The Grand Seiko Mistflake is Cheaper AND Better than a Rolex

The Grand Seiko Mistflake is cheaper and better than a Rolex Yacht-Master 42 in titanium. A lot cheaper and a lot better, in fact.
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Grand Seiko Mistflake SBGE285
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[@watchfinder]

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[@vegass04]

I'd take the Rolex over any Grand Seiko any day of the week. I've never seen GS that I like. Maybe some divers but they are usually 44mm which disqualifies them from my tiny wrist.

[@josepht.7937]

Grand Seiko is the top choice! Functionality and beauty at it's best!

[@vegass04]

@@josepht.7937 N aaa. That's like just your opinion dude.

[@TickTalkology]

@@vegass04and vice versa bro, your opinion remain yours only

[@fishheadbreakroom]

I really wanted one of these but no one would tell me "its a solid investment" or "it'll always go up in value". I have a burberry hat and i need a rolex so I can look like the waiter, the car sales guy, or the hairdresser. I bet they'd sell one of these GS watches to just anyone without a waiting list. ok sarcasm off its a magnificent watch and I could not love it more.

[@nickgee7291]

don't forget my real estate agent or the guy I got my first car from!

[@PhilbyFavourites]

I appreciate your sarcasm - and I’m not being sarcastic 👍🏻👍🏻

[@Aladdin139]

Look at the sweep seconds hand , and ask yourself why Rolex they don't have the same?? Now we know that such an engineering technology is Grand Seiko 's only , spring drive is absolutely a revolutionary legend

[@heathwasson7811]

I'm an engineer, and feel the need to clear something up. Titanium is NOT stronger than steel. It has a higher strength to weight ratio, which is not the same thing as being stronger. If you have two meter long 50mm diameter bars (one in steel, one in titanium), the steel bar is the stronger of the two. The titanium bar will be lighter. Now you can make the Ti bar stronger than steel by increasing it's diameter, say to 60mm, and it will still be lighter, but it will be larger. A Ti structural member must be bigger than a steel member to support the same load, but even at the increased size it will still be lighter. A steel case watch is stronger and more durable. The only real advantage of Titanium is making the watch lighter, and more corrosive resistant than some steels in certain environments.

[@Gigachad-hb7ji]

Cap. Rolex meatrider spotted.

[@titititi2549]

Thanks for your comment, very interesting.

[@dingk4424]

Yes, metal titanium is not as strong as 316L stainless steel, but GS uses titanium alloy, they called high-intensity titanium, which is stronger than 316L stainless steel. So at least for GS watch using titanium, not only lighter, but stronger

[@heathwasson7811]

@dingk given the common misunderstanding of tensile strength, I wouldn't believe a single thing coming out of the mouths of Seiko marketing unless it's been confirmed by a 3rd party materials lab. The amount of shear bullshit Rolex has foisted on the community regarding 904l is a perfect example. There is absolutely zero reason for selecting 904l over 316l for watch applications. They just wanted to use something different than everyone else so that they could heavily, and falsely, imply that it is a superior metal and worth a premium. 904 is softer and more easily scratched than 316, its only positive attribute is corrosion resistance, which Rolex touts all the time. Of course they're implying that it's better for resistance to saltwater, but I work in the offshore and marine industry specifically, and we use 316l for most marine applications. 904 is only selected when a part or assembly is going to constantly be exposed to other caustic industrial chemicals. Problem is no one wearing a $10,000 dollar watch really comes into contact with those chemicals in daily wear.

[@alvinmick218]

I really appreciate your explanation. Thank you for the clarity.

[@valter_vava74]

Substantially more elegant and refined than the Rolex. Which is a recurring theme in the Rolex vs Grand Seiko debate.

[@________2705]

yes... but your business partner/neighbor (that you want to impress) has never heard of GS... so what do you do ;)

[@valter_vava74]

@@________2705 if, regardless of your personal opinion on a watch - ie. being a worse option than another - you buy the watch you like less to impress others, as you described, then you already failed in life.

