The Incredible Destruction Physics of X-Com: Apocalypse

[@Albtraum_TDDC]

Agent equipped with 2 autocannons with HE, walking down a corridor with full auto. You can't do that in turn based. Real time was the dream back then.

[@TimberwolfK]

Shortly followed by the "we are unhappy with the actions of your organisation" screen as they tally up the destruction... :D

[@mungojerrie86]

To be fair, basically all mainline X-Com games had fully or almost fully destructible environments, at least in battlescape. Interceptor didn't, of course - not much terrain in space. Apocalypse is my favourite due to its sheer ambition. It does so much!

[@Albtraum_TDDC]

I think Xcom 1 (and TFTD) had destructible buildings, but no real gravity physics. You could destroy floor-1 completely and floor-2 would not drop down on you. Apoc was pretty revolutionary.

[@HappyAspid]

Apoc is unfortunatelly woefuly underappreciated game.

[@jothain]

Tbh I didn't like it at all.

[@LeonmitchelliGalette]

Ah~ I accidentally got that game. I bought used cd-rom drive and later discovered that last owner forgot one game disc inside it. It was X-COM 3. Yes, it's fantastic game. Many many hours lost in it.

[@RailRoad188]

I remember gleefully collapsing that same slum and also realizing what an atrocity that would be IRL

[@gregorystruck679]

Destroying the map, and entire buildings in particular, was my favorite part of XCOM Apoc. Stressful week? Time to visit corp HQ for some explosive redecoration.

[@TimberwolfK]

Cult of Sirius are put there to be a stress toy, right?

[@GrimaldiJ]

I played the hell out of Xcom 3 when it released as an older teen/young 20-something. The real-time play, destroyable environment, and overall weirdness were just amazing. Many years later, my son played the hell out of it, too, despite all sorts of modern games at his fingertips. That's the sign of a truly special game.

[@TimberwolfK]

I'm happy to hear it stands up for subsequent generations! There is some genuinely great gameplay there too, beyond it being technically impressive at the time it was released.

[@GrimaldiJ]

@@TimberwolfK there's something unique about being rewarded for going into an enemy facility (Cult of Sirius), throwing incendiary bombs everywhere, and causing as much damage as possible to hurt them economically. And slaughter their troops, too. Not many other games have a similar mechanic, and it's fun.

[@RailRoad188]

I also remember tunneling through cult "churches" for fun with disrupter firing squads. Every square was basically steel scaffolding supports, so it was ridiculously labor-intensive but I had a real vendetta and OCD to fuel the endeavor lol!

[@TimberwolfK]

Ah, the Cult, the one organisation where it doesn't matter in the slightest how much you upset them. I used to mod the HE auto cannon ammo to ridiculous strength, then attempt to reduce the entire building to just the grey base tiles before the "all enemy units have died or fled" message popped...

[@rianvoogt4701]

please explain strategy. taking on their buildings in cityscape only results in high damage city bills and angers others affected by stray missiles and results on poor scores. No matter how much negative income they get it dont seem to affect them. I guess they are meant to be stronger than the aliens given they share the same city leaving them at the players mercy from start. Thus made invincible.

[@Argumemnon]

Syndicate Wars' destructible environment was no slouch either. And the game was fantastic.

[@MaximilienNoal]

This is why it is my favorite X-Com. I can't wait for OpenApoc !

[@TimberwolfK]

It looks like they're making good progress.

[@RoseTintedSpectrum]

Definitely agree with a lot of this, the switch to a more local setting was a lovely twist compared to the second game which was basically "Okay but what if water?". I think I only ever managed to have one successful game of Apoc, where I actually made some progress, most of my other games failed fairly early on and now you've explained the rubberbanding I can see bloody why!

