The Invention of Nationalism

John Hamer of Toronto Centre Place explores how modern nationalism contrasts with ancient kin group and homeland traditional identities. He traces the origins of nationalism in the modern era and considers how this ideology - artificially constructed group identity based on language, religion, ethnicity, and race - led to the devastating wars and genocides of the 20th centuries.

[@andrewisjesus]

I love you thank you. Basically a free online class for me. Im almost ready for my doctorate

[@clydecessna737]

I was once being bombarded by the brother of the Egyptian Ambassador to Israel, and air force general. He was expounding about British Imperialism and Israeli aggression. He said Egypt is free of all that now. I then asked him what language he spoke to his wife and children in, then I asked him what religion he practiced.

[@leegenny8712]

then come the copts,and your whole argument is no more.

[@mikelnomikos]

This channel wins at everything.

[@zilphiamartin6123]

Found it! I wasn't able to find the lecture on Facebook.

[@sunshine124422]

Very good lectures... thank god for experts

[@feelsgoodman8698]

Big like, 💯% historical accurated🔥🔥🙉

[@tudorpearce]

Another fantastic presentation. 👏🏻

[@MeatballOne]

Amazing lecturer. Erudite & lucid.

[@Dahlen4Dummies]

Colonization did not end after WW2. Neocolonialism is real and has never stopped.

[@ophirbelkin5958]

Really great Lecture love how you deconstructed how nationa are forged.

[@jessereichbach588]

Former immigrant groups becoming "anti-immigrant" is perfectly rational, especially once integrated in that society and stable as a community. Most people accept that immigration is a zero-sum game. Once they have made it and established a place for themselves, everyone else becomes the competition. And if you are already part of an immigrant community that had to "fight" for its place, then the last thing you want is more competition from other immigrant groups. This is instinctive and quite a reoccurring and natural phenomenon, for completely rational reasons. It's no different in large scale. Like 95% of the world's nations today were established through some form of conquest, colonialism and Imperialism. Yet the vast, vast majority of those countries, on an international level, LOVE telling younger, less established and smaller nations what is "allowed" and what is "not allowed". Which is quite convenient. After acquiring massive territories, assets and resources for "your country" and "your people", it's very convenient to then tell other people "conquest is bad and we are outlawing it". Which is basically how modern "international law" developed, as impotent as it is in reality. None the less, at the end of WW1 and then even more so during and after WW2, the Imperial "winners" got to dictate terms to the rest of the world. And it is in that process that these former Imperialists, colonialists, invaders and occupiers, hypocritically dictated to newer and "lesser" nations, that the same processes they themselves used to gain everything they have, were now outlawed for "everyone else". And this facade of hegemony is crumbling before our eyes. The inability to enforce international law, combined with the dubious nature of international law, makes it feckless in the face of reality. And it will continue to be so as long as hypocrites attempt to dictate the destiny of other people.

[@juliogadelhaparente]

just love the lectures....absolute brilliancy

[@markstuber4731]

Great lecture. I've always wondered how could make the distinction between a nation and a tribe,

[@charlesandrews2360]

Halfway through I've learned one important thing about perceived genealogy in America. If you think you are descended from some ancient warrior king from the region that your ancestors left, to come to America, it's more than likely that your ancestors came from the lowest rungs of society who were left there to work for the people who conquered them.

[@harukrentz435]

Isnt it obvious? If youre wealthy why would you leave your convenient lifestyle to live in nowhere and hostile land like america?

[@david-bl8lx]

Or you from the 7th son of the 7th son and... of some king. This coming from my own reported lineage.

[@charlesandrews2360]

@@david-bl8lx Traveling far from his father's Kingdom and family estates, conquering new worlds to become an accountant at a national insurance company's regional headquarters in Terre Haute, Indiana.

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

You are an amazing lecturer.

