The "Holy Grail" of Bourbon Battles a Readily Available Shelfer | Calumet 16 vs Pappy Van Winkle 23

[@larrymoffitt2386]

Another big difference: C16 can actually be found by barefoot humans walking into a random store; Pappy 23 cannot ever.

[@BenGG85]

Unless it’s part of a store owner’s museum display for sale for about 6k. 😂😂

[@JaredSutter]

That distinction is noted in the title of the video

[@brianfrydl2741]

No shoes. No service.😅😅😅

[@tjeffers99]

Got a bottle of Calumet 16 today for my “starting a new job Monday” cracking it tonight…can’t wait

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Cheers and congrats on the new job!

[@ajbucher9440]

I always taste something different on calumet 16. Sometimes I get a tone of oak, sometimes vanilla bomb, sometimes fruity, and I’ve also tasted the banana/coffee/baking flavors. Very interesting

[@CPGumby]

Thanks for helping to fight the FOMO and reminding us all that older and more expensive clearly does not mean better.

[@WhiskyForBeginners]

5:55 When I was a kid new tennies had a very distinct rubber smell. I bet I know the note you're getting, though I might not get it. 🙂 I wonder whether today's highly specialized shoes, which look so different from the tennis shoes we had back in the 60s, smell the same brand new...

[@Lawnshrooms]

Also, love what y’all do in these videos. Wouldn’t change a thing!

[@Joe-ub5rs]

I love your format of the double blinds. But to see these bottles in a double blind, not to mention head to head is simply the best example why Blinds are needed! I have a bottle of Calumet 14, 15 & 16 at this time when they run out I won't be replacing them. I have tried Pappy 23 and unless I can get one MSRP to trade, I won't be buying it. Thanks for the video!

[@RicCrouch]

Would be curious how you would compare that release of Calumet 16 to this year's release. Personally, i REALLY like this year's C16!

[@jimidrammer4187]

I've had all of the Pappy's except the 23yo before they were crazy prices. Good: yes. Worth the hype: hell no! BUT I was paying $45 for the 15yo and $99 for the 20yo so...good times!

[@chrishughes9202]

Love the work and awareness that you are doing for mental healthcare.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Thanks Chris. It’s our honor and we’re just happy to be able to use the platform we have to help. It’s such an important cause.

[@MrLhill1222]

Calumet is my favorite pour all time. Never had pappy any year yet

[@terrencemcdermott5840]

That’s interesting. I have never had Pappy 23, but I own Cal16 and mine comes across with more caramel than hard candy. I also get. Decent amount of oak on it. But I’m going to have to blind it now!

[@chrisbfd]

I've been nervous about opening my C16. Can't wait to get home and try it!!

[@markwood2452]

Calumet 16 is one of my all time favorite pours. I’ve had 2 bottles of it and I think they happened to be a blend of a few excellent barrels.

[@umami0247]

And that’s why I don’t go after the pricey stuff the fact a bottle could be off for that kinda money is something I’m not willing to explore. I am happy with my 25-90 dollar range and I can walk into my local stores and get them. Great review as always. Enjoy!!

[@00Accord4cyl]

Just bought a Calumet 16 after moving to a new state. I had the 15 at a bar and enjoyed it so decided to give the 16 a shot.

[@Scott-co4dq]

Thia post prompted me to revisit my bottle of C16. Even though it was not a "spectacular" pour it's surprising decent. Well aged and cherry fruit. It's actually quite enjoyable and I'm glad I have this bottle.

[@BeedeeEx]

This is the first video of yours that I've seen. But I loved it. Really loved the blind tasting and honesty you both had. I've never had Pappy...any variety of it, because it's usually $2-3K secondary and I've not lucky enough win raffle or anything. But this makes me feel a bit better. Like I"m not missing out. Appreciate the video! Keep up the great work. Looking forward to the next.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Thanks so much for tuning in! We definitely focus on honest blind reactions and helpful, informative, and hopefully fun content over maximizing clicks and we're always happy to hear when folks appreciate what we do. Cheers and thanks for watching!

