The Good Armies of The Lord of the Rings MESBG!

[@ajtame]

What does really annoy me though is the 3rd book has no release date and is only mentioned once in a single article they did ages back. So unsurprisingly, some people aren't aware it exists and as you would expect then get upset their stuff has vanished. But that doesn't stop the smug twats who reply to their posts with an "ackshully I think you'll find GW already answered this". Yeah they did but it's really not good comms to be as 'all quiet on the western front' as it is. Least they could do is drop an article about that book, when we are likely to see it and the sort of thing that's going to be in there.

[@HaywireZombie84]

They mention it again in the Rise of Angmar PDF (which you won't read if you're not playing Arnor or Angmar, to support your point)

[@toros7983]

​@@HaywireZombie84 Yep, only noticed that on the second read as well.

[@MarcRitzMD]

Farmer Maggot is in the movies and has a speaking role

[@TTAlliance]

Yeah which we said…but we don’t see him properly

[@MarcRitzMD]

@TTAlliance what do you mean? We even see one of his dogs. He talks with the Nazgul, says "there's no Baginses here, they're down in Hobbiton. That way." There's a real close-up to his face

[@AlexanderGiraldez]

Thanks for this walkthrough. Looking forward to seeing the evil lists.

[@TTAlliance]

Will be up next week ☺️

[@What2Have4Dinner]

I had no idea there was another book coming. I get a chance to read one article in 5 on warcom.

[@HaevyGlow]

You made one small mistake - Rider of the Dead moves 12" when mounted which is very good as they can outrun any other calvary

[@masonkingsbury37]

Yeah I really don’t want to play scenes from the movies exclusively. Some are so weird and specific - all I want for Xmas is for them to say “pure armies can be used with any combo” no allies still. And if I’m being cheeky, pure armies get minor bonuses.

[@nilssaugen2303]

The only thing that is consistent throughout these lists is that models are limited to GW inventory. I forsee that this will be the great houserules version…

[@bouncingbeebles]

Remember that the first book will include models from the Lord of the Rings movies, the second book will include models from the Hobbit movies, and the third book will include all the other models not featured on screen.

[@nilssaugen2303]

@@bouncingbeebles Yes, but odds are that the 3. book will just contain more of the same. And still the issue of all the missing wargear will still be present.

[@Tigerheart01]

@@nilssaugen2303 What missing wargear?

[@axelskovgaardteglskov8443]

The reason for most of the weird lists (or weird profiles in a list) is probably that GW prioritised one thing above all else: If an existing model appeared in the movies, then it must be present in an army list. The Shire list exists because Gandalf's cart and the non-fellowship hobbits appear in the movies and have models, but no other armies should be allowed to take them. Likewise, Kingdom of Rohan and Minas Tirith exist as lists because Theodred and Denethor need lists to be in. Boromir can take a horse in the Fellowship, because his mounted model exists and appears in the movies, and it would make even less sense for it to be in any other list. The same goes for Barliman Butterbur and the Gatekeeper in Road to Rivendell.

[@ESOdanny]

I find the new army lists quite limiting, I miss the 'what if' army lists I could create before. After I'd re-enacted the narrative movie battles from the movies, the old list building rules allowed me to experience the game in a way no other medium but tabletop could, e.g. Thranduil fights Dain lord of the Iron Hills. Fully aware of the other army book, but I can tottaly understand that allot of players have been left concerned that this element of the game has been removed (until whenever the new book releases, and assuming it addresses these issues) with the launch of a new edition.

[@TTAlliance]

Yeah I agree. It’s a big negative of the new edition. The good news is, it’s only of the only negatives, and there have been many positive changes to the game

[@andystocking5316]

I keep having a problem with building almost every list: the command units are not actually sold anymore. No Isengard / mordor Orc command, no Wild man Chieftan. It actually makes a number of lsits really hard to actually build the army.

[@TTAlliance]

Yeah so much is out of stock. Probably due to a lot being repackaged. It’s massively pushing people towards proxies though. Use Forgemaster minis if you’re into proxies. (TTA15 for 15% off 😉)

[@Tigerheart01]

I like the new army lists. I am however awaiting the new book too.

[@ric1194]

The road ti rivendell is a great list that caps out at 500 points. I'll be taking it to that and lower point tournaments.

[@dr.gigglesprout6006]

The thing that surprises me is that there are no specific rules stating that you can't just run models from a faction outside of LL. Each model has points and options listed outside of LL, and outside of losing out to the LL bonuses, you can build whatever you want. Please correct me with page numbers if there is a specific rule preventing this. I would still allow it since you lose so much value from the bonuses, but if this is correct, then people can still run generic lists.

