The Hunger Games: Mockingjay, Part 2 (2015) - These Things Happen In War Scene (8/10)

[@loulie1997]

"We both know I'm not above killing children. But I'm not wasteful." I love that line. Most villains aren't honest, which I why I think Snow is so well written. He's evil, and not only does he know it, he's ok with it.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

I've read his book. He doesn't believe himself to be evil, in fact he even thinks how much of an extraordinary person he is many times. When he begins his path to ultimate power at the very end, he knows he'll be hated, but he believes that without him and his brutality, the Capitol will fall and humanity will be in an even worse situation. He becomes obsess with control and order.

[@RoboEpic]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 I read the book too and you're right, he doesn't see himself as evil and I didn't see him as evil either after I read the book. Or at least I can understand his thought process better.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@RoboEpic I found him even more disgusting now that I know his twisted reasoning.

[@FunSoSoToTo]

I like and understand Snow in the movies,,, but in the new book, I can't believe he is the same person I know,,, I understand his twisted motives,, but I feel like president Snow is much smarter than younger Snow,,,

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@FunSoSoToTo Maybe because old snow is, well, older? And actually, he mentions several times how his obsessive side keeps him from seeing the big picture, and that was his undoing even in the prime of his dictator job"I'm afraid we've both been played for fools"

[@LPJack02]

RIP Donald Sutherland (July 17, 1935 - June 20, 2024), aged 88 You will be remembered as a legend.

[@mariolaudato8019]

its things we love most that destroy us- donald sutherland still a great line to this day may he rest in peace

[@cs512tr]

im extremely annoyed there was nothing for him on the news here that i saw...

[@jwill5892]

​@@cs512tr I saw it on Inside Edition

[@novahina]

CLONES FROM HOLLYWOOD AND THE ILLUMINATTI.

[@altalia07]

May he rest in peace 🙏🏽🙏🏽

[@ongjanellez]

the fact he was the only one who gave his condolences about her sister

[@elgatito9271]

The fact his sister died in middle of a war too

[@gerardcollins80]

But then again how did he know her sister had died?

[@kelly3014]

Peeta did...eventually.

[@MRauTObt]

Like he said, it was televised live.

[@johnbanks4761]

@@gerardcollins80 live television and it would have been known right after that the mockingjay lost her sister in that bombing

[@MadKingOfMadaya]

*_”We both know I’m not above killing children”_* *_There is just something very comical about that line xd_*

[@frchrisheffernan]

Many people today are not above killing children either. For example they are trying to pass laws in certain states of USA to have babies killed if they are born after a failed abortion.

[@woop8706]

@George Arg children. 12 - 18 years old. Imo anyone below 15 is a child.

[@NeonKnights888]

@@woop8706 May be one of the reasons nobody takes you seriously...

[@user-pi3hd2bt3f]

At least hes honest. Theres something respectable about villans who admit they are villans.

[@jackielana9993]

Fr Chris Heffernan anything’s possible if u lie I guess

[@NoahHerman]

*"Do you know, it aired live? There's a particular savvy in that isn't there."* Sums up the Hunger Games pretty neatly. It also emphasizes the fact that televised violence would continue under Coin's regime.

[@eddiemoran8044]

Also the hypocrisy of the capital, when in the hunger games they would cheer for the murder of children, but now because it was being done onto them they immediately saw the horror and switched their opinion of snow.

[@zxKAOS1]

@@eddiemoran8044 FWIW, I'm guessing there were some against the hunger games, but they didn't want to speak up in such a regime

[@alecbormia4523]

@@eddiemoran8044 that’s like with a lot of politics and people tho unfortunately. It doesn’t matter until it happens to you.

[@Alanik06]

There is a deafening undertone here in modern US politics.

[@roryedward2631]

Obviously..Coin even suggests they hold a hunger games themselves with the Capitols children now that they're in control.

[@sinkoprvi3477]

The way he says "These things happen in war" is literally just "did you not expect any personal consequences from being a wartime poster girl?" and it's great.

[@ismail-vn7lo]

Snow time is over and so that his advencer COIN can began his time , he decide to tell the truth

[@stevem2323]

That doesn't mean anything really, her sister died acidentally.

[@shaynemhopkins]

@@stevem2323 lots of people die accidentally in war via stray bullets and bombs it’s still part of war.

[@stevem2323]

@@shaynemhopkins Yeah? What that has to do with this?

[@firstname4337]

no

[@edra2005]

"Don't Lie to me, I have no use for Liars, what are Lies but attempts to conceal weakness" - Dr. Gaul to Snow 65 years prior

[@kiaheat1920]

Aged like the finest of wine! *chef kisses in Italian*

[@princessazulaofthefirenati5870]

​@@kiaheat1920 *Double* *Chef's* *kiss*

[@natureseeker9122]

"Oh my dear Miss Everdeen, I thought we agreed never to lie to each other." That line is genius. He is reminding her he'd never lie, and he is also calling her out, because she knows deep down Snow is right about Coin, but just doesn't want to accept the truth.

[@hfztt]

Sutherlands delivery of that line (and the whole scene in general) is just perfection. I keep returning to this clip just to enjoy a master at the top of his craft.

[@OsamaBinLooney]

the dynamic between Snow and Katniss is great i wish they had made Catching Fire into 2 movies and not the 3rd one

[@shwheat6315]

Snow wanted Katniss dead all along and tried to kill her many time but failed but on the other hand Snow is very honest and fair especially when he made promise not to lie to each other

[@cashewnuttel9054]

You know what's ingenious? How the fudge did he know she picked a flower? - the bush was covering his view when he said "that's a nice one", - her back was towards him, she was covering his view of the flower, - again, bushes were covering her lower half including her hand, from his perspective. Mistakes like this annoy the heck out of me because they should be easily spotted and fixed. A simple solution would have been that he was walking towards her, and as soon as he gets a clear view of the flower then he could have given his comment.

