The Hidden Truth Behind a Legendary Astronaut's Public Life

[@mateostaplez7497]

Ward, I've been subscribed for about a year and have never commented, but this video really struck a chord with me. I was an USAF brat born in 1957 to a SAC B-52 pilot and lived in the spartan conditions you described on the postwar AF Bases. Obviously, dad was mostly absentee with the mole hole, airborne alert and Chrome Dome missions. With 4 small children within 5 years and not much support, my mom became a severe alcoholic after my oldest brother drowned. I'll be 65 this month and it effects me to this day. Another chord was struck when you imagined how loud the Saturn V would've been. That same mom, when my father was overseas during Vietnam, brought my two siblings and I to the Apollo 11 moon launch. We were probably over 2 miles away on the side of a two-lane blacktop, but when the Saturn V ignited and launched it almost bounced me off the ground with a seismic ground roll. My abdomen oscillated like a drum for what seemed like several minutes. When we walked back to the car about 100 yards away and turned on the radio, the launch vehicle was already over Africa. Then the announcer was saying that an Oakland As Rookie named Reggie Jackson was on pace to break Roger Maris' single season homerun record... I was 12 at the time, but I'll never forget it until the day I die.

[@maximilliancunningham6091]

Thanks for sharing that.

[@SuperTalleyho]

Awesome comment.

[@tigershoot]

Very interesting comment. You are very lucky to have seen the most famous rocket launch in history. Sorry about your brother. Very sad.

[@jaybee9269]

Great comment…it must have been quite awful having your dad so busy like that. Much enjoyed hearing about the Saturn V, though! I’d give my left nut to see one go up.

[@jonniez62]

I was a SAC brat born in 62 at Larson.

[@jshepard152]

I saw Frank Borman a couple years ago at Oshkosh on the 50th anniversary of Apollo 8. At that event, he read the passage from Genesis that the astronauts read while in orbit around the moon at Christmas, 1968. It still gives me chills to think about it. As old as he is, Borman is still very sharp, and mobile. He's an inspiration, for a lot of different reasons.

[@jshepard152]

Borman passed today, aged 95. He was a faithful husband, an Air Force test pilot, a patriot, and an astronaut. He was a man who helped NASA rebuild after the Apollo 1 fire, and the man they chose to command the very first human flight to the Moon in 1968. I saw him in 2018 and he was still sharp, mobile, and funny as ever. Rest in peace to a pioneer, American hero, and absolute legend of aviation.

[@dahawk8574]

"... and the man they chose to command the very first human flight to the Moon in 1968." Borman was not the _first_ choice. Ward does not mention that fact. These authors do not mention that fact. Borman was the second choice. The first to accept the offer.

[@dahawk8574]

16:34 - Michael's explanation is way off base. If he had thoroughly researched this, he would have known very well the reason why Borman was not the first choice to command Apollo 8 to the Moon. Here he has told a bogus, inaccurate story.

[@toddcitron7869]

Thanks!

[@WardCarroll]

Thanks so much for the generous support, Todd.

[@olbuck]

This is a benchmark interview. I like that you let the interviewee run with it, and lay out the story. Fantastic. Let's not let it pass that Lisa is one very beautiful and bright woman in her own right, as were all military wives. My wife of 51 years found out that "mission first" is certainly not restricted to military careers, but is part of all Type A driven individuals. Keep it up, Ward. Lots of us will never get enough!

[@toddcitron7869]

Ward, as a Ret. USAF Capt. And retired AA pilot (MD) your insights are absolutely fabulous. One of my best friends flew A6’s of the sh*tty Kitty (hey, that’s what he called it. He just passed away). I enjoy all of your work and I’m happy to help. Take care Brother!

[@Militaria_Collector]

Totally agree! As a retired airline pilot I bet you ha e a ton of awesome stories!!! Maybe it's time to start a channel

[@Boz_-st4jt]

My son Cmdr. Marc 'Oral' Stirton also flew EA-6B's off the 'Shitty Kitty' with VAQ-136. Now she's going to be scrapped. And, currently a F/O with SWA.

[@teleguy5699]

I think might know the guy you are talking about. Did his first name begin with an M?

[@timsparks7049]

I have 399 traps on Kitty Hawk I didn’t get 400 due to a math error. Unique claim though. 949 total!

[@myname9337]

I fly for AA currently. MD, 73 and 777 rated. Be thankful you're out of the game. I'm based out of DFW. I flew with VF84.

[@navigator5426]

Your content just keeps getting better. There are not enough words to describe how relevant this post is not just for today but for all time. There's still today, from what I've seen, a lot of misperceptions about being a military spouse. I wish everyone would see this post as there's an air of misunderstanding about being a Serviceman or Servicewoman's Spouse and this post just shatters those misconceptions. Imho this post is award worthy. And Frank Boreman and his Wife's story should be made into a movie. A Collosal Bravo Zulu to you and your guests on this post. Brilliant!!!!!.

[@scottcooper4391]

Long ago, I was told that "military marriages either last forever or fall apart faster than others", and as I have met other service couples, they generally agree.

[@evhvariac2]

Not enough words??

[@genearbogast7525]

Thank You for this personal and in depth history...... My father {USAAC} worked for Eastern Airlines for 37 years and educated us on the history of officers like Rickenbacker. Borman. Bong. Boyington,Yeager and others.....ALL of the Astronauts and Aviator veterans are heroes to us.....

[@kqschwarz]

I was born in 1957 and grew up on USAF bases in the late 50's and early 60's. The astronauts were my heroes and especially Frank Borman. This particular video really hits me personally, both because of my background, but also because I know how important a great wife has been to my success as a physicist, medical engineer and physician. I have always thought I was cognizant of my own wife's sacrifices for me, but this episode caused me to rethink that calculus and appreciate my wife even more. Thank you and your guests for this insightful interview.

