The Great February Debate feat. Flats, Eskay & Freedo

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Timestamps
0:00 Introductions & Opening Thoughts
19:55 Projectile Size Changes - Dumbing The Game Down?
45:00 Role Passive Changes
1:01:00 Dev Communication & It's Failures
1:34:50 Overwatch's Reputation: Can It Be Saved?
2:11:21 Health Pool Changes
2:25:05 Ranked Changes
2:42:32 Competitive Points & Jade Weapons
2:57:52 Concluding Thoughts

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 9th February 2024. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why let SVB know on his stream where he would really appreciate your subs while he is trying to get into the Partner Plus Programme (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) or his second channel The Soak (youtube.com/@TheSoak ) where he does movie, TV & anime breakdowns! The best way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-february-debate-2 Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@slaiff.]

Hi, so looking forward to listening to this episode, so excited for season 9. I just switched from Spotify over to the music streaming platform Tidal, for us Tidal listeners we would love to have the Group Up podcast there so we can listen in as well :) not sure the ramifications of that, but if it's not too hard to do, it'd be greatly appreciated!!

[@ckasunder289]

The glasses podcast

[@pokvirus5705]

The glasses up podcast

[@bobothebob4716]

The average age of OW players aint going down. That's probably why they had to make the bullets/projectiles bigger.

[@User-pu3lc]

What a spectacle!

[@dadrako1581]

@@User-pu3lctake my like and leave.

[@john-paul3271]

The Intellectuals.

[@gTr4yr4y]

Freedo looks like a police officer when he sips his mug. Patrolling the streets of masters

[@TheChryystal]

He looks cuter than that. He looks like a RETIRED COP!!! ... pension bb. jk lol

[@BloodRain222]

LMAOOOO

[@Real_MisterSir]

Imagine Freedo flying around in Dva's police mech scolding egocentric Masters players that are tantrum throwing xD

[@TheChryystal]

How could you have you given me a dream wrapped in a nightmare? Dva... ugggggg @@Real_MisterSir 😨 Though tbh it is one of her best skins. ...

[@joegarrison5911]

The mean mean streets or masters.

[@jessereaney2818]

I think we should appreciate how good of a host SVB is! He tries his best to equally distribute the floor to all his guests, interjecting when he feels he can. He comes back to topics that have been left behind. He realizes when someone wants to say things. He knows his guests well enough to know their stances and knows where to direct questions and pivot discussions, while also pivoting the discussion back to the main point. Great job SVB!

[@umbralowl]

I hate how the new Jade weapons just look like shiny green metal instead of the light and dark green hue rock that Jade is

[@locomotivetrain3797]

To be fair this is most likely the worst skin we,ll get

[@Thr3leven]

I kinda like em.

[@umbralowl]

@@Thr3leven I don't mind them they look fine in some lights, but I hope they change it to make it look more like stone than metal

[@comfysage]

it really didn;t surprise me since the ow2 default skins looked awful compared to their originals

[@marigolden_mariposa]

they won't change them at this point. They just changed the name from what it should've been: Emerald bcuz they thought it sounded better. which just shows how dumb they are because they look nothing like jade so the name is just stupid ​@@umbralowl

[@its-tinyavocado]

They did it. They changed literally everything, before changing imos.

[@Tutualoe]

Or going back to 6v6..

[@JoshDun6]

maybe you should take those glasses off@@Tutualoe

[@gsoma4022]

What's IMOS??

[@pandolam4513]

@@gsoma4022 immortality

[@vopcracker3193]

​@@gsoma4022immortalities. Bap lamp, Suzu invulnerability, etc

[@CyberDemon1]

These 3 hour podcast are the only times I feel like I have friends 🤣

[@nidhishshivashankar4885]

That’s wild bro (ik you’re kidding but still)

[@MidnaTTP]

I’ll be your friend 😊

[@plaguepix3l]

We are all friends here!!!

[@ecclecticsayonce5131]

what’s ur ow bestie

[@megamecha100]

Wait we're friends?

[@DRUKENHOBO]

as a tank player ive already prepped for they new season by stocking my steam backlog.