[@lukerosales5879]

Katniss was in denial when Snow told her. But the two things that made her realise he never lied were that - the bombing that took Prim's life was based on a trap that Gale himself had designed, and the whole point of the rebellion was to stop the Hunger Games altogether but Coin pushed for one last Hunger Games but using the kids from the Capitol instead.

[@gorrow1990]

For being an evil dictator it’s interesting that he doesn’t believe in lying.

[@xavier2435]

Yeah how could a man in his position not ever lie

[@alexanderboleyn2058]

I mean he lied about a lot of things, but when he makes a promise he never breaks it. That was the scary and heartbreaking thing about this scene: Katniss realized that Coin was the same or a worse version of Snow

[@andromeda5084]

He kinda reminds me of Thanos

[@gorrow1990]

Or Negan from TWD, having some type of code that he follows, though his actions are usually justifiable and he ends up becoming redeemable whereas Snow knew he was a dead man and wanted to drag Coin down with him.

[@antmagor]

He didn’t believe in lying to Her partly because of their agreement, and partly because he knew he didn’t have to. He knew full well what she thought of him, and I don’t think he believed in pretending in front of someone who knows better. Funny thing is when you listen to interviews Donald Sutherland Gave about Snow’s backstory about how behind the scenes snow actually considered Grooming Katniss as his heir before she became the Mockingjay. I think that’s another reason why he never lied to her, I think he considered her the only friend he ever truly had. And in a place as power-hungry as the capital she was the only person he could truly be honest with.

[@shadowhunter-mi5su]

"I don't believe you..." "Search your feelings you know it's true."

[@tristan4874]

shadowhunter 198 why does this have no comments 💀

[@tomasu301]

Because I am your father, lukkke

[@claymenefee6999]

@@tristan4874 because they quoted it incorrectly

[@sedlyholmes3722]

@@tomasu301 nuh uhhh

[@Atea1793]

This may have been the one time Snow had tried to do the right thing: by warning Katniss about who was the real threat...

[@ivandelev7135]

Or he knew he's gonna be dead soon and wanted to drag Coin with him.

[@OrkosUA]

@Lawrence Ausan Coin was not right to take power, but she was right about people who are too emotional to vote though...

[@hipdavinci5122]

At the very least he was insuring that another dictator would not replace him. At the most, he was sowing the seeds to stop the cycle of oppression

[@ARCtrooperblueleader]

@Atea1793 - Fact.

[@erzan]

It was motivated by vengeance, not justice.

[@jackhsu3458]

So many of us are here already, Goodbye, Donald Sutherland, thank you for your talent and your amazing performance as Snow. RIP

[@srami004]

Amen

[@seniorvac589]

will be loved forever

[@jonasbrothersrockist]

Rest in Peace

[@TheDarogn]

Coin used Katniss for as long as Katniss was useful for Coin. Once Snow was dead, Katniss would have most likely been the target.

[@soulstealer5625]

Coin had been gunning for Katniss almost immediately. Katniss was a loose cannon, only useful as a rallying point. Once she rallied enough support, martyrdom would have resolved the “problem” of Katniss.

[@moneypowerglory.]

Like Dany did to Jon.

[@therearefourlights6926]

@@soulstealer5625 Yes a martyr is such a useful tool, with no say in how it's used.

[@MisterL2_yt]

yeah I remember in the movies theybring in a dangerous Peeta in the final city assault in hopes he goes off on Katniss, which the security chief mentions to her. Also in the books I remember something vague about how Coin killed Prim intentionally to weaken Katniss' position, but it's been a while since I read them

[@thespianuzumaki5452]

Yup. She hated loose cannons like Katniss. She saw Katniss as a threat actually

[@JoshuaFagan]

I've always thought Donald Sutherland should have gotten an Oscar nomination for this role. He makes Snow so fascinating, so enigmatic.

[@KingdaToro]

The moment I saw that Hunger Games didn't even get nominated for COSTUME DESIGN of all things, I knew the Academy was going to completely ignore them.

[@amazingabby25]

He sets up so good for Songbird and Snakes

[@ahsokatano84]

He makes you want to know more about the character, like the backstory

[@akiraholland457]

Jennifer Lawrence deserved a nomination too

[@unknownchannel3141]

Indeed.

[@dominiccarrano9513]

"But, these things happen in war" I love how condescending that line is delivered. Almost as if Snow is saying, I warned you, you don't want to be in a real war. But you didn't listen to me

[@hauoliakua]

It's a warning. He's telling Kat that she was real target. He's also telling her civil war will happen again if Alma assumes power, because she's just like him. He has accepted his defeat, but he can still ensure that his true adversary -who he now knows to be Alma; doesn't win. Just because he has lost...doesn't mean Alma's won. Donald Sutherland just .... nails it.

[@AH-ph3cb]

If you read the latest book about his upbringing, he was in poverty due to the first civil war. He witnessed war firsthand with cannibalism, dead parents, and starvation at his youngest years. That's what makes this come full circle. She really was just in the games initially.

[@palmtreesmusic1945]

The war WAS justified to overthrow Snow's regime and bring about change.

[@paytonkraft7564]

@@palmtreesmusic1945 It was. So was the death of Alma Coin. The woman used Katniss as a rallying cry for the districts until the war had played its last and when she was no longer needed, she staged an attempt to murder the girl as a last-ditch effort by the capital. Snow did not deserve to keep his power, but Coin most certainly did not deserve to take it from him.

[@icecreamchick45]

Snow is the definition of a lawful evil villain. He believed in order and was willing to sacrifice children to maintain the order and the system, but he also wasn't unnecessarily cruel for the sake of cruelty. He clearly has a set of codes that he abides by and it's so interesting compared to Katniss's unwillingness to see the world as the pawns that the political powers have placed.