[@TimberwolfK]

The early game has a bunch of "guide damn it" moments, particularly that you need to capture several varieties of UFO which the aliens will very quickly stop sending after the first couple of weeks (one of which is also quite hard to take down with the typical fleet of vehicles you'll have early game)

[@Albtraum_TDDC]

As you say TFTD seemed lame to me. I loved Xcom1 but Xcom2 was not what I dreamed of. It was just a reskin mod of the first game. What I dreamed of as a teen playing on my Amiga was a more realistic game. Turn based was fun, but not realistic. I wanted all the persons to move together, like in real time. So Apoc was basically the answer to my dreams.

[@Khunark]

I was introduced to xcom through TFTD, it was installed on my dad's work laptop when he got it by some legendary IT guy. I didn't play Enemy Unknown / UFO Defense until after apocalypse which is easily my favorite one in the series, and I was so disappointed in it lol. I liked TFTD because of the atmosphere, the eerie music and the dark deep sea. I found that the first game wasn't at all inspiring me with that same dread. Honestly going into TFTD blind was a blessing. Everyone and their mothers' game journalist were blasting it.

[@demcomp]

OMG This brings me back!! I still play Apoc, to this day... BUT back in the day I actually ported the AUTOCANNON from APOC to Rainbow Six... Thru editors.. OMG it was epic!

[@KapiteinKrentebol]

Maybe I need to give Apocalypse another chance then. Always when I played it I found the interface and the cityscreen too confusing compared to X-com 1. Btw. the key to beat turnbased games is to save before starting the next turn.

[@TimberwolfK]

Save in the middle of a mission? Such dishonour! (He says, below a video of himself hacking a game to bits so he can "win")

[@KapiteinKrentebol]

@@TimberwolfK I guess I'll always take dishonorable victory before honorable defeat. 😁

[@lordterra1377]

I remember having no clue what to do and kind of hated the graphics. I am going to find a manual and give this game another shot, all the features you mentioned sound truly incredible. I feel bad for setting this game aside for so long thinking it what a bastard version of Xcom.

[@Yesterzine]

I'm not actually sure I even played any from Terror to 2012. I certainly don't remember pass the parcel, extreme edition.

[@TimberwolfK]

That's pretty normal, Apoc sold moderately well but it was already a bit niche, and then once they started going properly into the weird era it dropped off a cliff for everyone but people who really loved the series trying to give it a second/third/fourth chance. I wonder how much influence the streamlined approach of Command & Conquer and Warcraft II had on sales of the more old-fashioned "clicky" games like X-COM, in 1994 when UFO came out "kneel down, get grenade out of inventory, set fuse, choose where to throw it" was more or less just How Games Worked, but after the RTS explosion it must have seemed very slow compared to "click once to attack and let the game figure it out"

[@ctrlaltrees]

I've heard so many good things about the X-Com games over the years but never actually played one. I think all this destruction has finally convinced me 😅

[@TimberwolfK]

Weirdly this means you might be in a better place to enjoy Apocalypse than most, having no preconceptions about what one should be. (I think that might be another, as-yet unmentioned reason why I enjoyed it; it may have been the first one I played, I definitely remember getting through UFO and TFTD with some heavy cheating and editing, but that might well have been after playing Apoc)

[@unperson5713]

Apocalypse is the X-Comiest of all X-Coms. It has real time or turn based, it has large squad sizes, procedural maps, destructible environments, and air-to-air combat. Not just some limited radar screen approximation of air-to-air, no! Geoscape combat which you can micro-manage! I very much enjoy the factions and the dome city setting, which is kinda Falloutty, Cyberpunky and RPG-lite. Why? Tell me why! Why can't we get a faithful recreation of this title? The wikipedia page says production of Apocalypse was a disaster akin to Coppola's Apocalypse Now! A disaster which resulted in a masterpiece.

[@frankkrunk]

This is like hearing Adam Curtis describe my favorite game ever.

[@MuchKoku]

God, some of those old game manuals were beefy. I've still got mine from Baldur's Gate II. Thing was bound with rings.