[@ahcollier1]

Mooch, great episode. Thanks for bringing this to us. I too grew up in a Naval Aviation family in the 70s, with the sub-standard living conditions, small pay, the car that kept breaking down, lack of services on base, etc. My mom was one of those women who kept it all together while my Dad deployed over and over again. Things got a lot better in the 80s following transition to the all volunteer military, and it's easy to forget how bad it was then and how much better we had it on active duty in the 90s, '00s and beyond. If you're a military brat of that era, kiss your mom if you can and thank her for what she went through to support Dad and keep it all together. It's no joke when they say "Navy Wife: the toughest job in the Navy."

[@UtSlpilot]

Just by accident I had the opportunity to meet Col. Borman at an off-beat Cracker Barrel and he was extremely cordial, inquisitive, and very pleasant to talk with. It will be a memory I cherish the rest of my life. Thanks Ward, for doing this video!

[@UtSlpilot]

@Amy Taylor sorry, your email didn’t work. I tried to contact you.

[@dks13827]

in Montana ? or New Mexico ?

[@PRiver-sv2mc]

Being four miles from Pad 39-A for the night launch of Apollo 17, the best description of of the experience is the feeling that you get deep within your being, between the vibration and the overwhelming visual, audible, and mental sensations. Thank you very much for telling Frank & Susan's story.

[@brianarbenz7206]

Wow, Apollo 17's launch. Six and a half million pounds of thrust in the dark of night. I was watching on TV, and stayed tuned during the whole long delay, just to watch that. I was 14. I'd have traded places with you in an instant!

[@johngeorgegately7402]

Hope you are not getting tired of hearing this, but what you are doing is extraordinary. Thank you

[@K27fan]

I spent 41 years at UPS, 3 delivering packages and the rest in tractor trailers. I delivered in southern Calif and there were several small machine shops on my route. Every one of those shops made some kind of screw or part for the Apollo and Space Shuttles. They all had big photos of the Apollo ships in their shops.

[@Bigdaddy7777nz]

Thanks for this review with Liisa and Michael. Being in New Zealand, I purchased Liisa's book off Amazon and it is next on my list to read after I complete Fred Haise's book 'Never Panic Early'.

[@olentangy74]

Another tremendous interview, Ward. As a child of the sixties, I grew up with the space program. I was in elementary school during Gemini and if a launch happened during school, then class was put on hold and out came the TV’s. They were truly national events. A truly different day and time and a different America. The HBO series From the Earth to The Moon is the best series done on the moon race. I was living in Orlando Fl during the shooting of the series and had the privilege of being part of the production. I met Cary Ewles, who portrayed Mike Collins. The most memorable person I met was Apollo 15 commander David Scott who was technical advisor for the series.

[@rockbutcher]

Thanks again Ward for presenting wonderful, thoughtful conversation on a subject that so many of us knew nothing about. I was just a wee lad when Neill walked on the moon, but I remember my Dad grabbing me and holding me between his knees as he sat in the livingroom, forcing me to watch the tv telling me to, "watch this. This is history." That's one of my youngest memories being a '67 baby.

[@oldgoat142]

I was 6 years old when I saw that first step for a man, a giant leap for mankind. Those were turbulent, heady times.

[@acefox1]

Great video Ward! I always find it noteworthy and touching that when divorces were an epidemic in the astronaut corps the crew of Apollo 8 were all able to keep their marriages intact. Bill Anders still flies formation with his sons at their Heritage Flight Museum in Washington and his wife Valerie has been an important part of making that such a success. Bill Anders even named his P-51D Mustang “Val-Halla” in tribute to his wife Valerie. (You can see lots of flying video of that Mustang on my channel.)

[@rickgarner6395]

I have been a subscriber for a few years now and I have thoroughly enjoyed every segment. I was born in 1956 and grew up watching the space race, glued to the TV set for every launch. This segment is by far (in my humble opinion) your best yet. I will be ordering the book and I look forward to reading it. PLEASE keep up the great work, thank you for your service and God bless!

[@SuperBuzz71]

Great content Ward. I think many of the Gemini and Apollo wives fought through anxiety and I have noticed so many of the Apollo era astronauts ended up with divorces in the early 70’s. I’m always drawn to the story of Ed White’s widow Patricia also. The fact that attention has been given in media to them in movies like “Apollo 13”, and the series and book “Astronaut’s Wife Club”, plus a dedicated episode of Hanks and Howard’s “To the Moon” is very gracious but it makes one wonder and builds appreciation for what the wives and families of Vietnam vets went through at the same time.

[@Riverplacedad1]

My grandmother did sewing for Patricia. A wonderful family and we all grieved that day. Looking back to the 60s, I honestly have never seen any program that compared to our space program. Incredible sacrifice, bravery, and hard work by all involved

[@joevignolor4u949]

When Frank Borman was at North American trying to straighten out the command module after the Apollo 1 fire he noticed that many workers were lining up at the main gate of the plant at lunch time. He did some snooping and found out that many of them were going to local drinking establishments and having a few drinks during their lunch break. Poor workmanship had been a major cause of the fire. Frank put a policy in place where workers returning from lunch were screened to determine if they had been drinking. People found to have consumed too much alcohol during lunch were not allowed back into the plant. Frank stated that if workers wanted to go and drink during lunch they would not be allowed to work on the spacecraft after lunch. This type of screening for alcohol and drug use at manufacturing plants is still used today. Many places require workers to take a mental agility test every time they enter the plant.

[@TheRetiredtech]

Let's not forget the main reason of the fire was solely on the decision makers a the top of the process. Oxygen ring a bell.

[@tigershoot]

@@TheRetiredtech Surely the main reason for the fire was poor workmanship. There would have been no fire if the electrics hadn't shorted.

[@TheRetiredtech]

@@tigershoot no there would have been a spark sometime They don't yet today know where the spark was from.

