Why Josephus Matters

[@_pawter]

Once again an excellent lecture that builds a coherent picture from all the disparate bits and pieces I had already. I'm glad you have such a large back-catalogue of lectures for me to plunder when I can spare 2 hour blocks of time. The pastor of my church used to be a high school history teacher and can read ancient Greek, so I hope to share with him the best bits: he has 3 small children, a burgeoning congregation, and little spare time.

[@pwal6773]

Watch at 1.5 playback speed and you'll only need to spare about 80-90 minutes.

[@cae02]

Thanks. Appreciate all the hard work putting these together, presenting and publishing. Keep ‘em coming!!! (p.s. Miss the live audience)

[@garyschneider6644]

This series is a wonderful find. I will be listening to other of John’s lectures.

[@mohinfahim7280]

A group of Jews are directly mentioned in the Samaritans' Book of Asatir, And after the death of Abraham, Ishmael reigned twenty seven years. And all the children of Nebaot [Ishmael's son] ruled for one year in the lifetime of Ishmael, And for thirty years after his death from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates; and they built Mecca.” [The Asatir - The Samaritan Book of The “Secret of Moses; Gaster, Moses (1927). VIII, page 262] That is, the descendants of Ishmael (a.s.) began to rule during his lifetime. They built the city of Makkah. In that book, the famous Jewish historian Josephus (37 AD-100 AD) is quoted as saying: Josephus I. 12. 3. 221: "These inhabited all the countries from the Euphrates to the Red Sea, and called it Nabatene." Gen. 25. 18. Pal.Targ.: "And they dwelled from Hindikia (Indian Ocean) to Palusa (Pelusiumt which is before Egypt as thou goest to Atur (Assyria). In Kebra Ch. 83: many countries are enumerated over which Ishmael ruled "Built Mecca." That is, according to Josephus, the Ishmaelites built Mecca.

[@PGB55]

This channel and John keep doing such a great job of summarizing so much scholarship in an honest way. I've yet to hear any contradictions with the more academic / detailed presentations, discussions, debates, etc. elsewhere. Always puts a nice bow on a lot of disparate topics.

[@vsedai]

Obviously you never watch Bart Ehrman, LOL

[@PGB55]

@@vsedai obviously you don't have the foggiest idea of using logic.

[@vsedai]

@@PGB55 Expand your horizons beyond Christian apologetics. Try listening to what historians say about this passage. I go with historians on history, not my feelings.

[@PGB55]

@@vsedai please use your brain. You're making a lot of assumptions with zero evidence. I've listened to hundreds of hours of Ehrman and many others as good or better, and am an atheist. This channel is not apologetics. you apparently don't know what that word means because if you did you would never label this channel as apologetic.

[@PGB55]

@@vsedai also this channel is not by Christians. You don't know the first thing about this group apparently but keep writing dumb comments to others as well. I also guarantee you don't follow history or historians nor could you tell the difference.

[@rxw5520]

This may be my favorite one yet. I love how he touched on other ideas from previous lectures in a new context..

[@scambammer6102]

since we KNOW much of the TF was forged, the burden of proof is on those who assert any portion of it was not forged to prove that, and to identify the original portions, which nobody can even begin to do. The best that apologists can do is try to argue that parts of the TF might not have been forged, an even those arguments are weak. The whole passage is out of context and varies substantially from Josephus' genuine writing.

[@rxw5520]

@@scambammer6102 I’m sorry, I don’t understand. Are you trying to persuade me that the testinonium Flavian im is an interpolation? That’s what this and other Centre Place lectures have already taught me. The authentic reference is likely Antiquities book 20 chapter 9 where he mentions James as the brother of Jesus “who was called Christ”, considering a Christian editor would almost certainly have phrased it “Jesus who was Christ” or “Jesus Christ”. As for “burden of proof” arguments, it depends what the question is you’re asking. But I don’t think prevailing or contemporary wisdom would necessarily change where it lies. If the question is “did Jesus exist?” I think the burden of proof certainly lies with the person who is trying to argue that he did, and the mention in Antiquities alongside near-contemporary writings of Paul seem to be the evidence that has convinced most people he did exist. If the question is “is all this stuff true, was Jesus the messiah, did he come back from the dead” etc, the burden of proof also lies on the one claiming it did happen. The problem is there’s no real evidence it did happen, but that’s why they call it faith. Faith is believing something without evidence. If you had hard evidence of all of this, you wouldn’t need faith. The decision of whether or not to believe it is up to the person. Personally I don’t care I just find this time period and the birth of Christianity extremely fascinating.

