The Importance of the Inside Ski (with World Cup Racer)

This video is about the relevance of the inside ski in racing.
It´s not often talked about, but it is important.
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[@Mann272]

This is the most informative and perfect skiing video I’ve seen on the app. All of my questions answered.

[@ZenoKaufmann]

always asked myself about the inside ski, thank you!

[@thelion6614]

Thanks for the great video analysis. The "pull back" feeling on the inside, or uphill ski, is something that coaches have pointed out for years. When you get it to click, it makes the transition to the new turn so much quicker and powerful. One note: I find the "pull back" can be difficult when you are in super stiff race boots and the temp is cold. Additionally, I have found the "little toe edge" sensation very helpful. Usually takes me a few practice runs in good, firm snow to get the right feeling. THX.

[@AtomicB-zq2cw]

Pullback is PMTS, not racing. It is a recovery move for skiers that do not know how to get back up front without such exertion. Racers do not need it. You might notice that it wasn’t even mentioned in this video that is all about the inside ski.

[@thelion6614]

@@AtomicB-zq2cw Exactly. Unnecessary for racers. Andrew Weibrecht and David Chodounsky talked about using this image in their own skiing when we coached together at Ligety Weibrecht Ski Camp.

[@micheledallesandro79]

Thank you!

[@n1ckname246]

Great value in that vid. Thanks a lot!

[@beattheclock7509]

Thank You!

[@matteoallegretti1663]

very useful! Great job!

[@beattheclock7509]

Thank you!

[@cdawg9149]

Love the video and your opinion. As usual. Been a huge proponent of using the uphill ski. Unfortunately for me I have got to the age where I have had so many injuries in the sport after 45-50 years of skiing that I had to hang em up. But I was a huge fan of using the uphill ski. practicing 50-50 weight distribution on groomed runs was the best way to get the feel and integrating that into all aspects of skiing. Watching the park rats also is amazing to see how they use both skis. BTW the woman's Italian team is killing it right now. Great coverage this year for some reason on you tube. Mikeala isnt even participating in the speed events this year. I think she is just going to enough races to be counted. Her head I dont think is in the game this year.

[@hughgeiger9353]