[@thedislikebutton3425]

Or Black - White (Orzhov) in Magic: the Gathering

[@mickys8065]

He fire bombed district 12 because the rebels broke his arena...

[@icecreamchick45]

@@mickys8065 right. He's clearly a bad person, I wouldn't argue against that. I'm saying that that is clear retribution against something. He saw all of that as a chess match that he thought he was going to win. Still very lawful evil

[@mickys8065]

@@icecreamchick45 ehh fair enough

[@connorkane1542]

Examples of other villain categories Lawful evil, Darth Vader, president snow, Davy Jones Neutral evil, Voldemort, ultron, jafar Chaotic evil, The joker, Jason

[@Edmonton-of2ec]

Ironic, isn't it. Snow, a very evil dictator in one of his last acts prevents the rise of a new dictatorship....... Life's funny sometimes.....

[@Diax1324]

Well, of course he'd want to spoil it for the one who defeated him - that and he happens to (likely) be correct about Coin.

[@Edmonton-of2ec]

Diax1324 Well, to be fair, it doesn't take a genius to notice that a dictator often replaces the previous dictator.....

[@ChiliSainz]

it’s likely because he knows his fate already and has nothing left to lose anymore, he intends to drag down the person that brought him down as well. he has also said that everyone knew the battle was over by that point and was ready to surrender, so he had no other point to fight back anymore. he also doesn’t seem to be careless or wreckless, so the only reasonable move to do in his situation was to bring down alma coin.

[@valterfara5027]

Didn't Franco do the same thing? He declared that the monarchy should return to Spain after he died, to not let anyone take his place.

[@Victuris]

And that's on accepting defeat

[@Arkalius80]

The thing I love about his last line there "we agreed never to lie to each other" on the surface sounds like he's trying to say "I'm not lying, because of our previous agreement." But in reality, he's really saying "I know you're lying and you do believe me, and we agreed not to lie to each other". Very clever.

[@MAnuscript421]

I always liked to think it was a combination of the two meanings.

[@jasonshaneyfelt1039]

He's simultaneously saying he's not lying while also calling out Katniss for lying. Really brilliant play on words.

[@Thraxraganharapollyus]

"We understand each other. I can see your soul, and I can feel it writhing because of your lies. I am here because I know how to read people through their actions and reactions. You are not the exception to this rule."

[@williamnjagi2388]

@@jasonshaneyfelt1039 what was Katniss's lie

[@jasonshaneyfelt1039]

@@williamnjagi2388 Katniss says she doesn’t believe him. He’s calling her out on that lie, because he knows deep down she does believe him.

[@metrozeegle4985]

Snow just pointed out the danger of revolutions: What’s the point to defeat the evil dictator only to replace it with another one ? In fact, a lot of dictators that were even worse than their predecessors seize power during revolutions !

[@adrianalexander6226]

It matters not what happens afterward sometimes, in some cases, the people have taken so much and lost so much they dont care at the moment what happens, while yes i totally agree though.

[@vanle3828]

Literally Hitler

[@sweetjohnson7800]

@@vanle3828 hitler didn't replace an evil dictator

[@anthonybousquet3590]

That’s literally the French Revolution in a nutshell.

[@haroldgodwinson2825]

That obviously is French Revolution Former Tyrant : (arguably ) King Louis XVI New Tyrant : Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte

[@birdbro6776]

I don't know why, but I love cordial villains. They to me always seem the most terrifying because the imagination clashes with itself in the sense that you don't know what truly is underneath the warm facade. You don't know how deep the darkness goes. I love it.

[@owenmaleski2203]

Snow also has one of my favorite villain archetypes, a villain you feel afraid of, and actually has the power to back up their menace but also has an understandable motive to their madness. Guys like Vader, Ledger's Joker, All for One, King Bradley. Snow was a guy that was cunning, ruthless and vindictive, and even when he was cornered he still had a card to play.

[@saphiriathebluedragonknight375]

@@owenmaleski2203 Snow is like Vader. Gets power through ruthlessness. Coin is like Palpatine. Gets power through manipulation.

[@hiswayservicesblog9288]

Yeah. You mean like Doctor Harrison Wells from the FLASH? That guy was SCARY patient, and seemingly scary compassionate. You can't help trusting him even though you know what he's done, and yet you know that nothing can fool him, that he has the upper hand. Tom Cavanagh was amazing as Dr. Wells.

[@LordofFullmetal]

And honestly, that's one of the things that makes me mad about Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. Firstly because no one was actually asking for that story. People wanted to know about the first games, or the games of their favourite victor - but not the 10th games and some random girl Snow was into. But assuming she wanted to write about Snow - you STILL don't get to learn how he became the person he was. Which is the most interesting part of him. She writes young Snow as a totally different person, and then just never bothers to explain what caused him to change so drastically. Unless we're supposed to believe Lucy was the sole factor, which I honestly don't because that's weak. Snow is such a strong villain, and I feel like the new book weakens him.

[@18skeltor]

@@LordofFullmetal Got any book recommends? 😅I've been reading too much nonfiction as of late, I want to enjoy myself :3

[@OwainDark]

I came here the minute I heard. This was my absolute favorite scene of Donald Sutherland. Rest In Peace legend.

[@seniorvac589]

Rest In Peace my legend

[@Amollion]

This was the true moment I fell in love with Snow, his character is perfect as an antagonist and he is one that honestly i find hard to hate. He does not wear a mask, he makes those around him know exactly what he is. He hates hypocrisy and deceit. That last line was beautiful "I thought we agreed never to lie to one another" Because as far as i can tell, Snow never did lie in the films

[@abigbutterstick1780]

I don't think those around him knew exactly who he was and what he was capable of when he poisoned them, great antagonist though

[@kethcup]

@@abigbutterstick1780 I believe it was common knowledge that he used poison on his opponents. Though, it was probably taken as fear mongering, much like what the government does today. How can one pick the truth out of so many lies?

