The Horrifying Weight of Memory and Choice | STANLEY PARABLE: ULTRA DELUXE Analysis & Review

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

If you enjoy our work, you can leave a tip for the price of a cup of coffee: ko-fi.com/togamesitmayconcern Let us know the next game(s) we should cover! Share, like, and subscribe to help our channel grow. Thank you!

[@crowscrowscrows7748]

Ripped the audio track for the next one. This was great, thank you!

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Thanks for watching our video! Yes, 20+ years from now when the final Stanley Parable arrives, remember us as the blind, bitter brother-critics who just couldn't grasp the brilliance. We will reflect on this. We will atone.

[@MrGamelover23]

@@ToGamesItMayConcern I feel so bad for how much effort you put into these videos that nobody watches, makes me reconsider my fantasies of trying to make a single KZbin video. I feel even worse that I'm not subscribing because I'm not really looking for a long form video game reviews at the moment. But I really hope that you blow up, and I'll be watching your career with great interest.

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

@Tech Freak This is a really genuine comment, something I value more than an additional subscription. Thank you for enjoying our work. If you ever feel inspired, I hope you make a video. Do it just for yourself, just to hear your voice onscreen and to know you constructed something carefully. And maybe someone out there you don't expect will latch on to it, and they will enjoy that you were just yourself. That could make it all worthwhile-to know that being yourself was significant for someone else. I keep learning something with each new video. Frankly, it's just nice to sit down with my brother and talk. It's nice to get slowly better at editing and to have the end result be nearer to what I envisioned. And it's nice to receive comments from strangers who somehow connect with what I make. Again, thanks for watching and for your kind comment.

[@everything_on_red]

@@ToGamesItMayConcern Well damn... I've also had those fantasies of making a video for a while and now I feel more inspired than I've ever been!

[@tannerdodge6029]

Every path you can take in the game reveals a little more about the Narrator, and the new paths in Ultra Deluxe reveal even more about him and just like in 2013, I feel bad for him more than anything. He's too attached to his work, and a criticism of the Stanley Parable is taken as a critique of himself

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Fascinating angle to view the game in. The narrator is trapped. It's not just Stanley. Trapped by devotion to or identification with his work. Hmm... I wish I had thought of that myself.

[@SuperStingray]

Something I think that's interesting about the Narrator is how there isn't a canonical representation of his nature even within the game. In some paths, he has full control of the story, in others he's just along for the ride and describing what he sees, in others he's just a figment of Stanley's imagination, and in others he's competing against different narrative forces, etc. It's not always clear what he will or won't remember between resets either or what limitations he's beholden to. It's definitely an intentional choice and kind of fits well with the non-Euclidean and unpredictable level structure, but I think it's an interesting dreamlike logic that you don't see even in other similar meta-narrative games- and I think that's the key to how the game keeps surprising the player despite following a very rigid structure, and it saves the metanarrative from falling apart because you understand that the only thing that's consistent is its own inconsistency.

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Yes, great point! That's one of the great opportunities with fourth-wall-breaking stories: you can play with alternative scenarios; you are not forced to follow one thread; the fact that the user has accepted the meta-ness of the narrative means you can experiment even further. I'm glad Stanley Parable plays so readily with that opportunity.

[@ReverendTed]

5:24 - Re: the freedom of limits. There's a neat analogy about a playset in a field. Children will tend to cluster and play just around the playset. However, if you then put up a fence to define the boundaries of the play area, children will play throughout the field, all the way up to the fence. We're more likely to approach our boundaries if they're defined, for good or ill. The counter example is telling a child what they're not allowed to do and them now wanting to try it, because obviously they should _want_ to, or they wouldn't need to be told not to. Personally, I enjoyed SP:UD. I know that the amount of effort that goes into a product is not necessarily directly correlated with its quality, or value, but I did feel like SP:UD was "enough more" of what I liked before to be satisfying to me. Really enjoyed your commentary, though I'll admit that I found the ending of the video disappointing when you said you were disappointed. I'm here to reinforce and validate my existing beliefs about the content I have consumed, not be forced to confront the possibility that I may not be a "truly enlightened" consumer of media who exists in a framework where "good" and "true" are concrete and definable. Next time, please express enjoyment of the things I like, thank you. (Keep up the good work!)

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Haha, yes, in a sense we disappointed you with our disappointment. Though, if it helps, our disappointment stems from our adoration of what is otherwise there.

