What Happened To the Gunners During Fallout 4?

If you're like many other Fallout aficionados, you may be pretty familiar with the group known as the Gunners in Fallout 4. But, does this group have any roll to play in a post fallout 4 universe? that's exactly what I set out to explore.

[@DragonxFlutter]

I always assumed that the Gunners are just fancy raiders. Give some raiders a gimmick so it’s not completely monotonous fighting them.

[@cgcouch]

I mean they’re just reskinned talon Co

[@DragonxFlutter]

@@cgcouch Maybe in appearance, but not in function. In function, they're just Raiders.

[@davel9252]

Like the Fiends, Jackals, and Vipers in New Vegas

[@thefrozenyak5272]

@@davel9252 And to a lesser extent the Nuka World raider gangs and Triggermen.

[@DamnedSilly]

That's because that's what they are. I can only thing of two or three encounters where they act like mercenaries instead of acting exactly like any bandit faction.

[@Reksoch]

It would've been cool if we had the option to join the Gunners. I imagine them as the second "failsafe" faction just like the Minutemen are, the player resolving the rivalry between the Minutemen and Gunners in one way or the other would make a nice secondary plot next to the main quest.

[@DeisFortuna]

I feel like both Acadia and the Nuka-World Raiders could work as back-ups too. Like, Acadia would *kinda* just be an expanded version of the Railroad ending, but on a save where you take over Nuka-World *before* dealing with The Institute, then, well, dealing with The Institute feels like a topic that's *probably* gonna come up during a Raider takeover of The Commonwealth, just like, logistics wise. Can't risk having perfectly good, loyal men, getting replaced by Synths, after all. That or forcing The Institute to make Synth Raiders to join ya. Edit: also it would be funny if the Gunners ending was almost identical to the Minutemen ending but you just have to pay a bajillion caps to hire them instead of constantly helping out Preston.

[@kyleharrell6624]

I would have taken the gunners over the railroad. And Nate's military experience would explain his quick rise to the top more so than the minutemen. Maybe a Mr gutsy could pull up your service file and vouch for you.

[@janoschjobstmann4588]

I would see just paying the gunners to solve your problems like I need to build a teleport tou can help? And then you kidnap a scientist for that.

[@thekiwinomad]

I was kinda thinking the same thing. If you could join the gunner and broker a deal between the gunners, minutemen and the BOS with danse in charge. It add law and order with the Commonwealth. Whereby you have to travel to nukaworld to secure project colbolt. I would also like to see the child of atom play a greater roll at some point. Maybe something like they are the one responsible for fev while trying to created atom. Or something like that.

[@windwalker5765]

Okay, headcanon time: I use the Gunners to rework the Nuka-World quest line. After the Minutemen take over the Commonwealth, the Gunners recruit many Raider gangs and merc outfits to try and retake the region. They establish a new base at Nuka-World, with several groups they've previously done business with. The Pack raider gang is where the Gunners and many others bought their attack dogs, and now they're using the Safari Adventure zoo to breed and train vicious creatures to set loose against the Minutemen. Likewise, the Rust Devils were the Gunners' source for robots, and they've set up a repair and manufacturing facility in the Galactic Zone. They have the smaller but elite mercenaries of the Operators and Talon Company for special missions, and a small number of Vertibirds to move them around. They'e capturing slaves to set up farming operations in the valley around the park. With control of the monorail connecting to the edge of the Commonwealththey plan to launch new attacks in the Minutemen's lesser defended western flank...

[@TaskForce-th5sl]

Can we make the assumption the sole survivor is the general? If so, will their presence affect the gunners or will the SO end up being a boss level NPC in power?

[@B-zk9bt]

I prefer this version you made to what we got.

[@Ahriman_362]

I don't think gunners would recruit raiders since they try to be better than them. They despise raiders because of their chem use and lack of cohesion

[@windwalker5765]

​@@Ahriman_362 This is after the Minutemen thrash the Gunners and drive them all the way out of the Commonwealth. At that point, they need anyone they can get just to make up numbers. The Gunners, Operators, and Talon Company are the part of the force doing trained, tactical stuff. The others are just cannon fodder.

[@jcohasset23]

One location you missed is the Gunners have a small presence at the South Boston Military Checkpoint that partially resets. It is unfortunate that in Fallout 4 they function just as a more dangerous raider group and I agree with many that the end of the Minutemen questline should have allowed the opportunity to retake Quincy.

[@thorsforge2905]

I'd say it isn't as dire as you make it. Most of the locations that the Gunners lose permanently aren't truly outposts. Rather, they were mission sites. Hallucigen is one example as is the Salem Witchcraft museum. The major strategic locations that hold the map remain in their hands. Quincy in the Southeast, Gunner Tower for the southwest/HQ, Hub city wreckers holds major crossroad in the Northeast, Interstate exchange in the North West and the hospital holds the center of the city. They are the top dog of the minor factions and remain in controlling areas of movement for the Commonwealth.

[@realsupergonks]

i find it to be a dire position for the gunners, if you lose 10 different locations where your presence was originally know, and 2 of them are majorly affected after being wiped out, that's a really clear picture of the kind of situation you're in.