[@DriplessShrimp]

You sir are genius. Elden Ring is very fun

[@BeastMode-bw2ry]

I've prepped for the season by installing Netflix with Avatar the last airbender ready (just in case I get mad), adjusted the controls on pharah for the rework, changed my sensitivity and have a bag of potato chips and chocolate milk ready in the kitchen.

[@DRUKENHOBO]

@@BeastMode-bw2ry pal world is like ark but with Pokémon, quite relaxing.

[@elpapisaint]

I'm definitely enjoying the Oblivion grind again. A very good replacement for me

[@neodaltiair8624]

The discussion of the lore is so true. How many in game events could bring people back if there was a genji hanzo event with a 5 min cutscene and new skins?

[@Jae_JETT]

Dude we need to talk about ultimates. They are pretty much useless at this point and get completely out classes by cooldowns. What’s going on dude.

[@DriplessShrimp]

True and real! The fact that dead eye is still in the game is a crime. They should add ult reworks. Rework one shot ults and remove immos.

[@andrecarvalho9144]

I think dps ults would be slightly better with the new passive bc they cut off the healing and some of them do area damage but yeah some of them are very weak

[@tryingtochangemyways5074]

​@@DriplessShrimpI fear widowmaker more than Cass ult

[@matteoschlechtleitner4550]

Eskay's idea of having characters comunicate staff is GREAT! I know it would be expensive to make, but omg, everytime I want to feel passionate about OW again, I watch the cinematics.

[@midmoose]

what a lineup for all the recent news, thanks svb and glasses group

[@ianhunt1866]

SVB has some good rants in here. Whenever he starts going off it's always a treat 😅 Another great episode

[@e.b.9702]

Imagine being excited about FUGLY jade weapons...

[@DriplessShrimp]

Green crayons were cool when I was 5. Not as a OW weapon

[@MidnaTTP]

Yeah they’re so shit

[@brown9671]

Imagine that being what you care about this patch

[@michaelpurdon7032]

I think there's more to raising health than just a backwards way of merging damage. There's a lot more space to balance heroes with a bit more health to okay with. They've had to bounce numbers up and down, over and over because the breakpoints were just to narrow. I think this is an attempt to actually fix some problems and not just the problem that's flavour of the month. When we call for reverting things we often forget why things moved in the first place

[@secretlyaslug2325]

I guarantee that Genji blade with new break points with Blue Beam and Nano can be way better or more flexible. For years it's been so awkward for them to balance.

[@chigwom7894]

They just can’t balance there game. Simple. This is the easy way out instead of fixing shi

[@josephreynolds2401]

​​@@chigwom7894It fixes key problems with trying to keep health and damage values out of the decimal ranges if they want to fine tune. It should have been implemented in OW1. Even decimal values is better than trying to keep the bulk of the roster around 200-300 hp despite the issues whole number values create. Although considering your tone, the other people commenting seem to understand basic math a lot better than you. I'd recommend you take some maths classes before you make simple mistakes in your feedback. That's the kind of feedback the devs throw out.

[@City.of.Rancho.Cucamonga]

Interesting take

[@chigwom7894]

@@josephreynolds2401 not reading all that sis 💀

[@daedpuul5054]

This episode was amazing! it touched upon a lot of topics/experiences I've dealt with/thought of. It was highly enjoyable and I like the self awareness of the participants and the wanting to expand upon understanding of what Overwatch 2 could use to improve with communication/management story telling etc.

[@leifericson7665]

I haven't played OW for months now but I always tune in to see what you guys have to say. Keep up the good shows SVB!

[@megamecha100]

SAME high five! ✋

[@CoconutYoyo]

This conversation reminded me of the fact that they implemented lore and world building in ow1 through their map designs which we dont see anymore in ow2. Examples like the payload on route 66 or the airport destruction in Numbani. There is a lot of ways to tell or hint and stories and world building in game that doesnt need the cinematic budget to move things along and create interest. Even just using billboard and posters to hint at things going on in the world. There is also so much tech that they were developing for pve that seems not to have been used. What happened to all the weather tech. They could introduce some of it at random or maybe over a weekend where maps have sand storms or rain storms for some of the games to mix things up. Its seems like there is ways to introduce some sparks into the game they just dont have the staff to do it or they just have a bottom line to feed and all of the efforts are going into pumping out skins that no one can afford. Just my opinion...