[@chadchaddington3646]

Im a huge fan of the list building limitations. Chopping down all the same old number crunchy armies who spun around the same handful of heroes at events. Hopefully making more armies somewhat viable and far more thematic. Most play time here in the U.S. is travelling up to 2 hours for a tournament once every few months and seeing nothing but the same Angmar, Easterling, Khan, Last Alliance and Gwaihir allied with x. Got really old really quick. It stopped feeling like lotr and more like some generic fantasy wargame.

[@TTAlliance]

Interesting point of view! There are certainly some positives to the list building in this edition!

[@TheZaidge]

All I really want is for them to recognize that this doesn’t need to be a competitive game and doesn’t need to be perfectly balanced I prefer it as a narrative skirmish game you can sometimes make larger for fun

[@TTAlliance]

I personally love both sides. It’s great as a competitive game. And obviously perfect as a massive skirmish game

[@bendeguzvarga816]

Guys please read the special rules for each army list. Gandalf lost his staff on paper, but the special rule is exactly the effect of his staff. So de facto he didn't lose it. Also The pelenor list doesnt actually have that much variety since the three hunters can only lead warriors of the dead etc. So if you bring aragorn and legolas than you basically build a army of the dead. I think that list looks much more diverse at first glance than it actually is 😢

[@TTAlliance]

If we read all the rules for every army, it would be an extremely long video 😅 and as much as we’d love to just live stream all day, we can’t 🥲

[@Andaer11]

I like the boromir , denathor special rule (im still using the old rules) I have ideas for Great banners , (like Minss Tirith) banner of the witch King & Barad Dúr & Isengard or Saruman, Dol Amroth …. Which are light objects , (range of banner) if dropped leave a marker , if captured by the enemy (victory points allocated) are taken by the enemy in addition as a prize of war

[@Andaer11]

Númenor: WHEN WILL GW DO AN ANÂRION (I doubt it) Ive got a green Isildur (Isildur) & a white and Silver (Anârion) (hero of Dominion * upto 24 warriors) infantry - MV. F. SH S. D A. W. C IT. M. W. F 6”. 6. 4. 5. 7. 3. 3. 6. ? 4. 3. 1 - Finecrafted Nùmenorean Heavy Armour & Blade of the Westernes (bane SPIRITS) * Heroic Strike * Heroic Strength Son of ancient Numenor. - 12” standfast & counts as a banner those around him (even if he”s in combat) and adds +1 courage to - special rule Duel of Kings :

[@JohnnyH5]

I wondered why I liked you guys, you're Welsh... Great video thank you very much. Just wondering if you're going to do a review on the Angmar and Arnor PDF?

[@TTAlliance]

@@JohnnyH5 haha! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 No probably not to be honest, I believe they stated the profiles are temporary until the armies of middle earth book comes out

[@Harrison-cr2wl]

Just picked up my copy and the lists they have don’t disappoint, ofcourse the third book will be the flesh to some of these lists but in the previous edition it was always disappointing you couldn’t take the 4 fellowship hobbits (in their pre war of the ring state) in the shire list - which ofcourse now you can For me regarding the armies of the Lotr content, there’s only two removals of options which I think are missteps, no horse for captains of minas tirith, and no wargs for Mordor (and angmar) orc captains. All other armies that received later plastic cavalry (easterlings, Rivendell, dol amroth, morgul knights, galadhrim) I expect will receive mounted generic heroes. While Rohan gets it on the basis of their metal mounted captain (and whole theme). Leaving orc and minas tirith captains somewhat left out

[@GlennJackson-d8e]

The general question I have is this: is the new armies book really necessary for non-competitive players. It seems the profiles are essentially the same as before with the intelligence value added. Models have been deleted, so, if you wanted to play "retired" models, you could revert to the earlier profiles. The army composition, in many cases, is not very compelling and even though the official new faction rules have changed, players could use old faction rules or, even, come up with better rules for a scenario. Are the points values different than the earlier books? I find it questionable if the new armies book is as good as the old one and paying 60 dollars seems hardly worth it. Give me a good reason.

[@TTAlliance]

@@GlennJackson-d8e if you’re just playing casually with friends then do whatever you enjoy most. If you want to play competitively, you’ll need it. And yeah quite a few point have changed. As well as fight values

[@GlennJackson-d8e]

@@TTAlliance Thank you for giving me this information. I did wonder if values such as fight were changed.

[@seanwilliams7073]

I don't agree that the alliance matrix "wasn't broken" before. It was intended to give players a chance to recreate scenes from the movies and books, not to give powergamers an opportunity to build soup lists that make no sense thematically. I would only be OK with bringing back soup if ALL alliances (yes, all) were red alliances. Wanna soup in Gwaihir with Boromir? Have fun with no army bonus

[@TTAlliance]

That’s pretty much what we said. Allow alliances but remove bonuses

[@masonkingsbury37]

I’d go one step further and say only “pure” army lists are available - no alliances no mixing factions (unless it’s a legendary legion) whether all pure armies still get a bonus of some sort idk

[@michalsiemasz3227]

Breaking of the Fellowship not viable? Are you kidding me 😆 You've got an army with great heroes, strong magic resistance, with extra defence against range which is almost unbreakable. And now you also have some actual affirdable bodies to grow them ranks. On lower-mid level points this should do well me thinks.

