The Gospel of Thomas and Q

Scholars had long argued that the authors of Matthew and Luke used a lost gospel of Jesus’ sayings known as “Q,” in addition to using Mark’s gospel as a source. One argument against the existence of Q was that no such “sayings gospels” were known. That changed with the rediscovery of the sayings Gospel of Thomas at Nag Hammadi in Egypt in 1945. The Gospel of Thomas, like the hypothetical Q, contains few narrative elements and consists almost entirely of a list of teachings attributed to Jesus. John Hamer of Toronto Centre Place will compare Thomas and Q to consider overlaps and relationships of the sayings each text preserves.
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[@salt1956]

Mr Hamer always explains his topics very well. Much appreciated.

[@garymensurati1631]

Always excellent analysis. Honest and heartfelt. Thank you John. Blessings to all.

[@neilhundtoft4873]

Among the more striking differences between the Gospel of Thomas and Quelle is that none of the apocalyptic themes found in Quelle are found in The Gospel of Thomas. Helmut Koester's foundational research in “Ancient Christian Gospels” points to layers of redaction to Quelle over time. “Of the seventy-nine sayings of Thomas with Synoptic Gospel parallels, forty-six have parallels in Q, but the typical apocalyptic perspective of the later redaction of Q does not appear in any of these sayings.” (Helmut Koester, “Ancient Christian Gospels”, p 87) Their absence from the Gospel of Thomas suggests its earlier authorship and that Quelle is in fact subsequently reflecting the apocalyptic hopes of a later developing Christian community. This order of authorship can also explain how the earlier softer, gentler sayings found in Thomas could have become the brief, more harsh and strident expressions we find in Quelle's warnings of the coming judgment. Thomas and Quelle brought different messages. The terse bluntness of Quelle's message could justify a briefer, more in-your-face, expression of an earlier, softer version of a saying in general circulation. The derivative position of Thomas relative to the synoptic gospels has been an unproven assumption throughout this presentation. It ain't necessarily so! Peace.

[@smroog]

EXCELLENT !!! EXCELLENT !!!! So interesting to listen to Mr. Hamer. Can not fathom the amount of time and effort he has put into his studies !!!! And I get to learn so much because of this !!! I am a very lucky man. Thank you !! Thank you !!!

[@QUICKSILVER369]

Thank you for another brilliant lecture! Your lectures just get better and better.😉The side panel gives the viewer reference providing the illustrations. They add to understanding the material as well as often giving reference materials. BTW "Q" has recently been used (100+yrs) to be short for "Quartermaster" in military jargon.

[@GaryAskwith1in5]

I wonder if Spike Milligan named his ‘Q’ comedy sketch tv series after this Q?

[@whidoineedthis]

Quartermaster no longer exists. They're nav et

[@whidoineedthis]

At least in the sub force.

[@Nooneself]

Seek, and you will find... May be in reference to the saying " the kingdom of God in WITHIN you. Best wishes

[@neilhundtoft4873]

Regarding the order of authorship: At 46:45 the banner reads: “In this case, Matthew has the shortest and most jarring teaching - without apologetic softening, adding qualifiers like 'many' [as in Thomas]- and is arguably therefore the closest to the original.” an observation for which Hamer claims Saying #4 provides evidence. But going from a soft and gentle statement to a harsher and judgmental one can equally be a sign of later editing. Taken together with the common sense principle that added verbiage to a saying is also evidence of editing, consider Thomas' Saying #65 and its synoptic parallels. The Gospel of Thomas says: “Since the farmers knew that he was the heir to the vineyard, they seized him and killed him. Whoever has ears should hear.” Then comes Mark in year 73 or so, declaring: “They took him, and killed him and threw him out of the vineyard. What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vine-growers, and will give the vineyard to others.” (Mark 12:8-9.) After another ten to fifteen years have past, Matthew picks up the theme “Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers? They said to him, 'He will put those wretches to a miserable death, and lease the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the produce at the harvest time.'” (Matthew 21:41) We move from a brief, dispassionate observation in Thomas about the death of the innocent to an extended condemnation of scathing vitriol and retribution in Matthew. What is the most likely order of their authorship? By my lights, the calm of the Gospel of Thomas most likely preceded the storm clouds of Mark and Matthew. The Gospel of Thomas, therefore, most likely reflects an authorship earlier than either of them.

[@robinstevenson6690]

SUGGESTION: Since Thomas is such a popular topic, it would be interesting to do a whole separate lecture on its redaction history. Early Thomas may have been quite similar to Q. Later versions may have been increasingly "gnosticizing."

[@altheaang1045]

iiioioool0

[@GeorgeCostanzais10.]

John Hamer’s lectures are awesome!

[@tctc440]

Thanks for another Wonderful Presentation

[@klightlightmusic]

Thank you John. The Gospel of Thomas has always resonated with me as a truer voice of the Jewish Mystic, (perhaps a Gnostic) of the man called Jesus. It feels like his intimate voice. Please do a lecture dissecting each teaching there, the metaphors and the inherited wisdom handed down through the ages, From Egypt, Greece, Hinduism and The Far East. You are a treasure.

[@neilhundtoft4873]

I couldn't agree with you more about the Gospel of Thomas. Saying #28 expresses so beautifully the campassion and love that the Jesus of the Gospel of Thomas brings. This is a Jesus who judges no one, and who has hope for all. “For now they are drunk, but when they shake off their wine, they'll come around.” And what a contrast with Quelle's consistent reproachfulness. Quelle begins by having John the Baptist berating the “brood of vipers” coming out for his baptism and ends with judging the twelve tribes. The sweet Jesus of the Gospel of Thomas shows us a way of peace instead. That's the Jesus for me! Peace.