[@michaelbishop1]

I bought a GS recently as I had an epiphany. Seiko is completely justified in creating quartz luxury watch by whatever means they have and rightly claim it as part of its heritage and that claim is superior to any other watch maker. Grand Seiko is great branding to stake out that ground.

[@proarcher6438]

I agree. I’d actually proudly purchase a quartz GS and wear it every day as its a wonderful part of their heritage

[@jeffostrander2082]

It is superior to the Rolex in every way.

[@jeffostrander2082]

@@SmithBroNathan Form follows function. A formula 1 car is beautiful because of it's purposefulness. Once you understand the hand finishing process grand seiko implements along with the cleverness of it's movement the Victor becomes clear.

[@Jeguia85]

@@SmithBroNathan Design perspective is the point! Lol GS is for the horologist, Rolex is for investors.

[@dukes70]

Except the bracelet…still!!!

[@bigwangmark]

@@SmithBroNathan Rolex is about as boring as it gets fro design. Yes they have some nice looking watches but it's all rinse and repeat mostly from a design point of view. Also the prints on the Oyster Perpetual range are really cheap and tacky looking eg the palm leaves and new Celebration-motif dials.

[@anorax001]

@@bigwangmark The Rolex Explorer II with white dial is a nice design and a better comparison to the SBGE285.

[@mondrayuk]

The way that GS are going, Rolex cannot come anywhere close. So much to GS that it takes time with research to know what they are all about. It took me at least two years before I got a Spring Drive as initially I was not able to grasp what they have been doing. Now I know, my SLGA009 White Birch is the watch that has set the bar for others to beat.

[@mell3109]

If Grand Seiko put half of the effort into design of their bracelets as it did to polishing and had a cool micro adjustment then they would take off I think. The amount of times I hav3 walked away from a sale because of this grrrr

[@davidr2802]

I wonder how many people who complain about GS bracelets have the tinfoil ones of a 5 digit rolex. For the record I have both (and 6 digit Rolexes) and love em.

[@Not-a-bot222]

I honestly don’t think many average buyers think about the micro adjust. It’s an enthusiast thing to care about. Otherwise, brands like IWC wouldn’t be around with 4,000.00 ETA movements

[@fxn]

Same, the bracelets just don't cut it for me either (compared to Rolex). Neither the typography or the hands. I've tried several, but just don't click enough to buy them.

[@thomasdavis8117]

​@@davidr2802never in my life have I heard someone complain about the lack of micro adjust on a day-date that costs 10 times the average Grand Seiko but with these watches it's the first thing out of everyone's mouths.

[@markroher3084]

I’ve had this watch for a week and the honeymoon is still going strong. It’s just amazing really comfortable to wear and looks awesome too.

[@finickybits8055]

I went with SBGE205 for my GMT Spring Drive. To appease the titanium itch, I grabbed a Casio Oceanus OCW-S5000AP-2AJF, the JDM Indigo Manta. Damned thing is smarter than my phone 😅

[@KC-bv9kf]

Salute!

[@BonnerRepublik]

How does GS still not have on-the-fly adjustable bracelets? It's baffling.

[@davidr2802]

For the same reason your teenager never listens to you. Because.

[@RayMelville]

They probably see themselves as watchmakers not bracelets makers

[@Not-a-bot222]

@@RayMelville yes!

[@PhilbyFavourites]

@@davidr2802 fortunately I’ve never owned a teenager. £250,000 from aged 0 to 18 is a marvellous disincentive…

[@JDMism]

⁠@@PhilbyFavourites if you’re worried about spending £250,000 over 18 years, you probably shouldn’t be watching a luxury watch channel 😂

[@jonathanphillips967]

I've owned this watch for 3 weeks now and I absolutely love it. It's robust yet elegant, it's a sports watch but so refined. It drips detail from the dial to the polish. And (ok, hate away), it's not a Rolex which when worn screams "Won't you ask me about my watch?"

[@bondjamesbond9041]

You made a good choice. The Grand Seiko is a much better watch than a Rolex. It is better built and will be more reliable. Rolex watches are over rated. The power of advertising has raised public awareness as the Rolex brand being the pinnacle of watch making. In reality yes Rolex can make a good watch but their are superior watches including Grand Seiko. You don't need a watch that says "Won't you ask me about my watch?" as you already know that the Grand Seiko is at the pinnacle of watch making. Enjoy your purchase!

