The Great Rapture Debate (Session 1 of 7) Stauffer vs Schimmel

[@Sergedb74]

Pastor Douglas, outstanding first session, I enjoyed it very much, you are a blessing. Dr. Schimmel got me worried a couple of times but you covered those subjects even in the introduction. Great work. Just wow! I bought some of your books but I learned something even here. That Bible is extraordinary. Glory to God. Thanks.

[@FaithIndependentBaptistChurch]

You are very welcome. Many blessings to you too.

[@bootsy70]

I pray you get out of the pre trib mindset which is FALSE and will lead to a great falling away plus having some take the mark of the beast because they are still on earth & can since they haven't been raptured out yet. How SAD for those buying into this very incorrect theology that is NOT biblical if the scriptures are read correctly. Amen. ❤.

[@Sergedb74]

@@bootsy70 It's ok to disagree bootsy70. I am a white slate for you if you'd like to show me where I might be wrong. You see, I don't get upset discussing the Bible but I noticed this subject irate many Christians. I discovered why: the reason is that most believers have preconceived ideas derived from their affiliation. The Bible is just amazing though, you get to its last book and it's like a jigsaw puzzle: if one's theology is a bit off, Revelation reveals it. That's why many get into a knot, refuse to admit their denomination or their relatives were wrong. Personally, I am non-denominational. It does not matter to me if the so-called rapture is pre or post. Would you be so kind as to show me some areas where my position could be invalid? I quite agree with Dr. Douglas but with some minor differences. It'd be nice to know which church you frequent. For example, are you a Seventh Day Adventist, a Lutheran, Catholic, Southern Baptist etc. Or to make it even shorter, do you believe salvation is by faith or by faith and works? My starting point is salvation by grace through faith and nothing else with emphasis on eternal security i.e. we can't lose our salvation as born again believers. Perhaps I differ from Douglas in that I see differences in how one is kept saved through the Bible. I'm also convinced, backed up by scriptures, that God hates different weights and measures in judgement; meaning I don't see God discriminating vs one group or another. See it from my point of view. If I go in the "tribulation", there will be at least two groups of people, one can lost salvation, the other can't. Wouldn't that be unfair? God saves me via 1 Corinthians 15-1:4, supported by Acts 16:30-31 and John 3:16... In the "tribulation", the other believers must keep the commandments as well to "survive". In order for me to embrace the mid-pre-wrath or post "rapture", one must shows me that I must keep the commandments for salvation today. Can you do that? You see, I'm not denying a pre-wrath or post trib rapture, I saw the verses, but the pre-trib rapture is something else, it precedes the 7-years Trouble. Feel free to ask me any question, to me is not an emotional issue, I just like defending the Bible. If you are correct I want to know it, we need to defend the faith from lots of people out there, the more precise the exegesis, the better. Please go ahead.

[@bootsy70]

@@Sergedb74 Yes it is ok to disagree. Pastor Joe Schimmel is correct & either you have spiritual eyes to see this in the Holy Bible, & Spiritual ears to hear what Pastor Joe is preaching. I truly am very sad like pastor Joe & those who do know it is Post trib. Again the pre tribbers are being deceived and will then fall away. I truly pray you wake up to this, but to go round & round & round will not wake you up if Pastor Joe Schimmel cannot. I pray you come to see the truth on this VERY critical issue in time. Amen. 🙏🙏🙏.

[@stevenhayes1611]

Schimmel made much of LaHaye’s acknowledgment that there is no verse in the NT that speaks of the rapture and second coming separated by 7 years. But Schimmel did not acknowledge there is no verse in the OT that speaks of the first and second comings, separated by thousands of years-yet that is the truth.

[@FaithIndependentBaptistChurch]

Great point for sure!

[@BellefontaineopenBible]

Excellent videos..how do I get access to your books? Also, did you happen to do a sermon/teaching on the judgment seat of Christ? Thank you for your faithfulness in building God's kingdom

[@jpaul1599]