[@neilhundtoft4873]

Continuing the point, with your indulgence: I'm persuaded that The Gospel of Thomas was written before Quelle. Part of my reasoning comes from how Quelle has Jesus bringing judgment down on the towns where Jesus had his primary ministry. (Quelle [Luke] 10:13-15) Capernaum is being sent to hell?! Capernaum? The home of Peter's mother-in-law? And Bethsaida, Peter's home town also?! What could have happened?! I'm thinking that it's because Jesus' actual ministry, bringing the message of peace as reflected in Thomas, was so successful there that the traveling preacher who later brought Quelle's scary apocalyptic message was rejected out of hand. I think that they sent him packing out of town on a figurative rail. The people of those communities, remembering Jesus' actual message, weren't about to be pulled in by Quelle's conspiracy theory of God's retribution to coming from Jesus' impending vengeful return. I think Quelle is best understood as a pissed-off, wizened and cynical old preacher whose apocalyptic message didn't get any traction on Jesus' home turf. So goes my pondering. Peace.

[@marcusdoolette1547]

Wonderful lecture as always. Thank you so much for the information and all the work you guys put into this.

[@termination9353]

The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.

[@JamesBeanSantMatMystic]

William D. Stroker's book, Extracanonical Sayings of Jesus, Scholars Press, is a great resource gathering together Q and Thomas parallel material from the vast world of apocryphal sources. Very useful for the Thomas reader.

[@robinstevenson6690]

Would also love to see you do a lecture on the earliest (mid-first century) non-Pauline Jesus traditions, focusing on the Didache and earliest core sayings in Thomas, as well as the very oldest sections of Q. They may fascinatingly reveal a pre-Pauline Christianity.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

Nobody can do that because the Didache was not a first century work. The Didache rejects the symbolism of baptism, which no one in any church of Christ would knowingly do. The Didache does not have a datestamp on it and so it's up to the guesswork of people who won't believe the word of God to place it in time. It is POST apostolic.

[@psychedelicsanonymous3104]

You're doing a great job!

[@johnerikstacy500]

Listening to your lecture made me think of learning about sets in math. I did a little looking on the web to refresh my memory of the symbols used in sets and logic and came up with this: Q = [W¬M] ∩ [L¬M] where M is Mark, W is Matthew and L is Luke. It is meant to read Q is the parts that don't come from M and are common to both W and L.

[@braeutchen41]

A true math-science mind🤭. Married to an engineer w 4 engineer children, dinner can be a bit overwhelming for me However, I make a MEAN peanut butter cookie....🤭

[@ngmui430]

IF q ever existed. its only some peoples theory

[@JH-pt6ih]

I thought John was going to tell us Q was not a reference to the character in Star Trek but instead he said it wasn't Quanon. I think he really wanted to make a Star Trek reference.

[@JH-pt6ih]

@Gary Allen You don't say.

[@exoplanet11]

Quite a quincunx of Q's of questionable quality.

[@unrecognizedtalent3432]

I was just thinking that this morning!

[@Nooneself]

"Poor in spirit" in early Christianity is a reference to not having an overgrown ego or thinking you're better than others. Best wishes

[@Thesortvokter]

Jesus is the best example of an overgrown ego.

[@adriennepatterson6113]

​@@Thesortvokter lol what?

[@adriennepatterson6113]

I always took it as broken hearted too, like the suffering you see and feel in those around you really gets to you and it hurts that you can't fix it for them.

[@Thesortvokter]

@@adriennepatterson6113 Yes. Matthew 10: 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

[@chrisdow6627]

I don't think this is right and I don't think there's any way to argue it honestly

[@marymagnuson5191]

Imagine what was lost when the Romans destroyed the Library at Alexandria.

[@user-jf7sx4js9c]

? Or did they move it to the Vatican basement

[@marymagnuson5191]

@@user-jf7sx4js9c really good question.

[@user-gs2ll1qd5r]

IMAGINE WHAT WAS LOST WHEN THE CHRISTIANS ATTACKED AND DESTROYED THE LIBRARY IN ALEXANDRIA AND MURDERED HYPATHIA AND RIPOED HER BODY APART, 😮JUST BECAUSE SHE WAS A SCIENTIST AND AN INDEPENDENT THINKING WOMAN. 😢 LEARN YOUR REAL VIOLENT HISTORY DEAR CHRISTIANS❤

[@peterhook2258]

"mind over matter" . Your imagination and creativity is very powerful and can solve many problems...and its free. Have faith in yourself. Once you discover your power..you will be disturbed and marvel (at your ability and wherewithal..as well as others) and you will be empowered. Nice teaching.

[@ChrisMusante]

6:50... just as I crank up my volume. I love non-edited videos - they're 'honest'. 👍 ty

[@ChrisMusante]

7:00... and even an apology. You're the best brotha!! ❤

[@ChrisMusante]

45:48ish - you take Mark out of the picture, with regards to the first/last passages, and the present Thomas as outside the box because it reformats the point to say become a single one. It would appear that there is a disconnect, but might I point out that in Mark, the next verses that follow the first/last passage where 'Mark' says... "If anyone would be first (greatest), he must be last of all and servant of all." and then follows with, "Whoever recieves one such child in my name recieves me, and whoever recieves me, recieves not me but him who sent me." which highlights the idea that Jesus and the Father are... One. This effectively makes it quite easy to tie the Gospel of Thomas to Mark. Now if it can be understood that it is written that "the older will serve the younger", one can see where God is a 'servant' to us from a spiritial stance, in that as being 'led' by the spirit... He can be 'served'. Can you see my point and postion?

[@ChrisMusante]

49:20 - I would point out that Luke is speaking directly 'to' the poor, and Matthew to those who are 'not'. Thomas makes it clear and ties all (3) together as to point out that those who 'are poor' have used their wealth in a manner that makes them 'barers of' the Kingdom... not to possess it, but to dispense it's 'riches'. The 'spirit' aspect of being poor is highlighted in the Book of Revelation (which is a map and guide of 'things to do' - not a 'monster story') where it says, "you say you are poor but you are 'rich'..." Those who are 'poor' (in spirit) will generally (and should, as per Revelation) 'seek' to gain more, and thus in seeking will 'find'.

