The Grand Duchy Of Aesfrost Is Destined To Fail

[@Hawkatana]

As a guy interested in real world history, I love how Triangle Strategy understands something about war that very few fictional settings (fantasy settings especially) do: the economic and sociocultural reasons. Wars are never fought only because some guy is just a mean asshole who doesn't like a bordering nation, it's usually because of the neighbouring nation has a strategic resource or location, they were humiliated in the last war and want back what they consider rightfully theirs or there's a class/ethnicity/cultural group who feels underrepresented and can't achieve their goals peacefully. After all, what is war but the continuation of politics by other means? Just wish everything, the game itself included didn't have the lamest name it possibly could have.

[@renren47618]

Triangle Strategy is probably the most realistical JRPG when it comes to giving a realistic reason behind a war, fighting over territory and resources like salt and iron are reasons why wars actually happen in real life, not just because the Dark Overlord decided to conquer the world or because one of them has an evil dragon cult, which is ok for fantasy but it's nice to see a more realistical approach to war.

[@Temporal94]

Judging by how the war is over the distribution of resources and does also involve the enslavement of an ethnic group, I wonder if it's something of a reference to the Atlantic Triangular Slave Trade

[@toledochristianmatthew9919]

​@@Temporal94slavery has been there throughout history not just the Atlantic slave trade although if anything this game is more inspired by the Arab slave trade especially with how Hyzante gives off more Middle Eastern Arab/Persian influences.

[@brandontherabboat4850]

Very few moments in video games have made me feel smarter than when I pieced together that Dragan had found, and was subsequently killed over, a salt crystal right before Triangle Strategy revealed it. And dear God, Gustadolph was dumb as hell for that assassination and war declaration.

[@TheHearthGuy]

Man was thinking so many steps ahead he tripped on the one right in front of him and fell down the stairs.

[@toledochristianmatthew9919]

In the beginning he seemed more calculated and actually forgiving than outright evil. His invasion and annexation of Glenbrook was swift to prevent large casualties that would stir the local population to rise against him. Gustadolph actually ran the annexed territories quite better than the Glenbrook family so much so that the peasants and nobility actually wanted to be ruled by Aesfrost. Heck if Thalas and Erika weren't so stupid and brash, then the Wolforts and the rest of Glenbrook would have surrendered peacefully. Even when you surrendered Roland, they messed up the negotiations that would have secured the rest of the kingdom and only provoked them and fell into Hyzante's influence. Like Gustadolph should have punished Thalas and Erika for essentially screwing that up and preventing Aesfrost from dominating Glenbrook.

[@runelessruneless9024]

I love that he figures it out in the Liberty ending lol. Dumbass! If you'd left him alone, Hyzante would almost certainly have tried to kill him, and then you could have teamed up with Glenbrook and called it a day!

[@loftwingheropon2743]

Something i enjoyed about this game was how the golden route was accessed. I accidently stumbled on it on my second playthrough and loved how all my decisions cane together. And also how getting the golden route doesnt just boil down to choosing the morally correct option. Like you have to smuggle salt for the senator. Or you have to give up roland (or just not use the traps but thats quite hard) it felt like getting the happy ending required effort and i like how it was seranoa that came up with the plan on his own. A game where he delegates decisions to a vote. He finally makes his own choice. (PS Anna is the best)

[@greendemon905]

The first time I played this game, I couldn't get the golden ending (my army refused to smuggle salt). So I had to choose a different path. To side with Roland, I'd have to doom the Roselle, and to side with Frederica would mean forsaking Glenbrook. I saw Benedict's path as the one that would give both a chance, albeit a small one. But man, that ending made me feel really bad! Benedict smirking while Serenoa and Frederica sit on the throne, their hope dulled.

[@andrewtyrell4795]

That ending felt like such a betrayal.