[@abigbutterstick1780]

@@kethcup I don't think it was common knowledge, Finnick said it was one the secrets he collected

[@kethcup]

@@abigbutterstick1780 Not much of a secret if he knew about it.

[@abigbutterstick1780]

@@kethcup Finnick knew a lot of secrets

[@MylesMorell-yl9lo]

An honest enemy will always be better then a lying “friend”

[@asshti]

these scene was almost line for line in the book and it’s just so clear why... suzanne collins truly illustrated the complexity of being a human

[@shindean]

Actually in the books this was the scene where the ghost writer was admitting to the readers that they've been had. I loved every word of it and it's still just as honest here.

[@asshti]

shindean oh cool! thanks for clearing it up hehe

[@Diax1324]

@@shindean what?

[@shindean]

@@Diax1324 Didn't you wonder why the last book basically went all stupid and messed up all the themes it had set up? Ghost Writer, even President Snow told you it was stupid that a random bunch of kids would storm the capital first instead of an actual army.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@shindean Wtf are you talking about? Suzanne Collins's father fought in the Vietnam war. He never recovered. This was the serie's intention from the start.

[@corrinadavis9270]

This whole dialogue is fantastic, but I really love how Snow says, “I’m sure she wasn’t gunning for your sister, but these things happen in war.” He wasn’t saying it as an explanation for why Prim died, he’s saying it to describe Coin’s thought process and probably Coin’s own way of justifying her decision to kill those kids. In Coin’s head she never would’ve actually tried to kill Prim or any other children for that matter, but in war there’s always collateral damage so it’s technically not her fault. I feel like that line really sealed how truly delusional and psychopathic Coin actually was by expressing how psychopathic narcissists tend to twist words to benefit themselves. And to top it off, Snow can only say this about Coin because he’s also a psychopath but is not nearly as delusional - he understands exactly what her goals are and how she achieved them, because they’re not too different from his own. Incredible.

[@deltaray5647]

Coin and Snow are both Psychopaths this is true but that’s where their similarities end. Coin was a pathological liar and master manipulator who is not above killing children either which is why she 100% intended to kill the children just not prim. Snow is evil only when he has to maintain control over the districts and his own power as president however he is capable of genuine kindness as well like to his grandchildren and to to Katniss here. Coin is a pure snake

[@AH-ph3cb]

In the latest book, Snow grew up in war. He was starving, his parents were dead, he witnessed neighbors cannibalizing each other, wild dogs roamed the streets and almost killed him at five. Compared to Katniss's living conditions in 12 and the Games, he can justify it compared to living in war.

[@naturalone6529]

I love Snow’s cunning charisma. He’s definitely a bad person, and he’s well-aware of it, but he also has a certain moral code he won’t betray.

[@augustwinterman6952]

It also helps that, unlike Coin, Snow is neither delusional or stupid.

[@willback8513]

I think he sees the hunger games as a necessary evil. Not because he enjoys watching people suffer, but rather because he thinks that that's the only way to control the "barbaric" districts in his mind.

[@lorloretta_]

Snow might have been evil, but no one can deny that he was very interesting and cunning throughout the whole series.

[@sgtpaloogoo2811]

Being evil doesn't make you stupid.

[@uravirginwhocantdrive1400]

He was actually one of the best characters because he was such a great villain (something MCU villains should take note of) and Donald Sutherland masterfully brought that character to life with his fantastic acting.

[@hiswayservicesblog9288]

@@sgtpaloogoo2811 Eh. That's debatable.

[@scholaroftheworldalternatehist]

Evil is subjective. There is no absolute evil

[@18skeltor]

@@hiswayservicesblog9288 "your brain gets smart but your head gets dumb" SO MUCH TO DO SO MUCH TO SEE SO WHAT'S WRONG WITH TAKING THE BACKSTREETS? YOU NEVER KNOW IF YOU DON'T GO YOU'LL NEVER SHINE IF YOU DON'T GLOW HEY NOW--

[@hellboy6507]

Coin is the same as Snow. Its almost like she's just another side of _the same Coin_ Get it?

[@thespianuzumaki5452]

Lesser of the two evils, more like

[@koalaapoc]

Thespian Uzumaki lesser? how so? she wanted to do the exact same thing snow did but uno reverse card and have the children of the capital do the hunger games.

[@thespianuzumaki5452]

@@koalaapoc She played it very well. Nobody got to know her motives, until the end, when Snow tells Katniss that he didn't bomb the people and after that, Coin calls for a "symbolic " hunger games. Coin was the one who wanted to make Snow look so bad by bombing the people, that she almost succeeded, if it wasn't brought to Katniss' attention, by Snow, and the promise they made each other : To never lie when they speak. She was definitely the lesser of the two evils, as she hid her motives and played her cards very well

[@lilirodriguez8851]

Thespian Uzumaki She wasn’t lesser. She was the same or even worse than Snow. Snow never lied about his motives and his beliefs, he was truthful to the games and the tradition and who he is. Coin manipulated and only used Katniss to her advantage, lying, acting like she was helping when she just wanted to replace Snow and his role

[@thespianuzumaki5452]

@@lilirodriguez8851 Which makes her 'lesser of the two evils'. She was a manipulative woman whereas Snow was outright and openly evil, which made it easier for her to manipulate her

[@gerardcollins6621]

Even though he was evil evil, President Snow was the best character of the trilogy in my opinion.