[@ReverendTed]

Ha! Hopefully my comment wasn't too disappointing for you.

[@SmileytheSmile]

I recently watched the game's playthrough by Davey Wreden, the game's writer, and his brother and that gave some interesting insight into how the devs made the game. Originally, none of the new bucket ending even existed. The bucket itself was a random object that filled in a role that any other object could have filled, a bucket was just the answer to a question "Why not a bucket?". Originally, all they wanted the Stanley Parable 2 section to be, was the exact same endings, but with the acknowledgement that the bucket was there, the joke being how much money and effort they spent hiring the voices of the narrator and that female narrator back just to redo the same lines with an "and the bucket" added to them. But then slowly the idea to use the bucket as a key to the new substanceless endings came to be. I belive that that was the reason for the devs to delay the game so much, since they originally didn't know that all of this new content would exist. I'd say that only the new content ending, the Stanley Parable 2 ending and the Epilogue were planned to be included, maybe with elevator and ventilation shaft endings included. If that's the case, then despite the game doing all it can to portray itself as a cashgrab, it ironically was delayed for pretty noble causes. I'd advise you to watch that 3 hour playthrough, it's pretty fun and insightful. Also this was a pretty good discussion video, I liked it, nice job guys.

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Oh, wow, I have to watch that video. Do you remember what channel you found it on? Thank you for this insight. Really useful to know!

[@SmileytheSmile]

@@ToGamesItMayConcern kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHbRd3yAnbt0Y8k

[@SmileytheSmile]

In case the response gets deleted for containing a link, the channel is DougDougDoug.

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Awesome, thank you!

[@TheVardek13]

Great discussion as always! I have to say though that while your criticism of the structure of the new content is fair, the game does end with the epilogue: it drives the themes home and how it is up to everyone to live and relive the experience of the game on our own terms, outside any prestige or reputation the game must hold in public discourse. This game came out in 2013 and, in a way, suggesting you to rediscover with the baggage of nostalgia and time kind of justifies the existence of the repeated endings "with a bucket". Even though I feel like I remembered most of the endings, the bucket kind of gave me a reason to retry all the endings that are a parody of what once was a revolutionary experience in the game design landscape, like you explained well in the video. I feel like the game being a bit more bleak isn't necessary a bad/negative thing. Especially when the final message is so uplifting in my eyes. Just my two cents, looking forward to the next video! :-)

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

I love this comment: it's insightful, specific, and helps re-frame my own view in a respectful way. Thank you. I wonder if some of the criticism I felt at the end of the game ended up being the result of my having played the original Stanley Parable not that long ago and remembering it vividly. Maybe that built up a kind of fatigue at repeating certain sections, since I had so thoroughly repeated those sections prior. I would have loved to be able to have the Ultra Deluxe version be my first experience with Stanley Parable. I wonder if I would've gotten even more out of it (or what if I would've gotten even less). Who knows. There was originally a section of this review discussion wherein my brother and I discussed how different the game would feel if neither of us had played before and that maybe our views on the game have a lot to do with our familiarity with it, but we didn't end up reaching any kind of conclusion on the matter so we cut it out. Frankly, I really wanted to love the Stanley Parable Ultra Deluxe more. I was surprised that I ended up feeling disappointed at the end. I kind of want to blame myself, my own lethargy, instead of the game; the game itself is so rich with symbolism and effort and meaning-How could I blame it? In the least, in spite of whatever obstacles curtail my enjoyment, I appreciate it. I appreciate it a lot.-And I appreciate you coming back to view our thoughts on the matter, too!

[@TheVardek13]