[@xerospacious4024]

they all need dominant though imo.

[@TTAlliance]

Yeah it’s strong at the right point level for sure. You just have to very much limit how many members of the fellowship you take 😅

[@michalsiemasz3227]

@@TTAlliance I think Aragorn, Frodo and Boromir are first picks before Haldir & Co. afterwards it's all optional.

[@axelskovgaardteglskov8443]

The list's magic resistance is significantly weaker than it used (except for Aragorn) since they nerfed Fortify Spirit.

[@scatterthewinds3126]

I'm very concerned. If after the last book is released the thematic lists are too strong compared to the mono faction lists, this game will die a slow death. A huge pull for many people is the list design part of the hobby, which could be completely dead once the community discovers which of the (very restrictive) thematic lists are the strongest. If GW won't do it it's up to the event organizers to start banning things left and right.

[@TTAlliance]

I don’t think it will kill the game. But yeah, when the meta lists are discovered, they will have to make changes 😬

[@doubleoblit]

I love how you guys are blaming players who are not chronically online for being concerned about the state of their army but not GW, who is literally the only entity in charge of communicating these things to the fans. Maybe some deeper thinking is required, gentleman.

[@TTAlliance]

@@doubleoblit what do you mean? We have had plenty to say about GW 😂

[@doubleoblit]

@@TTAlliance that's fine, but you don't get a pass just because you've been correct elsewhere. GW has made a complete mess of MESBG and people need to stop blaming the casuals for not understanding what is going on. It's amazing how many people don't seem to realize that not every player is so obsessed with MESBG that they know everything that's going on. One of the most frustrating things I've seem is people speaking up against the negativity under the pretence that it's bad for the community. What is actually bad for the community is getting annoyed at players who are shocked at what GW has done and telling them to simply wait an indefinite amount of time. I guarantee that being dismissive of players' concerns is going to harm the community infinitely more than good-faith criticisms and concerns.

[@TTAlliance]

@ Yes I agree with you! GW has handled this poorly! We’re on the same side 😅

[@xenosophont]

I agree about Lindon sucking azz mostly because of the ridiculously nerfed and weaksauce Gil-Galad profile AND being forced to take him (the magic res aura is also tied to his deadweight investment of a profile). What a botch job that is; only 3 Actions for the likes of Elendil and Gil and GG doesn't even get Strike and instead gets Resolve on top of losing B&G with nothing to compensate AND is more expensive even on foot w/o a shield (with the picture of him bearing a shield on his page). Lindon suckinballz is just an extension of Gil-Galad suckinballz. The old re-roll shots aura not being tied to the Leader and just requiring any hero could've been nice if the rest of the list didn't BLOW (just like the only utility left to Cirdan now: blowing stuff/banners etc. with Call Winds). I absolutely do not agree with your stance on Rivendell though. You just took a glance at the two weaksauce special rules (Invoke the Bruinen isn't even bad) and said "meh" and moved on. What makes Rivendell a strong list isn't "the rules": it's the buffed Elrond, giga-buffed Arwen and the (slightly buffed) Knights. Daddy & daughter wrathspam Knight lists are going to kick ass and the change to Heroic Channeling alone guarantees that Rivendell will dominate. Even mixed Knight-Warrior lists with Elrond & Arwen should do just fine if not exactly as well as pure Knights. Riv will also be getting another boost once the OMEGA-BUFFED gigachad Glorfindel comes to Rivendell in AoME.

[@TTAlliance]

Yeah you’re probably right there. Obviously we were just looking at the lists themselves and not the profiles here 😊

[@xenosophont]

Yeah I wasn't being a "serious critic" here, you guys did a noice overall summary. What defines a list's power level (especially a "LL" which is everything now) is a combination of its army-wide rules and the collection of profiles in it with their importance/weight in varying degrees. Thrandaddies' Halls v2 seems extremely reliant on its +1 to W aura rule at first glance just like before but the profiles themselves are now so strong (Megolas, Tauriel, new glaives) that the list would merely be downgraded to mid-tier from top-tier if you were to remove that rule. White Hand also has an extremely strong spec rule obviously intentionally tempered/balanced by weak warrior profiles. Specialized/tailored rules are the saving grace of LL style ready-made lists (which certainly have their shortcomings in a lack of variety, stifling list-building creativity etc.). Not all lists have been skillfully paired with well designed special rules that elevates their playstyle however (cough Lindon cough).

[@xerospacious4024]

listbuilding. Choose a list, Pretty much it for most of em ahah.