gift that’d be. A universe of surprises is what I pray for!”*

[@perceivedvelocity9914]

Paul could not accept the Golden Path. He fought against it. Leto could not turn away from it. The path took a heavy toll on both Paul and Leto.

[@GFlight.916]

Leto II sacrificed his humanity, and was labeled a tyrant, all for the sake of the golden path. Leto's Sacrifice.

[@perceivedvelocity9914]

@@GFlight.916 100% correct

[@JeffCaplan313]

"For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believed in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." 🤭

[@Triangletox]

Didn’t Paul turn into a dessert prophet in later books. And he and Leto II discuss the golden path?

[@the_armada5579]

@@Triangletox that comes in Children of Dune, before Leto II becomes the God Emperor. Thr discussion they have is incredible

[@carloscrecelius9597]

Being born with other memory, Leto ll had a view of history that no one, not even Paul, could see. No one, except perhaps Duncan Idaho, ever sacrificed so much for humanity. He and Duncan were the true "Heroes of Dune".

[@fumarc4501]

I find Duncan more relatable, while I both respect and hate Leto II.

[@jurgertmarkaj7933]

If you knew the whole story behind the books you would know that Duncan plays the most important role in the entire series. A ghola of Duncan to be exact(but moreover the same being).

[@michaelcastro5339]

@@jurgertmarkaj7933 The ghola's are basically a way to re-incarnate the person, you could only have 1 ghola of a person at time, it was a way to train a person for thousands of years while giving them a limited life span. Duncan is a Ghola of a Ghola, for tens of generations the final goal that Leto wanted.

[@jurgertmarkaj7933]

@@michaelcastro5339 Yeah for sure that what it comes down to in the end.Leto II really did forsaw everything and put the pieces as it should even after his death.

[@JamesPawson]

Reading the Dune books so many times as a kid and teen is surely what set me on the path to get a MA in philosophy. There are many long passages especially in the latter books, that should make Herbert rank right up there with Heidegger and Wittgenstein.

[@KevTheImpaler]

The Golden Path sounds like a revolutionary organisation.

[@skoomamuch356]

Cough *far cry 4* cough

[@AynenMakino]

I'm a bit late to the comments, but whatevs... The golden path is absolutely key in why I enjoy the series so much. The very notion that two prescient beings can know of the path and one rejects it while the other embraces it leads to an endlessly fascinating collision of views. Not to mention that Leto II has SO much time to change his mind on how to proceed, and is met with so many intellects that can spar with him over the matter.

[@waltsears]

It’s an interesting idea that a tyrannical ruler would control and (one would think) oppress humanity in order to teach them how to resist such domination. I wonder if that actually works. It certainly sounds like a convenient excuse for every despotic dictator. “Yeah, I’m not really like this, but I had to teach you how to avoid leaders who act like this, okay?” Like I said, interesting. Anyway, thanks for the knowledge!

[@BimboBaggings]

I think its just the same as natural disasters and diseases that push humans out of their comfort zone and be forced to evolve. I believe that certain dictators or tyrants in our own history can be seen as a natural disaster or a disease, whether they are being that way on purpose or not, the outcome is usually progressive.

[@eugeneflores6153]

I think it's just the way for a hardcore grooming or molding the citizens

[@XShadowzVarcolac]

i think the difference between leto's dictatorship and real life dictatorship is that he doesn't seem to try to truly control the human mind. He's not brain washing the masses to become more obedient slaves with each generation like what the soviets and nazis among many others have done. Unlike other dictators, he is the only dictator fictional or not that actively wants his people to rebel against him no matter how many times they were put down until eventually one attempt succeeded.

[@honurapanui]

Well, several ex-soviet countries banned the communist party. So I think it works.

[@SerginhoPMoura]

the problem with his logic is that we really don't know if without his interference mankind would have truly gone extinct and we could only survive because of his actions.

[@gszd55]

Herbert left humanity a great gift in the Dune stories

[@MatthewTheWanderer]

He was extremely imaginative!

[@rpl4999]

Been looking at a lot of videos of the dune universe ever since I saw the movie . There are many content creators who give excellent information, but you are by far my favorite. Keep up the great work! Love the narration !

[@marknovak6498]

The golden path always seemed both optimistic and precarious. It required one person to do all the right things for thousands of years. Frank Herbert took the most optimistic through the bleakest of options in the world he built.