[@maxsonthonax1020]

List of interjections (very mild showing): 6:31-7:19 - Shaheen (sp?) 16:10-16:55 - in favour of autocrats? 27:37-28:28 - Shaheen again 30:47 & 31:36 - some comments edited out?! 😃 57:13 & 1:15:17 - more edits 1:15:57-1:16:05 - more Shaheen (the Welsh bilingual signage is not actually the proof of this, but it is true enough that Welsh lingual revivalism was successful).

[@aerx]

Maybe it's just me but all of the random comments during the presentations are rather disruptive and annoying. Actual questions that allow clarification or more depth are nice, but just rambling opinions or random anectodotes we could do without.

[@astrobullivant5908]

It's a different kind of lecture than a traditional lecture.

[@glenn-younger]

I hear what you're saying. I've love this guy as a lecturer and have come to accept that the interruptions and interactions are simply a part of their format. If you look at their mission of inclusivity, then the interruptions and comments are in context. But....saying that... I hear you! I'd love it if their format held questions and comments to the end. But, it doesn't. Still, I'm grateful they're sharing their COMMUNITY with the rest of us by sharing their congregational talks on KZbin. Sooooo informative!

[@bakters]

This lady again? I wish someone told her to read the comments.

[@michaelgriffiths7679]

Finally subbed after over 100 hours. Let the algorithm hit me

[@matthewtroxel370]

Been looking for this as well!

[@stadiamak692]

Why did you cut the india bjP pArt out? The hindutva bjp unltra nationalism should have been discussed

[@DenUitvreter]

Remarkably talking about the emergence of nationalism in Europe he entirely missed the first European nation state "The Republic of the Seven United Netherlands" aka the Dutch Republic. With the first national flag, the first national anthem and the first with an identity that was not related to a monarch nor was it ethnic. The reason this is overlooked might be that it was multi-ethnic, multireligious and multiracial. People saying we want to do things or own way here, no Spanish Inquisition, these are our borders and within it's our laws and our government that serves us. For the 'no border' crowd, without a territory and therefore borders, there can't be rule of law, no social contract, no government serving it's people. This was nationalism to free the people from imperialism, in this case the Spanish empire's. That's the relevant distinction. It's nationalism vs imperialism at one side, and nationalism vs tribalism at the other side. Imperialism is what cause Europe so many problems. Napoleon was not a nationalist like many enlightenment philosophers, but an imperialist. Hitler was an imperialist. Imperialist forces combined with tribalist forces to rip Yugoslavia with it's nationalism apart. Nationalism itself is not the problem. It takes nations states to organize education for all, to make labour laws, to entitle people to vacation, to protect the environment, to tax the 1%, etc, basically all progress of the past 400 years came through nation states. If you want to conquer land outside your borders and rule (and oppress) other people, you're an immperialist, not a natiolist. If you want to keep your country with it's people and want it to do well, better than other countries even, you're a nationalist. We see the same fight between imperialism and nationalism today. The latest tool of the imperialists is called globalism and all the international organizations and NGO's and propaganda it comes with. And of course in conflict what happens is that the imperialists try to give nationalism a bad name by projecting the horrors of imperialism onto it. And racism, through all kinds of word play to conflate nationalism with white, that only works for a specific American meaning of 'nation' that never existed in Europe, but it spreads. When nationalism is smeared enough to become dirty, it can't be discussed by decent people, and then it's like there's no reasonable alternative to globalism anymore, and globalism is very profitable for those who have paid to get the leadership of the current world empire elected. So that's victory for imperialism. Sadly, good people with much more noble motives, academics often, unwillingly do the dirty propagandawork for the imperialists. Because they take the social contract for granted and didn't think about how their progressive ideas can undermine it, because nationalism and racism have occasionally overlapped in the past, because the imperialists are rich and powerful and influence academia and language without them noticing, they truly believe nationalism is the evil and not the imperialism they are actually helping.

