The History and Future of Transit in Leeds | Clarified

[@haj8579]

Visiting there or not, knowing that there is a major city without proper transport system for its size is always painful. I hope the people in Leeds will get a better system.

[@Thoroughfare]

This has been some progress but nothing more than planning at this stage unfortunately.

[@electro_sykes]

had an idea for a light rail line from Roundhay to Shipley. It would run on roads in the Leeds city centre, along Bridggate from Roundhay, then would go through the undercroft of Leeds station (inspired by Manchester Piccadilly), then would use an abandoned viaduct through Holbeck than convert the existing line to Bradford and add more stations and then in Bradford it would then connect the two Bradford stations and convert that spur to Shipley station (which would become an interchange).

[@tylertronthedestroyer4379]

Probably The Biggest Problem in Urban UK, Leeds-Bradford is currently (with a population of 1 million) is the biggest urban area in Europe without a metro or Tram line, meanwhile Charlois in Belgium with a population of 400,000 (About the same as Edinburgh) has 4 Metro Lines, and Ludwigshafen with a population of 127,000 has 10 Tram Lines

[@clivebroadhead4381]

How has the delay in West Yorkshire getting a mass transit deprived the region of government funds over the last 30 years compared with other regions, e.g., Greater Manchester?

[@clivebroadhead4381]

While the Government has been talking about a mass transit system, other countries have built a huge underground system, e.g., Hong Kong MTR.

[@JohnFromAccounting]

My granddad is from Leeds and we now live in Melbourne. Trams are definitely the way. The state of Leeds is shameful and my family will not be returning.

[@electro_sykes]

My dad grew up in Leeds and left as soon as he was an adult and financially independent

[@clivebroadhead4381]

Has West Yorkshire got the financial support of government and seconded experts from Transport from London to implement a mass transit system?

[@johnland7318]

Just watched both of your Leeds trams videos. There are enough dual carriageway roads in the arterial road system of Leeds that HAD trams using the central strip that miles of track could be installed at the expense of a few trees, very quickly. Joined to on-road sections. The guided bus way!!!!! On the A64 being ready for converting today..!!! Your comment about planning and planning against any action is the truth. The local authority could have built your start line, years ago north to south with the £70 million spent on all the time wasting 'planning'.

[@whome5810]

How do most people get around in Leeds? Does everybody just drive, if so what is traffic and parking generally like? I am considering moving from London to Leeds, I am used to using the tube on a daily basis, but I do have a car. Cheers! :)

[@md-up6ql]

I used to live in Leeds, there is some traffic but most people drive or use buses to get around, I would recommend driving more though

[@adrianwong8093]

I moved to Leeds from Hong Kong where is an Asian city famous for good public transports. For family travel, we usually travel by driving, but if I need to go out by myself, I would choose to take the bus or walk since I am still away from my driving test :). I believe you may need some time to get used to the unconvience of the public transport in Leeds like my first month in Leeds when we didn't have a car yet.

[@whome5810]

@@adrianwong8093 Great thanks very much! :)

[@stephenhodgson3506]

A lot depends on where you choose to work and live in Leeds. Some areas are well served by rail, others have guided buses, some will have normal buses, some are well covered if you want to cycle while others it would have to be by car. There are a number of business parks around the city and if you work there then commuting by car is the best option as they often have free parking. As I said without knowing where you will live and work it is difficult to give an accurate answer.

[@stephenhodgson3506]

You missed one very, very important fact out. A fact which the guy who helped design Nottingham's mass transit system pointed out. That fact? the Germans did rather a nice job of clearing much of the housing and factories required to allow the building of mass transit systems in Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Nottingham, Newcastle and others. But by and large Leeds was spared. In the only major raid on Leeds 25 tons of bombs were dropped compare that to the 231 tons dropped on Glasgow and 83 tons dropped on Sheffield the same night. Most industrial cities had multiple large raids Leeds got the one. So Leeds emerged from the war largely unscathed with many of the narrow streets unsuitable for mass transit systems intact. It did emerge after the war that a number of people of German origin who had lived in Leeds pre war who returned to Germany were involved in the planning of German air raids and didn't want to damage the interests they left behind. Through them Goring had identified Temple Newsam House as a building he would commandeer for himself when the Germans had defeated Britain.

[@Thoroughfare]

Thanks for your insight I'll take this into account when talking about transit in Leeds!

[@stephenhodgson3506]

@maximusg88 they had trams in Leeds from 1891 but they only ever ran on nine lines. They were also built when most of the suburbs didn't exist and were there as a quick access to outlying areas. The trams fell into disuse because they were cold and slow compared to new forms of transport that had become available. Is there really a need for trams that just serve the outskirts? People come from the outskirts into the centre. The number 9 bus service has always been limited because there are just not enough passengers to warrant a more frequent service.

