Lost Bible: The Didache

Written sometime between the mid-1st century and early 2nd-century AD, the Didache (or “Teachings of the Twelve Apostles”) is one of the most important early Christian writings to have been left out of the New Testament Canon. The text includes some of the earliest practical rules for the emerging institution of the church but describes a decidedly primitive stage in Christian development. John Hamer of Toronto Centre Place will review the text and consider the community that produced it. Why was it left out of the Bible, and does it have anything to teach Christians today?
Save the date and join us live to participate in the discussion and to ask questions to our lecturer during the Q&A.
Browse our catalogue of free lectures at www.centreplace.ca/lectures
Your generous support allows us to offer these lectures at no cost. Please consider a making donation (tax deductible in the US and Canada) at www.centreplace.ca/donate ️
#lecture #cofchrist

[@nickstone3113]

I am orthodox greek and find these seminars like fresh water in a desert. Thank you 🎉

[@icebreaker09video]

i stumbled upon these lecutres during my usual spiritual search and, as always, God answers the Heart of the Sincere Seeker...

[@angelafeldman5903]

Yes, God answers!😊

[@sammyandoliver7522]

Same.

[@journeylife7491]

Good luck

[@user-xq2zn8bu9q]

You think so...?

[@biffboffo]

@@user-xq2zn8bu9qI sure don’t. The Bible seems like an editorialized and unreliable word-of-mouth written by folks who had an agenda. Nonetheless, I’m fascinated by it and I’m keeping an open mind as I do with all religions. Once I consume all these awesome lectures, I’m going to ask questions.

[@jessicaboyd7498]

I’m so glad you have moved the q&a to the end. I love your lectures. You articulate each subject so well. I have learned so much from you. Thank you John Hamer!

[@John-nz6jb]

Video would be better and more viewable without the speaker being shown 😂. Seriously.

[@sammyandoliver7522]

@ John, No.

[@Findmylimit]

Third lecture, just wanted to say thanks. You have given way to yet another bridge. Not much further left to go

[@AndreaWKR]

1:54:00 "They think the Bible fell from the sky" This has been my experience at many churches that I have visited. I like how you articulate your thoughts.

[@evangelicalsnever-lie9792]

It's because red hat churches are filled with adult children. _Magical Thinkers._

[@mercster]

Sounds like you visited lame churches?

[@evangelicalsnever-lie9792]

@@mercster How many of the approximate 350 claims of Magical Woo in the bible do you claim are 100% absolutely proven to be true, and happened, with; objectively demonstrable, independently verifiable, consistently testable, repeatable-on-demand, measurable & falsifiable credible professional scientific evidence❓ If you don't have that, and you don't, then you don't even have a hypothesis of how those claims are performed, step-step-by-step; let alone a published working thesis that can survive the no-nonsense microscope of scientific scrutiny. All you have is hearsay. If you believe in any superstitions or religion, unless you can credibly prove your lofty biblical and presuppositional so-called "god" claims, which were they true, would be the highest claims that can be made, if your cant produce commensurate lofty evidence, then you're a Magical Thinker. And if you are, why are you ashamed to just simply admit it?

[@mercster]

@@evangelicalsnever-lie9792 Considering your rambling screed has already ascribed to me claims, hearsay, and shame, I'll leave you to it. Talk about magical thinking, you seem to be able to read minds. 😏

[@evangelicalsnever-lie9792]

@@mercster So we can observe that you can't show us that any of the 350 claims of Magical Woo in the bible are true, nor can any be relplicated on demand or a workable model be shown. And yet when asked if you believe in any of it, you dodge the question and refuse to say. Either you're a Magical Thinker and you're proud of it, or you're a Thinker Magical and ashamed to admit it and own it. I can see how it would be embarrassing to admit belief in things like; talking snakes, magic trees, talking donkeys, talking burning bushes, talking clouds, 900 year old men, bread falling from the sky, and water-walkin' magical woo wizards who zap trees, part seas, and poof magical party wine into existence… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@ptwlk]

Can see that you put in a lot of effort in preparing these materials. Thank you very much and I learned so much.

[@chutspe]

Funny, how those miracle healers and televangelists all deem themselves apostles with the authority to cast out evil spirits, but they never observe the don't-own-anything-rules. A real headscratcher...

[@andrewsuryali8540]

Some of them technically do. They make damn sure to register that private jet as property of the church.

[@stustig9430]

It's not a head-scratcher, they are false - Depart from Me, you who practise lawlessness

[@janedarc7731]

“They never observe the don’t-own-anything-rules.”?😂 Please, those charlatans don’t just not observe that rule, they annihilate it by preaching that their parishioners need to hand over everything they own, so they themselves can live like kings! And, expecting those grifters to “cast out evil spirits”, would be the same as asking the Antichrist to perform an exorcism👺🤣

[@clairebeane3455]

@@janedarc7731They absolutely adhere to the prosperity doctrine, calling it gospel and canonizing it in the hearts and minds of their followers. It is, of course, a false doctrine and we all know what the biblical text says about their doctrines of demons. 🤔

[@cross-eyedmary6619]

I am equally as sick with the prosperity gospel but please, can you share where is the rule don’t own anything?

[@notanemoprog]

A great presentation of Didache. Thank you!

[@TheSulross]

by far best study I've had on the Didache

[@EdwardMcPhail-em2bj]

I down loaded the public domain version from an old library book that was posted

[@stephanyfaycohen3842]

Re: 1:26:52 "Be on your guard against spongers".... In 1984 I decided to return to my homeland of Jamaica. I thought I was returning to the loving arms of my extended family that raised me since birth. I had no money as I was unemployed. I had no real skill/trade. I had a small suitcase and one pair of sandals. Things quickly broke down and I found myself shifting from one place to another, one day and night at a time. I found the whole thing so frustrating and upsetting. I felt like a wandering Jew. At one point a spirit voice said loudly in my head: "Follow!" I took this to be God. So I followed, not know where I was being led. I had to clean a man's house, in return for his offer of shelter for one day and night. I felt so humiliated and humbled at the same time. I ended up in Kingston, Jamaica, and came across a man who, unbeknown to me at the time, had raped a young child in my village. I later found out that because I had told my aunt that I had seen him, he was arrested and imprisoned. I hasd no idea he was "wanted". It is only through watching this video that I am recognising that I was on a DIDACHE mission.

[@exoplanet11]

Jon Hamer's charts are amazing! 13:20 21:11

[@glenn-younger]

Thank you for this talk. It gives a deeper sense of the early days of Christianity. The thing that struck me is how scam artists were around then just as they are around today. Bless them for they know not the ramifications of what they do. Sigh.

