The HYPOCRISY of the Baseball Hall of Fame

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

Thank you for watching! If you liked the video, please consider liking, leaving a comment, or subscribing to the channel!

[@bradhorowitz2765]

I do have to disagree a bit with you. 1)I don’t think Fred McGriff is a hall of famer; for a guy with a lotta home runs, his overall statistical career is really underwhelming 2)I mean yeah the media liking yku is gonna be an advantages as you pointed out. But I think the hall has elected players who the sportswriters didn’t really like like Ty Cobb. But admittedly it’s rare. 3)saying bonds and Clemens should get in because bud selig was dosnt really hold up when you consider the serious allegations made against the two regarding their personal relationships; those enough warrant no vote. Although I’d say that bud did more to damage the game than Roger and Barry ever did. 5)Sammy sosa yes was important, and you can’t tell the story of baseball without him, but does that warrant induction? Well, I’d say not exactly. There are many players that I can’t tell the story of baseball but whoose careers weren’t hall of fame worthy. Combined with sosa’s surprising underwhelming career stats in advanced stats, I’d say that he dosnt deserve induction.

[@mikekeeler6362]

What are they going to put Al Oliver Dave Parker and Joey Bell in the Hall of Fame they definitely belong

[@mikekeeler6362]

What are they going to put Al Oliver Dave Parker and Joey Bell in the Hall of Fame they definitely belong

[@sanjuan100100]

HOF is not about players carriers anymore, it is about writers preference. Guys that never ever played baseball .

[@mikekeeler6362]

@@sanjuan100100 this is true but now the veterans committee consists of five or six players sportswriters and some other baseball people who should be doing the voting

[@vicarious4231]

Those same baseball writers that gave bonds 7 mvp awards are now acting nervous to elect him in the Hall? I find it hilarious that when bonds was helping mlb with their ratings, Selig was as quiet as a church mouse. But once he retired, the league turned their back on him.

[@yell0wberry]

…. not to mention, they put the POS of a commissioner in the Hall of Fame as well.

[@kwanwhitner7462]

Well said smh 🤦

[@kwanwhitner7462]

The hof is a joke well right now. Well I think so anyway.

[@paysonfox88]

And don't even get me started about the three MVP awards that Bond's got before he took steroids in 1998. And all the gold gloves, and all the 40 steals seasons. He had a 40-40 season 1 year.... That's literally not been replicated since. He hit a batting average over 360 one season, that wasn't steroids. I see there's a very good argument for putting a guy in the Hall of Fame if, you cut his stats in half, and he still borderline Hall of Fame. There's nobody that can tell me that Barry bonds was twice as good as he should have been because of steroids. Steroids give you maybe 10%, 25% Max

[@kwanwhitner7462]

@paysonfox88 Yes sir I see it all the time he was great without rod's . Was I meda friendly no it doesn't matter smh ..

[@jimwerther]

I've said forever - decades, literally - that Bonds and Clemens only started using because Selig let it run rampant throughout the league. As I said to ESPN radio overnight host Jason Smith many years ago, "Fight The Real Enemy" - Selig.

[@yell0wberry]

Can’t fight that guy anymore, that guy is fighting to change his own diaper

[@adamrichmond6348]

If you cant beat em join em right? This is what got bauer in so much troubke when no one would listen to him about the sticky stuff. So he used it for an inning to prove a point. Still no one listened so he used it fkr a year and won a cy young and got a huge pay day just to throw it in their face.

[@marciamolumby8935]

the federal goverment spent million trying to prove Clemens used steroids - and FAILED

[@CHICAGOKID-773]

Sammy sosa has been treated so wrong by the media & the cubs organization. They literally just got called out a week ago for not having Sammy come back to Wrigley to honor him. He is the reason why I watch and love baseball and the cubs. Growing up in Chicago during that era was something special. My father worked across the street from Wrigley and would tell me how crazy Wrigleyville would get when sosa would score a HR. The fact that he is not mentioned or honored by the mlb or cubs is a travesty. He is all about the people & gave fans joy to watch baseball.

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

My grandpa was a lifelong Cubs fan, and one of his prized possessions was a Sosa rookie card we gave him for his birthday one year. He had it on display at his house until the day he died. He meant so much to the fans there

[@CHICAGOKID-773]

@@TheDiamondBaseball Wow I’m sorry for you lost. That’s a great story. My grandfather is a die hard cubs fan as well and I remember as a kid growing up watching cubs games and Sammy. Hopefully we get to see him walk on the field at Wrigley again. He deserves it.

[@Wanderlust598]

McGwire and Sosa saved baseball. They also conducted themselves well during the race

[@vincentramirez8188]

Off topic but I don’t even recognize Sammy now. My goodness he had his skin bleached and looks so different.

[@djbeezy]

I was at the game when Sammy hit number 600. When the schedule came out that season I saw that the Cubs were coming to Texas. I bought 2 tickets for every game of that series for me and my dad for Father's day the day tickets went on sale. I had no idea we would get to witness history at the time. We were sitting in the upper deck of the stadium and as soon as Sammy made contact one guy close to us screams "HE DID IT!!" and we all stood up and watched the ball clear the wall. I even snapped the perfect photo. Sammy is fully extended and you can see the ball streaking off his bat. Such a great memory.

[@brandoelee6161]

🧢

[@teen_laqueefa]

@@brandoelee6161 good memories

[@martyf3531]

In 1998, when Bonds hit his 400th HR to go with his 438 SB, become the first (and only) member of the 400/400 club, he had less then a dozen writers reporting on it. So he got jealous and bulked up and started hitting the HRs the "fans, writers and MLB" wanted.

[@toddsands6000]

As a baseball fan at that time, I'm not going to pretend that I was appalled by Barry Bonds hitting all of those homeruns back in 2001. I was super excited when Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa was hitting homeruns back in 1998. Heck, dugouts were glued to the TV sets watching updates of McGwire and Sosa. I'm still a baseball fan, but I don't have the same passion I had with the game as I used to. I just simply review game footage, stories and check standings online now.

[@lovedavantlamour301]

@@toddsands6000yeah well , that’s a you thing pal , because any fan of Major League Baseball born after the ‘94 strike has had to jump through more hoops and fight a lot harder to watch the sport than anyone who spent their formative / young adult years in the midst of life before the death of monoculture , which featured NBC’s games of the week , dollar dogs and 10 dollar tickets in prime foul ball souvenir territory , the sweet sounds of bill white / Phil rizzuto / etc. B.Y ( before the Yankee Entertainment and Sports Network ) , Howard Cosell aka the Walter Cronkite of televised athletics , and your Harry Carays , Vin Scullys , and all the other brilliant radio voices … you say you aren’t as passionate about the game anymore , we as true believers in our nation’s pastime say goodbye and good riddance 👍🏾

[@toddsands6000]

