The IndyCar Vancouver Tragedy

[@stevenkilsdonk2046]

During the next race broadcast, Paul Page makes it very clear that he was not happy with CART for having passed along to the broadcast team that all of the corner workers were going to be fine, and that TV has the understanding from CART that they would do better going forward.

[@jacekatalakis8316]

Not the last time CART would mess fumble it while dealing with a fatal incident, see Fontana 99 and Paul saying they wanted to throw a caution to lower the flags to half mast. Apparently going by the DWR podcast there was a back and forth between CART and ABC since their booth was next to race control or near enough and Paul was apparently deeply unhappy with how they handled the entire race after Greg Moore's fatal incident

[@insertgenericusernamehere2402]

Tragic, incredible that nobody was found to be blamed for it as a track marshall you always have to gain consent from the head marshall before entering a live track. The fact no yellow was called, or nobody took accountability means they likely went rogue and brought the incident upon themselves. Which is tragic within iself, Nobody deserves to die doing what they love. But accountability for incidents like these is needed.

[@fluffskunk]

And the poor guy was basically getting pushed that way by another corner worker panicking... there were a lot of foul-ups that led to that tragedy.

[@didgereemedia194]

I'm a volunteer flag marshal from Bathurst, NSW. I, myself have had a close call with a recover ute/truck, and even had a Porsche crash into a post I was stationed at. Tragedies like this are humbling reminders of the dangers of Motorsport.

[@Toro_Da_Corsa]

Yeah. I don't know why ppl think someone needs to be blamed and punished for it

[@dylandaugherty2380]

As a flag chief at Mid-Ohio born in 2001, I knew what this was in the first 10 seconds. We are all shown this in training. SCCA and clubs still allow us to respond. I know we kept at least 2 full course yellows from happening last year from responding. We do NOT go cross track anymore. Those who respond are the most elite flaggers we have. And if there is *any* doubt of safety, we shut it down (FCY or red). IndyCar and IMSA and most pro series, and certain tracks like one very famous one in the midwest and another one in New England have banned response on a hot track with various repercussions.

[@DinsdalePiranha67]

Flag chief with SCCA San Francisco region here! The following was in one of my morning meetings during (I think) the IMSA weekend at Laguna Seca last year: "Absolutely, under no circumstances, are you to go out onto the racing surface without express permission from race control. Which you will not get."

[@stephenbritton9297]

Safety should be the only people on a hot track, and they should only be operating behind the protection of a blocking vehicle.

[@dylandaugherty2380]

@@DinsdalePiranha67 All pro car series have a “No Response. No exceptions” (IMSA, IndyCar, Nascar) policy at M.O. Clubs still allow us on rare occasions.

[@dylandaugherty2380]

@@stephenbritton9297 if a car needs to be pushed 20 yards to be behind a wall after pulling off on the pace lap (when there’s at least 2 minutes until cars come back by), there’s no need to wave off the start and send safety. Cover it local, push the car behind the wall, and everyone is back in place before the field comes lap one. You’re putting 2-3 less people on a hot track and are working in no traffic vs race traffic. While rare, there are occasions where a fully staffed corner is much more efficient and safe than a team in a safety truck 1 mile+ away. Not throwing shade at the MO safety team. Those guys know what they’re doing

[@DavidLimofLimReport]

RIP John Patrick Haine Sorry thought Krosnoff died in Vancouver. It was Toronto.

[@michaelharle722]

Was there. We were on the inside of turn one and it came up on the big screen. And we knew it was a fatal with the other two marshals being extremely lucky to be so lightly injured. The first car(s) coming to the incident saw the marshals go over the wall and the yellows were flying so they bypassed the chicane. Poor Willy T was a little later and had no idea they were there. My take on the incident is marshal error to step back across the live track and not to have the cars going down the bypass before assisting the stall in the first place. A terrible tragedy.

[@philipkalin1928]

As a racer driver myself, this ones hurt the most. You know, if you lose a driver/friend you know, that he knew the risks.. that he was willing to pay the ultimate price for what he loves. But to hear, or see a fan or a track marshall getting hurt or even killed… we could‘nt do what we love without the marshalls around the track.. these guys and girls are the true heros of what we do. Most of them don‘t even get paid for the work they do… so yeah it just breaks my heart. Much love and appreciation to all of our beloved marshalls out there. Thanks for letting us living the dream!

[@revrasheemstewart]

BFM you should do a video about the 1996 Indycar race at Toronto that ended with a fatal crash 😢.

[@bradsanders407]

Double fatality

[@sennadesillva]

That one and Gordon Smiley's at Indy are probably the most destructive indycar crashes ever :(

[@PapaVanTwee5]

My thoughts exactly. Jeff Krosnoff and a course worker died and brought out a red/checker with 3 laps to go.

