The Good News About Science And the Faith | Stephen Barr | Christianity & Science

[@donaldrotunda7211]

This is a brilliant lecture. I commend Professor Barr on giving an excellent talk.

[@FlyingMalamute]

I've read Dr Barr's excellent book "Modern Physics and Ancient Faith", and thank him for it. It's so lucid!

[@alissathorell895]

Are the slides available from this presentation?

[@HarryNicNicholas]

what happened, you forget to turn comments off? most of your videos don't allow any critique.

[@goodquestion7915]

Stephen imagines that being a renowned physicist qualifies him to lecture on any subject. Just let him speak (he loves to hear himself) and his BS eventually lays bare.

[@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370]

Here’s the bad news when it comes to faith and science. For many Catholics going along with science is fine until it challenges their beliefs. When it does, it becomes dispensable and faith trumps science because science goes against “infallible” teaching. But this approach is grossly in error. Faith and reason need not be in conflict. With regards to faith and science, if the Church were to change Her stance on the blessings of same-sex monogamous unions and bless them, based on new incontrovertible evidence that homosexuals do in fact, occupy part of the natural order, would you leave the Church believing it has gone heretical or schismatic? To do so would either be calling Jesus a liar or mistaken or both. He told us when He told us He would protect His Church to the end of time as shown in scripture: Matthew 16:18: "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." This verse is often interpreted as Jesus promising the enduring existence and protection of His Church. Matthew 28:19-20: These verses are part of the Great Commission, where Jesus commands His disciples to go and make disciples of all nations. He says, "And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." This statement is understood by many Christians to indicate Jesus' continued presence and protection of His Church as it carries out its mission. John 14:16: In this passage, Jesus is speaking to His disciples and promising to send the Holy Spirit as a helper and advocate. He says, "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever." This promise of the Holy Spirit's presence and guidance is seen as an assurance of God's protection and care for the Church. Matthew 16:19: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Here, Jesus is speaking specifically to the Apostle Peter after Peter's declaration of faith. This verse is interpreted as Jesus empowering Peter and his successors, a special authority and the power to make binding decisions for the Church. And again in Matthew 18:18, Jesus says, "Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." He emphasizes the importance of reconciliation and the authority of the Church to make decisions that align with God's will. In both instances, Jesus is conveying the idea that the Church has been entrusted with the authority to make decisions and judgments under God's guidance. The power to bind and loose is understood as the authority to make authoritative pronouncements regarding matters of doctrine, discipline, and moral teachings. These passages are often cited to support the belief in the Church's authority to teach, govern, and guide the faithful. They are foundational in understanding the role of the Church in infallibly interpreting and applying God's will in the lives of believers. Case in point: Medical experts have stated they can find no studies to show that homosexuality is an abnormality in the human person. Experts now widely agree (American Psychological Association (APA), World Health Organization (WHO), American Medical Association (AMA), World Medical Association (WMA), National Academy of Sciences (NAS), National Library of Medicine, and many other numerous research studies) that homosexuality is a natural variation of human sexuality rather than a conscious choice made by individuals or an unnatural disorder the homosexual was born with. Scientific studies NOW conclude that homosexuality will make up 3% of the population, no matter what, and that homosexuality IS part of the natural order. So, it seems our knowledge of this matter has changed. Should not our theology develop and evolve in light of these new findings? After all, aren’t homosexuals made in the image and likeness of God, as we all are? If we are not to dispute the scientific and medical consensus, the question then becomes, are homosexuals not allowed to carry out God’s plan of love and commitment in the best way possible, in loving monogamous same-sex unions? Are they not allowed to participate in true love and commitment that mirrors Christ’s love for us on the cross in the same way heterosexual couples are who have impediments to marriage, are given dispensations by the Church to marry, even though they cannot fulfil all marriage requirements? It is through no fault of their own, that gays are who they are. God made them as surely as he made you and me, and we all know, God doesn’t make junk. The only one that seems to be willing to bring the faith into line with science is Pope Francis. When this change comes, and it will, what then? Will you leave the Church because it has gone off the rails and you are wiser and more protected by Jesus than She is? Where will you go if Francis holds the keys?

[@societyofcatholicscientist615]

There is a confusion here between two different concepts. Saying that something is a "part of the natural order" is not the same thing as saying that it is in accord with the "nature" of an organism that is affected by it, i.e. beneficial to it. To say otherwise would lead to absurd conclusions. Getting eaten by predators is certainly part of the order of nature. Second, saying that some trait arises with a certain predictable statistical frequency does not allow one to conclude that it is something good. Third, one should also note that Pope Francis has not said that homosexual acts are in accord with the natural moral law and therefore not sinful. Finally, your question can be turned around: if Scripture says that homosexual acts are immoral (as it clearly does in several places in both the Old and New Testaments). and if the Church has taught that for two millennia (as it has), and if Pope Francis also has taught that marriage can only be between a man and a woman and that sex outside of marriage is illicit (as in fact he has), then will YOU leave the Church?

[@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370]

Thank you for your response and for engaging in this discussion. First, I understand your point about the distinction between something being "part of the natural order" and it being in accord with the nature of an organism. It is indeed crucial to differentiate between what is natural and what is morally good or beneficial. However, in the case of homosexuality, the argument being made is not that it is morally good simply because it exists in the natural order, but rather that it is a natural variation of human sexuality. Second, you rightly point out that the statistical frequency of a trait does not determine its moral goodness. I agree that statistical frequency alone does not establish the moral status of homosexuality. Moral evaluations are based on a broader understanding of natural law, divine revelation, and the teachings of the Church. They can and must evolve and develop, based on new scientific discoveries as the Church maintains that faith and science can never be in conflict. Third, I acknowledge that Pope Francis has not explicitly stated that homosexual acts are in accord with the natural moral law and not sinful. The Church's official position, as expressed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, remains consistent in affirming that homosexual acts are considered morally disordered. However, Pope Francis has emphasized the importance of treating all individuals with respect, dignity, and compassion, regardless of their sexual orientation. As new scientific discovery comes to light, doctrine can be fine-tuned as the Church maintains that faith and science can never be in conflict. Lastly, your question about whether I would leave the Church if it were to change its stance on the blessings of same-sex unions is a valid one. As a Catholic, I believe in the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the promise of Christ to protect His Church. The Church's teachings on faith and morals are not determined solely by popular opinion or societal trends. They are rooted in Scripture, tradition, and the Magisterium, and are intended to guide the faithful toward the truth and the path of salvation. I accept all teachings of our Holy Mother Church. Sometimes, however, I have difficulty understanding them, particularly when new scientific fact comes to light that questions them. All that said, I am going nowhere. Christ made us some promises that I am counting on. Now, I can’t help but notice, you haven’t answered the question? While individual opinions may differ on certain matters, it is important to approach these discussions with humility, openness to dialogue, and a willingness to seek understanding. As Catholics, we are called to be faithful to the teachings of the Church, even when they may be challenging or counter to prevailing cultural norms. Through this fidelity, we strive to uphold the truth and participate in the ongoing development of theology within the framework of the Church's teachings.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@societyofcatholicscientist615 i have to say it's great that the pope has finally pointed out god's error about homosexuality and okayed gay marriage, nice to see religion finally catching up with real morality, and good of the religists to admit god was wrong. maybe in a few years it'll l be so watered down religion will be invisible. what did they do with the space left by limbo being abolished? ballroom? casino?