@@lovedavantlamour301 You're not concise from your statement. Baseball fans after '94 did not have to jump through more hoops and fight harder to watch the sport. Are you talking about paying for tickets to watch games? Or are you explaining about watching the game of baseball by other means (TV). Fans after '94 have had much better options to watch baseball than fans from back in the day. Baseball meant the world at one point. I remembered when news outlets would briefly go live and briefly monitor Pete Rose at bat when he attempted to close in on Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak. That was once America's pastime! Baseball through ESPN attempted to restore the magic when Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa were hitting all of them HRs; however, their accomplishments were not even close to the coverage Pete Rose had when he was gunning for Dimaggio's hitting streak. I remembered that much. You have every right to express your opinions, but honestly, you're way out there somewhere in left field. Then you're talking about personalities dating prior to '94. Be specific on explaining yourself. You want to talk about Phil Rizzuto, you're talking to a Yankees fan that watched games on WPIX from back in the day. And I also watched plenty of Mets games on WOR too. And on top of that, Harry Caray the great Cubs sports commenter you mentioned was known because the Chicago Cubs were on TV throughout the nation on regular TV. At least when I was living in the NY area. Despite being a Yankees fan, I was well aware that the Chicago Cubs were considered America's team. So, I don't need some type of history lesson from you of all fans. You want to tell me it's a "you thing," fine. I'm just expressing my opinions. But don't sound off as if baseball is America's pastime. It was once upon a time; it isn't anymore! However, it isn't anymore, now is NFL football. If you don't see that, what can I say, that's a "you thing" back at you pal. You can thank your personal god Bud Selig for making MLB second rate to NFL Football. He hurt the game more than any commissioner that ever represented MLB. On top of that, that dude was elected in the MLB Hall of Fame? For what? And for your information, even the legendary Howard Cosell stated from the early 1980's that NFL football would surpass MLB baseball. Keep holding on to your sacred opinions buddy. The 1994 baseball strike has hurt baseball to this day. Not my problem if you can't see that.

[@lovedavantlamour301]

@@toddsands6000 forgive me for losing my patience with you , it is difficult putting up with the likes of you every single day , because every day fans of baseball are bombarded with claims of the rapture and rob manfred being the anti christ . Baseball has , according to people who claim to know what they’re talking about , been ruined by everything from the pitch clock , to nike manufacturing the uniforms , to the ubiquity of players flipping their bats after home runs , and quite literally 100s of other reasons that are beginning to make me sick having to read and hear this bullshit over and over again . Baseball was ruined by the ‘94 strike , are you fcking kidding me man ? Get a grip dude 😂 as I said if you don’t like what you’re seeing please exit stage left

[@formulahank1250]

For Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa, it’s about them beating “sacred” numbers. Bonds holding the HR record will always make purists upset. Same goes for Clemens’s Cy Young record and Sosa breaking Maris’s record. Meanwhile guys like Ortiz slip under the radar because they were approachable for the media, and they don’t have their names thrown into these vitriolic conversations about “who really holds the record”

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

Yeah, and I think that’s what this really comes down to. Steroids aren’t talked about nearly as much in other sports, and it’s mainly because users broke the “sacred” records in MLB. I imagine that if it came out that LeBron was using for the past five years or so, we would probably see a similar outrage in reaction in the NBA.

[@csnide6702]

no.... its because they were CHEATERS.... Ortiz is in because he was a red sock.... NOT because of his (limited) ability.

[@sengle928]

Purists wish there was no baseball East of St Louis and no dark-skinned players.

[@54raynor]

I don’t think that’s the case for Clemens, since he doesn’t actually hold any sacred records and in all honesty probably has the correct number of Cy Young Awards in his career (albeit not for the correct seasons). The big issue with Clemens has to do with the false media narrative that formed around him in the mid-1990s in his last days in Boston. Then-GM Dan Duquette claimed he didn’t re-sign Clemens because he was in the twilight of his career, despite the fact that he led the league in strikeouts that season and was only two years removed from being arguably the best pitcher in the AL at the time of the strike. A pissed-off Clemens signed with Toronto and had one of the most dominant seasons of his career at age 34. The next season was not as dominant, but still great. Clemens was then traded to the Yankees, where his performance was decidedly overvalued but still quite good. The earliest allegations of steroid usage for Clemens are from prior to the 1998 season, when Clemens was an excellent starter yet demonstrably worse than the year before. If anything, it’s a reminder that PEDs aren’t magic potions.

[@somedude1901]

Plain and simple: many players have taken steroids and Bonds’ career numbers are still so stratospherically more impressive than anything that’s ever been done in the sport. As long as Bonds is not in the HOF, it’s an illegitimate institution in my opinion

[@tedlarfer7475]

Well put agreed 💯

[@brettlawlor8921]

Whatever side of the argument you fall on, you have to be consistent in your beliefs. If you don't believe Bonds and Clemens belong in the Hall of Fame, fine, but neither does Selig.

[@FSamuels20]

Also the managers who benefited from players taking ped’s

[@peterhingle6587]

Without a doubt, Dick Allen was held back by his relationship with the media. But you also have to look at when Allen was on the ballot. His case is really built on modern analytics His traditional counting stats are not HOF type numbers. When he was on the ballot in the 80s and 90s, those stats that make his case either didn't exist yet or were not cared about. This is what is also holding him back on the Veteran's Committee. Those members tend to be older and generally don't use modern analytics. And none of them were members of the media.

[@JD-hc1sr]

Sosa’s corked bat also played big into his overlooking and solidified his PEDs use in the minds of many

[@VegeMaticPragtarian]

Great video. Really have done a 180 with the steroids guys in recent years. The players who saved baseball deserve to be in the hall, not the commissioner who let them take the fall. Hope Bonds and Clemens get in soon

[@swilliams21231]

Bud Selig and David Ortiz being in the Hall of Fame takes any legitimacy out of the steroid argument.

[@GeraldM_inNC]

Big Papi is a big problem, because it says that it's OK to have been a PED abuser as long as you're likeable. To be honest, my guess is that Ortiz would never have hit like that without PEDs whereas Ramirez might well have been great without them.

[@swilliams21231]

@@GeraldM_inNC agreed. And there is a stark contrast to Papi on the Twins before the PEDs and Papi on the Red Sox after the PEDs. He was a completely different person. Whereas Bonds went from the makings of one of the greatest players of all time with the Pirates to arguably the best hitter of all time with the Giants.

[@notreallyadog9646]

@@swilliams21231 Not true at all, and I don’t know where this urban legend comes from. Ortiz was hitting bombs as a Mariners minor leaguer even before going to the Twins. The Twins did not know how to use Ortiz and kept forcing him to try and be a station to station hitter. Regardless of that, and even with some injuries earlier in his career. Ortiz progressed forward in increasing his power and stats when he was given consistent play. The Twins just had no place for him. Once he got to the Red Sox, Ortiz was given the green light to swing away, and also made the regular DH a couple of months into the 2003 season (before he was splitting time with Jeremy Gianni). Once that happened, Ortiz developed into the HoF player he always had the potential to be, but who was mis-used by the Twins early on.

[@Tonyconstanza]

@@notreallyadog9646thank you context matters why do all these people leave out all this context ? Do they simply not know this information you just gave

[@seveng1147]

@@GeraldM_inNCright let’s pretend Sosa wasn’t literally caught with a corked bat (not that it really makes a difference but it’s still cheating) I’m a Yankee fan and know the “alleged” positives on Ortiz were bullshit Sosa showed he wasn’t above breaking the rules besides steroids

[@impeachemall693]

The baseball HOF is an absolute joke as they let anyone in these days. Don't follow this crap anymore! They have ruined it!

[@jonathanmouton1457]

Too many joe Jackson haters.