[@daniel-tv4hx]

I think Freedo was right about junkrat, his mines already feel very big compared to how they look so making the hit box even bigger is going to really mess some people up, eventually we'll all get used to it but for awhile we will be hit thinking there's no way that touched me.

[@trunnellstaverntales6228]

Makes sense to me, they're explosives! Proximity detonation seems reasonable.

[@indeboss]

SVB was doing nothing but dropping facts throughout this episode, glad to see him being this passionate about the game at again and voicing his opinion alongside the guests'. Especially about the PvE themes: I'm convinced that much more people would care about the heroes' personal struggles rather than the Null Sector shenanigans. That's what made a lot of the animation shorts iconic: they were about the characters' struggles and emotions rather than "how do we defeat this robot mommy".

[@jessereaney2818]

Can't wait to see how this goes...!

[@duel2803]

beat me to it

[@Youknowmikekhan]

Saving this for my chores tm, so excited! We’re so back! Lol

[@thepoofster2251]

One thing i havent heard ppl talk about is support ult building speed. Supports that just healbot and build ult will get ult 20% slower due to the dps passive nerfing heals. Less lifeweaver trees and brig ults from farming heals. This could lead to a world where dps usually farm their first ult before defensive ults are charged, which will hopefully stop full holds on Dorado and similar maps

[@b23beatz]

A good support player is doing more than just heal bot to be fair, LW mercy is an exception obv but everyone else can weave damage in between healing to compensate

[@DNYLNY]

15:33 So true when Eskay said ppl didn't know the game when it came out. The first 6 seasons, no creator had Bap above B-tier, which I thought was crazy. I thought he was S since season 1.

[@elpapisaint]

He was S since season 33 of OW1 LOL

[@CesarCaballero-ui8tp]

Yeah bap has been up there since launch imo

[@JLM1PB]

1:59:00 and a few days ago Flat was acting all surprised when the narrative teams got deleted. This guy says everything and it's opposite honestly.

[@eagerinspirit]

he's got to act surprised to farm content. he probably sees the patch notes before he reacts to them for each season.

[@fastlikeabearfitness5422]

Eskays idea of the characters, fully voice acted, telling you you should play ranked, say based off hours you have on that character, voice lines to the player, is an incredible idea.

[@momdad1818]

Do you have a time stamp? 😵

[@ramennoodles1404]

Here I was so down bad for ow content I was going to start spilos dos guide (I listen as I drive (I drive for work))

[@libertyprime9307]

Freedo is the white Niel DeGrasse Tyson: _"These changes will make shots feel more accurate, I theorize. 🤓"_

[@Hous3ofpros]

all i want, is for them to make sub-groups for the passives. so that not ALL the dps have the same passive, like marksman-style dps could have a passive that ramps headshot damage each time you get a kill, so we can keep 1-shot in the game but only as a reward for hitting shots, not just outright. bruiser dps could have the same passive (healing debuff) and flankers could instead get the support passive so they can heal on the flank. something that helps the dps be effective, but in their category, instead of just being super strong while still leaving some behind bc the passive doesn’t help them

[@josephreynolds2401]

On-kill effects create boom or bust playstyles. Reaper used to pick up souls dropped after a kill to heal and he would dominate lobbies or flop like a wet noodle because he cant get the first kill (or access the dropped soul). Since they're pushing consistency, they're not going to add a snowball effect to a single character until the roster gets more heros.

[@LUCKIPUP]

change tank passive so it gives chain cc immunity of some type, some of the ways you can chain cc a tank out of playing the game is crazy.

[@Coachteach]

There is a direct quote in the patch notes that says they aimed to make time to kill the same. Up health pools, and upping damage from bullet size have the aim to balance each other out. Everyone is strangely theory crafting guessing which way ttk is going to go, which is impossible. But the truth is, if ttk is shorter or longer, they will rebalance to direct the game to the current ttk. Because that is their stated goal. So don't guess, eventually it will be the same, that's what's important.

[@comixfan]

I'd be interested in OWCS if Australia & New Zealand weren't being ignored by it.