[@jolesutherland3379]

I like how you put this. interesting ,

[@charlesandrews2360]

I love these lectures. They are brilliant. I understand why you didn't talk about the violence during the breakup of Yugoslavia, it really was unthinkable, unimaginable for the average American. Even as we watched and read about it in the news. I think the reason that a lecture about nationalism is important right now is because of the extreme right-wing nationalist turn that our country is taking, among a more than significant percentage of our population. I really believed you would be doing a service to your students if you went into a little more detail about the horrific violence that took place. Yugoslavia held the Olympics and within 10 years there was just unspeakable violence between neighbors and families who had been living together for Generations. Thank you for the education

[@david-bl8lx]

This is a church btw. Agreed to your statement

[@toonmoene8757]

I traveled through Yugoslavia in 1988. I passed through villages with a church on one side of the road and a mosque on the other side ...

[@daveyork0]

Teachoholic

[@danielvitowilliams6430]

I was told stories of my Welsh great grandparents getting an ass whooping with a cane or any wooden implement if they were caught speaking Welsh in our own country, maybe lucky my Sicilian grandparents moved to wales and not England after ww2, heard bad stuff about that too but i don’t personally know. And I agree brexit is a schizophrenic, confused and emotional reaction which is nationalism hurting a populace at its best along with corrupt politicians trying to bring back feudalism… Appreciate you doing these lectures Dr Hamer, and centre place!

[@maxsonthonax1020]

Think I'll skip the post-presentation Q & A session. Getting a sense it'll be a desolation for subtleties of the complex benefits & drawbacks of nationalism (both past & present).

[@Stadtpark90]

Tour de Force. He went through the history of “The West” (and how it came to be), including Colonization and Decolonization in less than 90 minutes! The only thing that was missing was Panslavism (well, I guess it’s there in the Serbia part), Panarabism, and the whole of Asia and South America. Well, the Portuguese might have liked a word, and The Netherlands and the Nordic countries might have liked their stories told as well... - there’s hardly a European Nation that didn’t have its Golden Age or its Finest Hour... - and then there is special cases like Australia. Telling how every country in the world got where it is today and found their identification through the tides of time was only slightly beyond the scope of this talk. I bet if he made a part two (or three), he could have spanned the whole wide world... - I’m always astounded how little he is hurting the individual narratives, and lets everybody have his fame. Edit: and I haven’t even watched the 40 min of Q&A yet...

[@david-bl8lx]

It would take a long series of lectures to cover the topic well enough. He even says this is only a small piece of topic.

[@david-bl8lx]

He probably could look at just a small group of today's countries and talk for hours on how nationalism created them.

[@Pegasus51]

A question about nations is : is the bacterias who digest the milk of butter and cheese before you, are kings and armies! (in fact they're making better food at any rate). look the line who separe mainly agricuturist country and other to understand where you have strong central power or not in europe (not etnik question only that's there had a coincidence between germanic poeple and the north of europe where the jacobinisme and the irresponsible individuality and mainly agriculcurist lands not occur excepted in baviere : you can also find almost the frontiere between catholicisme and protestantisme there) . At the end of all that you have a lof of concern about the fact that a lot of country of the north UE ask themselves why they have to pay so many money for the southern agriculture.

[@harukrentz435]

57:09 i was wondering eversince the table appeared lol

[@Austria88586]

Historically, Russia has never been considered fully Western.

[@bothewolf3466]

Been to Kosovo. Smaller than the county I live in.

[@shantoreywilkins651]

🆗️🔊

[@americanliberal09]

Fun fact: Nationalism in some cases can also lead to imperialism. 😁

[@jillsmiley7701]

Let him talk! You mess up his groove

[@markstuber4731]

Around the One hour 20 minute mark, that line of thought didn't age well.

[@ophirbelkin5958]

Do people around here think this kind of lecture about national can go well with the audience in your country? I think In canada this will be understandable, But In Most countries this will create a lot of disagreement.