[@magww1]

Simsettlements did the gunners a major favor and made them a real faction. These groups always seem to be [insert minor antagonist here] and its clear from what you have brought up they are like bowling pins. Designed to fall. However, there is so much missed potential here what with how they role play as the 2070's toy soldiers. Such a shame we didnt see them deploying real tactics, shouting commands, carving up super mutants and taking on heavy handed contracts only undone or overcome by the sole-survivors cleverly placed wrenches. Great video, I would have FAR preferred a gunner DLC than a Raider DLC. Dunno what the fuck they think at Bethesda, its like they're under water. They can hear the fan fiction but its blurred and muffled.

[@aleNoyz91]

Betesda is a lazy and dumb development studio...so much potential wasted

[@realsupergonks]

to me it felt rather unnatural that the minutemen & gunners never got a final confrontation in the base game. luckily, the creation club does have one quest that gives you that "final" feeling, even if it is limited (you facing off against the gunners to recapture quincy.)

[@cstains5543]

Personally I think there's a lot of significance in the Kaylor letter. It mentions senior staff sending her and her team long after the Major that is with the deathclaw egg mission is long since dead. And this also happens long after every named Gunner could also be dead, which means there is senior staff somewhere. Also even though not every location respawns the ones that don't generally are main quest or major side quest locations where respawns often don't happen in Bethesda games. Probably because it runs the risk of too many things respawning. It all suggests to me that the Gunners are not actually from the Commonwealth, at least the part of the Commonwealth we get to explore, but they are from somewhere and that somewhere has a lot of pre war equipment that the Gunners do have access to. It all suggests to me that they are another group of descendants from the US military somewhere in the northeastern part of the United States. Likely they either have a well stocked military base in their control somewhere we are not aware of or they have a working weapons factory in their possession, maybe both. It's also important to realize that the events of Fallout 4 are not supposed to happen over the course of months or years, but weeks, perhaps a month or two. Any group that takes a major hit isn't going to immediately rebuild especially if they are having to come in from somewhere else. Which also makes sense in that any of the non-location Gunners never become automatically hostile to you no matter how much damage you did to their faction elsewhere. Real world you'd become one of the biggest bounty targets for the Gunners anywhere after several of the attacks on Greentech and the Vaults, but you'll find Gunner mercs walking around calmly late game if they spawn in as guards to a random merchant as if there hasn't been time enough for your name and basic features to become knwon to other Gunners as well as the bounty on your head to be circulated to the average Gunner in the field.

[@dullahandan4067]

I always assumed broken resets were just the game being poorly made, not a deliberate choice.

[@BUG25985]

I always thought of the Gunners as a raider group who HEARD about the Gun Runners out west and decided they were going to larp as them (and failed)

[@BUG25985]

it's like the devs wanted there to be some type of merc group like the Gun Runners but didn't want (or couldn't) commit to a whole new faction in F4

[@isaiahporter5860]

Gun runners weren't mercs, just a weapons vendor. They make and sell firearms. Gunners would be more in line with Talon company from fallout 3.

[@erek3034]

Except the gunners don’t sell weapons there contracters

[@theblazenscot618]

I need to applaud your writing and editing. The wit and short clips are always on point. I started watching for the topics, I keep watching for the commentary.

[@FamusJamus]

I did a Nuka World playthrough fairly recently, and it looked like the Gunners got kicked out of their "toll road" random encounters by the Operators if you side with them. I don't know if it's a direct replacement or if the Gunner random encounters ended based on progress in the main quest, but it's funny to imagine the Gunners losing out to a frigging DLC faction.

[@chezmcdave]

If I’m not mistaken there is a holotape somewhere that says there’s more gunners somewhere outside of the commonwealth so they may come back in a hopeful future instalment

[@patriotforlife6592]

Would've been interesting if you could turn the Gunners to your side For example: after killing the top dogs at gunner Plaza, a surviving leader requests a meeting via the radio there and you give then a choice, to integrate them into the minutemen, dissolve the organization or leave the commonwealth through speech checks. If your charisma isn't high enough it turns into a shooting gallery and the gunners are done for good. What do you think?

[@austingoodman2177]

I think it's fitting that the game hints at the Gunner's decline, since the Quincy massacre establishes them as a major enemy of the Minutemen, and it's implied that the Minutemen route is the canon/default ending to the game. Bethesda probably figured that players would be wiping out those Gunner strongholds at the same time they were building up Sanctuary, recruiting settlements, retaking the Castle, etc. One organization crumbles while the other rebuilds itself to new heights.

[@surge1229]

The Gunners are a mercenary group so even if the leadership collapses the gunners would probably just become random groups of hired guns loosely united because of the name the gunners

[@DamnedSilly]

In Hub City their proximity would sure imply they were there because of the Forged next door. It's one of the only times in the game they look like they're on mercenary business instead of just being a big raider gang with a fetish for olive drab. It looks like someone was fed up with the Forged and the Gunners had occupied the best position to launch an attack on the foundry.