[@ChrisMusante]

51:42 - the point od this teaching can actually be understood with the help of Paul, where somewhere he writes, "In this I give you advice, it is to your advantage to do and to continue to do what it was you desired to do a year ago. For the desire (want) does not come from what one does 'not have', but from what one 'does have' (spirit/faith)" emphasis mine. In the same way... you can have 'stuff' but no 'spirit'. And in 'not' trusting that you should use or 'sow' the talents that you have, will find that the 'seeds' which will result in that which can be reaped are then 'not' sewn. This right here is a perfect example (and ironic to say that the talent is buried in the ground) of EXACTLY what Jesus was referring to when He said to 'fish from the other side'. Sorry (and not) for a million comments, but once you can 'see' the perspective from which Jesus 'taught', it becomes obvious that the 'knowledge' of Jesus Christ is much more than pinning the fix for botched 'knitting job' that God used our mother's wombs for. Jus' sayin'.

[@ChrisMusante]

Thomas' use of 'in hand' is to point out that what is 'in hand' has to be 'given out'... how much can you put in a 'full hand'? 😂

[@mikeettinger7132]

In reference to the four beasts of revelation, you fail to mention the likeness to Ezekiel's four living creatures, the four pillars of the throne.

[@EmeraldCityRattPack]

My interpretation of Thomas 48: Going with jungian theories, our body would be the house or temple. When making peace with ourselves and becoming united with our shadow aspect, we are making the 2 into 1. In this, our consciousness will be elevated, we will be reborn and we will enter the kingdom. I also interpret the kingdom as the recognition of the divine in anything and everything we see. Which we have the ability and authority to do so now, while on the physical plane, on earth.

[@ernstvandijk6342]

Kudos to John from Luxembourg (Europe)!

[@deborahhebblethwaite1865]

The four creatures are also the fixed signs of the Zodiac. Scorpio is also symbolized by the eagle and phoenix 🇨🇦

[@ready1fire1aim1]

Hi John and Centre Place, Have you ever heard of the NOG translation of the Old Testament? Would you consider doing a video on the differences between "Ruach Elohim" and "Ruach Yahweh"? These two polar opposite Spirits can only be seen using the NOG translation, unfortunately. (Free on most any Bible website) I can't find any scholars who know anything at all about Ruach Elohim and Ruach Yahweh. Thanks!

[@MikeShonVideos]

Paul Wallis and Mauro Biglino?

[@alittleofeverything4190]

Is there a video about which stories in the gospels have historicity?

[@mattandkim17]

46:08 mark also says in ch.10 v.31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

[@robinstevenson6690]

The eminent scholar Helmut Koester viewed (the original core layer of) Thomas as being among the very earliest Christian writings, with some unique sayings that may reveal valuable insights about mid-first century Jesus traditions. You could delve into this more deeply.

[@Robert_L_Peters]

Thank you

[@termination9353]

- The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th. - Your welcome.

[@adriennepatterson6113]

50:14. It seems to be the same saying in Luke 8 but with slightly different context and makes much more sense. Also together seems to be written specifically for the brethren of the Mormon Church - 17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. 18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

[@biln2]

wow! these lectures are a real treat for ppl who love truth. thank you Dr. Hamer and Centre Place for creating this series, which stands out for its scholarship and its candor. high marks across and up and down the trestle board, fam. meanwhile, ideologues can continue flattering themselves in the "evangelical apologia" vids, which might as well be Jay Z and Sam Satan at the Grammys, worshipping "Stove Gods." like Augustin wrote, "Ignorance spoken is blasphemy."

[@mailang3307]

Two becoming one mean mind and soul or spirit and body into the same goal, faith or situation? Dont know how to explain it but who meditate on it will understand how it work. The way how to connect our brain(upper room) with our heart(basement 😂 I meant so many stuff in our heart- non spiritual things for sure)

[@jaredt.ridgeway1186]

I asked that question because of the testimony of pilat or the gospels of nicodemus

[@rlaboiss]

Thank you for this thorough and interesting lecture. Are there scholarly references on the theory of Mark retrojecting visions of the risen Christ into Jesus' life, as presented at 24:50?

[@AquariusGate]

Thanks for the content and effort in thoughtfully putting this together. The more I delve into christianity the more it becomes a manipulative hoax. It seems clear that a devotion to God is through exposure to many gospels and narrative teachings that lead to divine union with the source. We may even speak plainly about it, exploring faith not protecting faith from absurd delusional threats.

[@sebolddaniel]

Brilliant observaion about Jesus talkig about Jews in John

[@noahheninger]

Thanks!

[@termination9353]

The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.

[@noahheninger]

@@termination9353 Interesting story. Is that from a Dan Brown novel?

[@termination9353]

@@noahheninger It's from the Gospel narrative itself to start with John 21:24 "This is the disciple[whom Jesus loved/ Lazarus] which testifieth of these things, AND WROTE THESE THINGS: and we[Apostles] know that his testimony is true."

[@noahheninger]

@@termination9353 Of course, how ignorant of me not to take one obscure little verse out of John and draw multiple unsupported conclusions from it.

[@termination9353]

@@noahheninger Asked and answered. No need to get infantile.

[@cae02]

Win’gid? Or Wing’d

[@Nooneself]

The Gospel of Thomas is believed to have been originally written in Coptic, which is an Egyptian language that uses the Greek alphabet with additional characters. However, scholars think that the Gospel of Thomas was likely translated from an earlier Greek or Aramaic version, as many of the sayings in the text appear to have originated in those languages. Best wishes

[@termination9353]

Any Jewish authorship intended to be on par and included with the Old Test cannon would be FIRST written in Old Test Hebrew as a Master or Proof copy. From that first manuscript other copy's are made, even in different languages as needed, but any copy that would be read and discussed among the Pharisees and in synagogues would be in the original Master copy Hebrew.

[@claudetteearle3052]

I have come across information identifying Q as Mary Magdalene.

