The Gunners: Fallout 4's Fifth Faction

[@AidenRKrone]

I've always been under the impression that the Gunners are the descendants of a group of Army remnants, perhaps the National Guard. That would explain why they are armed with military-grade weaponry and clothing, use military-like ranks, and are proficient in squad-based tactics.

[@TaRAAASHBAGS]

You've thought about this more then Shithesda has

[@lazarussolomon3541]

No because I imagine the Millitary would be even better organized and woud be more "nice" to thier Members. One Gunner comander once killed an subordinate gunner for mouthing off. And their similarity to the nazis also puts them off form the millitary. But they might be the decendents of a prewar militia that managed to survive all this time

[@azogtheuglee4889]

That would be a cool contrast to the BoS, who are also a Military offshoot. & the Enclave as well.

[@jaemorningstar3204]

The fact that people think all of the gunners came from a vault has been crazy to me. I always thought these are just all of the members of the military leftover from when they had martial law in effect. Factions like the brotherhood and enclave just came from higher ranking forms or the military. Brotherhood was most likely from the army or sun type of Air Force, can’t really say cuz idk how the ranking systems worked pre war. And enclave came from the shadow government which had a mash up of all types of elite member of the US military. NCR is most likely the remnants of sun type of militia or homeland security. And the fact that gunners had access to a lot of broadcast stations and now how to scavenge for pre war tech and arms shows that they were just Boston’s national Guard.

[@lazarussolomon3541]

@@jaemorningstar3204 then why do they adopt nazi markings, structure and preform capital punishment for the most minor offenses

[@christianwilson5956]

It's very disappointing that the gunners are referred to multiple times as mercenaries but you can almost never interact with them outside of combat. They would have been a fun option to interact with and perhaps side with as a way to provide extra muscle to your faction so long as it's not the minutemen.

[@quotenpunk279]

Fallout 4 is just lazy as fuck. The first playthrough i loved it (even without mods :D) because i'm immersed in everything that has to do with fallout, but the more videos i watch about it or return to new vegas and stuff i realize how bad it actually is. Sim settlements is fun, though...

[@tunnelsnakesrule7541]

Like in Fallout 3. Talon Company only attacks when you’re a good player and if you’re evil you can help them.

[@Pigness7]

you can in my mod!

[@CM-db5cg]

I think that the gunners should've been the 'you pissed off all the pther factions but still finish the game' option. Instead of the minutemen. The minutemen where kinda kneecapped as a faction cuz they instantly put the player in charge, and they needed to make sure they didn't have any bliefs that a character could easily contradict, thus making then bland. Having the gunners as the 'yes man' option makes a whole lot more sense, cuz they're already morally flexible and could maintain complexity without sacraficing that. Then you could have the minutemen take a harder stance on things, judging you for what you do in the commonwealth even more than the other more ambivilent factions, and maybe even kicking you out if you don't align with their morals. But without letting the player lock themself out of finishing the game.

[@toddsalisbury3851]

@@CM-db5cg I feel like they should have had the option to turn the settlements into locations for each faction and that the gunners could be hired as guards or be used as a full faction too similar to minutemen. Idk Fallout 4 is just very shallow

[@Rajoovi1]

Honestly I feel like the Gunners would be the faction that makes the most sense for Nate, the Male protagonist, to join, given his military background. It's no secret that the US military during the Resource Wars wasn't exactly the best moral force of the world, Televising rebel executions and waving to the camera (Fallout 1 intro) and other various immoral things. I don't doubt for one second Nate's military training would land him amongst the gunners since that's the one faction that looks most familiar to his lifelong experiences.

[@csmrookie9600]

Imagine Nate, being the one that participated in the military and has enough experience to earn him entry in a vault, we’re to shape up the gunners and help mold them into a better faction.

[@publixmn2622]

@@csmrookie9600 Damn! Thats something like "Wild Card" from new vegas.

[@thelegalmexican9860]

The brotherhood?????? The military faction????? That mostly uses power armor and lasers????????

[@Rajoovi1]

@@thelegalmexican9860 the Brotherhood of Steel would be as alien to Nate as any of the other whackjob groups in the 200+ year old "new world". A pre-war military man seeing some dudes in power armour refering to themselves as Knights, Paladins and Scribes under a psudeoreligious dedication to "preserving technology" would find them to be further from the pre-war military than the guys in army fatigues calling themselves "Private", "corporal", "sergant" etc. Yea I know the original Roger Maxon WAS a soldier, but he also condemned the US government after the war when he founded BoS. The brotherhood of steel was founded upon literal treason to the US government. But ofc of the two, only the BoS is joinable so my points don't *effectively* matter.

[@ironwraith852]

I have a feeling that the Gunners wouldn’t blow up the Institute. I think they’d end up taking that shit for themselves.

[@SockEater4293]

The gunners were always one of the biggest mysteries to me in the game. In my headcannon, I like thinking of them as the Talon Mercenary Company, and the gunners might just be one of the divisions, like how the U.S. military has different divisions. I think that they are centralized in Manhattan, which is seen as a safe haven due to it being nearly impenetrable due to the bridges being the only way in and out, especially since they are heavily guarded. They use their Mercenary work to fund themselves, improving the city. I don't know where they could've originated from, but I like the idea of a giantantic vault under New York that could hold 20,000 people.

[@IncredulousIndividual]

gay

[@redenginner]

The only issue I could see with New York is that the city was likely directly hit by multiple icbm and bomber strikes due to it being a massive economic hub. Like the LA boneyard its likely mostly empty.

[@SockEater4293]

@@IncredulousIndividual original, isn't it?

[@IncredulousIndividual]

@@SockEater4293 Doesn't need to be original when it's the truth.

[@blacknoir3816]

@@IncredulousIndividual Hella cringey

[@SirAroace]

Fo:4 handled its factions so badly. The Railroad should have been a minor (like the Followers), The Minutemen should have been a real faction and not just a toy for the player, the presence of the BoS is questionable and they did the Lyons dirty, and finally they treat the Gunners as glorified raiders. The best done faction is the Institute but even they pail in comparison to big boys like Unity, NCR, or the Legion.