[@davegallo8166]

Gunners are the upgraded raiders

[@DJ_Bonebraker]

Yeah, the Gunners are on their way out, especially how I've been playing with the Minutemen ascendant & allied with the Railroad & the BoS (and every Gunner base in range of Minuteman artillery). Also, this is only semi-canon at best, but if you have the Minutemen vs Gunners Creation Club DLC, that adds yet another strike against the Gunners: After you lead the Minutemen forces into Quincy & wipe out the Gunners & plant the flag over the town, the Gunners will still respawn, but the Minutemen & the Minuteman flag are still there, and the Minutemen seem to have the same flag that settlers do, meaning that they can only be killed by direct player action or collateral damage (as I found out in my first playthrough when my artillery strike on the overpass accidentally got a friendly along with all the Gunners it wiped out). What this basically boils down to is that every time you go back to Quincy after a global reset, there's a huge fight raging in the town between the Minuteman garrison & the respawned Gunner attackers, and that even if you don't do anything, the Minutemen will eventually wipe all the Gunners out if you're in range for the cells to be loaded.

[@woodysmith2681]

Two theories: 1. We'll see them again in Fallout 5 as a playable faction. In my mind, Fallout 5 will take playable factions and expand on settlements with more consequential choices, so that "Gunner membership + Settlement = Gunner-style settlement building only". 2. We'll see them again because Deacon's line about "the people who behind them" smells like Fallout 5 set-up. My theory is Institute and Enclave working together since Enclave has the manufacturing and reach but lacks man-power while Institute can create the synth-power but lacks the large-scale manufacturing know-how. It would explain the continued absence of Zimmer.

[@brothers_of_nod]

I think they exist outside the commonwealth, so it would be fun to see them later and find terminal entries of a commonwealth division remnant about how some vault dweller decimated their forces and wiped out their branch forcing an exodus.

[@Average_Enclave_Soldier]

I’ve always imagined the gunners as more of an invasion force rather than a commonwealth native faction, they may have a larger and stronger presence wherever they originate from and it would explain why some locations get resuplied wether partial or full it had to be sent from somewhere, soldiers and gear don’t pop into existence

[@lprules619]

I've explored this theory and made a comment about the Gunners on Oxhorn's video of the Quincy Massacre. What I believe happens is that yes, Colonel Cypress and his Gunner forces are active somewhere in the wasteland but most likely that the Gunners in the Commonwealth end up being driven out of the Commonwealth by the Minutemen and/or the BOS. Of course this is being posted after watching the Fallout TV show, good show btw.

[@undefinedusername2359]

"I think I've deciphered... the code." Okay, everything you said following this got my subscription. Love a bit of informative videos with humour sprinkled in there.

[@orivilletycoon1437]

This is why i consided sim settlments 2 canon lol

[@CH-ml4rz]

I’d love if the location slides were accompanied by a map! I’m not knowledgable enough to be able to pin all of them by name only.

[@matthewmanning2539]

When I went to the museum of witchcraft a dead Gunnar fell to the floor

[@todd.cannon]

The Gunners would be a great faction to attempt to recruit, either by hiring them or by convincing them to fall in line with the Minutemen and any other surviving factions. Honestly, a lot could have been done for all of the factions, especially considering that the PC can rise to lead each of them. If Nate becomes the Director of the Institute, why destroy it when he can control it? And so on. Good vid.

[@stag6161]

The Nuka World DLC while never confirming the gunners hold territory outside of the commonwealth mentions a Colonel Cypress, who we never encounter leading some to suspect the Gunners have territory outside of the commonwealth

[@rednnnno]

I always found the Gunners weird, like if it was a 4th faction you could have joined and in the early design they decided to only manage 3 to avoid taking 4 more years to release the game by have to create a deeper back story for them, as it's never quite clear what their actual intentions are... As mentioned in the video, there are a lot of references, named NPCs and a fair bit of dialogue with them, and yet no quests. They seem to be all over and, again as mentioned in the video, in the end, nowhere...

[@undefinedusername2359]

Sim Settlements did an alright job with giving the Gunners an actual standing in the world, albeit a bit on steroids

[@thehandsomeone8369]

If the Minutemen regain ground or if the Brotherhood exert their righteous authority over the commonwealth, the Gunners are doomed to extinction.

[@DiogenesDworkinson]

There are a few major points to consider: 1) the Gunners are not Commonwealth natives, so losses there are more a failure to grow than a weakness, 2) the Gunners are basically organized raiders so likely never truly vanish as long as even one recruiter remains (which makes the Minutemen absorbing candidates their biggest real loss), and 3) the Gunners have a MASSIVE tech advantage with comm relays, vertibirds, laser weapons, and combat armor. These guys aren't going away because they are too well equipped by home base as Raiders+, only dropping out of situations with no profit margin.

[@payodomingo6789]

For me ive killed them so much in the same places especialy gunner plaza quincy and vault 75 and 97?i dont remember the actual number over n over they simply stoped respawning essentially creating deadzones

[@josephrockholt5840]

They only went into Salem because they were trying to get away from the deathclaw

[@Gripen1974]

My impression is that gunners aren't native to Massachusetts, they are mercs send in from the outside to do some job for some outside faction, they do local mercenary work but they have some hidden paymaster. We see hints of it is their logs, they do small jobs to bring in extra caps but they have a greater mission and goals dictated by some hidden benefactor.

[@thegradyfiles]

7:23 The Sole General-Sentinel-Director-Agent

[@LordRunolfrUlfsson]

I should review terminal entries, but I recall the Gunners were hired by someone from the Capital Wasteland for some mission in the Commonwealth. Perhaps they are in decline because that mission is complete, and they are no longer getting that funding.

[@hermos3602]

The Sole Survivor is a curse to the Gunners.