[@joevignolor4u949]

@@TheRetiredtech If there was no oxygen in the command module the crew would have died from lack of oxygen. So they had to have oxygen in the command module. The problem was that on the day of the test the spacecraft had been pumped up to almost 20 psi to simulate it being in space. As such everything inside became saturated with oxygen, which made it burn easily. The decision to use pure oxygen in the command module was an engineering trade off. A two gas oxygen/nitrogen system was considered but was rejected because it would have added too much weight to the vehicle. Even after the fire they still used a pure oxygen system but there was air in the cabin prior to launch to lessen the fire risk. Then during launch the air was purged out and replaced with pure oxygen at about 5 psi.

[@joevignolor4u949]

@@TheRetiredtech While the exact location of the spark isn't known the general area of the ignition was determined. You said, "no there would have been a spark sometime". No, there should never have been any arcing or sparking in the wiring anywhere at any time. The fact that there was a spark was attributed to poor design and workmanship. The wire bundles in that area were allowed to be in direct contact with the metal structure of the spacecraft. They had been tightly squeezed in there and the insulation had gotten chafed off. Then one of the damaged wires caused the spark. After the fire the technique used to install the wiring was changed so that the wires were kept away from any solid metal parts that could damage the insulation.

[@jamesroets800]

Mr. Carroll, this video is awesome. I was 13 years old when Apollo 8 orbited the moon. We were visiting relatives then and within two weeks we would set off for the west coast to see my dad off to Vietnam. We were glued to the TV for this flight, and when we saw earth rise I cannot even begin to tell you just how emotional that was. But it wasn't until the Christmas broadcast that this flight cemented itself into my mind - God bless all of you, all of you on the good Earth. There was not a dry eye at my grandparents house when that was said. I can relate to the sometimes Spartan conditions being a military kid, but we did okay. My mother is a rock star - she raised four children in the Cold War days in the '50's and '60's, largely without my dad's help, moved us from coast to coast and house to house, school to school, and never, at least publically, complained. Her veneer cracked during Vietnam when we thought that dad wasn't coming home. He did. I can understand the pressures that Mrs. Borman must have been under. Frank survived.

[@sc1784]

Having grown up during the Apollo missions and being fascinated with what transpired both as it happened and later in life, this was very informative and turns a well-deserved spotlight onto that part of the story that has been largely untold. Nice episode. Well-done Ward.

[@maximilliancunningham6091]

Ward represents what is loved and admired about America, among allies and friends.

[@archerpiperii2690]

Excellent job Ward - thank you for making this! Please keep making interviews like this, you are good at it and the topics deserve to be heard. Phoenix, AZ.

[@sunhawk61]

Outstanding interview Ward. You pull another great show together. Frank and his wife, are just examples of your typical American military man and his wife. On the outside its all glory and glamorous that everyone can see. On the inside, its real life, not fantasy or make believe. No Camelot thats for sure. In years past, the military did not treat personnel or their families well, officer or enlisted, nit that its much better today I am sure. As you said, "if you were supposed to have a wife and family, they would be issued".

[@desertdenizen6428]

This episode was far and away one of the top offerings on You Tube that I have seen since the microprocessor was developed. Thank you!

[@rogerpattube]

Ward you hit the ball out of the park with this truly amazing conversation with these wonderful people on the most fascinating piece of history.

[@dswiger]

Initially thought this would be out of your strike-zone, but you did an excellent job of giving us a thumbnail of the Borman family and allowing the author to expand on & personalize this story. Bravo

[@mpetry912]

this was a good one and you really drew the story out of the authors. Hard to describe the stress and fear suffered by the families of those heroes. They did not have the self awareness and psychological / emotional support available to us today. In the book "Boyd" biography of John Boyd, USAF fighter pilot and father of air to air as we know it today, as well as the OODA loop, the story is his wife and family were in very much the same situation - Completely left behind. great segment, thank you Mooch.

[@leejim3609]

What an interview! Thank you! An legend in the early stage of space exploration and a true hero.

[@timothywalker4563]

Ward you asked the questions, I had heard Frank’s wife had it rough but back then as you would say there wasn’t the mechanisms and support we would have today. Thanks for interviewing the authors of that book. You really pulled that curtain of the unknown, another great interview 😉

[@hayeslewis]

Thank you for sharing. A great reminder about how we all need to balance our personal desires with the need to care for the ones we love.

[@johnwallace4408]

WOW! This is powerful!! Content like this is what makes your channel the BEST on You-tube! PERIOD!!!

[@georgemacdonell2341]

I'm almost 70, from central fla. and grew up with rockets. I agree those were heady days that made you proud to be an American. I do miss those times when we had a can-do attitude.

[@terryyarnall9495]

A wonderful interview and a very touching story. As usual, very riveting. I’ve come to expect the very best from you and your guests.

[@joemartino6976]

Just found a new book for the top of my reading list. Great interview. Thank you!

[@genestern1767]

Always good to hear “the rest pf the story”. Nice job!

[@kennethlewis3870]

This is your best episode!! Just incredible. Absolutely incredible!

[@alantoon5708]

A good friend a mine, a Vietnam Era Naval Aviator, flew for EAL during the Bormann era. COL Bormann probably should have chosen another challenge other than attempting to revive a terminally ill airline. My friend, and other pilots, referred to him as "Martin Bormann" which was more than a bit unfair. Thank you for another great episode, Ward. I look forward to your program on Robin Olds. There are many similarities in his life and Frank Bormann, except that both Robin and his first wife, Ella Raines, had issues with John Barleycorn...

[@nmelkhunter1]

Interesting insight to the sacrifices made to reach the moon. Thank you for sharing.

[@billjamison2877]

Ward, this video is absolutely OUTSTANDING!

