The Hidden Bloodshed Of EVs, Cobalt Mining, & Modern Slavery (w/ Siddharth Kara)| Change Agents Ep2

Siddharth Kara is a Visiting Scientist at the Harvard School of Public Health and holds a law degree from London’s BPP Law School. He's the author of numerous books, including ⁠Cobalt Red: How the Blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives⁠.
Today on Change Agents, Siddarth and Andy Stumpf discuss his book, the reality of modern cobalt mining in the Democratic Republic of Congo, and how Change Agents listeners can make a difference.
Shop IRONCLAD Apparel: shop.thisisironclad.com/
Change Agents is an IRONCLAD original. Visit www.thisisironclad.com to learn more.
Be sure to subscribe to @thisisironclad on KZbin and major social platforms.
Shop IRONCLAD Apparel: shop.thisisironclad.com/
Subscribe to the podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Follow us on Social -
Instagram: / thisisironclad
Twitter: / thisisironclad
Facebook: / thisisironclad
TikTok: / thisisironclad
Subscribe to our Newsletter: thisisironclad.com/newsletter
Music License: MB01GBCIVNLLE5R

[@thisisironclad]

If you enjoyed this episode and want to see more inspiring stories of change agents, we have great news for you! Our latest episode features BRCC's Evan Hafer discussing Veterans Transitioning into the Workforce. Don't miss out on this insightful conversation - check it out now! kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpTPaXuOl8mkhMU

[@deemushroomguy]

Coal mining is still happening... Before cobalt, coal mining was focused on for it's human rights violations... They're still happening (perhaps now, more than ever, as it's needed to power all the new E.V.s in China)... I feel like cobalt mining has taken the spotlight, but it's not the only issue with the "clean energy" world.

[@dorranlarner8611]

As someone whom spent time as a regulator overseeing the mining industry, specifically coal mining I knew the environmental issues tied to the cobalt mining existed. It makes "blood diamonds" look like childs-play.

[@cant_see_me7924]

The irony that we all watch this on a device that has mined cobalt in it. Where do we even go from here. A lot to think about.

[@nemesisbreakz]

And the hardware that was used to produce this video. I don't know what the answer is, to be honest, but I'm only a few minutes in ,so hopefully, I will hear one.

[@maureenobrien4807]

The Hypocrisy. ☹️

[@MiguelGonzalez-ei9og]

2 for 2 on a GREAT, informative programming. Even though Mr. Kara’s book dealt with Cobalt mining, he missed out another place on this planet where there’s A LOT of Cobalt AND lithium..... Afghanistan.

[@nate_dodge]

Pretty wild that nobody knows this is even happening. Time to spread the word!

[@keithgoddard4192]

Throughout history, people have looked the other way when it makes their lives easier to do so.

[@thealexsimulator2068]

People know, but the ideology supported by cobalt is stronger than people's human conviction.

[@MrTooEarnestOnline]

We have known this is happening

[@christineroberts9780]

People will not listen to the truth

[@smitjs01]

Most of society chooses to live in delusion. They know this is going on but it’s not directly effecting them so they don’t care. Humanity is beyond sick brainwashed and evil af

[@Boston617]

How does this channel only have 19k subscribers? Definitely one of the more professional editing jobs, and great interviews. Much love from South Boston.

[@thisisironclad]

Appreciate it Mike! Thanks For Watching 👍

[@erickiyoshiphillips2323]

They will grow man this isjust starting. His audience from his podcast will start following him and all of his viewers from other interviews will come in time

[@ApoIIo95]

I subscribed just now. It is the first I am seeing this.

[@cathywhitehead2509]

SPREAD THE WORD. I stumbled on you guys by chance and just reading the titles of your previous episodes gets me pumped to watch them. I have a 4 hours drive to Maine in a few days and can’t wait to have your episodes make it feel like a 10 minute trip to the corner shop!!!! I am now following and forwarded the intro video to my parents and my brothers.

[@gunbacker9428]

@@erickiyoshiphillips2323 Andy will definitely be on Rogan again, and this channel will blow up if he plugs it on there.

[@hunterjones9822]

If you want to drive a car that has a lower environmental impact then go buy a 20 year old used car. All the resources required to make it and deliver it in a finished form have already been expended and the only new pollutants are the ones it takes to operate it. Keep it tuned up and running efficiently and your good to go.

[@eriklarson4082]

Thank you for speaking on this. Everybody looks at me like I'm crazy when I try to tell them about cobalt and lithium mining.