[@tomfeie2733]

Calumet 16, I get tobacco and leather as well as muted cherries. I've bought 2 so far. Just cracked 2nd bottle 3 days ago... Cheers

[@galloway.daniel]

Calumet 15 single rack black and 12 single rack black are my two favs from Calumet. 16 is sneaking up that list the more I have had it.

[@djd2819]

Very helpful. Just stumbled across the channel. Subscribed. 👍

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Thanks for joining in! Cheers!

[@johnringenberger7338]

Another nice episode!

[@vivadsanchez]

That was cool. Thanks for the honesty

[@kurtludington5986]

Great pairing for a head to head blind! I haven’t been a huge fan of any Pappy I have tasted. The 15 yr would be my choice. Fantastic job!

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Thanks so much Kurt! Definitely lucky to get to do this head-to-head. Cheers!

[@GarySmythe]

Calumet 16 is really good while chewing on peppered jerky.

[@ctromanus]

Do you cleanse your palate between tastings? In your video you went right from the first glass to the second.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

When we take the break in the middle we do, and then we start with the second glass. Often times we find little difference, but in other tastings one or both pours can change dramatically. Cleansing your palate can be just as bad as not though, as sipping water can have a sort of dilution effect on the next thing you sip. Basically we ascribe to “find a method that works for you and stick to it.”

[@jacoleroux800]

do you guys have a "ritual" before doing the blinds or tasting whiskey? cleansing the palet and letting the whiskey breath? and does it really make a difference?

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Answering this in an upcoming Q&A! Thanks for the question!

[@dieterlang2176]

It would be interesting to see if you put a couple drops of water into the blinds after your initial rating if the nose and palate change for you and possibly change your rating .

[@stuffandwhiskey]

We hear ya. Over the years of trying just that, we’ve decided that it’s more than we care to bother with. In all our experiences in adding water, a solid 8 out of 10 times we prefer the pour without water more than with, and the other times it’s not better or worse but “just different.” We got tired of wasting good whiskey by adding water and liking it a lot less. The rare exception is when a pour comes across as overly hot, sharp, and/or ethanol forward. Then we’ll add water a little at a time in an attempt to open it up (which sometimes works). In our 300 bottles we own, there are just 3 we can think of off the top of our heads that we prefer water in (one cask strength Scotch, two barrel proof single barrel bourbons).

[@nateduncan9182]

Calmuet 16 can vary batch to batch. I crushed the last bottle I had so much sweet oak it was glorious.

[@DavidRomero-vj4ld]

I've had pappy 10 yr when it was 90 proof in 2004 when you could buy it for $30. I've also had Lot B 15 yr for $55. The Pappa 10 yr that was 107 proof wasn't worth it. They were good back then & are still good, but there definitely not worth allocated prices of thousands of dollars when you have Holiday Red Wheat, Weller 12 & Calamut 16.

[@kermitpurcell6432]

I'm all for the skittles! C16 is definitely my go to for an easy drinking sweet bourbon. It's also great to give a sample to new bourbon enthusiasts. Being that, like you said, drinks underproofed with tons of flavor.

[@itswhiskeytime8538]

Was there a recent video/Live you all showed a small distillery in the middle of the video? I wanted to go back and watch it but can not find the title. Liked the blind today!

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Hard Truth maybe?

[@bryanc8275]

Just bought c16 the other day but haven't opened it yet.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Which batch number? We should’ve mentioned that in the video. Ours is a W4005.09.

[@bryanc8275]

@@stuffandwhiskey w4007.09

[@jonpoetzl126]

Josh what would you move on to afterwords? Surprised Erin didn't pick up on the wheater. Age? Enjoyed the review. Thanks for the content.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Great question. When I reach for Calumet 16 it’s always for a single pour and then I’m on to some kind of single barrel with a bit more darkness and caramel afterwards. Usually Nashville Barrel Company or ECBP.

[@jmiester3]

I like Calumet 16. Only had opportunity to try P15 once. What would u say if u compared them 2?

[@stuffandwhiskey]

We’re fans of Pappy 15 and would suspect that it would win, but the good batches of Calumet would certainly put up a fight.