[@deadseven3474]

I think the Railroad works fine as a 4th faction, but I think they got their flavor wrong. In game the thing that really only matters to them is synth liberties, but I'd argue the railroad aught to be a covert faction that constantly pulls the strings in order to see to it that the freedom of the less fortunate was upheld, and that everyone had a right to exist. They could've been more like an anarcho-libertarian faction, valuing personal freedom above all else, to the point of being almost religious and or tin-foil esque. It would also give them a reason to not just be absorbed by the Minutemen; They refuse to be controlled or shackled, so even though they agree with the minutemen and would work with them, they would never assimilate with them peacefully.

[@hiroshima19]

the institute = buckets... ok

[@kekero540]

I think the institute as a faction is strong enough. It’s just that the scaling of commonwealth tech to tech in the rest of the wasteland is off. Since everyone and their mother can seem to find a laser weapon and the fact you can build robots that can blast and entire squad of BOS knights back into oblivion. Although I think they don’t serve as much of an immediate threat as the rest of the villains. But I think their impact on the world is one of the few things fallout 4 got right. Everyone is rendered completely insane because they institute kidnaps and replaces people so often people sometimes don’t know if they are or aren’t a synth. People will kill their family members because they think they’ve been replaced.

[@enclavecommando4653]

I had a theory that the gunners were being hired by the Enclave to gather technology and resources they need in exchange the gunners receive training, weapons, meds etc.

[@Normalguy1690]

Same theory people had for talon company in FO3

[@MU-oi1su]

Yea. Since they're mercenaries, it never made sense that there were so many building bases in the commonwealth. Like, who's their client? Not the poor randos in Diamond City.

[@michaeltelson9798]

There is a mod “Valkyrie “ I believe or an associated mod with that one that considers the Enclave as controlling them. In that mod Clint and Preston are considered agents of the Enclave. Yes, you can jail Preston. They also have a tattoo above the left eye.

[@Bothrops_Asper_89]

@@michaeltelson9798 Valkyrie is a chain. It starts with Depravity, where a raider lord named Murphy tells you he learned about the Gunners being subordinates of the Enclave who try to keep the Commonwealth down. And Valkyrie extends to Outcasts; which has you finding Sarah Lyons to take over the BOS.

[@George-Hawthorne]

I think their real employers along with Talon Company are the architects of the fallout. Vault-Tec.

[@shoazdon7000]

Even super mutants are their own faction, there was a lot of potential with the gunners and mutants

[@tunnelsnakesrule7541]

Yeah. Apparently Mutants have formed tribes during fallout 4.

[@shoazdon7000]

@@tunnelsnakesrule7541 yeah they are supposed to much more intelligent than the fallout 3 mutants because of the different strain of FEV used by the institute. However, I’m not sure how they compare to the first generation supermutants made by the master or the nightkin

[@tunnelsnakesrule7541]

@@shoazdon7000 I mean those also were mostly created with fairly clean FEV. And had commands from a leader.

[@oneblacksun]

@@shoazdon7000 They're like 10% smarter. They're still cannibalistic berserkers. No nuance. No chance at redemption. They have no way of sustaining themselves, yet they fight to the last man and constantly raid. They have no reason to exist. But Bethesda wanted super mutants in their game because brand recognition is more important to them than making a good Fallout game.

[@amannamedsquid313]

@Billy Bob Barnabus They seem to have a hard on for Radscorpions and Mirelurks too.

[@Pigness7]

As a quest modder it is my purpose in life to make the gunners an actual faction

[@oliverpohlproductions8291]

Tell me when you do.

[@frog6054]

I'm waiting

[@thomasleonardis711]

Update?

[@IssyMomentTTV]

Sim Settlements 2 expands on the Gunners heavily, but only as an enemy faction. You get to stage a whole war against them that even ties into the vanilla main quest

[@joeclark1893]