[@imgentleman9183]

so Islam came

[@helenr4300]

Protestants and the Bible - the mainstream protestants are not as tied to the set text or infallible Bible as listed, that refers more to fundementalist evangelicals. Would we as Methodists take on additional texts? I think it would come down to not enough time to cover the Bible as we have it, not that it is too holy to add to. For us monthly communion reflects that those formally authorised to lead communion generally are caring (in the UK) for multiple churches. Thus I as minister lead communion every week, but each congregation receives it monthly. Anglicans (Episcopalians) in UK do try to have communion every week which leads to priests dashing every sunday from parish to parish with no time to talk to people, as they too increasingly care for multiple congregations

[@andrewsuryali8540]

I think John's context needs to be explained. The Community of Christ is part of the Mormon movement and used to be called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (RLDS). As such their understanding of scripture is different. They include the Book of Mormon and their own version of the Mormon Doctrines and Covenants into their scriptures. The whole movement started with the addition of scripture, so the tradition of adding and removing scriptures is baked into their movement. Every World Congress, the COC debates whether to remove or add elements to their existing canon of scriptures. The most persistent motion has been to "normalize" the COC by removing BoM and demoting D&C to guideline status. Persistent but not popular, as this motion has always been defeated in the COC's history. However, they do keep editing the D&C in the same way other Christian churches would edit their guidelines or creeds. This would be normal behavior if not for the fact that D&C is scripture to the COC. So in that sense, John's church keeps adding and removing scripture all the time.

[@h.m.mcgreevy7787]

Meh... the Protestants took out a few books from the original bible, The Catholic Bible. Mind you, "Catholic" is Greek and means, "universal" and book titles need to be capitalized.☘️🙃☘️

[@helenr4300]

@@h.m.mcgreevy7787 The Bible is a collection of books yes. The process of deciding which were included was not straightforward. Yes some were taken away at the Reformation by protestants. However there were also books that the Catholic Church rejected and other branches of the church include. The Ethiopian Church has the widest selection and the biggest Bible, but even that doesn't include all of them. The Jews decided their selection of books for the Hebrew Bible, what we call the old testament, after the church was already using a Greek translation of an earlier collection. So we don't even have the same collection of books in our OT as the Jews consider their scriptures. Even with the most books in our Bibles we tend to focus on a few such as the gospels. That all Christians share and guides us in faith. Has anything you have read in the Catholic books, not in other Bibles, shaped or reshaped what you learn as doctrine in the rest of the texts? Rather than divide over how many books should be in the Bible, the challenge is learning together how to live out the basic call of Jesus, feeding hungry, healing sick, welcoming strangers etc. When we have all mastered that then we can worry about the rest of the books

[@helenr4300]

@@andrewsuryali8540 I am aware of the context, I was merely quoting mine, and how not all protestants = evangelicals, especially regarding infallibility.

[@h.m.mcgreevy7787]

Oh yeah, I am well aware of the Nicene gathering and Constantine shaping the bible to their needs. I enjoy learning about all cultures and overlapping beliefs. Such videos like this intrigues me! ☘️💜☘️

[@renatoguillen1605]

Thank you, pastor for another amazing lecture.

[@VSP4591]

I think we may have the power to thank enough for such amazing lectures. Brilliant lectures.

[@JoeSiegfried]

Wonderful presentation! Thanks for all you do!

[@chrisfreed9806]

This is very useful well presented information. Thank you. Great scholarship.

[@prestonbacchus4204]

You are a very reasonable man, thank you, I will enjoy this.^

[@justinbrat]

Such a wonderful speaker to listen to! 👍👍

[@williambranch4283]

The Didache is essential reading regarding what the NT actually means in a Gentile community.

[@brendafuss9440]

Will be looking for copy

[@salyluz6535]

@@brendafuss9440 Scroll Publishing has them, plus other great resources for a wide variety of Early Church era writings.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

It's easy to find various translation of it online, and it's read in less than 10 minutes.

[@WendyWarren-hq7ne]

I feel that we need to hear all of it good or bad and research Our Lord will lead the way. God Bless 🙏💛

[@brandydinsmore8214]

Anglican, or Episcopalian kept the apostolic succession. Also we go by the three legged stool…scripture, tradition, and reason. So we encourage the reading of other literature and history and discuss what happened in the world at the time of biblical writings.

[@nuggetoftruth-ericking7489]

Great information. Thanks!

[@bonerici]

Thank you pastor

[@kevleppard9119]

Brilliant Lectures! 🕉✡️⚕️☦️☯️☮️💜

[@jonathanjeffreys3007]

Brilliant. Lovely, informal, chatty style backed by superb erudition and specialised knowledge. Masterly, invariably interesting, and easy to listen to. I congratulate you..

[@WhoeverNevermind]

Thank you.

[@rolandbrooks386]

Spiritually directed to you as a seeker of Truth. Any commentary on the Q source; , i found it

[@justinbaker2883]

Interesting to frame one of the reasons for the numerous Christian denominations is a lack of how to run a church written directly into the Bible. Catholicism believes religion is the Book and Tradition. Tradition is where the church running part comes from in their minds. Further thinking about it today there are even denominations splitting even with their policies all written out. Early church was so focused on keeping all Christians under one roof and rooting out heretics, do you think we went too far the other way? Its fascinating to think about

[@markgardner4426]

Very interesting and good to know. Thank you.

[@zelenisok]

You really need to at least put these lectures into a playlist, its not that easy to find them on the channel due to the amount of other videos /lives.

[@Bockdollar-the-Songwriter]

Regarding your discussion of the on the Eucharist, starting at 102:51, in my opinion, this is more just another indication of the overall “Jewishness” of whatever early Jewish-Christian group that the Didache is aimed at. Ehrman in"Misquoting Jesus" gives the “body and blood” statements given at the Last Supper in Mark (considered to be our earliest Gospel) as being a.later interpolation. It’s apparently not found in our earliest Mark manuscripts, per Ehrman! (If they don’t say “body and blood,” I am curious what the earliest Mark manuscripts do say at the Last Supper. Guess I will have to read Ehrman’s more scholarly book "Forged" to answer that question?) Ehrman theorizes that the reason for these Markan Last Supper interpolations was inserted by a scribe that was trying to combat those groups which did not believe that Jesus had a physical body. Ehrman’s theory may be true, but I personally think this goes beyond just that. I think the “body and blood” was added to Mark’s Last Supper to provide more of a Gospel/scriptural basis for the early Church’s Eucharist rite. This interpolation also, I theorize, came at a time when the early Church was trying to make a more definite break from Judaism. For Jews, drinking anyone’s blood - even symbolically - would have been a big “no-no” given the Torah’s kosher dietary rules. Plus, the blessing of the wine first (not bread first) corresponds to a traditional Jewish Seder meal, which always blesses the wine first, again further emphasizing the overall Jewishness. And emphasizing the “wine” as being symbolic of the vine of David (as Jesus was of the lineage of the alleged David) is again emphasizing the fulfilled prophecy of Jesus as Messiah, which would have been very important to any early Jewish-Christian group. Since the pandemic, my daughters and I have had home Sunday School/church at our home (in addition to our watching my church on KZbin livestream), and I have developed our monthly home communion ritual with prayers loosely based on the Didache as part of my own process of practicing a more primitive First Century Jewish-Christian Christianity. Besides, I honestly don’t care for (and never have cared for) all that “body and blood” symbolism any way, and if others want to do that, of course that’s fine and that’s up to them.

