The Inevitable Downfall Of Westworld

At it's peak, HBO's Westworld was one of the most popular shows on TV. After the first season of Westworld though, audience interest quickly started to fall. And after an unfortunate natural disaster at the filming location, Westworld never quite recovered. But was Westoworld always doomed to fall off into obscurity? Or did HBO just not give the creators enough runway to make the show live up to it's full potential?
#westworld #hbomax #westworldhbo #nerdstalgic
Sources
web.archive.org/web/201410150...
web.archive.org/web/202211042...

[@BingBong422]

I will always argue that Westworld season 1 should have been a standalone miniseries

[@RobertoCarlos-tn1iq]

yup. add maybe 3 more episodes and call it a day.

[@darrenh85]

It basically is. It's a complete story. I wish this video had touched on that a little more.

[@gabrielscoccola5960]

I'll also argue that it would have been even better without the Maeve storyline.

[@BingBong422]

yeah I agree but they should have stopped after season 1@@darrenh85

[@BigMek667]

I just decided for myself that it is 😂

[@Thx1138sober]

Season 1: some of the best tv ever Season 2: what a mess There was a season 3 and 4?

[@Timeculture]

😂 yes! Btw how did season 2 end?

[@javierel22]

Stopped watching after season 2. Can't believe the weird sci-fi turn they gave it

[@Thx1138sober]

@@Timeculture As I remember, the Indians went into cyberspace, there were samurai and Bernard remembered something or did something.

[@jerk1921]

@@Timeculture Who Cares!

[@ArcanePath360]

Gave up half way through episode 2 of season 2. It was like a whole different show and was obviously made by a different team of writers who had no idea what they were doing. That's how I perceived it anyway.

[@bencarlson4300]

I’ve still only ever seen season 1 of Westworld, and it honestly works for me as a stand-alone miniseries. Most of the character arcs are resolved, and it ends perfectly. We know where this is all going by the end of that first season, I didn’t feel the need to watch any more, but I’ve rewatched that first season a few times.

[@ScotBotAI]

Give the second season a chance. It's not as bad as the reviews make out and there's some really great parts in it that are as good as anything in season 1.

[@thevikingbear2343]

I would tecpmmend you to watch Season 4 to see what happens afterwards. Definitely skip 3 and read what happens in Season 2 which is not much.

[@patrickaker4380]

Right there with ya. Didn’t watch 1 till season 2 was released. Started it and loved season 1. The first episode of the second season turned me off.

[@VinnyBloo]

The first season is good? After the first episode, I said, "Okay, got it."

[@bencarlson4300]

@@VinnyBloo It's a bit up its own ass at times, but overall its very compelling. Primarily the character interactions and acting are what stand out imo.

[@arthurg7894]

The writers tried to outsmart the reddit sub, that's what I remember happening. It was such an utter mess

[@jimjam51075]

Oh, I forgot about that. It was as pathetic as watching someone try boxing themselves in a mirror.

[@Dranomoly]

this was a big part of it.

[@Geep1778]

Yes! And in so doing flushed amazing potential down the toilet

[@JacobSantosDev]

Yeah. I was there when someone predicted the ending of the first season with the second or third episode.

[@acerimmer8338]

That's the same thing that happened w/ season 7 and especially 8 in Game of Thrones. Who cares if some random chud on the internet figured out the story?! 99% never did or don't care and just wanna see the best conclusion.

[@the_stewbear]

Glad I’m not the only one that noticed the rather abrupt decline in this show’s writing direction. It had so much cool potential after the first season that it unfortunately didn’t live up to.

[@KingsizeKini]

I think because the first season is a perfect self contained story that didn't need a sequel

[@paulw5039]

@@KingsizeKini Like so many movies or TV shows. The Matrix being possibly the best example of this.

[@dominiquepowell3158]

Agree! I noticed it after season 3 and I was done.

[@mavster78]

@@KingsizeKini Yeah, I'm in that boat

[@mavster78]

@@paulw5039 Oh yeah, 2 and 3 were mostly forgettable, confusing and unnecessary ... with maybe the car scene in 2 being the only redeeming factor. The less we talk about 4....

[@loui4898]

Main problem is they got rid of Ford way too soon. Lack of philosophical discussions ended with him.

[@dan_hitchman007]

Hopkins was far too expensive a get, even though he was a wonderful villain and he acted amazingly well, and they had to slash the budget in Season 2.

[@hnnsy]

@@dan_hitchman007 interesting you see him as a villain. Always thought he was somewhere in between a villain and hero. Maybe even more a hero if anything. If memory serves. Been a while since I saw it.

[@nickgates4259]

I think we all collectively had the same thought at the end of season 1. “Wow that was great but damn they kinda blew their whole load. That should’ve been the series finale”

[@Daniel-rp7nb]

100%

[@AbstractEntityJ]

I felt the same way at the end of The Mandalorian season 2.

[@nickgates4259]

@@AbstractEntityJ I was onboard for more Mandalorian after season 2 but then Boba Fett killed all that enthusiasm and what I heard of season 3 sealed the deal forever

[@tteros5998]

turns out all those british TV shows that had 2 season runs with 6 episodes a piece kinda had the right idea

[@brysonfreeman7226]

Yes, should’ve stopped after Season 1

[@ianm1462]

Westworld is a great example of ‘have a good answer to the questions you’re asking before you go into production’. Such an interesting premise with no satisfying answers a la Lost, Raised by Wolves, Heroes, Walking Dead, etc.