[@jstogdill]

I know I’m in the minority but I prefer the version with the black dial. More legible for old eyes.

[@alvinmick218]

Grand Seiko is really making beautiful watches. Thank you for the excellent video! Well done 🥃

[@watchthis7620]

Gorgeous photography as usual Andrew, but I wish you had taken 5 seconds to remove your greasy fingerprints from the lower case front - as shown at 6.05 onwards. Come on - you are better than that! 😉⌚⌚⌚😉

[@Yorkshiremadmick]

You nailed it. And blew the yacht master out of the marina. Well Done.

[@462410doctor]

Literally coming here after your video on THE CALL Andrew, talking about within chronometer spec ;)

[@stevemoreno6241]

I just bought a SBGE253 Spring Drive GMT. Love it.

[@michael-ym7qe]

Wearing on every day since 5 months. It's the best watch I can imagine.

[@andoletube]

I love this Grand Seiko. I'd give my left arm to own one...oh wait...

[@M_MTsc]

I wear my GS GMT way more than my GMT Master II. I can't stop looking at the finishing and the sweeping hand. Never mind the movement in the back every time I take it off or put it on.

[@tyronepalma3854]

Gorgeous watch, though I think I'd prefer it with a standard polished bezel with nothing written on it

[@kaunas888]

People do not buy Rolex because presumably it is the "best" watch in terms of quality/value; they buy Rolex because of the snob value of having something that is really really expensive.

[@anorax001]

Grand Seiko is for the owner, Rolex is to display to other people. 😁

[@inquisitorofthegodemperor8434]

@@anorax001 Most people, including watch collectors are vain and shallow, Rolex has made a great market out of them

[@anorax001]

@@inquisitorofthegodemperor8434 I am sure not everyone is like that. I know there are some people who simply love Rolex and don't care about what other people say. But yes Rolex has over priced their watches and speculators and dealers have taken advantage of that.

[@mitch20003]

@@anorax001 for al ot but there are still quite a few that enjoys a rolex. i always wanted one since I was little.

[@anorax001]

@@mitch20003 I do like the Rolex Explorer II but IMO it is too expensive. I ended up buying the GS equivalent which I love.

[@DS42296]

How is your lume blue and the GMT hand lume green, when in other reviews I've seen it's the opposite?

[@RandomGuyRandomNumber]

Seriously ? Grand Seiko versus Rolex again ? And you ruined the surprise - the GS is cheaper and better than the Rolex... who could possibly have anticipated that bombshell ?

[@andersjensen1499]

I bought this one - because I wanted something different and a Grand Seiko has been on my wish list for some time plus the fact that I already got Rolex watches. I went with this one because of the movement and the fact that it is in titanium and a GMT. My first real mechanical watch btw was the explorer II in 40 mm - a watch I still use a lot after having it for 18 years.

[@timchan334]

Im seeing dust and fingerprints on the watch/video…you guys are slacking😂

[@xtrvette4412]

I believe that as long as they keep that power reserve on the dial, I will leave it for you guys to enjoy.

[@deanisplemoni]

Even just the writing of it puts me off.

[@markiangooley]

Some part of me is wanting a solar cell under the dial and a thermocompensated quartz movement accurate to 5 seconds a year. I’m not sure that anyone makes that.

[@vtechead1]

I chuckle when I see somebody showing off their Rolex, knowing they have been ripped off big time, but they don’t see it. Rolex created their own desire factor by clever advertising. Watch sellers and pawn shops etc, keep the hype going to line their pockets, and empty the pockets of customers who fall for the hype. The same applies to trainers, clothes, jackets etc etc, anything with a branded name stitched on to add more money to the price. It’s the world we live in these days, it’s all about wearing ‘names’ which people think brings some sort of respect or admiration their way. There will always be people with more money than sense, attention seekers looking for admiration, sad.