[@gregorybyrne2453]

Judaeo Christian is an oxymoronic term. Double minded man You don't put old covenant wine into God's New Covenant wine skins. Jews were Anti Jesus is humanities Christ Messiah 2023 years ago and are still AntiChrists today the days of Noah Jesus warned us to watch and prepare for. Yeshua Hamishia, Jesus Messiah! Who takes away the past sins of the world exposing the conspiracy that is the Jewish Sanhedrin, the father of lies, brood of vipers, synagogue of Satan. Welcome to the days of Noah.

[@michaelcannon3370]

thumbs up for the bolo tie lol. he has filled in gaps of info that I had wondered about but didn't know where to look or start. great resource I'll follow him

[@johnydevassia]

Congratulations for the deepest study and the subtle presentation

[@Nexthendrix2112]

I named my dog Josephus, and I took him to training where he almost fought with another dog named Titus… what are the chances?

[@KenJackson_US]

Don't you feel silly yelling _"Josephus!"_ out your front door to retrieve him?

[@Nexthendrix2112]

@@KenJackson_US nope not at all

[@MaryGloeckner]

So easy to follow! Admire this guy! Great educator!

[@vhawk1951kl]

Google Josephus debunked

[@beatricereja1664]

Wow! Just what I've been looking for. Great presentation.

[@kennethsnyder9236]

This philosophical argument parallels with what I have learned about over the years. I have subsequently prescribed this channel for further studies.

[@histguy101]

I was under the impression that Latin manuscripts of Josephus are all Renaissance translations, and that Josephus was not very popular in the west during the middle ages.

[@alangriffin8146]

Of course John had a complete works of Josephus as a teen. Love it!

[@vhawk1951kl]

Josephus had ti vbe invented because there was no evidence that jesus had evver existedand when the belief alone loons realise they are coming unstuck they spilt their bets and try some sort of pseud science like that hillbilly fake phd that isists genesis(which is no too bad as novels go) can be substantiated with evince Ido wish that they would just stick to the dumnass belief bet and not keep splitting their bets because it makes them look bad liars and worse fools- they go no evidence needed because we belieeeeve and then invent or reinterpret substantiates nothing god-on - toast is a three-legged donkey but backing it to place is even more stupid. Noacchian flood is also a no-hoper and a dogeared cutting from the Old testament Herald Tribune forecasting rain for 40 days not really let it place either Josephus my arse! It is a sort of christian Piltdown man

[@GrammarDrops]

Another amazing lecture. Thank you, John. ❤

[@centre-place]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

People stopped identifying as Pharisees because so many high-profile members of the church were from that school. The Pharisees were bees in the bonnet of the Sadducees, which was the sect that had Jesus killed. But Pharisees were all over the Jerusalem church in the first century. In Acts, it talks about the Pharisees being the ones who were pushing for the circumcision of the Gentiles. Indeed, James the Just is identified as such a one. Gamaliel, a Pharisee, was a very high profile rabbi who cautioned against treating the Christians too severely, "...lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." Gamaliel, in fact, was Paul's rabbi. So there were a lot of political reasons to disown the Pharisees.

[@tabularasa0606]

This was far more interesting than expected.

[@dnaphysics]

John Hamer, here, is the opposite of Josephus - John gives me the vibe of being thoroughly objective. Very comforting to relax the B.S. detector

[@apollo8352]

I really appreciate your conclusions based on sound logic.

[@nash984954]

Love the scholarship in and of these videos. How to copy them, buy them etc?

[@larryc835]

Fantastic symposium.💯

[@_CR_]

Excellent lecture … thank you very much

[@andreteixeira5635]

Thiis was a really interesting class! Many thanks and greetings from a History loving and Roman Catholic from Brazil!

[@frankiewally1891]

well,he did not really switch,simply was spared by Romans for his bravery and sagacity,while defending some area around the city Jotapata.But thank you very much for this presentation,really throws some light on a very murky past.

[@atheistapostate7019]

I think due to the mentioning of James and the Jesus connection there, the latter verses are original BUT added too, more than likely by Eusesibius

[@martyfromnebraska1045]

Cope

[@henryy-tq8tn]

Massive cope lmao zero evidence

[@onedirection2301]

"Atheist Apostate", are you sure you don't have some kind of bias here? 🤣

[@atheistapostate7019]

@@onedirection2301 actually not at all ;) I am an atheist who does not reject Jesus as a historical figure, and rely on scholars who've spent a life time studying these issues. Either way it does not change my view that Jesus was only a regular human that magical stories sprung up about, and he wasn't anything that special outside of Paul making him so.