[@johnschuh8616]

If you reject the Eucharist out of principle, then you are definitely reading that into the text in opposition to what i said in John 6. IMHO I have always regarded the rejection of the mass as a kind of reversion to Judaism, Look at Zwingli placement of the Bible in the Zurich Church as it would be in a synagogue. The latter being a substitute of the Tabernacle of the destroyed Temple. Of course that might also be a version of the new Jerusalem in The Apocalypse of John, with the WORD as the substitution for the temple, The Bible being the substitution for the Host,

[@jbchoc]

Prechristian rabbinic opinion was that the sacrifice of bread and wine would be the only valid sacrifice in the times of the Messiah, that intuition predates Christ's birth. How this can be when the principles of Judaism demand BLOOD to cleanse sin is food for thought. Check Brent Pitre if you are interested in connecting Temple Judaism and Christianity.

[@johnschuh8616]

@@jbchoc Thank you for reminding me. The Lutheran notion of the Eucharist was, I think, modified by the influence of Melanchthon, who inclined toward Zwingli’s view. Biblical literalism as much as anticlericalism moved other Protestant groups to put a novel “spin” on the mention of the “breaking of the bread” in the New Testament. My impression is that the form of the man as we know it was shaped by the original practice of Christians observing the Sabbath and then Communion on the morning of the first day. After exclusion, Christians combined the two at a separate meeting. That, anyway is consistent with what the is said in the 2nd century as Christians became less secretive about their worship. Just a theory. In any case, 16th century Protestants seem to have little historical understanding of what “mystery” mean to early Christians. They thought they were being primitive when they were in fact modernizers. Like our present crowd of liberal Catholics.

[@cosmicjams9585]

Mithras used bread and wine to celebrate spring. I find validity for taking the sacrament from episodes in Fatima and Garabandal.

[@GaryTalbott]

Thanks!

[@kaygibbs8639]

Greetings John Hamer, I am hoping you could do a teaching on "The Book of the Bee, The Syriac Text" by Wallis Budge (1886, Oxford at the Clarendon Press)? I have read it and can't understand whether it pertains to early Christianity. I'm trying to determine is it legit or should I shelve it. I don't know too much about ancient Syriac manuscripts, but the contents has profound disclosures. Thank you for your reply.

[@TheKrispyfort]

🐝 Bees were analogous to souls collecting knowledge and taking it back to the hive, the 'after-life'

[@dawnbern2917]

Thank you so much for sharing your discoveries about some of these ancient texts, you're balanced analysis, and also I appreciate you pointing out similarities between the mendicants in Christianity and Buddhism.

[@dianefrangie1291]

How would you place the letters of Ignatius of Antioch?

[@Calvin300clan]

Missed the live but love ur lectures

[@howardleekilby7390]

Dear Professor - Thank you for your research. My recent discovery of the Book of Daniel in the Catholic Bible includes writings that are excluded in the KJV. I discover this in the Carmelite order where we read in a call and response manner. The voice in Daniel 3, verses 57-88 is a different voice in the story-telling styles of the earlier Daniel. I find it so refreshing. It’s a loss for the KJV reader.

[@salyluz6535]

And yet- it was originally there in the KJV!

[@frankwilliams4445]

In my opinion we need to go back to the earliest sources for actual truth. There are far too many discrepancies in the English versions and there's hundreds...

[@dougrobinson6683]

What is the earliest date for the gospels that modern scholarship allows for, and what's the latest? And where does the timeline used in this video fall?

[@GeraldM_inNC]

There is no consensus, it's all super-controversial. Furthermore, there's the question of whether these are the earliest gospels or the earliest versions. The Gospel of John in the Bible seems to be an expanded and revised third edition. Some believe the Gospel of Matthew is a Greek revision of the lost Jewish "Gospel of the Hebrews", a view I myself subscribe to. Recently an intriguing book argued that the early patristic references previously thought to have pertained to Mark are to an even earlier version of the Gospel of Peter, which only survives in a later heretical revision. I can't say strongly enough: there is no consensus on the dates of Matthew, Mark and John, and indeed the idea of the 4 gospels being the earliest is dying out. There is also the "Egerton Gospel" (see Wikipedia), the surviving fragments of which are thought to spring from oral sources unrelated to the 4 canonical gospels; it could date as far back as the first century. Luke/Acts, in contrast, seems to be sliding later and later in scholarly perception. Many now place it around 100, which obviously would preclude it is being from Luke the companion of Paul. If it is late and pseudonymous, that it turn would rehabilitate the Pauline authorship of the so-called "pastoral epistles", which have long been doubted because their biographical details are contradicted by Acts. More and more I'm inclined to believe the pastorals are authentic and it is Acts that is biographically inaccurate. However, the objection remains as it always has been: if Luke/Acts is as late as 100, why didn't the author have access to any of Paul's letters?

[@massimogamper232]

Thanks 🕯️🌅

[@lazmotron]

Incredible channel

[@GeraldM_inNC]

1:01:00 - I have visited Catholic churches where they do use the doxology, but as a separate closing formula. After "debtors" the priest add some words of his own, alone, and the congregation then joins him for the doxology. I believe this is the correct way to do it.

[@Sammyandbobsdad]

But didn’t Seneca and Paul go to summer camp together and have all kinds of misadventures battling the rich kids camp from across the lake?

[@monautremoi]

isn't that Brokeback Mountain?

[@paulrhome6164]

I remember Hammurabi as the crotchety old groundskeeper.

[@Sammyandbobsdad]

@@monautremoi did Bill Murray play the camp counselor Cato the slob in Brokeback?

[@ncarmstron]

Meatballs?

[@VSP4591]

This is a joke???

[@baddriddimworkshop]

Hello sir, i thought about you when i discovered something you might allready know about, but that really seems revelant for people thinking the way we think: "the bible read by an asperger", by Mr Allan Arsmann, there's a channel in most of western laguages (i'm french but they did it in english, german and spanish, the guy is from belgium i thnink) on yt. So, didi you notice this, and what do you think? Personally i was astonished how clear and logical everything is presented by the guy... It's like putting a puzzle iun place.

[@brendantannam499]

Is it fair to say that Christian teaching is a bias against other biases? If it is, does that mean bias is thought to lose its negative implication when it is perceived as truth rather than opinion? What does that say about Contrapoints' bias? And what does it say about PVK's bias? I'm reminded of Pontius Pilate's words 'What is truth?' Is it when bias is subsumed into fact? What happens when human thinking is subsumed into godly thinking? Perhaps love happens - and perhaps it manifests itself in kindness. I'm not a believer but I think the scriptures capture the spirit of universal truth when they say 'judge not that you might not be judged' and 'treat your neighbour as yourself'.

[@evangelicalsnever-lie9792]

Really great.

[@gerardmoloney433]

Jesus said, when ever you break bread and drink wine together do it in memory of Him.