[@PalleRasmussen]

There are no Gunners alive on the map when I am at lvl 120 and finish playing. They seem to have an HQ away from The Commonwealth though.

[@Goobergoobing]

I think the gunner are like a cartel get in and stuck there

[@fauxnoob4157]

I think if you mix NyQuil and Vodka, you're going to black out before finding yourself in a cart with a different bethesda NPC pointing out your conciousness. Bright side, you get to yell at dragons.

[@penguinsrockrgr8yt216]

In a way I get the feeling they leave the commonwealth sometime after the game ends The GNN plaza doesn’t seem like a proper HQ and more like a FOB for commonwealth operations They are being pushed out of the commonwealth at best and being dissolved at worst They’re a mercenary group their members will eventually see the writing on the walls and leave to take contracts on their own, look at macready the only reason more gunners aren’t leaving is people will come after them if they do As the faction weakens that’s gonna happen less The gunners aren’t gonna last they will die out and their members will either join raider gangs or stay as mercenaries working for themselves

[@AlekTrev006]

Mr Grey, don’t you feel that there’s clearly some Outer Command of the Gunners - BEYOND Massachusetts (or at least beyond the area we play within, on the map).. such as Colonel Cypress … and whatever Brigadier or Major Generals are above him even, in their High Command ? 🤔

[@mikekempf1456]

If you take the Minutemen route, they probably end up going to war with them and the gunners probably eat shit and die

[@wilomica]

Once I have most of the 33 settlements going I put killbots on "Trade Routes" ;p that happen to go by where Gunners respawn. Like Gunners plaza, if you notice Egret tours marina, someville place, murkwater construction, and Jamaica plain are perfect.

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

The Gunners were big fish in a small pond, so it was inevitable that they'd collapse as soon as the sharks showed up. And that's a pretty interesting narrative they really should've explored.

[@G1ingy]

Sometimes I wonder if Bethesda had intended for the gunners to be a major faction players could join but cut it due to time constraints. They'd have been more interesting than Railroad that's for sure.

[@danpitzer765]

I think one big thing seals the Gunners fate. Despite the issues with Maxson's Enclave-like mentality, it's still the Brotherhood of Steel (just a VERY nasty version). So you have a very powerful paramilitary force packing pre-war state of the art and post-war advanced hardware that /absolutely hates it/ if anyone else has advanced military hardware. Then you have the Gunners. They have lasers. Plasma weapons. Assaultrons. Combat Armor. A small but maintained and functional amount of power armor. They are mercs, using the tech in EXACTLY the way the Codex says must not be allowed again. And they have let the Brotherhood find out they exist. They're done. They don't have the numbers and firepower of the NCR, but have assuredly made just as much an enemy of the Brotherhood. Regardless of which ending is canon, someone in DC now knows about them, and the whole east coast BOS is probably planning out an actual elimination campaign.

[@TheyCallMeNewb]

Additionally, the Gunners always lose in random encounters to the Nuka World gangs. The peak Nuka World gangs are all level 69, whereas the Gunners are as high as 94, and yet no victory*. (*If a legendary Gunner spawns in with a beastly weapon, upon equipping it they can win -- they take no losses when one spawns with an explosive minigun).

[@justinjames965]

I think the Gunners were Kelloggs army, the institute is never seen in conflict with them until Kellogg is dead

[@justinjames965]

@@wod5203 I just think that Kellogg anticipated the Institute turning on him, he implies it in his memories and it would make sense for him to build up his own group to fall back on. Kellogg and the Gunners also share the same policy, "I'm only going to ask you once" which could just be coincidence but it's interesting.

[@CaporegimeMarcus]

As someone who regularly farmed Hubs Auto Wreckers, GNN and also a "Gunner Farm" I made in a settlement, I can confidently say no. They will not survive...

[@theenigmaticst7572]

I'd like an option to join the Gunners, but I'd rework them into a mercenary faction - I always felt they were too like Raiders but with different armour. I see them initially being used as outside security around Diamond City (not inside; that's the job of the Diamond City Security Force - but definitely fighting off Super Mutants and Raiders outside in the barricades surrounding Diamond City), maybe Bunker Hill as well after you've dealt with the Raider quest there (and haven't convinced the Mayor of the Minutemen's worth). I would really like to see the player be able to join the Gunners and take on assignments (especially the more morally dubious ones) for money. It doesn't have to be fancy, just a couple of radiant quests and a link to the Minutemen questline - first you're laughed at for joining the Minutemen, then warned to stop after they start becoming a threat and finally you are booted out of the faction and become target number one for Gunner hit squads and any Gunner wanting to make a name for themselves when you are declared General of the Minutemen (which I would have happen later - after you've taken the Castle, rather than before). In keeping with the "Mercenary" theme, I'd also have it so you can hire Gunners as non-essential companions - maximum 2, but not counting towards the Companion limit; they can haul your stuff, watch your back and generally fight at your side providing you've got the cash to hire them, and keep hiring them, and you aren't marked as an enemy by the Gunners themselves. Finally, I'd make a few minor changes here and there - no Gunners in Vault 75 - I think it would be better there were Raiders there, since they heard a rumour about all those Chems stashed in the vault. Instead, the Gunners are trying to break into Vault 88 - I have it in my head that they might be trying to establish a hidden base for the Gunners in a Vault they believe is abandonned. Quincy might have a whole separate narrative amongst the Gunners - picture this: the Mayor of Quincy was having trouble with Super Mutants coming from the South, attacking the town, so he decided to contract with the Gunners to deal with the problem - the Minutemen are scarce at this point, so the only really credible option for a wealthy town is to purchase military protection, even if they have their own guards. The Gunners come and deal with the Super Mutants, but when it comes to payment - then the Mayor reveals he has a limited amount of money to give them. In retaliation, the Gunners try to take the town and the Mayor calls on the Minutemen to help, claiming they were attacked by Gunners and surprisingly Hollis' men, not knowing everything about the situation but knowing they need to restore the Minutemen's reputation (and do what the Minutemen do best - help each other out) - come to fight. Hollis does not believe the Gunners story about money owed, and less so when the Gunners declare if the Minutemen and town do not surrender, they will give no quarter to any survivors. The rest, as they say, is history, but ends with the Gunners holding the now dead town of Quincy, and effectively blocking off caravan traffic to the South of the Commonwealth. It wouldn't diminish the Minutemen, and would still provide enough reason to retake Quincy - but there's now an element of grey in the story that to me makes it a lot more interesting. As for Nuka-World, you could try to convince the Gunner Commander on scene that you've come to find their lost squad; depending on how persuasive (and accurate) you are, they can let you through, tell you to get lost, or just decide to attack you. Just my ideas here.