[@keithrezendes6913]

Hmm, might stick to knob creeks and McKenna BiB

[@ericdesmarais589]

I put a 2017 Pappy 15 against Calumet 16 in a blind thinking it would be close. Was surprised that the pappy beat it by a lot

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Pappy 15 makes a lot of sense as the proof would help a ton. There are some really flat batches of Calumet out there too (W4006.09 in particular).

[@ericdesmarais589]

@@stuffandwhiskey it was W4005.09 haven’t gotten into differences in batches but generally enjoy aged Barton

[@Down3Cats]

No date sub? Nice 👍

[@Down3Cats]

And beautiful date just

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Great eye Kevin! Circa 2008 on the 14060M and circa 1983 on the 16013.

[@jacobsmithaz]

I came here for the review and ended up looking for this comment as well lol. Nice pieces.

[@89sooner]

Had to go back to my closet to dig out the sample bottle of the last of my (gettable) Calumet 16. I firmly plan to never know what what Pappy tastes like I still get oaky over sweet on the Calumet. #proofdar

[@jeffreyjennings1640]

Most videos with Pappy 23 don't do that pour any favors. I've seen a few where the reviewers prefer Pappy 15. I had an opportunity to buy Calumet 16 last November for $160, I passed it over for Knob Creek 12 year for $70 (which, like a chump, I haven't opened yet). At this point, there's a 99.63% chance I wouldn't buy Pappy at MSRP if I found it. The reviews don't back up the hype. Cin cin.

[@KennethRathburn]

8:00 $150, "not great, not terrible" per Chernobyl.

[@leeknowlton7303]

When I get a hankering for a sweet "candy" whiskey, I reach for the $40 Jameson Black Barrel. Tastes like smarties and saves a ton of money.

[@davidlittle6621]

Never had a Pappy Van Winkle, but would love to have a 15 year.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Pappy 15 is definitely the best of the bunch and we’d love to have one as well!

[@MrRockingRilo]

Guys. Love your reviews but MSRP is useless when assessing upper tier pours.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

That’s why we assess everything blind first. Gets right down to the nitty gritty of what’s in the glass. Cheers and thanks for watching!

[@mikezupancic2182]

Calumet 16 is some good stuff, but definitely has very powerful flavors compared to younger bourbon.

[@croaker4747]

I love Calumet 16. I’ve probably gone through 5 bottles of it. Plus, good luck getting that Pappy for $300 even if you can find it.

[@robertsmithUH60driver]

C16 for, because I can't afford PVW.😢

[@IzzosPlace]

It’s really funny I just sampled the calumet 16 today. What an interesting blind! Thanks.

[@heatherharrison264]

Bourbon older than 12 years or so is iffy, but it can be interesting. I have a feeling that I would prefer the Pappy 23 on this one because I like some funk, but I'm not inclined to seek it out or pay an exorbitant amount of money to try it. Calumet 16 isn't too difficult to find and is priced similarly to Scotch of comparable age (so I consider it fair), and I have considered going for it, but I'm a bit wary of buying bourbon older than 12 years blind. Judging from the review here, it sounds like it has flavors that I would like, but I don't always want an overwhelming sense of sweetness in bourbon unless there is some dry oak or some grainy/earthy funk to balance it out. If one of the local bars gets Calumet 16, I'll definitely try it. Some of the bars have Pappy 23, but it costs too much.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Great comment Heather, and we wanted to comment and highlight the parallel in price between 15-16 year bourbon and Scotch. Never made that connection before but you’re spot on!

[@Cubscomments]

Pappy just simply cannot be listed as 300😂😂😂

[@brorjace1980]

Haha. “$300”

[@OGbrick420]

if pappy 23 is the 'holy grail', what is WLW?

[@stuffandwhiskey]

The educated choice as top bourbon from the Buffalo Trace distillery.

[@Lawnshrooms]

Calumet 16 batches vary so much though. I have a batch that tastes nothing like skittles and more like a dusty old saddle. For that much variation and at that price point, hard pass!

