The Huge Carbon Fiber Pickleball Paddle Controversy That No One is Talking About

[@kento1957]

Can you talk about spray on texture? What is the material used? The texture eventually wears down and it becomes smooth. Assuming rec play only, is it possible to DIY "re-texture" them? What texture material would you recommend?

[@braddaddis371]

Would love to know if this is possible. Nothing worse than having a $220 paddle in perfect condition but with what becomes a smooth face after a few months.

[@tunit8946]

There is at least one video on KZbin that shows how to add grit . I don't understand how one can buy a paddle with grit , but when it wears off. It's not within the rules to refinish it . Sounds like a racket . No pun intended.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

I could look into the exact compound! To be fully transparent we abandoned this pretty early so I don't recall the exact details.

[@kento1957]

@@kiwilabspickleball That would be great. Looking forward to your reply.

[@danielcastro2380]

Where you sell slice paddle on the back?

[@gg80108]

I would like to see a paddle with table tennis rubber. Would also solve the noise of the ball issue.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

It would! But it would certainly never pass USAPA unfortunately.

[@gao57009]

I thought this video was going to be about delamination which happens to be the hot talk this week (Ben Johns' comments, etc). Maybe you could address in another video?

[@noahb_pickleball]

Not to mention we don’t have any info about the new paddle that his brother started using this weekend. We do know however that Electrum has put an order in for thermoformed paddles with the same factory Vatic Pro uses.

[@JoseBravo-pf1le]

Ben’s paddle is stupidly unfair. I’ve hit with a Perseus, not even decently close to any other in the market

[@robertnowak13]

@@JoseBravo-pf1lein what way?

[@kiwilabspickleball]

I am late! But I did finally get into that.

[@mlee9049]

Hi, great video. I also wonder about the inked on graphics that a lot of brands overdo on their carbon fiber surfaces. Sellkirk comes to mind. My thinking is that ink fills or pools within texture and reduces spin. Any thoughts on this?

[@terogan]

If the USAP buys paddles randomly to test then how does it benefit companies to not polish all paddles? Are they just hoping that said company/paddle won’t be picked for further testing?

[@kiwilabspickleball]

They keep polished ones on hand in case USAPA requests them to be retested.

[@RichardsWorld]

@@kiwilabspickleball I'm assuming he thinks USAPA should buy the paddles themselves from a dealer like Pickleball Central and test them (after being certified). Getting them directly from the owner of the company is a bad idea. Or they can work with a company like Pickleball Central and test the retail paddles in stock.

[@terogan]

@@RichardsWorld that is exactly what USAP said they did after CRBN's first paddlegate. They said they had been randomly buying paddles to test from retail stores or from places like Pickleball Central at tournaments. Thank you for explaining it better.

[@robedwards6926]

What country makes your paddle?

[@braddaddis371]

Very insightful and much appreciated. Just found your channel and looking forward to future videos. Btw, what is the name of the brand of paddles you are making? Best of luck

[@kiwilabspickleball]

Thanks for the kind words! Our paddle is called the Slice from KiwiLabs

[@richhume6717]

Interesting video. About the noise issue, I was wondering if making a center core of eva foam, then build outer layers of the usual stuff. Then the EVA could dampen noise and possibly not deflect much. Diadem has a three layer paddle, so it seem doable at normal thicknesses.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

I don't think USAPA is allowing a foam center to paddles. But I don't see why we couldn't get a little experimental down the road!

[@lesterma1608]

Not competing as a pro so no need to be tested

[@NOT_A_TOP_FAN]

7 months later and it’s still an issue! Boxes of paddles being taken to tournaments and all fail. Mind blowing to me….

[@yojironin]

Can you comment on the difference between T700 and 3K carbon fiber? You mention that raw T700 is super gritty so was just wondering if that was also the case for 3K? Cause from the paddles I've seen that use 3K (Gearbox & Players), they're pretty smooth comparatively. And it feels to me like it's because 3K is already smooth to begin with and not that it's rough like T700 and have been polished down.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

Yeah, I know gearbox is getting some good results with 3k. If I’m being completely honest, we never even built a prototype with 3k to try it. Since 3k is cheaper and has larger fiber weaves than t700, we thought we would just go right to t700 since it’s most popular. So to answer your question, yes. I think that since the weave in 3k is larger, they probably don’t have to polish or add coating. We will probably give 3k a try for one of our future paddles. We have already started working on our next few models.