[@onedirection2301]

​@@atheistapostate7019 okay, fair enough. (I wrote a letter to you on my about page). I'm fairly familiar with the view that Paul made him out to be more than just a man. Some even say it was Paul who transformed Jesus into the "son of God." I'm curious, what makes you say this? (I'm a Christian, so I have my own biases!) Whenever I read the letters of Paul, it just seems like he's writing to people who already believe that Jesus was special, i.e. Jesus' resurrection is already assumed, in many of Paul's arguments. Those would be consistent with him writing to a bunch of people who already believed this. (His lengthy argument in 1 Cor 15 is about defending a general resurrection of the dead. He uses the resurrection of Jesus as an argument FOR a general resurrection.)

[@steviewax]

The talk is a well presented and extensive scholarly presentation on Josephus and the fate of the Jews at the time of the Roman destruction of the 2nd temple in Jerusalem. While the speaker shows No direct affiliation with Israel and Judaism, the speakers insights would provide valuable insights to the Jewish people and Israelis.

[@TonyRomeo9796]

Anybody who claims Abraham is a myth is wrong, on top of a few other of his interpretation

[@Steve-u9k4p]

Extraordinary as always, ty👍

[@luluadapa5222]

Many thanks John. A wonderfully balanced and thorough view of Josephus Flavius. His complete works was my last book purchase. I'm looking forward to working my way through his voluminous writings, and revisiting your fascinating upload. Your cartography-based talks are equally as fascinating. Kind regards from England 💜🙏

[@davidgladstone5261]

Balanced? Covering for his transgressions and crimes?

[@vsedai]

@@davidgladstone5261 That is exactly what I was thinking

[@vsedai]

@jewLUBEkneegahRsWHINE Just google Josephus Jesus controversy. As someone else said below " The biggest problem for me with the 'Jesus paragraph ' isn't just the fact that Josephus suddenly becomes a devout Christian for a few words before going back to being Jewish. It's the fact that the paragraph is literally jammed in the middle of another one. The text fits together better if you simply take the paragraph out completely"

[@vsedai]

@jewLUBEkneegahRsWHINE Ya right. Why are you even in this conversation, when it is obvious that you don't follow Christ?

[@scambammer6102]

@@vsedai lol follow your little make-believe puppet

[@kjmax1068]

Barbara Theirings book said it was hard to find anything in Josephus' writings about Yeshua/Jesus. It was decades ago when I read it so cant remember all I read

[@kevwhufc8640]

There is no evidence that Josephus existed, the only evidence we have is less than 600 years old. So called copies of copies of copies of..... But no real evidence at all.

[@dynomiteslim4590]

I also feel that a partial interpolation is the most likely. It's not hard to imagine scribes coming across a rather matter of fact mention of Jesus and thinking , we had better add a few things here.

[@scambammer6102]

it's easier to imagine someone making the whole thing up. We KNOW much of it is forged. It's pure speculation that some of it wasn't. Or even if so, what part wasn't.

[@onedirection2301]

@@scambammer6102 "easier to imagine" is not how scholarship works, though. We don't KNOW much of it is forged. For all we know, it could be pretty much what Josephus actually wrote.

[@scambammer6102]

@@onedirection2301 I only used that phrase because the OP did. Funny that you do the same thing. MY point is that, since we know much of it is fake, none of it is reliable.

[@glenngrowe7105]

Very objective, balanced, and informative. Thank you.

[@Robert_L_Peters]

I think this guy needs a bolo tie. Am I wrong?

[@siddhartha9189]

Definitely true!!!

[@amazingbibleantiquities7221]

You're so wrong!

[@adriennepatterson6113]

I think he would love to find one in the mail! Turquoise?

[@dannywalters2365]

And elbow patches

[@adriennepatterson6113]

@dannywalters2365 that's so Ted 😄

[@rubenducheny2788]

Wonderful lecture! Amazing!