[@donpietruk1517]

Thank you for this video. You succiently mirror my arguments, as well as my evolution of views, on this matter. And what you said about the impact of media perspective on a players induction is spot on. I'm a Detroiter and was always worried that the great pitcher Jack Morris, the winningest pitcher for over a decade in MLB, would never get inducted. He had a prickly relationship with the media throughout his career and I always felt this worked against him during the induction process. This is despite both regular season success and post season success with the Tigers and the Blue Jays. I'm glad Jack finally got in. Now we need to work on getting Sweet Lou Whittaker in, who had better lifetime offensive and defensive statistics than either HOF players Ryne Sandberg and Ozzie Smith, and was part of the longest running double play combo in history with his HOF shortstop partner Alan Trammel.

[@oscartango2348]

You are 100% correct. The steroid era was the most exciting and popular time in baseball history, and everyone knew then that players were juicing, and nobody cared. Bud Selig certainly didn't care, until after he got a decade of great baseball and could afford to throw a few players under the bus. Players do PED's today, with much more refined use to avoid detection. Our bodies produce these naturally, so it will always be impossible to test completely if someone is enhancing. Also drop the baseball writers from Hall of Fame all together, that's a total joke. Having 100 year old twerps making decisions is the same problem our government is having. Let only players decide. The fact is players have always enhanced and tried to cheat, hell in the 70s they had bowls of amphetamines for players in the clubhouse, then freaked out when they realized hey were doing blow. The US is a ridiculously hypocritical country, and baseball just reflects that stupidity, but it's about time we changed it. Baseball has never been pure, and nobody cares.

[@perezrosendo1]

Bonds and Clemens were first ballet Hall of Famers before steroids. Bonds was going to hit 500 home runs without roids, plus people forget he stole over 500 bases, something we will probably never see again. Someone in the 500/500 club. Roger Clemens was going to win 300 games by the end of his career and was dominant before roids.

[@paraisoinformativo]

Excellent video. I have been saying the same thing for years. Hypocrisy to the fullest. Writers want players to be sucking up to them, that’s why Albert Belle didn’t win AL MVP in 1995 after his historic 50 HR-50 2B season. The same reason why Jeff Kent, Dick Allen and the rest of the players you mentioned have not garnered support on their candidacy. Some will never garner support, unfortunately.

[@AllStarBugler]

How about this: The Hall of Fame is now and forever closed for admission. Nobody can be elected anymore. Nobody else is worthy.

[@Skinnyd4]

Here's what I think: Barry didn't start using until at the earliest, 1999. I say that because when Sosa and McGwire we're chasing the Maris record in 1998, both guys were enhanced, and Selig just ignored it. Barry figured that, "Hey, if they can do it." He didn't count in his status as baseball's most hated man coming into play and the rules that didn't apply to Sosa and McGwire applied to him at least tenfold. And as for the Steroid Era guys not being Hall of Famers, I feel like the voters did that to prove a point, though in my opinion, letting Craig Biggio in all by himself the year he was on the ballot with those guys would have achieved that.

[@csnide6702]

but it took them 2 years to let Biggio in --- his 1st year eligible they voted in nobody that year.

[@Diggerdog2nd]

Thank you for this video. The first one of many that comes to my mind is Albert Belle. No roids just the writers hate him & probably for good reason. He was a jerk but it's the Baseball HOF not the nice guy HOF. His numbers on the field are a no brainer first time inductee. He had 10 great years of being one of the most feared hitters in b ball. If not for a bad hip that had his HR's down his last year & made him retire at 33 years old he would have had at least another 5 years & ended his career over 600 HR's no doubt.

[@notreallyadog9646]

There’s literally a character clause in the voting rules for the HoF: “5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.” There’s an argument to be made that Belle fails on the integrity, sportsmanship, AND character clauses. He clotheslined players on the bases; put himself regularly above his teams; and has been arrested for DUI, exposing himself, and trying to run down children trick or treating with his car.

[@demonkingbadger6689]

To be fair, guys like Belle get hurt for a lack of longevity.

[@TRivera13]

@@notreallyadog9646 As opposed to guys like Ty Cobb and Cap Anson?

[@csnide6702]

he also got caught with a corked bat.

[@psalm49]

Albert Belle hated being walked. correct me if I am wrong but Belle is the only slugger to have 50+ doubles and 50 homers in a single season.

[@Jason-hq1mk]

Take Bud out of the Hall. Put Dwight Evans in.

[@bakker25]

its just ridiculous to keep THE BEST player ever out. that's it, that's all.

[@AndThatsBaseball]

More BOBBY ABREU’S Less BUD SELIG’S

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

Scott Rolen getting in is a great start

[@deepmarineproductions982]

Congrats to Scott Rolen!!

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

So happy for him!

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

About time His stats are undeniable

[@chriscampbell3417]

No discount for Scott Rolen! He’s a HOF both for the Cardinals AND now MLB. Well deserved

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

One of the few times I’ve been happy about one of my videos becoming instantly outdated lol

[@chrisweidner4768]

Indeed. Only Scott and Mike Schmidt have more than 300 HRs and 8 gold gloves at 3rd base. Ever. Scott has the 3rd most defensive runs saved at 3rd. Ever.

[@GeraldM_inNC]

His stats are comparable to Ron Santo, who is in. My only objection is that I can't see how Santo and Rolen can be in but not Ken Boyer, whose stats are extremely similar to both Santo and Rolen.

[@mikekeeler6362]

@@GeraldM_inNC there are other third baseman in the history of the game may not have had as many gold gloves but definitely had better stats then Scott Rolen but are not in

[@greatone275]

@@GeraldM_inNC its a damn shame Boyer isnt in

[@ceciljustice7283]

I'm not for sure if I came on your channel before but you nailed it. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens should be in the Hall of Fame regardless of what anybody thinks about them. as a child, I too had my prejudice against the two all-time greats. And I do apologize for that but when I saw the former commissioner along with three other players got inducted in 2017 I was bazookas. You had Pudge Rodriguez, Jeff Bagwell a year before Mike Piazza all who had some connections to PEDs. If you are talking about the character and integrity clause of the baseball Hall of Fame when it comes to Tim raines why is Keith Hernandez and Dave Parker not in? Because just like those two Tim RInes also have connections to a scandal to cocaine and Dick Allen yes we're going to talk about him. They are already guys who are very heinous and very racist that are in.

[@rudebodega]

DAVE STIEB FOR HALL OF FAME

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

Based

[@AndreIguodalaFan55]

W

[@GeraldM_inNC]

Absolutely.

[@stevehardman4686]

If Stieb had put up 2 or 3 more seasons comparable to his prime years, absolutely he would be worth mentioning. Based on what he actually accomplished in his career, it just isn't there, sorry, his actual numbers are in every way well short of being a worthy member of the HOF. The one extra thing he might have going for him, his good years the team didn't make the playoffs or advance, and when they finally won it all, it was in spite of Stieb and his negative WAR

[@lukemccrory]

Thank you! Bonds was the best player in history. Stats don't lie. If Selig, a spineless man who turned a blind eye to the steroid era for profit, makes the hall, while Barry Bonds, the most feared, decorated, and powerful hitter of all time doesn't, there's something wrong.

[@EquityCall]

How about this: Let the no doubters like McGwire, Bonds and Clemens in. Probably would've been HOFers anyway. The guys on the fringe, no. The juice was too big of a factor. Done.

[@sirfallsalot2000]

Thank you. And get Lofton In already!