[@ophirbelkin5958]

I live In Israel and people here have a really hard time understanding how nodern nationalism is, maybe if It was common knowledge we would have a lot less problems around here

[@ntchurchoffreethought6163]

Isn't nationalism just a prettified term for tribalism?

[@ozzy5146]

Gotta start the discussion of "nationalism" with the idea that "nation" derives from the word "birth". That is, nations derive from KINSHIP.

[@ozzy5146]

@ger du Without kinship, generally, children don't learn SCHITT. Deal with that.

[@DenUitvreter]

Yes, it comes down to 'I was born here so I can live here with all the other people that were born here' contrary to patriottism that derives from father and claims rights based on bloodline rather than place of birth. Americans: Natonalism bad, patriotism good.

[@david-bl8lx]

@@DenUitvreter was the last part sarcasm? By your statement this would be me. My nationality: USA American Patriotism: British, Scandinavian

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

All the questions are off base. "Nationalism" is not a doctrine individuals can "believe in or not." Nationalism is when Vietnamese shoot French soldiers, then shoot American soldiers and then shoot Chinese soldiers. Then Vietnamese get to rule Vietnam. The migrations (Germans, Greeks, Turks, Pakistanis) are another far more rare matter. But dishwashers in Canada don't get to "decide to be nationalists." Nope. And Trump in 2020 increase the GOP share of Black and Latino voters. Don't misunderstand broader GOP/DNC politics based on Trump's more offensive TV rhetoric.

[@KnutBluetooth]

Switzerland is not a nation nor a nation-state, it is a confederation. In Switzerland you are a national of the canton of which you come from within switzerland.

[@astrobullivant5908]

For every practical purpose, a "confederation" is a nation.

[@ozzy5146]

of course switzerland is a nation, is a country. How silly.

[@joshuaglassman8949]

Wow. As he gets into more recent history, his ability to be fair simply disappears.

[@GrievousAngelo]

Was he unfair to dear leader? 😂

[@joshuaglassman8949]

@@GrievousAngelo who?

[@bweresquirrel8279]

A bit disappointed that there was no mention of California's Prop 187, which is arguably the most recent and relevant instance of nativist politics prior to the 2010s.

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

Our USA is not a "nation state." Did you watch the presentation? Nobody cares about California at all. Not even a little. LOL!

[@guib6055]

‘I’ll try to keep it quick because I’m sure there’s a lot of other questions’ - rambles on for four minutes

[@westrm2010]

Sounds vaguely familiar like say organized religion. Combine the two (nationalism & religion) and you end up with Donald Trump voters.

[@shanecormier6731]

You end up with a patriotic American as the country once was.

[@righteousrico]

Nationalism + religion = Theocracy

[@shanecormier6731]

More like: Christianity + Nationalism = Stability

[@shanecormier6731]

You were fortunate to be born in the west and you're either to spoiled, arrogant or ignorant to realize it. Sign of the times.

[@righteousrico]

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.

[@kdubs9111]

Huxley was right...

[@ryanr5139]

AMERICA FIRST AMERICA FOREVER

[@jonathanstempleton7864]

A rather simplistic evaluation of a more complicated subject.

[@zzyzxRDFwy15]

You da' man, Trump!

[@TheFost]

Such an ignorant take on Brexit.

[@innerguidance8899]

Barbarian=Barbari= bearded one's

[@harukrentz435]

Problem is most Greeks male had beard.

[@hansfrantz6658]

so so.. the austrians speak a kind of german... pff

[@LethalBubbles]

for the longest time I thought Albert Einstein was from Germany because he spoke Germany, but he's actually from Switzerland which has large territories that speak German, and others that speak English, and others that speak Swiss.

[@ozzy5146]

einstein was NOT swiss. Born in ULM, Germany. Swiss German language is different than German.

[@ozzy5146]

@@Dude0000 No schit, sherlock. They also speak Romansch. I'm Swiss. And Swiss German is different than German.