[@Mikuroko69]

It's a small problem, and may not affect anything than how it already is, but I feel like they should've addressed queue time. With everyone saying DPS is the new "carry" role, and tank being the L role that got minimal changes, I feel like many players are going to try DPS out to see how it feels and there'll be less tank players, which will make it harder to find matches.

[@RelexGG]

The thing is at 22:50 that mechanics will be as hard cuz for example now u can 1hs and 1 body shot to kill a squishy as Cree, after the patch it will be 2 headshots. So it will be harder to actually kill someone but EASIER to do consisten damage. Finishing blows will be harder to get though

[@Lentizzz]

YESS!!! 3 Hours, 3 Top Guests, this gonna be good.

[@BAIARJ]

At 1:12:20 this is not a blizzard or Microsoft thing. This is basically how workers get treated in 90% of jobs in the capitalist system. What that dev went through I also experienced and I’m not in the gaming industry. That’s what companies do to workers every day in every business segment

[@GoodRNG]

As a medal rank nobody, I’m excited for the new heal passive. Playing majority of my games with 2 supports pocketing Orisa gives me hope that I can survive a few more scenarios as DPS on my own.

[@aussiecossie5816]

Tank passive should include a 50% reduction to crowd control effects. Since their role is to make space and dictate the fight.

[@YazzPott]

Rein players would cry even more, imagine a tank getting up after 1 second of shatter, oof

[@josephreynolds2401]

​@@YazzPottBut the tank's support system is also crippled if it's not a solo shatter. The stun time on other heroes is more than enough time to generate impact during the stun. Furthermore, disincetivizing a solo shatter on tank is exactly what the change would accomplish.

[@CesarCaballero-ui8tp]

I def wouldn’t say 50% but I mean that sounds like an interesting idea

[@BeeeboBaggins]

These debates are always so GREAT

[@thepoofster2251]

fave 4 on the podcast! All we need is Spilo squeezed in there!

[@ReasonableRadio]

"Nobody's come out better after watching tiktok" I knew this but saying clearly like that really hits

[@noahodum9737]

I hit my second highest peak on support season 1 of OW2 as diamond 1. The role needed absolutely 0 buffs, support players just whined about not being able to climb by healing and so they buffed the absolute shit out of them. If you can't hit sleep darts, nades, kunai, or your shots, why tf would you expect to climb in an FPS game? Support is the LEAST FPS like role in the game.

[@kayanono]

Had to check if this was an Your Overwatch video towards the end

[@Shzl47]

I'm gonna predict that Tanks end up getting a buffed version of the Heal Passive to either heal 40HP/s after 5s or the 20HP/s kicks in after 3.5s

[@DriplessShrimp]

That passive is so useless for a tank. If youre sitting out of a fight for 5 or 6 seconds youre doing something wrong

[@mrgoldenreset9590]

Well, heroes like Sigma can easily not take any damage for 5 seconds because of his barrier. Since he is a poke tank. Reinhardt (if his barrier isn’t take a lot of damage) can heal himself. Ball and Doomfist will have more uptime with their engages as sometimes, when you’re waiting to get healed, you usually chase for health packs, especially ball. The only heroes that doesn’t benefit this as much are D.VA and Zarya, but even then, it is nice to have that passive.

[@Shzl47]

I'd honestly like to see 40HP/s after 3.5s for tanks since they get focused so hard and Damage heroes will definitely be proccing their Passive on them alot.

[@christopher7692]

​@@mrgoldenreset9590I think you're underestimating how long 5 seconds is. In no world can a Reinhart durring a fight just hide for 10 seconds just to regen 100 health

[@mrgoldenreset9590]

@@christopher7692 it’s definitely possible if the fight was lost and he was retreating. Maybe it’s not useful during the midfight, however, it is still useful

[@EJW2003]

I’m so excited for this episode!!! Hard hitting cast 😎

[@exaltedexile6290]

Great podcast, thanks!

[@Korvmannen]

Great episode! For the follow-up on S9 changes I'd love to see at least one metal rank player included on the panel as well, so that the perspective includes this as well and not only T500 players.