[@StefanMusicHuntley]

They parted his garments, "clothes" and cast lots upon his vesture. They were using his cloak or "cape" as a place to throw dice. Like playing dice on Superman's red cape, for the rest of his blue clothing. Only it would most likely be white like the rest of the Essenes and Therapeutae, or the shroud of Turin or something like that. A one piece of woven cloth, and very very expensive.

[@Thesortvokter]

They behaved rather strangely back in the day... 😕

[@cheryldeboissiere1851]

“Once thought”, really? Panarion says the Ebionites are using a Hebrew version of Matthew missing the first three chapters which include the Virgin Birth and vacationing in Egypt. Now where do you suppose they arrived at such a different book that only lacks a certain starship and maybe a guy who shoot webs? If Super-man arrives with Lois Lane, they can actually turn it into a proper comic.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

I'm not sure how relevant the scratchings on a wall and the four beasts of Revelation have anything to do with anything but a whole lot of time is surely spent on it.

[@neilhundtoft4873]

You acknowledge that “The first will be last, and the last first.” was a “known saying” (47:52) that was in circulation at the time. Matthew 20 applies this familiar saying to a lesson about God's freedom to be generous beyond merit. Thomas Saying #4 applies this same known saying to a lesson about the blessings coming to those who become childlike. So then, how can Thomas be an “edited and softening” of Matthew when the two authors are not even talking on the same subject?

[@ngmui430]

great comprehensive lecture. but i feel it makes it all the more clear that there was no Q, and instead, Luke was just a rewrite of the rewrite that was Matthew.

[@rolandbrooks386]

Off tipic: Is Mary of Bethany Mary Magdalene?

[@Stadtpark90]

I know, I'm repeating myself - and I really don't care about the likely anachronisms: I see remembrance everywhere of the ancient cataclysm that once destroyed human civilization before. Call it lost ancient civilization, forgotten civilization, Atlantis, Zep Tepi or whatever - this is what Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson and Robert Schoch, and Anthony Perrat and Ben Davidson/Suspicous Observers are talking about. There was a Cataclysm. Fill in the details as you like: Solar Outburst / CME / Micro Nova with possible plasma discharges onto the planets surface; (possibly involving an unlocking and turning over of the Earth's crust seemingly changing the rotation axis; but at least of its Magnetic Poles), there also were comet impacts (Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis), maybe even triggering / accompanied by volcanic eruptions. Things like this might have happened more than once, and there's a risk, that the Cataclysm is on a timer for a cyclical re-occurence on time scales around twice per "Great Year" - (circa every 12k years, and our time is up). (The winged Lion (Leo), Eagle (stand in for Scorpio), Bull (Taurus) and Man (stand-in for Aquarius / The Waterbearer) (and the Lamb itself) are signs of the zodiac: they are representing the calendar of the Great Year / The Precession of the Equinoxes: watch Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock lecture on this; this is also what "Hamlet's Mill" is about). This is also what is remembered (and prophesized) in the Book of Revelation / The Apocalypse. "God gave Noah the rainbow sign / No more water, but fire next time." The cyclical destruction of the world by fire and water was a theme well known to the ancients. There was an antedeluvian civilization. People lived through the Ice Age, there was a Golden Age, a Paradise Lost probably in the warmer interglacial period. We have already been living in a new (mild climate) Paradise ever since the last cataclysm at the end of the ice age: when Revelation 21 says "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away" - this already happened, although it might happen again. We even get new cultural echoes all the time: as Battle Star Galactica says it:"All of this has happened before, and it will happen again. So say we all." - Even Game of Thrones / George R.R. Martin "A song of ice and fire" has the theme in the title; we can't break "the wheel" - it is a cycle: Winter is coming. - Or as the band Journey sang: "Wheel in the sky keeps on turning"... Once you start seeing those echoes in the cultures of the world, you can not unsee them. I could go on and on: INRI in its exoteric meaning means "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews" - but its esoteric (hidden) meaning (for the Rosicrucians and the Alchemists) was "Igne Natura Renovatur Integra": in fire nature / the whole world gets renewed. - Meanings get attached to stories, but stories are there to convey meanings (and hidden meanings) in the first place. Helping not to forget the important / world (over)turning warnings the ancients left us. 32:25 "Ring around the Rosie, Ashes, Ashes - we all fall down." 32:54 "Many of the last will be first." = If you survive the Cataclysm, you will be the last survivors of the old world, and the first inhabitants of the new world. 1:05:15 Thomas 10 "I have cast fire upon the world, and look, I'm guarding it until it blazes." 1:15:05 "When will the rest for the Dead take place, and when will the New World come?" - "What are you looking forward to has come, but you don't know it." While probably speaking about spiritual things, with enough fantasy even that will fit my mundane interpretation...

[@braeutchen41]

@Stadtpark90.....thank you. I knew if I started to comment, it would wind up a treatise.....you are so on point.....👊🏻

[@petuniaprophecy33]

Just putting it out there, Qanon talks about the lost gospels of Q as well as the Bible.

[@Lrasm13]

Who else could predict what happened in advance...Q is certainly Holy Spirit filled....2 and 4 years in advance to the day...love from Jutland

[@klightlightmusic]

How do I leave a donation?

[@Thomasyouareclearandbeau-td4ox]

This looks like the best of the gospel more perlevebel

[@MDK187ULTRA]

In the gospel of Thomas when referring to 5in1 house was this a reference to the holy house consisting of jesus of Nazareth, mary of magdalene 1st born Sarah 2nd born the Antichrist dark prince of the king of the Jews jesus(judah) and 3rd born Joseph? Now I'm not questioning creator God, but why would Antichrist be born of the holy house? Yes this is the jesus that is coming and he will be cast into the abyss for another 1,000 years by the 1st born of the holy house aided by the 3rd born of the holy house I guess it would be part of the great holy war occurring again, over and over without end for eternity

[@jaredt.ridgeway1186]

Question. I always thought Thomas was nicodemus

[@Nooneself]

In the New Testament, the "sword " MIGHT be used as a metaphor for the division and conflict that can arise from these differences. Best wishes

[@youtubeaccount3230]

Yh true although being a messiah would entail war with the romans who was ruling them thus u see jesus telling his men to buy swords, cause a messianic figure most definitely isnt a pacifist figure neither they should be since the romans are occupiers of their land

[@youtubeaccount3230]

I feel Jesus mission was to first get the jews on board with him also teach them things they had gone astray, but same time Jesus told them that the son of man is to come with the kingdom of God, this u find in the book of Daniel about the 4th beast since in the time of Jesus they lived under the 4th beast aka roman empire, and jesus went from town to town to isrealites to give them the good news(gospel) that the son of man is soon to come, however he also told them that it will come from a different nation quoting psalms, he gave parables like the mustard seed where it starts off small then grows big, now majority jews know although hide the fact that God’s Kingdom came to a man in Arabia and established monotheism in many nations started off few hundred followers then grew and it took at out the romans in the 15th century

[@termination9353]

The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.