[@stephen2975]

Why did his followers give up everything to follow his teaching even laying down their lives? They were thoroughly convinced of his God like character and his resurrection

[@annascott3542]

Yeah I mean why doesn’t everyone just believe everything they’re told? Why can’t they just accept what they’re told, deny reality, submit and obey even against their own self-interest? What could possibly be wrong or go wrong with that? 🤷‍♀

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Why did many follow the younger chinese brother of Jesus - Hong Xiuquan - and start a rebellion that caused the deaths of 20-30 million people? People be crazy yo!

[@peterblock6964]

¿Why, @stephen2975, are millions of donald trump's followers willing to believe anything and everything that gaslighting con man tells them to believe, and do anything he tells them to do? They've been gaslit, convinced, and hypnotized into believing he is "anointed by God" to lead them.

[@CTechAstronomy]

They didn’t give up much man they were illiterate and didn’t have a PS5

[@neocount6397]

Most of the ones who died during the conquest weren't Christian.

[@dovbarleib3256]

Pharisee is a Meforesh in Hebrew, one who *interprets* the Written Torah with the Oral Torah.

[@ConservativeArabNet]

Excellent presentation: like reading a book in 1 hr

[@humblethinker8493]

Wow, this was great! I wonder if the host here has any thoughts of the idea of a late composition of the Old Testament, that the Septuagint text in 270bce was not a translation but rather was the original, as people like Russell Gmirkin propose.

[@zobewan9347]

Appreciate all the hard work putting this together. Have you done something comparing the Septuagint and the masoretic texts. Because Jesus quoted the Septuagint, I think, and it differs from that quote in the masoretic. See Is 61:1 and Luke 4:18. Are there more differences?

[@joeanderson8839]

He was a historian who gives accounts of events during the time of Christ.

[@michaltaylor8926]

Josephis was born after when jesus was killed. So what you said is not true at all.

[@jamesmorris9816]

Flavio Barbiero’s book The Secret Society of Moses might be of interest to anyone interested in Josephus.

[@robbinpapalucas4620]

Look into Ralph Ellis work on this topic. Ralph is a very in-depth researching on this subject.

[@wendyhughes2234]

1 Corinthians 13:12 NLT Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as YUH now knows me completely.

[@Malouco]

Isaiah and Joseph are what makes me believe in Jesus

[@davewhitley5612]

Flavius Josephus aka Arrius Calpurnius Piso, was part Jewish but totally roman. Magnificent writer, did a great job turning the feats of Titus Flavius into Jesus. See Caesars Messiah. The Romans were losing and needed a plan.

[@kevwhufc8640]

Who were the Romans losing to ? A genuine question,,

[@donaldcarpenter5328]

OMG finally TRUTH on the "web" of LIES!!!

[@gaillee5747]

Is it possible Solomon used different trees to discuss different people groups in Tanakh?

[@jd-gw4gr]

sound bit 14:54 the gentlemen states the supposition if josephus used aramaic and again stress the suppositional phrase if, then concludes when a definitive statement based upon a supposition previously made: did i miss something here? his definitive conclusion is based upon an assumption, why is that. how can one draw an conclusion based on "if" and then state the result as ??????? as what, it is still an hypothesis, yes or no: who can help with this, what is i miss?

[@tomdungey8505]

It appears that he supposed a lot of stuff based on his view of his studies I'm I right?

[@eyeswideshut1989]

@@tomdungey8505 Is the original commenter referring to Josephus? If so, I would surmise that he drew conclusions based on "if's* due to the fact that he was a sage/seer/saer. One such Man, by seeing/saeing all sides/angles- Can postulate a conclusion based on an "if" due to this very reason. Literacy is very literal, however, with sufficient "if's" one can weave a more complete picture which tells 1000 tales. With enough pieces of a puzzle- one can hypothesize the finished product. "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."

[@tomdungey8505]

@@eyeswideshut1989 OK it's fine to do that but thoundands of ifs doesn't mean it's the true story. To completely believe the ifs is to be mislead. This guy seems to have lots of his ifs in his truth. It's misleading to present it as complete truth.

