The Insane History of Beta Pokémon Gold & Silver

In 1997, the first Pokémon sequels were revealed to the world... but these games were far from the Gold and Silver we know today.
Check out my Japan Vlogs ➜ • A Delicious Start to o...
Check out Dr. Lava for more Unreleased Pokémon content: / djivision POW
Nintendo Space World Footage: • Pokémon Gold and Silve...
Prototype Gold & Silver Wiki: tcrf.net/Proto:Pokémon_Gold_a...
Pokemon Super Gold 97 ROM Hack: www.pokecommunity.com/showthr...
Pokemon GS97 REFORGED: www.pokecommunity.com/showthr...
Ending Song: • Battle! Celebi - Fanma...

[@UntNaruto1324]

I have a bit of a theory with Chicorita's beta middle evolution, that Pokemon wasn't meant to be tied to Chicorita at all, but perhaps an earlier grass starter that was getting phased out and they likely didn't have Bayleef finalized by the point of the Spaceworld Demo, which wouldn't matter if the starters can't evolve in the demo so realistically no one would've seen that weird middle stage but then the leak happened

[@MunchingOrange]

Good theory! I had a similar feeling but that makes me wonder what the other 2 stages of the more "plant-like" Grass starter could've looked like

[@UntNaruto1324]

@@MunchingOrange Likely would've gotten reworked into another grass type, given the more flower-like motif... could've been the inspiration of either the Roselia line or the Lilligant line, though that's just my speculations.

[@RokuroCarisu]

No, it actually was. You see, Chikorita wasn't designed as a baby dinosaur, but as a mole that is also a seed. Meganium was the one stage that didn't fit in, but they liked it enough to keep it, so they redesigned the middle stage to better visually tie it together with Chikorita.

[@danielmalinen6337]

It could be possible because gen1 and gen2 left behind a large number of scrapped Pokemon evolutions, families the designs. According to the Cuttingroom Floor, not all of them have been revealed yet and they are still waiting somewhere for the next leak.

[@UntNaruto1324]

@@RokuroCarisu Here's the thing though, which pokemon was designed first? Chicorita or Meganium? And were they gonna be part of the same line at first? Remember Blastoise wasn't meant to be Squirtle's final evo at first.

[@aio8432]

i remember watching your x & y playthrough as a kid like 10 years ago and this video just came up on my reccomended. thank you for being an amazing youtuber while i was younger

[@natbatlightwood5288]

I would love to see some of these Beta Pokèmon would be brought back. Like given the introduction of Regional Variants i think its the perfect excuse to bring some of them back. I really want that Voodoo Doll Pokémon to be canon it looks adorable. Oh oh they could even intergrate the Beta Suicune, Raikou, and Entei into the story of their creation, i know the theory is they were Eeveelutions that died when the Burned Tower burnt down, but its never been confirmed as canon so they could use the Beta designs to show how they became what they are. I even like the Beta Celebi, it could even be an Ultra Beast variant of Celebi to build off what you said about it being a bit Lovecraftian. I really hope we get some of these back because even the weirder looking ones are pretty solid designs, and it seems such a shame for them to never be used.

[@scurrie666]

yesssss

[@natbatlightwood5288]

@@scurrie666 glad someone agrees. I usually get called stupid for saying stuff like this. 😅😅😅

[@scurrie666]

I love this idea. A lot of the betas that were scrapped were really good

[@coreycann6751]

Silent Town and silent hills?! A crossover of my two favorite games from my childhood 😊

[@H0n35t]

I love how Gold from PokéSPE is just there in the thumbnail

[@pokelover1743]

it's interesting how we got some of the gold and silver sprites worked into some of the modern stuff we have today...like qwilfish got an evo in hisui like it does in thee demo also i wonder if paradox entei will get any elements from the original design worked into it

[@MunchingOrange]

Yeah I was not expecting to see Tangrowth that early

[@lipika2841]

Really loving these essay type videos so I hope u do them even more regularly. Vulpix's baby form tho is something intriguing living up to its dex entry of how it had 1 white tail that splits into more as it evolves.

[@leafgreen20cruz]

To be real Orange senses you show us the video "Moving on" the living room on San Juan I saw your Gameboy playing Gold/Silver Beta!! I knew you gotta play this!!