[@richardbowles7690]

Excellent and unique view into aspects of "The Greatest Generation" (Borman was on very young end of that era). Mission orientation, laser focus (even though lasers were not yet routine), wives/Moms (sidelined partners) making the family work, alcohol and other "mental aids". Like so many other military brats, we experienced much or all of that. Our parents endured and inspired. Painful reading the book -- its so well written, and much hits close to home. Was fortunate to meet astronauts in elementary school and through my career, including one on Apollo 1. Still have audio tapes I recorded from TV during Apollo missions. Thanks, Mooch, for passing along the stories and advancing the inspiration. Especially appreciate the human side as focus of this video.

[@rossreed9974]

Much appreciate your channel day-by-day, but loved this episode! Big fan of the first 3 gens of Astronauts and the American space program, sad that many of the NASA employed husbands/wives ended in divorce. Frank Borman has always been a favorite. I remember the 11/1967 launch of an unmanned Apollo Saturn V, I lived in Sanford Florida (I was a Navy Brat) and saw the fireball of those huge engines before the earth-ending sound that shook my insides... watching from a Pre-School with my teacher and School Head. Great inside story to an amazing woman and her famous husband, thank you Ward!

[@PeskyUSNA74]

Mooch...This is Pesky USNA '74. I flew P-3s. My family moved to Houston in 1965 when my BSEE father was hired by GE to work on the Apollo program. I was 12 years old and I went to school with the astronauts' kids. Wally Schirra gave me a recommendation to the Naval Academy. I played football with Fred and Ed Borman. Fred is one of my best friends. I talk to him every week or so. Fred was a USMA '74 grad and we would meet at the 50 yard line after every Army/Navy game and go to the victors' parties (Navy beat Army my Plebe and First Class years, so I got into a couple scuffles at the Ben Franklin hotel my Youngster and 2/c years when Army won). I have flown with Col Borman three times...the biggest thrill being when he took me up in his tandem P-51 Mustang named Su Su II. He took me up a day before he was to fly in an airshow in Burnet, TX . Capt Jim Lovell was there and I spent an hour talking with him when Col Borman did some formation flying with an F-16. I have had the privilege to spend a lot of time with the Borman family. Mrs. Borman was lovely. Col Borman was incredibly in love with her. I won't get into all my experiences with the Bormans out of respect for their privacy but I will concur that Col Borman had the ability to ask questions that were laser beams to the answer. No BS in his psyche. Mrs. Borman was open and sincere and would pleasantly converse. And one last thing, if the Borman boys were hooligans, then I must have been one too because Fred and I spent a lot of time hanging out together in high school...and the only wild things I recall were a couple of beers and too many female rejections.

[@vivek27789]

Wow... Fascinating it must have been to grow up with all the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo Astronauts as your neighbours and their kids as your friends and buddies.👍

[@darrellbrown7172]

I worked for Fred when he had his car dealership in my city close to Ft. Bragg, NC. Great guy to work for and the Borman family were the greatest.

[@robertmorey4104]

Awesome discussion. Really enjoy your guests and subjects. I'm a kid of the 60s so getting the story/backstory on a family at the pinnacle of the space race is fascinating. Frank is an exceptional person to turn down Apollo11 to try and help his family. Great story. Thank you.

[@stevefletcher7968]

Thank you for another great video. You nailed it again. Your pursuits are truly treasures.

[@stevefletcher7968]

@Amy Taylor Very well thank you.

[@stevefletcher7968]

@Amy Taylor Northern Idaho

[@stevefletcher7968]

You?

[@stevefletcher7968]

@Amy Taylor Been a very cool and wet spring. Summer will arrive shortly. What brings you to Wards you tube channel?

[@stevefletcher7968]

@Amy Taylor working on my home.

[@ZAR797]

This episode is new to me. It rings a lot of bells. I'm going to look for the book, it sounds good. Thanks Ward.

[@VAhistTeach]

I remember my first time on an airplane I was about 11 or 12, and it was an Eastern Airlines plane. Thanks for sharing this story. We still teach about the importance of the space program, but this is part of the history we told talk about.

[@spqr701]

Ward. Excellent video, as usual. Thanks for posting, I have a cousin who lived near the cape during the "glory-years" of the space program. They got to watch (close-up) most of the launches from Mercury through Apollo. He said that watching a Saturn 5 shot was like living through a severe earthquake, very high on the Richter Scale.........

[@goldcfi7103]

Spectacular interview. Those "Greatest Generation" men and women ARE what America is made of!

[@timmcneil906]

Amazing story Ward, thanks for sharing!

[@1919champ]

I concur with the other commenters. The content of the channel is just getting more and more compelling viewing. Thanks again for the time all this takes out of your life.

[@logan_e]

Thank you Mr. Carroll, I'm a year older than you so I was there too and feel every word you said about that time and how it was so different than today, great story about Frank Borman, great video!

[@wdavidson729]

The week of the Apollo 11 landing, I was in Farragut, Idaho at the 1969 National Boy Scout Jamboree. I remember Frank Borman speaking to us about the same time as the first steps were being taken on the moon by Neil and Buzz. I never saw the actual first steps live but did get to hear an inspiring speech from Frank Borman!

[@thereissomecoolstuff]

Ward that was outstanding. You did your research. They were both amazing. That looked like 1 take stuff. Have them on again please. Very strong Ward.

[@MrJdsenior]

You say you can't conceive of the thunder of the Saturn V. I can. I was at the press location for one of the launches and it was incredible. You could feel it in your chest, you could feel it through the ground. I remember I had expected to just hear a loud constant roar and there was all kinds of popping and cracking going on, which struck me as really weird. I also remember asking how the motor pushed the rocket in space and got a quick and dirty of Newton's second law.. And to really get the point across we watched one from the house, in Pine Hills, on the far side of Orlando. My father, who was an aerospace engineer at Martin, calculated a rough time frame and it was pretty quiet out so we listened and sure enough, you could just barely hear it over the standard noise level in a neighborhood from about fifty miles away. That impressed me even more.