[@giovanni545]

Revelation 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

[@MrDoyle07]

The Didache does talk about the “Lord’s Day”, that’s what the Apostles referred to Sunday as. It can be found in the work of the Historian Eusebius and it is also mentioned din the first chapter of Revelations. As for how to run a church… …well, there was only intended to be one. Jesus referred to it simply as “My Church”. It’s still here and still doing as was done then.

[@stevenv6463]

So to continue your digression about Mormonism in the lecture, does your church, the RLDS church, have a concept of the Melchizedek priesthood like the Utah Mormons/LDS?

[@BetWWait]

I think the intro is quite long. It should have been separate. I keep waiting for you to get to the actual book. It's already been 40mins plus in

[@GeraldM_inNC]

Agreed!

[@AnnhilateTheNihilist]

Fascinating. Would love to discuss some points. I’ve tried these things and respectfully I can’t do it, I disagree. Not with everything, with one thing, but if I disagree with one, I can’t love god in this way. If I hear someone say one thing that isn’t true, then it puts in jeopardy everything they’ve ever said. And this is how I am with god and the commandment to love thy neighbour as thyself - a foundational tenet. I have good neighbours, but some are so genuinely toxic I would be wasting my life trying to relate to them. To me, no matter how hard you try, saints even: the fact remains not everyone will like you. It’s human nature, in life you find there are just some people you will never please, ever, and you will waste your life even trying to please or change everybody. Be a good perso, live with love for they neighbour, but they will do things that to even think about just churn you up inside because it’s the antithesis of everything you represent and unfortunately they will be toxic to the degree that you have to ignore it or it makes you sick from stress. In a cosmopolitan world the neighbours will be addicts or freaks or criminals or freaks hidden among good people you wouldn’t know from looking. That’s why we have friends and loving them is more important than neighbours. True friendship is sacred. Platonic sincere friendship is the penultimate pinnacle of existence outside of supreme love (be that wife/husband, animals, god, hobby). I would love to say “ban war, stop killing” but that’s not just unrealistic it’s kinda arrogant to think we have that level of control. Unfortunately it’s similar with domestic violence or bullying or anything humankind does that’s unfair and deplorable… the fact remains just “banning” it is impossible. It’s a dream and perhaps in heaven it doesn’t happen; but here on earth humanity has a tendency to treat each other (especially strangers) with suspicion and the history of the world is a history of love and beauty but also death and horrible war. At least historically. And regarding just praying for “my enemies” I don’t see how that would help (if I had enemies). In the modern age, we don’t just live in small communities, we all know thousands of people over our lifetime, we move often, and mostly don’t ever know our neighbours names…wouldn’t it be insincere to attempt to illuminate them of our worldview? Isn’t that why there is confrontation in the first place? So I can love my neighbour as myself, but only if I let them be and hopefully stay away from them as I want them to not convert or judge me. Can someone help me with this I’m terribly conflicted?

[@hulamei3117]

To thine own self be true.

[@Hat6000]

A person must get out of what they think of as themselves before they can really love others as themselves, because then they begin to understand that we are all imperfect in our understanding and place in the evolution of the soul from life to life. All mistakes are the same thing, they are unloving (spiritual sleep, ignorance, misjudgment, misunderstanding) and we all make them, just because we think the ones we are still making are not so bad as what others are making ignores the fact that we all are here to make those mistake and hopefully grow in ability to love appropriately. You can learn to have compassion on those who are still doing toxic things and love them. Loving them does not mean you have to be subject to their toxicity, like what they are doing, or invite them in as an intimate part of your life. It just means you wish them well and to find the same happiness you are seeking. The word "love" has many meanings that we give it, many of which are very incorrect or confused. It just means that in essence, no matter what you may have been taught or assumed, we are all the same, and all deserve to arrive at the point of real power and joy, for that is our purpose and we wish it for all. Not that we would remove the pain which is our greatest teacher from the toxic ones that comes from their ignorant actions, but we try not to add to it or be glad they are suffering.

[@jdaze1]

You dont have to be best friends with people. Just live in peace with others. There comes a point when you must shake the dust off our feet if others are causing strife, division and are mean or even evil people. Common sense is the answer. Dont allow others to steal your joy and peace.

[@AnnhilateTheNihilist]

@@jdaze1 it says “love the neighbour as thyself” … literally

[@TheKrispyfort]

​@@AnnhilateTheNihilistmaybe they already do. Question is - how do they love themselves?

[@Johnny_RB]

There is no mention of hiarchy in the early church because there was no "church". No preacher or pastor, no deacons, no leadership at all. It was simply people getting together to exchange views and get support from each other. Imagine that if you can.

[@paulnolan4971]

💯

[@MultipleGrievance]

Depends how far back you are talking. There was a body of elders operating already within the first century. Deciding matters of doctrine. That was the entire purpose of Paul's missionary tours & letters. To keep the congregations together in faith. There were individual congregations That operated independently. That's only because of the distances involved at the time. By the second century, Ecclesiastical counsels & synods met with increasing frequency.

[@Johnny_RB]

@@MultipleGrievance I suspect the first "church" only lasted about 2 generations. Maybe 3. Consider the average lifespan then was 35-40 years. So I'm talking about maybe 80 or 90 years then it started to become messed up. Consider how much trouble Paul was having with some of the churches. By that time it was all going downhill.

[@MultipleGrievance]

@@Johnny_RB Biblically speaking, the apostles were described as a sustaining force, and it was prophesied that when they were gone it WOULD all go downhill. The text describes it as Wolves entering the flock. Whether you see this through eyes of faith or not as irrelevant I guess, Because it eventually became the catholic church. And I for one don't believe that was an improvement.

[@Johnny_RB]

@@MultipleGrievance I sincerely concur.

[@tball3198]

Could someone please explain a few verses of the bible to me? Starting with Matthew 16:28, then Mark. 9:1 and Luke 9:27. Then Matthew 10:23, then 23:34-36 and 26:64. And please tell me who Jesus was answering in Matthew 24, then Mark 13 and Luke 21. Also In The Lesson of the Fig Tree in Matthew 24:32, Mark 13:28-31 and Luke 21:29-33; was Jesus not talking to the people of that day and Age or generation? Did Jesus not come at the appointed time to reveal the Kingdom of Heaven to mankind? Would that not make it those people of that time, Age, generation who He/Jesus was talking to and not people in and future time? Who was the book of Revelation written to? 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Is in not said over and over in the book of Revelation that Jesus was coming/returning soon, quickly and that the time was at hand as stated in Revelation chapters 1:1(shortly come to pass), 1:3(for the time [is] at hand.), 1:7;(Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.) Message to the Church in Ephesus Chapter 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. and 2:25 Nevertheless, hold fast to what you have until I come. Message to the Church in Smyrna 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. Message to the Church in Pergamum 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Message to the Church in Thyatira 2: 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. Message to the Church in Sardis 3: 3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Message to the Church in Philadelphia 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Message to the Church in Laodicea 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 22:7 “Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book." 22:10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of prophecy in this book, because the time is near. 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. Philippians 4:5 Let your gentleness be apparent to all. The Lord is near. Hebrews 1"1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 10: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Does any scripture above sound like it was written to people many hundreds or thousands of years in the future? I think not. I believe that the Lord Jesus is the way, the Truth and the life and He did exactly as He said He would do and returned in that generation or age. That being said, then Revelation chapter 20 verses 1 to 8 have already happened and the little season of satan loosed is nearly at its end. The Millennial reign is past and there was a catching away, (incorrectly referred to as the rapture) as explained by Apostle Paul in 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 verses 13 to 18 and 1st Corinthians 15:50 to 58. Concerning the anti-christ.... here is what the Apostle John had to say to the people of that day, age, generation. 1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. (This is how we know it is the last hour). 1 John 2:22 Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and (even now already is it in the world). When John states that the anti-christ is "even now already is it in the world", was he talking about then or now? Matthew 24:5 For many will come in My name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. All one has to do is search the face of the earth at all of the elements that were melted just as Peter said they would and look at all of the beautiful buildings that were built during the Millennial reign of Christ and His saints that satan and his followers have tried to destroy but still some remain. They did not build these with horse and wagon and no power tools as we have been falsely taught. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked...