[@MunchingOrange]

I've been planning this since way back then 😉

[@dinar471]

Makes ya wonder just how many cut Pokemon there are, and how many were reworked into or inspired the official ones we have now

[@MunchingOrange]

For real, we need more beta leaks haha. The Gen 4 one was amazing to look through as well

[@nickdentoom1173]

There probably are a lot of cut Pokemon. I can clearly see inspiration in a lot of scrapped beta designs for current Pokemon... for example the beta Qwilfish evo got 100% turned into Whiscash, while the Electric cats became the Litten line and the Water starter clearly became Popplio line, with the middle evo and final evo also being inspiration for Samurott (Horn and the pose). I also think the Shark line got completly shredded into pieces, sparking three other lines (Fish is heart-shaped, so likely became Luvdisc/Alomomola, Shark became Sharpedo and the whale obviously became the Wailmer line).

[@bubbles5306]

I think Snubull was meant to be a counterpart Mythical to Mew being a dog. He was one of the last Pokemon in the beta pokedex and he's pure Psychic type which was viewed as a Legendary type back then, which they mentioned why Lugia was made Psychic and not Water. :v

[@MunchingOrange]

I think it was near the end because it was added later into development. Togepi, Sneasel and a few other are after the Legendaries too

[@Snubbull3000]

you're right actually. Before Ilex forest existed it was going to be Bulu forest (snubbull's japanese name), that was going to be its location before celebi.

[@natbatlightwood5288]

That is a pretty cool bit of trivia, i never knew that. I always said my eldest dog reminds me of Snubble as well so the idea it was once a Mythical like Mew is pretty cool.

[@MarissaChillya]

Wow I used to watch you as a kid! It's so amazing to see you branching out to this kind of content!!! Also I LOVE the G/S beta a lot. I have a soft spot for the rom hacks that make them into finished games!

[@JuanMunzerAsakura]

So, the pokedex entries for every new pokemon in this dex states: はっけんされた ばかりの ポケモン げんざい ちょうさちゅう。 Which is in the most simplistic japanese script and it comes out with this translation if you put it through google translate. "A newly hacked Pokémon." But say you convert that to the more adult script, and do a more accurate translation: 発見された ばかりの ポケモン 現在 調査中 This now translates to: "This newly discovered Pokémon is currently under investigation."

[@nickdentoom1173]

I think the Kuruzu line got eventually turned into the Popplio line - while Kuruzu's evolutions could also have been inspiration for Samurott (Horn of the middle one and the pose of the final evolution). I think the Ditto evolution eventually inspired Meltan. That Qwhilfish evolution is interesting. Like.. it might have been Overqwhil... but now looking at its design, it was clearly the inspiration for Whiswash. Just look at the arms/fins of the beta and Whiscash. And then i haven't even talked about the body structure and the tail and both Whiscash and the beta have a marking on their head as well. Beta Porygon might have inspired the creation of Litleo and Pyroar. The Shark eventually turned into Sharpedo and its evolution clearly was Wailmer/Wailord. I think they scrapped the line because they weren't happy with it and decided to take the line apart to make 2 separate lines for it (Like for gen 1, Blastoise wasn't supposed to be the final evolution of Squirtle). The fish that is star-shaped became Luvdisc or Alomomola. Kotora and Raitora clearly became the inspiration/got turned into the Litten line - look at the markings on top of the head, those are the same markings Incineroar has on its belly. Like with the Dark cat, i feel like it indeed got re-envisoned into Purrloin and Liepard. You might think the Cactus would have been turned into the Cacnea line, but looking at its design and body shape, i feel like it being used for Maractus instead seems to be more likely. They should have bring Turban back in Galar, as it being exclusive to that region and that is why we got Galarian Slowbro and Galarian Slowking becoming Poison type. Maybe Turban could have been Poison type itself. Wolfman line is alredy in the game... but its not Wolfman line anymore, its Snover and Abomasnow now.

[@thegreenbulbasaur]

Really enjoying the video essay style stuff you’ve made recently, love to see you morphing your content into whatever you feel like doing.

[@animeodin4755]

I always liked the idea of looking into some of these beta designs and seeing what changed or what was completely cut out. Some of these Pokémon look great and I would love to see them in future games in some fashion. Also, I can tell a lot went into making this video so great job on that as always. Definitely going to check out one of those roms for sure.