[@0axis771]

I love Triangle Strategy. I was intrigued by the concept of choice and diverse path cause I saw similarities with 3Houses. So I couldn't help but make comparisons. Kudos on how you went through this without ever once mentioning 3H the entire time. Must have been a tad difficult. And yeah, Gustadolph really shows the very corruption of the term "freedom" given how he legit does not try to help people rise up but tells everyone to "get gud" and reap the benefits. The cannon that Svarog worked on and Dragan's threat made it clear that Gustadolph wants to be the one to take all the stuff from those who use their freedom to rise up to make himself be stronger. And he even cheats others by promising them freedom like Rudolph being given a pardon for his crimes in exchange for his help, only to then say that his pardon is just being banished. It is interesting how the game starts with Gustadolph and Aesfrost being the token villain who starts the war, but then as the game goes on, you realize that they are nothing more than just an obstacle at worst, the villains always shifting to Hyzante in the end. Gustadolph is never even the final villain during the Utility Route when you actually fight Aesfrost, as he's only ultimately just a precursor to the actual boss, Svarog. Ultimately, you made a great point to talk about the difference between freedom and liberty, especially the link to the great power, great responsibility line. I can't help but bring up 3H into this again, because this is exactly where I saw the big difference between Edelgard and Gustadolph. While it seems that Gustaolph and Edelgard both operate under the premise of elevating others regardless of status, Edelgard makes it clear that she very much needs people whom she elevates to be able to bear the responsibilities, and needs it to be a requirement. Even her position as Emperor is something she wants to relinquish not to her blood, but to someone who is "brilliant and kind", showcasing that she wants competent of good character to rule. She even brings this up to Shez during 3Hopes. So while both express freedom, only Edelgard actually seems to attain liberty in her reforms.

[@2Xexile]

"Liberty and freedom are not the same thing" (+related paragraph) Small correction: what you have just described here is the libertarian debate around positive freedom vs negative freedom. Positive freedom (the benefits as they exist as an abstract concept) pertains to those who want to gratify themselves, regardless of the events that got them there - whereas negative freedom is the understanding that series of events will lead to a desired outcome (the concept of, as you put it, responsibility). A good example is if you wanted to eat an apple. Those arguing for positive freedom will just say 'OK, I'm going to go and eat an apple', and care little for where it came from, so long as it exists (the consumer, basically). Those, meanwhile, arguing for *negative* freedom, understand that you need to cultivate the plant that leads to a ripe apple (think farmers and such, and those who observe consequences on the road to a desired outcome). "Give a man a fish, it feeds him for a day. Teach that man to fish, and you feed him for life" - that sort of thing.

[@medmax5941]

I always found Gustadolph to be an interesting villain, unlike Idore who seems just straight up evil by the end. Also Dragan is written very well into the story, being important long after his death and really feeling like a character with a lot of potential that was cut short. I think that’s why the negotiation between Gustadolph and Benedict + Serenoa on Benedict’s route is one of my favorite scenes in the game. It’s interesting to see Gustadolph reckon with the consequences of his manipulation and distrust. He meticulously planned for the possibility of the salt crystals’ discovery, but not for the possibility of Dragan using them to better Norzelia.

[@toledochristianmatthew9919]

Idore is also a complex character. Heck I think he and the saintly seven are meant to be a dark reflection to Seranoa and house Wolfort. When the heirophant died during the first salt iron war Hyzante fell into civil war and the Roselle rebelling. Idore fell into despair when his goddess couldn't save them and saw how selfish and corrupt his people became during their worst time and so sought a way ensure equality and security in his his own twisted way.

[@medmax5941]

@ That’s a good point. I think Idore’s monologue on the Golden Route gives a glimpse into the complexity of his character, and while I wish we saw more of that throughout the game, it make sense because he’s perpetuating lies the entire time and has no reason to explain himself before that point. Also I think some of the other Saintly Seven are good foils to Wolffort, particularly Exharme being ideologically aligned with Serenoa. Lyla and Kamsell don’t really seem like bad people either, just that Kamsell genuinely believes in the Teachings and Lyla feels that she’s in too deep + wants to protect her son.

[@trulymrword]

If I had to have a nickel every time an antagonist wanted to create a meritocracy in games that the HearthGuy covered that somehow is doomed to collapse, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.

[@dragonstouch1042]

And a pension for red and black

[@MrAsaqe]

Aesfrost is what happens if Medieval Sweden decides its time to install "modern values" into society. The fact the Archduke is named after Adolph Gustavous was not a coincidence

[@joeyjose727]

So excited! But maybe you can change the title because I’m worried many people don’t even know what the duchy is, or what game the art is from 😭 It’s less known than something like Alrest

[@murplecrabb]

Keep being awesome HearthGuy

[@Leah-Heala]

Thank you for covering Triangle Strategy XD, I've been making videos on it, both modding and doing the battles with challenges, it'd be amazing to see more people filter in. The community is slowly burning out XD. (also, I want to add that Gustadolph knew of the salt crystal's potential to exist in an old sensitive text in the archive and planned for this most likely, he amassed troops at the border before all this even occurred, enough to devastate Glenbrook, he most likely already knew that Dragan found salt crystals when he read the letter, and that seeing his chance to lay Hyzante low, he'd kill Dragan and start a war.)