[@termination9353]

@Gary Allen Comes from the Gospel narrative. Starting with John 21:24 "This is the disciple[whom Jesus loved/ Lazarus] which testifieth of these things, AND WROTE THESE THINGS: and we[Apostles] know that his testimony is true."

[@garywesthoven1745]

@@termination9353sounds like wild conspiracy to me but I am open to any reference materials that substantiate your statement here. What are some sources to back your statement? Thanks.

[@garyhundsrucker7771]

Q could be symbolized by the winged pig because we’ll have it when pigs fly!;)

[@justmagicmostly]

Why does he pronounce Septuagint like that

[@wataboutya9310]

Why is this Gospel of Thomas not in the New Testament?

[@420JRMan]

You're God, I'm God; Earth's our Heaven, or Earth's our Hell; God devide's.

[@marlobardo4274]

Blessed are the poor in spirit means that those who do not amass spiritual wealth in the form of beliefs that bolster the spiritual ego are the ones able to keep their inner world frugal become thereby enabled to partake in a more subtle and noble soul-peace one that surpasseth understanding. Only those poor in spirit can seated on camelback pass through the eye of the needle... to accomplish this requires letting go of all spiritual golden candelabracadabra.

[@pointsnorth3924]

Atishoo, atishoo in Scotland.

[@TolkienBird8]

You will soon find out both Qs are completely related.

[@MJ-lx8pc]

interesting

[@user-rg9yz5ou4y]

Revelation took the four living creatures from Ezekiel in the "Old Testament."

[@christinemarshall7777]

The Ark of the Covenant was the New Testament they were carrying around the future

[@SteveSmith-kd9if]

This ninja sounds just like S.P.!!!

The answer to "why Q was lost" is the best explanation about the religious books... It's worldly.... It's simple.... It's provable....

[@vancebradler1717]

Best part of being conspiracy terrorist is.... Not having myocardias

[@Rannsack]

the author of Mark was Greek, and you claim he is inserting text from Psalms into his gospel. But if Mark was using the LXX as his scripture, how would he know the Aramaic of "Eloi, Eloi. lema sabachthani"? He didn't get it from the LXX. Mark also uses other Aramaic phrases such as "talitha koum". Which is better than whoever was writing Acts ("Luke") because by then, according to Morton Smith, they dont know what "talitha" means anymore, although they know it is said when raising a girl from the dead, and they think it is a girls name, Tabitha (even tho in the passage she also has a name Dorcas). So I think Mark must have had some Aramaic oral tradition or something which was informing lines like "Eloi, Eloi. lema sabachthani" You also mention the baptism, but that is one event in the life of Jesus that has a high historicity, mostly due to the criterium of embarrassment.

[@Rannsack]

@Gary Allen Jesus being baptized by John the baptist doesn't make sense if Christ is a sinless supreme being. Historically, it makes a ton of sense because Jesus was initiated through baptism into John sect and then when John was beheaded, Jesus took over Johns followers. It makes sense historically, it doesn't make sense as a mythology. But i'm really more interested in an answer to my first question. John Hamer claims Mark was using the LXX to "fill in the gaps" but that doesn't explain where he got the Aramaic from. I think it is likely any Aramaic tradition involving sayings of Jesus are likely historical.

[@iakona23]

@@Rannsackexcellent comments. Thank you.

[@jamesedgewood4643]

The Book of Revelation is problematic in many ways? Maybe you should clarify this.

[@christinemarshall7777]