[@dsl32]

You are making a great point, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens belong in baseball hall of fame

[@MarkKrauklis]

Bonds and Clemens belong in the Baseball Hall of Dope fiends .🤮😜🤑😝

[@FTLnovaKid]

Barry bonds is the greatest player to ever play baseball, dude was a monster. Steroids don’t make a great player.

[@dontrellmayfieldjr2868]

It’s the talent.

[@GeraldM_inNC]

Sosa? Ortiz? Canseco? McGuire? They wouldn't have been greats without PEDs.

[@Tonyconstanza]

@@GeraldM_inNCso where’s that positive test for Ortiz ? He played way too much and was tested all the time. His last 4 seasons were even better than his 2008-2010 years

[@Mondo762]

Bonds never tested positive for steroids. Nor did he ever admit to using them. He was already voted the Player of the 90's before pumping up. What a shame to destroy a great career.

[@amazingkook143]

My view is if remove the years where they cheated and they are still HOF caliber, then elct them into the hall. Schilling is unique in that it was way more on his personality than his on field product, but it was he himself who decided to not be on the ballot for his last year. Same thing with A-Rod, if you only take into account his Mariners and Rangers career, still a HOF player.

[@ahogg5960]

Except for the fact he freely admitted to using PEDs while he was on the Rangers, so by your own definition, that goes out the window as well.

[@amazingkook143]

@@ahogg5960 Ok, his time in Seattle is enough. Seattle A-Rod was insane and people don't even respect what he did in that short amount of time.

[@fuktrumpanzeeskum]

How do you know what years they cheated and which they didn't? Some still deny ever using PED's so do we just guess which seasons to count? Only discount the really obvious ones? Then there's guys like A-Rod. He can say he didn't start using until he was on the Rangers but considering that he became friends with the godfather of steroids Jose Canseco before he was even drafted, i find that claim extremely hard to believe. Do we just take player's word on when they cheated or only include seasons where they failed a test as cheating?

[@amazingkook143]

@@fuktrumpanzeeskum there is never going to be a perfect system. In my mind, if they HOF, they HOF. That's it.

[@TRivera13]

I was totally against any known PED user being elected. That said, after the election of Ortíz I simply suggest this. Any player who failed a test after MLB's established ban, shouldn't get in. So Bonds, Clemens, Sosa get in. Rodriguez, Palmiero, Canó & Manny Ramirez do not. Only fair way to do it in my opinion.

[@WhatHappenedtoBaseball]

Bud Selig for Life! That's totally the where The Diamond lands at the end of the video

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

Bud Selig best commissioner!!1!

[@TERoss-jk9ny]

When the writers didn’t vote Steve Garvey in, I decided they are all worms.

[@tinieblashistoriasdeterror4963]

What a great video! Thank you for making it clear to everybody out there! I'm echoing your words, totally agree with you!

[@fritzvanlonden1388]

One question remains after wading through all this muck... Who is the Hall for? Is it to acknowledge the ball players wonderful career or for the fans to celebrate their heroes? I'm still salty about Pete Rose's continued exclusion after all these years.

[@csnide6702]

yup ... as it stands -- guy with most hits - NOT IN guy with most HRs- NOT IN guy with second highest career avg. - NOT IN half of infield combo with most double plays - NOT IN (partner was put in not by vote) guy with 21 yr career 2800 hits - 400 steals - .272 avg. and 11 Gold Gloves - Not IN

[@mattray9904]

The worst thing is that they've elected inferior steroid users. David Ortiz of all people? He was released by Minnesota at 27 and then tests positive for steroids in the same season he suddenly became an MVP candidate. Pudge Rodriguez juiced for at least a decade and ballooned up to 232 pounds of mostly muscle st probably 5'8" max. Suddenly, MLB introduces testing with penalties in 2005 at the same exact time Canseco outs Pudge as a steroid user and he drops from 215 pounds to 187 pounds. When asked if he was on that same 2003 survey test that caught Ortiz in 2009, Pudge replied "only God knows." No, players were informed that they tested positive after the Feds seized the tests in 2004 and players would also know if they had used steroids or not. Bonds was the best player and best hitter of the past half century before he started using steroids in 1999, and he probably wouldn't have even started using had MLB not consistently ignored steroid use dating back to at least 1994 when MLB was warned by the FBI about McGwire and Canseco. As for Clemens, he never transformed his body or style with steroids. His steroid use was so minimal it consisted of three 4-7 week cycles total over a 4 season stretch and its not clear it really changed his performance. In 1998 and 2000, he had a groin injury early so it's difficult to say whether the injury healing or the cycle made the difference. He was throwing 97 mph before the cycle and trip to the DL in 2000. In 2001, he didn't use until August by the account of the trainer who accused him yet he was 15-1, well on track to lead the league in strikeouts and throwing 98 mph by early May, 3 months before his cycle and 8-9 months after he finished his last cycle. I'm pro-steroids in general, but I hate the inconsistency. David Ortiz is the perfect example of a player made great by steroids. Bonds and Clemens were all-time greats without steroids. And if we're being realistic, there may not be the direct evidence there is for Ortiz and Pudge, but Bagwell and Piazza were steroid users as well. You don't gain 20 pounds in a short baseball offseason as both did in their late 20s and remain that muscular, let alone after you've been using for years.

[@csnide6702]

Ortiz was also a terrible one dimensional player-- couldn't play in the field his last 5 seasons .... he got in because he was a Red sock. PERIOD.

[@A.M.D.S.]

I've always been for leaving all users out (knowing that inevitably some would slip through the cracks) but if Selig is in, then not letting all the users in makes zero sense. The only thing more absurd than having Selig in and not the players would be to induct an actual steroid.

[@donsmith3483]

You are spot on. Selig was terrible and certainly does not belong in the hall of 'very good'. Sosa has been blackballed for suspicion which is comical because most guys going in, fall in that category. In my opinion, the baseball HOF has decided to follow the 'left' by 'including' the very good, and 'canceling' those it suspects of PED use. It is a wonder my all-time fav Eddie Murray got in. His numbers forced their hand or he may have joined Soda on this 'cancel culture' hate train.

[@vicarious4231]

Never forget that Bagwell, Piazza, and Ivan Rodriguez are in the HOF, but not bonds smh

[@krantzbucks]

And David Ortiz.

[@dontrellmayfieldjr2868]

The writers are so disgrace..

[@GeraldM_inNC]

All three very suspicious, and Rodriguez very very suspicious.

[@dontrellmayfieldjr2868]

@@GeraldM_inNC Jeff Bagwell’s forearms are just as big as Mark McGwire’s

[@Boogbama123]

The HoF means Jack doo doo without Steve Garvey in it.

[@csnide6702]

Garvey didn't have the numbers

[@rlsfrny]

There is NO chance Sosa was not using Steroids. #1 - since Roger Maris, Aaron Judge is the only player to hit more than 60 HR - except for steroid users Bonds, McGwire and Sosa. #2 - look at the guy's head. Same thing happened to McGwire and Bonds and Canseco and Giambi. Now look at McGriff. Notice the difference? Without steroids, does Sosa even break 500 HR? Probably not. And aside from the HR, what else does he have on his HoF resume? Case closed.