[@haraldcarlsten6238]

@@user-eq2hj6uy7p Wow! That is a great reflection. JJ Abrams. The nemesis of great content. When everything starts it is all shiny and new with great questions. And then it collapses. Like a flan in the cupboard...

[@sackthebastard]

Lost answers all its questions

[@WaterspoutsOfTheDeep]

Well raised by wolves had all the seasons planned out in detail. The problem was we never got to see it all come together.

[@87lostfan]

Lost answered it's questions.

[@bsaintnyc]

westworld answered almost every question every season , except for the questions related to the final storyline that was going to be resolved in s5. what are you talking about?

[@yolocards2]

Westworld was Heroes 2.0 Game Changing First Season but got progressively worse and worse

[@thevikingbear2343]

The later half of Season 4 was very good. Having an "utopia" where the machines are in control and humanity is trapped in story loops like the hosts of seaspn 1 is a great conclusion to Westworld. Specially with the reat of humans living in the mAd-Max style of real world but it was roo little too late. The problem is that Season 3 killed the momentum. You can skip season 3 and nothing changes actually. Dolores is the only bad part of Seaspn 4 and is the only thing that carries form Season 3 so we could skip her and it would be great actually. Which is sad because Dolores is the MVP of Season 1.

[@Pedant_Patrol]

The big writer's strike impacted Heroes. Not sure what WW's excuse is.

[@Henbot]

Season 3 was way better than season 2 and the problem is that the first season was so great they couldn’t match it.

[@Henbot]

@@thevikingbear2343Not really, the problem is season 3 was reset for season 4 so it seemed pointless when it actually was really solid revolutionary conclusion

[@Raider1961]

Whoever wrote and produced the last two seasons, totally needs to be fired and have their butts kicked last two seasons sucked

[@mattcool97]

the problem is that there were so many twists that twists became expected and therefore no plot point had any emotional weight to it because at any time the show could just go "ACTUALLY, THAT WAS JUST A SIMULATION!" or "ACTUALLY, SHE HAD A BACKUP ROBOT BODY IN A HIDDEN LOCATION SO SHE NEVER DIED" or "AND THEN THEY BROUGHT HIM BACK TO LIFE AS A SIMULATION" etc. etc. The twists started to feel increasingly arbitrary.

[@SKROTZILLA]

the main problem with Westworld is me shouting "you will call her" every time I see Jimmi Simpson

[@oliverbagersted2396]

Indeed, McPoyle Are doing crazy shit om Westworld

[@tagguh1]

YOU WILL CALL HERRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[@Germeezy]

@@tagguh1Jesus man, I’m sorry. fine I’ll call her 😂

[@genius2012]

😂😂😂

[@fredskull1618]

He’s dead to me. He’s deeeeEEEEEAAAAAAAADDD

[@UsiQuotidiani.18]

it isn't about "too many plot lines" it was about quality. Season one had an interesting concept, which you explored with the characters, the other seasons were just a stylistic exercise, without any meaning, it all felt hollow

[@montenegroafro4454]

This! This is the perfect explanation to a T! Season 1 was beautifully well written with story and character arcs, season 2 had too many conclusions but imo ended the westworld story definitively. Season 3 was a waste of time, and I didn’t care to watch season 4.

[@minyaksayur]

@@montenegroafro4454 the genre shifted from the title "westworld", season 2 is in the themepark, but season 3 and 4 it's just normal generic scifi show, I can't tell the difference between westworld or it's terminator the birth of skynet. lol.

[@neglectfulsausage7689]

They tried to give black actors and actresses much bigger roles for Woke reasons,a nd doing that is what killed it. Whenever a show goes off the rails this bad, its probably DEI lurking.

[@Ocean5ix]

That’s one way to say a lot of stuff without saying anything. I keep seeing comments saying this very same thing yet nobody points out what they disliked so much. My conclusion is that people simply got too attached to the western themed park and didn’t even bother with the sci fi themes of the rest of the show. You speak as if there was no “concept” in later seasons. Season 2 the concept was to explore how machines access stored information/memories, which is done in a non-linear way, hence why the timelines are jumbled, because we’re watching from the perspective of Bernard who is trying to remember what happened and in what order. The post park concept was about how data was being gathered in the parked and used in the real world. Serac and Rehoboam calculated a path for humanity’s survival and found one way (kinda like Paul Atreides in Dune), that way included tons of self fulfilling “prophecies” and manipulation. I don’t know how sci fi fans can dislike the entirety of Westworld. But I do see how people that watched for the “Clint Eastwood movie vibes” disliked the rest.

[@andrew5500]

@@Ocean5ix Yeah I see complaints about the "weird sci-fi turn" in S3 and S4, and I'm wondering, what "turn"?? It's been hard sci-fi cyberpunk concepts from the very beginning. How can people watch a season about a future corporation making androids with sentient AI, and then get all surprised when it turns into a story about that sentient AI emerging into the real world. I swear some people grew way too attached to the "loop" of the park in Season 1 when the show was in Groundhog Day mode, and while that part of the show was very well done, the whole point is escaping those predetermined loops, in and outside the park.

[@Schopenhauer667]

I tell you what happened, "Ninja Maeve". That is when the series died for me.