@@ToGamesItMayConcern Thank you for the kind words, you are too nice haha. And about the the whole "playing it with a blank slate" speculation, I feel like that if you are interested in game design and know about the current landscape of experimental/narrative games, you won't be particularly impressed by the Stanley Parable UD. I believe that the whole setup of having you "chose" and then showing you how little choice you really have isn't that special or interesting on its own to warrant the game to be some trail-blazing concept, even less now that so many games explored the genre with interesting takes - things like Firewatch, Edith Finch, even The Witness, Before Your Eyes or Scanner Sombre. I'd go as far as to say that a bunch of games tried the whole "narrator is aware of the player" gimmick and fell on their face for relying on cheap 4rth wall-breaking jokes and no substance apart from the aforementioned schtick. (I am looking at you There Is No Game: Wrong Dimension and Pony Island/The Hex) I always felt that what makes the Stanley Parable special is the subtext, specifically the discussion around The Death of the Author from Barthes. I saw that one of your first videos on the channel was about The Beginner's Guide, and I do feel like that Ultra Deluxe expands on what TBG told and the context of its creation and the mental health of its creator Davey Wreden. I don't know how familiar you are with that, he wrote a blog post about it at the time: web.archive.org/web/20170608181241/www.galactic-cafe.com/2014/02/game-of-the-year Davey also talked about it in this presentation: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWXQlIeifsakpqs In short, what I think happened is that it all started with the uniqueness of having an actual "auteur" making a game as a statement of the video-game landscape and the illusion of concept such as "choice" and "immersion" with the original Stanley Parable. Davey then followed up with The Beginner's guide which was a way to accept his own death as an author after fighting it for so long and being anxious about it. Leading to Ultra Deluxe, which reflects to what legacy is and how the death of the author is in a way the birth of an infinite number of new experiences of all the people discovering or rediscovering Davey's original game that was so dear to him. All in all, what I am saying is that you shouldn't feel bad for being disappointed, it's fair to want something that rekindles this awe-inspiring feeling of trail-blazing discovery! But in a way the game wants you to be at peace with that. No need for some flamboyant new content or crazy revolutionary gimmicks: just appreciate the moment and leave the discourse behind, because the biggest achievement of The Stanley Parable was that it reminded me why I love games so much and why they make you feel something. (Which is harder and harder these days with all the horrible stuff happening in the industry and in the world in general...) Anyways, I rambled quite a bit, hope I am not too verbose in this comment! Thanks for taking the time to read my original comment, and as I said in the last comment, looking forward to the next video!

[@bigmanmax647]

At some point after I finished playing the bucked content and the Epilouge, something dawned on me. The "Bucket" is supposed to be the Essence of what this game tries to address. It's supposed to be a metaphor for empty promises. Yeah sure it looks like quite a decent bucket, but it's not holding anything, just an empty bucket, all just a facade for nothing. And once that idea dawned on me, I've become a lot more fond of all the Bucket content the game offered me. Because once that metaphor burned itself into my brain, I could tell that all those Bucket stories were a lot more than just "haha random funny" content. When I looked at the Bucket stories again with that fact in mind, I could really see all the commentary behind them, all the things the game was trying to tell me. It really showed me just how much thought went into this expansion, because it's SUCH a good commentary on itself in so many more ways than it initially makes itself out to be, and there's so much meaning to find in it when your'e really looking for it. And on a surface level, just as well, it shows itself as exactly what its meant to be; an uninspired, pandering, below average game expansion. Because nothing else would get the point across just as well. To be able to fulfill its role so perfectly on every single narrative level showed me just how much effort they put into it, and they will forever have all my respect for that. Since you guys haven't mentioned that specific Bucket metaphor at any point in the video, there's no way for me to tell if you every realized the meaning that the Bucket is supposed to convey during your playthrough, but in case you haven't: I beg of you to look at the stories again, may that be by playing them again, watching other peoples playthroughs, or even if its just through the things you still remember; I just have to make sure you see what I saw. Great content, will return for another video!

[@19Szabolcs91]

Yeah, having played Stanley Parable 9 years ago when it first came out, the repetition really didn't feel old to me. It was sorta like a Back to the Future 2 thing where we go through beats of the original with new events added on top and around it. Still, great analysis and I agree with most of your points on nostalgia, sequels and milking franchises. I just feel like it landed better for me than for you.

[@Guruc13]

Wow, jees. Well done. Y'all pulled a lot out of the game and elucidated what was there in the text!

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Thank you! We try our best to fill each conversation with substance, and I'm glad you appreciate what we had to say for this one.

[@fruktumkalasbajen9647]

Extremely underrated video! I agree that the bucket takes up WAY too much of the new content and that the joke grows stale very fast.

[@SleepyRobbo]

this was a really entertaining and agreeable video, you made me change my mind about a lot of things with this game. i think it left me feeling unsatisfied at first because of the structure of it, all the bucket endings appearing at the end, but i can really appreciate what it says about the relationship between the creator and the audience. it was all so interesting and well-spoken and nice to listen to, thanks a lot you guys

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Thank you for this very kind comment. We try our best to be ourselves, and it's great to hear that some people appreciate that.