[@emptyblank099a]

None of it is optimistic. Billions on billions of deaths is not good.

[@marknovak6498]

@@emptyblank099a It is optimistic in terms of the fact it was the only option he saw where humanity continues to exist at all.

[@thedubstepaddict3675]

@@marknovak6498 if all of this suffering and death is necessary why is it a good thing that humanity even continues to survive

[@marknovak6498]

@@thedubstepaddict3675 Why are you trolling me this way. Are we supposed to celebrate the extinction of humanity?

[@applesandgrapesfordinner4626]

@@thedubstepaddict3675 Star Trek had a similar concept were WW3 that precided the Federation was a key aspect to its founding. One argument to why the Federation doesn't get involved in lesser civilizations is for this reasons: Allow hardships so that the civilization eventually grows to have a closer understanding of their world. Of course, this subject is pretty debatable.

[@arisakathedappergoose4796]

I always say the anxiety and stress that Paul's father as having was due to him seeing this inevitable end of humanity, and wanting to take responsibility to end it. The Scifi mini-series does a good god of showing this.

[@MemoryTroll]

Great job, Elaine! Really cool stuff!

[@mikemaoudj4397]

This was another incredible video Elaine ❤️❤️ your knowledge and understanding of this series coupled with your creativity make for amazing content

[@peterhann9748]

This video made me think a a lot. Stagnation vs chaos. I never liked the absolute "there is only one path" idea, but it certainly interesting to discuss. Thanks Elaine for another great addition.

[@thomasboyles9773]

I like to think of it more the way it was laid out in prior videos, a notion that choosing the other paths feels worse to the KH. It isn't that there aren't other paths. It's that any other choice makes the path less optimal.

[@khankrum1]

Don't you think humanity is already a long way on the road to stagnation?

[@LordHades800BC]

“Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.” ― John Milton, Paradise Lost

[@billylyons7212]

I prefer this definition of the golden path. "The Golden Path ("Secher Nbiw" in an ancient language) was an expansive prescient interpretation that was only visible to the Kwisatz Haderach and the Bene Gesserit. It foretold the fluid events of the future, both great and small. More profoundly, however, it revealed an optimum path through the countless threads of cause and effect that were encountered by the human race."

[@OdintheGermanShepherd]

What an amazing story.

[@MiroslavHundak]

This is an excellent video. Pretty much everything is on point and in line with how I understood the Dune saga.

[@johndevillier2852]

A lessons their bones would remember, great video as always!!🖖🏽

[@Jared_Wignall]

These Dune videos are always interesting. Keep up the great work guys!

[@SoulAbundanceIQ]

Thank you for these great videos!! I'm waiting to reread (listen to) the books until it gets a little closer to coming out. Really enjoying these videos until then!

[@allisonfisher9304]

Love listening to these videos, keep up the good work!!🙌🙌🙌

[@felipebrito4656]

Loved your explanation! The Golden Path is my favorite part of Dune.

[@anydaynow01]

Great video on the Golden Path, after this reminded me of the depth of the story behind Leto II I really hope Denis is allowed to continue with the Dune story in more movies or a streaming series since Leto II is to Paul as Paul is to Leto I, the rabbit hole runs deep the further down the line we go! A little off topic but I hope that NC brings out a video about the possibilities of Omega's future in the Bad Batch, for some reason I see her being a really important figure in a sequel era streaming series like Mando and Ahsoka.

[@AdjustingLight]

Star wars sucks now

[@shanenolan8252]

Thanks guys, no notification from KZbin, , great subject I was listening to the children of dune golden path dream last night.

[@unx4xgiven]

Brilliant summary of what the golden path was meant to achieve!

[@StsFiveOneLima]

Excellent. Thank you. Have been looking for an easy way to explain this to non-readers...

[@CheeZbredDawG]

I can’t believe I’m just hearing about this series in 2021. Definitely jumping into this world ASAP!

[@s.p.oneill4010]

Always a nice job done...

[@genmaicha.lapsang]

Awesome video. I think that Leto is one of the more interesting characters in sci-fi.

[@thomasboyles9773]

The lessons Leto II impart and implant remind me of the way a parent will allow a child to touch a stove top, just to understand why their warnings are to be heeded. "I told you not to do it. I told you it would hurt."

[@unx4xgiven]

The entire God emperor was like a dialogue between a parent and know it all kids whining and complaining that their dad was mean lol. He always knew the what's and why's to his motives but no one could see it. They just did what they wanted.