[@centuriondominicus7871]

I personally believe you’re just looking to deep into it, and not nearly as many places deserve the title of dead site as you gave since it feels like the term implies the areas were gunner bases, and many were not, such as Nuka World Transit, the Museum of Witchcraft, Hallucinogen, the Gauntlet, and so on, were not really under full gunner control since they were tat those locations fulfilling contracts. Their Nuka-World presence seems to most likely be unrelated to having once controlled any of that region as well, given it seems they’re hunting someone or something, I think the Nuka World forces are actually new. The NPC only resets may very well be for gameplay reasons, and be unrelated to any form of implied background story. Maybe I’m the wrong one, but it really feels more like just a load of assumptions with little that actually makes sense without other established assumptions. Also, I’d imagine occupied Hub City, and Mass Bay Medical in order to get supplies. Hub Cities got scrap, and Mass Bag may have medical supplies left over.

[@Aegxs]

The gunners functionally serving as raiders with better gear is annoying because it could be more. And with how Ecliptic is handled in Starfield, it doesn’t seem like they want these types handled any other way

[@joshlepage488]

I always kinda of assumed the Gunners weren't from the Commonwealth and were the New Kids on the Block, so to speak, and only came to the power of the strongest faction in the Commonwealth after Quincy and only chose to continue manning the positions they are being paid to control after all if it's so dangerous everyone was killed why return? Especially if no one is paying them to. As the Minutemen (or whichever faction) grows and expand their influence on the locals, the Gunners find fewer recruits or conscripts, so consolidate and, in my mind, at least providing all other locations are taken after Gunner Plaza in the Commonwealth they are done claiming land and stick to their territories outside of the commonwealth and only mercenary jobs in the Commonwealth but of course a big bounty on the Sole Survivor for their role in dismantling operations

[@jameswatkins9569]

I figured they integrated with the BoS shortly after their arrival in the area. The prydwen couldnt bring that many members on it afterall, so they recruited locally, and the military-like mentality of the gunners make them prime choices

[@jameswatkins9569]

Keep in mind, they use ranks as well as wear military gear but they are still a glorified raider faction

[@tonystrange4304]

Keep doing what you are doing spectacle

[@caileancampbell7498]

While it hasn't been canonized, it has been endorsed by Bethesda, Sim Settlements, expands on the Gunners role throughout the Commonwealth. In Fallout 5, if one is ever made, may expand back into the all territories, Commonwealth, and Capital. If the Sole Survivor destroys the Botherhood's attempt to destroy the Institute, they too splinter and fall apart like the Gunners have. It's my guess that the Gunners, and Brotherhood, will dissolve into ingroup fighting like the Raiders. Fallout 5, if it's set in the same general location, will probably have the Gunners as a recrutable faction, like the Raiders of NukaWorld.

[@Del_S]

It's interesting, the nemesis of the Minutemen feels like it's set as the Gunners and yet goes nowhere. Not even a mission to assassinate the traitors in Quincy let alone take it back (outside Creation Club). They're basically the Yes-Man option and you meet them first. And yet, you almost certainly will meet the Brotherhood as a result of minutemen quests if not just beelining for Diamond City. And their first enemy? The Institute. Well, okay, Ghouls, but you get my point. It's as if the writers were more interested in setting up a Brotherhood-Institute fight or something and the others were just Plan B and C for the non-Institute ending. The Gunners could have been a mirror to most of the main factions. Instead they're just the Worf Effect, to show the Institute as a threat, or just Raiders With Lasers for the occasional dungeon. BUT there's also the fact the Gunners seem to be an outside force. They don't actually originate in the commonwealth, it appears, so it's possible wherever they did roll in from (Maybe they're from somewhere between DC and the Commonwealth) could be or have been a future setting on the shortlist for Fallout 5: I Can't Believe It's Not Elder Scrolls

[@airiannawilliams3181]