[@anywx550]

Im on the same page bro

[@markmiller8903]

Me too. All my friends think I'm a nut. I used to bitch about the shipbreaking industry but the cobalt mining is worse.

[@scottzuber6904]

Always the same the road of good intentions are paved with evil I could only imagine what these people go through but this is the new blood diamond

[@kimieann1975]

Exactly what I was thinking. And know wondering what ever came of all of that?

[@miguelcastillo-cedano8386]

This needs more coverage

[@user-ss9ft9ly7h]

I’m really proud to see humanity still has heartbeat. Especially witnessing these badass warriors, such as you, Andy and Jack Carr. It’d be interesting to watch either of you interview more people w hearts & minds in right places. Subjectively, I’d suggest Preet Bharara.

[@woaken]

Of course this is hardly being pushed. Thank you for bringing this to us 🙏🏽

[@PinstripeJim]

Great episode Andy. We have to make more and better educated decisions. This show needs a huge following and I expect it to grow immensely.

[@amymegginson-uz7jj]

Another Hero! Thank you for such important information!

[@bigtinyhomeadventurebigtin5201]

Bicycle is the answer! Good for you and the environment Also super fun

[@jacktreeger5676]

He'll yeah

[@antoniomilone5472]

It is a short and to the point episode. Thank you, Andy. And I'll be sure to pick up the book. These companies need to do better, period.

[@plunger110]

Woohoo, been looking forward to this series!

[@littlespressurewashing]

Thanks for sharing this with everyone

[@flightmama3191]

❤ Magnificent gratitude beautiful SOUL, i really loved your interview & Great questions🎉❤🎉❤🎉 I knew EV'S we're Not good, But I had NO idea about the Slave labor. I'm telling of these horrible atrocities and getting involved with my local community..... Thanks 4 sharing Ur TRUTHFULNESS ❣️❣️❣️ Fantastic work 💓😘💓

[@falcon5215]

Really good 1 Andy. Eye opening for sure.

[@ratta_tat]

Lots to think about.

[@gregp558]

Great episode!

[@benmarshall3931]

Great stuff Andy. Haven't listened to Cleared Hot for a wee while, no reason other than been busy and not listening to many pods. Very good to see you diversifying. Will jump back on for some Cleared Hot also. 🤙

[@williamchase5698]

Good info Mr. Stumpf...... keep at it!

[@kingofskate08]

As a mineral dealer I understand this market a little more than most people, and the sad truth is, if you take away mining the population is often forced to take more dangerous, less paying jobs because theres no Economy. In Kivu and Rubaya especially its either mine gemstones and make 2-5 dollars a day or work at the local quarry turning sand stone into construction aggregate and make .50 cents a day if youre the most productive one. And you come to the fact that if you boycott or abandon the source then the only people who suffer are the poorest ones doing the labor. Its a clusterfuck. We have to instill ourselves into the Congo much like we did in Afghanistan, providing infrastucture, healthcare, protection from militias, improving the mindset of the population to see their own potential. We are not ready to solve this, we are only talking about it.

[@apotheoticoelacanth]

There's an 'economy,' obviously, it's just that they obviously aren't being paid what they should, and they seem to have nothing like OSHA regulations. So they become starved and mutilated for those reasons, not necessarily for a lack of 'economy.' From what I can tell, their area seems to represent a rather robustly pumping heart in the international economic scheme. Add regulations. Add pay. But of course, another problem is that the mines likely take up a lot of space, so maybe that does block out, partially, other ways of life that the land resources would otherwise accommodate. Are the people there allowed the self-determination to keep mining companies out, if they wanted? Probably not

[@kingofskate08]

@@apotheoticoelacanth its the 3rd world, they dont care about regulating and putting red tape on mining because they are there trying to earn $2 a day to feed their families, and perhaps send their oldest child to school for an education that pales in comparison to 1st world standards. These poor people dont organize because they dont know how. And the people who own the mines are warlords, you have to remember one of the worlds longest lasting conflicts is happening in the Congo, ifs its not run by warlords you can bet theyre part of the leadership chain. It is not in their best financial interests to allow western influences anywhere near their resources. If you read the book you will understand just how difficult it is to enter one of these mines let alone make changes to the occupational safety regulations. Sadly minerals dont form within in the confides of a safe space. Please I beg you, go to Kivu and ask my friend Joseph what employment opportunities there are. If you can get there, you will find nothing, 1 store to supply basic toiletries to 2500 people, a UN humanitarian convoy that delivers water and food once every few days when the mud roads are driveable, the only electricity powers the one running light in the town center and after a hard rain it shorts out. These are desolate places my friend, they do not operate or function like the western world.