[@thedubstepaddict3675]

I completely disagree. Leto II was the dad who thought he had to force his children to watch their dog get euthanized to harden them, but who in turn never thought to stop and ask them about if they would be okay.

[@thomasboyles9773]

@@thedubstepaddict3675 He didn't care if they would be okay. He cared only to force them to develop a version of humanity which could never be stamped out.

[@thedubstepaddict3675]

@@thomasboyles9773 exactly. Thats a terrible fucking thing. What is continued survival worth if its pure suffering?

[@thomasboyles9773]

@@thedubstepaddict3675 Well, that's exactly the difference between Paul and Leto II. Paul was disgusted by it, Leto II saw it as a necessary evil. What are you arguing? That Leto II should have been kinder? That isn't the point of him. He is to humanity what a pressure cooker is to explosives. And he is with intent. To a being who sees all things past, present, and a wealth of possible future, choosing to sacrifice the now of humanity for eternity unbound is not a question. It is not a good to Leto II. It is what must be.

[@stevespain6445]

The Golden Path is the ultimate Bene Gesserit-style "Lesson."

[@robertsosna3557]

Would like to see more about the effect of Leto II's Golden Path. Particularly as described in Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse Dune. Hadn't realized it was hinted at as early as the first novel until you pointed it out. Thanks for the heads up. I will be paying closer attention to it on my next reread of the saga.

[@carloscrecelius9597]

Dune is probably the most enjoyable and rewarding book to re-read. You always find something new, something you overlooked in previous readings. I've read it 3 times and every time I'm shocked by something I overlooked before.

[@robertsosna3557]

@@carloscrecelius9597 I know what you are talking about! I've reread the series literally a dozen times and each time I either learn something new or am reminded of something that I had forgotten from my previous rereading. It's always good to have a saga that continues to challenge me forty years after I read the first novel.

[@carloscrecelius9597]

@@robertsosna3557 "Plots within plots within plots." Dune is one intricate stories ever written, to the point that half the people I know either just didn't get it or completely missed what Herbert was trying to do. How many people do you know who still think Muad-dib was the hero, or that it was about giant worms that ruled a desert planet? I don't know how he managed to incorporate so many concepts in one story,but I have little doubt that at some point I'll read it again. And if you haven't read it yet, I recommend Stephen R Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series, weird and disturbing in all the right ways.

[@robertsosna3557]

@@carloscrecelius9597 Read the first two trilogies. Haven't read the final chronicles yet. As I I have a long reading list. And currently reading the Great Houses trilogy by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson

[@carloscrecelius9597]

@@robertsosna3557 enjoy the journey, my friend. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the last Covenant story arc, no one I know really reads anymore.

[@beberivera7011]

I look forward to an analysis of Ghanima.

[@meli7408]

I just spoiled myself a lot... but that made me only more excited to see this! This is just amazing! So deep, so mind blowing ! I need to see it and to read it!

[@jacobnavarro3675]

The failure of the Star Wars sequel trilogy has set a very interesting stage for Dune. It feels like there's no better time for a fresh yet iconic franchise to arise and finally show Disney what organic fandom looks like, as opposed to the manufactured hype from their ceaseless regurgitating Star Wars machine. It's also very exciting because this isn't some brand new IP with shaky giraffe-legs that are easily "mortal-kombat-leg-sweeped" by Disney. Dune is partially responsible for Star Wars even existing. It has a long-running fan following that has been waiting to see the source material faithfully adapted to the screen for decades. With how badly the writing of the last 3 Star Wars films was received, all Dune needs to do is simply tell a competent story. I don't think Dune will necessarily overshadow Star Wars but I think the days of a singular franchise of fantasy films resting comfortably at the top of the Science Fiction genre are numbered.

[@lnunya5873]

I truly have high hopes for this new Dune. However, I feel it necessary to temper that hope with the understanding of toxic fandoms. "If it isn't 'right' it isn't good" is a dangerously myopic view of often treasured memories. I love all the dune books, even the "expanded universe" but I feel even that label of "EU" is a tragic dismissal of often brilliant and lovingly crafted writing. I hope this new adaptation lives up to expectation but moreover hope the fans appreciate it for what it is.

[@TheUruse]

Charming leader, be careful Tyrant, okay cool

[@David-jl1pk]

I will teach them a lesson that they will remember in their bones. The golden path explained in thirteen words.