[@ML-lm2mx]

Paul’s letters give guidance to the church ? Organization

[@kokki2008]

I'm delighted to add my thanks and admiration for John Hamer's lecture. Tremendously impressive work.

[@SecondTake123]

Is there a version of the Bible with all the books and texts?

[@helenr4300]

I believe the Ethiopian Church has the largest version of the Bible with a fullest set of apocryphal texts. But Didache etc as modern rediscoveries would not be included

[@SecondTake123]

@@helenr4300 thanks!

[@kaygibbs8639]

Yes, it's (they're) hidden in the Vatican Library. :)

[@Kwisatz-Chaderach]

Yeah.....its the standard Catholic bible.

[@regizar]

the Codex Vaticanus compiled about year 300-350 and Codex Sinaiticus, both have the most complete collection of the New Testament. The Codex Vaticanus is housed in the Vatican Library while the Codex Sinaiticus has been house the St. Catherine Catholic Monastery in Mt. Sinai. The Ethiopian Catholic Church uses 84 of the books from that Bible while the Roman and Byzantine Catholic uses 73 books, and Protestants only 66.

[@emilbordon1329]

The Bible would haven been too expensive and unwieldy if it wasn’t edited down to an affordable, pocket-sized edition.

[@TheKrispyfort]

And now they're all able to fit on your phone

[@toonmoene8757]

Is there a book with scientific commentary to the Didache ?

[@cinnamondan4984]

Do you mean impartial and secular?

[@antoninospitale4646]

Well done🙂

[@toonmoene8757]

"Give us the bread of the morrow" - note that laborers need the "bread for the morrow" so that they get strength to work.

[@TheKrispyfort]

Reminds me of highschool teachers staying one lesson ahead of the students

[@michaelhezel1941]

Hi John, aside from beeing atheistic myself, I am a big fan of your work. Thanks for the great content you provide to the public. But there is one question that I ask myself since I found out you are a pastor: What do you believe and why? Ir would be really interesting if you did a video about your christology and on what texts you base it. Every episode I watch, your conclusion seems to be, that there are big problems with authenticity. Keep up the good work, Michael

[@Blackadder75]

there are quite a lot pastors that don;t believe in the supernatural, yet find the concept of organized religion a worthwhile human activity, maybe he is one of them.

[@donnamoss7480]

Our ace is the holyspirit bears witness to the truth and reveals the hidden

[@terryhunt2659]

Thank you, Mr Hamer, for a highly informative (and very well presented) lecture on a clearly important document that I had not previously encountered. (Though not a 'believer', I have long been interested in the origins of the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic traditions, amongst others.) Some of the matters you mentioned prompt me to wonder if, when according to later 'Gospel' and other writers, Yeshua/Jesus said X, Y or Z (and assuming he actually did) he was sometimes not formulating original new thoughts or instructions, but rather quoting from the 'rules' of an already existing community or school of thought with which he was acquainted, perhaps Essenes less isolationist than the extremists of Qumran. He certainly seems to have imported Essene-like apocalyptic ideas into a framework of Pharisaic philosophy (I interpret him, wrongly or not, as a 'liberal' Pharisee aligned at least in part with the Zealots resisting the Roman occupation, hence the presence of Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot (perhaps of the Sicarii) among the twelve.)

[@robinstevenson6690]

A SUGGESTION: Please do a follow-up video, focusing on the Didache, addressing the form of Christianity that would have existed if Paul's conversion had never happened. THIS WOULD BE SO TREMENDOUSLY INTERESTING TO CHRISTIANS & MORMONS ALIKE.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

John has previously alluded in parts of other videos and Q&As to what he thinks would have happened in that sort of scenario. Basically: 1. Without Paul's conversion the Jesus movement probably would have stayed Jewish instead of evolving into Christianity. 2. Even if Christianity hadn't been around or even if the accident of Constantine had not happened, a World Religion would have developed in the Roman world anyway, as they were already in an irreversible path in that direction. Without the Jesus movement in its Christian version, maybe we'll instead have the Church of Sol Invictus or Mithras or even Isis.

[@philmartin6627]

Great lecture. You may be interested in knowing that the people you refer to as Mormons are in fact Christians. They are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[@ObjectiveEthics]

My thoughts are that without Paul most Christians would have either been Messianic Jews or Buddhist. It is unlikely to me that they would have turned to Zoroastrianism but perhaps many would have eventually turned to Islam.

[@robinstevenson6690]

@@ObjectiveEthics It's hard to say. I really question whether Paulinism (I don't consider Paul's teachings very consistent with Christ's) was the only way "Christianity" could have "succeeded." There might have been fewer Christians, or some other form of Christianity might have spread like wildfire.

[@MultipleGrievance]

​@@robinstevenson6690 How exactly Were Paul's teachings not compatible with Christs?

[@toonmoene8757]

Hmmm, I would love to look at the 0th letter to the Corinthians ...

[@verygrateful007]

Does it say Sunday or is it Sabbath?

[@christopherjohnson769]

So if there were roughly 82 apostles. were there only the 12 disciples? Or were all of the apostles taught by Jesus as well?

[@Robert_L_Peters]

Is Leviticus 18 the chapter you're going to vote on 'removing from scripture?'

[@helu7777]

Can you tell the difference (discern) between a "scholar" and a man speaking with the Spirit?

[@Blackadder75]

the scholar went to university and the spirit speaker forgot to take his medicine

[@elnegrohotep]

I really hope you guys can do a lecture on the life and the birth of Moses especially different circumstances surrounding his birth.the Jewish Hebrew bible is different from the Bible of king James something interesting I thought some others would like

[@myaccount3402]

How so?

[@brittanyferera5177]

There are several differences. I was just learning about that. Blew my mind.

[@yusufg.1281]

You could just read the Torah and form your own opinions, you know that right?