[@fbprofreestylers3053]

Who cares

[@bpsc9882]

@@fbprofreestylers3053 I do

[@cm01]

@@fbprofreestylers3053 KZbin comments aren't the best place to be if you don't care about random peoples' opinions.

[@KNIV3]

Very well casted too

[@jasonshaneyfelt1039]

@@KNIV3 Perfectly casted. I can't imagine anyone else as Snow.

[@kevinduke8928]

I love the last line “I thought we’d agreed not to lie to each other.” One of the best lines in a movie/book ever. It’s double reference is sometimes missed. On one hand he was assuring K that he was not lying to her. But in the same breathe he was also assuring her that he knew she doubted her own statement, “I don’t believe you”, thus making her a liar. “I thought we’d agreed to not lie to each other. And here you are lying to me right now because you don’t want to believe the truth.”

[@ningning101]

Snow is wearing the same shade of uniform he has in the academy

[@MrImastinker]

And when he killed Highbottom, beginning his murderous path to the top.

[@amasawasei6457]

Let’s not forget that in the book Katniss was physically scarred, burned and mentally disoriented and completely emotionally distraught. While I liked the movie I wish they did a better job of showing just how badly- physically and mentally- Katniss has been hurt. She spends the whole book essentially crippled from PTSD as well as a plethora of physical injuries and they hardly show either. Not only does it stray from the book but it’s also just unrealistic. It’s not just the Hunger Games but YA adaptations in general that constantly make the protagonist overpowered for no reason.

[@user-hl9ww3ml2m]

Amasawa Sei yeah that was one of my main problems with the final movie, after prim died they didn’t do as good a job of showing how broken she was

[@mcsmedia8081]

@@user-hl9ww3ml2m Might have been because of what it may have meant for the movie's rating if they went all out with that. Despite just how dark the story is and the world the characters live in, the movies are PG-13. That's quite an accomplishment all things considered. The Hunger Games is YA fiction, but it's subject matter is really dark and in some ways disturbing. Bringing that story to life on the big screen while keeping it PG-13 was no simple task.

[@user-hl9ww3ml2m]

Casual Linguistics yes but in terms of how she felt mentally there aren’t as many restrictions. For example, in the book, after prim’s death, she attempts suicide. They could have shown that in some way. They would have had to do it differently than in the book, probably, but they still could’ve done SOMETHING. In the book when they first go to the capitol to fight in the war, they are issued poison pills in case they’re captured. They could have included this in the movie and shown Katniss looking at the pill or something, showing that she wanted to take it. Just something small to show how she felt.

[@jinxpsmp181]

@@user-hl9ww3ml2m she was gonna swallow the pill after killing coin but was stopped by peeta in the movie

[@user-hl9ww3ml2m]

Janay Koopman was she? I remember that in the book but I don’t remember that being in the movie

[@jaycescanlon5927]

This scene is the answer to all questions regarding Katniss' decision in the end. Snow is as sadistic and sick as he is, but unfortunately he is no liar and a "man" to his word, although just as much a murderer. Coin, on the other hand, makes it seem like she's with you, but stabs you in the back and puts on this facade and "free the people" mask. Snow and Katniss were too busy hunting down one another that they missed the actual mole, Coin. She is a female version of a power-hungry President Snow, and it showed when she was just as eager for a final Hunger Games as Snow was for each and every annual Hunger Games. She had to die. She was dangerous, sneaky, manipulative, and she played Katniss like a pawn.

[@stateofopportunity1286]

This is why Republicans are mildly less evil than Democrats. At least you can see them gunning for you.

[@jaycescanlon5927]

@@stateofopportunity1286 Oof. I’m a Democrat. That was good 😂

[@kingorange7739]

@@stateofopportunity1286 who exactly are they gunning? U realize both parties are part of the same problem and both have become parasites to the United States

[@mattdecosto1103]

Aww man I'm a *COMMUNIST*

[@L_5050]

@@mattdecosto1103 same

[@jeffj2495]

RIP Donald Sutherland (1935 - 2024). Such a memorable actor, in so many roles.

[@oscararias7006]

RIP Donald Sutherland. This dialogue in particular, and his depiction of President Snow as a villain was Oscar-worthy. What an incredible actor. Such a loss ❤

[@m0nk3yg1rl]

The actor is brilliant

[@GeorgiaAndrea]

He’s Donald Sutherland. Duh. I wouldn’t expect any less when he’s the father of Jack Bauer.

[@robertbruce7772]

@@GeorgiaAndrea One of the best of his generation of actors. He had a great career!!!!!!

[@robertbruce7772]

@@GeorgiaAndrea One of the best actors of his generation

[@fixafix69]

@@GeorgiaAndrea why does his son have a different surname

[@GeorgiaAndrea]

@@fixafix69 You don't watch 24? Ever? Are you serious?

[@jimstoesz3878]

The relationship between Katniss and Snow reminds me so much of Clarice and Hannibal; a fierce mutual respect stretched taut over seething hatred and distrust.

[@uravirginwhocantdrive1400]

You nailed this comparison perfectly.

[@Thraxraganharapollyus]

So rarely do we come across such a dichotomy as these individuals that we cannot help but to compare them. I understood what you said, and I knew that it was going on. I just didn't have the words with which this might be conveyed. I thank you, Jim Stoesz, for this insight.

[@NicoLaak2005]

Thrax Apollyus They hate each other so much, I mean she though that killed her sister at first, but still remains calm and talks to him as if he was a friend sort of. That’s rare in movies so this is awesome

[@eora5142]

I thought the same watching this clip apart from the film... Mutual respect mixed with disgust, the more "powerful" of the two put is a situation of enprisonment, being honest with each other and the fact that snow alike dr lectern doesn't even try to hide his crimes but still earns a sort of dignity and respect for his intelligence and charisma... And these dialogue is almost as intense and disturbingly intimate as the ones in "the silence of the lambs", which is a great compliment.

