The Great Guitar Build Off 2023 - Carbon Fiber Neck Concept

[@JamieChorley]

The tubes design would definitely be more exciting to see! Looking forward to whichever you decide

[@normbarrows]

Mark, I'm so glad you're doing a carbon fiber build. On my triple tube neck, I used one 15mm tube flanked by two 10mm tubes. No grooves in the back of the fretboard, just some CA glue along the lines of contact with the fretboard and between the tubes. The nut was a Steinberger, screwed into dowel plugs glued into the ends of the tubes. The neck was a two screw bolt-on, using a wood dowel in the center tube at the heel, and wood screws. My one tube neck allowed too much fretboard flex. My twin 17mm tube neck was a bit chunky compared to my trapezod profile wood necks. The triple tube has a trapezoid-like profile. The twin tube build, and the guitar I made with the triple tube neck are both on my channel. So is the carbon fiber body build with the 10mm tubes that failed. I've come up with a new body design based on 15mm tubes that should work, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. For a headstock attachment method, another option is dowel pins glued into the ends of the tubes. They stick out of the ends of the tubes and go into dowel pin holes in the base of the headstock. If you go with a Steinberger (or similar) nut instead of string anchors, you can use dowel plugs and screws - no problem. A real Steinberger nut won't require ball ends, so it will work with individual multiscale barrel type tuners (which I assume you're using) - but you don't get a cool headstock - and no headstock shoulders for a guitar hanger. All you can do is a peghole hanging bracket behind and above the nut. It mounts between the nut and neck, goes back, then up behind the nut. Trying to add headstock shoulders under the nut gets in the way of playing open chords. Personally, I'd go tubes, dowels and dowel holes in the headstock base, and string anchors. Perhaps dowels that fit the tubes, and then are smaller on the headstock side if needed. I don't have video of me making the triple tube neck, but this video shows the result: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXTWg2WdZ6aJack There's a build series on the guitar that eventually got the triple tube neck after the carbon fiber body fail,, but offhand I can't recall which guitar it was - maybe guitar 6 or guitar 7.

[@MarkGutierrez]

I've watched all your builds. You have a lot of inspiring ideas. I've decided to test out the three-tube design before committing to it. I plan on machining those channels on the underside of a cheap fretboard this weekend. I'll epoxy the tubes in and then perform a stress test. I'm confident it will be rigid enough.

[@LosPompadores]

I'm looking forwad to how this progresses

[@alfarrell]

Pour liquid acrylic resin into the tubes? A transparent headstock might also look cool.

[@MarkGutierrez]

Transparent headstock... nice.

[@michaelmenkes8085]

I did a similar experiment because I wanted carbon reinforcement at the same time as I wanted epoxy light strip panels. I put a tiny hollow round tube inside another and the rigidity doubled. But I still didn't use it. I think the hollow large rectangle just has too much empty space on its own, and shape is an issue since its not solid and not carveable. a top layer of small solid square profile rods reinforced with the tubes creating the neck profile would work and stay very light. You can even sneak a truss rod into that construction as well as support a neck taper just by angling the rods into the taper you want. The truss rod would help make this goof proof. YOur wooden headstock insert is very very very much like a modern hockey stick. They obviously take a lot of abuse. If your wood tang is long enough (and could also get some carbon rod reinforcement) its going to be solid. The hockey blades are often reinforced with a layer of fiberglass over the wood. As usual you have great and inspiring ideas. My GGBO 2023 builds focused on the epoxy and light channels to create lit fretboard inlays and side dots in order to solve that problem of it being impossible to read side dots when playing in darkness. I'm at the final sanding before finish phase on both a bass and a baritone.

[@GahMehGrrrr]

great ideas , as usual

[@creativecomposites6193]

Nice, like the off the shelf accessibility. The end of the tubes could be set in a toughened polyurethane casting resin for fixings perhaps? There are also a few low cost additives that might help if your going to use epoxy for gluing, micro fibres can be added for a tough structural bedding glue/fillets and micro balloons/spheres for non structural filling much like a car filler you can add these untill desired viscosity is reached can also be pigmented with black.I like your idea of round tubes going into the rectangular cf tube this would be mega strong if filled with epoxy around the outside of the round tubes. Look forward to seeing where we go on this cf adventure!