[@stuffandwhiskey]

That’s true and we should’ve mentioned that. We’ve tasted some very flat batches like W4006.09 and really don’t enjoy that one, but we like W4005.09 quite a bit.

[@boxterjeff]

I love Pappy 23, the wife says its too sweet.

[@sugarkitty4777]

With Calumet 16 still out there, I get Calumet 15 now for $99. Better price and I prefer it over the 16. But then I like that cherry bomb profile compared to more oak less cherry.

[@nandayane]

I gotta try it

[@Robert.Sheard]

I haven't tried Cal 16 but I wasn't a fan of Cal 15 (I think I'm the only one who didn't love it). It tasted over-oaked to me. Of course, I've never tried any of the Pappies, but I've heard the 15 often fares better than the 23 in blinds.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Pappy 15 over 23 for sure. The Calumet batches can vary which we should’ve mentioned, but all batches can vary so it feels like a broken record to mention it all the time. We still should’ve though.

[@Robert.Sheard]

@@stuffandwhiskey Yes, I've heard about the Cal 16 variations, although 15 seemed less subject to that. It's my first taste of Calumet, though, so nothing to use as a reference.

[@Reamer]

Another day, another blind where the supposed Holy Grail of whiskey gets its comeuppance.

[@Abby_Normal_1969]

I got swept up in the Calumet hype after watching some reviews a couple years ago. Everything I had was good or at least OK, but very poor value. The one exception is Calumet 15. Calumet 10 was extremely disappointing.

[@raymonddonahue7282]

good to know

[@otiskeithwatkins1679]

What's interesting to me with bourbon is nobody is making outrageous claims and trying to bring you to their brand by talking down the other guys. It just kind of happens. And there are no "higher quality" parts being used. It's grain, fire and time. Time is what drives the price along with the limited quantity....because of time.

[@jamesstreet1144]

I’m not a huge fan of the Calumet 16, it’s good not great to me. I’ve never seen a Pappy 23 and probably wouldn’t buy it if I did

[@877-MASH-NOW]

WHISKEY CHEERS 😎

[@GorillaGlueEnthusiast]

I have yet to see anyone actually enjoy pappy 23. Always disappointment with that bottle it seems.

[@dpberke1]

Cherry popsicles, skittles and Twix bars? This is the trailer park of bourbon reviewing.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

We’ll take that as a compliment. If you’re looking for high brow, pinkies out reviews then there are plenty of those types of channels out there, and we’re certainly not the right channel for you.

[@dpberke1]

@@stuffandwhiskey nobody wants their bourbon to taste like your favorite junk food. Good luck trying to appeal to that demographic.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

@@dpberke1 we're trying to appeal to exactly zero people. We're just ourselves and relaying our experiences. If that's for you, cool. If not, plenty of other channels out there.

[@dpberke1]

@@stuffandwhiskey you’re trying to appeal to no one? Just setting up a KZbin channel and spending making bourbon reviews simply for your own gratification? Could you be more disingenuous about what you’re doing? Please, if you weren’t trying to appeal to anyone you would need a camera turned on for your little project.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

@@dpberke1disingenuous? I don’t think you know what that word means. Either way, feel free to move on to another channel that fits your desires. We’ll keep doing our channel the way we want to. All the best.

[@rajoconnor]

I don’t like how you change the initial taste rating after you see the price. Just give them a bad overall.

[@red5standingby419]

That's kinda the whole point though. Is the juice in the bottle good or not regardless of any other info about it. If it is good, is it worth the price being asked for it? If it's not good, well then the price usually doesn't matter.

[@rajoconnor]

@@red5standingby419 exactly, don’t change opinion on the taste. Good or bad. Just give it a thumbs up or down based on price and availability. Just because it’s cheap or expensive, doesn’t men you like it or hate it more. I can see what the logic they try to achieve.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

If something is just so-so, but ends up being incredible value like a $20 pour that comes across much better, then that deserves props. And if it’s a high priced pour that’s ultimately terrible value there that’s going to be discussed. Just the way we live our lives. Value matters to us, so our channel reflects that.