[@leekyb3837]

Fredo droppin a Manny Fresh reference 3 min in was unexpected af

[@joemorphew8244]

Hot take: Things will die a lot faster even with more health, but not immediately. Meaning no insta blow ups from hanzo and junkrats etc but concentrated fire is going to be 100% more effective and overwhelming healing and killing the target. Projectiles are 50% bigger which is going to translate to a lot more shots hitting plus 20% reduced healing from the dps passive.

[@jayrichardson9746]

A use for souvenirs….the last person to kill in a team kill shows a souvenir animation for everyone to see 😂 To touch on the story stuff, I hope they do more too. That’s what originally drew me to the game Great show as always!

[@msacco36]

Hey SVB. Which is a better way to support the channel? Listening to the podcast on KZbin or on apple’s podcast app? Thanks!

[@goonjar34]

I only remember that song in the beginning from Midnights Club 3!

[@cheeekeygames]

SVB you're a Legend buddy! Great podcast and have a wicked time away!

[@henri_q]

It think it ultimate depends on whether or not the DPS passive stacks or not.

[@masterchiefyoumind]

Sym turrets might trigger the new dps passive (20% less healing for 2 seconds every hit I think but unsure if it stacks)

[@AarPlays]

Appreciate everyone taking the time to talk about this.

[@untapped8776]

I wonder if the hitbox changes get too out of hand if they should introduce a penalty depending on how off target you are. Eskay's discussion about the duality of the hitbox changes got me thinking of solutions to keep some element of skill to hitting insane headshots. It might be cool if they introduced a sort of fall-off on damage depending on how far off you are on a headshot. So a perfect headshot does max damage, but a headshot that's at the max hitbox range does less.

[@devincrenshaw4865]

That song Freedo was talking about was a banger on Need for Speed😂

[@echiisenpai9214]

1:32:26 Freedo saying the quiet thing out loud was a good breath of fresh air ❤

[@Youknowmikekhan]

Does dps passive effect health packs?

[@noahlistermann789]

I feel that so hard on the universe point. The lore of that game is so ripe with personality and full of what ifs. Series/pve mode/even like little bits and pieces in menus showing more of the characters personalities.

[@sulack]

It bugs me how broken Overwatch content creators are. Every justification for bad changes has the same argument. "Overwatch is not a serious competitive game" while the entirety of Overwatch content is about high Elo play. This is how Blizzards culture beats people down. I imagine the conversations go the same way inside the company. We are watching Overwatch creators souls die in real time, all in desperation to increase the OW audience.

[@jkvltra804]

They could have lowered everyones health by 50 and freedo would be praising the OW team. Guy is the ultimate company man and doesnt even work for the company lmao

[@thedofflin]

This patch is going to reward good positioning and cover usage. Like if you can avoid being shot at, that's massive value compared to the current patch. If people are able to hit everything on you when you are out in the open, you will get way more value playing in cover now. Personally, I didn't like that OW2 was becoming way more deathmatchy and the erosion of a front line, but if people hit everything now you will want to use cover and you will want to make use of your tank's damage mitigation. Edit: I agree that tank gets the biggest nerf though, so they might need to buff tank damage mitigation or, more importantly, _close-range damage_ so they pose a threat and can actually take space

[@jonasdowner]

aged like wine. good read. yours truly, the future

[@digitalhadoken]

dopamine patch goes crazy

[@thesquirtlesquad8446]

I’m hoping that they will have a visual or audio queue for being affected by the new passive. It is very easy for metal players to focus a purple HP bar because it is so apparent. Fingers crossed it is similarly obvious.

[@smithers87]

Excited!

[@ReasonableRadio]

The health pools going up is kind of nice honestly: specifically because it allows them to tune health more while keeping the numbers round. One 25hp bar is a more precise difference now.

[@recon1506]

What really makes me upset about season 9 is the health pool increase make TTK longer and slowling the game down more make it more of a poke meta

[@rogue4340]

Shouldn't, just have fun with new changes

[@THYnameISsarcasm]

Poke meta will hopefully be fun with the DPS passive. The only thing that sucked was getting stuck trapped in a match where your team doesn't have a Mercy pocket

[@6ftmouse349]

I mean they doubled the size of the bullets. TTK really isn’t going to be be longer. Also DPS passive will reduce TTK.