[@henryhenry1974]

Yes man great topic

[@Zosima45]

26:22 correct and exact in his explanation

[@Ravensbreak]

I think people miss the fact that the miners are doing this because they have no other choice, without the meager income they starve and die. If you close the mines or stop mining cobalt, where do they do to earn money for food and shelter, where's the replacement?

[@kennethemmanuel2488]

I am from the Ivory Coast in west Africa. You need to know the only reason why these people have no other choice but to mine like that is mainly because of the wars that are started and funded by people at the top either by certain leaders in the Congo ,other African countries and western leaders that put those people in these conditions. I was born in 1998 and since I have been on this earth I still hear conflicts happening in the Congo because it’s a super naturally rich country in Africa.I invite you to look in the history of the Congo, look at the source and the area at which they happen and what that land primarily has in terms of resources. Whatever conclusion you will make should certainly help you rethink your comment. The rule applies generally across African countries

[@newtonpeart8573]

Australia which also has cobalt are in complete control of its extractives The West has to pay premium prices for the metal I imagine.

[@ericg649]

Our American privilege has shielded us from the reality of our conveniences.

[@itsmatt2105]

The people are digging voluntarily, no one is forcing them to dig. They did because it pays more than other work and it's WAY better than starving, which is very much an option in their area.

[@jorrinimaway218]

Wow, reminds me of Henry Ford during WWII. Building engines for the Axis and the Allies. Nothing has and probably will never change. This is so...I am truly at a loss for words.

[@erickiyoshiphillips2323]

Money brings the evil out of humans.

[@robertviering6785]

The problem is that it's not clean energy!!!

[@AlaskaJiuJitsu]

They know what they are doing, CEOs and chains of command need to be imprisoned with assets seized.

[@williamchase5698]

The demand comes from the bottom..... consumer wants cheaper stuff.....

[@johnmurphy1519]

It's crazy how blind to it we all are

[@PortalPatrol]

I have bought two smart phones since 2010, I have bought two laptops since 2008. I drive a 1995 vehicle that gets fixed vs replaced. The choice is up to each person.

[@elko1978]

Bullshit.

[@henryhenry1974]

Make me weep.

[@jaynedouglas9556]

I asked my brother, who is high up in the chain at a large European/American automotive company about this. He gave me the exact stock answer Siddharth Kara said they would. I love my brother, but he chooses to be so far removed from reality that he hasn't a clue.

[@bubbadiesel4961]

Good luck getting this through to the crazies, they don't listen.

[@davesclassicgaragetours]

Admittedly I had to skip through this video so I might have missed it but was the fact cobalt is used in the refining of petroleum even mentioned?

[@jt.8144]

On that note, I'm buying a Subaru instead of a Tesla.

[@henryhenry1974]

What Can I do to help get something done about this? it's a problem I of more and more often!

[@AlaskaJiuJitsu]

Geopolitics needs to pause and fix this. Hard to believe that any fiscal policy makers not willing to redirect resources are good people. Not paying attention to these atrocities should shock people into voting appropriately. Squad leaders win wars.

[@kimieann1975]

Politics will never fix this. Ever. Corporations will never fix this either. Doesn't matter if it's the tech industry, fashion , food, ect ect. The best vote you can ever cast is where you spend your money. I'm not trying to sound like I'm morally superior , hell I'm on a smart phone, staring at my solar panels & thinking about the new battery bank I just installed. Which by all definition makes me a huge hypocrite. That being said I can make better decisions for my homestead from here on out regarding my electrical purchases.

[@VDJmechii254]

its now or never action must be taken to change ways of mining this valuable mineral. the current artistic way is totaly unacceptable.horrible. unhuman. all the leadership of the beneficial companies must be summoned to give an account of it. otherwise all cobalt products must be prohibited in africa. this is insane.

[@das250250]

These points are very important and the developed world doesn't want to hear it because they get uncomfortable. However, one point , you can't easily put a developed mining program inside a country where the political structure and laws simple aren't a modern developed country's structure. It appears there is too much corruption structures to do it. Maybe I am talking from inexperience . It appears that a country cannot make quantum jumps ,it needs tine to develop into democracy with lower corruption areas . This is a very difficult situation. Perhaps there can be a tax to be rolled out into that country to develop it as in free schools for those children .which serves the future of that country.