[@stephenhodgson3506]

@maximusg88 The roads that have the central strips are the same roads that had the nine tram lines. However those on York Road and Selby Road have now been replaced with guided buses which are kept away from the main traffic. The plan is for the same to be done on the other routes as well but local residents in some cases have raised objections because they don't want to lose those grass areas. Leeds like everywhere else in the country has a problem with a shortage of bus drivers so they can't increase the frequency because they don't have the drivers to do so. That is also why there are so many cancellations but the bus companies won't be honest about it because they fear losing their routes because they can't provide what they promised. Apparently they also have a problem getting mechanics to keep the buses running. They can't recruit new drivers because people don't want to work unsocial hours and have to face abuse from some of the travelling public. Some drivers have left because they can now get paid better driving HGV's and while they still have unsocial hours they get more money and don't have to face the abuse. There is also the problem that a number went home after Brexit because they were no longer made to feel welcome.

[@stephenhodgson3506]

@maximusg88 Agree with on the privatisation. When buses were in council hands the more profitable lines would subsidise the loss makers as they only had to break even. which meant the could pay more and the drivers had a sense of loyalty to the job. The drivers are separate now and do you think been in a cab would stop some from abusing them also who would collect the fares? Every city and town in the country has the same problems with driver shortages, it's not just Leeds. I'm of the opinion that the bus companies should have to pay a fine for every service that gets cancelled maybe the cost of a full bus and the fares that would be paid. Also I think that all the managers and executives of the bus companies should have to travel by bus to their work so they can experience what their customers have to face. They don't have to be identifiable but just have to use the same service they offer to others. I'm sure a few late to work or home after they have had to stand out in the cold and rain might get them to improve their services. Not sure what the point of having a tramline on a bus lane would be as they still have to stop and what happens if one breaks down you can't tow them away like a bus. We all know the problems the trains have with buckling lines in the Summer and leaves in the Autumn. So what happens if you take your car and you can't find a parking space? how long do you spend driving round to find a spot and having to pay twice what it would cost you on the bus?

[@stephenhodgson3506]

@maximusg88 But the problem is unless you live close to that metro like system the same problems still exist. You have to get to the system before you can use it, that means buses, cars, bike or walk. If you use a car then you need somewhere to park. So people not near the system will revert to what was there before. Sheffield has trams but they still have major traffic and bus problems and are trying to get control of the buses back in the hands of the council. It's a little like when they closed the rail lines under the Beeching plan. His use of Pareto's was flawed from the start. He seemed to forget that people still had to get to the profitable lines and in many cases it was easier to do your whole journey by car than trying to get to a mainline station. So we finished up with no decent rail system that still lost money because it lost the very passengers that made the main lines profitable because they simply couldn't get to the trains. The guided bus lanes work because the buses are separated from the rest of the traffic but sadly you can't put them everywhere. We need to put buses back into the hands of councils so they can give people what they need and want without having to worry about satisfying shareholders. All they need to do is hold the private companies to what they promised when they got their contracts. If they fail then they lose their contracts without compensation because they will have failed to deliver what they signed up for. If they go bust as a result that is a risk you take and have to accept when you are a private company. They can do the same, withdraw the subsidies if the rail companies fail to deliver on their contracts. Let them go bust and buy up what's left from the administrators.

[@bonbon19977]

I am thinking whether it was wrong for Leeds to get the old double deck tram retired. As I see Hong Kong, a bigger population city, is still using the double deck tram, the advantage is the station can be shorter and simple. The construction, operation and maintenance cost can be lower. In Hong Kong, the tram company makes the tram fee as low as 30p a ride because they can create other income from the advertisement on the tram, tourist tram, tram rent out for wedding event. As long as the trams do not go underground, a change from double deck to single deck is meaningless. They are just running same like double deck bus, a supplement of bus in the busy route and area.😂😂😂

[@bonbon19977]

No need to make a station platform with ticket machine. Just pay at the machine in the tram, like pay at the machine in the bus. Well, by one exit at double deck tram you cannot have the tram ride without pay, just like the supertram in other cities, the financial blackhole.😢 Save construction work influence to people nearby, save money and time. Financially balanced achievable.

[@Thoroughfare]

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[@Thoroughfare]

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[@tylertronthedestroyer4379]

@@Thoroughfare Glasgow Metro plans, a new tram line from Glasgow Central Station to Glasgow Airport, basically an extension of the subway

[@yorkshiredreamer443]

Tram idea needs pushing masivly

[@AndrewOldfield]

When they put the Supertram in sheffield and manchester they just did it three times in the 90's and 2000's they had big plans for leeds the nearest we got to the supertramin leeds was big posts in the ground from middleton through belle isle to hunslet then a new costing review hoo haa its too expensive scraped lets build 5miles of cycle paths and tell the peasants on yer bike the new plan will be announced with great fanfare all the council and transport shinney arses blowing sunshine up their own arses then once its £2.50 over budget scraped again

[@waynemeffinaudits8715]

It'll never happen