[@shanenolan8252]

I thanks nick and elaine. I do find it very interesting for a sci fi story in the future with a human race government and a United people and religious system like most people think sounds like a good idea , the star trek mentality , but here Hubert shows it would be disastrous long term , the goal is to divide humanity and never allow a single man or government or religion, that differences and actual diversity and conflict are separate or national or different cultures is the best for the species and colonisation. You never hear anyone in books or entertainment say what herbert says it makes it very unique as a series .

[@nickthepostpunk5766]

A great video, but I do have a question: what were the reasons Leto chose to evolve towards becoming a sand worm?

[@Brainfryde]

Linking the Jihad of Paul to the Golden path is a common mistake. Paul accepted the Jihad and his inevitable rulership, it is the Golden Path he always rejected from the start. Paul ultimately tries to convert the warriors of Arrakis to reject Leto II and reject the Golden Path he was bringing about. Leto the II certainly had a pretty good idea of how he would die, but he talks about how seeing the future was about looking at people or specific locations. With every assassin he could see, he would defeat the plan, but he never looked directly at his death to find clues as to who killed him. He set up this logic problem to trigger the end of the Golden Path, as a person who was not contained within prescience would be the evolution of humanity to always evolve. He also believed that 3000+ years of oppression would drive humanities need to expand and explore to a genetic level, becoming such a strong drive, the scattering would be second only to the needs of food and reproduction. I did not find it clear if the prescience immunity was ever part of "the Golden Path," but it was certainly part of Leto II's plan, if only within his own family line. There is so much wiggle room and inference needed on this topic though, it is hard to say any one given interpretation is "right." I definitely think this summary from Elaine is brilliant for the non-reader :)

[@anydaynow01]

It's kind of crazy to think that 3k years ago is when our recorded history and rise out of being predominantly hunter gathers really began, and to think about how far we have developed as a result. I would really like to read papers detailing how human dna has evolved in the interim and contrast them to Herbert's writings.

[@i.quadmegistus5768]

When did Paul try to convert anybody to reject Leto II and/or the Golden Path?

[@andrewa9064]

Paul accepted the Jihad as retribution for the death of baby Leto. While Paul didn't want to follow the Golden Path he wanted his child to make that choice. The whole purpose of Messiah was to make the Fremen completely loyal to the Atreides and limit the powers of the Guild and Bene Gesserit

[@theresag.1000]

As much as I admire people who are able to make hard choices and play the long game in order to do the most good for the greatest number, The Golden Path mentality still strikes me as very Machiavellian. And that almost never ends well.

[@jonjones5092]

I think it's quite compelling to read God Emperor of Dune as essentially biased by Leto's perspective. Leto himself notes his psyche survived because of an internal pharonic model, and he later projects this idea on the human universe, thinking humanity's base instinct to cling to the pharaoh must be deliberately broken. While it seems we're meant to take this as internally true, you aren't supposed to depend on the charismatic leader! If Leto is allowed his own prejudice towards central leadership, and human feelings toward it, he is no less interesting and perhaps more.

[@thedubstepaddict3675]

I allways thought it was a great almost satirical play on how authority justifies itself on nothing but itself. Leto II held onto the golden path as an eternal tyrant to ensure his goal being met without ever considering the consent of those the path would impact. He was so focused on that he thought he had to, and seemingly never stopped to ask others if he should.

[@countpythagoras]

@@thedubstepaddict3675 we are talking about the survival of the species here. Via prescience the golden path was the only way to survive. Ask them if they wanted to suffer for generations so that people tens of thousands of years in the future survive? Like asking an 80 year old to make sacrifices so that your children will have a future. Of course most of them won't care because they will be dead and the timescale is so large it boarders the incomprehensible.

[@haarp35117]

Are the means worth the ends? Duke “screw that mess” Leto 2 “I guess I’ll do it”

[@BrandonGiordano]

My issue with calling Leto ii a hero for what he did is that it sounds like something an abuser would say. Like "I didn't want to hit you, but you wouldn't listen. You made me do it" something along those lines

[@omarfarouk4806]

He could see into the future and he chose the only path that saved the human race He did it entirely out of necessity

[@martialarts2475]

Was the bene gesserit responsible for the stagnation that leto the second fought against? After all I would think that in order to develop a kwisatz haderach they would need total control over the human race

[@sminkycorp]

Manual of Muad'Dib by Nerd Cookies

[@GFlight.916]

Imagine being so free from fate that your movement was forever unforeseeable.