well the first word in the Bible had JESUS inside of it, I'll explain... Genesis 1:1 IN BEGINNING! THAT PHRASE IN BEGINNING IN HEBREW IF YOUR FAMILIAR WITH THE LANGUAGE OR NOT IT HAS 22 LETTERS THAN 22 SYMBOLS THAT MATCH EQUALL TO UPHOLD THE TRUTH. SO THE WORDS IN BEGINNING REPRESENTS 5 HEBREW SYMBOLS THAT SAY...THE CHRIST, DIED,BY HIS OWN HAND, FOR THE WORLDS DEBT, ON THE CROSS. SO THE WORDS IN BEGINNING ACTUALLY MEANS INSIDE OF BEGINNING IS THE CHRIST. THE ONE WHO DIED ON THE CROSS, FILLING THE ONLY SLOT THERE WAS TO FILL BY GOD HIMSELF SETTING A SLOT FOR HIMSELF. INSIDE OF THE WORDS IN BEGINNING ALSO REVEAL JESUS TO BE THE FIRST ALPHA AND OMEGA THE LAST. JESUS WHO IS YESHUA. So.. WHEN CHRIST CAME HE NOT ONLY PRECIEVED GODS WORD HE BECAME GODS WORD WHEN HE DUPLICATED AND BUILT ON HIS OWN WORD, WHICH EXPANDED THE TRUTH IN THE COMPREHENSION OF HUMAN MINDS, BY CREATING MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE,JOHN AND ACTS WHERE HE ROLLED THE STONE AWAY FROM RITUALISTIC SACRIFICES ON THE PHYSICAL ALTER AND CHANGE IT SO THAT WE COULD WORSHIP HIM GOD WITH A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP ON THE SPIRITUAL ALTER OUR MINDS, SO THAT WE WOULD MAKE PERSONAL SACRIFICES FOR THE GREATER GOOD AND THAT DROVE lucifer called satan the devil into darkness where he worships god in secret groups called secret society's where they sacrifice on the physical alter still to defy god. Human SACRIFICES are the high level SACRIFICES. I can go on and on if you want me to. I know alot of Bible secrets you can look up what's the Bible or pigmintation of skin have anything to do with it? First surface man was Black man including Jesus who was a high priest of the black peoples GOD and became the CHRIST. YACUB BRED YOUR FALLEN STATE TO BE MORE FALLEN WHEN HE played satan by playing GOD which was an ABOMINATION OF GOD SO JESUS CAME AND TOOK THE BATTLING YACUB AND YASMALS 720° reversal an ABOMINATION and REORDERED us out of disorder to become allign with GODS ORDER called his word. So JESUS killed the image of pigmintation and or skin with his image so that you would worship skin or pigmentation like the inner earth society was all colors together before the black headed scientists decided from them and isolated off as in the inner community also have blood lines of the black scientists and there elders who are blue and the darker black you'll ever see. You been tricked and told to hate your own image under GOD LOVE ALL. HATE ANOTHER YOU HATE YOURSELF. The First being is unknown to even them yet were all here down then and now and the future is in GODS IMAGE TRUTH TO LIGHT FROM THE HEART OF ABSOLUTE POWER OF GODS CONSCIOUSNESSculture has nothing to do with the one true GOD ARE YOU A PERSON, DO YOU CARE, THEN WE ARE THE SAME. HAVE YOU LIED? HAVE YOU STOLE? HAVE YOU LUSTED AFTER ANOTHER WOMEN? THEN WE ARE THE SAME. THATS WRONG BECAUSE YOU DONT NEED TO STEAL GODS WORD WILL FEED YOU HIS SPIRIT WILL GUIDE YOU. AND YOU WILL NEVER GO WITHOUT. YOU HAVE THE POWER OF GOD HERE ON EARTH STAND UP AND SHOCK EVERYONE WITH YOUR TRUTH YOUR RIGHTOUSNESS NOT EXCUSES. WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS AND WE DESERVE WHAT GOD HAS INSTORE FOR US. GOODNESS AND LOVE FOR EACH OTHER AND TO ELIMINATE ALL THE EVIL BS OVER MONEY and greed and withholding knowledge that's not GOD AND THATS WHAT YOU HAVE FOR NOW. I GREW UP POOR IM FROM MUSKEGON MI LOOK IT UP IT WAS #1 MURDER CAPITAL OF AMERICA IN 2017 AND ON THE LIST OTHER. JUST SAYING IM AT WHERE PEOPLE SAY IS THE BOTTOM AND THE LORD GOD HAS MADE ME FEEL LIKE THE RICHES MAN IN THE WORLD SO IT DONT MATTER. I WAS BEFORE MY CLEAR TRANSFORMATION IN ONE MOMENT I SWEAR I JUST HAD IT LIKE BOOM. BUT I BEEN TO PRISON TWICE AND MUCH MORE JUVENILE BEFORE FOR GUNS, DRUGS. AND I DID IT BIG KILLED EM WAS DOING GREAT 👍 SO THEY SAY. I BEEN A GANG BANGER FOR 20 YEARS, IVE HAD SAFE CTACKINGS AND MOBB BRUTALITY, REAL ROUGH AND I AINT LYING JACK. BUT I ALWAYS HAD A GOOD HEART AND SIMPATHIZED WITH MY PAIN OF MY ATTITUDE AND HOW IT WAS, INSTEAD OF MY APTITUDE AND HOW I CAN BE INSTEAD. IT WAS SO ROUGH WHERE IM FROM THEY TEACH EBONICS TO EVERYONE IN SCHOOL. WHITE CULTER WAS NOT ONLY SLAVES IN EGYPT THEY AT ONE POINT IN AMERICA WE HAD MORE WHITE SLAVES THAN BLACK SLAVES AND OR ALL OTHERS CONBINED. SO THATS THE TRUTH NOT WHAT YOU BEEN TAUGHT TO THINK WHERE EVER YOU ARE FROM IF YOUR NAME REPRESENTS WHERE YOU ARE e you from correcting you I will pre correct you so you don't have to go thru the back and forth. Who are the white people in the Bible? THEY were the jews they call the Egyptian slaves, that the black rulers defied thier own GOD ,called knowledge. And they not only made white people they enslaved them and controled them and made us fight each other and more. But they knew the lord a decendant of Abraham. He a Jewish/Islamic man adopted GODS TRUE WORD AND HAD FAITH WHICH lead Egypt to free GODS PEOPLE AND THE SLAVES WHICH MOST SLAVES BELIEVE IN GOD IN THOSE DUNGOENS, BUT SOME DIDNT AND THEY STARTED TO REBELL AGAINST PHARAOH'S RULE BY DEVELOPING SLIGHT OF HAND AND TRICKERY TO SNEAK FOOD TO FEED THIER PEOPLE AND PASS ALONG KNOWLEDGE AND THEY WERE RELEAST FROM EGYPT IN THE GUISE OF THE FREED SLAVES WHO WERE GOD'S PEOPLE BUT WHO SOME WENT AFTER THE RED SEA AND WENT INTO THE DESERT FOR 40 YEARS BUT THE OTHERS SPLIT DEFYING GOD WHO DILIVERED THEM TOOK THIER FREEDOM AND FLEED INTO THE EUROPEAN MOUNTAINS AND FORMED A SECRET SOCIETY IN A SOCIETY CALLED THE ILLUMINATI. SO THATS THE DEAL BUT WHEN JESUS CAME TO DELIVER THEM THEY KILLED THE STATE KILLED HIM. THE TRUE KHAZARIAN JEWS ARENT THE JEWISH PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE WHITE ZIONIST CUBES ON THIER HEAD, THEY ARE GATES TO THE THROWN OF THE SECRET OF THE CUBE THE BLACK SECRET RULERS WEAR THE CIRCLE ON THIER HANDS AND THIER HEADS, THE CIRCLE HEADS ARE BLACK THE CUBEHEADS ARE WHITE, YASMAL AND YACUBS IDEOLOGYS BEING RESURRECTED TO CAUSE EVIL IN THIS WORLD BUT ITS ONLY KILLED WHEN JESUS RETURNS. THEY HAVE JOINED TO KILL ALL PEOPLE BY MINIPULATION TO REVERSE WHAT IS TO RESTORE AN ABOMINATION THAT GOD HIMSELF HAS CORRECTED