[@HanZhang]

The older I've gotten, the less I've put weight on awards and accolades that rely on subjective reasoning. I personally believe the best method for determining player inductees is to have objectivity through a player's career stats. That way, there is at least concrete reasoning for a player not getting into the Hall.

[@waffles2waffles]

I was considering the argument for Sosa in the Hall, that mainly being 600+ HRs and the only one with three seasons of 60+, and I was wondering if a poor fielder with only 900 hits, but all of them HRs, would be Hall-worthy. I would posit no, and so Sosa is rightly denied.

[@Spartan0430]

@@waffles2waffles if a guy showed up to play baseball, got 900 home runs out of 900 hits and doesn't get at least a special exhibit in the hall of fame for being the craziest freak to ever exist in the sport's history then no one deserves to be in the hall of fame.

[@Cynthionic]

I could see an argument for keeping Selig out of the hall but letting bonds in, the opposite I cannot understand

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

The literal GOAT vs the guy who almost destroyed MLB. Doesn’t seem like it should be too hard of a choice

[@Cynthionic]

@@TheDiamondBaseball I feel like it's common sense to have more sympathy for someone who does something bad vs someone who actively allows that bad thing to happen because it benefits them

[@paysonfox88]

Barry bonds is just the poster boy for the entire organization being illegitimate. In basketball they have the highest scoring member of each position in the Hall of Fame. Barry bonds had the most RBI and home runs... Even if you cut his numbers in half, he is a Hall of Fame player. If you took 30% off of Rodger Clemens, his numbers are still Hall of Fame. The reason that Pudge Rodriguez made it in, despite taking steroids himself in the middle of his career, is because he was very nice to the media and they covered for him

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

Do you think Bonds and Clemens are Hall of Famers? Let us know why or why not down below!

[@yessir7630]

Yes , they were the best players in the world pre roids

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

Sure Problems is that their personalities conflict with... I'd say most civilized people (add Psycho Schilling to this list) Bonds was influenced by how badly a black man - his father - was treated However, he has a chilling streak of cruelty which he's often aimed at the most undeserving of such treatment Clemens is a lunatic

[@jmiogo]

Nope. They never confessed. If they had, and showed some grace, I'd vote them in

[@dontrellmayfieldjr2868]

Yes they deserve to be in the Hall of Fame in the first place. The baseball writers has no business to be involved.

[@gerrypeet4861]

Yes. I think Bob Costas said it best on Rich Eisen's show. Put a line on their description that they are suspected of using or that their numbers may have been enhanced by using PEDs. There are guys in the Hall of Fame that used that never got caught, the whole era is tainted by steroids but everyone was tuned in too. I don't know how you punish these guys for it.

[@robertmccabe841]

They did not do it only for their egos, but to make themselves the best player to help their team- which they considered helped their team win games. How can anyone say that Bonds was not the greatest player that ever played for those few years- when pitchers would walk him with the bases loaded instead of pitching to him. I totally agree with your evaluations on on Dick Allen and Sammy Sota- this country, people are innocent until proven guilty. Furthermore, many Players that used illegal substances were never identified- that does mean they were better than Sosa. As far as not including Bonds, a man who later in his career won MVPs, broke home run records, batted .370 for a season, and received more intentional walks in a season than the total other major league teams received the same year. Was likely the most feared hitter for several years in the entire major leagues. He was a great player even before steroids. Lastly, the ability to put fans butts into the stadium seats is what most MLB teams want. I sure many people who did not live in SF still brought their children to games just to see Barry hit. He is a legend. If you gave steroids to most players, they could never have done all that Bonds did- it’s the player, and not just just steroids, that made Bonds It helped but was not the total reason he was so good. Furthermore, he took exceptionally great care of his body during those years. I felt sorry that he was not signed by teams that needed his power- during his last years associated with the sport. Nobody has ever threatened to take Arnold S- California governorship away because he used substances that were not natural. Even today, I sure there are players that are still using. It’s also weird that Baltimore’s Davis was great when he took meds for his adhd. He became dysfunctional because of his ADHD when he was not allowed to take the medication that an MD prescribed because of his illness. I sure there are many players even now that take adderall not ADHD but only because it makes them better players. Mr. Davis, actually had a real diagnosis and was prescribed the medication. If someone has a dysfunction that is corrected with medications- and you do not allow him to treat his disorder- it is really fair to anyone. It’s BS. Barry Bonds belongs in the hall of fame along with other players, including ARod, Roger. Mark M and others. They played the game at a high level and need to be recognized. So does Dick Allen- it’s not steroid related but it’s some judge that has a God complex- judge a person by what you see and not on your biases. It’s like labeling Roger Maris or even Arron judge with an * because he played more games than back before expansion. Before expansion, they did not have to face 100 fast balls, sliders that brake incredibly hard diving out of the strike zone. The older players were also great- but many of them could never hit some of the pitchers that exist today that are not legends- but just kids that can throw a baseball over 100 miles and still make the ball sink or dive out of the strike zones. Bonds maybe one of the top five people who ever played the game- recognize the truth!

[@michaelcox1913]

The Writers opened a huge can of worms with Selig and Ortiz

[@brianelwood3040]

I completely and strongly agree with the things you stated and it's great to hear another person voicing their opinion about the hypocrisy of Selig being in the HOF, while guys like Bonds and Clemens are not. Also, good to see someone previously commented about the baseball writers voting Bonds to seven MVP awards. They also voted Clemens to seven Cy Young awards. I believe there were sometimes that it was unanimous for both. But they couldn't vote them into the HOF? To add another topic that bothers me about the history with this group of high and mighty baseball writers who don't want to negatively impact the sanctity of the HOF. They for some reason couldn't vote guys like Ted Williams, Hank Aaron and Willie Mays to name a few as being unanimous on the ballot. For those who didn't vote for them, what more did they need to do in their careers to get their vote? As great as Mariano Rivera was, he shouldn't have been the first player to get 100%. Not saying he should have received 100%, but he should not have been the first one.

[@markgardner9460]

Bobby Abreau and Scott Rolen widely regarded as being clean? They don't pass the eye test by a country mile! C'mon, man. Bloated faces - NFL linebacker bodies. Modern vitamins and training methods, right?

[@richardhaire5001]

You’re spot on ! If you look back at players from 20s 30s 40s 50s some were horrible human beings and yet because of their baseball feats sit in the Hall of Fame it has become a popularity contest not a production driven accolade

[@damonke79]

Scott Rolen did not deserve to get in. Neither did Harold Baines. Seems like the Hall of Fame rather put good instead of great players in instead of actually putting the best players in, steroids or not.

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

Totally agree on Baines, but the Rolen slander I’ve seen lately is so bizarre. He’s a 70-WAR player, a 7x All-Star, and the best defensive 3B of his generation. From 1997-2004, he was the best player not named Bonds or Rodriguez in terms of fWAR. The only reason why he wasn’t elected sooner was because he had to be compared with Bonds and ARod and he played with peak Pujols (though he was better than Pujols in 2002 and 2004)

[@damonke79]

@@TheDiamondBaseball I get all that but he also played in a wildly offensive era and only had three 30 homerun seasons, five 100 rbi seasons and only had 2077 hits. Great defense, I get all that but never won an MVP. Also, he hit .220 with a .678 OPS in 39 career playoff games. He won a World Series in 2006 and played well but take away that World Series and his postseason batting average falls to .188.