[@LethalBubbles]

@@ozzy5146 my bad on his birthplace. I didn't really say either way but I didn't know where he was born. I did know that Swiss German is a different dialect, however. This is why I bring it up in the context of the lecture. He's born one place, living in another, speaking a language that's mixture of the two. His nationality is more complex than nationalism can explain, I think. I bet he's seen nationalists on both the German and Swiss sides all throughout his life, so he makes that measles quote. It is a strong statement when seen through the optics of his life.

[@ozzy5146]

@@LethalBubbles Swiss German is NOT a dialect of German. It is different enough to be categorized as a separate LANGUAGE. Google is your friend (sometimes)

[@AkakaDomenjer]

Lmfao

[@hawat949]

Is this about nationalism? No. But promotes left ideas.

[@fuiscklam4087]

This SJW crap at the end just sours the lecture.

[@stadiamak692]

You sound very sour yourself

[@fuiscklam4087]

@@stadiamak692 About the gender crap - yes.

[@aspergersadvisor5508]

I've been told told more than once that I would not be hired because I am a white male. How is affirmative action not structural racism against white males? Your excuses are not valid to someone who experiences it.. And oh, if you dismiss me as an uneducated bigot, you need to know that I have a Ph.D. in Linguistics from SUNY at Buffalo ad that my best friend is Puerto Rican, black, and Tagalog, another best friend is Bengali and with. My ex-wife is Chinese and we had 4 children together. While I love your lectures on religion and find them very informative, this time you missed the mark.

[@harukrentz435]

I'm not a r* c1st because i have black friends.

[@youcanthandlethetruth6976]

This guy is off his rocker. Israel is the only Nationalism in existence currently. Nazi Germany and Israel are the only two states in modernity that tried to commit to Nationalism in his definition and it was only Israel that was successful in their apartheid. Runner ups of course would be the Muslim States and various African states and Socialist/Communist states. The Western World by and large have abandoned all "Nationalism" in the ethno sense. The Western World has adopted the American spirit by and large, which is a nation that is bound not by ethnos, but by Principles.

[@david-bl8lx]

Guess you didn't learn about the American mixing pot. Where natives and immigrants were forced to the American way. Stripping them of their languages, and cultures. It's only been a recent idea of connecting to one's ancestors. Partaking in their traditions and languages. That's why Americans are looked at as strange to the rest of world when we say we are "such and such ethnicity". When we or our closest ancestors haven't lived in that area. Like I have British ancestors. But my family have been Americans since they left Britain 300 years ago. It's nice to know about my ancestors but that doesn't change the fact my family have not been anything but Americans for more than 3 generations.

[@youcanthandlethetruth6976]

@@david-bl8lx They weren't forced into the "American Way". They were taught English, that's not forcing people into the American Way. Modernity will change all cultures by nature regardless. Today's Americans have no semblance of the old American life, because modernity changed that. Such was the same date of every nation. But no one made laws or forced anyone to do anything. Israel and some other National ethnic states are the only ones with laws on the books that could be considered ethnic nationalism.

[@sdunlap1583]

I love history but twisting American patriotism into Trump White Nationalism is ridiculous. You couldn’t even tie up your opinion linearly with all of the history you gave us early in the talk. What you wanted to talk about in the first place was Trump. Lol. Have to just laugh

[@zzyzxRDFwy15]

like John videos and the knowledge of the document hypothesis he wants to share but he seems to have created his own secular religion to fit his life style for himself and others that agree with his views. When he calls people who voted for Trump white nationals you know he is capable of hate in his heart cast with a wide net at millions of people. That's disappointing to discover in this video.

[@charlesandrews2360]

I guess if we could help people realize that the planet is one big nation of humanity we could create a beneficent "nationalism." The kind of nationalism that is more geared toward survival of the fittest so that we can care for the other species around us and stop fouling our own nest. Eventually we will evolve lol