[@Arkayruz]

Wow. This is a truly solid video, and 99% of that is due to how interesting is listening to you guys. Subbed.

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Thank you!

[@eukarya_]

First of all I want to say that I really liked this review, it's insightful and has given me a new perspective I hadn't previously considered. I want to share here my interpretation of the bucket, although it's not very fleshed out so sorry if it comes up as shallow. At first I felt similarly to you about the bucket, however after giving it some thought I think there might be more to it than meets the eye. I think the bucket kind of mirrors the situation with the skip button, however this time Stanley is the one sacrificing his persona for what ultimately is a hollow piece of metal. Think about it, when you're with the bucket it is implied that Stanley is following its command and regularly the bucket endings are catastrophic versions of the regular endings. I see this as a commentary on overattatchment and overcaring, as the bucket creeps into all aspects of Stanley's life leading to his demise. I'm not entirely sure of what the concrete metaphor is here but as part of the essence of art is that it's up to interpretation (and I think that's part of the point of The Stanley Parable) I've come up with several possibilities such as a toxic relationship with a person, with your own artistic creation and even depression. All of them things that many creators (and people in general for that matter) struggle with. I don't know whether I am onto something or not, but I wanted to share my opinion, also sorry if some parts of this comment are poorly written as English isn't my first language. Anyways, good review, you have my like.

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Great comment! Thank you for thinking so carefully on the subject and giving me something new to chew on. The fact that the bucket is called a 'reassurance bucket' and so we know Stanley gets some deep meaning or value from it (in spite of it just being a 'hollow piece of metal' as you say)-all that fits what you're saying. It's like how we can all become devoted to something that is otherwise literally not giving us anything in return, and yet we obsess over it and grant it meaning (potentially to the point of undoing ourselves). Again, thanks for thinking so much on this!

[@eukarya_]

@@ToGamesItMayConcern You're welcome and thanks for your answer! And yes, it's exactly what you say, and Stanley isn't the only one, as it is shown that pretty much the whole of society is on the same page. I'm not entirely sure what it's trying to commentate on, if anything but apart from what I say in my previous comment perhaps is a critique of consumerism and people losing their heads over the most menial of things just because someone told them that it was valuable. But I guess it's up to interpretation. Ironically I sometimes worry that I might be putting too much thought into terminally hollow experiences, but with this game I feel a little more confident to do that.

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

You know, sometimes with analysis like this, it's not so much about what the game or novel or film is 'trying to say' in a literal sense; sometimes it's about the relationships you notice, or the patterns that connect to other aspects of life. Like when you play Stanley Parable and notice Stanley's devotion to an object without actual worth, and it feels like an analogy for consumerism, that analogy is true whether or not it's the 'intended meaning' of the game you're analyzing. It just so happens that the relationship occurring in the game accidentally or purposefully touches on something fundamental. In thinking about it, you gain a new way of viewing/experiencing the game, but also a new way of viewing/experiencing those sorts of relationships in life. That's valuable, if only as a practice of careful thought on your part. I think sometimes people feel embarrassed to think hard about things, like there's a risk of being 'wrong,' and unfortunately this can lead to a sort of stagnation of thought, a sort of numbing to the beauty in analogy and connection and focus. Keep thinking. Take joy in it. If a game spurs thoughts of obsession and commodity and excess, dive into those thoughts. See where they take you. I appreciate that you added to the discussion here. Honestly, I'm excited that people are viewing my video(s) and actually feeling inspired to share their thoughts. I just want more thinking, generally, without need for practical conclusions, just the process of it, just for its own sake. Thanks for thinking and for writing your thoughts out.

[@BoogsNStuff]

wonderful video, particularly loved your reading of the infinite hole ending

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Thank you! I'm glad you appreciate that interpretation. It was a somewhat spur-of-the-moment view that came up while recording.

[@flophawk]

one of the things i always thought of specifically surrounding the whole marketing bit is one of the posters. Like this is straight off from the skip button, one of the skips being the narrator having a complete mental collapse and just repeating "the end is never the end is never th-" Which is taking the lil loading screen and turning it into this incredibly potent moment, and then not 10 minutes later its on a big cheesy poster that's just "the end is never the end, again!!!!!!" its in that pursuit of recognition and marketability and distilling the experience just to grab attention that you end up stripping all meaning of what made the source meaningful. And in the end all you're left with is an empty husk with an hour of new elevator content.