[@csnide6702]

@@TheDiamondBaseball He couldn't carry Pujols bat ...... !

[@jaytrace1006]

Schilling should be in. It’s stupid..

[@RetailRipper]

Selig should not be in the HOF. As far as bonds goes, he knew he was going to be a hof'er at the end of his career and he still let his ego get the best of him.

[@dominicbrando3822]

Bonds and Rodriguez were already in the Hall of Fame before they used the performance drugs

[@jeffreypeace2696]

Facts: Ty Cobb bet on baseball. He beat an umprire half to death with a bat after a game. Gaylord Perry wrote a book about how he cheated with the spitball...and on and on and on and on...

[@Karmy.]

Glad I'm not the only one who brings up Gaylord Perry every time there's a discussion on if Bonds and other steroid users should be in the Hall

[@forgerelli1]

Good video. FYI the Hall Of Fame is not run by MLB, it's entirely seperate and they can make thier own rules. I highly recommend Bill James` Whatever Happened To The Hall Of Fame for a good history on the HOF.

[@yell0wberry]

Very true, every major sports Hall of Fame is not run by the league itself. But as far as baseball goes, they definitely should follow the trend of the other sports. And not hang onto old fashion traditions, especially when deciding who should be recognized as the elite of the elite. Someone like Scott Rolen probably should have been a Hall of Famer quite a while ago, I think the biggest problem was his lack of recognition by a lot of people. In spite of what bonds, Clemens and A-Rod did, they do deserve to be recognized into the Hall of Fame as well as a jerk, such as Curt Schilling, and unfortunately a sports bettor like Pete Rose. Assholes such as Ty cobb, tris speaker, dizzy, Dean, and the rest of those knuckleheads aren’t exactly role, model, citizens, but they are in the Hall of Fame too.

[@ezekielcaselton5842]

You made a point I never thought about; Bud shouldn't be in, either if it's about what they say.

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

Yeah, most people don’t realize just how much damage he single-handedly did to baseball’s image and reputation

[@bigbrad6828]

It’s funny to me that everyone is complaining about the writers voting in Rolen and not their favorite players. I keep seeing people bring up the fact that Rolen only ever finished top 10 in mvp voting once. So people are mad that the same writers who are so bad at voting in hall of famers are apparently beyond reproach when it comes to voting for MVP. The halls been a joke to me for some time now, in the early to mid 2000s they started voting in players that didn’t really deserve it and it’s gotten more watered down ever since then.

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

It’s funny to me how people are complaining about Rolen at all. Between 1997 and 2004, he was the best player not named Bonds or Rodriguez in terms of fWAR. 70 WAR, 7x AS, best defensive 3B of his generation…seems like it should’ve been obvious from the jump

[@csnide6702]

@@TheDiamondBaseball so what ..? WAR is a USELESS stat..... Rolen only had 2077 hits...... NOT EVEN CLOSE TO ENOUGH

[@teswigknight4107]

Some real good perspective. I was also taught to hate Roid users, but was a fan of the Red Sox with manny Marimez. It really is a tricky thing

[@dominicbrando3822]

MLB loved Bonds Sosa and Rodriguez when they were playing and making all that money for them. Now that they dont play anymore and baseball doesnt need them. Theyre punished by MLB for what they did.

[@saytr4]

1:18 Bonds admitted or tested positive? When did this happen? Even so, steriods were first banned from use in MLB in 2005- this is after Bonds won 7 MVP awards. I never got why people jumped on Bonds. I always thought you proved someone broke a law or a rule and THEN you punished them. WTF?? Also 3:06 ..No. He could not "put a stop to it at any time". The Commissioner of Baseball isn't a dictator, the players have a union. The players union in baseball has been the most powerful union in sports for 50 years. The players union said no testing until 2003 (anonymous testing) and no punishable testing until 2005. That's what happened. Not even gonna watch the rest if you can't even get basic facts right dude.

[@csnide6702]

BALCO testimony - He admitted to using both Steroids and HGH although he "didn't know it at the time" - he tried to say he thought it was "flaxseed oil"

[@PlasticPellets]

Scott Rolen is not a Hall of Famer

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

Putting aside how blatantly wrong this comment is, he quite literally is a Hall of Famer now

[@PlasticPellets]

@@TheDiamondBaseball I am not saying he wasn't inducted into the Hall of Fame....I'm saying he is not a Hall of Famer....Neither is Jack Morris, Harold Baines, Bruce Sutter, Lee Smith, etc etc

[@csnide6702]

I agree

[@csnide6702]

@@PlasticPellets jack Morris and Lee smith - yes .... Rolen - NO

[@himartinez3515]

I say let them in the Hall of Fame as we will never know the full population of steroid users. Ortiz was caught and got in. Others like Griffey Jr were on a team with multiple steroid users and has never been placed in same discussion because of his lean appearance and graceful swing. Yet his body broke down quickly in Cincinnati. Just saying we will never know the full population.

[@stephengrinkley9889]

I couldn't agree more with every word you said! I've been saying for years that the baseball Hall of Fame is a holier-than-thou, hypocritical joke for much of the reasons you stated. Especially given that Big Papi had the same level of steroid suspicion as Sosa and Clemens, and yet he got in on the first ballot, and guys like Sosa, Bonds and Clemens have virtually been banished to baseball Hell. However the thing that blew me the most is what they did to Curt Schilling. Essentially keeping him out of the Hall of Fame for literally political reasons. I know it's not PED's related, but I think what they did to Schilling is the most egregious IMO. So since then, I don't really view the baseball HoF as a credible and unbiased organization.

[@Osarogie112258]

I genuinely despised how they disrespected McGriff, Sosa, Abreu, Dick Allen, and Schilling. But the baseball Hall of Fame has to be the worst Hall of Fame of all the pro sports.

[@yell0wberry]

I sure hope you have this same kind of passion if Julian Edelman is inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame

[@iamhungey12345]

@@yell0wberry Edelman is one of the players who seems really popular among those who are prisoners of moment.

[@tgorefan]

They should just make a part of the hall for alleged steroid users if they won’t let them in

[@GeraldM_inNC]

Yes, that is my opinion too. Explain to the visitors as they enter that wing that (1) there was no mechanism for knowing who took steroids or how often, and (2) some steroid users may have had the talent to be greats even if they had never used them. Provide as much information as possible about each person assigned to that wing and leave it to the visitors to draw their own conclusions.

[@mrsticky005]

I think PEDs should be made legal in MLB. 1. I don't think they really give an unfair advantage as much as people think they do. I mean they do give an advantage but so does diet and exercise. Is it fair when players get injured and can't exercise? 2. It will be much safer when PEDs are legal and regulated 3. Contrary to popular belief, no not everyone would use PEDs nor would those who use PEDs necessarily be the best in the game. Yes they will enhance performance but if you can't hit the ball it doesn't matter how hard you swing.

[@gasstationsushi1999]

Pete Rose should be in the hall

[@whoishec7615]

I’ll never understand how they allowed Piazza…Bagwell and even David Ortiz(who tested positive and apologized) but won’t allow Bonds…Arod and Manny Ramirez….yea and Clemens definitely should be in there hands down…..I love baseball but the HOF selectors need to be removed and replaced 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@whoishec7615]

Oh yea….let Sammy Sosa in as well

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

I think A-Rod and Manny are in a different class here because they were caught after MLB began testing and enforcement, but in general, it’s a huge double standard

[@GeraldM_inNC]

Ortiz shouldn't have been allowed in. It sends a message that likeable PED users are OK. Plus his career stats show all the signs of a guy who emerged out of obscurity by radically changing something in his life.