[@yusufg.1281]

​@@brittanyferera5177 Unfortunately the Didache was not "lost" as the title pretends. It's actually commonly believed it was an earlier Jewish writing which was used by Christians, but hypothetically. Regardless it is obviously related to that genre of literature attributed to Clement of Rome and was known to the early church who simply rejected it because they did not know who really wrote it. Logical. It's not pretended that anyone claimed it was divine revelation just teaching which is kind of what Didache literally means. I find this channel to be unscrupulous.

[@brittanyferera5177]

Apparently there has been lots added, removed and falsifying of things throughout the English translations from what I've been studying and researching.

[@lizamartin4705]

What do you mean? It was clearly the apostle taking notes on his teachings. And telling the story when they walked with him? They didn't "attempt to write a story".

[@josepheridu3322]

I think the Didache has a morality that is not that different from that found in Christianity today.

[@MultipleGrievance]

It's essentially identical. The only real differences between this work and the NT are some practices that were neither encouraged nor enforced by the apostles. Stuff like fasting twice a week. Certain forms of baptism, etc.

[@merryj9976]

Again you have Galatians in orange (unlikely Paul) and Ephesians in yellow (authentic Paul). Please correct that chart. It's at 14:15

[@jdaze1]

Very interesting. But the influence of paganism is also present in this book as it is in the gospels and Paul's writings. The same literalizing of spiritual concepts. I.e. Baptism, Communion, priesthood, etc. That all ended in the 1st century after Jerusalem was destroyed. Men love making physical rules and rituals so they can control the people instead of God being the head of each of us. I believe that those who are born of incorruptible seed are led by the spirit and have no need to listen to any man as noted in i John 2:27. The whole church structure as set up the catholics contradicts the whole point of being born again. We can each know the wisdom and knowledge of YHWH and partake of his divinity, Rev. 21:7. We can enter the most holy place of Communion with the Light of YHWH ourselves. This emphasis seems to be lost in the later teachings and even by Paul. But I did enjoy this class and your insight very much.

[@JesusSojo869]

Father never asked for money Father asked for the 10% of your mind that you give the earth for one day a week. Not money. He said what ever you can afford to seek out your brethren who are down and in need and lift them up the way he has lifted you up.

[@jormajokelainen9089]

Is the word bishop a correct translation for the word episkopus in Didache, Did they speak about bishops like bishops later in the catholic church or men leading the congregation,.......The correct translation will save us and the wrong will lead us badly astray, Using the word bishop in this context is a not correct, if my understanding is correct. I now finally understand what apostles mean. Paul was an apostle but not oneof the twelve, Catholic theology mix it all up.

[@GeraldM_inNC]

Not if Didache is as early as thought. Overseer, presbyter, something like that. "Monarchical episcocy" did not emerge until later.

[@JesusSojo869]

Mathew 23:9. Call no man Father

[@annetteku1]

I just realized, that I Was taught the didache version of the Lords prayer

[@TheKrispyfort]

Same

[@joeychicago6322]

Christians were existing in small but ever growing church's from the underground which led to the importance of the building of the Vaticano!

[@larainehruby1376]

My decades of studies in the Old/New Testament that Believers still use for inspiration, correction of false teachings, and prophetic warnings as to how to prepare for The End, have shown me how completely deluded a man can become as the Bible is corrupted by technology and Religion and well-meaning confused men 17:17 like yourself, dear pastor/shepherd.

[@pierrelabounty9917]

Historical resources are used as such. But they are not directly inspired texts,as our received old testament and new testament texts.

[@hesedagape6122]

The were to keep Torah (Moses) not the Talmud(Jewish Law as defined by the Pharisees). Council of Jerusalem felt only thing concerning the Jewish Ritual Law were the Noahide Laws must be kept. This did not nullify the Torah though. The confusion is the over Grecised New Testament we read. They are quite clear in the Council ruling that Moses is read in the Synagogues(synch Churches)

[@KM-nd9kc]

So what did Hebrews 9:26 mean when it is written ... in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Wouldn't this mean that when the temple was destroyed they were already at the end of the world? The old Kosmos age.. Hmm... And Wouldn't this also prove the parable of the Vineyard had been fulfilled in Matthew chapter 21? Another book is not going to change the fact of these examples of truth. We need to stop reading scripture as if the tribulation and Jesus's vengeance was put on our generation. The generation he spoke to was the generation who killed him, and not ours.

[@yusufg.1281]

Early Christian Fathers INTRODUCTION No document of the early church has proved so bewildering to scholars as this apparently innocent tract which was discovered by Philotheos Byrennios in 1873. The Didache or Teaching (for that is what the Greek word means) falls into two parts. The first is a code of Christian morals, presented as a choice between the way of life and the way of death. The second part is a manual of Church Order which, in a well-arranged manner, lays down some simple, at times even naïve, rules for the conduct of a rural congregation. It deals with such topics as baptism, fasting, the Lord's Supper, itinerant prophets, and the local ministry of bishops and deacons. It concludes with a warning paragraph on the approaching end of the world. At one time this tract was viewed as a very ancient product-as early as A.D. 70 or 90. Recent study, however, has conclusively shown that, in the form we have it, it belongs to the second century. There is, nevertheless, no unanimity among scholars about its exact date or purpose. It has appropriately been called the "spoiled child of criticism"; and it will probably need a good deal more spoiling before its riddle is finally solved. The “Two Ways” The literary problem of the Didache is extremely complex and only the bare outlines can be sketched here. As it stands, the document bears a close relationship to several other early Christian writings. The moral catechism or "Two Ways" of its opening chapters (chs. 1 to 5) appears in a rather different version at the end of the Letter of Barnabas (between A.D. 162100 and 130), and has also come down to us as an independent document in a Latin translation. Much of this material, furthermore, turns up in the fourth century Apostolic Church Order (with many interpolations) and in the Life of Schnudi (fifth century). The connection between all these documents has been very closely studied, and differing opinions are held about it. Some claim that the author of Barnabas invented the "Two Ways."457 Others contend that the "Two Ways" was originally an independent catechism (perhaps Jewish in origin), and that it has been incorporated in different forms by the various compilers.458 Perhaps the most reasonable explanation to account for the many complexities is as follows: The "Two Ways" was an independent catechism current in several versions,459 of which three have come down to us. None represents the original in its pure form. Barnabas’ is the earliest version we possess, but it suffers from displacements, and here and there the author has freely rendered his source in his own style.460 The second form is that found (with minor variations) in the Latin, the Apostolic Church Order, and the Life of Schnudi. This has preserved the original order, but it displays an ecclesiastical tendency461 and has interpolated a further section (= Did. 3:1-6, commonly called "the fences"462). The final form is that in the Didache. It is distinguished by the addition of yet another insertion-sayings from the Gospels and other sources (chs. 1:3 to 2:1). Date and Place of the Didache The first five chapters of the Teaching, then, represent a late form of an original catechism into which the Didachist has 163inserted en bloc and not very neatly463 some distinctively Christian sayings. They betray a knowledge of Matthew and Luke, and one is clearly derived from the Shepherd of Hermas (ch. 1:5 = Man. 2:4.-6), which was written about A.D. 100. Another indication of the date of the Didache is to be found in ch. 16, where a citation from the Letter of Barnabas appears (ch. 16:2 = Barn. 4:9). There can be little doubt that we are dealing with a second century document which reveals a wide canon of Scripture, including Barnabas and Hermas. The terminus ad quem is to be set by the quotations from the Teaching in a Syrian church order called the Didascalia. This dates from the early third century. That the Didache comes from Alexandria464 is suggested by several factors. The "Two Ways" was in circulation there, for the Letter of Barnabas and the Apostolic Church Order come from that locality. It is possible, but not certain, that Clement of Alexandria knew our Didache.465 The Teaching's liberal attitude toward the New Testament canon, apparently including Barnabas and Hermas, bespeaks Alexandria. Furthermore, up to the fourth century the Teaching was highly regarded in Egypt, itself hovering on the verge of the canon, and being mentioned by Athanasius as suitable for catechetical reading (Festal Letter, ch. 39). Then again, Serapion of Thmuis (fourth century) has a quotation from the Didache in his Eucharistic prayer. In view of the conservative nature of these prayers, this is a weighty factor. The Church Order of the Didache