[@tobiaschurch8848]

Stopped at season 1. Now I get to remember Westworld as a gem😅

[@goldfishy]

Watch Kitsuya episode from season 2. Self contained mostly and a masterpiece.

[@brysonfreeman7226]

Should’ve ended (stopped) after Season 1

[@jimlamb7642]

I did likewise and still remember it fondly.

[@Xantar]

Season 1 was great, but season 2 demonstrated that the writers didn’t actually have anything to say. All they had was tricks to bamboozle the audience about what’s happening. The time shifts and memory tricks had a point in Season 1, but after that it was just a gimmick.

[@eyesaac965]

I find it funny that Jonathan Nolan is now directing the Fallout TV show, y'know the Sci-Fi dystopia that leans heavily on themes from old westerns 😂

[@MrAthul22]

And once again season 1 is a success

[@cain666]

I am afraid to start watching

[@billcook8136]

and he is using the same formula that killed west world.

[@satnav9699]

If you watch closely then the Man in black is very similar to the Ghoul

[@Prince36300]

@@MrAthul22 It was (and I enjoyed it) but there are some weird/head scratching questions at the end and the big revelation just doesnt make any logical sense (unless the characters are idiots). Im a bit worried after watching this

[@reim1004]

Westworld only has 1 Season for me and I'm happy with that

[@Timeculture]

😂😂😂😂😅😂😂😅😂😂😅😂me toooooo

[@brysonfreeman7226]

Yes, should’ve stopped after Season 1

[@Senor0Droolcup]

They should’ve just kept the storyline in the park rather than trying to tell the same story as Blade Runner. they could’ve kept slowly revealing mysteries of the park for season after season and audiences would’ve loved it

[@marklarner4495]

Completely agree with that, plus they could have had so many different scenarios of AI gaining consciousness; good, evil, benign, power hungry, apathetic and on and on.....

[@joshtiscareno1312]

Yep. Westworld was what people came to see. Taking the action outside of the simulation takes away from the allure of the initial concept. There are more sci-fi dystopias than you can shake a stick at, but Westworld is the only one that takes place in a cowboy theme park full of androids that have developed sentience. Take that away, and you just become another generic sci-fi show.

[@marklarner4495]

@@joshtiscareno1312 I know it's not going to happen, but how about a prequel reboot. Good writing and one third the budget would be a winner for me.

[@cmbaz1140]

Hopkins had too much presence the hole after he left couldnt be filled. Ed Harris was also amazing... The moment these two were no more was the moment the show was gone...

[@ScentlessSun]

Agreed. These two actors had an enormous presence on the show. Especially Hopkins.

[@atomicsmith]

Agreed. The broader cast was very good, but Hopkins in season one was sublime. How could you top that?

[@shuttittuppitt9355]

_Disagreed._ Those 2 are good actors who played good roles in this, but for me personally, Evan Rachel Wood was _my_ main character.

[@Ganggangbuzzbuzz]

@@shuttittuppitt9355 all the actors were solid, it was just all over the place what they had to make make sense to us

[@elscruffomcscruffy8371]

Apparently even Ed Harris was annoyed and frustrated with how and what his character was doing. Like Peter Dinklage with the imbecile D&D writers, he started questioning his own characters judgement and was clueless!

[@Forysan]

Westworld seemed to suffer the fate of other "saga driven" genre shows (GoT, BSG '05, etc.): The production team simply wrote themselves into a corner. They upped the stakes and story arcs way too early, thereby leaving nowhere interesting left to take it.

[@MrEwragg]

I don’t feel like that’s the issues GOT has. In fact, if anything, the build is incredible for at least the first 4/5 seasons (personally I love the 6th as well) It’s issues were : 1. trying to subvert expectations as opposed to finishing off character arcs 2. Bringing back small part characters because they were popular despite them having no narrative function 3. Rushing the end Most of those can be put down to the fact they were following a blueprint but then there was no blueprint and they had to make it up. I also think they fundamentally missed the point. It isn’t game of thrones, it is a song of ice and fire. The throne is a distraction from the main threat not the main threat itself. Killing off the white walkers so early was, honestly, sacrilege

[@williamapple7705]

GoT and Westworld both suffered from leaning really hard into their female empowerment characters for the sake of the plot. To be clear, I love stories about women that are empowering. But it shouldn’t surprise people that as Westworld and GoT went harder into their empowerment messaging and focus on their strong women characters, the writing simultaneously takes a clear dip in quality. It happened all over the industry, but it’s interesting to see it happened to 2 of the biggest shows under the same production house at the same time.

[@paulw5039]

@@williamapple7705 The problem is Hollywood 'empowerment' invariably means writing a Mary Sue character. Good characters need flaws and complexities (for one thing, when the character succeeds despite these things it's a much more satisfying journey). They think empowerment means removing these elements.

[@battlep0t]

​@@williamapple7705 The problem with Game of Thrones wasn't female empowerment. George RR Martin was a huge advocate of female characters having several with POV chapters in the books. The problem was the showrunners running out of book material so they had to write original content. They sacrificed the shows core strength with was character building and political intrigue for the sake of plot and rushed about 3 seasons worth of content in 13 episodes because they wanted to finish so they could move onto Star Wars. Certain plot threads could have worked if given the time to develop them but because they were so rushed they felt out of character. Pretty much every single character in the show - male and female - got completely flanderised in the last two seasons. The only two who had satisfying endings were Theon and Brienne.