[@dustypilgrimmedia8423]

Thank you for being respectful and also giving us this sobering reminder to be careful, vigilant and always have an excape route and enough time to react as we begin another outdoor racing season. Shooting my first dirt race of the year. I try to live by my 3 step rule. I have to be able to make 3 steps before the car gets to me. No excape route left him running to the opposite side of the track and into the other cars excape route. That's a do not approach situation. By my rules of engagement. It's always dangerous no foolproof way to be on the wrong side of the fence but make sure you have rules for yourselves and if you think the track is dangerous by your standards voice the problem you see so you can work throughout the issue with the track, they have a lot going on and it may be a fixable oversight.

[@Lcngopher]

This reminded me that a track marshal was killed during an event at brands hatch back in 2021 or 22, i cant remember exactly which year. KZbinr jimmy broadbent was racing in a prototype during one series racing that weekend but during another event, there was a crash into turn 1 and a car went airborn, killing a marshal. The rest of the events were canceled

[@scsutton1]

I was meant to be marshalling there that weekend, but personal events meant that I couldn't. I might just have had THE lucky escape of all lucky escapes.

[@Troublingarcher7]

I remember him posting a video on that and he seemed quite distraught while talking about it.

[@frl6683]

Remember reading about it in the bar at Oulton Park as I was attending BTCC that weekend, the atmosphere that weekend was on edge - had 2 major airbourne Mini accidents as well. The "Orange Army" got applauded louder than I'd ever heard that weekend and rightfully so.

[@danielpooley7148]

Yeah it was 2021 at paddock hill bend

[@dxrlingsofmine]

Was his name Robert Foote? I think I know who you’re talking about.

[@therenofficial]

I hate the timing on this, i was telling someone about this incident not even a month ago. Great video though,rest in peace to the marshall

[@ballaking1000]

Why would that make you hate the timing of the video? I fail to see the correlation lol

[@therenofficial]

@@ballaking1000 happened to pop up in my feed right after talking about it. 🤷🏻

[@ShaneLarocque]

trust me you don`t need to see the impact ,Think South Africa 77 Tom Pryce ect ,I watched this race live in 1990 and was shocked at how CART treated the incident

[@anncase8673]

Wouldn't be the last time CART disrespected dead fans. Remember Michigan 1998

[@ewayne1918]

What happened in Michigan 1998 if I may ask?

[@cehamlet89]

​@@ewayne1918 If I remember correctly, there was a crash coming out of turn 4 and some debris went over the catch fence. A few fans were killed as a result. I think he did a video about that incident

[@ewayne1918]

@@cehamlet89 oh wow. As a longtime racing fan these stories are hard to heat thanks for letting me know I'll look into it.

[@judefernandez9234]

​@@ewayne1918 Adrian Fernandez hit the wall at Michigan in the US 500. His right front tire flew into the grandstands where it killed 3 people. CART evacuated that portion of the stands, but kept the race running to the finish. Which CART got rightfully blasted in the media for.

[@ewayne1918]

@@judefernandez9234 oh wow yeah I understand what CART did was uncalled for

[@empire0]

I went to the Vancouver race every year from 92-98, it was a fun event. I missed this one, but my dad went and saw it. I've seen the actual video and it's pretty horrific. I wish racing would return to Vancouver, but I highly doubt it ever does. Too many people complained about the disruption to the roads. I know theres Formula E scheduled there, but thats lame.

[@appletree13]

FE was scheduled to be here, but the promoters they hired fricked up severely a couple years ago, so it looks unlikely at best.

[@Scadunc]

I bought two tickets to FE two years ago but that event or a refund is never happening

[@dangercat9188]

What did you see in the video?

[@durodesduvo8424]

I went down the rabbit hole of single seater tragedies last year. Some fucked up shit and they usually tried to cover it up.

[@BrianIsTheGOAT594]

I've never even heard about this before, but all I got to say, is R.I.P.

[@michaelgiurintano3107]

Wow!! May he rest in peace! I never knew about this! I follow Nascar more than indycar but man!! Great video as always BFM!! Fantastic work!

[@Myrvold]

Ross Bentley. A name I just know due to the PC version of Sports Car GT!

[@stevenkilsdonk2046]

He has a podcast with Jeff Braun and a writer, "It's Not the Car". Their latest episode is about the Ferrari 333SP. And he's a well-regarded driver coach.

[@heinzschmitz7450]

it was my first CART Race We took a trip from germany to see the race ,and meet friends long time ago

[@Mike-xh8fl]

Oof, regardless of the circumstances, keeping this event running the whole time three injured course workers were being attended to in the middle of the track is just fucking grim. Shame on CART.