[@apeekintime]

Whiskey hype and hype blindness is so real. I don't have any bottles of Pappy's but I have recently thrown Blanton's and Stagg into different 4 bottle flights and each bottle has placed 3rd against other bottles that are lower or similar MSRP. Stagg placed behind ECBP B523 and 1792 Full Proof. Blanton's lost to basic BT and Bowman Brothers ($30). I was lucky enough to score Stagg and Blanton's at MSRP. I'll never play secondary on either bottle - simply not worth it. I'd pay up to $75 for Stagg since that's about what I ECHP and 1792 FP go for in my area. I'll probably walk past Blanton's at MSRP unless I need a bottle for a gift. What I've learned is hype bottles are worth about what their MSRP and you rarely get more for spending more money on bourbon. Your bang for buck really nose dives past Rare Breed. There are a couple special Ryes I'd pay extra for (because there is less aged Rye out there). The only place where you really get more for spending more is Scotch and Irish. Malts tend to take age better. An expensive Scotch is expensive because it's good (mostly) not because it's hyped (mostly).

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Incredibly well said and we couldn’t agree more. It’s almost like the distilleries know what the retail price should be for the quality of product in the bottle. 😂 Cheers and thanks for watching!

[@TheWhiskeyAdvisor]

I thought Calumet 16 was complete trash. Way overpriced and doesnt taste its age at all.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Which batch? 4006? We’ve tried that one and it was massively lackluster. All the 4005 batches we’ve tried have been markedly better.

[@MildTurkey77]

I must of had a bad bottle of Calumet 16. Mine was gross... Nobody enjoyed it.

[@kermitpurcell6432]

Yeah, give it another try. I've had one bottle that was completely different than others.

[@secretsquirrel9601]

I bought a bottle and liked it. The next time i had a pour it reminded me of furniture polish. I had another pour and it was very good. I am no expert but i have some beliefs. 1. There is a difference in the neck pour 2.if you let your pour sit for a few minutes it will open up and reveal different notes. 3.the longer the bottle hasbeen opened the more it will change. 4. Adding a couple drops of water can alter a profile. 5. What kind of mood you are in will affect how you perceive it. So drink your cheap stuff if you are pissed off. If you still dont like it have someone make a blind and see if you like it

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Batch W40006.09? That one is flat and gross. We should’ve mentioned that in the video.

[@Scott-co4dq]

Your review style allows you to remove one of the most common things in any type of review : Confirmation Bias - the tendency for people to favour information that confirms their preconceptions or hypothesis regardless of whether the information is true. With all the hype and the "next great bottle" that runs rampant in this hobby it's something really hard to avoid. It makes life much simpler to find what you enjoy and look for those suppliers/products that align with your tastes and leave the hype behind.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

You get us, Scott. Thanks so much!

[@chriswiseman5985]

Lol … stick with a great wine …

[@SuperJimbeam15]

Overrated for both! IJS

[@realdac7899]

Just shows the chase is hardly worth it. Fun blind to watch.

[@GeeWhizbang]

Pappy 23… most overrated bourbon of all time given price, hype, taste?

[@stuffandwhiskey]

Would be hard to argue otherwise given it’s wildly expensive secondary pricing.

[@aarongoss8514]

Pappys are soooo overrated!

[@LeatherDaddy97]

Pappy 23 is gross. Gimme the calumet every time

[@yourdrinkingbuddy]

Randy from Bourbon Real Talk said it reminded him of a dry martini. I thought he was CRAZY till I tried it. Totlaly got that note. Like dry vermouth and oak. That is all I got. Not a good bottle at all.

[@yourdrinkingbuddy]

I actually LOVE Calumet 16 though. That is a super underrated bourbon. I am surprised they weren't into it.

[@stuffandwhiskey]

@yourdrinkingbuddy we’re just not big on ultra sweet (Erin) and ultra fruity (me). Not to say it’s bad-it’s just a presence thing.

[@LeatherDaddy97]

Chocolate over fruity candy easy

[@stuffandwhiskey]

TELL ‘EM! 👊