Here’s my personal theory about the gunners: Who Hired the Gunners The Gunners are one of the strangest factions in Fallout. They have no known origin, occupy major locations across the Commonwealth, use advanced technology, mostly pre-war Amy gear, and while they claim they’re mercenaries, they kill on sight and act more like raiders. They appear to be taking a contract from someone, but it is top secret, even to most Gunners. So the question is, who are the Gunners and why are they hostile? Firstly, we have to observe the Gunners behavior. They will occupy locations of importance like highway overpasses where they can spy on The Commonwealth and also communicate using some form of satellite relay. They occupy locations with important pre-war technology like the Mass Fusion building or a few vaults, even if they have no apparent use for them. They will take missions from this unknown buyer to scavenge for pre-war tech like Hallucigen Gas which backfired and ended up with the entire unit killing each other. They also harass major factions like the Minutemen and Brotherhood of Steel for no apparent reason except to keep the Commonwealth from falling into stability. They also are trying to gain intel about the Institute by capturing a runaway synth but ultimately failed when a Courser killed most of them and the player disabled the Courser. They will also take some local contracts, but only from wealthy people like the Cabots or the wealthy residents of Diamond City. They also have a large amount of pre-war US Army gear and Robots. No other faction has this amount of Pre-War Army gear except for possibly the Brotherhood. And most Army bases have been picked clean (presumably by them). There is a widely excepted theory that the Gunners originated from the super soldiers created in Vault 75. For the purpose of this theory, I’m going to assume that that’s true. They are very highly trained and seem to have much more combat skills than other minor factions. They also occupy Vault 75 and appear to still use their training facilities. The question is: why are the Gunners able to afford to only take high paying contracts? why are they being paid to guard equipment they can’t use? where did they get all of that army gear? why do they shoot on sight? and most importantly, who’s paying them? All of the questions point to one place: The Enclave. The Enclave is confirmed to still be active in Chicago and is presumed active in other parts of the country as well. And they have been known to contract with mercenary companies like Talon Company and the Salvatores to do their business without compromising the Enclave’s cover. Both groups were contracted to spread chaos and Talon Company was even contracted to secure pre-war facilities and shoot all wastelanders on sight. This is my complete theory: When the Enclave relocated to the Capital Wasteland, the Enclave realized the importance of the Commonwealth. Though, they lacked the firepower to even secure the Capital Wasteland at the time and wanted to remain secret. To secure the Capitol Wasteland, the Enclave secretly formed Talon Company. They would be provided with the Enclave’s outdated equipment and would occasionally take other jobs to pose as a mercenary company, but their main employers would be the Enclave. Their job was to secure points of interest for eventual Enclave occupation, fight the super mutants occupying downtown DC and begin the slaughter of all wastelanders except for potential allies like Mr Tenpenny. But Talon Company was just supposed to be a placeholder for an Enclave occupation and not meant to be long-term. But it took the Enclave much longer to rebuild than expected and Talon Company was ultimately ineffective to prevent a Brotherhood invasion and the Enclave’s subsequent defeat. Though when they were still there, they discovered a place known as the Commonwealth. This place was supposedly filled with old pre-war technology and a faction known as The Institute which was even more advanced than the Enclave itself. This Institute posed a threat to the Enclave and this would undoubtedly be the next place the Brotherhood expanded towards. But fortunately, there was also an unopened vault in the Commonwealth, Vault 75. Vault 75 had been building super soldiers through eugenics for the past 200 years and would be the perfect place to start. Not to mention that these Vault dwellers could eventually join the Enclave due to the fact that they were unmutated. The Enclave contacted Vault 75 through the old Vault-Tec communication network and informed the inhabitants of their plan. The Vault was then opened and the Enclave began supplying them with outdated Army gear through secret meetings in the Glowing Sea. The Gunners operated like Talon Company for a few years until the Enclave’s defeat and retreat to Chicago. The Enclave then realized that the Gunners would have to become a long-term presence to prevent other factions like the Brotherhood or the Institute taking over. They allowed them to enlist wastelanders and act more like raiders to secure resources. They also provided them with more advanced technology, though still outdated and dirty to look scavenged. Their new technology included a few suits of power armor, combat robots and use of the Enclave’s satellite communication system. The Gunners then established themselves in the wasteland by attempting to wipe out the already dying Minutemen and assaulting a Brotherhood recon team. They occupied strategic observation points and areas of Enclave interest. But they still could not find the Institute who posed a constant threat to their dominance.

[@MoldycheeseJr]

This was a good read. It would be sick if this was actually true and was explained in the game

[@mutedunknown2734]

can I get a TLDR?

[@sillylilstella]

im not reading all that so im happy for you or sorry for you

[@UpToSpeedOnJaguar]

@@mutedunknown2734 enclave dun did it

[@MongooseJakeNerf]

Nice write up, and certainly possible in the Fallout lore. Enclave backing the Gunners and supplying them well enough to ensure they have success? Sounds legitimately like a proper backstory.

[@GnosticAtheist]

If they had been the "evil" alternative I might still be playing fallout 4 now instead of still playing NV.

[@John.McMillan]

I wanted to join the Gunners from when I first fought and understood what they are. "Oh, random people from the wasteland can go join if they are skilled? I bet I can join since I am in PA, beat a deathclaw to death and wiped out entire raider gangs by myself without issue." Queue me trying my hardest to join only to realise its impossible.

[@AB-bg7os]

We get it, NV is good

[@GnosticAtheist]

@@AB-bg7os Not that good. If fallout 4 had a better story with a few more RPG opportunities I would be playing it. The reason I still play it is nostalgia and knowing I can be more or less what I want to be. Oh and the silent protagonist meaning my mind dictates the character not some voice actor. That said, modding is powerful and it is possible to mod 4 to glory, I just dont have the imitative to make a mod list

[@ohlawd6763]

Its amazing how they went and looked at Talon Company in FO3 and then basically REPEATED the exact same thing. What does Bethesda have against being able to have a truly evil faction? The BoS are the evil faction in Fo4? Are you kidding me?

[@DrWongburger]

@@ohlawd6763 institute is also pretty evil if you ask me. I suppose the idea they were going for was a grey morality situation where all options have it's good and bad aspects. such are the themes within the stories in these games.

[@hallamhal]

I always assumed the Gunners' name came from their main base being at GNN - they are the GNNers if you will

[@Kitsune44X]

Well now. That IS a thought!

[@EA_SP0RTCENTER]

Yea, that might hold up if all the gunners higher ranks weren't outside of the commonwealth..

[@YungBeezer]

you are way too smart to be a Bethesda writer.

[@courier8365]

Bethesda should have made it so you can join them and do quests for them, as it would help with players role-playing as mercenaries. There should also be a lot more lore surrounding them, to flesh out their story more. The Gunners are aware of the Brotherhood of Steel and the Institute, and how much more technologically advanced they are. They should be trying to upgrade their weapons, procure more resources, armor and equipment. Because as it stands, they’re completely inferior to their adversaries. That should be a much bigger problem than it seems to be in game, and the player would be able to help with that. But I guess Bethesda never meant them as such.

[@zalenahquaddy4354]

They probably just wanted to make tougher raiders, but I like your idea.. I wish all factions interacted or acknowledged each other more to make the world feel alive because when playing everything just seems like it's co-existing until the story and dialogue tells you otherwise.. Only time you stumble upon groups infighting is on accident.

[@Steel-101]

I think if Bethesda spent one more year in development with fallout four we might have seen this be an option. I like what we have but still it would’ve been cool to see a gunner Playthrough and the settlement system have less bugs(i’m looking at you Garvey)

[@tunnelsnakesrule7541]

A ton of stuff was probably scrapped once the location was changed.

[@Steel-101]

@@tunnelsnakesrule7541 exactly. Another piece of content that was scrapped was an additional ending for the brotherhood of steel. During blind betrayal with danse, you can challenge elder maxon to a challenge and if you defeat him you’ll become the next elder of the brotherhood of steel. If that happens you can choose to spare the railroad faction(in the original they force you to kill the railroad. Not even a speech check to convince them to spare that faction).I honestly like the sound of that. Being the elder I mean. The brotherhood have the best missions in the game in my opinion.