My opinion on the inside ski: 1) Absolutely critical to be on 'little toe edge' at top of turn engaging hamstrings (biceps femoris, semitendinosis, semimembranosis), glutes and vastus lateralis in eccentric contraction as the inside leg is 'shortening' with increased inclination (at top of turn through to 'apex' of turn, which Japenese interski coaches define as maximum pressure/inclination - a definition I prefer as the apex is most often located after passing through fall line). This 'tension' creates the pull back feeling of the inside foot, but also keeps you forward on your skis throughout the turn and into turn transition, naturally creating forward shin pressure on the tongue of the inside boot. 2) This use of these same leg (back and side of thigh) and hip muscles in eccentric contraction becomes the 'hip hike' to move into the next turn, ie the eccentric motion becomes concentric in one smooth motion (but can be 'stalled out' and used as suspension in some larger radius eg GS or SG turns). The concentric motion becomes the extension of the new outside leg/ski to a position behind the hip (ie not by moving hip forward, instead leg is extend out and behind) - all one seamless motion using essentially the same muscles (with modifications as femur rotates in hip socket during transition). 3) Entering the top of the turn, as the old outside ski becomes the new inside ski, there is a pronounced 'toe in stance' with the new inside ski/foot rapidly inverted to engage the little toe edge while 'pulling back' as described above. However, the crossover of the skis under the COM may not be precise enough to maintain a pure carve (and who cares anyhow?) such that as the old inside ski extends to become the new outside ski it may brush or skid to desired extension at edge engagement, requiring the inside ski to match. Thus there is often a subtle 'lifting' of the tail (and even the tip) of the new inside ski and reorienting - akin to the inside ski 'stemming' onto edge but in a motion that narrows the stance (quite common to see 30 degrees of inside ski motion in WC skiers, and it is almost always used by WC skiers in every turn even if subtly). This is the secret move - perhaps similar to Harbs 'Phantom Move', but also the muscle engagement trained by doing the Javelin - which is not a drill to force weight/balance on the outside ski, but you are free to keep thinking that if you are thoroughly convinced). 4) Corso di Sci calls the engagement of the inside ski "leaning, light and sharp". In a previous comment to a Beat The Clock video on Start the turn like Henrik Kristoffersen, I describe why geometry of a parallel ski track requires a toe-in stance (leg separation is cosine inclination for constant track width), and why inside ski must be more edged than outside (shorter radius arc). However, it is almost always desirable and more robust to 'match' the inside ski to outside ski at the top of the turn, during edge engagement, rather than attempt a perfect parallel turn, as snow conditions and edge hold (ruts, ice etc) might defeat your intent to make a perfect parallel turn, so why bother trying? Learn to match the inside ski! It will free up your ability to extend the new outside leg/ski quickly out and behind to engage edges - no more waiting to transition COM over inside ski - much quicker transition for SL and steep GS and required for almost all compact transitions. Also, coming out of compact transition you will generally always have to rotate the femur in the hip socket of the old outside ski becoming the new inside ski, and even extend the new inside leg, and you won't have time (especially in gates, but also skiing powder in trees) for your hip to cross over to allow that rotation and extension to happen passively. It has to be an active move ie muscles used in Javelin exercise. 5) The inside ski, once engaged in all aspects as described above, will be carving with the front of the ski bending and applying significant force (but turning force still dominant from outside ski - the inside ski is arcing because it is edged and pressured with this 'pull back' feeling that keeps the inside shin on the front of the boot). The inside leg can then be 'retracted' more aggressively, which accelerates your hip dropping to the snow. Think about engaging your leg muscles and glutes in eccentric contraction as described above, then controlling the speed you allow this to happen to the point of almost passive relaxation (yet still anticipating engagement during the 'hip hike' of the old inside ski/leg becoming extension of new outside ski/leg), and now carrying that even further, to an active retraction of inside leg (using Javelin-like move), which simultaneously drives outside hip around and creates angulation in anticipation of upper body exiting into new turn. This move can be engaged seamlessly (as it flows from all other described movement above) through the fall line to arc skis quickly, and becomes the turn transition. 6) It is useful, with modern race skis, to imagine that they don't really work at all until about 30 degrees edge angle. This can be considered as the minimum inclination required to maintain two ski contact when the inside leg is in a slightly shortened position, inside foot inverted, on little toe edge with toe-in stance. Such a position requires immediate shoulder tilt to the outside ski - high waisted (ie rib cage to hip). It is much more difficult to 'roll' from edge to flat to edge through transition. Instead, engage hamstrings and glutes to maintain forward shin pressure, adopt a toe-in stance, steer skis under COM while engaging 'hip hike' off old inside ski (can be 'up motion' to lighten skis in transition even when compact), and when old outside ski passes under COM 'flip' to inverted new inside foot (Javelin) while extending new outside ski to engage edge, simultaneously tilting shoulders to be in inclined balance on turning skis. Seek to wash the tails of the skis, using inside stem to match inside to outside ski, as the default move for racing, but you can play with more pure parallel for fun andcfree skiing or if you want to be caught late in the gates, waiting for your COM to cross over. The simplified sense, from the feet up, is that you are pulling back on the inside ski while slightly pushing forward on outside ski, and your feet make a 'figure 8' underneath your COM. The rythym accelerates during the transition, which by default includes the wash/stem as described above. Comments welcome.

[@thelion6614]

Will you be submitting the above to Lancet? ;)

[@bobfrizzell1059]

Superb analysis Hugh, very well done and insightful as always.