[@eyeswideshut1989]

@@tomdungey8505 I innerstand what you're saying, but you're taking my literacy too literal- which is to be expected. If by using "if" he is using it in a hypothetical sense- then the situation is no different then current scientific studies and the like... They surmise based on their hypotheses. That being said, I still agree with your statement. However, it is said that Josiphus was a sage/seer. Whether you "believe" such a thing could/does exist is irrelevant in this scenario- so why not play devil's advocate a little? Say you have the ability to see all angles/sides to a topic/subject at hand. BUT, just because you can SEE/SAE all sides- doesn't mean you have the capability to actually compile them, since a sage/seer/saer is just that, and not a builder. What would someone who has such a capability do in this scenario? You can see all angles- but you're not a builder. You would sae what you see, relaying all angles/if's, in the best structured manner possible for those who do not posses such capabilities (99.99% of people) because you can't build it for them in some sort of physical manner- the best possible hope is to use the least best option of the day- literacy. By the worst option, I refer to the fact that first came Language, then -> Numbers -> Signs & Symbols -> Runes ... Catch my drift?

[@eyeswideshut1989]

@@tomdungey8505 I also do not believe I recall hearing anywhere that it is said that HE said "it is complete truth". What is "complete truth"? What is "truth"? Is there just "one truth" or does everyone have their "own truth"? Is it in the eye of the beholder? My point is- the best possible way to navigate such stories from someone such as Josiphus is to attempt to walk the middle path while interpreting. Good/Bad are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, when it comes to a Man such as Josiphus. They walk the walk and talk the talk... All we can do is do our best to try to follow in His footsteps in complete darkness with only his words to guide us. Food for thought.

[@hombrepobre9646]

you know I like this guy, he is humble. I've watched a lot of his lecture

[@wendyhughes2234]

Thank you for this in-depth information. May YUH [God] bless you, your family, and your ministry.

[@zhengfuukusheng9238]

It's very likely Josephus himself was a literary character, a mere nome de plume used by Roman scribes. From his absolutely extraordinary treachery of his own people to his tall tales that mirrored Paul and Jeesus....to his incredible escape from an equally improbable suicide pact at Masada. The Romans were expert propagandists, who, when needing more evidence to back up their position, weren't alien to the idea of making up witnesses, 1st, 2nd or 3rd hand ones. The more the merrier

[@donaldcarpenter5328]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@AfterBurner369]

Happy 3️⃣7️⃣th Birthday Ben! 🤩🥳😎🍰🧁🍕🥙🥂🎊🎉💃🕺

[@johnmasterson2534]

Hi just listened to dr.henery abrahamson,can youhelp me,question....he suggests that comment on jesus was added a little comment re jesus suggesting a certain slant

[@pauladenaro5697]

I appreciate all his hypotheses about what he may have written versus what may have been inserted. He doesn't mention that it could also be exactly how Josephus wrote it. Who knows one way or the other? Perhaps like the soldiers at the cross Josephus got the message and believed. We don't really know.

[@wendyhughes2234]

.Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 KJV 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

[@geridayao8924]

Who do they often neglect to point out that he was also a pharisee?

[@youta5]

Best source for info about Christianity.

[@mcgie2002]

I absolutely love these lectures, but i’m a bit puzzled by your … denomination for lack of a better word, in light of all this truth seeking historical criticism? Does that make sense?

[@chrisconrod9560]

Heaven forbid that someone seeks the truth! Are you afraid that the truth will hurt your faith?

[@mcgie2002]

@@chrisconrod9560 Quite the opposite. You misread

[@wungabunga]

@@chrisconrod9560That’s a terribly naive assumption on your part. Look at the likes of Tabor, who is clearly desperate for Christianity to be debunked. All under the parasol of ‘purely historical investigation’. My guess (in Tabor’s case) is one too many visits to the Holy Land.

[@chrisconrod9560]

@@wungabunga Christianity was debunked a long time ago. Give it up.

[@wungabunga]

@@chrisconrod9560 Then what are you wasting your time discussing it for? Manichaeism debate much? No, no. I think you are indeed upset by its enduring popularity and truth. I bid you good day, sir.

[@jonnybricks22]

The minute I heard the omission of Josephus quote of what Jesus looked like I stopped listening. Josephus said Jesus was black with prognathism and bushy hair with a part like the other Nazereans. Bogus lecture by revisionists

[@wendyhughes2234]

John 16:33 Amplified Bible I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace. In the world, [Terrarium] you have tribulation and distress and suffering, but be courageous [be confident, be undaunted, be filled with joy]; I have overcome the world.” [My conquest is accomplished, My victory abiding.]

[@mayermargolis8990]

This is an excellent lecture. Could you please identify the lecturer? You don’t even give his name.

[@ncarmstron]

Jon Hamer

[@mayermargolis8990]

Thanks

[@mishaanton5436]

After listening to 3 lectures I have a question? Do you day of the Bible that "It has come down to us" ?