[@robwasilewski9273]

So Bud and others who benefit from the steroids era get into the hall of fame but the players don't. How in heck is this fair

[@GeraldM_inNC]

The answer isn't to let the PED abusers in, but rather to kick Selig out.

[@jamesradford8614]

I agree with everything in your video! It’s a travesty that one of the greatest all round players Barry Bonds & one of the greatest right handed pitchers Roger Clemens haven’t been indicted as 1st rd ballots. Sosa was linked with Mark McGuire who was caught on steroids and he is one of the greatest HR hitters. And Sheffield is another player who should have been in the HOF a long time ago! Players like Piazza,Bagwell & Ivan Rodriguez. The HOF is hypocritical! Media votes for players they like not who deserve to be in based on performance! If Thome is in why isn’t Sosa. How did Joe Mauer & Harold Bsines get in?

[@54raynor]

The single biggest misconception about PED usage in MLB is that Selig is the one who let it run rampant throughout the game. The truth is that it was already rampant two decades prior to Selig ever sitting down in the commissioner’s chair. The Mitchell Report says this very thing, citing a 1973 study by the federal government that revealed “alarming” levels of PED usage, citing both steroids and amphetamines by name. What changed in the 1990s was a greater understanding of weight training and conditioning, which went from teams not even having weight training facilities to a standard part of all training regimens throughout the game. This is what truly unlocked the full potential of the steroids that were already being widely used. This is the true hypocrisy of the BBWAA, as they don’t want to acknowledge that the players they grew up cheering for were also looking for every chemical edge they could find.

[@desmondscoby1943]

Dick Allen is now dead rest in power king To be Hall of Fame quality and not get in is a shame

[@garrettrayburn8531]

Sosa was caught corking his bats as well

[@gerrypeet4861]

Gaylord Perry greased baseballs but he's in. What kind of cheating is acceptable and what kind of cheating is not?

[@donaldmacisaac8479]

@@gerrypeet4861 he also has one of the greatest names of any HOF’er

[@rars0n]

Great video! I agree with everything you said. However, I think it's absurd that Selig got voted in simply for doing his job. That's absolute nonsense. The steroid era stuff is just more fuel for the dumpster fire. The Baseball Writers' Association of America have proven themselves to be a bunch of clowns who use their power to make pointless political statements about their opinions of former players. It would be unfair to characterize every member that way, but as a group, they are a total joke. The most significant thing about them is that they've made the Baseball Hall of Fame completely irrelevant due to their idiotic antics. Whether it's grandstanding about suspected PED users or the idiocy of not voting in a surefire HoFer because "nobody gets in on the first ballot," I'm just done with it all. I don't care anymore. The BWAA is a joke, the HoF is a joke, and they can shove their opinions up their asses.

[@DrewAujus]

If u could let Houston cheat and keep the WS title, u should let all the Juicers in.

[@JDSMART100]

sosa is not a good example. when ask to take a drug test. sosa said 'why? you trying to get me in trouble" that sounds like he was hiding something to me. not to mention this after the corked bat. but, i agree with you. rolen's in, dale murphy's not. yea, there's a problem.

[@Diggerdog2nd]

Did my 1st comment before watching & in this one after. I'd say I agree with u 100% & even learned something about Sammy. They should take voting away from the writers as they've proven they can't be objective. So many others that should be in 4 different reasons like Shoeless Joe. He was wrongly banned 4 life yet he's been dead for what 60 odd years? And Pete Rose should be in for what he did as a player not a manager & nobody ever said he threw a game he bet on. Not in his nature. Bonds & Clemons were Hall guys before any allegations. Everyone knows that. All the Holier than thou's can cram it.

[@itinerantpatriot1196]

The problem with Bonds and Clemens is their motivation. With Bonds it was ego. He didn't like McGwire and Sosa getting all the accolades and setting those records so he got on the juice and put the numbers so far out of reach the only way to touch them would be to juice like he did. Clemens did it for the cash. His career was slowing down and he wanted a few more paydays. Both of those guys would have made the Hall if they would have stayed clean. But they made a choice and sorry, while baseball is hypocritical, making up for one instance of poor judgement by doing it a second time isn't going to take away the taint those players put on themselves. If I were king for a day those HR records would be reset, but that's me. As for Sosa and his "innocent victim" card, give me a break. I'm old enough to remember the night his bat exploded because of the super balls he corked it with. This was before his sudden chemically enhanced power surge. The guy was always a cheater. And yes, if you're going to be a snake, you should at least have the good sense to be a charming snake. The world is chock full of sociopath's who figured that bit out. And while we're on the subject of guys being snubbed, what about Lou Whitaker? His numbers stack up favorably with Joe Morgan and he has a higher WAR than Sandberg but Lou committed the sin of playing in Detroit. Maybe if he would have done backflips he might have had a shot but I guarantee if he played in St. Louis or New York he'd be in. And I couldn't help but notice you were silent on the matter of Curt Schilling. Perhaps a bit of your own bias slipping in? The bottom line is, all these halls are subjective and yes, if you piss off the guys who get to say who gets in and who doesn't you are most likely going to get screwed unless your numbers are so off the charts they can't deny you. Ask Jack Morris. Dick Allen had good numbers but they aren't jaw dropping. As for hypocrisy, now that baseball is being sponsored by gambling houses and allowing betting to go on in their stadiums, don't you think Shoeless Joe ought to get a pass? But then you'd have to do the same for Pete Rose and sorry, I'm old enough to remember him to and he was a dick (unless you lived in Cincinnati or Philadelphia I suppose). So if I apply the "I don't like you standard" he's out. See, that's my bias. We all have em. Anyway, that's just my take on it. I'd keep them cheating SOB's out for life but I get the feeling at some point Bonds and Clemens will get in. I heard the testing protocols have gotten lax and guys who were skinny are beefing up again. Judge broke Maris's record and I hope he did it honest. Roger and Hank deserve that much.

[@csnide6702]

exactly right !

[@mistapotta]

Let's compare Philly 3B career numbers: Player 1: .281 average, 316 HR, 118 SB, .490 Slugging, .855 OPS Player 2: .292 average, 351 HR, 133 SB, .534 Slugging, .912 OPS. Player 1 is Scott Rolen. Player 2 is Dick Allen, who did this against Koufax, Gibson, Carlton, Ryan, Seaver, Palmer, and many other HOF pitchers.

[@alwillk]

Until You consider how great Rolen was defensively 140 runs saved over his career and Allen was -40.

[@csnide6702]

@@alwillk Scott Rolen couldn't carry Dick Allens shoes

[@GoombaGuy1996]

I take a what I like to call a "moderate" view when it comes to steroid use. i take it by a case by case basis, such as specific players and intent. Some examples, players such as Andy Pettitte took HGH to recover from injury faster, not to enhance performance. In regards to the 2003 List. It was never supposed to made public, and even if we take the list at face value, it's safe to presume that there were substances that were completely legal at the time, but not anymore. And regarding Sammy Sosa. A lot of arguments I hear is that Bonds and Clemens were already Hall of Famers statistically before they decided to use PEDs, and that Sosa was just an average player before his time with the Cubs. Furthermore, everytime Sosa is asked about PED use in interviews, he tries to dodge the question and acts all sus about it. Those two factors, along with dislike from the media, gave people the conclusion that Sosa was purely a product of PED use.