[@intlvoiceofreason9239]

Prescience be gone!

[@sorokahdeen]

Thought-provoking as always but at the same time, hard to comment on intelligently given my limitations. As a first-novel-only purist, many of the details of what you comment on are beyond my reach, but there is something to be said about the main inner idea of Paul's prescience's leading to his being part of finding a solution to the problem of avoiding an unacceptable future where humanity's stagnation leads to eventual extinction of the race. That Herbert could successfully incorporate the idea into a science-fiction novel is as sweeping as it is staggering (George R.R., eat your heart out) but, at the same time, it is understandable. Historically speaking, agrarian Feudalism which appears over and over in history and across cultures as a natural consequence of agriculture, is remarkably stable but it is also a trap that freezes populations into hereditary castes, stifling innovation, and limiting opportunities for change as hereditary nobilities work to hold onto perquisites (power and wealth without work); which can only be maintained by sitting atop population-bases that are divided into classes (Sparta: warriors vs Helots. Japan under the Tokugawas: Poor samurai vs rich merchants). In this situation, exceptional individuals are born who may never have the opportunity of advancing humanity's interests either through social/technological innovation (how many musical geniuses born to peasants never saw a violin or a piano?), or genetically by the intermingling of different gene-pools. Again and again, history has judged feudal systems to be rotten affairs that retard growth and change, and that are susceptible to damage by changes for which they cannot prepare in the form of natural disasters or from within (the slow decline of the Ottoman empire as its court was slowly taken over by its own slaves and Europe outstripped it both politically and technologically). That Herbert's scope allowed him to make this idea a major inner part of his narrative is breathtakingly intelligent, a thing that is all the more powerful when you consider that it is woven into the story as a source of agony for Paul bears the burden of knowing that a war to sweep away the established order will carry a staggering death-toll in much the same way that the First World War ended or made irrelevant two millenia of European monarchy at a cost of more than ten million lives. Things like this really make you wish that Herbert was still alive so that one could ask him questions. A small thing... The Dune Wiki page on everyone's favorite worm-poo, refers to the substance as, "The Spice Melange," and this seems idiomatically problematic because both parts of the name refer to the same thing; making it sound as oddly as "Hydrogen Water" would sound. The author of the entry himself quotes a passage from Dune Messiah that appears to make the distinction clear when he writes: "In Dune Messiah it is stated that Guild Navigator Edric "swam in a container of orange gas ... His tank's vents emitted a pale orange cloud rich with the smell of the geriatric spice, melange." The presence of the comma offsetting the words in the source material implies that the two words are not part of a single compound noun. Does this make sense?

[@Psyrus88]

Thank you for the clarification. My only exposure to this series so far has been David Lynch's film rendition of the book. I am however looking forward to reading the entire series.

[@perceivedvelocity9914]

I started with David Lynch's film. It was the only Dune that I knew for years. It's probably not shocking but I feel that Frank Herbert's book is greatly superior to the film. I will admit that I see the actor's and costumes from Lynch's film in my head when I read the original book.

[@ardarharmondale5773]

Yeah. You should try the books. Even if God Emperor of Dune can be harder to read, it's one with a lot of implication for the Universe of Dune as a whole. And even after all those years I still very like Lynch's Dune so I fear a little the new one. :D

[@anydaynow01]

I do all my rereads with audiobooks now while I'm working around the house and yard and I would really recommend that since there is so much content in this series, I wish the "book on tape" (audible) format was as cheap as it is now when I first started the series!

[@toh786]

I wish Dune was here already!

[@moviesnips]

Perhaps the invention of the Ixian no-ships had something to do with Leto II's Golden Path (expanding space travel beyond the Known Universe and ending the monopoly of the Guild (and it's spice addicted navigators) on interstellar commerce.

[@mike595]

I am curious to know if the voice that narrates these videos is computer generated?

[@jeremybaumeister8983]

An excellent explanation as usual. GEoD is my favorite of the original series. I've been rereading it at least 1ce a year and still get new insights out of it. An amazing book. But it would make a terrible movie. It's mostly people sitting around and taking.

[@anydaynow01]

Yeah God Emperor is up there with the greatest works of science fiction, and like you said it would have to be a scifi drama streaming series, there's no way to make a movie from that content it just runs way too deep.