[@DinsdalePiranha67]

This is the first I've heard of this incident. I've worked as a corner marshal since 2005, and I know practices were different at the time this happened. But my first thought was the corner captain should have had the communicator call for a tow and kept the rest of the crew out of harm's way - particularly since this was at a blind corner.

[@fathertimegaming17]

Word for a solid Willie T Ribbs sighting. Bummer for the Marshall. It's awesome that safety is improved so much for everybody these days. RIP

[@derpyc.hoovesIV]

The crazy thing is if they wouldve stayed where they were they would've all been completely fine. That was a sweet track though.

[@DannyBlock-l6s]

I was born two years after this race, and it was pretty bad of what happened that day. I never knew too much of this tragedy. But I do now, seeing that footage very earie.

[@amaccama3267]

As a racing driver myself I can't thank the guys and gal's who work or volunteer to help out enough. Without you we can't go racing.

[@GregBrownsWorldORacing]

There's no way Willy T should have taken any heat for this, though you hafta know it bothered him. Yes, I was watching that race, way back when. Nobody had halos back then except angels, You'd have gotten laughed out of the room for making such an unmanly suggestion.

[@Hammerhead547]

Racing will never return to vancouver unless a permanent facility is built, but the land values are far too high for that to happen in the GVRD. When Formula E announced it was coming too vancouver back in 2018 (on the original Molson Indy layout), locals actually sued the promoter and raised holy hell about the "inconvenience" of the event being hosted along false creek. In the end they bankrupted the promotor and ran fomula e off.

[@kristopherjohnston2216]

Too many residents complaining about the noise

[@Hammerhead547]

@kristopherjohnston2216 More along the lines of rich assholes who have the collective ear of city hall via "community outreach organizations" and abuse their power to try to keep out anything they personally don't like.

[@danielhenderson8316]

@@kristopherjohnston2216Which is a joke considering Formula E's noise level.

[@eddiecatflap3838]

Such a sad story. Those marshalls and track workers are so under-appreciated,,, even today

[@kristopherjohnston2216]

My parents took me & my sister to that race. It was the second time going over to Van , the first time was for Expo 86. I knew the marshal lost his life but never knew his name or full story of how he lost his life. Thanks for making this video.

[@EffequalsMA]

I attended that race and I remember the story going through the crowd there, just by word of mouth. Of course, no smartphones or internet to speed the story, just people talking to each other. It definitely marred the even for all of us.

[@patlatorres7000]

I remember when this incident happened and there is an additional piece of information which is not mentioned in this video. At the driver's meeting ALL of the drivers were informed NOT TO ENTER the chicane if a yellow flag was displayed near the entrance and to use the escape road to by-pass it. The appropriate yellow flag WAS DISPLAYED, but Willy T chose to use the chicane anyway! The fact is the incident occurred because one driver chose to ignore the instructions given!

[@seen48]

So sad and unbelievable how Cart handled or should I say didn’t handle that situation.

[@ald1144]

It makes me think of the Jonathan Pryce F1 accident in South Africa. Eager, completely well-meaning corner workers that were poorly trained and supervised. So sad for that guy and his family.

[@brandspro]

Whhhhhyyyy arrrrrreeeee yooouuuu speeeeaaakkking soooooo sloooowwly?

[@steveneppler5301]

I was at that corner the day before during qualification....It bothered me that they had concrete barriers set up instead of some kind of FIA spec low curbing...They were basically rolling through corner that blind because of the height of the barriers. Not saying that it would've prevented this incident, but it might've helped...Terrible tragedy.

[@Jasongilliar]

How can you not bring out at least a safety car or a red flag, i say even if it isnt that big, car faliures can still happend behind the safety car so i would always put red flag. (Australia f2 2023 crash) P.s. such a disrespect to the marshall, without them racing wouldnt even be possible

[@bradsanders407]

Officials were probably as shocked as Ribbs was to see 4 buffoons out there on a live track. Also you heard Ribbs crew chief say he couldn't hear them. So caution red yellow purple blue checkers wouldn't have mattered.

[@quicksesh]

how can they not have red flagged the race immediately once they had a report of track marshalls being involved in the incident - irrespective of their injuries. That said, marshalls should be drilled and drilled again that they do not cross or enter a live track without the race director acknowledging the track as being made a safe condition for personnel and or track equipment being on the track itself. It is basic safety as learned in the 1977 South African GP. And before people troll, I do not blame the marshalls themselves for this incident as they were reacting to a situation, but the race director and safety officers should all be held accountable for ensuring the safety of all participants in motorsports and as such culpable for the death of John Patrick Haine.