[@sextuspompeius1266]

Fallout four was under development for like five years, no amount of time would've made it a good game

[@bennitooo6913]

Even if they lazed out and made gunners purely cutthroat survivalists just doing shady work it'd be cool. It'd be an excuse to send you out all over the wasteland for dynamic/ scripted quests from brutal to bizzarre stuff like finding the deathclaw egg. On the other end at least have a mission of retaking quincy killing them all lol, or at least some unique dialogue with preston.

[@chilarius]

This wasn´t a case of time constraint like was is New Vegas or Tactics. The problem was the writer, Emil, who had all the time he wanted to write (bad) all this game.

[@FriendlyHouseCentipede]

In my mind, the Gunners are similar to the HECU from Half-Life. They are professional soldiers who follow the orders they are given, no matter how cruel; but they are still not evil per say.

[@odstat1949]

HECU are based I hate the science team And I hate orange people with crowbars

[@gokufromfortnite5600]

if only they talked like the HECU

[@josgretf2800]

@@gokufromfortnite5600 WE'VE! GOT! HOSTILES!

[@UpToSpeedOnJaguar]

It's sort of implied in opposing force (even though it's technically not canon) that the HECU didn't have any idea what was going on.

[@josgretf2800]

@@UpToSpeedOnJaguar Their commanders did, but if you watch, Shepard's team is never given the orders because their helicopter crashed before they do. Thats why his team doesn't kill scientists

[@JanJansen985]

Dude if they just charged people for passing by their high ground highways they would have made any sense Instead they are just raiders wearing green instead of red

[@ultramarroonvortex681]

The most clever thing in Fallout 4 is GNR Plaza becoming Gunner Plaza.

[@SirMattomaton]

The Gunners are Fallout 4's equivalent to Skyrim's Forsworn. They are dramatically undeserved and underwritten examples of Bethesda's creative negligence. They feel like they should both be far more interesting than just a raider/bandit cannon fodder. (even raiders and bandits should be more fleshed out too IMO)... They should be a more morally gray and possibly JOINABLE faction in their respective stories.

[@J.B.1982]

Bethesda is a “quantity over quality” type of company. Not to say I haven’t enjoyed their games but I find they sort of trick you. There’s so much being thrown at you that it’s hard to know what is what at first. The more I learn to mod and analyze their games, the more I see how creatively bankrupt they are. I don’t think it’s laziness, per se.

[@fuzzy7644]

Honestly Bethesha are really pretty decent at enironment story-telling. That's where they shine, however when it comes to writing narratives they tend to fall flat and feel underdevloped. I suspect that's because they create the worlds first and then the stories around them and naturally they put more effort in the things they are more experts at. Though I love NV it does have weak actual world design since it's just, you know, a desert and New Vegas itself feels shallow compare to the writing of the characters and factions within the game. Personally, if we were living in a dream world I would want the orignal writers of fallout to write the narrative of a new fallout game with all the factions and the like that comes with that and have bethesha create the enironment around it.

[@SkupperNog]

I would have LOVED to have joined the Gunners. Can't even fathom how the story would play out.

[@calebjones4952]

Now I'm just picturing a version of Fallout 4 where the Gunners are the ones besieging Concord, and that choosing between the two would be your first major decision, a la Ghost Town Gunfight in New Vegas. Depending on the outcome, you could either get recruited to the Gunners or the Minutemen (as a private. No instant gratification for you), or refuse and get locked out until, say, reaching Diamond City. It's not that much better than what currently exists, but it's such a simple idea that I'm surprised Bethesda didn't take that route to begin with. It practically wrote itself with the story of the Minutemen and the Quincy Massacre, *both of which are in the base game.*

[@patroitcat097]

I like to imagine that they are a small detachment of a bigger Enclave group

[@maylabrown4584]

Yes that'd be awesome

[@patroitcat097]

@@maylabrown4584 it would be

[@GOD_O_WAR]

Yes

[@patroitcat097]

@@GOD_O_WAR Perhaps

[@IncredulousIndividual]

because you're 15.

[@SheppardOfNumenor]

Would you cover the prevalence of cannibalism in the fallout games and how there are a variety of examples of factions and individuals practising the sick cuisine. Usually cannibals are depicted as savages or psychopaths in various media though in Fallout the examples are not so black and white. Eating a person is immoral and some characters in the fallout series fit the bill whereas others attempt to maintain civility to a degree (Andale, White Gloves, and Modoc) however the farmers of Modoc used the taboo of cannibalism without practising the consumption of human flesh. I think an interesting video could be made exploring the possible future of cannibalism in further fallout games.

[@edwarddean7339]

And vances family, their a type of cannibals only more blood sucking but some of the members seem dissatisfied with it.

[@jamestown8398]

Any discussion of cannibalism in Fallout needs to include Iguana Bob.

[@Rmanan_Hr]

This video popped up right as I was looking for Gunner's lore. Excellent timing.

[@vonbennett8670]

Having Vault 75 as the Gunner's origin makes the most sense. The child soldiers went 'up top' to fight against the evil forces threatening the Commonwealth. They did so for many years but later generations strayed from the path to become the mercenary soldiers that we see today.

[@robot_girlyman1556]

The gunners were always the most interesting faction to me but I do think the vagueness actually made it far more interesting than Todd fucking it up

[@Alte.Kameraden]

For me the greatest failure of this game is not having a multilayered story when it came to factions. Meaning, everyone was fighting for pretty much control of the Commonwealth and honestly it made it boring. For example, I think the Minutemen should of been a big player, not controlled by the player, not a ghost of it's former self when the player stepped in, and the Minutemen would of been in direct competition with the Gunners. Example being, the Minutemen were a volunteer force who took up their own free time, and risked their lives to help people, guarding/protecting and doing jobs like rescuing kidnapped peoples etc etc. However, most of what the Minutemen were doing for Free is what the Gunners wanted to do as a "Financial Service." This would of made for a good dynamic in the game, and hostility between to two factions. The Gunners could provide a superior service, because they had the caps to have better weapons/equipment, and even try to offer some sense of moral/ideological superiority over the Minutemen who they'd view as hopeless romantics. Their could of even been a few times when they'd work together, on task more serious than their own petty differences. Siding with the minutemen would have consequences. Like a lack of security, men not showing up when they promised, as the Minutemen relies on individuals to actually step up. Siding with the gunners would also have consequences. Higher sales prices among merchants, similar to what happens at Prim in Fallout NV. Basically over time, after enough quest are done you will slowly see regions under Minutemen influence or gunner influence slowly change. All Caravans will have said faction troops as guards, in minor towns/farms you will see a few gunners or minutemen posted there full time. Imagine if you help the Minutemen or Gunners take 100% control of the Commonwealth outside of places like Diamond City, and you will then say have an option to allow said faction to be the official military arm of the Commonwealth, and make a long term deal/alliance with Diamond City, with Diamond City being the Capital/Center of Trade/Commerce/Government. Ya... honestly didn't like Fallout 4's base game politics/story/everything.