[@Robert_L_Peters]

Around the 39:00-40:00 mark you sneak in some theology. 'what Christianity is all about?' I think your words immediately before and after demonstrate that people did not agree on this then, nor do they now. Also I think a decent argument can be made that Jesus and the early church expected Jewish Christians to continue to live as Jews, actually to a higher standard (see the Sermon on the Mount), and Gentile Christians to obey the Noahide Laws or some earlier version (see Acts 15, 21, etc.)...

[@kaygibbs8639]

Mark 7:24-30. I agree, JESUS clearly saying here HE was sent first to the Jews. Gentiles were not in the script at that time. But because she had great faith in HIM alone, (not Judaism religion) her daughter got healed. And she was a Syrophoenician-"a despised Gentile". Being called a dog-she still wouldn't quit begging!!! I would love to know just what she had heard about HIM prior.

[@Robert_L_Peters]

@@kaygibbs8639 good question!

[@unripetheberrby6283]

4:05 doesn't the Bible have things like that in it? 🤔 But I get* what you mean, there's not a big book dedicated to it or anything. Though being a follower/believer doesn't mean you'll just have that Job and the book's for 'followers/believers' I'd say.

[@1978rayking]

Do as I say , God said , words are nothing compared to the knowing of the spirit.

[@revcounselor]

These are really great lectures. I attended a Presbyterian USA seminary and learned most of this then; best education I have ever had! So much I've forgotten. This has been such a great venue in getting it back. I am curious as to the number of times the Mormon church/Joseph Smith is referenced. Their influence and outreach to mainline Christianity is minimal.

[@GlanderBrondurg]

If the presenter wants to chime in, he is welcome. It should be noted that the speaker is in the church hierarchy of the Community of Christ, which is one of the major branches of Mormonism. In my own opinion, they are closest to mainstream Protestantism of any branch of Mormonism, which is why he both mentions Joseph Smith and mostly sticks to mainstream ideas. Some of his audience is also of that church, hence the references. I don't think it should detract from his obvious scholarship on this topic, but that is the context he comes from for this presentation.

[@Arnold-ee2be]

It's hard for me to understand how with such certainty Bible scholars conclude that the four gospels were written a century or more after Christ visitations. If you pick a part various facts and historical events associated with the information in the Gospels you will probably conclude that they were written coincident to the time or right after the departure of Jesus for example the speaker says that Luke was both the writer of The Book of Luke and acts. But the book of Acts describes immediate events right after Christ's departure therefore how did Luke be written a hundred years or more after Jesus was on the Earth? There is a German historian who wrote a number of books with analysis and if you read it thoroughly and look at his points you will also conclude that the writings in the four Gospels occurred quite close to after Christ was crucified not a hundred years or so after

[@GeraldM_inNC]

The "scholars" who set forth those dates are invariably theological liberals, who believe Jesus was a mere human with no special powers, if they even believe he existed at all. Their dates for the gospels are chosen in order to deny that there is any truth to them.

[@eb4256]

Is this a Mormon-based series? If so, I wish the guy would’ve stated it up front.

[@101MadMac]

They say the 12 tribes or just a 12 zodiacs and the 44,000 are just the seven chakras with 1,000 leaf lotus plant at the top

[@matthewcox2099]

It was the vision is what started it. A vision from 3 personages from heaven told to Joseph smith , not created by their minds but directed by god and his godhead not created by man but by his visitations

[@MultipleGrievance]

I realize that the title is meant to attract interested people who are not overly familiar with Judeo - Christian scripture & tradition, But for the sake of accuracy; The Didache Was never lost. Nor was it ever a Bible.......🙋‍♂️ It's just collection of creeds and acceptable behavior for christians of the early centuries. It's a window in time to be sure, But it was never meant to be added to Holy scripture, Despite Clement of Alexandria quoting it as sacred scripture.

[@davidchurch3472]

Maybe, when King James wrote his second Book, 'The Bible' there was no need for him to write a chapter on setting up and running churches, because he had already included that in his first Book, 'The Book of Common Prayer, etc'. James was very clever to write from so many people's perspectives, and there is no proof that any of the chapters were written by any other particular author, which leaves us with the dedication inside the Book itself, which states it was written by James himself.....?

[@howardleekilby7390]

❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@onlylove556]

Its either the Didache is quoting from Matthew, or it very well could be that the gospel of Matthew is actually quoting from the Didache itself. Bc we do have some Scholars, that are dating the Didache all the way back to 48 to 50AD. So it very well could be vice-versa, that the gospel writers are using the Didache as the "Q"-Source...🤷🏻‍♂️ Food for thought....

[@GeraldM_inNC]

IMO the Hebrew "Gospel of the Hebrews" probably preceded both of them and is quoted by both of them. But this is a very controversial subject.

[@onlylove556]

@@GeraldM_inNC U know what's crazy, is I literally just heard about the Gospel of the Hebrews yesterday lol. When I 1st came across it a few yrs back, I just automatically assumed it was about the canonical NT book of Hebrews. Bc we can't say with 100% on who the author really is. Most Scholars just say it was St. Paul so wrote Hebrews. So I didn't pay any attention to it at the time. Until I heard Jimmy Akin do a Podcast on "The Gospel of the Hebrews." So yeah u could be right🤷🏻‍♂️ Jimmy Akin said a lot of people say it's very controversial, bc it calls the HolySpirit a female, or a Mother of God. But in the OT "Wisdom" is a feminine word in the ancient Hebrew language, & is known as female (She). Even God's Shekinah Glory is a feminine (her) in Hebrew language. So a lot of people reject it The Gospel of Hebrews Jimmy said. But I haven't read it personally, but that sounds very interesting. So I'll definitely look into more💯. So I really appreciate that info, I didn't think about it being "Q," but hey it could be possible... I really love reading church history, as I use to be a protestant believer b4. But now I see that Apostolic succession is historical Christianity, not sola scriptura. So I always love growing more on my spiritual journey.