[@quirinoguy8665]

Finally, he's talking about Triangle Strategy! My Goat!!!

[@librathebeautifulwarmonk1283]

This is my favorite game of all time so I appreciate this series

[@jaiveonwatts2195]

Finally, someone is spreading the word of one of the best stories in gaming

[@runelessruneless9024]

We're getting well fed today! I love analysis like this. This is great!

[@chrisgarbutt1893]

As a Triangle Strategy Fan I am so excited to see you cover this game after your amazing Three House series. While I am a staunch Fire Emblem fan (And a proud Edelgard supporter), Triangle Strategy is such a beautiful immersive game that understands medieval politics, ideologies and war in a way I wish Fire Emblem would adopt. There's real consequences towards your actions and the Golden Route Ending actually feels earned, not only for the player, but for all of Norzelia as a whole that you spent hours with. Even Lord Sereona himself feels refreshing compared to the recent cast of Lords/Avatars in Fire Emblem. And that's not even mentioning how great Gustadolph and Idore are as villains'. I can't wait for you to cover the other nations of Glenbrook and Hyzante. (P.S Sire Maxwell is the best TS character)

[@alphaspm6106]

Wonderful video as always HearthGuy, I only played the golden route so I didn't know that the other ones were as bad as they are. One problem I have is that although I agree with the open but crowded door statement, several characters did get some benefit from Aesfrost and its meritocracy (iirc Geela and Jens studied in the Great Library withoutany issue) Compared to Hyzante, Aesfrost has at least some positive aspects.

[@nahte123456]

Triangle Strategy really was a great game. My only big issue with it, that this video kind of highlights, is it felt like all the none-golden routes were too harsh. I went Golden Route first because I heard it was the hardest with a spoiler free guide and after that I looked up stuff on the game and I have no idea why I'd ever go for not the Golden Route now, the others all just kind of suck. But for this specific video topic, Gustadolph is a tale as old as time, petty selfishness ruining everything. There was no need to kill Dragan there, starting the war then was a stupid move anyways, and the blatant nepotism he shows to Thales and Erika(along with ignoring Alvora) just makes his blatantly worse then they'd be otherwise. If he'd let it go, stopped favoring the moron siblings and listened to Alvora more he'd have had a good chance of planning and winning. He could have even still killed Dragan, promote him, poison him, and blame it on some one from Hyzant! Killing Dragan so rashly, listening to the idiot siblings, and ignoring Alvora basically loses him everything.

[@0axis771]

It’s kinda obvious why. The Golden Route is only meant to be played on your 4th playthrough, minimum. That’s because the golden route needs you to have 30 characters to maximize your playthrough when you divide your forces. Characters you can only get if you play every route and explore nearly every choice. Plus if you wanna 💯 your playthrough. As for Gustadolph, it’s clear that he’s just a power hungry tyrant who preaches the archduchy’s belief of freedom only when it helps him attain more power. You have your freedom only if you make things for him to reap the benefits from. As proven by how he took the cannon from his uncle the moment it was completed. Dragan was killed cause the guy “dared” to threaten him, rather than submit and give the salt crystal to him unconditionally.

[@emblemblade9245]

Yeah, finding out how sucky the situation in all the non-golden endings is, along with the fact that so many characters just seem unlikeably terrible, made me lose interest in getting the game. No offense to those who like it.

[@toledochristianmatthew9919]

​@@emblemblade9245I think shows how flawed all three convictions are. Like in morality, Frederica wants to save her people after being oppressed by everyone in the continent and so wants to find a new path for them but her actions are very selfish and condemns the entire continent into constant war. In the utility ending,Roland fell into despair after losing most of his family, his people, and has no confidence in his own leadership and seeks the stability of a greater power like Hyzante and its theocracy but the problem is how he condemns an entire people into slavery not only the Roselle but the Aesfrosti after they are defeated. Benedict' liberty ending seems to be the best at first since you aren't abandoning the continent nor condemning people into slavery but Benedicts conviction leads to Serenoa and Glenbrook adopting Gustadolph's policies and it essentially becomes survival of the fittest. All three have flaws but it makes the golden ending more well earned because Serenoa finds a way to appease all sides and finds the best route for his group and the entire continent.