[@darkijah-andersjehovahsn7893]

I disagree, I think Josephus could have written those things on Christ - but as it is, everybody wanna attack any witness on Christ. It would not be to mysteries if he actually knew who Christ was, but did not wanna further go into proclaiming it not liking the idea. I found 1 more not usually spoken about that was very interesting coming from him. And there might be a lot more, but have far from read everything from him. 6. For all men, the just as well as the unjust, shall be brought before God the Word: for to him hath the Father committed all judgment : and he, in order to fulfill the will of his Father, shall come as Judge, whom we call Christ. - Josephus first century historian and Jew - adopted as a Roman citizen

[@andylyon3867]

Shakespeare spent 8 years as a child studying Latin he could read Latin better any modern scholar of Latin today. He did not need translations as would be true for ALL English school boys of that time.

[@annascott3542]

Lololol yeah… sure he did!!! What a con.

[@andylyon3867]

@@annascott3542 no con he spent 8 years going to school where everything was in Latin.

[@user-tg3tj2nq6v]

@@annascott3542 All of them studied Latin and Greek. Hardly nothing was in English, there was no English literature. Newton kept notes in Greek.

[@aliceputt3133]

They all studied Latin and Greek at that time but there was also considerable English poetry and drama from Ben Johnson, Spencer, Francis Bacon, and Christopher Marlowe among others. They were contemporary with Shakespeare. This is the Tudor Stuart period leading to the King James Bible.

[@markcharron]

Josephus really seems to embody the notion of "I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe..."

[@leonceboudreauxwolf]

I don't know if it's true or not but read somewhere that Josephus had written down a physical description of Jesus. If that's true I'd love to get my hands on a copy.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

How would he have come by that? Jesus of Nazareth is a figure of miniscule importance in his works and it is...very odd to think that Josephus would have bothered to record such a thing, even if he had it (which, obviously, he didn't). There is no reason to think the appearance of Jesus of Nazareth differed in any significant way from that of the typical Jewish male in the Levant at the time.

[@1stblackmanonthenet]

@@chuckschillingvideos miniscule importance in his works as perceived by the world or His followers? Just looking for clarity (off-topic)

[@Canonimus]

How possible would be that Josephus wouldn’t mention that this character was a disciple of John the Bautist? For me has always be bizarre that he didn’t make that connection. The important point for Josephus is Pilate. The second passage is also problematic, but even if it is original it does not match with christian tradition about how James died…

[@donaldcarpenter5328]

Josephus did NOT live in the time of Jesus but 70-90 years LATER!!! He didn't even see PAul!!! Did NOT even MENTION PAUL at ALL!!!

[@simoneneveragain2939]

OMG!! REAL HISTORY finally!

[@donaldcarpenter5328]

Sorry, its FAKE,FAKE FAKE!!!

[@captainwillygrimm338]

"I Know My Disciples and They Know Me." Jesus Of Nazareth, Our Christ. This admonition of our Saviour came to Him as an insult. Our King Trusted In His Disciples....Us.

[@pkemoiarapkandie]

Could josephus himself use the name jesus at that time? or it's just part of the editing done latter...

[@rickvassell8349]

I like to think of it as "ce" or Christian era and "bce" as before the Christian era.

[@juliadolker9854]

Only that the years 0 to 2023 was not the Christian era for most people.

[@medina4600]

@@juliadolker9854what are you talking about? Christianity is the largest religion by number of devotees/ converts in 2023 and that’s been the case since 350 AD.

[@Philip-bk2dm]

@@medina4600 He said from zero not 359 C.E. , that's a long time, and you refer to those who identify as belonging to a recognized religion and that leaves a lot of people out of the picture. But what does it matter?

[@thoughtfuloutsider]

​@medina4600 and @Juliadolker9854 I don't think you can say Christianity was the largest religion from 350ce onwards. By that time Buddhism was important in China, and with Hinduism in India and south-east Asia. From 650-700ce in the next 200 yrs Islam spread very quickly replacing the Greco-Roman empire from India to Spain and up to China. Europe's conversion was only completed 1400s with the crusades against the Slavs and in Spain against the Muslims.

[@777rogerf]

@@thoughtfuloutsiderCounting people who have been conquered and forced on pain of death to convert to a religion is questionable when evaluating the comparative popularity of religions.

[@iamthenotbenamed365]

Bedenk; zonder deze vermeende Persoon verdwijnen vele-Verhaaltjes naar het Rijk-der-Fantasten ...