[@GeraldM_inNC]

@onlylove556 No copy of the Gospel of the Hebrews survives, just quotations from it. To increase the confusion, there was a later version of it that was heretical. The original G. Hebrews was very close to G. Matthew. Either G. Hebrews was translated from G. Matthew into Hebrew or G. Matthew was translated into Greek from G. Hebrews. I believe the latter, and that G. Hebrews was written by St. Matthew and that it was the earliest Gospel known to have ever existed. But these issues are extremely controversial and there is no consensus.

[@onlylove556]

@@GeraldM_inNC Yes I do remember Jimmy's saying that it didn't survive throughout history. Just like we have the writing from the historian Eusebius, in the 4th century. Who copied some of the church fathers info, who's writing didn't survive throughout history. I think one of them was Papias, from 60Ad. Bc we also have Clement of Rome, & St Ignatius who wrote about him, & he quotes from the gospels as well. But that is very very interesting to me now, bc I have read historians that say the original Gospel of Matthew, could have been written Hebrew 1st. And Scholars from both sides Catholicism, & protestantism, both say that Matthew's gospel, was written for the Jews to understand the good news. Bc it has so much Jewish traditions written into it. As St John's Gospel was for gentiles, & Jews, was written in the Greek language, for the rest of the world to understand the good news. Catholic theologians would argue that how if Matthew was written in Hebrew 1st. It will show Matt 16:18; as Peter being the rock, not little pebble that it was translated in the Greek later. Bc the another reason was that Jesus spoke Aramaic, showing Peter was always called Cephas not little pebble. Just like in John 1:42; St Peter was called Cephas, the 1st Foundation stones of the church like Ephesians 2:18-22; shows they were the 1st spiritual Foundation Stones, that were built without hands, the invisible structure of the church, & Jesus being the spiritual Cornerstone of the invisible structure. So if that is true that Matthew was written in Hebrew, then that also gives significant support for the Gospel of The Hebrews. So thank u brother I appreciate that info. I'm excited to research more of it now. Lord bless u & keep u.💯🙏🏼☦

[@toonmoene8757]

The meal was an actual meal ? The Didache was not "new" in this - this was hotly debated in the Acts !

[@andrewsuryali8540]

The Didache is older than Acts. The meals being debated in Acts are what the Didache is describing.

[@skilz8098]

I believe that there is only 1 True Church and that is the Bride of Christ, the Church Of Christ. I think John 14 says all you need to understand this, especially what he says in verse 6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. You're either it's a Church of Christ or it is not. This is why I try to refrain from getting into the ideas, discussions or debates of denominations. There's Only One Way and that's Christ's Teachings! If you follow his teachings and live by it with the full blessings of the Holy Spirit then everything will happen as it is meant to be. I've been to many various types of churches, Methodist, Baptists, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Catholic, etc... There are many things I agree with from many of them and there are some things that I do not. And regardless of what I agree with or not, none of that matters. What does matter is what Our Father in Heaven agrees with, what Christ agrees with! Otherwise it becomes a flock of sheep that is lead astray and they become lost. Christ said, "many shall come in my name, but I never knew them!". People need to be extremely careful with these kind of debates, or rituals, traditions, etc. because they can easily lead to divinations. This is what God says about divinations in Deuteronomy 18:10-11 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. I used this as a single example. Christ came not to do away with the Law but to fulfill it and that he did. We know this when he said on the cross, "It is finished" or "It is done". Consult with the words of Christ and follow his teachings and pay attention to all of his references. For example in Matthew 24 he speaks about what Daniel had mentioned. So go back and consult with Daniel. In other passages he references Enoch. Yet we don't see too much about Enoch except for in Genesis where we know who he was born to, how old he was when he had his children a couple of things he did, and that God took him and we know how old he was when God took him. So where is this source material that Yeshua is referring to? Well, I tend to think that many of the modern versions of Old Testament are missing out or lacking on the tellings or teachings of Enoch. They were lost to many tribes, yet they were found within Christian Churches that their practices were very close to that of Hebrew - Judean cultures and within their Bible which goes back to around the 3rd - 5th century (I'd have to look up this time period as I'm not 100% sure of it off the top of my head) that does in fact include the Book of Enoch and these were found in Ethiopia. The main instruction that Christ gives us is to keep his commandments! Every time the pharisees approached and challenged him, he shot them all down with his wisdom and made them look like fools. If he came here today with the Papacy, I'd expect he'd do the same thing! Over the millenia a great portion of the modern church has become either corrupted like current politicians and corporate globalism, or the seek fortune and fame, or they've become lukewarm to cold or stagnant. There's going to be quite a rude awakening when he returns! He gave us the instruction to go out into the world and the spread the Good News, to Preach about the Kingdom of Heaven, to warn about the dangers of sins and transgressions and how they lead towards a path to destruction and eternal condemnation. He told us to be willing to take up our cross, willing to lay down or give up our lives in favor of spreading his message for his Kingdom. The Apostles themselves doubted him, denied him and one even betrayed him before he was crucified. Then after he was crucified and they had seen that he was dead, they still weren't fully committed or devoted. Then Christ resurrected and when they knew it was him, their entire belief system was turned upside down. Then after he ascended and they were given the gifts of the Holy Spirit (Christ Within), they went their own way typically in pairs and they went in to some of the harshest or cruelest of places and everyone of them ended up becoming a Martyr for witnessing to others the Gospel of Christ. This is what it means to be a Christian or a Disciple. The church is the collection of all of his Disciples all of his Elect. This is how I feel about it. I don't need another man to tell me how Christ's church ought to be run. I'll seek out Christ's wisdom, knowledge, and instruction through His Word and through the Holy Spirit. To me that is how the church should be run. Now considering the Cannon here's some food for thought. How many scrolls, texts, books, writings, etc. were lost when the Library of Alexandria burnt to down? Talk about hidden or lost texts... There are writings that we don't even know of! Yet at the same time if we have truth faith and belief in God, we know that He is in control and that His plan will manifest itself. So maybe the Cannon we have to day might be incomplete in some regards, yet it is complete for this might be how God wanted it to be. Or maybe the Great Deceiver is still at work and has altered it through the blindness and corruption of man... The only truth that I know or pretend to know is that only God knows the Truth about it. It isn't called the Living Word of God for no reason. It's living because it breathes and moves like the wind and it changes over time. This isn't to say that God changes his words no, his words are always valid, but the Living Word I'm referring to is the Living Word through the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. His works are still being written through men and women throughout this world! That's the ever changing part and that's what makes it Living! He lives within us and he moves through us! He still speaks through us!

[@PetouKan]

Very thoroughly contextualized. Except preterism wasn't mentioned, and these poor early Christians that were told the end was coming soon/quickly, more than a dozen times in just one letter, somehow got it wrong? At least mention the fact that it's possible the end happened in their generation as it was predicted. ;)

[@andrewisjesus]

Looking into the modern Bible you have been trying to figure out what Paul was talking about when he said according to the scriptures it's probably the stupidest Endeavor that anyone could undertake