[@Coalminer1611]

95 hours a week here

[@jamesgargoyle847]

I was thinking about buying electric lawn equipment but not now.

[@shaunbrowne3963]

I have a wired electric lawn mower, and use an extension cord to power it. No social justice issues!

[@davesclassicgaragetours]

Sponsor a DRC family $5-$10/day so they don’t have to go to the mine and quit updating phones and laptops so often, refuse the push to go EV and use more public transport so there’s less reliance on gas/petrol.

[@270Remi]

I would pay double what I do for my electronics if it would help, I'd also probably buy less.

[@erickiyoshiphillips2323]

That image is like slavery it reminds me pictures of slaves in America but think of North Korea and the slaves they have their also. This is crazy even though I used electronics with cobalt I think something in the congo needs to happen. Stabilize it like a real job have protective equipment and hours of work and pay rates. This is sad but most of the things we use is from labor camps like these.

[@maureenobrien4807]

Where are the porta potties and .roach coaches...?

[@texasdogg8498]

This is all good and well and well and good, but GIVE ME EVAN HAFER NOW! Edit: zoom in on his feet

[@Paul-gf9fc]

Green energy is not really so green.

[@isaacscafe6931]

its fucking insane what pepole have become to each other

[@shaynearthur9442]

The situation in the DRC is really as bad as presented in Cobalt Red but, unfortunately some of the information he was provided by his sources is incorrect. Some of the major players are 100% aware of the situation on the ground and go to great lengths to manage the situation. Not all the players are utilising ASM. However, the issue is very much political and reaches into the highest level and does need to addressed

[@sneakybow1]

Cobalt gets blended and goes into the supply chain. There's zero percent chance that any of the major players can say they don't have any ASM in their supply chain. Not a chance.

[@vladimirmihnev9702]

As horrible as all that is I think that if anyone stopped buying from those mines the poor people who make $1-2 a day and somehow managed to don't starve because of this, will now be making $0 a day. Which is a great way to get the good feeling that you stopped those people from working in abhorrent conditions and now they will stave but you won't see that. I don't think that is actually a good thing, to do. I don't know how to fix this, just saying that we have to be aware what our actions end up doing so to not taking a bad thing and make it worse for the people who are in fact suffering. One $ maybe almost nothing, but it's still much better than nothing at all!

[@carritohmc]

Or, companies can impose some basic standards from those they pay in their supply chain, which is also part of the Federal government's function. It's not like EV auto makers are operating at a loss, so there is some wiggle room, it's something that's applied to other forms of commerce, not to mention that some of these mines are flushed out with artificial bodies of waters that destroy the environment and deforest large areas, and destroy alternate forms of making a living.

[@matthewcamp9615]

Ethical and CCP profits don’t mix

[@jayb150]

Sauron 5:17

[@kimieann1975]

We're not going to tech or way out of this. Doesn't matter if it's our gadgets, clothes, jewelry. It all has methods and productions that are horrible and sketchy. It goes back to reduce & reuse. Folks say America in general doesn't have a culture, or atleast a universal culture. We do. Our culture is consumerism. Doesn't matter your color, religion, political views, or subcultures. Enmass we've been turned into mindless consumers. Top it off with most these days can't distinguish between a need and a want. If we go back 15-18 yrs ago to the grassroots green movement of healthy food, living a simple life. Not a cave man life ,but a life that can and does distinguish between need & want, we'd solve a lot of problems. Here & world wide. Ultimately it always boils down to us. The consumer.

[@patrickward7671]

Looks like a bunch of people sitting on bags making sure no one else steals it.

[@jamesnewsom5899]

Why is cobalt not just mined with machinery? Not that that is great

[@hulkangry5546]

Great work guys Keep spreading the word.

[@Mr_Clean]

I thought China held all the mining rights in the Congo 🤔

[@RamboBust007]

how else would we have billionaires.

[@jamessmith-hq5mr]

While I would agree that the images depicted in those videos are horrible, the people participating in them are doing so at their own volition. They are not being forced to mine cobalt.

[@maureenobrien4807]

WHOEVER HAS THE MOST COBALT WINS...

[@t-roy1605]

Siddharth Kara seems to be on something. Looks like he's going through withdrawals or something bad. I really hope he gets some help with whatever he's going through... something doesn't seem right.