[@allenrussell1947]

The Golden Path insured the ultimate survival of humanity but did nothing to improve that existence. Except for those on the highest tiers of society most merely existed, hoping not to get caught up in the endless contrivances of the Spacing Guild, the BG and the Honored Matres. A dismal future.

[@hashimhathaway1228]

That's because it was incumbent upon humanity to improve their own existence. The only gift Leto II ever promised was survival. The elimination of prescience demanded that humanity improve upon its own.

[@hwinoree2257]

This is an excellent point. I think Frank Herbert did an excellent job with identifying the problem, but he falls short with what he offers as the solution.

[@allenrussell1947]

The bright spot for me is when Duncan out smarts the sisters, steals the No-Ship and the worm and jumps into the abyss and deletes the star charts. They are gone, can never get back and can't be found. Except for this story line, the last two books are basically the Bene Gesserit proving over and over how clever they are then getting kicked in the head and killed anyway. 😁

[@trumanshow162]

F. Herbert wrote the fascinating science fiction “Dune” with ingenious settings like some tech limitations. It also made the novel informative speculative fiction, making us think about the entire system of civilization. On the other, he knew such limitations block civilizational development. The answer will be comprehensive policies for the uplift & utilization of human abilities enabled by the sound introduction of AI-centered techs.

[@silverchairsg]

There's also a Golden Path in my university... well it's actually a yellow strip on the ceiling which leads to the Central Library.

[@jayz6706]

My favourite book of the series.

[@jamespsims4175]

Paul created the future, Leto unmade the future. That was the Golden Path.

[@swordmonkey6635]

One correction. Paul wasn't the kwisatz haderach. That was the main character problem of Paul. He was told and initially thought himself that he was the kwisatz haderach, but he was a generation too early. Paul realized this when he saw that he didn't have the courage to walk The Golden Path and then basically rebelled against the persona and title as he took on the role of the blind iconoclast prophet of the desert. Leto II chose to take the responsibility and villainy of the Golden Path, but he wasn't the kwisatz haderach either in the scheme of the extended saga.

[@NerdCookies]

I respectfully disagree. Paul was a Kwisatz Haderach, the first one. He met all the criteria, he just arrived too early. Leto II was certainly a greater KH but the title applies to both. Your opinion can't be defined as a correction as the books never say that Paul wasn't the KH, only that he was.

[@swordmonkey6635]

@@NerdCookies In the final book it's revealed that the Duncan Idaho ghola (after its many iterations) was the Kwisatz Haderach that was meant to be. Paul was a premature failure. He had the abilities, but lacked the drive. Leto II brought about the Golden Path, but had to die to fulfill it. Duncan was the one left to take on the Machines and be humanity's savior.

[@vikitor21]

Prescience is quite a nice metaphore for internet surveilance we live in today, when you think about it.

[@o_vroboros]

We can't see into the future with internet surveillance

[@jamesbarnette4350]

Turn up your mic or stand closer to it when you record audio is really low

[@Davepool-hs7vr]

After Dune part 2, I wonder if there will be more Dune movies

[@robertjackson1813]

How could I contribute to the golden path?

[@minoterino]

I'm still wondering how much did the worm emperor anticipate what's gonna happen in the following books. I mean , I understand that he did what it needs to humankind to survive any threats in the long run, but I remember him saying something about how war is not the way and then you get some crazy spiders ninja women blowing anything if they're in a bad mood...

[@billylyons7212]

It foretold the fluid events of the future, both great and small. More profoundly, however, it revealed an optimum path through the countless threads of cause and effect that were encountered by the human race. The golden path isn't that far fetched. Our intuition when develop will lead us down the optimum path into the future.

[@jennabronson4704]

We should remember Leto this and every solstice. What he gave so that we may live.

[@galaxypig8168]

DANG

[@davidbrewer9030]

Herbert never explained why there are only humans and no aliens in all the galaxy. I always wondered about that.

[@LordDirus007]

I believe they do end up coming in contact with another Alien Civilization late in the Timeline after Leto II death. Aren't the Worms Aliens?

[@davidbrewer9030]

@@LordDirus007 oh yes, they found evidence or suspicions that the worms might have been brought to Dune. On another note, Herbert's son had cowriten the last sequel with another author that ended with the Synchronized Empire of the robots launching a giant armada towards Human space for revenge. I wonder if they will follow up on this.