[@jordiclaramonte3508]

@@eora5142 That's quite what ancient greeks termed as Aidos and Sebas. A mixture of veneration, shame, fear and deep respect. All that should lead to a genuine religious feeling that can be resumed as Eulabeia (careful attention to things and people. See Carl Kerenyi's work for more details.

[@LoafDV]

Donald Sutherland was perfect casting. As a veteran actor he did a masterful job, but was relatively unknown to young audiences, making his performance that much more chilling and believable. RIP.

[@thechineserussian]

I love the double meaning of "I thought we'd agreed never to lie to each other". 1) Snow isn't lying to Katniss about Coin bombing the children. 2) Katniss is lying to Snow that she doesn't believe him when deep down she knows he's right.

[@04nbod]

And the scene begins with her 'picking' the white rose. Showing that 2. is correct.

[@turnip9367]

Donald Sutherland did such an incredible job in his portrayal of President Snow. The mannerisms and cadence were exactly how I imagined them when I first read the books. He was a calculating villain, but he was always honest with Katniss because she saw her as his equal. In a way he followed a set of rules. While he was capable of committing great acts of violence, he only did it to uphold his world order, never for the sake of cruelty or spite. And even in defeat, he was humble. You can't say that about many other fictional villains. It's a crime he was only used for about 20 mins across the entire series, and another testament to Sunderland's incredible acting abilities that he was able to make a large impression with that short screentime.

[@z2yn]

One of my favorite casting choices. I'm excited for the new movie that's gonna come out. Snow, despite what he did, is one of my favorites. Even more so with the book. He's reverted to seeing Katniss sort of like Lucy Gray, his equal.

[@thesalanian]

I love how this series ends. It totally subverts the whole ‘YA- Heroic teen revolution’ by totally taking the romance out of the revolution and proving how dangerous and horrible it is.

[@cloudtx]

The romance does end up happening to its conclusion in the end though.

[@thesalanian]

@@cloudtx It's not even as much romance as it is 'two broken people settling down and trying to find peace in each other'

[@cloudtx]

@@thesalanian I mean, I don't disagree with the way you put it, still, there was an element of romance between those two throughout the movies.

[@peterparker9954]

Hunger games franchise is the last good blockbuster franchise that portrayed feminism well without being on the nose

[@sonerkamer2678]

It just shows how Peace can be put in such a gray area as it sometimes takes too many sacrifices in order to get to the point of a peaceful society. It’s a purpose and cause that the Rebellion installed, but to what cost? And what pieces of humanity is left; as the whole movement just mirrored all the things the Capitol has done. Just more in a brute and as Snow said “radical” way.

[@Tankallex]

Such a well written character, and the actor nailed the performance.

[@shipclip1092]

"We both know i'm not above killing children." takes on a whole new meaning in TBOSAS.

[@c.w.simpsonproductions1230]

Snow wasn’t lying when he told Lucy Gray that he killed his old self. He just lied about which version.

[@divergentthg7925]

Rest in peace Donald thank you for the character of snow

[@JLee-g6w]

He played this character with such intensity and strength. He will be missed.

[@xaoc6084]

Donald Sutherlands acting here is simply brilliant, the small nuances and the overall atmosphere of the scene always makes it rather memorable to me.

[@blue_musiclover7873]

RIP Donald Sutherland, the way you played Snow was brilliant. You will be missed.

[@VaneyAndrew]

I've come back to watch this scene several times over the last few months. Such an incredible actor. RIP Donald Sutherland

[@matthewnada913]

*_”Oh, Miss Everdeen, I thought we agreed never to lie to each other”_* Gives me goosebumps every time. While they were enemies there was still a respect for one another. Snow was realizing his mortality and he knew the only chance of stopping Coin was to make Katniss aware about her true intentions. I believe if this conversation between Katniss and Snow never happened I think Coin would’ve ascended to power and become worse than Snow

[@gupmali]

She wouldn’t be worse than snow was but she would be close and anything close to snow is still a loss for humanity.

[@ulascancakmak4051]

RIP Donald Sutherland, great actor. Though he played many important roles, he will always be remembered as elegant President Snow.

[@Tmp45632]

I love how that last line from Snow can be interpreted as her reminding him of their promise to prove he isn’t lying, and/or him calling her out for lying about not believing him.

[@pageachatter229]

I must say, Donald Sutherland utterly nailed this role. It's a role played so well, that you don't even see the actor. You just see the character.

[@Parasmunt]

He is from the older generation of actors. They don't make them anymore.

[@matts1392]

This scene was really well done. Snow is defeated. He's weak. He's sick. Katniss stands over him while he sits, implying her power over him. But it's an illusion. Despite his position, he's still the one in control. He's pulling the strings. Truth is his power here and as much as Katniss wants to deny him this power over her, she can't. She knows he's right, and he's still in control. Snow is playing the game but he isn't playing to win. That's not his goal. It's only to make sure that Coin doesn't win. And Katniss is his instrument.

[@im_flat]

He's actually been sick the whole time. He had ulcers in his mouth that made him cough up blood after he took a poison to make other people take poison and was too late on the antidote. It's a bigger sign that he's lost, in fact, because he's no longer in a position where he can hide this issue behind the Capitol's austere debauchery and his political office.

[@sunnysolaris23]

I think there's another level there, too. This is personal, especially against Katniss. He wants to make sure that when he goes down, he takes both Katniss and Coin down with him. He knew Katniss well, he knew what effect his words would have on her already unstable mental state. And I think he was pretty certain that her turning against Coin would not be without personal consequences. He could logically assume that Katniss trying to take down Coin would lead to her death aswell (by getting killed asap or executed later) or she would at least spend the rest of her life as a broken person in prison.