[@teruphoto]

2:26 I was seriously considering this but ultimately went with the Rolex Explorer II 16570. It would have been nice to add a titanium watch to my collection, but I found the Mistflake design to be too busy - quite rare for GS. BTW 6:12 the irony of praising finishing by using a shot with a big ugly thumbprint 😂

[@MrCollinsOne]

I own this watch since 1 year now and wear it in heavy rotation with omega aquaterra and Rolex submariner hulk as daily drivers. Still love this GS. I think it beats the Rolex in every aspect beside Prestige/flex, which is very welcome in a lot of situations

[@remus2001]

The moment GS upgrades its bracelet game I’ll be adding a few to my collection.

[@garyboyle695]

So the bracelet supersedes every other part of the watch?

[@timchan334]

Exactly, their bracelet is a joke

[@toxicshox10]

@@garyboyle695yes

[@thomasdavis8117]

You are aware they produce several models that have on the fly, on the wrist adjustable clasps something that no submariner can boast? Yet when they put a non adjustable clasp on their dressier pieces everyone loses their mind when Rolex does the same with the day date.

[@desallebui9844]

Grand Seiko, great case, dial and movement...however that bracelet is pedestrian. Grand Seiko has the ability to do a better bracelet, but they choose not to.

[@calindor19]

And size 44mm is too big

[@Chrissepisje]

Chunky boys. They day they make it 2mm thinner, they have my full attention. And yet I lust for a Shunbun to add as GS #3. Go figure.

[@leowjy]

I own the Grand Seiko SBGE285 the moment it was available at my nearest Seiko Boutique, and I still love it! I agree with everything mentioned in this video! Price, function, design, it is better in every way compared to any Rolex (except probably the bracelet)!

[@appleratpipe]

You're just poor lmao

[@user-to9lk8ix6h]

@@appleratpipe lol mad

[@lolollolol5654]

@@appleratpipe you just have no taste, thats way worse, becaus he can earn money, you cannot form taste!

[@leowjy]

@@appleratpipe salty much? Did anywhere in my post mention that I do not own any Rolex? Poor comprehension skills, you have.

[@rich2579]

I’ve contemplated adding the mistflake as my third GS in the stable.. however, I just couldn’t justify the price (don’t ignore the respective competition in that price range) and with no update up to the bracelet (micro adjustment)

[@KC-bv9kf]

For my own hunting, what are your options at that price range? Thanks

[@markfaust460]

I'm glad this watch doesn't have microadjustments on the bracelet, that would just kill the clean look, same design shortcomings would happen to a Nautilus if Patek put microadjustments on that classic.

[@Ray-gu5kp]

No micro-adjustment is a deal breaker I know over a dozen people that won't buy because this company does not listen to people

[@GeeeeVeeee]

I bought the Mistflake when it first came out so the honeymoon period is long gone. However, your videography makes me go "is that the same watch???"🤣

[@gtcih]

It sure is a beauty. I just don’t want to pay for titanium. Customers should be given a choice of metal IMO.

[@Pete_YT]

If only they would put the power reserve on the case back…

[@RamPatten]

Question for possible content: Do you think the GS Tentagraph could / should be hailed as the Daytona and Speedmaster killer?

[@jim2950]

P T Barnum said there is a sucker born every minute. That fits Rolex to a tee!

[@calindor19]

Isnt the size is 44mm? For many people is too big but is love but people stopl dont buy then go to omega

[@crx6198]

Snowflake and mistflake are the perfect statement of Japanese engineering

[@user-gx3nr1qh7w]

What is the resale value to the Rolex, is a good place to start !

[@noneofus007]

When comparing the tensile yield strengths of titanium and steel, an interesting fact occurs; steel is by-and-large stronger than titanium. This goes against the popular misconception that titanium is stronger than most other metals and shows the utility of steel over titanium. While titanium is only on par with steel in terms of strength, it does so at half the weight, which makes it one of the strongest metals per unit mass. However, steel is the go-to material when overall strength is the concern, as some of its alloys surpass all other metals in terms of yield strengths. Designers looking solely for strength should choose steel, but designers concerned with strength per unit mass should choose titanium.