[@suelingsusu1339]

If one did not know better, hearing you talking about Q with such vehement assurances, one would think that you have read Q thoroughly and have it in your hand.... wow... how on earth did you become so sure and assured of what is said in Q the hypothetical conjectured thing that never existed and does not even have a hint for its existence??? Amazing legerdemain!!!

[@Kwisatz-Chaderach]

That's what I'm saying.

[@MarianAdams-qk1dp]

Q anon followers don't have myocarditist

[@Lrasm13]

Amen sister 😅

[@jamesedgewood4643]

Is this man actually a Christian? I would prefer a Christian analysis of these texts rather than a secular one.

[@martindavis2295]

Yes, I was shocked at some of the claims he has made, especially saying that the gospels are not historical and miracles such as Jesus walking on the water were”reversed engineered” into the story many years later. So in effect it is all fairy takes and BS made up in someone imagination. Then why bother?? TheGospel becomes a rioping good yarn on par with Lord if the Rings or Narnia but certainly NOT God’s a intervention into human affairs.

[@clareryan3843]

Then you should search for one (or ask God?) maybe🤔 Jesus thought you needed to hear this perspective? Lots of things to think about😂

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

The term "Christian" is used a total of three times in the New Testament - twice in the Book of Acts. The term "Christian was used far lett than "The Way". Paul used the term "The Way" (actually, "this Way") once in the Book of Acts but never in any of his writings that we have. Peter used the term "Christian" once. Why does this unbeliever consider the term "Christian" important? The New Testament doesn't.

[@youtubeaccount3230]

So in the first 19:00 minutes they have the 1 Corinthians 15:3-5 up well why did paul say then appeared to peter then the 12 when peter is part of the 12 and also Judas died it is clear paul did not either know about Judas or Judas is a made up figure that the writer mark added cause in the ending of mark which was obviously written later it said that Jesus appeared to the 11 mark 16:4

[@andrewsuryali8540]

By the time Paul was writing, the organization of the Poor of Jerusalem may have changed to more resemble what the Qumran Community Rules scroll describes. That is, there was a master/teacher (James, replacing his brother Jesus), a chief disciple (or two, Peter and John), and twelve "ministers" representing the twelve tribes. It may have been the "standard" organization of apocalyptic sects even outside the Essenes.

[@termination9353]

The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.

[@termination9353]

@Joseph for real, John 21:24 "This is the disciple[whom Jesus loved/ Lazarus] which testifieth of these things, AND WROTE THESE THINGS: and we[Apostles] know that his testimony is true."

[@termination9353]

@Joseph Well what does John 21:24 say in original Latin translated into English for me/us? Says the same thing.

[@termination9353]

@Joseph HELLO? So what does John 21:24 say from the original Latin?

[@unitedstatesdale]

Listening to smart people is refreshing. Im on the lower level of IQ. 😊

[@christinemarshall7777]

They weren't criminals in rome they only put people against the state, aka revolutionaries only bore the cross, and for them to do JESUS this was ironically iconic and. And was perfectly planned BY GOD FOR THE CHRIST TO BECOME GOD AND IS GOD. Judas and the other 11 apostles were childhood friends they all grew up together

[@chriseliothernandez]

It would make sense perhaps for Q to have been destroyed along with all the Greek versions of Thomas for heresy simply because they were indistinguishable to latin speakers.

[@owlnyc666]

Liberal Scholarship Conservative Scholarship😉

[@christinemarshall7777]

in order to tell you the secret, I have to explain this first... when JESUS traveled, he always traveled to the same place a different time, and the apostles had different APOSTOLIC positioning and annointments for each trip. When JESUS went to Mt. Hermon it was 6 days his first trip which he revealed 6 fallen angels names and how to recognize it call it up and cast it out so he then traveled 6 days his 2nd trip naming 6 fallen angels and 8 days his 3rd trip revealing 8 fallen agels names and he on each of these trips taught and explosed 200 total fallen angel demons high principalitie law , which each day he was there he named a fallen angel by name he in the story teaches the way to kill 200 fallen angels anywhere they may manifest. So we have a hidden message by JESUS in the order he gave the names of the 20 fallen angels names and the meaning behind their name in order JESUS gave its a 10 percent message of the 200 angels it's 10 percent that were names in order.... I'm sending it next messagethis is the hidden message of the 20 fallen angels named by JESUS in order on his 3 trips which people call it a contradiction story not realizing there different stories of different trips made the same way same people most times but different APOSTOLIC positioning and titles and anointing. Fallen angels names and orgins of meaning. 1.) Simijagga means = cognitional 2.) Simyazazz = thinking 3.) Ericiiba = that which will 4.) Rameal = begin 5.) Cocabiel = the process 6.) Tamiel = reversing 7.) Rahmel = design 8.) Daniel = from GOD 9.) Ezequel = to be reordered 10.) Baraquiel = new design 11.) Asseiel = pathogen 12.) Aramoss = protein 13.) Batteriel = beginning 14.) Zakaeil = kingdom 15.) Esekiel = new government 16.) Samsapiel = back to heaven 17.) Setareil = to rule 18.) Tureiel = humanity 19.) Jonjaiel = reset 20.) Seriel = deception So it's there but listen to it when you read it JESUS says... cognitional thinking that which will begin the process reversing design from GOD to be reordered new design pathogen protein beginning new government back to heaven to rule humanity reset deception... that's the message isn't that something awesome... So this is the master plan of satan

[@christinemarshall7777]

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven yeah that's true but needles were evented then with thread and eye of a needle in those days were archways that divided Townsend Town so yeah Rich Man can get into heaven you'll just have to stoop lower

[@vancebradler1717]

Lost gospel of Q is about the great awakening, totally tied into conspiracy theory.