[@yojironin]

@@kiwilabspickleball Got it, thanks for the reply. It seems to me that 3K is so smooth that it doesn't really help w/spin like T700 does. Which is why Gearbox felt the need to use a "ribbed" core and eventually add spray on grit to increase spin. I do like the way 3K looks though. =) Also, just out of curiosity, are there any rules (besides the surface roughness test) that limit what you can use as material for the hitting surface of a paddle?

[@robertnowak13]

Curious what you are doing about the delamination issues…

[@kiwilabspickleball]

We are in contact with our producers and let them know this is a serious issue. We think it's happening to the larger brands due to their large scale production and in-proper ammounts and/or placement of the adhesive that binds the core to the face. Production times on thermoformed paddles take a lot longer and they are likely trying to blaze through. All we can do is keep our producers alert on the issue and keep our production down to smaller batches so we can stay on top of quality control.

[@jamesgordy880]

Where are the best companies to work with in paddle development?

[@kiwilabspickleball]

It takes A LOT of trial and error. Ordering samples, chatting through their available materials and technologies. I have no problem sharing the name of our producers if you reach out via email.

[@DavidSchilter]

The idea of hand-polishing - on top of all the variability in the manufacturing of carbon-fiber products - will probably introduce even more inconsistencies in products. I hope one day material scientists specifically design a material with the desired/legal specifications. Or maybe that already exists and manufacturers haven't looked hard enough.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

you're not wrong. I think there are some carbon fibers that are within scope. But they are not as gritty. Luckily, the difference between paddles is so small it would be nearly impossible to notice. Like I mentionened, we use the RZ score to measure and all of them were within 2 points of each other, when taking their averages. (27-29 range)

[@rickrzendzian2228]

I just want the grit advantage so I can reek havoc on rec players.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

lol I am sure you're not alone!

[@jacktheglide9411]

Same! 😂

[@TurningUs]

You are talking about the noise problem and you mentioned in the previous video that the Z5 is loud. When I played with the POP paddle I mentioned in my other comment I was also amazed about its quietness of it. But why am I mentioning this here when you didn't respond to my comment on the other video? Hmmm, I admit that I am a little frustrated by your lack of response.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

Hoping to get TONS of footage around how it plays/ pop/ etc.... Just waiting for the snow to melt here in Michigan! lol.

[@joshuapickett1234]

What will your introductory lineup be looking like?

[@kiwilabspickleball]

Great question. After we get the Slice up and running. We will be launching 2 more paddles. 1. a semi intro/rec play paddle (experimenting with 3k carbon fiber for this likely) Something sub $100 that lets new players get a high-quality paddle that's unique from the other paddles at this price point. 2. Another pro/intermediate level paddle. This one will be next to market. We will be aiming for something similar to the slice, but with a more traditional elongated shape. This will have the same raw carbon fiber as the slice. And we are thinking this one will not be thermoformed like the slice. That way we have two pretty different quality options for pro/intermediate players

[@joshuapickett1234]

@@kiwilabspickleball what is the balance of the paddle gonna be? Worried it will be too head heavy

[@danpiedra3910]

Paddles should not be tested from manufacturer. USPA should test paddles randomly from players at tournaments as they have begun to do with reflection standards. That being the case, paddles should be tested randomly and at the beginning of a match. If it fails, the player can go to another paddle of the same type of other that needs to pass. Players should not be given the go-ahead to ask for other players' paddles to be tested.

[@MattyRut2922]

I just wanted everyone to know Kiwi Lab's solution of a cloth surface material, that is on my wife's Kiwi Slice, is amazing and hasn't degraded like my paddles (3x premium paddles, two are Kevlar mix and one is 100% Kevlar). I'm trying to figure out how to justify a 4th paddle so I can have one.

[@lambdaprocess7983]

So USAPA will have to let the paddle manufacturers know that the equivalent of the Death Penalty will be assessed if it is discovered that non conforming paddles are being produced and sold after USAPA Testing. Let the Lawsuits begin.........

[@billkennedy401]

At this point, I think more people are focused on the de-laminating thermoformed paddles and the deflection measurements.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

Just finished my video on this. Certainly the talk of the town!

[@billkennedy401]

@@kiwilabspickleball back to youtube!

[@stevecrawford333]

You say all of this now, until big boy bank rolls come after Kiwi and squash you because they pay off the usap ppa. Literally Joola just wants to monopolize crbn face paddles and squash the smaller players.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

They can try.

[@sivyisvaj8054]

Keep rough I like the spin. 🤣

[@AJCsr]

One word, Gearbox ! CX-14E ❤

[@BrassHammer]

try to be less flippy floppy and more to the point?

[@kiwilabspickleball]

I am king flippy and prince floppy. Sorry in advance.