The gathering [rapture] of all Believers will be at the end of time [end of thousand year reign of Christ] in the kingdom of heaven on earth. After Ezekiel prophecies [36,37& 38], & Zechariah 13:8-9 are fulfilled Christ's second coming is to judge the nations that come up against Israel. The book of Job is a very interesting book and reveals a lot about Creation and also about the gathering at the end of time. Why do teachers and preachers hardly ever refer to Job. After all, Job is one of three names that God highlights at least on three occasions as being righteous. Ezekiel 14:14 - 16 > Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.... Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate. Ezekiel 14:20 > Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God. Scripture is inerrant and with God there is no confusion. With Satan there is only controversial teachings [by misguided people who are mostly doing it in good faith [based on indoctrination that have their origin in certain theological seminaries.] For the truth of the timing of the gathering [ rapture as some call it] Read what is revealed in the book of Job about the timing of the gathering Job 14:12-14 > So "man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more", they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, "till my change come" This corresponds to what is revealed by Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 > Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but "we shall all be changed," In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and "we shall be changed". For "this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 > Then cometh the end, when He (Christ) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet. "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death". For HE hath put all things under His feet. But when HE saith all things are put under Him, "it is manifest that HE is excepted, which did put all things under Him". And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto HIM that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. Note - When Death is swallowed in victory - at the end of time . Revelation 20:14 > And Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death. Note - When Death is swallowed in victory - at the end of time when it is cast into the Lake of Fire. Job 38:8-11 > Or who shut up the sea with doors (Antartica with it's ice walls rising hundreds of feet along the shoreline) when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? Job 38: 19-23 > "Where is the way where light dwelleth"? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?.... Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? ... the hail (beyond the shoreline of Antarctica which is the ice, snow and hail), Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war? Note - God asked Job about the way that light dwells ? Surely, that's because people generally think that the sun gives the light to the universe. So, God tells us through the Word of God or Scripture or Bible that the sun is not the original source of light. There are many arbitrary diktats that have evolved over the years that believers have to accept as if they are gospel truth. Examples are (i) law of first mention (2) imminence of His second coming (3) the time of great tribulation is God's wrath (4) gap theory in Genesis that articulates pre-Adamic civilization etc . The patriarchs for Jews is Abraham, Issac , Jacob . The patriarchs for sons of man (Adam is excluded because he was a direct creation of God) is from Abel onwards . Read Hebrews 11:1-40 for the names therein. However, there is a very important fact that is overlooked by preachers and teachers that is emphatic about when the gathering of believers will happen. It's about the fact that all believers (past, present and future) will be made perfect (blameless before God) all at once ; the believers of the past will not precede the latter believers - hence the phrase "that they without us should not be made perfect" below. Hebrews 11: 39-40 > And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Colossians 1:22-23 > ... "to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable" (perfect) in HIS sight: "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away" from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, ... (Note - "to present you" is a futuristic event. Believers will be gathered in Him (just before the first Earth and the 1st & 2nd heavens pass away ) and then on the New Earth, HE will dwell with all believers for eternity to come. HIS presence will be the reward that HE has promised. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 > Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Note - those listed above will be cast into the Lake of Fire alongside Death, Hell; finally the Lake of Fire with all it's inhabitants will be cast into the deep outer darkness and away from the presence of God for eternity to come. [Declaration of the end from the beginning - Genesis 1:2 > And the (First) Earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep]. Revelation 21:8 > But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Note - believers (despite murders, adulteries etc and repented ) who are washed in the blood of Christ will be presented as blameless ... - Else how would Moses, David etc find a place in the presence of God on the New Earth.? Shalom From a gentile believer in Christ

[@bootsy70]

Douglas you are being deceived & deceiving simultaneously. Yet most were never of Us. Pre tribers are falling away as the pastors you listen to. I SO pray anyone wakes up from this incorrect viewpoint to see that it IS post trib. for your souls destiny depends on it. Amen. 🙏🙏🙏.

[@michaelmappin4425]

The post trib presenter did not say that soul's destiny hangs on this matter. Are there Bible versus for this? I thought that it was grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

[@bootsy70]

​@@michaelmappin4425I do suggest that you listen again to the whole 7 sessions as to what Pastor Joe is preaching. If you need to stop the video to look up this in your bible as he is speaking rhe book, chapter & verses please do so. You are saved by grace yet this pre trib rapture is a deception & NOT correct. This will lead many to falling away & will not be prepared for this ever darkening war & world. Hence, I am still here so I can take tge mark of the Beast since I am not raptured out yet. Kirk Cameron the actor that wiuld play the movies Left Behind did have to agree with Pastor Jos Schimmel because when he was told where to look for these pretrib. verses there are NONE. Joe offered I think the amount was - $10.000 or appx. to anyone that can show biblically what verses point to the pre, mid, tri raptures & no one ever received his money because it is a LIE that these pre trib. Pastors married into, bought & are being deceived. You must grow in discernment & read tge Holy Bible more so you won't be deceived by the wolves in sheeps clothing. There are many of them & many verses speaking of this. I say study the whole book of Mathew & Revelations CAREFULLY. Also if you continue to not follow tge correct pastors who are being deceived and deceiving simultaneously - well again a Great Falling away will take place for reasons I have commented on enough. Also I would SO encourage you to watch MANY videos if not all while reading the Holy Bible more to see how not to be deceived in any way @ Good Fight Ministries - Pastor Joe Schimmel is one of the best for calling out the Beast system in its entirety that I, my heavenly Father & the Holy Spirit of Truth have already conquered figureativly - yet Satan still reigns in the first 2 heavenlies. The third heaven is where my heavenly Father is. I pray this helps to get you to see that this has ALWAYS been a narrow way and strait the gate you must enter into that few will find for broad the way to destruction. One you are a Born Again Saint you are being watch by the enemies - isn't it War 101 that has spies, on different sides of each human military war? Well this is an analogy for this most evil & wicked war & generation now as the darkness is picking up in pace. I pray that this helps you, edifies, you tobdo more research & bible study & Joe is again one of the BEST that I have ever heard for above mentioned reasons. Peace, Blessings & may you pick up your cross & though you will drop it at times - to NEVER throw it away & now cross the finish line correctly. Amen..❤