The one thing I never understood about the Gunners, is "Why are they hostile?" They are supposed to be mercenaries, but you are unable to hire them to protect your settlements because they always open fire as you approach since day one. Also, there is no indicators as to why they are hostile. You can see that they are caps hungry when you go meet MacGreedy in the third rail, who happens to be "operating in Gunner territory". If you never talk to Preston, nor MacGreedy, should they really be hostile? I personally don't think they should, as you haven't sided with their oppositions as of yet. As you tear through their numbers, they should be thinking "Hey, this person is tearing us apart, we need them on our side." But yeah, the gunner days are numbered, I doubt they will survive the events of FO4 for very long. Because no matter who you side with, there is a far stronger counter in the end, except for the Railroad, who effectively put themselves out of a job by destroying the source of the clones. If they were machines, there would of been no reason to kidnap a baby from a vault. They needed Sean's DNA since his DNA is prewar and untouched by radiation. Modify the DNA slightly, and grow them clones, and implant the synth component that controls their physical bodies in many ways. AKA every Gen3 synth is your child.

[@sungarcia421]

Great analysis, thanks for sharing!

[@zlboyle90]

The gunners need to be reinforced. They are a mercenary company. Their supply lines might be too stretched to get very far.

[@yoloman3607]

The Gunners deserved to be a main faction far more than the Railroad or Minutemen. More firepower, more clout, more cohesion, more territory, more training, more everything. They own a shit ton of good locations and control local trade. They would be the faction you try to negotiate and harness to get the weaker factions on a level playing field with the BoS because they fucking need it.

[@unfunnyandunoriginal8452]

I wish the gunners were more advanced and not a higher tech raider-esque faction like if they were more like the Van Graffs that would be mighty interesting

[@coopernut]

Bruh what happened to the gunners in general man

[@SaidNoGaming]

0:02 New video?

[@arcdecibel9986]

Getting trashed repeatedly by the Sole Survivor must seem like an 18k run of bad luck for the gunners. But considering that they would have had to face the Institute and/or the Brotherhood eventually, the truth is that the game was rigged from the start.

[@theweddingsinger1970]

Do settlement attacks by gunners reduce?

[@saraphys5555]

I mean... I think it IS bad writing... (#EmilSucks) But I think the worst part is that the Gunners had the potential for a great storyline in the game... what if the key outposts we took for the Minutemen were being held by Gunners, and not just generic raiders? What if a real writer had written Fallout 4, and made it so you could interact with the named Gunners, and actually hear things out from their side, about what the Minutemen were like? What if Fallout 4 had a Karma and Faction system more like New Vegas, and we could get to a point where we'd choose between the Gunners and Minutemen? ...what if ALL the factions were like that, though? If the Railroad was more developed beyond a stupid idea, and were ACTUALLY located in many cells across the Commonwealth, a parrallel to the Institute whose entirely Centralised. Back to the Gunners... what if after you chose a side, and essentially crushed the other...THATS when the Brotherhood arrives (because apparently Fallout has to have the Brotherhood in everything now)... Or better yet, what if the Minutemen WERE the East Coast Military Survivors; decked out in National Guard Power Armour... and the Gunners WERE the escaped experimental children from that Vault; so the conflict between *them* was Enhanced Humans vs Power Armour humans? If joining the Gunners ment access to Biotech implants, while joining the Minutemen ment access to top-notch Power Armour? ...yeah... Iv been creatively writing for 25 years, and been a GM for TTRPG's for 7 years... I feel like Bethesda needs to hire someone like me to write their games, because clearly their writers cant write an actual story for the life of them... I mean, did you SEE Starfield? The Community in the first week made a better flying robot ship then the game devs showed off in their own showcase!!! "Bethesda... we're creatively bankrupt!" LOL

[@jamesmeldrum4563]

It doesn't help that Will Shen has left Bethesda. He contributed a lot to Far Harbor which was arguably better designed than the base game.

[@aleNoyz91]

Betesda is lazy and dont do well their works...until the modders fix their game they dont care...they make me angry i hope thei failed as a studio and obsidian make the next fallout

[@ALEXANDER1318]

The main story should have ditched the baby and focused on the Commonwealth instead. Maybe you should be able to reforge the CPG to stand against the institute by bringing the Gunners, Minutemen, Diamond City and Bunker Hill together or something.

[@elbruno3515]

12:00 wait there is a basement????

[@chancelund7650]

Of course the gunners are getting wiped out. Best case for the gunners you go institute who would leave the gunners alone and possibly employ them, but still could wipe them out if the gunners are unfortunate enough to find something the institute wants. But worst case? They face guerilla abolitionists, mechanized Kazynski nazis, and every armed hick in the Commonwealth that doesn't work for the gunners.

[@grokashrimp]

Thank you

[@MersadieOlit0n]

should of made me the general who rebuilt the gunners & not the crappy one min men

[@liwojenkins]

Try Sim Settlements 2.