[@ofmoosenmen]

​​@@THYnameISsarcasmthis is going to fucking suck for the fast majority of tanks. Depending on the length of time the debuff lasts, if your tank doesn't have a shield, there will be a lot more hiding to wait out the debuff. Yet another dog shit tank meta, can't wait.

[@Coachteach]

There is a direct quote in the patch notes that says they aimed to make time to kill the same. Up health pools, and upping damage from bullet size have the aim to balance each other out. Everyone is strangely theory crafting guessing which way it's going to go, which is impossible. But the truth is, if ttk is shorter is longe or shorter, they will rebalance to direct the game to the current ttk. Because that is their stated goal. So don't guess, eventually it will be the same, that's what's important.

[@petraSwZ]

adding a new complicated currency so jade weapons are more exclusive but like, do they NEED to be? its a reward for playing its not the fault of people who are good and have been playing since ever that you never added anything else for them to spend the comp points. and also if someone is bad and/or doesnt play as much but doesnt like green why would they have to wait a year to be able to get a golden gun again? idk i also feel like letting your good visible players have access to the new thing at the start of the season isnt that bad

[@MaybeT0XIC]

Omg hearing « Taimou » was so nostalgic hahaha

[@vendetasebastian8867]

They are making changes for the love of change. Don't want to first implement in a mode where you can test them and give feedback. But them forcing it down your throat, then they act surprised about the backlash. It's just sad at this point

[@DriplessShrimp]

Yep! Imagine if there was a way to experiment with changes before they went live... Oh yeah ow1 had that.

[@vendetasebastian8867]

@@Truthforeals but there will be a majority that will have the same opinion. And at least they would try to fix it, not just throw stuff out and forget about it and call it a day. And let's be honest, it will take a long time until they will make any major changes like these again.

[@vendetasebastian8867]

@@Truthforeals expect them after some time playing on the new patch

[@vendetasebastian8867]

There we go..

[@madtonesbr]

Anyone got a link or title to the Seagull 2020 video Flats mentioned?

[@8401bman]

Ash dynamite is going to be really good with the healing reduction passive. If she hits a dynamite that ignites 3 people, all 3 people will receive 20% less healing

[@reggieparker404]

I got that Big Tymers reference immediately!

[@xsconflicttheory2784]

TLDR: At lower ranks, long range pokey kind of heros may be able to abuse the, otherwise irrelevant passive self heal by being able to continue poking after taking damage without taking the risk of being punshed by chosing to stay fighting, gambling on going unseen in lower rank matches. (Think high ground on Oasis City Center, for example) For the most part, I agree that the passive healing will me nearly irrelevant in many situations and at many levels of play. However, one scenario I see being buffed a lot can possibly be a common occurrence in, lets say, gold or lower ranks A lot of people are thinking about flankers but, not a lot of thought put into ranges poke and eliminations. Lets say on Oasis City center, theres a smart ashe on high ground as a team fight takes place, in many of these ranks, out of sight may be out of mind or, just ignored and inefficiently dealt with even if the value is recognized. In this scenario, an entire brawl can take place while she sits and gets free value, damage and potentially elims. If you have one other smart and aware player try to address her, Ashe may get the kill on that player after taking some damage. When normally, this would leave her weak and have to make the decision to leave the team fight for a health pack if the (lower rank) healers fail to recognize her need for heals. Now, while potentially unoticed, she can sit and maintian higb value, slowly gaining health and becoming less weak, while never having to make that tough decision to leave or be punished if dived and flanked This scenario could potentially extend further up using widow and quickly peakong when at half health, not long enough to take damage, thus kicking self heal while make shift jiggle peaking

[@madtonesbr]

I’d agree. For a DPS it would take 10 seconds of no damage to heal 100hp, so about 10-15 seconds to to get to full health. This really only benefits ranged flankers or assassins who can make themselves be ignored (like you said a smart Ashe or Arrge’s Hanzo). It won’t affect the gameplay of the vast majority of the player base.

[@MrJP6389]

Did they say Jade weapons was going to be completely gone after the year is up? I never got that impression from the blog post. What I got was that any left over points would be converted to the legacy currency and that it. In fact my own assumption was that Jade weapons would drop down to the gold weapon be gotten with the legacy points and a new weapon skin would replace Jade for that new year. I never got the assumption that Jade weapons would just completely be gone after the year is over. Maybe I missed the part where they said that or something.