[@TimberwolfK]

This is on the tail end of the classic MicroProse Manual, too. The ones they were putting out in the prime of the MPS Labs era (c. '91-'93) were incredible. I still remember the Civilization one which had a ton of world history, a full strategy guide for playing the game and all sorts of other stuff. One of the few PC big box games which needed to be that big for everything to fit in!

[@N00N01]

[Unrelated to the great video] If there still is development on the Timberwolf-waypoints for openttd, maybe just porting the visuals of the 16 station-end tiles onto their own waypoints to assign certain trains to certain platforms , while having the realistic beauty of the Newgrf set held in tact

[@TimberwolfK]

Maybe one day, I'd like to do a bit of a set refresh and bring them all up to date with newer stuff. If there's IDs left I think I'd do something more like draw some stuff that you commonly see just beyond the end of the platform, like when Network Rail leave line maintenance equipment out ready for overnight works.

[@kernsanders3973]

even the first game's destruction physics was awesome. alien somewhere in the 3 foor building? Blow out the first floor and let the whole thing collapse. The feature's absence from all the "inspired" titles in the 2000s was felt hard. Glad they reintroduced the mechanic in the 2009 re imagine

[@RetrogradeScene]

Not sure how I haven’t played any X-Com games it looks just the kind of thing I was in to at the time.

[@TimberwolfK]

Whereas bizarrely it wasn't the kind of thing I was in to at all at the time, I just happened to play this round a friend's and absolutely loved the setting and the gameplay.

[@WhatHoSnorkers]

XCOM 1 was great. Terror from the Deep too hard. Interceptor was interesting! Never played Apocalypse, or at least I tried to last year but didn't have a clue what was happening without the manual

[@TimberwolfK]

Well at least I've still got the manual and technical supplement! Even playing from long-ingrained muscle memory I had a bit of a struggle with some things, manual control of vehicles in the cityscape is a particularly well-hidden feature.

[@mariomario-dy1kc]

Was it really that complicated without the manual? My whole guide when I first finished the campaign was the ufopedia and my experience from the previous 2 and I didn't have too much trouble, just enough to be challenging

[@evilmiera]

I could never get into Apocalypse because the screens were so busy and vertical.

[@TimberwolfK]

I liked that! It's definitely classic 1990s PC fiddly. You're supposed to be fighting an interdimensional war but half the time is hiring individual scientists by name and building them bedrooms to sleep in.

[@evilmiera]

@@TimberwolfK I don't mind complexity, I just couldn't figure out what was going on!

[@DrBones-ys1ii]

What a relaxing voice. Great video my friend. I too yearn for more interesting destruction physics in modern games.

[@TimberwolfK]

It would be great. I think to a certain extent Apocalypse gets away with it because it's of an age where it doing destruction physics at all is impressive, let alone well - although the size of maps in Teardown suggest something similar could be done with a modern version if it didn't have to look full-on AAA.

[@Zeithri]

10:20 - I remember that time I opened the Duke Nukém 3D configuration file in notepad and found RPG Blast Radius and damage. Turned it into a nuke that'd wipe entire areas :D

[@TimberwolfK]

Oh, the Duke Nukem weapon editing... I used to like making the pipe bombs set off every single destructible in the level.

[@Zeithri]

@@TimberwolfK 😆Perfection!

[@FryzuxD]

Everyone was talking about the original. Always. I knew there were sequels, but didn't know what they are

[@kuronyaa-san]

@13:50 ah... Reminds me of my nodded Marsec Mininuclear Launcher... The last alien in somewhere in the building. Screw door to door/floor to floor search. >:D

[@OpenApoc]

Interesting video TW thx!

[@nijunikuro]

I've played and finished UFO Defense, Terror From The Deep, Apocalypse, Interceptor, Enforcer, Bureau and the 2 reboot games - and I'd just like to say that real-time Apocalypse is my favorite, too. Real fans can respect that. Screw the purists.