[@philw3039]

I think the Gunners were formed as a plot device for the Minutemen storyline. The Minutemen needed to be in a decimated state at the beginning of the story so you could spend the game re-building them as faction questline and also get a convenient introduction to settlement building. Hence the Quincy Massacre storyline, but there needed to be a force capable of taking down the Minutemen. Raiders or super mutants wouldn't work --they aren't organized or disciplined enough, not to mention that the Minutemen were primarily formed to combat these groups and had tons of experience fighting them. Who does that leave then? The Institute? They don't really do outright attacks unless there's something very specific that they want. Attacking a settlement like Quincy wouldn't really fit their M.O. at that time. BoS wasn't present full-force in the Commonwealth yet, and the Railroad wouldn't have the offensive power or a motive to attack the Minutemen. So, the Gunners served as a rival militia group to explain the defeat of the Minutemen. Their similar military hierarchy and culture meant they were easily able to convince ex-Minuteman Clint to join their side leading to the Minutemen getting destroyed from within their own ranks. The Gunners might've been considered as a playable faction at one point, but my guess that their main purpose was as adversaries for the Minutemen (similar to the Talon company's purpose of punishing morally good decisions in FO3) and everything else was an afterthought. They did do a few interesting things with them like making MacCready a former member (but where's his tattoo?), but overall the lore for the Gunners is lacking because they weren't conceived as a faction in the first place.

[@ahha623]

I believe the value your missing from vault 75 is that it has a training ground already there, making it a great place to test and train new guys.

[@TheObsidianX]

Vaults are also valuable in general as they are extremely sturdy and easy to defend positions and possibly come with clean water and electricity depending on the state they are in.

[@ryryhc]

There was a tip in one of the loading menus that hinted at the gunners being remnants of the pre war government which is maybe hinting at the enclave? Exact: "The orgin of the gunners of the commonwealth is shrouded in mystery. However, some Wastelanders have speculated that it was formed by a remnant from America's Pre-War Government."

[@kaizenregimen]

Are you sure that loading quote isn't from a mod?

[@ryryhc]

@@kaizenregimen I saw it in my loading screen and I don't play moded

[@duplicarus]

The Gunners could have replaced the BoS, that would have been a great decision by Bethesda

[@foxbuthigh5764]

Bethesda love making the Brotherhood Of Steel the main faction...

[@Kitsune44X]

... that actually might be doable. Careful editing of a few lines and texts, textures would need to be changed, but that honestly seems doable. Main reason I think we got the BoS at all was that you can't not have the BoS or the Enclave (one of the two at least) from the marketing perspective...

[@duplicarus]

@@Kitsune44X no you’re completely right. But it’s like who was it for? New players wouldn’t know what they were missing and old players would get something new outside of the recycled re-skinned Brotherhood of Steel. Like I’m not sick of the BoS, I’ll dick ride them all day, but it would be nice to see Fallout shine without them being a major faction, like in New Vegas.

[@cesardl.6093]

The BoS are much more iconic that the Enclave.

[@TeaInTheMorning-we2kh]

They should have had Gunners attacking the Preston and the settlers in concord and given you the choice of joining the gunners in the attack or helping the settlers.

[@tefras14]

The gunners, high end mercenaries who REALLY don't want to be hired by anyone so they are hostile to everyone.

[@cpob2013]

I'd love to see the Legion march on the commonwealth. They would recruit the gunners in a heartbeat

[@Demicleas]

I think they would be enamies mainly beacuse the gunners would never resort to using melee even there lowest ranks rarely use melee weponary unlike Caesars legion.

[@The_mrbob]

The legion would almost certainly start a "war" with them, (though the Legion outnumbers them 100-1), as they use advanced medicines an other tech, which is banned. Not to mention that the Gunners have very different ideology than the Legion.

[@vahlen5281]

@@Demicleas The Legion uses advanced ranged weaponry as well. In fact, they use them more frequently than the NCR in NV, so that would not be a problem. Bigger issue woulf be the use of chems among the Gunners.

[@MattNeisinger]

I've always wished Bethesda had done more with all of the games factions and sub factions, like the Corvega raiders, the Forged, Tower Tom's crew, and Red Torrey Tourrette's gang, too name just a few. These groups could have had very interesting RP interactions, but Bethesda majorly dropped the ball. There should really be an option to (attempt to) initiate dialog from a distance, especially with NPCs who don't immediately attack, but attempt to warn you off, and particularly those groups with interesting stories. Imagine being hired by Tower Tom to eliminate Red, or be hired by Red to rescue her sister, and all the shenanigans which could have ensued. So many missed opportunities.

[@l.warner3951]

I actually agree with the Vault 75 being the origin of the Gunners. It just made a lot of sense

[@TheBHAitken]

One of the impressions I got from the Gunners was that they were an invading army that got stalled because they didn't know what they were getting into. Remember that before the gunners came there was the Institute which tampered with the world above, and the Minutemen above trying to keep the Institute's horrors in check and providing the only real order outside of fortifications like Diamond City. Once the Minutemen went down, the Gunners found themselves alone in a hostile environment with horrors like the Supermutants somehow replenishing themselves. Added in the growth of raiders due to the destruction of the remaining law & order in the land and you can see how they would find themselves hard pressed to do any more than hold on to a few outposts and fear anything that approaches. I agree such a setup would allow a viable fifth faction. And personally, I always thought they came from New York which is probably why the Brotherhood had to come here by air.