[@BangkokSpark]

@@sunnysolaris23 but it is also possible that Snow would like to see Katness, a heroine of his creation in some sense, shine the brightest and live on.

[@woodjacoodja9544]

Donald Sutherland just owning the whole franchise with his performance.

[@VegetaLF7]

Seriously, the man killed it as President Snow.

[@TrueCyberZ]

Today as of June 20th, 2024 We lost a great actor a great father and also a powerful dictator Rest in peace Donald Sutherland, its time you own your own real life capitol

[@mitchelanhalt5261]

It’s hard to imagine that we just lost Donald. Rest In Peace Mr. Snow.

[@sarahleah9530]

RIP Donald, aged 88. You did an amazing job playing President Snow ❤

[@nicktroisi6347]

I love that Snow and Katniss, these two characters who are the polar opposites of each other, who were raised differently yet grew up in the same class, have such great chemistry when they are on screen together and just going back and forth with the exchanges. It’s like watching poetry come to life

[@AH-ph3cb]

They were raised identical with the release of the new books. There are a lot of parallels, and shows why he's so cunning. He briefly lived in 12 and knew all the hiding spots Katniss later grows up to explore.

[@dafezz92]

The whole “…we agreed not to lie to each other” part was brilliant. How he delivered is chilling, love this exchange.

[@buxxi90]

"I'm sure she wasn't gunning for your sister" Then again, the book asks the question why she was on the frontlines at all. A teenage medic, still in training. Someone must have pushed to put her where she was. There was no reason to send her there, except perhaps to provoke a dramatic moment for TV.

[@TrelliessRose]

Did you know it aired live?

[@ErikCarlson-en4vz]

At least Coin payed for it in the end anyway

[@guter6534]

He knew she would spare his family while Coin wouldn't. He was a smart man indeed.

[@Diamondbraclet]

One of the greatest actors in history. I think the first movie I saw him in was Klute and I knew he was destined for good things . So sorry to hear of his passing. RIP

[@madelyn06565]

The fact that I'm here after reading The Ballad Of Songbirds And Snakes is emotionally bruising

[@sharknadoman1015]

RIP Donald Sutherland! Legendary villain played by an equally legendary actor.😢

[@Neurodivergent-j1f]

Here after the passing of Donald Sutherland. No one else could have played the complexities of Snow as well as he did. Rest In Peace to a wonderful thespian

[@teleprompt]

I'm surprised she didn't kill Snow here.

[@eggyrepublic]

He was already defeated, his execution is probably planned already.

[@exnihilo2601]

She didn't kill him because she knew he was telling the truth.

[@Onigirli]

@հokцƽ ρokus Books are for geeks

[@nippy7425]

Edriss Scofield this probably a joke 🤷‍♂️

[@kxmode]

@@Onigirli Books are for knowledge. You know the films are only a fraction of the books.

[@Jennifer-z6c]

He plays the character so well. No body could have played that role better.

[@onyxtopaz7998]

A brilliant scene.

[@FantasyGirl365]

It’s one of my favorites

[@WarGrowlmon18]

As twisted as Snow was, I believed him. He never lied to Katniss, he never had to. In the books it was even clearer that Coin was up to something, Katniss never truly trusted her.

[@sunnysolaris23]

That's why this scene is so powerful. He's still spitting poison, knowing full well that no lie or manipulation in this moment could have been as damaging as the truth.

[@kurtpunchesthings2411]

​@@sunnysolaris23exactly He's subtly telling Katniss yes I have been defeated and you will be tasked with my execution but I'm already a dead man you have a bigger problem then me coin will take my place you wanted the hunger games to end when your time comes you know what to do

[@illumi9044]

My favorite quote from the whole series " Oh my dear Mrs. Everdeen, I thought we'd agreed never to lie to eachother ", b/c it shows how much Snow had gotten into her head and they both knew it, she was only kidding herself, and now they both knew what she was going to do.

[@kingkongchief1177]

I love how Snow is the first one to tell Katniss he’s sorry about her sister’s death. Snow lost his sister in the first civil war so he knows how that feels. Even the most evil people can have some good in them.

[@MadKingOfMadaya]

*_"Oh my dear Miss Everdeen, I thought we agreed never to lie to each other." He's basically saying "I know you're lying" when she said she didn't believe him_*

[@syruscoy1244]

double whamming. He could be saying "I'm not lying" or "Don't lie to me/yourself" either way, its true

[@nine-xs6nc]

.....yeah that's the point

[@GR-zu7qi]

snow hates losing. it’s apparent throughout all the original 3 books and song birds and snakes. so his last act was ensuring that he got some small win.

[@joewhitehead3]

Even when he loses, he still wins

[@KeltonTitan]

So that was why he was deviously smiling

[@alex-uu2hq]

*“I’ve been watching you, and you watching me. I’m afraid we’ve both been played for fools.”* The moment everything became clear. Haunting words.

[@nikkiej.5875]

Even though he’s a villain, not once has he ever lied to Katniss.

[@JabamiLain]

He learned his lesson from Lucy Gray. Lying is more unpredictable than truth. Therefore, truth is better.

[@halyketarrant]

God, 1:59 always sends shiver down my spine. One of the best villain ever written, on of the best performances of 2010/2020 decade. Sutherland is a master.

[@Chaoticgoodcryptid2319]

Rest in peace Donald Sutherland. Thanks for your amazing performance as snow

[@oliverbulus7181]

RIP Sir Donald Sutherland, your potrayal as President Snow is remarkable.

[@philipc7599]

Donald Sutherland has just died. He was 88 years old. He was also in Pride & Prejudice. Rest in peace, Donald. You will be forever missed.😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔 1935-2024

[@ghostdreamer7272]

The whole "we agreed not to lie to each other..." I wonder if Snow made that agreement in the first place due to how lies ruined his relationship with Lucy Gray. He probably justified "if I never lied to her, then..."