[@bbott137]

(I'm not all the way through the podcast but) I've not seen people mention the DPS passive of healing nerf SPECIFICALLY screws over hog more than anyone. His survivabilty is tied to his self healing. And he is always being hit, essentially. So his healing just got a 20% nerf flat in most circumstances. Seems kinda counter productive when they just buffed and nerfed to get him into a good place after a year of being terrible.

[@adarshvinodkumar6333]

To be fair, most hog players just use the self heal for the damage reduction

[@belikebrett]

Ngl fuck hog

[@bbott137]

@@adarshvinodkumar6333 You sound like you dont play hog. If his healing didnt matter why would ana nade hard counter him so hard they had to change his healing resource to a bar instead of a button?

[@glasscolatv2417]

I agree on the point you guys are making about the dev's need someone to call the shots. I specially hate that Role Queue and Open Queue is a thing... Just go with 1 thing so you don't have to balance 2 main game modes...

[@CesarCaballero-ui8tp]

Good point, and also it creates two different communities which in turn makes queue times longer

[@kayanono]

Pretty sure we saw this patch at blizzcon already where they showed venture cause they have 250 hp and it looked like to me that maybe there was reduced healing? Hard to tell tho

[@SocialDesignFlaw]

Hmmm....predictions based on what's coming: - Tanks are not going to be able to get back into their armour health very often with these changes (More health + Dmg Passive) - Does Echo's duplicate take on the passive of the Role she copies? Or does she keep the DPS passive when going Winston/Moira/Brig? - DoT + Damage Passive is going to be nonsense with other Anti-heal effects (Boogieman incoming) Overall there's...a lot to be scared of, with staggered broken mechanics hitting and demanding new patches over the next couple of seasons, but the group here is right. It was time for a change and, despite this not being the direction it should have gone it, it's still better than what was being done this last year.

[@madtonesbr]

I’m guessing if Echo dupes a DPS she keeps the passive and otherwise wouldn’t

[@ncBadrock]

I think tanks will be least affected by the projectile size change, because tanks were so easy to hit even with the smaller projectiles.

[@jsmooth8655]

The Mannie fresh nod🙌🏾🙌🏾 it may not have went up commercially but it went up in the hood!

[@Phillospillo777]

I agree about the lore. We need new voice lines every season. At least in the pregame area. Some of them are getting really old, and I’ve only been playing the game for like a year and a half. I imagine older players don’t even put their headphones on till the door opens.

[@Bry1an]

Is there one single positive thing that can come out of adding a entirely new worthless currency to a mode that already gives worthless currency? Is it just to fuck over veteran players that supported the game for years? Is it really that bad if the super ogs have a new cosmetic toy for the next YEAR, only for the currency to turn back into the old currency anyway? What is the point.

[@sparquisdesade]

Cmon, be real, if you're in the group of " veteran players that supported the game for years" you already bought every gold gun ever for all the heroes an are jus buttmad you can't spend your years of stockpiled comp points to instantly get the new weapon skins for every hero on day one. If anything we need MORE stuff to spend comp points on. There's so many neat ideas they could do. Imagine how cool it could be if they let you buy "dye kits" for your skins with comp points, allowing you to fully customize the color pallet of your skins. Or buy custom titles. For instance a custom comp title could cost 5k comp points per "word slot" up to three slots an then varying words an adjectives could be bought to "equip" into those title spots. Or even weapon addons like a laser sight similar to the one on Sombra's talon skin.

[@Nayutune]

Just like they have done with a premium coins and legacy credits currency, as well as them reselling all the time-limited event skins OW1 players were grinding for.