[@LordDirus007]

@@davidbrewer9030 Fascinating, I always wondered what the Worms were. However maybe they do come from DNA from Earth, that evolved on the Planet Dune. Like the Desert Mouse Paul is named after is clearly from an Earth Mouse. I looked into it, apparently there was some 5,000 year old structure that they believe was built by Aliens, but then they said another Structure found on Dune is actually almost identical. I wish the Sequel Books would have explore a First Contact with another Alien Civilization, and that causing a Massive War. Where Humanity has to unite to prevent extinction. That would have been a better plot line

[@LordDirus007]

@@davidbrewer9030 That it turns out Leto II had foreseen the Enemy Alien Civilization and he enacted a Plan and Technology to Win the War against the New Alien Threat. A Real Dark Forest Type situation. Like the Three Body Problem. The Sequel Books written by the Son don't seem to be as good. Nothing really original in its contact.

[@richardferguson6893]

A new batch of Cookies? Clickity-click-click.

[@dustinburkhart8526]

That's chick's voice is golden. Gosh I bet she's freaking next level.

[@jennabronson4704]

“I am a predator, Moneo.”

[@davidmeyer3795]

I thought the golden path led you out of the munchkin village in the land of Oz

[@GFlight.916]

Shut up 🤣

[@theishiopian68]

Ah yes, the yellow brick road

[@durwinpocha2488]

The golden path is not more than an endless cycle of violence. AKA, the road that leads no where.

[@joykler]

I think the endless cycle of violence was implied to be inevitable. The question was what would happen between the violence. Innovation, creativity and expansion or stagnation. You can dissagree with the premise, i certainly do.

[@emptyblank099a]

Does heaven/hell exist in dune?

[@tunnelrat78]

5:42

[@meregaming1770]

I'm not a huge fan of the golden path, because it's presented to us as something that must be done, and yet we don't know why. No details on the great threat, no details on how you could make someone immune to prescience. I don't find it entirely believable that the reign of Leto II was really necessary to get people to explore new frontiers.

[@squamish4244]

Yeah. It didn't make sense that you just had to 'scatter' humans to make them survive or never be under the rule of one tyrant again, because you're just kicking the can down the road. (And brutalize them to do so.) In the timescales Dune leans on it'll just mean human extinction is delayed, not prevented. And why not another tyrant? The technology of Dune allows for it. In the last two books it even seems like humanity is under threat again from the crazy sisters or whoever they were, and whatever was chasing them. Destroying prescience makes more sense. I thought that Leto was deliberately evolving genes that could defy his prescience and free people from its trap, and removing prescience from the entire population but himself, so that when he destroyed himself nothing could ever be enslaved by it again. It's like Frank Herbert was just some writer who didn't know what the ultimate solution was for humanity lol That is to say, the ultimate solution in a purely materialistic universe. Contrast him with other worldbuilders like Tolkien whose spiritual beliefs informed the 'ultimate salvation' part of his world creation.

[@zacharyhughes3053]

trying to find that 'golden path' myself..it is illusive...

[@shadowhenge7118]

Sometimes you need to train your people to handle a bigger threat than yourself. 👍

[@timo191]

How would humanity go out into the universe without spice or computers?

[@frankrobinsjr.1719]

Why do you think Paul forced this path upon Leto II? With his prescience, Paul knew what would happen, according to the conversation he had with his son in the desert. Most of the people I know with kids would have accepted the burden themselves rather than forcing their children to suffer. Especially if they would have to suffer for such a prolonged period of time.

[@hwinoree2257]

This is a very good point.

[@NerdCookies]

He didn't really want Leto II to take it either.

[@frankrobinsjr.1719]

@@NerdCookies True. However, Paul knew what the Bene Gesserit would try to do to his children and his family. I think, after his failure to institute the golden path after the death of Chani, Paul used his persona as the Seer to help Leto II to the golden path.

[@dickenstom]

Paul’s not a good dude. He also encouraged Leto II not to take the path and live a happy life instead

[@emptyblank099a]

@@dickenstom How is that a bad thing?

[@cosmodious1755]

I just don't get why destroying the sandworms and majorly limiting the spice would've caused humans to branch out. If humans could only travel in space with the help of the spice (or AI but obviously that's off the table) then surely no human faction would dare risk being too far from Dune for fear of being trapped there forever without a way to get back.

[@pablov9934]

Humanity has always had the impulse to explore and expand beyond safety, just think about the people going to the Americas in the XVI century leaving their lives behind for an uncertain future that could be terrrible but had the courage to do it anyway.