[@bb1111116]

@@battlep0t ; in a way Westworld suffered from the same problem as GOT. Westworld ran out of material and so the writers needed to create a different path which wasn’t as unique. After all, Blade Runner already convered the issues of human like androids in a city.

[@akenproductions9945]

I feel like by the time season two rolls round they should’ve just let go of the idea of blowing everyone’s mind with a time gap twist like they did in season one and just carried forward with Bernard story at the center. The separate timelines of Bernard doesn’t work because Jeffrey Wright barely changes between the scenes. We literally can’t tell if we’ve jumped back in time or is this just a continuation because Jeffrey Wright looks the same!

[@charlesjmouse]

Season 1 - The best TV in years..? Season 2 - I'm embarrassed to report how long it took me to realise what an empty and meaningless imitation it was of the first season. No, I didn't watch any more. In short - either the makers ran out of talent and ideas, or never had any and Season 1 was just a moment of lightning in a bottle.

[@GlassGhost428]

Season 1: Crap Other Seasons: Ever more crap Show sucked from the beginning. "Best TV in years" lol no

[@Daniel-rp7nb]

@@GlassGhost428can’t imagine why you are watching this video then. Also, did you really watch the later seasons, or even the end of S1 if you thought it was all crap? If so, why?

[@nickb.235]

The show went from a poetic exercise loaded with literary references in season 1 to "murder the patriarchy" in season 2 to whatever walking corpse cosplaying as cyberpunk it became after that. I don't think it needed to stay married to a western theme, nor am I opposed to the androids rebelling, but they lost a lot of fun, fertile ground in season 2 by not exploring any of the other hosts gaining conscience and not seeing other sectors of the island.

[@Bgrosz1]

Absolutely. They needed to take the premise / story arc of season 1 and stretch it out / flesh it out. They painted themselves in a corner by having the robot uprising at the end of the first season.

[@Daniel-rp7nb]

YES! Stay in the park/s! Missed out on that. S1 could have ended with it seeming like the park controllers have got it back under control, but now it’s spilled to other areas… with a few new characters…

[@jimjam51075]

That was my takeaway halfway through the first episode of season 2. Woman robot wipes out a group of mostly men, makes a speech about oppression afterward, rinse and repeat.

[@Gubbinsmcbumbersnoot]

The problem is, they COMPLETELY changed the setting, characters and plot for season 2. It was like I was watching a different show entirely. A cyberpunk show. That was called west world…

[@dan_hitchman007]

One of the many narrative problems centered around Dolores. In the first season, you sympathized with her plight to realize her freedom and her sentience. Then Nolan and Joy completely flipped the script and made her a megalomaniacal villain starting in Season 2, undercutting the audience's good will.

[@joshfactor1]

apparently, they had just one more season before they reached their planned ending & despite the ups & downs, i still want to see what that finale would look like

[@Magdalena8008s]

We will see it. Jonah Nolan has said they have full plans to tell the whole story. They only had one season left. And they said they will do it one way or another.

[@Marcusml333]

@@Magdalena8008s But how, though?

[@Deadpool784]

​@@Magdalena8008s When did he say that?

[@GothPaoki]

For eye's sake i hope we don't get to see it..

[@GlassGhost428]

If it was anything like Episode 1, Season 1 then I'm guessing it would look like trash

[@stebesplace]

I always felt it should have just been a 10-12 run mini-series with 1-1.5hr episodes where season 1 and part of 2 was it, with the ending being the man in black reveal. I think more people would have gravitated towards that, but who knows.

[@tjjones33]

westworld season 1 was one of the greatest seasons of television period. I really wish they ended at season 1

[@GPlewright]

Westworld was based on a film which was written by Michael Crichton of Jurassic Park. The tv series expanded the story and themes in intriguing and fascinating ways. Season 2 was traditionally how the story concludes - robots go bad (dinosaurs escape) - people must survive the park and escape. Lesson is - don’t try play God, you can’t control everything. Season 3 actually builds on that theme but storywise it’s very different from what came before so too different.

[@ericlarson7556]

Lost the West in Westworld and the series fell soon after. This self contained story narrative in season 1 pales in comparison to the series losing the western roots. Robots and westerns. It works for a passionate niche audience that I am proud to be part of.

[@throwawaysupreme9400]

One massive caveat to that viewership figure is that Westworld began running on Sunday 9pm in the same slot as Game of Thrones while it was off season.

[@Bjorn_R]

I dont even have a problem with the sci fi direction. I just think season 2 and 3 were lame. Dolores and Mave girlbossing all over the place... While Bernard just turned into a bumbling idiot.

[@soutarm]

...and pissing on The Man in Black.

[@user-mq4xp1gq3q]

There was signs of that in season 1 where the technicians seemed to have been written to do nonsense things just so Maeve character plot could happen. It felt very contrived and was easily my biggest gripe with season 1. I only made it to S02E01 and stopped there.

[@kdm_entertainment]

First season was a masterpiece

[@btafan11]

Meh, it's overrated. So repetitive, stretched thin, slow and self-important

[@Larry]

I hated the third season so much, I couldn't even be bothered to tune into the fourth. Ite's really one of those shows that should have nicely wrapped up in one season, like Heroes, instead of being run into the ground, like Heroes.