[@nickdentoom1173]

Some of these supposed scrapped Pokemon got either turned into another one or served as inspiration for current Pokemon. As such, i cannot see those Pokemon coming back. Kuruzu line clearly inspired/got turned into Popplio line, while the middle evolution and the final evolution also have something that could have inspired Samurott (The middle evolution got that horn and the final evolution got that pose). The Electric Cats Kotora and Reitora got either turned into the Litten line or was the inspiration for the line. Both are cats with stripes, but the markings on the head of the Kotora line, are also present on the belly of Incineroar. The Wolfman line obviously became Snover and Abomasnow. The Shark line became Luvdisc/Alomomomola (Heart-Shaped), the Shark became Sharpedo and the whale became the Wailord line (Its not uncommon for Pokemon to rip lines apart in the development stage, since Blastoise wasn't supposed to become Squirtles final evo in the beta stages). Qwhilfish evo obviously became Whiscash (Same body structure, same fin/arm size, same tail size and both have a marking on their head). Ditto evolution might have inspired Meltan Cactus Pokemon most likely got turned into Maractus (I feel like looking at it, Maractus seems more likely than the Cacnea line).

[@animeodin4755]

@@nickdentoom1173 Yeah, that's true but there are definitely some ideas left untouched or at least not used enough that they could still bring them back in some way for sure. But I like that we can now look at some official Pokémon and picture what they were originally going to be like. It's just an interesting concept to think about.

[@lyllymoreland2800]

Maybe that's what the three dogs looked like before they died in the fire?

[@KasaiRayquaza]

It's interesting that they had a Mime Jr beta, when it didn't even come out until Gen 4. I guess that's why Gen 4 had a resurgence in babies; they're all based on the Betamon? I also am curious if the shark one eventually became Sharpedo.

[@DS_IndustrieZ]

19:59 the FMA aclhemist emo dog resemblance tho. Spot On 😅😂😮

[@Roman-rr3uy]

Great vid Mo! I started a Pokémon glazed playthrough and use Fabby as tribute to you

[@Kristern99]

Really liked this video and the style, thx as always for the good content

[@MunchingOrange]

Glad you enjoyed it! Been trying to switch up my style of content and this was a fun one to research/edit

[@TarikA]

Great video. Also noticeable that the new Gen 1 romhack KEP (Kanto Expansion Pak) also includes many of those Spaceworld demo monsters. I'm currently playing my way through "Super Gold 97" on my Analogue Pocket and having a blast. It's so nice to basically have a fully playable Pokémon 1.5 somehow. Later I'll be playing Reforged as well. =)

[@bajanyaoikaizer6902]

Pokemon Harvest Gold and Silvery Grey Honoguma 3 stge line: Fire/ Ghost; Kuruusu 3 stage line: Water/Psychic; Kotora 3 stage line: Electric/Dark bombushikaa 3 stage line: Fire/Water; Anchor shark 3 stage line: Water/Steel; Rinrin 3 stage line: Dark/Steel or Fairy or Sound; Wolfman 3 stage line: Ice/Ghost; Talisman Panda 2 stage line: Ghost; Snubbull -> Granbull -> Granbull evo: Fairy/Steel V - Sunkern: Grass -> V - Sunflora: Grass/Fire -> V - Sunflora evo: Grass/Fire Phanpy - > Donphan -> Donphan evo a: Ground/Fight & Donphan evo b: Ground/Electric V - Hoothoot: Flying -> V - Noctowl: Flying/Electric - > V _ Noctowl evo: Flying/Electric Skateboard should also let you have different encounters than walking or riding. 10 gyms, 5 elite trainers, 2 version exclusive champions, 4 new fossils, 6 starters, 4 rivals

[@frankbingham53]

Love this video much more like this please dude.

[@Madman-8287]

if your at all interested if i remember correctly the source code for generation 2 was leaked at some point after that too and with it the in development sprite sheets for these and even more unused pokemon. for example the fish at the start of the ikari anchor shark line was originally meant to be it's own whole separate pokemon and the sprites for the original evolutions are in there.