[@MikeSmith-er1qs]

Better look, better movement, better craftsmanship, less expensive, and better movement. What’s not to like???

[@ken4747]

“…so now people are rethinking how titanium can fit in with their life energy.” 😂

[@g43654]

I want a GS Springdrive, but i haven't found any that makes me smile.

[@ShitKid1337]

Bold of you to assume, that anyone could actually buy one.

[@howardmckenna]

I think GS made the perfect watch in my eyes.

[@lamystorius]

If this watch was like 12.5 mm thick, I would sell all of my existing watches just to buy it and have it as my one-watch collection. 😓 please, thinner watches GS!

[@134679user]

6:04 how did you guys miss that huge thumb print...

[@loukasantoniou8054]

a timing bezel is far more usefull tthan a gmt bezel and can easer be used as a gmt bezel.

[@jedmccullough7809]

The difference is everyone who sees a rolex knows its a nice watch, most people would think this watch was some cheap watch. So do you want to defend your watch or just let people think your wearing a cheap watch.

[@Anon_Anon]

Items such as a house and stock can be cheaper than their retail value if they are less likely to increase in value. The same principle applies to watches.

[@DarkPa1adin]

The let down is the movement is not the latest 5day spring drive.

[@markhunstein1320]

"babe wake up, WatchFinder just posted why Grand Seiko is better than Rolex again" "Yes honey"

[@rafenwulf]

The GS is very desirable to me, a thing of beauty, including the spring drive movement. I hope I can afford one one day.

[@fearnpol4938]

It’s the clasp that stands a metre off from your wrist that killed it for me.

[@DrDarkStar68]

I will never watch the sweep of a Spring Drive second hand again without thinking of Barry White after a sip of Bailey’s.

[@ZeroSOFInfinity]

It has a GMT and Spring Drive moments. Obviously it's better than "boring" YM 42 Titanium. Only issue is the power reserve... kinda spoil the beauty of the dial.

[@charlieboylol527]

I’ve tried it on ,it’s a beautiful timepiece, thanks

[@watchthisspace2099]

The Rolex is for the snob, the GS for the connoisseur 😊

[@anorax001]

That's my watch. I wear it every day. Great casual and formal watch.

[@e36boy]

I am interested! Hopefully a 40mm diver is next for GS

[@markiangooley]

In the original novels, James Bond wore a Rolex. I am convinced that this has saved Rolex from bankruptcy at least once…

[@NimsChannel]

I have a titanium baby snowflake. I'm not a fan. I dislike the lightness. Pretty watch though, sits in my safe.

[@douglasladowski6342]

Drop the power indication and it's great.

[@urbanracer032]

Wish they would offer up a blue dial variant at some point.

[@Pete_YT]

Case is too thick on the GS. They need to slim it down.

[@billbrecht707]

The Grand Seiko looks great! I love that it is a GMT! Great color, great layout!

[@jeanaponte8662]

Please do a review of the GS sbgx261 or 265 🙏🏼

[@BradyPuryear]

So first off I do not like the Rolex brand. BUT…. GS did crap the bed here in a few ways. 1st it’s 14mm thick vs 11.5mm thick and with its short lug to lug it makes it feel even more stubby & thick. 2nd the bracelet & clasp are just bad. Brietling does better on their $4k watches and even Oris makes a better bracelet than GS at 1/4 the price. 3rd although spring drive is cool, having to have watches sent back to the one workshop in Japan that can service them is a waiting time 4-5x that of other brands. All that being said this watch is gorgeous on wrist and I wanted to buy it but for the price tag I just can’t compromise on those complaints. Thinner & better bracelet would be an instant buy.

[@anorax001]

The SBGE285 is actually a very small watch on my wrist (16.5cm). It is smaller than my Citizen and my Apple Watch Ultra. I thought it would be too big until I actually tried it on at the GS dealer. The images are deceiving. Agree on the clasp - Breitling is better with micro-adjust but it makes their clasps very large. As for service at least in my country I would not trust any local watch repairer here. We mostly have badly run 3rd party repairers. In the case of GS I would prefer to have it serviced in Japan in the original watchmaking studio.