[@ralphowen3367]

I am reading Joseph's now, but now and then I find some troubling errors. Two glaring ones are when he disserts on David being confronted by Nathan the prophet about his sin with Bathsheba and her husband. First, Joseph's says that this visitation came by a dream. Then Josephus says that this double mortal sin was the first sin the king ever committed in his entire life.

[@TheEbble]

How do you know 'for' Josephus what he might have concluded about Jesus?🤔🤔🤔

[@meskes4059]

What if he was writing it as directed by Flavious?

[@greenier8658]

Thanks!

[@epeeypen]

i notice a pattern when historical academia is applied to these text.. often they take passages and statements and then attribute different authors or inserts in order to back up their random assertion. same thing happens in Deuteronomy .. they just invent the idea of multiple authors.

[@kensmith8152]

Thank you for pointing out how Hellenistic thought permeated into Christianity. This is where in Christianity the belief in the immortal soul or Neoplatonism came into popularity. The Bible teaches that at death, man sleeps to await the resurrection on Christ’s return. No one goes to heaven or hell until judgment day. Later on in the Roman church adopts worship of saints, statues and Mary

[@evelynmoyer9069]

I like the idea proposed by Joseph Atwill that Caesar's Messiah was created by Josephus.

[@albusai]

Paul the apostle prohibited fallowing the Law. So was the first council in the book of acts..

[@deathguppie]

The biggest problem for me with the 'Jesus paragraph ' isn't just the fact that Josephus suddenly becomes a devout Christian for a few words before going back to being Jewish. It's the fact that the paragraph is literally jammed in the middle of another one. The text fits together better if you simply take the paragraph out completely.

[@milearsic6303]

He actually invented rabbinic Judaism and what’s left as the TRASH and Extra end up in messianic movement they build over 300-700 years and labeled Christianity . In the begin there was no Christ or what’s so ever , they started 3 main fractions : Calcedonian , manecians and Aryan , each of them viewed legend from different understanding

[@davidgladstone5261]

This was total BS. He didn't know Jesus from Adam.

[@histguy101]

It's pretty widely agreed that some flourishing was added to an existing paragraph, possibly as a copyist footnotes being incorporated into the next copy. Reconstructions have been made. The problem with suggesting the whole thing was inserted is that this was referenced in ancient times. It might be explainable if the quote wasn't referenced until the 9th-10th century in Constantinople, where you have more of a bottleneck of ancient Greek manuacripts being copied, but in the 2nd and 3rd century, it would have been more widely disseminated

[@toosiyabrandt8676]

@@milearsic6303 The Apostles had the ‘ Image made without hands’ which is still with us and has been scientifically authenticated as having been caused by a burst of supercharged radiation at the time of His resurrection ( Robert Rucker nuclear physicist) Shalom to us only in Christ Yeshua returning soon to reign over the world from Jerusalem.

[@annascott3542]

@@histguy101 it was referenced by Eusebius, and hen not again for around 3 or 400 years. It sounds Eusebiuen, he was a known liar, even proud of it and we know all our manuscripts go back to one single manuscript: the one from Eusebius’ library. This is based on scholarship that’s come out in recent years.

[@mohinfahim7280]

A group of Jews are directly mentioned in the Samaritans' Book of Asatir, And after the death of Abraham, Ishmael reigned twenty seven years. And all the children of Nebaot [Ishmael's son] ruled for one year in the lifetime of Ishmael, And for thirty years after his death from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates; and they built Mecca.” [The Asatir - The Samaritan Book of The “Secret of Moses; Gaster, Moses (1927). VIII, page 262] That is, the descendants of Ishmael (a.s.) began to rule during his lifetime. They built the city of Makkah. In that book, the famous Jewish historian Josephus (37 AD-100 AD) is quoted as saying: Josephus I. 12. 3. 221: "These inhabited all the countries from the Euphrates to the Red Sea, and called it Nabatene." Gen. 25. 18. Pal.Targ.: "And they dwelled from Hindikia (Indian Ocean) to Palusa (Pelusiumt which is before Egypt as thou goest to Atur (Assyria). In Kebra Ch. 83: many countries are enumerated over which Ishmael ruled "Built Mecca." That is, according to Josephus, the Ishmaelites built Mecca.

[@alexanderbrown7631]

Yes I think you are around 70 - 75% right.