[@akramgimmini8165]

One of my Favorite Factions but they aren't really fleshed out at out Wish they would have been explored a lot more

[@hornet370]

It’s also theorized they’re a proxie organization of the Enclave, or they are the Enclave but rebranded to avoid being targeted by the Brotherhood, or other enemies

[@user-tw5qx3k3hj]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Gunners have a larger role in the next post 4 fallout game. The vagueness of the faction and the hints of outside funding scream foreshadowing.

[@josgretf2800]

A new york based game would be sick. especially if they ended up being funded by the Enclave, trying to covertly climb back to the top after their defeat

[@EvilSSP]

Giant missed opportunity, especially with McCready being a companion option. I also love how Beth just abandoned the entire Talon Company.

[@christopherconard2831]

One of the companions talks about how they'll work for anyone who has enough Caps. How about me? I've got over 100,000! I'll pay them 2,000/month to never hear about a kidnapped settler, some raiders that are giving them trouble, or the rest of their useless issues. Just let me see an occasional pile of bodies as a receipt.

[@justan324]

the sim settlements 2 mod does cover the gunners even more, letting you deal with them during the chapter two story

[@rrrrrrr187]

My headcannon is that the gunners are the result of the vault 75's experiment to make super soldiers or are at least the direct descendants of them. The kids were heavily trained based off the old word military, had exceptional combat skills, were fiercely loyal to each other, and escaped into the wasteland. Currently, that same vault is under the occupation of said gunners.

[@ghastlyghandi4301]

The gunners are like the mirror faction to the minutemen in a way, they’re both military organisations that organises themselves and dressed in a way similar to the pre war United States, and they both are around to act as guns for hire to the settlers and traders of the commonwealth. Except the key difference between the two is that the minutemen have moral principles while the gunners don’t.

[@thedirector9580]

Something to think about: what if Talon Company and the Gunners are both under the secretive employ of the Enclave (as they are trying to hide, and rebuild, as it is highly unlikely that they are truly gone)

[@Kitsune44X]

Talon, similarly, IS being employed by a mystery someone that definitely isn't a fan of stability for the region and/or Vault Dwellers out in the world.

[@agreatmanlookingtotheright]

Imagine. A mod created more lore for the gunners then Bethesda did for every faction except maybe the BOS.

[@villings]

there's nothing bethesda hates more than the "lore"

[@Intr0vertical]

@@villings that's just a lie lmao

[@John.McMillan]

Nononono, you just need to buy this random ass book, read these two extremely out of the way terminals, go to this website, talk to this NPC in a different game, and ask some random game dev who worked on a part of the faction. Like 95% of other Bethesda games. I dont like that lore dump stuff at all, it seems like a massive after thought that even conflics with itself alot. Thats why I liked Skyrim and New Vegas, in the games themselves you can just either be told the history or read the lore instead of having to wonder about on the internet. Fuck knows how many hours I've spent reading everything in Skyrim or talking to any random NPC in NV.

[@christianwilson5956]

It seems very much like the BOS and institute are the only really intended endings

[@Intr0vertical]

@@John.McMillan Bro what? When has that ever been a thing in Bethesda games

[@Alex-pc1hw]

Honestly, having the Nuka-World DLC be Gunner focused rather than raider focused would have been a substantial improvement to the base game. Meeting the Gunner higher-ups in a region they have on (relative) lockdown, doing quests for them to earn their trust, dealing with their byzantine internal politics and finally taking the park as a means to support their operations in the commonwealth, thus tying into the base game. Plus, that way they can be fleshed out as a faction that is somewhat of a middle ground between the Minutemen and the Brotherhood in terms of gameplay and story, with the player still being able to claim territory and build settlements (maybe they're made regional commander of the Commonwealth by Gunner HQ or something), but with access to a more militaristic supporting base than the Minutemen can provide.

[@Slayer_of_Demons]

Mercenaries are common in every fallout game and the Gunners are just a large and very well-organized mercenary group using milsurp gear and miltary-style organization. They have a reputation for taking any paying job and for being very effective at what they do, which explains how successful they are. Their ranks are likely filled by former raiders and settlers looking for a better life and willing to get their hands dirty. That's it, no intricate backstory needed, and it makes total sense in lore.

[@Slayer_of_Demons]

Talon Company is pretty much the exact same situation, except based in DC and everything I said applies to them as well. They're just a large group of skilled mercenaries.

[@jokester3076]

It’s possible that the gunners are unknowingly working for the institute, their supreme leader could’ve been abducted and replaced with a Synth replicant like Mayor McDonough in diamond city.

[@aquamare1452]

always thought personal option, the gunners was a group drived from the talon company from fallout 3. who traveled to the commonwealth and just recruited more people who where ex-raiders or other wastelanders

[@Intr0vertical]

Gunners should've been way more fleshed out

[@joeywaters5559]

I like to think the Gunners are from New York - or The Boroughs, as I like to imagine is its post-war name.

[@glamrockbonnie5983]

There is a mod called operation Manhattan where you lead a BOS squad to take down the gunners in NYC its pretty cool

[@LewisB3217]

I kinda wished we saw more from the gunners, much like a lot in FP4, really needed some depth

[@malteschaper3782]

As my character once rightly said: 'Gunners are just Raiders with better armor.' As others have said: boring, missed opportunity, etc.

[@justinmacdonald2102]

The group at Nuka Station led by Kaylor are technically the 2nd group of gunners to attempt entry into Nuka World. Half of the first expedition died in the bottling plant and the rest of their force is camped out on bradberton overpass. Quite a lethal bunch on the overpass too, sporting 2 sets of power armor, a fat man and 2 assaultrons.

[@legitbikerguy6015]

I really wish we could've partnered with the gunners as the overboss! Imagine the possibilities they could have had.

