THE GRAND FINALE PVP TIER LIST

[@robpiccott7815]

lol “we will get to arcane in a second” proceeds to skip arcane, still love your content just thought it was funny

[@Flarkness]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I can't believe it, arcane was gonna stay the same though but that's terrible I wish I could add an annotation

[@Th3beastcj]

@@Flarknessyes it

[@idkbroreally]

@@Flarkness Your credibility is forever stained moving forward....

[@Flarkness]

@@idkbroreally IT'S OVER MAN

[@Flarkness]

BG blitz and Arena Tier lists by the community, for the community. did we do it chat?

[@driiifter]

The ultra omega alpha grand finale tier list baby.

[@Flarkness]

THE TRULY CONCLUSIVE CUMULATIVE SPECIAL BEAM CANNON TIER LIST OF THE TRIUMVIRATE

[@cheng-chunlin7336]

@@Flarkness when is Episode 2?

[@whateverbro9002]

Really enjoyed the response to comments in this video, good assessment-subscribed

[@Tyelkormoko]

So this guy is churning out awesome content one after the other, very excited for TWW and your videos on it, I will try my best to catch a live stream!

[@taz_trader]

I qued into a bg blitz coming back a week ago, and ran into Clarkness. I did not expect the damage on the pres evoker it was crazy.

[@fjernt8355]

I really need to stop watching these tier lists I have such bad ptsd from other MMOs and an so worried about playing a bad class and just not playing what I find fun

[@DEEP-WEB]

It’s a double edged sword for sure

[@potworzgo]

Yeah but then imagine you are pvp player and go play enh shaman. You would quit wow if you tried to climb as enh

[@Larry-gu6km]

I feel that, I always pick my first class of the xpac as a tank so I can gear the fastest and get the raid and mythic achievements to gear my alts the quickest. Then I pick start looking for replacement mains with my alts lol. But it's still tough cause I know DH havoc is the most fun for me, but since I wanna tank I have to pick between vengeance, bear druid, and blood dk So we'll see what I end up with lol. Prilly dh tbh 😂

[@FadedKai]

playing as Enh is nothing but pain

[@yattering6669]

My heart is broken....love my shammy...but enh...is just crap...

[@BackyardPvP]

Idk where my other comments went sorry if I double post - my opinions on ret is that it needs to be moved down to low A - demo locks are nonexistent after diabolist tree got gutted so maybe low A or B+ - affliction locks I want to rate S if you are high xp player I have seen one guy go pretty much undefeated in duels against all specs almost definitely no one was killing this particular dude more than he was killing them but it is the harder spec to pick up with lock (he used both trees testing and I’m not sure which came out on top but it didn’t matter much LOL after they buffed haunt by 150% and agony like 45% and unstable affliction by like 50% (all info based on duels by high rated PvP players in westfall in the beta)

[@cob12321]

My argument for shadow priest is a new talent they received that increases the range on most of their spells by 15%. This effectively puts the majority of their spells at almost a 50 yd range. This allows them to out range the majority of the classes that would want to shut them down, and also they can peel off of a point if they need to rotate without many classes being able to interfere

[@Flarkness]

that's actually a really good argument. 50 yard range is a similar boon that marksman gets that puts it so high. I think you've finally convinced me. prob won't be doin another all encompassing tier list for a while tho XD

[@cynicist8114]

@Flarkness That talent is in the base priest tree though, meaning that disc and holy also have access to it. I assume that was the dev's answer for the poor mobility, but I'm not sure it's enough, personally. Do you feel it's different because Shadow is bursty DPS, and therefore is scarier?

[@ब्रह्मन-ष1स]

Phantom Reach, almost never taken, useless in bgs as we need to go in melee range constantly to fear, and almost never used in arena (depending on the map, comp, and generally only if we're not the target and unable to get many fears).

[@Flarkness]

I think dps being able to pick people off with extra range is more useful than healers since you won't be kidnapping a spriest to take them out of a game, you'd be cc/kidnapping a healer.

[@Aikicyoaz]

Being so far away will they be unable to help their team who has to stay closer in combat?

[@themufi1]

I respect this. But it makes me sad to see Disc priest at a C tier for Blitzs games, based on the argument "DK will lock you down / you have no mobility". But they are still A tier for Arena... I strongly believe that Disc should be B tier for Blitzs. I do think that they can actually make a difference when its only 8vs8. I think they have som great tools: Mass fear, mass root, Power Word: Barrier, Atonements, Power Word: Radiance -> into -> Dark Archangel for a 15% dmg increase to your entire team. Sure, they will not be great in every Blitzs map. But they can for sure make that snowball effect happen, on maps where players have to split up into smaller groups. Great video. I'm super excited to see you future reaction.