[@olentangy74]

My wife and I lived in Oviedo in the 90's, and we could step into our back yard to watch the shuttle launches, which were about 50 miles away as the crow flies. Even at that distance, night launches illuminated our backyard. I can only imagine what spectacle a Saturn V launch would have been.

[@SBCBears]

That's not conceiving, that's remembering.

[@MrJdsenior]

@@SBCBears Man, you are picky! :-) Yeah, his was conceiving, mine was remembering. Ya got me. Your user name is great BTW. I just watched the last installment of the 3000 series. It just gets better and better.

[@jhmcglynn]

Great story Ward. Like many of your listeners/commenters I also grew up as a SAC BRAT👨‍✈️born in 1947. Dad was a Boomer on a KC-135 retiring in 1962 when I was 15. He was on alert every 3rd week. Our housing at Altus AFB OK was pretty good. We moved to Long Island NY. I got a college internship at Grumman Aerospace in 1967 and worked there for 3 years including about a year on the Lunar Excursion Module. I love it when my kids tell their friends their dad is a rocket scientist :)

[@tinyskustoms]

Great interview about a great man, and family! Thank you, Sir for another great video!

[@simonhellier7281]

Awesome episode. Frank Borman is the right stuff personified. His interviews are always full of humility and candour. No surprise he was the President’s advisor for Apollo 11. Apollo 8 was a superb crew - who wouldn’t want to shake their hands?

[@gwalker3092]

I watch wards channel regularly but came to watch again after hearing of Franks passing. A very interesting video and incredible life for them both. Look forward to reading the book about such amazing people RIP

[@spoondeep]

Wow, very inspiring Ward. Thank you. Shopping for the book now.

[@JPM-NM]

Frank Borman has been a hero of mine all my life. so I really didn't know what to expect given the title of this video. Thank you Ward for an incredible discussion.

[@sandymj3w633]

Great interview sir! My one uncle was a pilot in WW2 & Korea. The other was a marine in WW2. Never once do I remember hearing how my aunts managed. Thank you for opening our eyes to reality of the times. 👏🇺🇲🙏

[@coldwarrior5167]

Thanks for dredging up our sordid past again Ward. lol Sputnik could beep my house from there. Here in Canada we lived every Mercury, Gemini and Apollo launch, and every assassination, so thanks for letting us in on Frank and Susan Borman to bring the story and the truth home. I've followed and appreciated most of your KZbin posts, but ringing the bell sounds like a sneaky lowdown Seal trick. lol

[@jamesftoland]

This was one of your best yet, Ward. Anyone from a military family has to be feeling the hard feels throughout this.

[@horatiobeaker]

I purchased this book after watching Ward’s interview. This book was outstanding. It revealed a side of Frank Borman that he would have never imagined sharing prior to 1980, or perhaps even ten years ago. Susan’s story, along with Frank’s, is remarkable to say the least. A brilliant, driven, focused and determined man in the right place at a critical time. This book is really a love story at many levels. There are moments of tenderness, friendships, unbelievable highs, and of course, tragedies. The Borman’s story spans 70 years, and what they have accomplished together is a genuine American saga of immense accomplishments. Watch Ward’s interview-which is one of his best-and then buy the book, and hold on for the ride of a lifetime.

[@ronaldtartaglia4459]

Borman was always all business.. Look at his eyes when he is conducting the investigation into the Apollo one disaster. Guy was a stoic superhero

[@joevignolor4u949]

After Apollo 1 Frank Borman also had to sit in the hot seat in front of a congressional committee and prevent certain politicians from cancelling the Apollo program altogether. Walter Mondale was probably the biggest protagonist who wanted to pull the plug on Apollo but Frank made such a good case for continuing that Mondale and his group failed to stop it.

[@mindeloman]

Lovell said in an interview that when they were on the return trip from the moon, Duke Sleyton had put in locker in the spacecraft some sort of celebratory spirit in 3 small bottles - like 1 shot each. When they looked at Frank, he wasn't having it. Lovell said that mission commander Borman didn't want open bottles of flammable liquid bring consumed. yeah.....all business.

[@joevignolor4u949]

@@mindeloman Apparently that's a true story. I've heard it before.

[@Nghilifa]

@@joevignolor4u949 Me too. BTW, have you heard the audio clip of their conversation at the moment that they "discovered" earthrise for the first time in lunar orbit (It wasn't on orbit 1 btw) ? It's a great listen. Borman even says "Don't take that, it's not scheduled" when Anders asks Lovell to hand him a magazine of color film.

[@joevignolor4u949]

@@Nghilifa Yes I've heard that audio.

[@paulgush]

Frank Borman, my favorite astronaut. The only one honest enough to say that spaceflight sucks. Crampt, smelly, dangerous, and even pooping is a messy struggle.

[@dahawk8574]

Word is that Charlie Duke told his son Tom that he'd be better off as an F-16 fighter pilot instead of being an astronaut. So Borman isn't the only one who felt this way. What people say in public versus what they say in private are often quite different.

[@dougthomas7852]

Hi Ward, this just popped up on KZbin today. Brings back memories as an Airforce Brat in the 60's. I remember housing at Nellis and Mt. Home about the same as portrayed in the Right Stuff, even though the time frame was early on, maybe late 50's (the location before it was named Edwards AFB)? Housing was awful. The wives of the pilots put up with a lot supporting their husbands career and trying to take care of the family. The furniture and basic pots and pans from base housing supply were the worst. All that said, it was a great experience as a child. Dad took us to many great places around the US and when he was stationed in Germany. He made sure we got to do and see things most kids could only dream about. The hardest time for our family was when Dad went to Vietnam and flew the RF-4C in 1967, I was in the 4th grade. Thank the Lord he came back alive before Tet. His apartment was destroyed during the attack and killed some of the officers he lived with. A few of my classmates in Sumter while he was stationed at Shaw in the early 70's had father's in the Hanoi Hilton. Tough times for these kids. Keep up the great work on the channel. I have learned a lot from you about the history of the military.