[@ChrissieBear]

I wish the Gunners had been one of the main factions instead of the BoS, and the BoS weren't present at all. The Atom Cats could've been the main Power Armor faction, and be independent of the main story, while the Gunners could've been the faction with vertibirds, pick ups, and military patrols.

[@oliwardcomics]

that gunner Sergeant is gonna be upset with you once he finds out you killed his twin brother Kellogg

[@c420blastin]

I find the extremely weird that for the gunners being mercenaries they are weirdly shoot on site with the player

[@Dee-sz4jc]

Part of me believes they're descendents of the national guard or military. Possibly a mix of the two but somewhere along the lines turned to raiding/Mercenary work to survive which kinda makes sense. Would've been interesting if they were more fleshed out.

[@Gwam_Ham]

Thank you for covering this faction even though you can't interact with them outside fighting, they are and should be seen as a faction. 1 because they are so large and they are one if not the first really big threat. 2 they are organized like a faction and use a military ranking system to enforce power to smaller groups in their faction. 3 they are always in some building with a strategic point and actually know how and why to pick big areas with lots of view and hard to get to places where they're based.

[@Slop_Dogg]

Great video! I second a comment on here recommending a cannibalism video. There’s quite a lot of it in Fallout!

[@andrewtatescigar7122]

2:04 the most effective way to use the fatman

[@CRUELLANDER]

It’s disappointing that we cant have the Gunners as a joinable faction. Maybe in the remaster for Fallout 4 we could maybe be able to join them. I mean I think the Nuka World Raiders should be a joinable faction that plays part of the story of destroying the institute or another raider group that’s joinable in the commonwealth. I think the Enclave should’ve been another faction we could’ve joined. Honestly I think Fallout 4 is a addictive game that can be completed in honestly 3 days to 4 days well that’s how long it took me to complete the story.

[@HeilSol]

Keep in mind (cite the US pre-War flag) that the Nation was divided into "Thirteen Commonwealths". Federally administrated sectors comprised of former states. The Commonwealth in Fallout 4 is more than just Boston. It's all of Massachusetts, Maine, Vermont, Connecticut and New York. A big place, comparable in size to modern France+Belgium. Obviously, we don't experience much of that, but it's likely the Gunners originate somewhere within. In that same vein, the Minutemen would likely expand (assuming you go this route) to protect the entire region, as defined pre-War.

[@---_---_---_---___---]

Always had a headcannon of the Gunners being Enclave funded as a independent scout force.

[@leogazebo5290]

At first, I thought they were the remnants of the Enclave but now I think Bethesda just forgot about them.

[@MatthewChenault]

The Gunners are a missed opportunity. At the very least, they should have been a minor faction that could be aligned to side with the player in a similar manner as the minor factions in Fallout: New Vegas.

[@twistedyogert]

I would've liked if you could join them as a faction. It would be great if they could get them to be allied with the minutemen and essentially become a post war police force for the commonwealth. Honestly that's probably what would happen in real life. Very few people will take a bullet without some sort of incentive be it money or protecting the people or community they love.

[@ian7064]

My own head canon is that the gunners are the remnants of talon company who regrouped and rebuilt themselves into a new and improved paramilitary organization. Perhaps getting dismantled by the lone wanderer and subsequently seeing how powerful the BOS and Enclave were made them realize they needed to upgrade if they wanted to be able to survive and conduct their business. They could've left the DC area to establish themselves in other areas of the east coast and avoid open conflict with the BOS (at least for a time). Plus, don't the gunner attack the GNR building in a creation club mod? Why else would they be there if not to reestablish themselves in the capital wasteland. Anyway that's just my own speculation

[@fadedflame2537]

The gunners would’ve been a great joinable antagonistic faction

[@BucketBoatable]

Mercenary, in a wasteland, a monster? Gunner story path sounds more like a neutral path. Nuka world then could have been evil.

[@Mankorra_Gomorrah]

Personally i like to think that the Gunners come from New York City or Hartford and basically own the city that they began in. From there they conscript the locals of their densely populated urban area and the locals they come across into their ranks and then sell out these contingents to enrich the units leaders back home. I don’t think Cyprus is the overall leader of the Gunners but is instead the head gunner for Massachusetts who reports to someone above him probably in charge of the whole north east USA.

[@Mr9Guns]

Gunners seem pretty similar to the NCR from NV. Also how are they mercenaries? You never see them fighting for anyone else.

[@colddaze6680]

The vault 75 theory makes a lot of sense for sure. If the Gunners being the remnants of the genetically engineered soldiers program/experiment by Vault Tec. They busted out of the vault eventually. Saw the state of the wastes, and just went with the best way of survival that they knew. Staying in some kind of disciplined military unit. Not only are they better trained than most , they are definitely tougher than most. Even gping hand to hand combat with some female commanders few times, they fight harder and are tougher than most in the wastes. Could be explained by the intensive training and bio engineering regimes they went through. And no doubt they kept the training up. As far as who is pulling the strings? Unlikely any surviving Vault Tec leaders, that set up the original program as the original set of super soldier kids rebelled and escaped the vault. Could be anyone, from another kind of Tenpenny, to maybe Enclave remnant. Who knows exactly.But I do like the idea that they originally escaped from vault 75. Set themseives up to become a successful mercenary group. They have managed to requisition few vertibirds, and even some tanks in Commonwealth. So either they are setting up a bigger player financing them. Or they are setting themselves up to become a more powerful faction.

[@Xenodragon]

Other possible theory, Gunners are an organized Enclave force remnant.

[@Chaosdivers281]

I would honestly pick them out off all the others if I could

[@DiegoDiaz-iy7sf]

In my fallout 4 fanfiction, the Gunners are les by an Enclave officer that survived Fallout 3, taking over an aircraft carrier named the U.S.S Mayflower literally wrecked on Plymouth rock. It's an area to the south of Boston that would not have been nuked, and an Enclave Colonel would have the knowledge and credentials to access U.S. military supply caches, enough to outfit a small army. It explains the rankings and organization, and how the brotherhood knows about them. The name change could be due to the knowledge that the brotherhood would burn them to they ground if they found out who was really in charge. They could have gained knowledge of the institute from one of their operatives in D.C., moving into the Commonwealth to track them down. It represents a massive missed opportunity by Bethesda that they are just 1 dimensional cannon fodder

[@freddyandfoxy7526]

I honestly think that they should have added a option to join the Gunnars. Because the Sole Survivor was once in the Military and I think he will join them. Because they are Military like

[@quirinoguy8665]

The moment the Gunners becomes available I would've instantly joined up with them and do it again in almost every playthrough, I always play as a Merc in RPGs.