[@TheFrozenGarvine]

I hate dealing with Gunners. Gunners plaza was awful, armed to the teeth and beefy as hell. Actively avoid gunners for most of the game lol

[@drakkondarkspell]

I've been disappointed with the Gunners. Every playthrough, they're the most challenging non-Deathclaws I deal with, and they are inconsequential to the story, except as backstory for NPCs and locations. They're a classic example of wasted talent. I haven't looked at them in Sim Settlements Conquest, yet, as I'm building a new rig to play and I want to wait until it's ready to enjoy FO4 and TESV in 8k upscale (ok, I'm just modding the hell out of them and my current rig won't run them properly). They deserve to have a shot at a future and I'd actually like to have a way to fold them into my factions and use them to secure the Commonwealth for the growing communities I'm setting up. They're an effective fighting force, but their leadership is too violent to reign in their baser instincts, which is why I feel like culling them every chance I get. Just imagine them using all those checkpoints and outposts as recognized security locations that are "safe" from raiders. They could really enjoy a lot of respect from traders and other groups. Their redemption arc might have made for an even better story than what we got in FO4.

[@quantemwensday]

the gunners are annoying they should be like a mercenary union or something but they are pretty much raiders without the chem addiction

[@timothy8428]

Me.

[@eXcAlIbUr_aLmAsRu7I]

‏‪0:32‬‏ 😂😂😂😂

[@MalleusSemperVictor]

Bethesda should have just cut the Gunners and reworked all their references to just generic raider gangs. The way they're so half-baked comes off as bizarre to me and is just another way of making the game less interesting in a narrative sense. Fallout 4 had so much potential, but it's just an empty world full of clutter with a bar napkin story that has hints of interesting things, but the weight of boredom is too heavy for the narrative to bear.

[@colbycartwright8668]

Perhaps over analyzing the gunners?

[@aaronskuse2207]

The missed, wasted, and lazy potential of Fallout 4 is depressing and is definitely making me pessimistic for the TV show.

[@ShawnCollier-ew8zu]

As a US Marine Veteran I would if betting put my money on any group that has Military training. They will have the numbers to succeed due to training fire power and ability to hold large camps that are fortified and equipped to deal with any situation they may face. They will also have medical aid and persons trained in many fields that will better the outcome.

[@archdornan8349]

Sometimes the gunners can be seen fielding vertibirds, certainly a very rare and valuable asset for a side faction.

[@CalciumEnjoyer]

Don’t they crash it after a while though?

[@archdornan8349]

@@CalciumEnjoyer which faction doesn't tbh 😂

[@imzesok]

The thing is, there clearly was a plan for them, very likely, some big climax between them and the minutemen, and like a lot of the content it just never got close to finished. Probably some elaborate war system like we saw in GTA San Andreas, resulting in you and Preston wiping each outpost as you gain new settlements, and manning said outposts for yourselves. Where does this end? the final battle at GNR, opening with you laying waste to the outer perimeter using the artillery, and breaking in with one squad from one angle while another comes in from the other, with the artillery cutting off any other means of escape. Your squad and Preston's meet in the middle and you put down the leader: Captain Wes. Congratulations, Quincy is avenged and you now have a Secondary HQ on the other side of the map should you decide to not level it, and the gunners are no more. One less raider group in the commonwealth. We must remember that the Institute for the Minutemen are an OPTIONAL antagonist, whereas they are the ONLY antagonist for the other two factions. Maybe this was intended to change after we wipe out the gunners, but what we got is neither side cares about the other until we step on toes, get banished and the Institute attacks the Castle. They will otherwise coexist peacefully until you decide they shouldn't. Either way I do agree they absolutely weren't meant to survive.

[@pavuk357]

We know a lot of content was cut of Fallout 4 and that it plays significant role in why main story sucks. Considering how underdeveloped Minutemen storyline is, I won't be surprised to find out that Gunners were supposed to play a big role in it and there had to be more mechanics but for some reason (likely time concerns, it wasn't like Starfield they spent almost a decade making) but there was too much work done to remove them entirely thus they were left as basically slightly better raiders with some lore to them.

[@DamnedSilly]

@@pavuk357 I really don't think of it as cut content since it's mostly just undeveloped ideas that were thrown in early and never got around to being fully developed. Somewhere along the line somebody did basic background for them but that's as far as it got.

[@woodysmith2681]

I assume that there would have been a confrontation at the Castle between the two factions that was turned into Defend the Castle. I do take the line from Deacon about "Who is behind the Gunners?" to mean that we'll see them or a variation again. I always thought the Institute was paying them to sow chaos, hence why they would attack the Minutemen but retreated from the Super Mutants. Alternatively, I would want to see The Enclave behind them.

[@imzesok]

@@woodysmith2681 You know, I too kind of assumed it was also either the institute or some enclave remnants. Either that or Vault-tec somehow did manage to survive, and are funding them. I personally think the latter two are more likely, otherwise I'd think they'd be carrying around institute laser weapons instead of the superior prewar army ones.

[@WillianBusch]

You just plagiarized Sim Settlements 2 storyline and mixed with that terrible mod Sheriff something.

[@skywise001]

Id love to hear your thoughts on the SS2 treatment of the Gunners. Also the story in general - maybie do a lets play? :D You skipped the non immobile posts like escorting merchants. The gunners are the 2nd defender of the Commonwealth (with the Minute Men) that allowed comuities to let their security go lax. So with the final fall of the Minute Men the Gunners lost a very supportive partner leading to their collapse. Also leading to the raiders moving into the Commonwealth in more force.