[@SnakeeyQQ]

Finally a tier list that has some arguments in its support, even tho “community said blabla” its still better than most nonsense big streamers post based on nothing, good job!

[@Flarkness]

for sure and actually the first two lists I have on this channel are strictly me and my rationale if you want to watch those instead. no community intervention.

[@danedilrlsbx]

Now I agree with the arena list. I would only change the restoration shaman to A, but that's just my point of view. I haven't tested Rbg yet so I can't give my opinion. Great video! Good luck to you!

[@Flarkness]

yeah I think rsham being a tier up scares me because it loves mastery which it will have less of. but we'll seeee hero talents are wild

[@bambamsnots1221]

Absolutely A tier. Mastery is nice and all, but the kit with farseer is fantastic.

[@TotalRejection]

Other content creators put outlaw in A or B or even S (and other specs in S+). I heard it does good damage at 80. Maybe it is just hard to rank, because people haven't seen a lot of them? Personally, I wouldn't write it off as a C tier spec. Time has shown that its toolkit can work pretty well in arena and that its viability comes down to damage tuning more often than not. In my experience, it also works decently in shuffle (at least better than sub), because its less dependant on perfectly executed CC or Shadowy Duel.

[@Flarkness]

totally fair point. I've heard that it's hero talents are a little underwhelming so I guess I'm not sure where it gets that extra damage from at 80, but it definitely is a rogue spec so it definitely could be better.

[@cynicist8114]

@Flarkness Trickster is terrible still but Fatebound is actually nuts. People criticize it for being passive/boring, but the tails flip does crazy damage. Against a PVP dummy, it was often the 1-4 highest damage source, and the damage is cosmic, which overcomes the physical damage problem that outlaw generally has. It also has a hero talent called Fate Intertwined, which grants an additional 30% dispatch damage on crits as cosmic to nearby enemies, or to the main target if no one is nearby. That's a big modifier. It won't touch sin or sub for on demand damage, but I think people will be surprised by it at 80.

[@poolboyque]

The most accurate, up to date, peer reviewed, scientifically analyzed, grand finale, mack daddy tier list

[@nebojsadjordjevic6768]

Remember guys, they said enhance shaman didn't need a rework as they are satisfied with how it works. As a result, the spec ends in BOTTOM tiers in the majority of tierlists.

[@jackaljr666666]

it's fine, its just awfuly tuned

[@byakku12]

Mistweaver can have 4 or 5 rolls + the dashes if talented. + port and sprint. S tier for sure 👌🏻

[@Flarkness]

yeah so true mw just has the perfect kit for bg blitz so it has to be S tier.

[@lhdr5955]

@@Flarkness dont forget the 25s freedom you get from Chi-Ji too.

[@r-ex2945]

Ret is no where S tier. The magic bop has a shared cooldown with the phy bop. Sanc is nice but it is a GCD. Also ret single target damage is lower than most melee(the biggest hitters). It cost some build up and it crits 1/3 lower than feral who needs less build up. Also when you pressure a ret like enhancement a lot if their dps goes down. Also a lot of the other S amd A tier classes are not weak against ret. So putting ret in S is just a big mistake. For more info check the streamer/youtuber lvladen he explains it more in debt. Ending with the thing that ret has talents that do not increase the damage of certain dots while the tooltip says it increases dot damage

[@Flarkness]

"sanc is nice but it is a GCD". whew lad.

[@sebastianm6135]

Still cant decide between DH and DK lol. Someone got good arguments for each of the classes ?

[@andreiionescu182]

Most of top old school ranked players in arena pvp and tournaments rank ret paladin as B tier because most of other melee classes just put more dmg and burst on the table with a short window to build up. Ret paladin does less dmg as sustain dmg and it takes much more time to build up a decent burst.

[@corybrown5350]

Unrelated but I’m coming back to WoW in a long time and trying a DK for the first time, what spec do you suggest for leveling?

[@austin4990]

Your feeble mind cant comprehend anything except frost, if you are asking stuff like you just asked imho. Im completely serious btw... still love you though brother man, welcome back to the thunderdome.

[@cynicist8114]

Blood is pretty great for leveling. Great for dungeon queues and you can just pick up and kill lots of quest mobs at once since you are near unkillable.

[@corybrown5350]

@@austin4990 going unholy mothafucka!!! Let’s rock

[@Unobserved07]

Just glanced and this is the first tier I've seen having affliction in c

[@Flarkness]

look at the end of the arena tier list, and you'll see where aff ends up.