[@BradyPuryear]

@@anorax001 yeah still too thick, I’ve tried it on a few times in person.

[@GeorgiGeorgiev-ne9ps]

Lack of the micro adjustment is one of those many japaneese things that spreads from the watches to the Toyotas and if you had japaneese hifi from 90s you would then get the idea and why it makes it so japaneese

[@ulkigmeme2703]

Just get rid of the hour reserve and it's perfect

[@artholyoke]

I have owned a Rolex. I think overrated. I am going to buy a Grand Seiko but I’m trying to figure out which one. Snowflake is probably in the lead

[@r2stik]

Seiko 5 Honda Super Cup Limited Edition

[@RayMelville]

How about posting a video about how Grand Seiko makes their text distortion free on a textured dial?

[@rlj0002000]

Nice watch. Except for the fingerprints etc.

[@DrNitin14]

This is a good watch I owned it for a while. But there were two things that stopped it from being a great watch. 1)The dial colour. While nice sometimes, it often blended too much with the surrounding case. There was just not enough contrast. Some lighting it would look grey other times beige. 2) The bracelet. It has no micro adjust which is a huge downside for a sports watch like this. It has two half links but I was always a quarter inch off the perfect size. The only plus side is that they made the clasp sit more flush with the bracelet and got rid of that hideous overhang.

[@anorax001]

Both good points and as an SBGE285 owner I do agree. I also have a very expensive Citizen Eco-drive watch which does have a 3 point micro-adjustment and I still struggle with that watch bracelet too even after experimenting with adding and removing links. So both the Citizen and the GS I wear slightly loose as my wrist swells up a lot when I get warm/hot. The problem is not unique to GS and does affect a lot of other premium brands. The best micro-adjust I have experienced is that on Breitling watches but the downside is the clasp is very long which makes it an uncomfortable fit for those of us with slender wrists.

[@jonathanphillips967]

I own the watch but I really wish it had the blue heated steel second hand. Just a ping of colour would be SO classy.

[@JuanSegarra-td6yr]

T-fit is needed for an expensive watch.

[@VicharB]

Between this and the new Yacht-Master, GS would be my choice for sure.

[@mitch20003]

what about zenith chrono. Those are awesome

[@user-lk4nk1gy7h]

Beautiful not so cheap technical marvel.

[@mtp1979]

Weight is more a criteria for explorers than yachting. Therefore this watch is a better choice than the Explorer 2 😊

[@OrbitalRescueSage]

You can actually buy the SBGE 285, whereas you need to beg Rolex to let you buy the YatzeeMaster in about 5 years.

[@MichaelTaylor-oy7sf]

Beautiful watch! Thanks

[@somerandomperson8282]

I am all for Watchfinders current strategy of reducing Rolex prices by constantly running videos pretending that all other watch brands are better... thanks Watchfinder keep it going!

[@chrishoyt7548]

Andrew, are your boat shoes dry? Tom's Wellies are. Great vid. Thank you. Enjoy the Victoria Day weekend. It's hard to pick a GS with so many to choose from. I will narrow it down. Can you compare this GS with a comparable Omega? Thank you, Chris Regards, Chris

[@d.gvlogs.7934]

Where can I buy this one? 😢

[@nathanshelby1446]

I love this watch one of my favorite Gran Seiko’s for sure

[@scottfrench6128]

Looks to compare more to the Explorer II

[@idevric]

No comparisons.. exp2 is iconic, but this is perfection

[@perpardorf9917]

Dave Allen will love that watch, as well as all the other models where there is a need to display the 24 hour scale. Buy a watch at an adult price and teach your child to read the time.🤗

[@paulwood7486]

Simply outstanding I won't one I can dream 😊

[@johnwheelwright799]

Lovely; the lume!!

[@dmarti47]

Please stop praising GS or else it will become unattainable, just like Rolex. (Secretly: thank you for this beautifully compelling showcase of the GS SBGE285.)

[@lansiman]

nice seiko you have there