[@VeliusCoba]

Paused @7:55 @Black Flags Matter Thank You for this video Sir/Crew This was EXCELLENT! And Thank You for respectfully Censoring what you did I appreciate that! Your voice Is the story we dont need to see those peoples misfortunes and again. Thank you for that. I watched this Live sadly. Great Documentation.

[@VeliusCoba]

Live on "Tv"*

[@HOWNDOG66]

I remember that day as a race fan and BC resident. I’ll never understand why they would run across the track to push a dead car under green. Are they not given a safety briefing before the race with a list of do and don’t? We shouldn’t be surprised when these things happen when we ignore even simple things that would avoid it.

[@pete5534]

Extraordinarily sad event. Racing does not happen without course workers.

[@paulipuhakka8788]

I was at that race and saw the whole thing! I still see it.

[@jacekatalakis8316]

Not a tragedy in the sense of people died, but in the sense of so many beautiful cars got torn up and ruined in on the start in 95, and with the title batle to boot. Little Al always had the knack of winning Vancouver, for his last win with a team, Galles in 93 and Penske in 95 after the teams tried their hand at flying Indycars on the start that yearflying

[@comikdebris]

Tragic, I remember watching this race.

[@briantaylor9285]

Paul Page has seen some seriously messed up things in his career.

[@chrisstopher2277]

Damn, I didn't know Denver ever had a race downtown. Downtown Denver is so fucked now. I work downtown and there literally 100s of young poor immigrants all on 16th st begging for money. Like these kids are probably 16-18 and they always have like 3 children somehow sitting on the ground together. Sometimes i walk by them and it looks like a act to get more money because it's literally every block on 16th st there's a combo of 2 very young parents with like 3 children ages 2-5. It's depressing as shit. I saw this on youtube awhile ago I didn't know the dude died. That's really sad that there is no picture of him though. Shouldn't there be a memorial for lost workers or drivers in motorsports?

[@alanluscombe8a553]

I’ve seen the video and it’s awful. Idk why they tried running right in front of the car though

[@doopyiscool]

Hi

[@stev3548]

Racing will never return to vancouver. They tried Formula E recently. And even though it was all set up, ready to go, plans in motion. The Vancouver City Council broke the contract and cancelled the event because the electric race cars would be too loud for the city. Actual race cars have zero chance.

[@paatracing9508]

on the internet? was there even high-speed reliable Internet back then?

[@cseabrook3]

Didn’t have halos back then

[@bradsanders407]

Truly one of the dumber fatalities in racing. That and the f1 fire extinguisher incident. I'll never understand running out on to a live track when everyone is fine and not in imminent danager.

[@alaricbragg7843]

Thanks for this video. Ribbs was arrogant and irresponsible as much as CART.

[@jaylagaskins5049]

😱😱😱😱😱😢😢😢😢😢

[@Papparratzi]

The “ love “ of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

[@michaelkohl1541]

It would have been most respectful if people could at least know how to spell the guy's last name.

[@jimmccauley9099]

What is the point of this video. People die everyday doing different things. What should the sanctioning body have done? If you knew the man, condolences, anybody else just move on. Something like this just brings back the hurt. Think back to when your dog died. Feel better, l hope so.

[@Hammerhead547]

This event is why I hate willy t ribbs on a basic human level. I lived in winnipeg when this happened (it was the lead story all across canada that night) and I remember how he lied to literally everyone from his team to CART to the media and the cops, then tried to play the victim when the crown prosecution service announced they were considering manslaughter charges against him. He 100% deserved to have his career ruined by this because it was his own incompetence and negligence that killed someone.

[@extragoogleaccount6061]

Wait…what did the driver do wrong??

[@Hammerhead547]

@@extragoogleaccount6061 There's no way he didn't see the course worker in his mirrors and was too stupid to stop and allow them to get out of the way. Then he lied through his teeth too pretty much everyone who investigated the incident, and then he accused the VPD and Crown Prosecution Service of being "racist" for investigating him on potential manslaughter charges (which he later bought his way out of by paying the family of the guy he killed $250.000) because they caught him in enough lies that they believed that it was at the very least a case of criminally negligent vehicular homicide. Oh, and he also skipped town after being told to remain in vancouver by the VPD and CPS while he was being investigated, then when he showed up the next year he threw a giant strop about the fact they had issued a warrant for his arrest because he absconded. The whole thing showed what a truly vile human being he is.

[@coyy9106]

@@Hammerhead547When exactly was he meant to see the marshalls in his mirrors? Do you mean when they made contact with his car? Because if so, he didn’t really have time to react to that.