[@csimmeri]

The spirit bomb tier list

[@KenZzo]

bg blitz will be so much fun

[@Larindragon]

I only saw one video of havoc doing less dps than a healer, and it was out dps'd by a pres, I think it was a Supa video, one of his recent ones, but I could be wrong on that.

[@Flarkness]

yeah I mean I think jake even out dmg'd me once when we won in the opener as pres/dk/rogue but I don't think unholy's damage was low lmao.

[@thatherton]

No, you’re right. The pres was doing about as much as havoc in a shuffle lobby. Supa was playing resto sham in the video.

[@Adrian-bj1rk]

so demo is better than affli atm?

[@alexruel4793]

That demon hunter comment if I were to guess is referring to the video supertease put out from the beta where a pres Evoker out damages the demon hunter I believe all 6 rounds. Pres looks maybe overturned?

[@Flarkness]

yeah I think that's pres being overtuned.

[@sakkiebasson2052]

Could you maybe make a bg blitz vid where you guide on how to win the maps with in pugs. Like maybe some simple strats to call at the start etc

[@poetofnoreturn7708]

Ill be honest, demo warlock is nowhere near s in arena. 1)it is no longer a tanky spec it used to be where it wasnt even the target often, it is now dies just as easy as the other 2 warlock specs, which also die way easier then in DF. 2)it hast to cast much more then before and casts are all long, it is incredibly easy to disturb demo setups. 3)we used to have consistent dmg flow, every time our dogs expired it gave us guaranteed a demonic core proc for each dog dying, now its 50% chance per dog, so we can get 0 cores and be shard starved after.4)The dmg profile has shifted again, in the end of DF dmg was split well between different pets outside of burst, imps did damage, now its mostly grimoire fell guard and the new dog. The problem with this is they both melee, you can rot them and that would be enough for demo to lose 50% of the dmg, literally, and on higher ratings people will be doing that. And 5) CC is still in place, but overall dmg is low unless you are on free cast basically, its undertuned at the moment. So no, demo is not S, on high mmr it is most likely the worst warlock spec at the moment

[@jpt9530]

Enhance behind the tanks is rough.. god why does blizz do this to us?

[@Flarkness]

I don't know friend, but the people have spoken :(

[@jmck9982]

What is the aoe sharpen blade? Does storm of destruction work with sharpen blade now or always did or something else?

[@Flarkness]

sweeping strikes!

[@lettersclinical]

After this make the SSJ super saian glowing yellow finale pvp tier list

[@jcline87]

as much as I love Frost DK dw I can't see Blizzard not nerfing them before the season.. Funholy it is!

[@iVibeBruh]

Ppl must don’t know how oppressive starfall going to be. Effortless big boy padding. Best cc in the game. Great mobility, good to great survivability , base capping etc. idk why ppl hate the boomchicken it’s def S

[@poetofnoreturn7708]

Because a lot of r1 boomy players tested it in blitz extensively and some of them are even swaping mains after that. People arent even playing starfall beacuse its usles, in most comps and maps people play solo target because healing is so high and there is no dampening, starfall does 0 impact, in the current state because of healing mostly any team fight at all is a troll. Boomy will be good in blitz, but starfall has nothing to do with it

[@bkeith1005]

dropping mw to B tier is insane. their absolute dominance via mobility as a flag carrier alone for blitz makes them irrevocably A minimum.

[@Flarkness]

the arena tier list and battleground blitz tier list is separate, in bg blitz they are S tier. you can see it at the end of the video.

[@Ernwed]

will frost dk be viable in 1v1 thanks to the added mobility?

[@heroman1322]

I think Flarkness hates Shadow Priest.. It's no worse than a "B-tier" rating and the hero talents are pretty fun!

[@ragmority]

Still hate dr*ids so much it's unreal.

[@robertfarrow3218]

Just watched a beta burst damage video where brewmaster killed in about 4sec, beating most dps specs. Had to laugh.

[@jonathannoble7657]

This looks better than your last.

[@Beta880408]

Ret pala ranked to high dude ... Its a B tier with dmg output ... with all utility and everything maybe A- ... NOT S FOR SURE u say ret pala are in same tier with Frost mage and DK ??? rly ???

[@Flarkness]

well, first of all when would the utility and everything be REMOVED from ret paladin. like is there a ret paladin without it? if not, then the bottom is A tier. also, I explained every reason in the video. if you want, feel free to make your own tier list and we'll see who gets it closer!