[@180mph9]

What an amazing story, during early the Apollo days, my mom worked on the command module at NAA where she met Frank, I was too young to appreciate the incredible accomplishments at NASA. Thank you Liisa.

[@BlackMan614]

What a great interview. I am going to read the book. Such a sad story of Susan Borman. May she RIP.

[@djbside1965]

Great interview. Mooch never disappoints.

[@brianarbenz7206]

This was as fine and informative a look at any astronaut and spouse as I have ever seen. Excellent. I understand Frank and Susan Borman far better than ever. And I grew up a space buff who remembers the Apollo 8 mission in detail. You can never stop learning. Thanks.

[@pensacola07]

Excellent job, this was a fantastic video to watch, absolute great job

[@theonlymadmac4771]

Frank Borman was a childhood hero and a role model for me in the 60ies even in Germany. This story revived that.

[@ianjones4071]

Hi you do great work, I was born in 57 and grew up loving the space race ,here in Australia we got small amounts of information and TV coverage, I skiped school the day man walked on the moon, thank you for bringing the truth out in your videos,ps have a real soft spot in my heart for saber jets cheers mate

[@thomasmoore8142]

Thanks Ward, truly Amazing production and I love Liisa and Michael so their book must be fantastic.

[@depilot2035]

Now this is the content I've been looking for

[@darrellbrown7172]

Great Video, I met Frank in the 90s when I worked for his son Fred who had owned a car dealership in my city close to Ft. Bragg , NC. Frank was a great guy, easy to talk to once you knew him. Once I got to know him well he found out how much I was into history especially ww2 since my grandfather was a ww2 vet and still living at that time. I wanted to learn everything I could from that generation and the ones who were pioneers and keep them going through the years to come.

[@thomasmitchell6921]

Mr Carroll, your framing of this story has been vital to we viewers

[@Sam62254]

Excellent! Really great stuff, Ward.

[@MrEnvirocat]

Really, really good stuff. Thanks Ward for putting this together. I remember in Jr High watching several moon landings in school. Like you said, class stopped and they wheeled in a TV and we watched men walking on the Moon doing their mission. My parents saw me and my brother watching Star Trek episodes and told us that we would see this in our lifetimes. Yeah, I'm 60 now. Not so much.

[@AndyTheGabbyCabby]

wow im a big follower of the Apollo era missions and I never knew any of this. We focus so much on the fame of the crews you tend to forget the impact all this has on the families.

[@BlueRoom275]

We talk about profiles in courage but I don’t that think anyone truly understands the courage that the early astronauts and their families had to have. Bravo Zulu!

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

I can tell you as a child growing up as a military brat in the early 60's, it was an adventure of up and downs. I saw many historical places in Europe. MY parents loved to camp. We traveled every year for four summers to the following countries. Spain, France, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria, Italy, Monaco, and The Vatican. We traveled on weekends, I love figure skating as a consequence, There were family get togethers with all the troops and and the families, and of course Armed Forces Day. I love a hunk of fresh out of the oven bread with a ridiculous amount of butter melting on it. These were fun and wonderful memories. The bad memories. My Dad was constantly TDY. Three out of four weeks he would be gone all over NATO. As an ordinance expert he would inspect all the depots including the nuclear weapons. Then there was the Kennedy assignation, the bases in Europe went to full alert. Complete lock down. All the troops were armed and sent to their preplanned positions for war. Frustrated moms and dads fighting. A neighbor threw his wife through a window. We were on the second floor. Some of the base housing would be considered sub-standard.. The last base quarters we had, were around WWI. Here is an anecdote, Fall came, our quarters were pretty damn cold. We had no heat. It wasn't broken, there was one system for what would be a row of town houses. They wouldn't turn on the heat until a specific calendar day dictated by the Pentagon. What they decided was the start on winter. Living on base was highly regulated. Things could and couldn't do. Back then the behavior of family and your personal lives could impact the service member's career, up to and including separation from service. Why am I laying this all out here? What has it got to do with the video? To point out the difficulties that confronted all military families. The Astronauts were confronted with some extremes but so were regular service men. I am not try to lessen their story, but to expand on it. If I could go back in time and make a choice, I wouldn't change a thing. You have to take the good with the bad. Not just pick out the cherries, You live, you learn, you adapt. That is what life is all about.

[@marbleman52]

John Rodrigues...I do not think that you were trying to lessen their story at all; you were just connecting the general mindset of the military towards all military families whether they were/are officers or enlisted. I think you did an excellent job. I was enlisted, single, and in Navy aviation n 71-75, so I cannot speak from personal experience about the mindset of the Navy towards enlisted married guys & gals, but a few of my squadron friends were married. One of the guys and his wife ( were were all about 20 yrs. old ), lived off base ( N.A.S., Norfolk, Va.) in an apartment. It was just an average apt., not new at all, but not terrible either, so I guess that was good for them. I do not remember if there was any kind of support system there on base for the wives. But...some of our squadron was due to go back to N.A.S., Miramar, Cali. for another 10 days of exercises. This guy's wife was due to give birth to their first child at the same time. He asked, pleaded, begged the C.O. ( I'm assuming...not sure now...way too many years...! ), to let him stay and be with his wife for the birth of their first child. He was refused. I do remember, however, that he was very upset and talked about going AWOL. But he didn't go AWOL and was at Miramar when his child was born. This guy was just an ordinary enlisted guy whose job was hydraulics, and there were other guys in the squadron who could have taken his place. I have remembered that incident to this day. I did know that during the Apollo years and most likely the earlier programs as well, that the pilots/engineers, like Borman, worked 80-100 hours a week ( probably a low number...! ), 7 days a week, and were very seldom home. The divorce rate was as high as the Moon. But that is what it took to get all the many millions of details worked out.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