[@Rico-Suave_]

Watched all of it 1:51:15

[@g2D1]

Very well said, however, the presenter's arguments could be argued both ways. Since as he states "There are no uncorrupted versions of Josephus" Then one can also say that there may have been a greater, more in-depth mention of Jesus and was redacted from it. One has to remember that Jesus was "Persona Non-Grata within the Sanhedrin and it had tremendous influence over scholars and scribes. There is also mention of Jesus by the Historian "Tacitus" and the mere mention of his name proves that Jesus the man existed :-)

[@ghanvedsingh8946]

Who was he and why he matters that much?

[@Knife_Collector]

I have a six book set of the Works of Josephus printed in 1825. Not sure I want to read them, as the pages may start falling apart due to age.

[@kevwhufc8640]

Being from Victorian times They might be worth a few bucks . I'd look into the $$ value. :)

[@ConservativeArabNet]

I notice that Egyptian Muslims seems to influenced by Judean mythology as very old mosques have no minerates nor qibla , washing room outside

[@VayaconDios018]

God dont exists in time, everything is a moment, so free will can and is posible despite God knowing everything.

[@daretta-gx4fb]

Going forward....

[@marvinacklin792]

Good stuff

[@David-w7d4l]

He does not need a bolo tie. He should have taught ferrisbuellar. Ferris would have been more inspired in his studies😅😊😁

[@darkijah-andersjehovahsn7893]

""So, a history is more factual, is non-fiction, is academic. It really happened, whereas a story is more imaginary, it's fiction, it's narrative.""

[@darkijah-andersjehovahsn7893]

I guess the problem with history, is that in Danish we seemed to have one world of History being synonyms with story. Oddly enough.... Hmmmm I don't know... mmkay.

[@abeldutchover9924]

Josephus was a pen name for Arius Calpurnias Piso a Roman general of Jewish decent.

[@jayledermann7701]

I agree the reference to Jesus could have been added , however there is no proof he didn't write about him as well. Those early Christians would go to their horrible deaths for their faith , so I would say they saw Jesus do things.

[@cali7150]

They always question anything about Jesus 🙄.

[@Ma1q444]

They always do, it’s so funny as well because most atheist claim to be logical but yet they prop conspiracy theorists with literally no basis or evidence just claims.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

I think this is a deliberate rewrite of history. The Jews in the first century did NOT view the Greek Old Testament (LXX) as a threat but used it as a reliable text. We know the LXX was used in the synagogue because Jesus read out of it in Luke 4. Nobody ever complained in the first century that Paul and the other apostles were using the LXX instead of the Hebrew. That didn't happen until much later. Keep in mind that the Masoretic Text didn't exist prior to the ninth century AD. The MT is a translation of an ancient Hebrew text into Hebrew. It uses vowelizations, diacritical markings - jots and tittles - not found in the ancient Hebrew texts.

[@tamooz2]

why a prosecuted person would do that and risk his life, more if you are correct , find your original copy and compare if a person distort a text , better to write full book and other book about Jesus and stick them to famous writers but in your twisted jew mind full of hate to Jesus; it seem you have devoted your life to poison christian mind with your dirty mind

[@stevenguevara2184]

At Summer Camp? You were advanced to say the least

[@torjusekkje6264]

There is a 0% chance, that the shortened version of TF has any substance to it.

[@CharlesJohnson-ui2pk]

Okay, as a believer, I am tempted to believe Josephus did write those verses, However, why wouldn’t he? Because he’s a devout Jew? The gospel of Christ is all about the devout Jews converting to his message. Why would Josephus’ maybe “Christian “ curiosity. be concerning?

[@Sphere723]

Because the rest of the writtings by Josephus make clear he was a Pharrisee, a Jewish philosophical movement very much at odds with early Christianity. On top of that Josephus spends a lot of effort trying to convince his fellow Jews that the Roman Emperor (who is Josephus' Patron), is the Messiah sent by God to rule the Jews. A passage where he openly endorses Jesus as the Messiah seems really silly.

[@darkijah-andersjehovahsn7893]

There are many things that make me think Josephus wrote both on Christ. Lets take one, he is writing after the Jews rebellion failed against the Romans - he knew the Messiah had to come... If any Jew honestly looks back unto things, and the times when they expected the Messiah to come, there is really only one Historical option to choose from. Might not like it, but there is only one that fits the bill. Thereby he might not have wanted to write further on it, not liking it, yet mention it anyway as he knew it was true.