[@jackalmighty3840]

R.I.P. Donald Sutherland, I don't know a person who could've played your roles better. You always played your roles intellectually, and you lived a full life, longer than most; however, we were not ready for your departure. I am so sad that you're gone. I don't think anyone is big enough to fill the immense boots you once wore. You'll always be my favourite.

[@futuremovieactor]

Even without reading the prequel yet, the depth that Coriolanus dropped to become the dictator we know Snow to be is beyond staggering and fascinating. His seeing so much of Lucy Gray in Katniss is insanely informative too. He submitted to the hatred that Gaul instilled in him to avoid feeling that pain and it's ultimately something he could never truly rid himself of in the end.

[@cazyjohn2005]

makes one wonder why he really went to District 12.

[@futuremovieactor]

@@cazyjohn2005 Well it's clear from seeing the movie now that he did want her, but his desire to save his own good name and control everything to assure order also overwhelmed that and made him stop being Coriolanus and fully embrace becoming Snow.

[@cazyjohn2005]

@@futuremovieactor i was talk about donald sutherland's snow.him stop being Coriolanus and fully embrace becoming Snow sound like vader

[@futuremovieactor]

@@cazyjohn2005 He's basically Vader who wasn't really tricked into embracing the Dark Side: he willingly accepted it knowing full well what it would cost him to do so instead.

[@cazyjohn2005]

@@futuremovieactor that is only different between him and vader. i do think both had regret.

[@DennisBell-tz2sb]

I have watched Mr. Sutherland for over fifty years and he goes from Oddball to German Spy (Eye of the Needle which is one of my favorite books of all time) to an oppressive Prez trying to simply say alive. WOW!! Seems he past his strength on to Kiefer.

[@robertbruce7772]

Kieffer is probably the best actor of his generation, which basically means the brat pack. Brad Pitt came a bit later than those guys(gals).

[@shiozza]

"did you know it aired live, there's a particular savvy in that isn't there" That line hits

[@namelastname8471]

What does it mean?

[@HiccupandToothless]

@@namelastname8471 i suppose it’s ironic because the Capitol enjoyed seeing district children murdering each other while getting filmed, and the Capitol children were recorded getting killed ?

[@petery6432]

@@namelastname8471 In the book he says that "You can see Plutarch's hand in there", further incriminating the rebels

[@namelastname8471]

@@petery6432 ah okay I must’ve forgotten that detail. Thank you!

[@TB_Cinema]

This is Snow’s (Sutherland’s) best scene. He plays this out so well. His final line is perfect and with the smile, you know he has Katniss’ mind whirling.

[@sierrameyer7077]

came here on the day donald sutherland passed to rewatch one of my favorite scenes he was ever a part of, he was incredible

[@Sigma0283]

"Oh, my dear Miss Everdeen. I thought we'd agreed never to lie to each other." Even villains tell the truth from time to time.

[@MatthewJohnson-fs7pl]

He’s not the villain though.

[@AndrewMacLaine]

Rewatching the Snow scenes. I really appreciate that he wasn't played as the typical cold, stone-faced villain with a British accent. He smiles, moves his head around, and manipulates using charisma.

[@guillermofernandez1047]

RIP Mr Sutherland you gave us a great character.

[@edsr164]

In one sweep move he ensured Coin’s death! What a masterful player!

[@kerenacosta6946]

This hits way different after The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. Snow and Lucy Gray Baird had a very dishonest relationship with each other, and that haunted Snow to his death. Couple that with the lessons Dr. Gaul thought him, no wonder he agreed to keep the relationship between Katniss and himself honest.

[@joewhitehead3]

I think you’re right

[@kbasyt]

‘do you know it aired live? there’s a particular savvy in that isn’t there..’ still sends a chill down your spine. it was katniss’ moment of realization. snow never lied. rest in peace beloved DS

[@jenniferteichgraber3644]

Thank you Donald Sutherland for playing as president coriolanus snow and you will always be remembered. Rest in peace

[@emperorrevan6992]

There is no doubt in Suzanne Collins’ ability to write a good antagonist.

[@Nikifuj908]

I love the last exchange, because it has a double meaning. Katniss: “I don’t believe you.” Snow: “I thought we’d agreed never to lie to each other.” (1) Snow knows she really believes him, at least a little. (2) He also reminds her of the agreement they made in _Catching Fire_ .

[@Ish51839]

Love the use of colour in this scene. Idk why but, to me, it makes this scene look so gorgeous. The deep red jacket and red blood he coughs, then the white flowers and white shirt. Just stands out so much to me, not sure why, but it looks so unique and completely different to the rest of the movie

[@Pellaeon4587]

Rest in peace, mr. Sutherland. Your performances were (and still are) amazing and we will cherish them!

[@shannoncain8377]

i think one bit the book adds to prim's death is that Katniss realised that a 14 year old medic would have had to have had permission to be in the capitol. the book very much infers that Coin deliberately killed Prim in order to have Katniss on her side because Katniss would have thought it would have been a Capitol hovercraft

[@sunnysolaris23]

Which showed on the other hand that Coin was even more cruel and cold-blooded that a ruthless man like Snow thought her capable off. Damn...

[@iforgotthenamemate]

i was just reading about him on wiki and returned to this scene. Donald had so many memorable roles over the years but this one always was my favourtie. I'm very devastated by his passing but i'm glad i can watch him till my time comes.

[@honigbienenblob]

"We both know I'm not above killing children" This hits even harder after the new book

[@AM-id5ry]

What new book?

[@megb274]

Klipxgate a ballad of songbirds and snakes