[@0axis771]

@@toledochristianmatthew9919 Which is why the Golden Ending is symbolized by all 3 flames on the scale lighting up. Serenoa’s conviction harmonizes and balances Morality, Liberty, and Utility.

[@Hawkatana]

@@toledochristianmatthew9919 I get that, but there's a point where trying to portray a path as being flawed veers into being dark for the sake of being dark. Triangle Strategy's biggest flaw is that it does just that.

[@iwoulddieforsomeanniechuns7996]

Thank you so much for this video essay!!! I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw this in my recommended- us Triangle Strategy fans are starved for some more content. Amazing as always!

[@Phantom6.6.6]

Sad your death battle videos may have ended but so happy to see these amazing analysis videos going up. Keep up the amazing work and hope you reach that 5k sub goal

[@endikaaspeurrutia1013]

YEEEEEEEA LETS GO, I LOVE this Game

[@Ymryrth]

Same

[@Nines45]

13:08 I highly doubt Idore would start a revolution because he already was technically a dictator in Hyzante and the goddess or hirophante and it's reveal that the goddesses' teaching were falses and is just some artificial doll lets say it like this after the Library ending if this was like a sequel or something Idore is more likely wanted by Glennbrook for his conspiracy, crimes against humanity and mass murder with Serenoa now being installed as king of Glennbrook he has the power of the salt crystals and restored relationships with Asefrost and the new Hyzante government under minister Lyla she always knew the goddess was lie and was forced to believe in her falsehood and all Norzelia now knows the Hyzante's religion is false even the people of Hyzante and Roselle know the truth and they certainly would not want to work with him if Roland where also to argee Idore's plan he would be putting himself in more danger then when Asefrost invaded Glennbrook. If Gustadolph ever were to die as Archduke at whatever point then it could be likely him and Serenoa could reunited and forgive each other.

[@JustsomeKid93]

I gotta play this game again, mad underrated

[@Shazzner]

I love this game, thanks for talking about it! I ultimately ended up with Frederica's path, which I was happy with; I knew immediately that siding with fantasy libertarians versus fantasy communism on the backs of slavery were terrible choices.

[@Hawkatana]

Eh, it's kind of the exact opposite of communism. I couldn't see Gustadolph supporting anything to the effect of "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need".

[@emblemblade9245]

@@Hawkatanapretty sure the communists in question were the religious desert people

[@loftwingheropon2743]

Out of the 3 morality path felt like i was giving the middle finger to all those who tried to make Seranoa their puppet. Like screw you all I'm leaving and taking the rosel with me. And for that reason alone I chose it.

[@renren47618]

​@@HawkatanaLibertarian fantasy = Benedict Communism Fantasy= Roland Facism Fantasy = Gustadolph Then you have Frederica which is saving the slaves and giving the middle finger to everyone else

[@qwefg3]

Curious to see your thoughts on the other endings.

[@nstar674]

Oh yeah... I've been waiting for this!

[@BillRJones]

Finished the game literally last week, so this is pretty convenient

[@Yacovo]

Thanks for the video.

[@elevate07]

I'm so upset I missed the premier. My penance will be too watch this 5 more times

[@TheHearthGuy]

Your dutiful repentance is appreciated and acknowledged.

[@frankybee9]

This was a great video

[@Error-mn4el]

havent watched the video yet just wanted to comment that the title is fantastic

[@sebj3917]

Holy shit lets gooo !!!

[@rctecopyright]

I think I got two endings then sorta forgot about this game. It's not bad and it's not life changingly good. Though if I played this when I was a child I'd probably have been hooked. Think I'll pick it up again and see about finishing things up

[@RocketChickArt1]

I don't know I didn't really vibe with triangle strategy that much but maybe because when I bought the game I had just beaten tactics ogre. But I don't mind your unhinged rants. You should probably give these little speeches title that way it doesn't get lost with all the newcomers in the stream of videos which is KZbin

[@danieljacob9717]

Really love the analysis, any interest in covering Tactics Ogre?

[@antonkraghpaaskesen5050]

I’d rather say, it’s destined to succeed… for Gustadolph

[@jackfrost105]

So the Big Bad is Cao Cao, but way too incompetent....so sad.

[@dmar.gar5689]

Cool

[@C.D.G.1]

Talk about Warhammer 40K.