[@Leo-pd4fc]

Haven't never played Pokémon Gold and Silver BUT my first Pokémon games in my childhood are Pokémon Heartgold and Soulsilver so this is really NOSTALGIC for me and makes me feel old but I think i'm not that old borned after 2000's in year 2002 and i'm just 21 years old "adult". Pokémon games have been always with ME since Nintendo DS times. I've been and gonna always be with POKÉMON! Dy dy dy dy dy dy Pokémon Johto dy dy dy dy dy Everyone wan't to be a Master, everyone wan't to show their skills, everyone wan't to be a faster... Those old versions of Pokémon in Gold are INTERESTING for me because NEVER played 1998 Pokémon games. Pokemon games and anime are always near of my HEART defienitily anime where is Ash and old Pokémon games since Heartgold Soulsilver to Black and White. 😊❤

[@TenkoBerry]

This Was Great Keep It Up 👍

[@animeist72]

Crazy how ALL of this was happening before the series even came to America

[@OreskisVR]

Orange Your Pokémon Videos Always Make My Day🔥👍

[@HighPriestFuneral]

A rather good exploration of this topic! I'd love to see you also approach Gen 1's beta, that too is... wild, to say the least. I am surprised with many of the choices they ended up making. Why did we need Ledyba and Ledian when we could have had access to a Dark Type early on with Rinrin? If they were looking for highly marketable, the Raitora line would have been perfect, I am quite surprised they didn't go with that. Perhaps they struggled how to differentiate it enough from other electric types though.

[@mamaharumi]

I think that Chicorita evolution looks sick as its own pokemon. Really, the concept designs for Gen 2 in general were cool. I liked a lot of them.

[@Ultriac301]

Chickorita's second stage looks like a Sentret coming out of a flower! Bayleef 4 the win!!!😅

[@KeViNMCMXXCIX]

So fun to see the early game of Gold & Silver and a bit of Crystal as well.

[@supersayandarmanitan]

So that's why Gold has a skateboard in the mwnga

[@e9310103838]

Marill had already confirmed its appearance at the time. Why is it still twin-tailed and golden in 99 beta version? And I think Honooguma ended up being Pawmi in a way.

[@gabetreharne8807]

What if the original pokemon that died in the brass tower were the beta of suicune raikou and entei and ho-oh turned them to the legendary beats we know. Kinda like this idea more than them being eeveelutions

[@braddub8145]

If Octillery looked like beta Octillery, I would've mained tf out of that boi

[@evanmak7837]

There is a very possible theory that Snubull was a legendary. The clues to that are: -Pure physhic type was reserved for mysterious and legendary pokemon in Gen 1 -There is an area called blue forest in the demo. Buru forest in the japanese version. and Snubull's japanese name is Buru. It is theorised that it was the area it was meant to encountered, surrounded by very strong pokemon like the cerulean cave.

[@KasaiRayquaza]

So back in '97 Girafarig had an prevolution that was Dark/Normal. 2023, neither Girafarig nor Farigiraf are Dark type. I love this evolution line, but what in the actual hell?! Dark type would've made both so much cooler.

[@Kou69]

"Can we walk through our mom?" - MunchingOrange 2023

[@scurrie666]

I have played these games since they first came out. to me they are some of the best games ever for a million reasons. and some of the best pokemon games ever because of the ability to go to 2 regions. i currently dont have a copy of any of these games but i really want to get a hard gameboy copy of either gold or silver and crystal or all of the above. I hate the versions available on an emulator or like how there are versions on the 3ds and now the switch. nothing beats the original gameboy version! i have watched many similar videos on these games during development but a lot of what i seen here is new too me. excellent work, you have definitely earned a loyal subscriber! it never ceases to amaze me that new things have been discovered (leaked) on these games that are like 20- 30 years old! love love it. gotta catch em all!

[@Digital_Her0]

Holy shit the early beta Celabi is a kokopeli! That's awesome

[@druski888]

that is pretty cool i would love a desert region based on the american southwest

[@DS_IndustrieZ]

22:36 that celebys stare doesnt catch you until that mew shows up, because ill do anything to not see this beta version mew again 😅😮😅😢

[@PkmnTrainerEmerald]

I always wished we could somehow get these from pokemon like maybe put them on NSO. Not only that have like maybe one of them be hints to actually having some of these coming back in a new game. Gen 2 is so awesome! Wish I had the chance to play it in person!