[@martindavis2295]

Seems to me you are implying that the gospels have no historical validity at all. It was all retrospective creativity and Mark’s part and the others took it up and ran with it. So why bother with this Christ?? If it is all smoke and mirrors or”cunningly devised fables” then this Nazarene is a tissue of fiction. At least I can be comforted that the Buddha gave us some pretty clear directions as to overcome the futility of human existence.

[@420JRMan]

Q-asstrophies.

[@user-rh9ow5cg7d]

Good lecture as always - terrible audio as always - please consider replacing your sound man

[@CeanStrauss]

Dang it. From the title I thought this somehow related the holey bibble to Qanon nuttery. 😢

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

The gospels contain "serious anachronisms? Okay, what are they? They hurl these accusations (because they are agents of the Accuser) and then just let them go unsupported. These disingenuous deceivers do not have anything other than "because I say so" behind their arguments. A "serious anachronism" would be if the gospels said, "Jesus got in his car and drove off." There is none of that kind of thing in any of the gospels.

[@quakers200]

Of course when you make stuff up you can create other problems so crying out to God ... Why have you forsaken me... You may have fulfilled something in the OT but now Jesus ( God) is asking himself a question that, being all knowing, he knew the answer to. Jesus praying to have the burden lifted from him is another example of Jesus being out of character for being coequal with God. Whole groups of Christians solved these dilemmas in the words of Jesus giving him attributes from wise man. Son of God, one of the prophets to God walking around with just an appearance of man in the eyes of people. Just my opinion.

[@Moe-xg6bu]

Sure as hell all self proclaimed people proclaimed proves only unknown unproclaimed deniable false prophets if anything best know it teal quick or false prophets

[@user-rg9yz5ou4y]

The logical conclusion of your hypothesis the THE narrative of Jesus life has been constructed from verses in the Septuagint, rather than from any actual events in Jesus life,is that Jesus was simply a theological construct rather than an actual human being. Although you deny this, this is the logical conclusion that follows from your Septuagint hypothesis. Either that , or that the "real" Jesus" life had nothing to do with the descriptions of him in the gospels.-For example, perhaps he was a only a guerilla warrior who raised an armed rebellion against the Romans, and had used his claim to be the Messiah as a recruiting device, as had several earlier Messianic claimants from Galilee. Even the accounts in the gospels that Jesus was an itinerent preacher and faith healer who attracted a large following as a result of his seemingly miraculous cures might have been derived from the accounts of the miraculous cures Elijah and Elisha in the Hebrew scriptures. The real problem with the Septuagint theory is that Jesus inspired a fanatical devotion from his followers that persisted for many years after his death, and persists to this day. This would only have been possible if Jesus had a uniquely charismatic personality that inspired such extreme devotion even after he died. None of the earlier messianic "candidates" inspired this sort of fanatical devotion and fervent belief that they would return from the dead in the near future.

[@Moe-xg6bu]

Who proclaimed you three times over before you born ? What you shown no eye has seen heard what no ears ever heard given what no human has ever been given ? Why running mouth ? Best stop or know law

[@williambranch4283]

The answer is obvious, but we can never admit the fabrications of the Church Fathers ;-)

[@ChosenOne1sForTrump]

christ the christos is at the top of the spine and head .. why the kingdoms within face palm

[@DrWrapperband]

Q Gospel is not a preposterous conspiracy theory? Ha Ha Ha Ha, thanks I nearly fell of my chair.

[@rktbnelson]

Today's Q is wrong? 😂😂😂😂 You need to wake up

[@neilhundtoft4873]

The Gospel of Thomas is not gnostic! To treat the document as such makes no more sense than calling Bach “proto-romantic”. The fact that subsequent music from the romantic period was heavily influenced by Bach's compositions does not identify Bach as a participant in that movement. Of course, a strong teaching will influence subsequent developments toward any number of possible, and even inconsistent, innovations. But to identify the source with what it has influenced is anachronistic. If we replace the gnostic reading of Thomas with a teaching of presence, of living in the here and now, we find its insights expressed in plain language. “Recognize what is right in front of you, and all that is hidden will be revealed!” (Saying #5) This is an appeal to get real, to drop all of the gnostic hidden mystery stuff! Acknowledge the miraculous that is smacking us in the face! What is more miraculous than our common, everyday experiences of enjoying the perfume and beauty of flowers, of hearing birds singing, in being attentive to care and compassion toward others? That's the point. If this isn't miraculous, what could count?! Ever since Irenaeus, associating Thomas with gnosticism has been the preferred way for the orthodox to gaslight the document and to dismiss it without serious examination. It appears to me that little has changed. Peace.

[@termination9353]

The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.

[@adriandeutrom9092]

He states that the 4 apostles new Jesus, but it was only two of them , namely John and Matthew, who were Jesus's disciples . Mark and Luke were not disciples of Jesus.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

We know that the gospel was preached but we also know that these historical events were written down shortly after the church got stated in 33ish A.D. The story of Jesus didn't spend a whole lot of time floating around as a bunch of poetry. It was nailed down rather quickly on paper. The author of Luke's Gospel says that his sources were both written and oral. He called them eyewitnesses. Luke's Gospel was written shortly after the church got going - probably after Paul's conversion but could have been earlier (Acts 9 and before).

[@munbruk]

Completely wrong about the Quran.

[@johnmcgrath1929]

This is ridiculas.the professor keeps going on about how the Romans Executed Christ!!! when it was at the behest of the Jews... the elders of zion if you want. and that is where the killing of Christ lays. if one is to go by the Gospel not as one can make it up as they go a;ong to suit their own agenda,