[@PanteraRossa]

People act like just because a show got cancelled it never happened. I know and am equally frustrated about great shows I've invested time into not being able to finish the story, but for what its worth, without streaming and new business opportunities lots of these ambitious projects would simply never have been made. Yes streaming is just the latest amongs the declining promise of innovation but at the same time, we have gotten so many incredibly niche and arthouse project getting hundreds of millions in budget and in front of audience numbers unimaginable in the legacy media age. People love to talk about streaming ruining everything but in reality, everything was being ruined before, streaming only allowed new voices an opportunity to be part of a crumbling building. People all of the sudden idolize the "monoculture" phenomenon as if it wasn't extremely rigged and exclusive to a specific industry apporved artists and storytellers. At least with streaming, just by definition, you're opening up more opportunities to new voices and new ideas. Yes not every film can be Avatar, but its not like in traditional legacy media there weren't instantly forgettable crap also. Creators should worry more about creating and not industry and consumer trends they literally have no control over. Worrying even for a second about where, how people will watch your final product, whether they'll pay for a ticket or subscription model, all these things have zero bearing on the artistic intent and process is a serious waste of your energy. Only the 1% top filmmakers already priviledged enough to get theatrical releases and exclusive development deals ever complain about new distribution models democratizing access to large audiences. They wanna protect their priviledge. Pure and simple. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

[@Yoho96]

This was my favorite show it was awesome but s1 was by far the best

[@anubusx]

Same here.

[@GarfieldRex]

Raised by Wolves still makes me cry there's no ending 😭😭😭

[@jerk1921]

Yeah, Because Ridley Skott directed that show. Then I am sure that he handed it off to some typical tv show studio from there. .. Because he could not have even accidentally made a season 2 that was that pointless.

[@frogman9989]

Yeah... I was disappointed they ended that show also. I really wanted questions answered.

[@tjk3430]

I really want to know how RBW would have ended story wise.

[@elscruffomcscruffy8371]

Yet, Westworld is rewarded with 4-5 seasons of garbage

[@tjk3430]

@@elscruffomcscruffy8371 I gotta defend S3. Ep titled Genre was a masterstroke.

[@HomeworkRadio]

That first season was TV gold

[@thomasleukart1755]

What killed the series was the lack of Anthony Hopkins

[@Notsosweetstevia]

Never bothered to watch season 4. Don’t think I ever will

[@throwawaysupreme9400]

It was actually pretty decent. Some interesting technological ideas with stylised execution.

[@Camw101]

It was good until the very end

[@ChaosAndChill]

Ngl I forgot there was a season 4 I thought it ended at 3 😂

[@BCWasbrough]

Westworld slowly transforming itself into The Matrix was fascinating to watch. Shame they couldn't stick the landing.

[@jonnnnniej]

I'm just now finding out there's a 4th season 🙈

[@chris.shamblin]

I remember during the development of the first season, they announced that they were re-tooling the back half of the season to have a faster pace, among other changes...and you can really tell. I think the first half of the first season is some of the best television that HBO (or any network, for that matter) has ever made, but the back half feels different and fails to live up to it. So, I don't think the first season as a whole is as perfect as people think, nor do I think the problems started with the second season. The problems started after just a few episodes.

[@Malum09]

Honestly I feel it suffers the “we have run out of material to adapt so we are going to make it up as we go.” Also, did you know that in the late '00s Tarantino was attached to direct a remake of the movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger as the man in black? In the end it didn’t happen because Tarantino wanted a darker take on the material but the studio didn’t.

[@Kryxx07]

A Tarantino Westworld would have been awesome.

[@marklarner4495]

@@Kryxx07 Yes it would, Is it really to late

[@rockstar6790]

The issue with Westworld is that it got too ambitious with its storyline (similar to Heroes and Lost).

[@SourRobo8364]

I've rewatched season 1 so many times. Showing it to just about anyone. Never gets old to me.

[@somewittyfella5118]

There's also the matter of how a Reddit user figured out where the story was going and the creative duo had to redo their entire plan for the rest of the series. Which to me is just silly. If we're really gonna start allowing the internet to dictate storytelling like this, then why tell the story at all?

[@truejim]

I think the series needed a smarter over-arching structure for the plot, even if that meant leaving some characters behind. Like: Season 1 is about the hosts gaining sentience; Season 2 is about society in general responding intelligently to this unforeseen development, and about the park owners specifically responding to the fact that their intended plans are now at risk; while at the same time the hosts try to learn what the real-world is, and try to figure out what to do with all their non-sentient brethren (should they try to activate them?); Season 3 is about all these various groups coming into conflict (society in general, park owners, sentient hosts, non-sentient hosts), either overtly (which would have been expensive to film) or covertly (which would have required some suspension of disbelief on the part of the viewers). INSTEAD what we got was a rubbish plot written in service to existing characters, rather than characters developed to serve a sensible plot. I would LOVE to watch the show that could-have-been.

[@universalcommentator]

The problem was the writers thought they were smarter than they actually were

[@ChaosAndChill]

This part lol I remember reading how up in arms the Nolan’s got about Reddit figuring out the man in black reveal early that they intentionally made season 2 convoluted just to stay a step ahead. Like adding scenes meant to be red herrings etc for Reddit 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@madprophetus]

As writers almost always do.