[@E_X_I_T]

🔥🔥🔥 love it!

[@javiermorones7196]

Great video man! Can we get a list of best of 2023 pokemon rom hacks please?

[@meta527II]

14:39 Where did you get the episode in that good quality?

[@MunchingOrange]

It's on the official Pokemon KZbin! "Togepi hatches"

[@NewportBox100s]

Such great lore! 😁

[@Jordan13299]

Wolfman is such a great design! Simple but conveys a wild yet cold ice type. I suppose Snorunt is somewhat of a spiritual successor but as a fulltime Glaile hater not a big fan of how it ended up

[@chobiechumpis]

Please do a let's play of a fan made beta!

[@justingumieny]

Carvana, Sharpedo and Mega Sharpedo inspirations? Nice

[@kylebrandon4556]

This is very intriguing since most of us were curious on how the betas would of worked

[@KimFareseed]

18:52 Okay that is an adorable kitten.

[@HalianTheProtogen]

Silent Hill is the literal translation of Shizuoka, a major city about halfway between Tōkyō and Ōsaka (er, Saffron and Goldenrod).

[@EddieGaster]

I still want Pokemon like Madame, Beta Girafarig, Anchorage (the shark with the anchor), and the cats with the bells to return.

[@tauseeful]

Which of the 2 rom hacks would u recommend to play? playing both would take too much time

[@UntNaruto1324]

Depends on what flavor of the spaceworld GS you want to play through, do you want it to feel like a gen 1.5 game? Play Super Gold '97. Or do you want it more like a full gen 2 game? Then play Gold '97 Reforged

[@yoshineitor]

Some designs really look off and others look too complicated for a toy. On a gen 3 interview, a developer said that they had to keep in mind toys when designing Pokemon (which they luckily disregarded until gen 3 with the cover trio), it could aso explain the discarded grass 2nd stage and others. After all, most of Pokemon's income comes from merch.

[@MunchingOrange]

Makes a lot of sense why designs from recent Gens are so different

[@rcortezdraws]

I love seeing my art at 17:13 such a surpise!

[@MunchingOrange]

Oh nice! That artwork is amazing. Sorry for missing the credit 😅

[@rcortezdraws]

@@MunchingOrange No problem man!

[@jamaalpete9238]

Imagine being one of those people who attended Space World and retained the memory of playing Pocket Monsters 2 rather than Gold & Silver that we all got, on TOP of the memory of the Gold & Silver that we got 🤯; gotta check those, thank you and them 🙏🏼

[@harrychristofi6725]

Psycho dad reference LOL

[@ericeastland6321]

porygon2 reminds me of the little lion character from Bleach whose name i don’t remember right now

[@DittoBlob]

Yo, remember that stork beta Pokémon that was in the database. Lol we now have Bombirdier lol! No doubt that was a reused beta!

[@TeHj0keR]

I'm pretty sure the Bayleef sprite is a placeholder of beta Celebi.

[@HalIucinations]

Beta Mime Jr is precious

[@mjdxp5688]

The EXP bar matching the HP color actually is in the final game. It's just a quirk of playing in Super Game Boy mode. It's only different when playing the final games on the Game Boy Color.

[@KotaJMomo]

11:22 EVERYBODY SKA... '_'

[@pinkprincess6136]

I never played the beta version of gold and silver and I know nothing about it. But the beta game looks cool and the beta Pokemon look cool too. I wish that the thunder cat was real and the fire bear too they are so cute

[@katereza5881]

Ah I wish they kept the skateboard to make Ethan more different from the rest of the gang

[@user-zm2pz6rj1l]

pokemon game links in the description/comments take me back to the times i was downloading translated copies of pokemon diamond/pearl

[@bonniesbitchin]

❤

[@tlst94]

What if Gen 1 came out worldwide in 1996(same as Japan)? And had features like 256 Pokemon(with cross-Gens & cut mons), a female protagonist, a female rival(Daisy, while de-aged to 11), genders, and breeding? Plus, a recently-invented Pokemon League lore-wise(but as a tournament like Gen 8). Agatha as a friendly professor and Oak's wife. 23:21 And the player canonically became the first Champion of both Kanto and the whole world? Plus, obtainable Mythicals as Dex completion rewards? Also, what if Gen 2 came out worldwide in 1997 on GameBoy? And took place only in Johto(a bigger Kansai). With 256 new Pokemon, a female protagonist, a female rival, time travel, and Johto having its own stuff(League, Fossils, Evil Team, etc.). And if the player became the first Johto Champion(and the world's second after Red/Leaf)? Elm's wife also being a Professor. And also obtainable Mythicals as Dex completion rewards.