[@verawang1649]

I love this video. Are you going to make one for The Beginner’s Guide?

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Thank you! Way back in 2016 we made a video on that game, but this was before we edited our audio and the video is quite amateur overall. I had it unlisted, but I just put it back up so you can see it if you're curious. If anything, it will give you a sense of how much our video editing style has changed over the years.

[@verawang1649]

@@ToGamesItMayConcern wow that’s great thank you! Definitely watching it.

[@tracingswords3014]

great video guys! just stumbled across this channel. love it! gonna binge your videos over the next few days i think lol

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Thank you very much! Depending on how far back you go, you'll notice the mic and editing quality diminish a tad, but I hope you find the core ideas solid throughout. Don't tire yourself out, though! Haha. We should have a new, short, different-sort-of video out tomorrow (Friday) or Saturday. I'm just about done editing it. Comments like yours really help push us to keep creating new material. So thank you for your kind words!

[@oriongurtner7293]

If there’s a deeper meaning to the game and what it’s trying to show us its that both free will, or simply “choice”, and determinism , or lack of choice, are both related by limiting the circumstances one encounters Choice itself limits events the same way determinism does, by ‘choosing’ something The only difference is comparative orientation (choice is internally oriented while determinism is externally oriented) But I’m leaning toward the hidden message being related to ‘bumpscocity’ Whatever that represents is a mystery, but I’m sure there’s a message hidden in there somewhere

[@Pedro999Paulo]

very good analysis I agree with most of it. I like to divide the game in 4 parts: The original, The new content stuff (new content door, both memory zones, stanley parable 2 presentation, and the epilogue), the new endings (bottom of the mind control room, press conference and tape recordings) and bucket endings. what I was expecting from this game was the original and the new endings. I like the press conference ending a lot, it was the time I laugh more in the whole game. The bottom of the mind control room was a very great adition the only works in this context, the tape recording was ok. New content was great, but I have nothing to say about it that you guys didnt said yet, I dont think I like more then the original tho, even if is technicly better, I thik the sense of discovery of the original make it a better experience for me (maybe is just nostalgia idk, just being honest about my preference). I think you guys also got it right about the bucket endings, since is kind of the point and I wasnt even expecting to be that much content anyway I think is harmless to how great I think this deluxe version is.

[@MDG-mykys]

6:27 I own that book! Btw, have you played The Beginner's Guide?

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

A long time ago we did a review discussion of that game (back in 2016), but only one of us played through it.

[@tymon234]

The bucket got old so fast. I was so sad knowing you cant go back to the exhibition hall...

[@Phillylove100]

Are you going to do myst at some point? I know where those little sound effects are from! You didn’t pull that past me!! Also your videos are awesome! You deserve way more views!

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Haha, that's great that you noticed. We should do that game. There's a remake of it that came out like a year ago I think. I love the sound effects. There's something vaguely creepy or unnerving about them.

[@Phillylove100]

@@ToGamesItMayConcern There’s like 5 remakes of Myst lmao. Though I wouldn’t play the newest remake or at least do it with a live action mod because they replace the original live action characters with these awful horrible uncanny valley creations. Also the sequel Riven is just as good if not better than the first. It’s kinda just wrong to talk about Myst and ignore Riven.

[@Edis_Prime]

What's the music at the begining ?

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

The section at the very beginning of the video with the shifting images is in-game, and the music is based on player input (each bang corresponding to when I pressed the button to shift each image). I purposefully did it on-rhythm to make for a musical-ish intro. You'll have to reach that point in the game (by falling down the hole) to do it yourself.

[@Edis_Prime]

@@ToGamesItMayConcern Ok wauw another surprise that this game gave me. Thanks for the info.

[@Deadforge]

Definitely need to play this game. I live the 4th wall breaking meta style. I like when games point out things you don't really think about. Go check out The Escapists Anatomy of series and I forget the guy who dros those video but he has another channel where he started doing those videos.

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Oh, I haven't seen this series of vids yet. Thanks for the rec!