[@hughgeiger9353]

@@bobfrizzell1059 Thanks Bob. I've finally figured out that you have to know how to 'cheat the turn', but even more important, that anticipating the cheat should be the default 'dance move'. It is possible to be aware of all this, even to the extent that you are aware of the subtle changes. My goal is that my commitment, my intent, can be executed even when 'errors' intervene, ie the goal is self correcting technique. At every moment ... At every moment ... ... and then, we get this strange feeling, that we have never had or seen in our lives, ... except occassionally by accident, some people get a glimpse. ... that are we are no longer, this poor little stranger and afraid, in a world that we have never met. You are this universe. And you are creating it ... ... at every moment ... ... at every moment, at every moment, at every moment. Watch "WORLD CUP SKI RACERS FREE SKIING 11" on KZbin kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoDUf62MqdWMmLM

[@beattheclock7509]

Totally on point! Great Comment.

[@albertmaziarz6739]

kristoffersen100procentsownhillski

[@ISCO36]

Kaunertal!

[@CostantinoLenzi]

personaly for improve speed beetwen doors i counter my hips more in the direction of the ski same rotation of the next turn

[@Kleeblatt2304]

Refreshing to hear an Austrian accent in an english KZbin video.

[@redsock4843]

A co-coach ( his boss was a former WC- skier) of kids race camps told me that they measured pressure distribution with pressure plates and the best they ever could get in very careful soft long turns on a flat slope was 60:40. He believed that 50:50 in a turn is nearly impossible. The comment of another coach was: Nothing has changed in skiing, the outide ski is still the boss. At least on steep icy terrain and tight turns it's almost impossible to get a relevant load on the inside ski compared to the outside ski. You can only get some pressure by pulling the inside back, but you can't realy step on the inside ski without risking to loose the grip of the outside. Here some other interesting aspects of the inside ski: parallel CARVING skiing is impossible? EXPLAINED. Reilly McGlashan, 24.01.2021 Corso di sci - Check Point 05/2012 Interno leader. La GrandeNeve, 02.02.12 Corso di sci- Check Point 08/2012 Sforbiciata Maledetta. La GandeNeve, 11.06.2012 Corso di sci Check Point 2019 - 04 Rotazioni opposte. La GrandeNeve, 17.01.2019 For the Italian clips just activate english subtitels. The translation is a bit weird, but nevertheless you will understand what they want to say. Never heard before of the idea of countering the inside ski a little bit at the beginning of the turn and to keep the inside ski edge on a clear carved track without any bounce, rumble or 'scissoring' by giving pressure on the little toe edge of the tail of the inside ski via countering the ski against the turn. But I tried and it does the job. Any comments on this? Is it nonsense or a helpful disclosure of a secret?

[@beattheclock7509]

You are probably very right about pressure distribution. As for the rotation on the inside ski: i have also never heard of it and have never tried it, so i really can´t tell if it works for me. But i think that anything that works for you should be done. At the end of the day, if you´re skiing faster, that´s it. Thanks for the remarks, i´ll try it out next time i ski!

[@yijunling4108]

Nice video! I have a question here.What does step on the inside ski means?Is step on inside ski in the end of the turn(the new outside ski) so that we could start a turn more quick?

[@beattheclock7509]

Yes i mean you should put weight on the inside ski at the end of the turn(new outside ski). What i think it helps with: smoother transition, cleaner start of the turn, better balance and it is faster than finishing each turn on the outside ski.

[@ringdgg4385]

Of course, 20/80 at what part of the turn. Thanks for the video!

[@beattheclock7509]

80/20 at the apex i'd say

[@rustyme1122]

Stepping to the inside ski too early is a good way to straddle a gate. Don't ask me how I know. 🤕

[@Halblooline]

I follow most of the part but 20-80 and 50-50? Really different from what I hear from other coach. Could someone explain?

[@kyledavies4421]

He's saying that your weight distribution on the outside to inside ski can change depending on the steepness of the terrain and the snow conditions! If it's steep/hard snow or a combo of the two, weight should be 80% on outside 20% on inside, but if it's flat or soft snow 50% on both outside and inside ski.

[@beattheclock7509]

@@kyledavies4421 exactly!

[@kyledavies4421]

@@beattheclock7509 I'm glad I understood 😊