[@nervz]

Leto ii really is the inspiration for characters like eren Yeager and lelouch

[@fallenaeon7084]

And I can't help but to find it funny that the Dune Fandom did not step on the ring when the CG and AOT went to war when the Chapter 139 was released. 😂

[@ironreed2654]

You got the scattering wrong, It did not happen until after Leto 2nd died. He restricted spice, space travel and personal freedoms during his 3000 rules so that when he finally died and released his iron grip, humanity would "scatter" in every direction so they could never be under a tyrant again.

[@kristilisakleiner9384]

Kinda reminds me of Endgame…

[@lindas.8036]

No closed captioning. Impossible to understand what is said.

[@seanhewitt603]

The real world needs a golden path, someone with terrible purpose to enact it and the courage to live it. Frank Herbert saw a need and put pen to paper to let us know.

[@HisShadow]

So the Golden Path is... Give up and run away.

[@ello1234567]

The ultimate utilitarian dilemma, to cause immense suffering, for the potential of something better, survival or humanity itself.

[@MiniatureMasterClass]

Paul was not a hero, he was a coward; Leto II was not a tyrant, he was a hero and Duncan Idaho is the savior that keeps humanity from being exterminated by the thinking machine A.I. from Dune's distant past. There is an error in the video. The goal of the Golden Path was to scatter humanity so the Thinking Machines couldn't hunt down and kill every human in the Universe.

[@emptyblank099a]

Leto 2 is not a hero. Is hitler a hero?

[@em20245]

Aren’t humans already the dominant species in that universe? They are are already spread widely across the universe.

[@johnnyscifi]

What about the brown path?

[@razxmnazx1031]

i know you are padawan.....but are you certain the monkeys are cleared for this/

[@EricOSullivan]

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻Gratitude🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻. I’m pretty sure Leto II created a Woke Future yet that was a step in the Golden Path to make Humanity strive for something better when they figure out how stifling & without freedom. That’s what I got. Thanks, NC! Maybe one how Honored Maitres are like the Cancel Culture Progressive Left to the Bene Gesserit Tradition.🤷‍♂️ perhaps.

[@enkidude]

you could not have a more ass backwards interpretation. pop your echo chamber bubble

[@EricOSullivan]

@@enkidude that’s cute.🤷‍♂️ but hey. It’s just an opinion. And I didn’t lead off with insults. But that’s exactly what Leto II did. Burst Humanity’s Bubble of an Echo Chamber. If you disliked my words here, wait until my take about Intersectional Feminism and modern Identity Politics being the reason for Liet Kynes’s death scene being changed from literal Pathos to Heroic with the race and genderswap. Have a great day. 👍🏻

[@melissabrockman1003]

It seems the logic to the golden path is flawed. To put it simply, you are abusing a person to give them the experience of abuse so they can recognize abuse to know how to avoid it in the future. However, the abuse will cause damage that people will have to heal from prior to being able to use the abusive experience in a positive way. Anyone who has raised children knows that abuse produces children who a prone to mistrust and were never taught coping skills and thus perpetuate the abusive cycle upon their offspring. Thus, Leto II’s tyrant rule will cause more harm than good, teaching humanity pain without coping skills. Herbert was writing from the perspective of the emerging field of psychology in the mid 1960’s. Much has changed since then and trauma is known to cause trauma. “I’m doing this for your own good” is such an archaic mantra and inherently toxic.

[@farvezafridifaizurrahman6980]

Except this isn't psychology but more of an ecological thing. Humanity as a species had to survive, and Leto II was the unfortunate stressor that drove humanity to do its best survive. Think of it like controlled evolution and natural selection.

[@NoorElahi1776]

Nerd Cookies are what I call constipation turds.

[@daniels7907]

What always bothered me about this was Herbert's extremely unrealistic view of humanity. The very idea that a single social model could exist across thousands, if not *millions,* of worlds for more than 10,000+ years while remaining completely stable is just too implausible. Herbert only believed that a genetically-superior elite could direct human history, with the vast majority being hopelessly passive, no matter what their circumstances. Which is disproved by history.

[@Sumitchand.official]

जय श्री राम

[@kineticstar]

The old adage says the path laid in gold is the path to destruction and folly. Spoiler-ish alert for a book almost 50 years old Ironically enough it plays out pretty bad in this series.