[@thejonbrownshow8470]

6:25ish.... Now I want a Stanley x yiik crossover

[@Ultrakillfan6894]

Fun fact in xbox edition they aren't steam reviews they are "pressurized gas" reveiws

[@aydinmakesthings]

Honestly for me, I was kind of disappointed in this game. I know a lot of people love this game, but I was pretty disappointed in the "new" content. I get the point is that it's the same game, but with a bucket. The bucket is a funny joke at first, but when a joke is $25, and repetitive, it's not funny. They advertised it to have all this new stuff. Only to really give us the same game, but now with alternate endings you can get from the bucket. I know it wasn't easy to make this game. As someone who dreams of making games, the amount of work and effort can be very hard. But as a person playing, I felt like I was just playing the game again. Imagine if the narrator did other stuff, like changing genres? Turning the game into random stuff, like some dumb fps, or other dumb things? I know people love this game, and maybe I just don't get it? But I was honestly disappointed.

[@Halucygeno]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I feel like the "skip button" ending, where the world becomes completely barren and destroyed, ties into the narrator's perfectionism and this idea of "letting go of your work". No matter how much you obsess over it, how much you try to make it perfect, it's impact will always be fleeting, because everything is fleeting. Even the most timeless masterpieces will be forgotten when humanity goes extinct (and most works will fade into obscurity much earlier than that). It was a shockingly earnest and melancholic moment from this satirical comedy game, and it definitely feels like the highlight of the whole experience.

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Great observation. Thank you! And that ties into the sense that whatever we create loses meaning when there isn't someone to receive it: when all society has dwindled away, faded into a lost history, what value does our work of art hold anymore? Creation and reception is a relationship.

[@gregoryberrycone]

house of leaves is some low tier post modern lit but other than that good vid

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

Haha, absolutely. But it shows up well on camera.

[@gregoryberrycone]

@@ToGamesItMayConcern still not an awful book by any means, i think it worked best as a more straightforward horror narrative (the parts in the shifting abyss were pretty stand out) and i figured you just used it for the extremely unmissable visual arrangement of the text on the page. either way im always glad when people who make these long form videos on video game narrative/writing etc actually have some awareness of or background with real literature. my go to examples of the genre are always gravitys rainbow by pynchon and the sot weed factor by john barth edit: apologies for the wall of text but i realized i said pretty much nothing of substance about the game itself. i like some of the themes the developer explores in the game, however i am of the opinion games as a medium should generally be mechanically satisfying to actually play, not to say there isn't room for art pieces like this there obviously is, i just hope to see the guy branch out into stuff with a little more depth in the game play department, ideally in a way that informs the narrative or vice versa.

[@ToGamesItMayConcern]

I feel lucky to have read a lot of postmodern lit prior to getting my degree in English: some literary theory muddles the experience, frankly. If I remember correctly, it started with stumbling onto Broom of the System by David Foster Wallace. I was at a Barnes N Noble and the cover was a rare Penguin edition-some artistic sketching-and it sucked me in. Something about Wallace's earnest, almost confessional writing style felt like the birth of a deep weight in my psyche as a reader. One of Wallace's stories references Barth, and so I consumed each of Barth's books soon after, which then led to Barthelme and McElroy (whose books I still find difficult yet fantastic after all these years) and Gass, and then I finally went to college and learned of far more. I say all this for the sake of a recommendation: read William T. Vollmann. He's not strictly postmodern. In fact, I rarely hear him mentioned in postmodern discussions. But he has become my favorite writer, and he strays nearest to recapturing that initial feeling I felt in that Barnes N Noble bookstore all those years ago, that feeling of an author nakedly intimating to the reader the essence of something deep, painful, hidden, yet altogether true. The Atlas, Europe Central, or The Dying Grass are great starting points. As for a balance between symbolism and game design, have you tried Disco Elysium or Inscryption? Both I got to enjoy recently, and both walk that tightrope between art and entertainment nicely. Thank you for bringing books into the comment section of my channel.

[@gregoryberrycone]

@@ToGamesItMayConcern ive had disco elysium recommended a lot but something about it is sort of off putting about it to me, i honestly couldn't tell you what. ive heard good things about Gass and Vollmann, ill pick up europe central sometime. ive currently got an absurd backlog of stuff to read but im sure ill get to it eventually. and yeah im sure dfw was a lot of peoples entry point into post modernism or even more serious fiction in general, infinite jest blew my socks off when i read it in high school lol. I've sort of jumped around randomly from different classic novels, reading whatever seems appealing at the time. some of the ones that really stood out to me as supreme works of genius were hamlet (obviously, but it took me way too long to properly appreciate shakespeare) Don Quixote (basically proto post modern fiction with the novel within a novel) the Brothers Karamazov, the Red and the Black by Stendhal and the aforementioned works of barth and pynchon.