[@sproductionsinc]

While I enjoyed the first, it all just felt like a simple concept being explored in the most convoluted way possible.

[@sproductionsinc]

@@ChaosAndChill I could see being disappointed about that since it was such a big reveal. It definitely should've been executed better.

[@TomCruz54321]

The plot got way too convoluted. The seasons should have been simple: Season 1 - Robots gain consciousness Season 2 - Revolt. Ends with robots escaping the park Season 3 - Robots get revenge on humans. Violence justified or not? Season 4 - Pick a winner. Robots or humans? If you want to copout, call a draw.

[@khanindustries]

I loved season 1, but they killed the whole Westworld feel after that. I wish they stayed in the Westworld setting and focused on a new major character with a different story to tell each season.

[@ironicstatement]

They also leaned heavily into the girl boss fad of late 2010s. We like character development, not hard for writers to understand

[@Bgrosz1]

Is that fad over? Seems like it just kept on going, destroying every form of media in its path.

[@isthatyoursomnomnom]

What's the opposite of "girl boss" ?

[@berserk4souls]

@@isthatyoursomnomnom”big boy”

[@ironicstatement]

@@isthatyoursomnomnom an interesting female character

[@isthatyoursomnomnom]

@@ironicstatement what are some examples of the two? (no snark, genuine request)

[@Dansuperfly]

I was just rewatching it yesterday. Honestly I feel the reason I love season 2 so much is because I started watching the show altogether because I came across this “birth of rehoboam” and “incite anthem” videos. That was my very first experience with it. Then I saw this scene when Anthony Hopkins lectures this guy about what makes people come into the park. I gotta be honest I was a bit hesitant at first but that scene right there was everything I needed to get started. The way they portray self awareness in the hosts was cool but my expectations were to stumble upon clues about rehoboam within the park, and when they slowly reveal their data storage and how this huge story was nothing but a way to collect it for a greater purpose, that’s what really got me hyped, and so when we get to season 2 and discover the whole “library” and what they were doing with Delos, that was peak for me. And unfortunately, we got to a rushed and poorly told season 3, which broke my heart. And now I understand why. If only they would’ve hinted the whole rehoboam narrative from the very beginning, it wouldn’t have been so confusing to follow along, but rather it would’ve made everyone see the show as I did. Had the show been released today leveraging on the whole AI notice as it is recently, it would’ve been the show of the fcking century. Sadly, even if the show had been handled better, it’s too good for most people to even appreciate. It’s like trying to use a whole bulldozer and engineering drawing to build a dog’s house. People’s intellect just keeps it from being worth making anyways.

[@warrenthoms8423]

Season 2 lost its direction and season 3 just fell off a cliff

[@julius-stark]

I really liked the first season after it gets going, but season 2 onwards was so convoluted and purposefully confusing that I stopped caring.

[@nemesisa-type6721]

The show definitely felt like it had it’s beginning, middle, and end in season 1. Then HBO said “yeah we’re gonna need a 2…” then they improvised everything from there.

[@bobwiegers]

Yup. Season 1 was great. Season 2 was fine. The first episode of Season 3 made it very clear it would be unwatchable. I had no idea they made a Season 4.

[@skyguyflyinghigh]

i think many "modern" writers for movies make the mistake of thinking subverting expectations = good. so they end up pulling things out their ass just to surprise the viewer. just because it's a surprise doesn't make it not stupid, or a good character arc or not a plothole or automatically entertaining, i can pee in your cereals and that will certainly subvert your expectations of not having pee in it but i doubt you'd enjoy it, i could also subvert your expectations by adding a few drops of vanilla essence and a lil sugar and you enjoy it. we've got so obsessed with "i must subvert tropes because that's good and makes me feel/look smart" instead of "some tropes/cliches exist for a reason, because they're enjoyable, and if i want to subvert them i have to do it right, i can't automatically make my story good by diverging from things that usually make one unless im smart and want to make a critique" cliches exist for a reason, because they're fun and effective, sometimes things are mainstream because they're just good.

[@randomnobodovsky3692]

Some of the tropes exist yet still subvert expectations. E.g. fall of any good/pure person (which is as old as story of Lucifer if not older). It still works fine!

[@Gersheyz]

I'm one of the few loyal viewers who rewatched every previous season when a new one came out, and was hoping they would be able to finish off their final season. The entire series was pretty much planned from the beginning, and even though many people gave up on it, it would have been nice to see where all of the twists were leading up to. Game of Thrones failed in it's final seasons because they didn't have anymore source material to pull from and focused heavily on subverting expectations instead of paying off established threads and stories that were setup. They were given essentially a blank check to keep going, even though D and D were running it into ground and wanted to kill it off so they could go work on other projects. Westworld was much more intentional and rewarded people who wanted to follow along with actual payoffs. Studio execs cared more about viewership numbers than actually letting a planned ending take it's course and let them finish their meticulous philosophical story. I understand they saw it as a monetary loss, but they killed the artistic saga right as it was on it's final season.

[@Caliban_80]

Season 1 was one of the best of any series I've seen.

[@NitroMorrison17]

They had crapton of money for season one and a small fraction of that in season 4. The show was killed by greed first and foremost. Seasons 3 and 4 is what you get when a big budget concept gets cut.