@@marbleman52 believe it or not I have posted anecdotes from my life or things that my dad told me over the years about combat in Europe. And I have had some really stupid negative feedback on it. That's why I put the disclaimer at the end. I remember in the '70s a lot of enlisted personnel that were married, actually we're on food stamps. That enraged me as a teenager. When the big pay boost came through during the beginning of the Reagan administration the newspapers, magazines were quick to point out the negatives of giving a raise to the military. I remember one movie star in particular coming out against it I can't think of her name but she was in Laverne and Shirley, the brunette. She was making how much per episode? And she's complaining! This was when the Navy was having trouble keeping their senior Chiefs that were nuclear trained. My dad and I had a pretty strong conversation regarding it. And he said they should stay in out of patriotism. I asked my dad how long would you have stayed in the military if you had to have your family on food stamps, your kids are going to school with worn out clothes and shoes with holes in them, you're living in a dump because you can't afford better and your car is on its last legs. And there's this job out there that's going to pay you $75,000 a year to work a Monday through Friday or 24/7 40 hour week, no TDY, no at Sea duty. Which would you choose? And he admitted he would have got out. It was terrible from the next administration to the beginning of the Reagan administration the military had virtually received no pay increases. You got all these fat cats in Congress getting all these raises and other special treatment. Screw them. I probably am more pro-military than most people. I think they should be compensated like they would be a normal industry. Can you imagine what the captain of a nuclear carrier would get paid based on hay points? I'm a firm believer in giving the military the best equipment that money can buy. I'm also a firm believer in the idea that no American should have to die for their country but they should make sure the other SOB dies for theirs. I have the utmost love and respect for my country and those that protect her.

[@marbleman52]

@@JohnRodriguesPhotographer That was interesting, thanks for sharing it. Back in 1972 we had the actress, Jane Fonda, daughter of the great actor, Henry Fonda, go to North Viet Nam and was on 10 radio shows while there, speaking against the U.S. being over there. She was given the name "Hanoi Jane" and the became hated by the U.S. military. That branded her for the rest of her career. I remember how the Viet Nam vets were treated after they came home: cursed at, spit upon, assaulted, etc. It was terrible. I think that years later when we went to war in the Mid-East against Osama and then Afghanistan and the other wars, that the collective guilt of hating the returning Viet Nam vets resulted in going the other direction to try and seek forgiveness by starting the saying " Thank you for your service". Sometimes, I think it get a bit too mushy and all that, but it's better than being spit upon. And I love what General George Patton said: “No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country." I know that sometimes...sometimes...this country has to go to war. But when we do, I think that all of the politicians who cry for war MUST send their own children and other military age family members first, and put them in the front lines and very possibly get killed or possible maimed for life. Then...then...we will see just how hungry for war these politicians and other so-called leaders are for war. Make them suffer first. If we must fight...fight to win...and then get the Hell out...!!

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

@@marbleman52 too many stupid rules of engagement. I'm not saying go out there and blow up the whole damn country but give him a base mission destroy Saddam Hussein's military. Don't tell him how to do it just go do it. Believe it or not we've got officers that'll go out there and destroy that military. Yeah just give him the damn mission and they'll finish it. It's like during Vietnam they had zones of check fire around villages I forget the exact distances. But like the furthest check fire zone you could shoot if you're fired upon, you didn't have to identify the person firing. The second one you had to identify the target before you could shoot at it that's when you got a little closer to the village. And then the third one is like a guy could be standing there with an AK and he's obviously VC or NVA but you can't shoot at them because he hasn't shot you yet. Excuse me all the hell and back while I get in trouble for breaking the rules. The thing that annoys me is the people make these stupid ass rules you're not the ones out there swinging in the breeze getting shot at. You know if if they want to give a rule of engagement to the military making something real simple use your best judgment to avoid collateral dead damage. That's all they got to tell the military. Yeah I understand we don't want to go knocking down every mosque in them Islamic country. I don't want us knocking down every Church in a Christian country. I could go on but the list would be endless. But if you're taking fire from that mosque level it. It's as simple if they want to defile the mosque to begin with, then we get to blasted with every piece of explosive artillery rocketry bombs whatever just turn it into a smoking hole in the ground. Don't want your mosque shut to pieces and blown up, real simple don't shoot at us from one.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

@@marbleman52 as for Hanoi Jane I stopped watching anything with Jane Fonda about 1968. It's been what 54 years? Still haven't watched anything.

[@waynefletcher9884]

Wow, WOW! What an amazing love story! You did it again Mooch, you’re the best! Please give your father a handshake, Orraaah and Semper Fi from this Marine!

[@stevecam724]

Thanks for bringing this story to our attention Ward, I'm definitely getting that book 😎😎

[@arthurpearson3407]

Another outstanding program,Mooch😉. I experienced the feeling that was pervasive in 1957 after the Soviets launched Sputnik that they were way ahead in space and with them achieving many first, it was very scary. Our first attempts ending in disaster didn’t help give us hope of catching up. Mercury made strides in methodically getting the US back in the game, Gemini accelerated our progress towards the ultimate stated goal with Apollo. These astronauts were folk heroes to us. The wives as we learned later dealt with these unbelievable stresses. We knew how some of them had problems and had real difficulty dealing with the factors of the program, but it appears to have been more prevalent. I was in Vietnam on Christmas 1968 and listened to the Apollo 8 broadcast on Armed Forces Radio and was on R&R in Sydney on July 20, 1969 when Apollo 11 landed on the Moon. In the ensuing years I’ve had the privilege of meeting and working with many NASA astronauts including John Young who epitomized the best of this country.