[@DevilAndSons]

I love watching the design and thought process. Thanks for sharing.

[@davepaulson287]

I would really like to see the tube idea done. That is way more interesting. Plus I'm curious how the strings would sound unplugged with the sound waves traveling through the pipe.

[@_mysilentblue2227]

I'm looking forward to this that's for sure. Forget about the locking at the headstock just use ferrules and the strings ball ends. There has to be a headless bridge that locks. Maybe even different diameter tubes to create a somewhat radius on the back of the neck.

[@DedMaximChannel]

Looks like a cool idea! The rectangular tube concept reminds me an oldscool composite hockey stick with a replaceable hook and it has a vibe. But the one with the circular tubes looks like it's better from an ergonomic perspective and i would stick with it. Thank you for sharing!

[@RLDWEBER]

If using tubes, what do you think about routing one continuous squared channel so the tubes are submerged in a pool of epoxy, subsequently binding to more than just the contact point between the rods and fingerboard? Maybe 3 squared channels? Can you forsee any issues?

[@TheM00ndawg]

I wonder if with the tubes you could not have a pocket per se, and just drill three holes into the body, so it just slides in. then secure it with screws from the back. but I doubt that would work would it. you'd need some more space/body material in between the fret board and the tubes for a secure fit. Curious how the tube neck feels, and what you do to round it, if anything..

[@MarkGutierrez]

That's a good idea.

[@ghosthawk65]

Fascinating ideas, thanks for your innovative approach

[@johnstitt2615]

Once you have the main carbon fibre structure in place would resin or epoxy over the structure help get a dimension,thickness, and feel of a normal neck. At least just for back and sides where the hand grabs the neck. I have no idea....thoughts.

[@ReVeRbx-fe5wr]

You could make your headstock out of laminate quarter sawn pieces of hard wood for strength. Maybe glue some carbon fiber strips in between your laminate

[@Shornetastic]

This is a very cool idea and it already has me excited for the finished results/experiments you'll end up doing. The bamboo headstock looks great with the carbon fiber IMO, but I can see from your explanation how stability could become an issue. How about a way to mount the strings directly onto the carbon fiber itself? Could end up making some very interesting sounds when the guitar is unplugged, as the carbon fiber is hollow. Love the innovative approach and the consciousness towards sustainability :-)

[@harleypruett]

I think each headstock design you showed could swap to the opposite neck design you showed 😄 If you used the rectangular tube and extended it beyond the nut you could use the individual string clamps on it. Alternately, if you cut the tubes at the nut, you could use carbon fiber dowels to connect the round tubes to a bamboo headstock that had dowel holes drilled in it.

[@MarkGutierrez]

I thought the same thing. Level of effort is also a variable in my decision. I'm trying not to over engineer the design.

[@gothridercreations]

Love this idea Mark!!! I would go for the tubes and make some plugs from forged carbon fibre, this would solve the screw issue for the headless plate and keep the look modern. I made a bamboo fretboard for my entry last year and it sands just fine, just be careful of voids in the laminated layers, that nearly stumped me lol

[@MarkGutierrez]

Plugs from forged carbon fiber, nice. Thanks for the idea! Do you know if bamboo stains well?

[@colb999]

This is going to be interesting to watch. I had several similar ideas during the lockdown period when all I could do was theorise.

[@carlchameleon9847]

you should try making a carbon fiber neck with sheets of carbon fiber in a mold!

[@hannibalbarkas1350]

Thank you for doing this, I was thinking about it but don't have the facilities or skills yet lol. Are there longer tubes ? I love a neck through construction.

[@red58impala]

Interesting design. I was thinking it the neck is too narrow, you could always build it up some with smaller tubes in between the outer and inner tubes. Something smaller to help fill in the gaps. If the neck is too odd and uncomfortable, you could always cut a tube length wise and use one half to give you some additional thickness. It'd probably be ugly, just some thoughts off the top of my head.

[@paulbeckwith5981]

Interesting design ideas, subbed to follow

[@MalachiHealey]

Hands down one of my favorite channels on youtube. Never stop. It inspires.

[@lj6278]

Cool idea. Looking forward to the next update. So many ways you could go. Thanks Mark.