[@r-ex2945]

​@@Flarknesswhen you remove the utility than ret is just a wheelchair mid range dps. Also our hardest hitting ability Templar strike the second strike needs us to be melee and without freedom or horse we can never get close to a good range dps. Frost mage is totally owning us well played. With freedom on cooldown a lot of ranges can just slow us.

[@bambamsnots1221]

Rsham wouldn’t run rain in arena. They would run farseer that leans heavily into insta cast heals for arena. Unleash life and riptides summoning ancestors that heal and bubble people when they fade. And a beefier earth shield with the utility they have, they are A tier.

[@Flarkness]

yeah I was really confused about that as well. the healing rain/acid rain combo just seemed like no chance of success. the "rsham treants" tho, now that I can get behind!

[@bambamsnots1221]

@@Flarkness yup. Now healing/acid raid is a sleeper talent for blitz. I can spin flags like crazy with it.

[@CamMoralesFinance]

Shadow priest as a d tier is diabolical

[@Flarkness]

was there a spriest in the d tier?

[@ivenslaercio6474]

Is demo too bad?

[@shadowbanned3044]

Hm I just don't understand how SV hunter can be B tier. Makes no sense whatsoever, especially when assa rogue is S tier and feral has stronger buildings than ever. Also, tankyness got buffed, damage is good, rotation got easier, got more CCs... The tier list seems not to be based on actual data and power.

[@Flarkness]

where did you want it to be?

[@lesbiehonest8914]

Assas may be good but i heard you hate your life while playing it. I might be getting pve mixed up with pvp though.

[@M4mba98]

DK defs still gimped into uselessnes with those since Legion existing modifiers

[@Flarkness]

think I would have to heavily disagree, though I don't like those breath & cold heart mods for sure.

[@M4mba98]

I'm talking about defensive nerfs. Like the Dragonflight nerf to Death Strike after the Spellwarden interaction. Spellwarden got removed, modifier still in place. On top of that comes the general -50% effectiveness on Death Strike. On top of that comes the fact that almsot every spec got a MS these days. On top of that dampening makes DS and AMS useless (which for itself is not a problem, but combined with the other circumstamces....) Long story short. DK has too weak defs for its intended playstyle. At least all Death Strike modifiers should be removed for good. Probably even changed how it scales. Something like Death Siphon. Edit: I'm a 2s player mainly. Might be different in 3s with no dampening in the beginning and external CD's/ support. However historically it is the same sh*t. Physical classes will shred you into pieces. And magic classes will win in dampening.

[@gavinm2680]

Sad seeing spriest be so bad after all the cool visuals and stuff they did

[@Flarkness]

honestly it might be better than I expect I don't know why I'm having so much trouble placing it higher

[@jcline87]

DK's rise!

[@khiryislive]

I would leave mistweaver in Low s maybe A they will be gods in solo rbgs

[@Flarkness]

the arena tier list and battleground blitz tier list are separate. they remain S tier in bg blitz.

[@BackyardPvP]

I do not think frost dks are s tier, maybe A tier if you are high xp with it, unholy still ahead imo this is just watching duels in beta

[@Flarkness]

would have to provide some rationale on what lowers them a tier, because right now I'm still feeling S. (for frost dk)

[@BackyardPvP]

@@Flarknessyeah I’m not sure why , they did a tuning update and the duels started to change from what I saw

[@Flarkness]

ah yeah duels don't really matter and fdk has never really shined there since it scales up the more people it can put into goes.

[@meattwinkie6208]

Arms is B

[@Mikelive55]

Still can't take you seriously based on the entire shadowlands xpac of toxicity by you running those RBGs lol. Traumatized is an understatement.

[@Flarkness]

darn bro

[@Altarknight]

Holy in all list is bottom..main reason; low in damage???? Wtf .. more mobility then disc and more healing...all is copy paste

[@r-ex2945]

Holy paladin cant win the mana game is while its lower than the other healers. Also its easier to shut down holy paladin than a disc priest.

[@silence568]

Always mention the sources

[@Flarkness]

lol

[@SIIKAP1]

Nah, Ele is S tier all day.

[@endofexistence2149]

Havoc is doing pretty bad dmg in the prepatch and the hero talents aren't helping the class much.

[@kalleanka2796]

S+ or god tier could have been neat. I feel like the S tier needs more separation

[@Prince-qk9xc]

how in the hell is unholy and frost s tier??????

[@Flarkness]

for every reason explained in every video I've made lol

[@vadyazmey]

👍

[@taftvalue]

xD

[@evisturus3939]

First