[@markmiller8903]

EV OWNERS NEED TO PAY REPARATIONS TO THE PEOPLE OF THE CONGO.

[@maureenobrien4807]

WHY CAN'T THE CORPORATIONS JUST DO THE RIGHT THING - I'M SORRY I HAD TO GAG - I MEAN BUY THEM OUT - GIVE THEM SOME MONEY AND SCHOOLS AND AND HOMES AND W/E..

[@MikeSwartz]

Out of sight, out of mind

[@maureenobrien4807]

The Congolese must be like you didn't want us and now you need stuff from our ground. It's á can cç sac c VC, and we all Need to come to grips.wirh this Third World mentality.

[@mwhitelaw8569]

Interesting young man Vindicates my thoughts of electric vehicles

[@maureenobrien4807]

It's primitive as fuck. We're so fucked up they could make us all see the movie and would we voluntarily drop off our phones after the movie - we know hardly anyone would part with their brain extension...

[@theipc-twizzt2789]

Artisanal mines make up 15% of the mines in Congo, not all of them..... This is not the norm (Physically not possible - there is around 40 mio tonnes of ore (cobalt concentration is 0,3% on average) mined in Congo) Also Cobalt is a mere byproduct, those mines are coppermines. There are estimates of 1000 children, not 10s of thousands children.

[@fastrivers812]

This is just proof that those buying EVs are just virtue signaling. I've had many conversations with these EV owners and have pointed them to this info and they don't care. They are in denial and tell me it isn't true.

[@DarkCavalry1228]

When the Pyramids were being built, would you rather be Egyptian or Jewish? In America, 1875 would you rather be a US Cavalryman or a Native American? Would you have reversed that decision on 1876 at the Little Big Horn? In Germany 1942, would you rather be German or Jewish? The world is horror and chaos and chance. Blind luck and nepotism with 20/20 vision. The hard truth is that we didn't care enough about starving kids in Africa when we had rotary phones and green screen computers the size of a washing machine. And now we expect people to give up a device that they would commit suicide for? Globalism CREATES this. Everyone that flushes their fecal matter with potable water has facilitated this. This is the world we agreed to. 2023 in Texas I am glad I am an American, when the war comes to us...maybe I will regret it.

[@maureenobrien4807]

The pregnant women oh wow

[@maureenobrien4807]

Fiction - you mean LIES???

[@andrewbrown6522]

Im 100% against slavery but capitalism as we know it can not exist without a low cost base. So we need to figure out a better way. Ive made a point of trying to only buy north american made stuff. We have a healthy metal and petrochemical fabrication industry for supply. Ev are a great concept but the follow-through has been dismal imo. Manufacturers are too eager.

[@fredfrond6148]

For the record electric vehicle batteries made in China do not contain cobalt. Whatever his robust history in the topic the interviewee forgot to mention this fact. Go and check how much cobalt is in a Korean and Japanese electric vehicle battery. Chinese battery manufacturers use LFP batteries. Lithium, ferrous phosphate. Batteries with this chemistry are also much less prone to catching fire. I am thinking this dude just has some clever grift. For the record I agree that mining cobalt is an environmental and humanitarian disaster. So why are all westerners, including the guy being interviewed, support the narrative the EV batteries are the way to go?

[@straitarrow5784]

YOU ARE WRONG ! It is much cheaper and more effecient for a mining company to extract Cobalt by using bulldozers , excavators and huge trucks and employ 20 men to operate them . What you see in this video is thousands of men and boys being paid $4 per day which adds up to a bigger cost than using trucks and machinery. This is not cheap labor. The Congo government stipulates manual labor is used and they are paid $4 per day. $4 goes a long way in the Congo unlike America where $4 buys you nothing.

[@paperbags1]

Conservatives need to seriously consider the 2nd hand effects of unfettered American Capitalism.

[@sneakybow1]

Wtf does being conservative have to do with capitalism? Liberals are the ones pushing for EVs. Liberals exploit capitalism just the same as conservatives.

[@pegmeininger3483]

All people need to ask where, what and how are products being made. This is a human issue.

[@DoWork316]

The new Blood Cobalt version of diamonds. Those who have latched onto this sacred cow will never admit any wrong doing or ignorance as with many topics. Furthermore, I believe they will double down on the lies and besmirch anyone who doubts or contradicts them publicly. That foundation has already been laid. As for me I am disgusted. We are seeing moral dilemmas, for some, in that they must choose whats best for all people and not their wallet.