[@Khunark]

Poppers in turn based are a damn menace. Reaction shots if you have any tend to miss, and they run like five screens on their turn. I played everything in real time, and it was a standard strategy when facing a popper to throw the kitchen sink at them. Squad of six men each throw a grenade with a one-second fuse at it, then run. Or run and drop one with zero seconds on it. Hell, I brought androids along just for their ability to toss Marsec Demolition Charges at poppers.

[@Renegen1]

so true, the game was incredible when it came out. too bad it's DOS only.

[@TimberwolfK]

It was a bit of a development hell for the Gollops, mostly down to the ambition of the game design. I think they did release a Windows version, possibly as part of the X-COM Collector's Edition, but it's *rare*, I've never seen it in the wild and can't find much information about it. Mine is of course the standard DOS version.

[@dougsaylor6442]

I remember playing the original version, and got an itch to try it out again on a modern PC... didn't work out so well. However, it's available on Steam now if you're still looking for it. Definitely playable now.

[@poppers7317]

Dos isn't an issue since forever thanks to DosBox. Windows 95 games are the real problem.

[@ogrooster69]

"It's time to spend a worryingly self-indulgent 20 minutes." You had me at hello

[@TimberwolfK]

And it only ends up as 18:57, minus however late in the video I say that. I'm like a teacher who lets you out of the lesson before the bell rings.

[@shanematuszek9009]

Thanks!

[@TimberwolfK]

Thanks so much! Much appreciated.

[@fallenswan1670]

X-Com: Apocalypse is my favourite X-Com/XCOM game (I spell XCOM as "KSOM", since it is clearly one word, while X-Com is not). Although I never played first one, and very little about second one. XCOM...well, I played it through once, and was trying with expansion to play again, but felt that it is so inferior for X-Com: Apocalypse, that I stopped playing it. I do not like idea, that every agent can have only one grenade, or healing item, or so... I loved to think what I want for that agent to carry on mission, etc. Some of them armed on their teeth, while others having less equipment (so that they can actually move too, and have actions). Also, I like more sci-fi element of Apoc, and that there is multiple levels in map, and it is important part of missions go to vertical buildings, and clean them out. And of course the demolition part (although I never had intentions destroy parts! (says some one who gave autocannons with explosive ammos for those who's accuracy was poor, and normal ammo for those who had good accuracy (but it works mate! It works!!))). But I never played with real-time mode...for simple reason: I panic more than my agents when they see first-time aliens, if I play with real time. I like my apocalypse nice and calm; easy to control! I also won the game in one of first tries. Didn't see problems with technology, or end game invasions (opposite, mid game were helluva laser show on top of the city, destroying lot of things, but in end game, I think enemy were destroyed quite fast?). But I saw my friend play the game before I did, and got some tips and ideas which were great help. I also believe that I was quite lucky: no other corpos were hostile than Cult of Sirius, and I "eliminated" Sirius in early game, so they were not really other enemies than the aliens. I would like to play the Apoc again, but mouse issue and voice issue were last time quite game breaking things (well, I think voice issue was fixed last time I tried, but mouse issue still existed). I hope OpenApoc could fix that. But more than that, I kind of wish there would be "remake" by some indie company... which take all good elements from the game, and alternate those mediocre parts of the game (like the end game, which I didn't like at all... I mean the alien world... Equally bad with Half-Life's end...). PS. Do you know that feeling, when you first time buy the biggest, most expensive missile and use it first time against aliens, you launch the missile and look it in map view how it comes closer and closer to enemy ship...and in last moment, enemy ship make 90'decree manoeuvrer, and avoid hit, and the biggest skyscraper in the who city got the missile...and will collapse from it. And after battle, you see the bill from the skyscraper, look how much you have money (not enough), take load game, and never again use that missile type..? I know that feeling.

[@epsensei]

How could I download a copy of APOC that could run on a modern rig like a surface pro (saaaayyyy).....5 or 6?

[@TimberwolfK]

Most of the online stores have a version packaged with DOSBox which will run on modern PCs fine. It's currently on sale at GOG as I write this, only 75p or so!