[@chilly2093]

Does anyone know if there are any translated Pokédex entries for the Gen 2 beta Mon? Would love to read them

[@Gao8lack]

0:10 omg Gus Rodriguez

[@braydengames1238]

6:45 that sprite is just.. staight up smoking.

[@michealhunt6607]

That's in the Japanese version of the final games. A few sprites got edited when they were localising, i think another trainer sprite was edited/censored for religious reasons (nintendo outside of Japan had a big no religion policy in their games at the time)

[@jacobjamaal8369]

I've heard the one you called a ditto evolution called beta Pupitar based on dex #s

[@PkMkPresto487]

Please tell me if I can play this on an emulator!

[@jamesbrincefield9879]

The legendary dogs from the beta look so laughably bad I’m surprised they didn’t steal their designs for Gen 9.

[@DS_IndustrieZ]

More like a modded version of red, yellow, blue lmao

[@Nanoboosty]

I wish the skateboard made the final cut now

[@fr2138]

Munch ur the goat 🐐

[@meta527II]

22:14 For some reason I think it looks more like Beta Smoliv.

[@Snubbull3000]

i see johto content and i slam the like button :)

[@MunchingOrange]

As a true Snubbull fan should! TY 🧡

[@supersaiyaneevee1573]

I absolutely love beta pokemon. I want honogumo (however its spelled) to be a real pokemon so bad! Easily wouldve been my starter pick.

[@trollbrochina]

yall had never seen a R/S beta right? I had played it once when I was in Japan back in early 2000s and it was quite good. I even have an early version of Game Boy Advanced (like the shape of a game boy color but with all game boy advanced features) til this day.

[@spiritforge]

You would do terrific voice acting in the roles of Fred Jones or Barney

[@MunchingOrange]

Lol people have always said Kermit so I'll take this as a compliment 😄

[@pikaboy386]

Also there is a beta stantler. They had made a evolution for delibird which looks like Santa And umbreon was designed as poison type at that time.

[@MunchingOrange]

Oh cool, I didn't notice that about Umbreon!

[@pikaboy386]

@@MunchingOrange many of the scraped beta pokemons are shown in 'pokemon adventure: red chapter' game. There is also a beta scizor which looks very different than nowadays.

[@pikaboy386]

@@MunchingOrange even Espeon also had a beta design at that time

[@dusakim]

im curious if gamefreak still has the 80% finished version of this version if yes i actually would love to see how the 2 gen would look like

[@Sussyforniteballs69]

Celebrate looks like robinquill Tera lol

[@FujiDyl]

Maybe the Chikorita lines second evo is actually beta bedew?

[@blackzero786]

17:27 its a tentaquil

[@Matthman]

Can you please play the roms based on the demo

[@IrisThatOneGothMf]

agreed, i wanna see that too

[@KotaJMomo]

0:00 I literally know what anime bgm that's from...t

[@suno8911]

1 hour club

[@that_carbon_hawkeye]

all of these pokemon are also in a rom hack "pokemon adventure red chapter" its a fire red rom hack thats more so a fan game than a hack. BUUUUUUUT, the rare candy and master ball gameshark codes for fire red do work in it

[@PizzaShrimp]

id like to point out you can still play gold and silver on the dmg gameboy, you dont need a color.

[@HalianTheProtogen]

16:35 FUGGGG :DDDDDD

[@airyshark324]

This is funny lol Bec I just started a nuzlocke on soulsilver a week ago an it’s going 🤣

[@marcarthur100]

I wish marowaks evole form wus in the games from red & blue bata

[@bradlovell3884]

No second episode for the Pokemon zombie game?

[@leftyfourguns]

Just more proof Chikorita is the best starter

[@SqualidsargeStudios]

Kids gambling no bueno. Whilst these days companies have no issues with getting kids addicted to gambling whatsoever