[@FreefallSC]

That first season is still one of the greatest seasons of television of all time. Fantastic show if you just don’t watch anything past that. Everything wraps up anyways.

[@ls6097]

The first season was pretty riveting...it became entirely self-serving after that and overrun by "the message".

[@thepolacek]

They never should have left the “worlds.” Going into the city was dumb and it got so convoluted.

[@obienator]

This show had a stunning pilot and amazing first season, and then fizzled and died so awfully. Still not right what HBO did to the show and erased it from existence.

[@AmanCreatesArt]

You nailed it. I loved season 1, but season 2 rehashed the parallel timelines for absolutely no good reason. One of the coolest things about season 1 was now pointless and only served to make the story unnecessarily confusing. I didn't come back for season 3.

[@Naomi_Huerta]

i personally loved season 2. i thought it was a great follow up to season 1. But season 3 and 4 seemed like the creators were intentionally dumbing it down in response to criticism that the show had become \

[@sdHansy]

SPAM-BOT!!

[@thevikingbear2343]

Season 4 was great. You can skip Seaspn 3 and Westowrld as a trilogy is vaslty superior. Also you dont need season 3 because the big braing orve computer doesnt even matter. Seaspn 4 mind-control system of flies made by Valkyrire is a way better inversion of Seaspn 1 than what Season 3 made.

[@carrisebear3499]

We wanted a Jurassic Park/ Westworld tie-in. That would have fixed the stale, how-will-they-escape-the-park nature by introducing a repetitive plot structure that works.

[@alkohal]

I felt like season 4 was on its way to course correction and then CANCELLED

[@OgYokYok]

Somewhere in the middle of season three, when I was wondering why I wasn’t really hooked at all, was the realization that some tv writers weren’t going to have any deeper insight into the meaning of sentience.

[@MarcPagan]

Westworld's later seasons reminds of Fauda's 4th season - 100% filler, riding on its prior success. Thanks for a well presented but sad story.

[@Bgrosz1]

They painted themselves in the corner with the first season. I was wondering at the end of season 1 how they could possibly move forward from there. The robot uprising began, but the robots clearly had no chance. I figured they had to come up with some convoluted (see unbelievable) reason that they couldn't just track down and destroy all the robots and that's exactly what they did. What the heck could you do from there though? I watched about five episodes of season 2 and thought "I was right, they have nowhere to go", and then stopped watching. They needed to stretch out the story arc of season 1 over the full run and had the robot uprising happen in the final episode. They probably could have gotten a good four season out of it if they were clever about it.

[@wasusapsupan2643]

I made in through the first half of S2 then quitted and never looked back. What really killed it for me was "every single f-*king human is robot" plot twist.

[@atomicsmith]

Season one was writing HUGE conceptual checks. Season two and beyond, they all bounced. Also, Hopkins in season one was amazing. Maybe one of his best performances in my opinion. There was no way to top that…

[@billhinshillwood2670]

Westworld had an amazing first season, and in particular might have had the greatest pilot episode of all time. Each following season got worse and worse.

[@GondolaParadiso]

I agree about the first episode. It was really well done. I found that each episode after the first was just more and more boring. Never finished the first season. Ultimately I just did not care what happened to the characters and the mystery of the maze made no sense to me. Watching this video I see the 2 timeline things and wonder if the "big revel" would have changed my view of it and... no, still don't care.

[@MaximumAxiom]

Westworld got worse the further it got away from its core fantasy, which was exploring the theme park. I think Hunger Games also had the exact same issue, it got worse the further away it got from the arena. I think the fatal flaw was that the showrunners didn't believe the park was the main hook, and they doubled down on that mistake every season after the first.

[@brysonfreeman7226]

I totally agree, Westworld and The Hunger Games have gotten progressively worse

[@charles24852]

With the release and success of the fallout series I wouldn't be surprised if HBO re thinks letting them finish westworlds story. Season 4 is underrated in my opinion and felt a return to form of the likes of Season 1 and the final season could be amazing given the ending of season 4.

[@joeporter4920]

Nolan proves in season one that he doesn’t need to compete directly with his brother but then gives up on that in the rest of the seasons.

[@Hazard2005]

Overall I really did enjoy the series but looking back, Season 1 was the shows peak. Would have loved to have seen a season 5 still though.

[@ssmith8758]

The first season was so incredible!!!😍

[@ULTRAOutdoorsman]

"Jonathan Nolan is a great writer!" "For you"

[@noumena6456]

The biggest problem was 1. Too much time between seasons and 2. Nolan-Joy were too reactive to critics after every season.

[@inelegy]

"'Westworld'" is a perfect example of a thimbleful of story being poured into an ocean of time." --Me, 2 December 2016

[@intravenousradio]

i personally loved season 2. i thought it was a great follow up to season 1. But season 3 and 4 seemed like the creators were intentionally dumbing it down in response to criticism that the show had become "too confusing."

[@justinpatton6996]

I stopped watching after Season two

[@sdHansy]

I liked it too. S3, however.... I can't even remember s4 :s

[@patriciazandilencube4597]

I also enjoyed S2 especially the episode in Lakota!

[@ressljs]

I'm surprised how many people say the show fell apart in Season 2. I thought the second was as good as the first. I actually did enjoy 3 & 4, although not nearly as much as the first two seasons. I actually think it would have been better to end it with season 2 and used the ideas in 3/4 for a completely different show.