[@dks13827]

Ward thank you. I modelled my life after Frank, Neil, Jim, Buzz, and all the others. It has been very good, indeed.

[@AggiePhil]

Wow, this was an incredible interview!

[@d3202s]

Your channel and Rick Beatos' are the best! Great content. How are you doing on DCS?

[@WardCarroll]

Fam flights in progress.

[@michellowe8627]

For a better timeline, Roe took place in January 1973. Armstrong & Aldrin walked on the moon in July 1969. Borman, Lovell, and Anders orbited the moon in Apollo 8 Christmas of 1968. One retrospective I saw described the assassinations of King, Kennedy, the Tet offensive in Vietnam: declared that Apollo 8 saved 1968.

[@larrysmith6797]

@@hatdrummer In Ward's video about the movie Final Countdown, Ward refers to Charles Durning as a 'fat actor.' During was an US Army veteran, landed on Omaha Beach in the first wave on D Day, was wounded by a German anti-personnel mine and spent six months in the hospital, participated in the Battle of the Bulge. He earned the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts. All Ward said was Durning was a "fat actor" who used a stuntman to be hoisted via sling into a hovering helicopter. Professional, indeed! Ward is LESS than what he seems to be.

[@dahawk8574]

Recap... Charles Durning lost the Battle of the Bulge.

[@MrFlysafely]

I've watched all your episodes and this was the best. I never knew this about the Bormans. Thank you so much. 🤓

[@michaelmartinez1345]

What a great episode... I have always admired the test pilots and astronauts who help to find what our capabilities were, and what needed to be improved... But their wives and families were also in their minds as well... The wives were so courageous, to be able to cope with that kind of stress... As Michael and Ward stated on this interview, these programs and the Viet Nam war involved the efforts of so many people to be able to cope with extreme stress. insane time schedules, and dangerous situations...Liisa , was very good at pointing out and explaining how the wives, families and friends dealt with these intense situations.... Thank You for presenting this feature Mr. Ward...

[@michaelmartinez1345]

@Amy Taylor Hello Amy Taylor... I'm trying to think what you were involved with programs like these... Have a nice day , and God bless You too...

[@michaelmartinez1345]

@Amy Taylor I'm from a background of varied skills and interests associated with equipment and machinery... From various locations in the U.S. , that have people involved with various types of equipment... How about You? Where are You from?

[@michaelmartinez1345]

@Amy Taylor Hello Amy, I'm originally from California. Now I live in Arizona... The weather here in Tucson : HOT & dry. Clear sky. How about Your weather in Pennsylvania? BTW, A friend lives in West Virginia.... I worked for a company that was originally from Pennsylvania.

[@michaelmartinez1345]

@Amy Taylor Hello Amy, I am very busy lately with the job and various projects that need to be accomplished... Last night , I was very tired after I got home from work... I rained here in Tucson. Fantastic lightning ⚡ and extreme thunder ⛈️. My cat 😺 was curled-up close to me last night... Did it rain 🌧️ where you are at lately? You mentioned there was a chance of it.

[@ds2112]

BZ Mooch, awesome interview. When I was 10 I took my first flight on an Eastern Air Lines DC9-10 in 1978, and sent EAL a letter, I still remember getting a card from Col Borman thanking me for the letter, I framed that card. Later that year my dad painted my bedroom in EAL colors, with the EAL Eagle over my bed. When I was in 14 I was in FL (having flown EAL the day before) for the first Shuttle launch, and the intense roar where I was north of Orlando blew me away; can't imagine being in the visitor center. I wanted to work for only two airlines, PAA (Pan Am) because they went around the world, or EAL as I had my first flight with them. I'm 54 now, and in dispatch standards and training for a worldwide all-cargo airline; I wonder what that 10 year old having just flown on an EAL baby 9 would think... once again, BZ!!

[@johnscherrer9234]

I consider it a privilege that I lived in the NASA area outside of Houston during the Apollo program. My dad worked for the Apollo Support Group of General Electric. Most of the fathers of my high school friends worked for NASA or a sub-contractor. Their accomplishments were remarkable, many of which we didn’t become aware of until years later. There wasn’t a better place to live at that time in US history as far as I was concerned. Three of us from my high school class went to Annapolis and one to West Point (Fred, Frank’s son). There were always 2 or 3 from our high school that went to one of the service academies at that time. I’m definitely buying the book. Thanks for conducting this interview.

[@iyn1911]

Thank Ward for the video. I grew up watching the Apollo program in school. Great to learn more about history. So I need to give credit to your wife and thank her for your you tube channel.

[@halspencer6613]

A great post! Thanks for this inspiring story.

[@terryboyer1342]

Frank Borman was one of my heroes growing up. I had no idea of the back story. Sounds like Susan was a tremendous woman. Thanks for bringing this to light Ward.

[@Pricklyhedgehog72]

It's such an amazing era of American history, where it seems almost no expense was spared forging speed records, rocket technology, and finally putting people on the moon. Some of the greats of the post war era, and of course the phenomenal women who held things together, many not receiving appropriate accolades until decades later. Thanks Ward.

[@togowack]

They were really just testing stuff that had been found here before the era of colonization. deliberately destroyed most of it during a period of time we are told was experimental in our history.

[@Pricklyhedgehog72]

@@togowack I'm not sure if rocket technology was part of the colonization period, but certainly the acquisition of raw materials and land were, at great cost to Native Americans. It's a portion of the past it seems we struggle to acknowledge, among other colonial sins.

[@togowack]

@@Pricklyhedgehog72 Rocket technology was a part of the period before colonization, eventually people are going to dig underneath our cities and find technology we didn't know existed. Check the term 'mud flood' buildings. The cities infrastructure electrical water systems we use in America are thousands of years old. The native Americans had their history re written by the same people that re wrote ours, we have no idea who they are where they came from.