[@Bry1an]

@@Nayutune yeah but this is literally the same coin. You buy the same things, and after a YEAR, they just go back to the being the actual same currency. Its asnine, this is actually only punishing the old players, it wont effect ANYONE but the players with 5 digit comp points that can even buy jade weapons first day. They're not special, gold guns were special, these are gold gun reskins.Then now everyone gonna get fucking confused because we added another worthless shitcoin to the gui

[@DriplessShrimp]

​@@sparquisdesadeshould be able to trade them in at least. Not our fault they took years to add anything. Even a 3 to 1 exchange rate would be cool

[@yesman2473]

Btw way a lot of this isn’t new. In ow1 was the same way if you go in a winning streak you gain bonus sr, same if you loose the one you should win and Im pretty sure its the same system its just running in the back ground and we were not able to see it. Also the percentage bar its just sr as well and its probably already in game we just cant see it they are now allowing us to see it.

[@ItsMihali]

3 hours?! I’m in!

[@willtrego]

“We’re so back”

[@asagrimreaper]

Mercy damage boost , Zen discord and 2 flanking dps going for the tank first. 50% more dmg and 20% less healing, it'll be great to play tank!

[@justindemont6062]

They need to ignore the whining and let tanks be the raid boss they need to be, imo they need to have things affect tanks differently

[@andrecarvalho9144]

​@@justindemont6062 their passive should include debuff resistance and the role would be far more powerful but not broken, also the dps passive not being stackable in the same target

[@justindemont6062]

I better see a dragon blade buff! If I still only see 100 per swing im gonna friggin riot justice for my boy

[@sozi6862]

Eskay's idea for using the Heroes for balances and other things is so good! You could even use existing voice lines! Orisa nerf? "Efi will not be happy about this" It really does feel like there's not a marketing team.

[@CJNight]

DPS passive should be based on the rate of fire. Automatic hitscan weapons should have to be actively hitting the target for it to stay active. Projectile weapons should have it last slightly longer. You miss a shot (while continuously firing), it is no longer active. Don't think it should last for 5 seconds (for 1 shot) for anyone when you compare abilities with actual cooldowns that have similar effects that last a shorter amount than that.

[@KeanuChrist]

Yeeeeeaaah! Thank you SVB. Love listening to these while I work. 40:46 Real talk, been playing Valorant instead of Overwatch. The community is less toxic too. Not even close of a comparison.

[@Real_MisterSir]

Valo also has 10x fewer ways to throw/pop off, so people have less to focus on and blame/desire their team to do. OW is basically LoL mixed with Valo, getting the best and worst of both games' extremes.

[@KeanuChrist]

@@Real_MisterSir Yeah, I really like that Valorant uses a similar system to LoL where if you queue up, you're locked in and can't leave the game, even if it's unrated. I'm all for leaver penalties.

[@choongkeat]

0.05m is 50mm.... if a bullet is 50mm+... that's scary.

[@imgoingonamarch]

Why didn’t they say 50mm? Is it coz Yanks trying to understand metric? ‘Does anyone say millimetres? Shall we say 5cm? Wait, is it 5cm? Ah fuck it put 0.05 metres’

[@hackfeatherstep9955]

As an echo player I’m most excited for these changes I think her playstyle is gonna feel so different so I’m excited to try it out and see how it feels

[@tentedcarton0119]

Is the dps passive not just the in combat system they had at the start that nobody liked?

[@midmoose]

2:01:40 ‘who’s boning who’ LMAOOOOOO

[@angeldelgadillo4599]

For the dps passive, there should be a minimum damage threshold for the “anti-heal” to take effect, like 50 damage. That way, characters that can poke for bursts of damage would not be able to shoot one bullet, run, and still have the effect on their target

[@Real_MisterSir]

and then you enter the stage of nothing being predictable or actively obvious, leading to confusion and frustration. "Did someone do 50 solo dmg to me recently? Can I afford to take space or not? When is this shit gonna kick in?" vs "I got shot, I am affected". OW already has more information to process per second than any other game in the world. Making more of that information more difficult to easily read, will just lower the gameplay experience.

[@akai_shuichi_x]

Yeah, in the pro alpha they implemented an in-combat healing reduction, and everyone hated it since a tickle from 5 dmg across the map would proc it.

[@durpasaur3052]

I do not play Overwatch, but I love this podcast dude

[@DriplessShrimp]

I feel like coordinated dive is going to be amazing now. 20% less healing along with discord is going to melt targets.

[@russainhockeypuckman7376]

Winston is getting shafted, if his secondary fire is just gonna be even less useful