[@justinpatton6996]

@@ressljs yes that sounds good 👍

[@grassygrass1798]

"It was hard to understand" it's a lazy argument for me. The show was supposed to make you think from the beginning. I get that there may be other reasons why Westworld lost its audience but I always hear that one.

[@booboobumbum6602]

I had friends who worked on it and they would literally make shit up as they went along...

[@subhasisbharali303]

Liked the season 1, even though the twists weren't that surprising

[@remuslazar2033]

Anthony Hopkins carried that whole first season. They made a stupid mistake killing him off

[@rabbychan]

@@remuslazar2033 Don't disrespect Ed Harris like that, he was outstanding in season 1.

[@thenerdytherapist2996]

I got annoyed during the 1st season. They had some characters find out they were robots (despite living as humans)......and you'd think that reveal would have ROCKED their world.....but NOPE. One character, in particular, barely emoted. So the "big reveal" about hidden robots in our world fell flat. Very much a missed opportunity.

[@Daniel-rp7nb]

To be fair, they were programmed that finding out would not cause them to freak out…. It’s not like a human finding out….

[@2782Jack]

I remember after season 1 thinking "every scene is going to be a human being murdered by a robot that can teleport at will or it's all a trick and they were a robot this whole time" I was wrong maybe twice in my predictions and only because I didn't expect the main computer to mislead it's owner as it already had total control over humanity so lying served zero purpose, everyone would have done whatever it said no matter what, there was nothing to gain by lying to someone who would have died or killed for you regardless of what you said your reason was

[@robertkent4929]

Season 1 was a masterpiece. I think, if self-contained and left alone, it would have been the greatest mini-series of all time. But the need to milk that cow ruined its legacy and took away too many people's love for the story

[@ScentlessSun]

I just hope Johnathan Nolan and Lisa Joy can stick the landing on this new Fallout tv series because season 1 was great I thought.

[@GaryBonaducci]

One thing I credit Jon Nolan & Lisa Joy with is that they chose to not end each season with a cliffhanger. Instead, they intensionally wrote each season to conclude the story lines with the final episode. This made it easier for me to accept that HBO decided not to renew the series for a fifth and final season.

[@goldfishy]

This is under appreciated. I despise tv shows that end on cliffhangers. It is lazy writing. To westworlds credit they at least gave us that.

[@eden20111]

I have to say season four was a major step up from two and three. It’s a shame they improved things too late though. But I am satisfied they didn’t end season four with a cliffhanger.

[@michaelwillmore8273]

I will never understand the hate for Seasons 2 and 3. Season 4 was a bit outlandish, but still served as a suitable continuation based on everything that happened previously.

[@removechan10298]

there's no excuse for season 2. Season 1 - fantastic, Season 4 - fantastic, Season 3 - good, Season 2 - who was responsible for this? If Season 2 hadn't decimated the show, who knows where it would have gone. It didn't need to last a long time, just conclude the story. Season 2 should have them sent to the hague for crimes against humanity

[@langreeves6419]

They didnt dumb down the latter seasons. The 1st season was SUPER EASY to follow, barely an inconvenience. But they made it continually more complicated....until it no longer made sense. Season 2 was still good, but the time we get to season 3, it is longer clear why the characters are doing what they're doing. The writers may think they were writing something clever and deep, but instead its just a hot mess of convolutions.

[@RobertoCarlos-tn1iq]

yup. joy started reading social media and believing the hype. so they made it even more complicated to try and appease people on reddit who were trying to guess hidden plot twists. now whenever i see a joy and nolan production, i change to another channel.

[@TomCruz54321]

Thank you, you verbalized my same feelings really well. The character motivations were a major part why I stopped watching the show. When I was watching I kept thinking "Wait remind me what your goal was again? I don't know how this accomplishes that goal. Why are you on this side again? I don't know anymore why everyone's doing what they're doing".

[@anubusx]

I loved season 1.

[@Shlogger]

yeah. it was actually pretty amazing. but I knew it was destined to derail. waaay too much going on..

[@flozenen6468]

First season is a masterpiece, season 2 is mediocre, 3 is abysmal, 4 had so much potential only to throw it all at the end.

[@phototristan]

I thought it was because Evan Rachel Wood is basically un hireable now due to the fact that she basically kidnapped her kid across state lines and refused to let him be seen by the father and false allegations against Marilyn Manson, etc.

[@canonogic]

Its sad we didnt get a final season. It looked like it was finding its feet again. That Akechita episode is STILL one of my faves. Also Ramin absolutely kills the soundtrack

[@cbrreezzyy69]

Sure, we’ll go with “convoluted narrative” as to why it went downhill

[@RobertoCarlos-tn1iq]

joy and nolan took half the money for themselves and left little for production.

[@temporalsoliton]

Nolan and Joy show a beautiful world full of complexity but like a new grad student thrust upon the world, they can’t stop showing how bright they are. Their worlds get bigger and more complex in theme without concluding many threads. As this video laid out, it gets confusing because it becomes hard to succinctly tell such complex stories and no one wants to juggle that many open ideas while following a show (particularly when 2 real years drag between seasons). They are the antithesis to the over simplistic direction of JJ Abrams to a degree that harms their own interests.

[@MrOgyny]

A mystery box is intriguing. Until you open it and nothing is inside.

[@mousqy]

overload of girl bosses