[@eyteeninthewild]

Talking about whether they'll survive or not, at least it's a no in the Commonwealth. Their numbers start dwindling from the Greentech massacre, and it goes downhill from there. They have a potential to become a good post-epilogue enemy though, probably if they're made the main problem in checkpoint defense (and increased rate of Gunner settlement raid)

[@samueltitone5683]

Of course the gunners days are numbered. My settlement guards need some form of armor and marine armor is too expensive to be practical.

[@jcohasset23]

@@wod5203 By mid to late game combat armor is an excellent and fairly plentiful source of equipment for settlers.

[@gg_sam7847]

Ooooo I like the conclusion part of the video. It's kinda like, if there were history books being written, the Gunner era was the calm before the storm. The Commonwealth was essentially like the Japanese Shogunate, the ruling factions was an amalgamation of Mercenaries, it was an uneasy and oppressive "peace" but it was peace all the same. And then as they either directly or indirectly lose so much of their power by the up and coming factions you get wildly different systems. You would pretty much get an Anarchist Shadow Government with the Railroad, an Authoritarian Shadow Government with the Institute, an Authoritarion Exclusionary Ethnostate with the Brotherhood, and something akin to what the perfect ideal Communist society with the MinuteMen

[@AusSP]

> perfect ideal Communist society ...A military dictatorship where you only get protection if you pledge yourself to the whims of the heavily armed warlord, and maybe not even then?

[@geomodelrailroader]

I can agree with you Jeff the Gunners days are over. Lets take a look at their settlements. Quincy when the game begins and the Sole Survivor and his modded wife wake up the Gunners destroy Quincy and take over the settlement and nearby Vault 95 and the radio station and rename it Gunner Plaza. Conditions Quincy changes hands and the Gunners are defeated: If you do the Brotherhood quest "Cleaning Up The Town" the Gunners never respawn and Quincy becomes a Brotherhood staging area. If you do the Railroad quest "Randolph Safehouse 5" Quincy will be taken over by the Railroad if you evict the Gunners. If you do the quest Combat Ready you can get a weapon and the Gunners are evicted for good. And if you do the quest War Paint the Gunners are evicted for good and Quincy is retaken by the Minutemen. The other settlements Mass Pike, Mass Bay Medical, Hub City Auto Wreckers, Bradberton Overpass, and Postal Square reset so there are always Gunners here. 2 settlements do a partial reset Vault 95 partial reset you can't go back here once you have Curie and Cait and complete their quest, and Gunner Headquarters. Places that are dead sites Mass Fusion lost to Institute and Brotherhood, Hardware Town taken over by the Institute or the Brotherhood, Vault 75 evicted by Synths, Salem dead site when you kill the Deathclaw in the church, Nukaworld Transit dead, Grandchester Mystery Mansion dead, Gauntlet dead, Greenetech dead site once Better Crop is completed, Hallucigen dead once you complete the quest, and Nuka Bottling Plant dead as part of the DLC. The Gunners are losing and they know it.

[@ragnarmon2982]

I would like to side one day with the gunners :D so they get a fair chance :D

[@peteredwards2318]

This depends more on the actions of the player, surely, than anything else? I mean, sure, if you just follow the story quests and don't go too far off book, then the Gunners are, well, a bit of a non-entity. They aren't major players in the base game at all, just the pain in the ass du jour for a few missions. They could easily just exist out of the players sight and mind. However, if you are playing really vindictive, say with a rule, like "Any faction whose members do me damage at any time, will be erased from the face of this world", then no. They can't survive. Nothing can. When the player becomes death, all within their sight is theirs to slay, and all things fall beneath their sight in time.

[@ashcarrier6606]

I'd say no, they don't survive. Not with me clearing out their plaza headquarters every other week and leaving mines at their spawn points.

[@crayonchomper1180]

Mass Bay Medical Center has Freeway access and is the tallest building around for quite a ways, so it makes sense to use it as an observation post, especially for a Mercenary group as organized as the Gunners Kinda weird no-one is ever on the roof surveying the city though also Captain Wes' terminal at Gunner's Plaza talks about an unnamed General breathing down his neck, so their sphere of influence expands beyond the borders of the game's playable area, they've only taken a beating in the Boston Metro area not across the entirety of their holdings, where is their High Command located? Not in Boston. New York? Providence, Rhode Island? Somewhere in Connecticut perhaps?

[@crayonchomper1180]

@@wod5203 could be using a sniper

[@patrickmoody2494]

Abraham finch sneaks into hubcity to scav. Pretty bold, against such a feared faction. The forged poached some recruits from them as well after a victory.

[@emrik99]

Talk about not being able to unsee something. Until now i didn't think of them as just disposable baddies. I guess i always expected more . Their equipment and mercenary background teases that there should be more to them.

[@PalleRasmussen]

Hub City can have both Colonel and General, if you are significantly high lvl.

[@LittleNala]

I beat the game (Minutemen vs Institute, still on good terms with RR and BoS), and have carried on playing, and the Gunners have become stronger than ever! I'm forever having to Defend a Checkpoint from them (and rouge synths). In fact since beating the main story, there is more activity than before - it sounds like a non-stop Civil War going on across Boston. I was hoping things would quieten down, so I could concentrate on Quest Mods. If there was a quest to take them out, I'd do it, if only for a bit of peace and quiet! I'd rather have a treaty with them though - they are not the worst of the bad guys.