[@madhippy3]

Idk what game your playing but Gunners will absolutely shoot you on sight like and raider and raiders will sometimes set up tolls too. They are raiders but better flavored.

[@goat1176]

A video on Talon Company would be a cool edition to this series.

[@THESLICKNESSEDM]

This story was great loved finding that vault and I'm surprised more vaults didn't end up like this

[@stephentheriot9912]

My head canon is that the gunners might be either outcast remnants who never rejoined the brotherhood or they're survivors from the pit who fled after the lone wanderer liberated it

[@hugoheavens9863]

I think it would be a great reveal if it could be discovered that the Gunners were hired by The Institute to finish off the Minutemen. Perhaps have the Minutemen have more quests after receiving artillery, where you retake Quincy and move on to attack Gunner Plaza. The named npc there (I forget their name) isn't killed instantly but is downed. They reveal that the Institute hired them before they die. This could anger Preston and open up the quests to takedown the Institute with the Minutemen.

[@Quarter324]

Fallout 4 was a turning point for me with my thoughts on Bethesda and their ability to create Fallout games. Coming off the high that was New Vegas, Fallout 4 was a fun albeit shallow experience. It had its moments, but ever faction felt so… empty, visionless, static. Faction interplay was rigid, their goals simplistic, and their morals either good or bad. There’s some grey in the Institute, but they’re essentially techno-fascists so they’re mostly a net negative for the commonwealth. The Gunners are a great example of this. You have this neutral faction that, on paper, could upset the balance of these faction wars within the Commonwealth if one faction could hire them on. Or, if the player is so inclined, perhaps they (or better yet you the player) could have their own ambitions of domination in the Commonwealth. Alas, that’s fallout 4. A lot of cool narrative concepts and ideas, but all of them half-baked and shallow.

[@ghostsofwargow2511]

It’s beyond dumb that you can’t join them, The Forged, etc.

[@caesarspeaks]

I think the gunners would be an interesting antithesis to the Minutemen but we sort of already got that in Nuka World with the raiders there.

[@C4551DY]

I really wish Goodneighbor and the Gunners were more explored factions

[@Blei1986]

i guess it was just many small groups of military personal that survived the nuclear blasts and kept the rank and military system as a power structure, then expanded and attracted many other (also civillian) survivors and grew in size - which means they expanded and searched for good strategic location to strengthen their position. this also explains why they don't really tollerate other factions

[@kadenceflorence5179]

I feel like ordinary vanilla fallout 4 was meant to have 6 main factions. 2 Large: BOS, Institute. 2 Medium: Minutemen & Gunners. 2 small: Railroad and possibly atom cats or another undeveloped faction. With additional factions via dlc. It's my favorite game as it is but it could have been so much mors

[@Danielsworlds]

I think the greatest tragedy you Fallout 4 is that you cannot side with either the Gunners or the Minutemen. Either faction would have justification for controlling settlements expanding their power and building out a military force. Just one for good or evil karma. The way that we can side with the powder gangers or good spring early in Fallout New Vegas helping to set a tone early on the ability to choose between the Gunners and the Minutemen would help to do the same for Fallout 4 and flesh out the evil side of karma and role-playing in a game that severely needs more choice

[@woodysmith2681]

Gunners are a Fallout 5 faction and part of the transition from Fallout 4 to Fallout 5. If Fallout 5 brings back the Enclave, we'll find that the Gunners' purpose in the Commonwealth was to promote chaos against Minutemen, Railroad or any group that would stabilize things. It's why the Gunners avoid Super Mutant fights but take on Brotherhood of Steel patrols.

[@loganwithlightsabers3051]

I remember when I saw War for the Planet of the Apes the military dudes in that movie reminded me of gunners because they’re a military faction in the post apocalyptic world

[@rubiepie]

I wish there's a mod with side quest that, if you have a good reputation with the gunners, they don't open fire you when going to their territory.

[@darthvaderreviews6926]

This might be pessimistic but IMO The Gunners, as far as the writers were concerned, were nothing more than this: _"Okay, so the game will have Raiders. But... We can't JUST have Raiders."_ *"Well, we've got Super Mutants and other monsters. Yeah though, I see your point, we need another enemy type, like a variation on humans besides things like the synths, to mix up combat. Like a different Raider faction!"* _"Hmm, why not make them like army types who are mercenaries, and will do any job for cash?"_ *"Boom, that's a new raider faction, great job, let's get coffee. Then, we can have an equally long, equally exhaustive talk on what The Institute's motivations should be!"*

[@gg_sam7847]

I really wouldn't mind there being more ways to finish the game, whether it be as a Gunner or as a Nuka-World Raider. Or whichever other minor faction you normally can't join. Also they took Quincy which I would argue would have been a bit bigger of a major settlement than Goodneighbour

[@spiderz5145]

I like to cheat and make the gunners friendly to me so I can roleplay as a Gunner, it’s kinda fun.

[@Kitsune44X]

Has a mod addressed this that I'm not aware of? Sim Settlers 1 has the Conqueror expansion but that's the closest I'm aware of. Would like a "you can't join us but you can work with us" route at least.

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

wrong version . the new version Sim Set 2 has thos updated , have to use the web site they made for it - Sim Set 1 out out dated

[@cinnamonflavord]

I was seriously confused when I saw a vertibird with gunners in them, I thought it was some glitch or something. Good to know.

[@oscarcordero7811]

Maybe they come from the remnants of old Army personnel and who knows, maybe in Fallout 5 we will go to their region. Because Bethesda likes to hint the next locations of their games in the previous ones like with the institute quest in Fallout 3.