[@stu_y]

Holding 3 chunky marker pens to emulate the tube design feels reasonably comfy, at least compared to holding a small square cork sanding block (things I have lying around). Whichever way, it'll certainly be brilliant to see how it comes together!

[@docbuildsit2038]

I made a youtube video a few years ago building a carbon fiber guitar. I molded the neck and body as one. The neck was super stiff. Absolutely zero flex. I look forward to seeing your design. Your entry last year should have won,

[@MarkGutierrez]

I watched your vid on the carbon fiber guitar build. I came across it when I was researching carbon fiber guitars. You put a lot of work into it. I'm hoping using off the shelf components reduces the level of effort.

[@gabys2]

Looking forward to how this comes out Mark. I love carbon fiber necks, I'm hoping this comes out great.

[@robertguimbarda9562]

I have a 1983 Music Man Cutlass beta six string made with a Modulus carbon fiber neck.

[@ChrisFranklyn]

This is a fantastic experiment! Really looking forward to seeing if you can pull this off.

[@MrLelo17]

Amazing concept. I have been working on a similar approach, albeit different execution to yours, working with CF and Richlite to create hyper stable necks. I don't think we are in a position to industrialize it yet at scale as the cost of each component is quite high vis a vis the cost of traditional neck manufacturing, but I am hoping this changes as the benefits of such construction/material usage makes consumers more willing to pay for the innovation/investments.

[@fuge314]

I wonder if without a fingerboard, you could just mount raised frets on the tubes and have it play like it had a scalloped fretboard. Almost like a carbon fiber gittler guitar.

[@MarkGutierrez]

The Gittler guitar is definitely an inspiration.

[@woooji]

this is really interesting, carbon round tubes neck plus aluminium fingerboard, plus acrylic body inlayed with brass mesh! =) keep going, your videos are amazing

[@David.C.Velasquez]

Yeah, super interesting design exercise. I'll admit, at first I was like na, bad idea, but by the end had warmed to the concepts. If anybody can make it work, and still be aesthetically innovative, it's you. Take care:)

[@thenerktwins]

You ended up doing exactly what I hoped you would. Love this type of video

[@MithatKonar]

I think you have to build both! If you go with a plug-in headstock, I'd encourage you to be as inventive as you can with what it does. Design-wise, it seems goofy to have a precedent-breaking neck with an utterly conventional headstock.

[@MarkGutierrez]

Agree. I think I'm pretty committed to the three-tube design, though.

[@stevecassidyguitar]

Just want to get in first and predict you'll take home the gold mate 😀🏆

[@MarkGutierrez]

Thanks! From what I understand, being in the invitational this year, this guitar will be raffled and it's just bragging rights, there are no winners. At least, that's how I think it works.

[@stevecassidyguitar]

@@MarkGutierrez Bragging rights is the best prize anyway 😁 Love your channel mate 😎👌

[@JonathanSureau1]

Do it scared indeed. I so admire your moxie (and skill) in taking on the unknown with design and build. This was a great teaser and I am really looking forward to seeing what you choose and how you execute your choices. To my mind, this is what youtube is really for, enabling creative folks to share their ideas with an audience and get feedback on their project. And we the audience get the benefit of learning from your endeavors. Well done.

[@martin13rm]

the future of guitars is woodless, what do you think of that statement?

[@MarkGutierrez]

One intriguing avenue is the exploration of "biomimetic polymers." Inspired by nature's design principles, these polymers mimic the complex hierarchical structures found in organic materials. By emulating the microscopic arrangement of bone or wood on a molecular level, these polymers could offer a harmonious blend of lightweight construction, enhanced durability, and tonal richness. This approach not only paves the way for sustainable guitar production but also opens the door to crafting instruments with unique tonal signatures that rival or surpass traditional wooden counterparts. As luthiers and materials scientists collaborate to unlock the full potential of these innovative materials, the future of guitar craftsmanship holds the promise of truly extraordinary sonic experiences.

[@russellzauner]

Gittler makes a fretless bass that is just 4 metal tubes, the long way.

[@SweetTGuitars]

Interesting as always brother. I'm really looking forward to what you do with this man. ✌️🤍