[@danielcorreard3746]

if you let bonds and clemens in the hof then you have to let rose in. bonds and clemens compromised the integrity of base ball rose didn't. Rose obviously didn't throw any games and there is no proof he bet against his team. so yes he gambled which is a very big no no but he managed to win the game. it's all just very sad that we even have to have this debate right now. selig is a hypocrite for his whole handling of the situation.

[@zqrahll]

I couldn't agree more with this-- but there are other levels of hypocrisy with the Hall of Fame too. First of all, pretty much all of MLB was on speed for decades-- greenies were the secret ingredient that kept everyone from Mays to Mantle to Aaron out there for 162 days in a row. Secondly, Gaylord Perry is an admitted spitballer who got in. Cheating was fine in all those cases-- it wasn't until we got to pearl-clutching offended writers that we ran into problems with people like Bonds, Clemens, etc. And thank you so much for pointing out the blatant double standard with Sosa & Ortiz.

[@user-kd3cv9kb4s]

Great Video. feel like the baseball HOF has the same bs problems that any Sports media voted awards/achievements have including other sports. They are extremely biased and care too much about narrative than objective facts/stats. I Was never a Bonds fan but he is probably the greatest player of all time and should be in the HOF and according to the rules of baseball at the time he didn't cheat. The same people that cheered McGwire Clemens and Bonds in the moment like to retcon their thoughts nowadays to take a moral superiority highroad that they only now care about. I cheered on McGwire, let him in. Steroids don't help with the vision to hit a 90+mph fastball, or a curveball. Not to mention everyone including the pitchers were on roids so it was actually pretty fair. They want to keep out Schilling because of crap he has said and done recently that has nothing to do with baseball. Is he a good guy, probably not but he was a good baseball player and that is what the HOF is about. If you are going to punish people for the steroid era or modern politics then there should not be a modern pitcher allowed in cause they were all using sticky substances to throw the ball. Basketball has a horrible time with its awards because they are voted on by the media and it very clearly awful and biased. Baseball HOF is the biggest joke of them all because they talk about morals etc. Guess what, I am betting there are a fair few racist people inducted in the HOF from back in the day, maybe take a look and start removing people based on their past transgressions/cheating too then. Or is that too much? Niekro cheated lets remove him. Gaylord perry cheated. These guys admitted or got caught during games. THe double standard hypocrisy of this game and its fan base is what makes me hate talking to anyone about baseball.

[@csnide6702]

problem I have with Bonds was HE DIDN'T NEED to use steroids. He was good enough without it. But his ego got in the way.... so he pays for it.

[@Yoda35421]

Writers don’t want to give one last award to players who don’t need it and disrespected the game. They see it as the only way to send a message to young players. The league does testing now and that’s fine, sure the league looked the other way in The beginning. Physical Museums aren’t necessary to acknowledge stats by Sosa bonds Clemens arod etc. the fans who watched them play know they’re the best and their stats and highlights are all over the internet.

[@SamRobnett]

Good video. I do have some suggestions that I think would present your point of view in a stronger light. In the beginning you should have mentioned that some sports writers have a vote. They way it was phased, it makes it seem like only the press have a vote.

[@aidenawe9359]

Put shoeless Joe Jackson in the HOF

[@GeraldM_inNC]

Totally screwed over!

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

Generally speaking, BB writers are self-important jackasses I like your show You should have more recognition I appreciate your maturity and the lack of post-tween goofiness I see on other BB channels I'm going to find a way to advertise your channel I just have to figure out where to put it Let me know if you have any ideas I say this because it's pointless for me to promise to subscribe since I have precisely one - which demonstrates my aversion to being a subscriber But I think I can benefit you a whole lot more I'm just not sure how well my subscriber base intersects with your potential subscribers

[@notreallyadog9646]

Three things not mentioned in the Sosa-Ortiz comparison that need to be said: 1. Ortiz was the ONE player that the MLBPA openly went to the defense of after the NYT report. What info did they have on him re: his test that was different that the others being reported on? Who knows. But it was significant enough that they went to the mat for him. Not Sosa. Not anyone else. 2. The real turning point in how people felt about Sosa came because of his corked bat. It was that, not steroid rumors, that put a taint on his home run records. 3. Also not mentioned is Sosa’s horrible performance in front of Congress, where, in between McGwire saying he “wasn’t there to talk about the past” and Palmeiro defiantly wagging his finger at representatives months before he got busted for taking steroids, Sosa-who had never had a problem speaking English-suddenly forgot how to speak or understand it. That led to him being seen as not just a cheater, not just a liar, but a real sleaze. I just think those are three significant things that should have been addressed when making the Sosa-Ortiz comparison.

[@ExcuseZero]

I think if you're up for voting at all based on current standards, you should already be in. It's not like there are thousands of players up for it each season. Getting a nomination should merit something

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

Players aren’t actually nominated, basically you qualify for the ballot by playing in 10 or more seasons, which is no small feat by any means but doesn’t mean you’re a Hall of Famer

[@friday0408]

Albert Belle

[@brandonwenzel2844]

I completely agree that HOF is hypothetical and fundamentally unsound in certain ways. Every major HOF has issues, some worse than others. However, I don't think that's justification for blanket induction of players with great stats. The fact is, the steroids scandal happened. Those players chose to participate. Some of them were caught, others weren't. If they got caught, and it's definitive, for me, they axed themselves from ever getting in. Let's not forget, those guys made millions of dollars doing what they were doing. So I don't really have any sympathy for them now. There's no perfect system in place to handle an entire era of controversy. It has to be taken case by case.

[@SadmanBaseball]

this was wonderful

[@TheDiamondBaseball]

This is a high honor coming from you, thank you

[@SconnerStudios]

I can't think of anyone who deserves to be kicked out of the hall more than Selig other than Cap Anson, who should be kicked out due to his role in helping establish the "gentleman's rules"/color barrier. Selig knew and thought baseball would be better because of it. He was wrong. Also, he was a mediocre owner on top of that, so no credit there for being owner. Say what you want about Manfred, and I say Rob Manfred is a flying purple lesbian fish named Cassandra with 37 eyes and the ability to cast magic before I would ever call him "good" at his job, but at least he hasn't ruined the integrity of the game for decades to come. He's only ruined it for a good 10-20 years until every 2017 Astros player retires. Selig saw the spark that was clearly going to start the forest fire, looked at it, and gave a big thumb's up while the fire destroyed everything.

[@rlsfrny]

All you apologists for the Steroid Era - get off your high horse. At some point there will be a Steroid Era exception or wing at the Hall and 8 players will get in. But so far, Steroid use = no Hall.

[@GeraldM_inNC]

Selig needs to be removed, and should never have been in. That guy knew perfectly well that PEDs were running rampant and he did nothing until Congress told him in no uncertain terms that if he didn't act then Congress would. The guy was a true P.O.S.

[@Redsox4444443]

My opinion is very similar. I used to be anti the steroid guys getting in, but, it softened over the years. Then i completely flipped my opinion when Bud got in. If he is in, they should all be in.

[@greatbearofalltime]

This video is 100% on point