The Islamic Concept of Miracles | The Evidence Course | Session 5 / Part 1

[@erTalhaKhan]

Best series on internet for comprehensive proof of Allah and Islam. May Allah reward br Sharief & TAP team for making it so easy and understandable. Jazakallah khair.

[@farazahmad7229]

MasaAllah brother Your way of presenting is beautiful

[@billionburns]

*Infidel* is an ecclesiastical term in Christianity around which the Church developed a body of theology that deals with the concept of infidelity, which makes a clear differentiation between those who were baptized and followed the teachings of the Church versus those who are outside the faith. The term infidel was used by Christians to describe those perceived as the enemies of Christianity.

[@tasneemsakifibnealam949]

8:48 important point which many fail to understand

[@HussainFahmy]

*_We can also discount 3 gods as 1 God._*

[@homtanks7259]

Jazakallahu khairan

[@Abdulaziz_M54]

this might be a typo at 4:05

[@ThoughtAdventurePodcast]

Jazakallah khayran for pointing out the error. It demonstrates that whatever a human produces will have errors whereas the Quran is free from error even though once it was recited by the prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) there was no ability to re-edit it if there were any mistakes.

[@thepathofguidance5684]

Musa a.s. story is interesting to me for another reason. Imagine the army of firawm, the ordinary foot soldiers, why did they chase him head long into the parted waters? Imagine you are being ordered to apprehend a man who seemed to split a body water clear in two? I wonder if some of them held back at least out of caution? If we are granting the truth of the narrative of course. Maybe they though the parting of waters was in the realms of what they had experienced, heard of from magicians etc.

[@djaxx587]

Ok so you mention some things from some books but how do you know those things actually happened?

[@ThoughtAdventurePodcast]

The purpose of this video isn’t to assume these things happened but rather to explain what is understood as miraculous and thus a sign or evidence for a divine origin. 1. Inimitable act. Ie beyond naturalistic explanation or beyond human productive capacity. 2. In a subject area the people are intimately familiar with. 3. Challenged the people to replicate this so called inimitable act. As Sharif explained the stories of previous prophets cannot be used as evidence for the truthfulness of Islam as these events are established due to textual evidence and not rational evidence. The question is however that for us to claim anything is a miracle today then it would need to fulfill some of the points elaborated in the video.

[@djaxx587]

@@ThoughtAdventurePodcast _"and thus a sign or evidence for a divine origin. "_ But in order for something to be evidence or a sign of the divine miraculous events must be true right? Hence my initial question. _"Challenged the people to replicate this so called inimitable act."_ Isn't this challenge a bit disingnouse since it is not established that such acts could really happen in the first place?

[@brahimz0r]

@@djaxx587 I mean do you believe anything in history happened? Why? If you were to take the scrutiny and backbone of narrations in Sahih al-Bukhari and take that as your criteria/standard, you wouldn't believe anything in history happened because pretty much nothing meets that criteria If you are really interested simply do research on the science of hadith, there's a reason why Sahih al-Bukhari is taken as granted, he memorized over 100,000 narrations and only about 8000 made it into his book

[@djaxx587]

@@brahimz0r No I don't but it should at least meet the standards of the historical method which hadith simply doesn't meet as far as I know. Plus Hadith are biased since there was a need to write them since the quran wasn't sufficient enough. As far as miracles. If those truly happened I would expect incredible evidence not just one sided reports that don't have contemporary evidence only story's from hearsay. I mean Believe what you want, I just need a bit more evidence as being claimed.

[@MrBebaslepas]

@@djaxx587 "I mean Believe what you want, I just need a bit more evidence as being claimed." The problem is, who forced you to believe what we believe so that makes you think you need some evidences for those miracles? it's so funny somehow you make it as if we need your approval? whether you accept or reject them is none of our business.

[@matthewbardos4424]

I have a very simple question. If none of the miracles described in the Quran and the (accepted) Hadiths actually occurred, does that falsify Islam as a whole?

[@billionburns]

Positive!

[@srcp1551]

Well, this is just like: If A claims that B is true. But C proves that B is false. Then that renders the claim of A false. i.e. Well, first one will have to see what A is claiming, and then C will have to PROVE that A's claim is wrong. If C can do that, then certainly, A is wrong. Same with your question or with anything. If I claim that I made a machine. You prove that I did not make a machine. Then I did not make a machine and my claim was wrong. etc.... which is to say that your question is a general idea.

[@matthewbardos4424]

@@srcp1551 If you claim that you made machine, then don't YOU have the burden of proof? Why would I have to prove the negative in that case?

[@billionburns]

@@matthewbardos4424 You're missing the point that the Qur'an by itself is a miracle. If you want to go by the machine analogy then the "machine" (Qur'an) is there you have only to proof that it isn't that what it claims to be - the Word of God reveald to a 7th century illiterate arab shepherd. How would you do this?

[@srcp1551]

@@matthewbardos4424 Quran does provide all the proofs for its claims. Now if someone questions these claims or he has an issue with quran, that person will have to come up with the proofs/arguements. (simple logic). Try giving Quran a read. otherwise you or anyone saying, for/against Quran is in the air.

[@1niyon]

Hmm, I think you may have butchered the meaning and context of the quoted verse. Within the same verse it mentions "so that humanity may stand by equittable rations" or something akin to that. The "bayinaat", the so called evidences here might just be guidance to show people how to act justly, and within their own standards without over reaching. That isn't to say there aren't other verses that you could have quoted. There are plenty of verses that talk about Sending messengers with "ayat" which are signs... and that would play stronger into the narrative you are peddling here. Now there is a larger issue I think I have with your narrative. You say there must be a person who performs inimitable acts but the issue is here is something might appear inimitable to us but not really be inimitable, or something might be inimitable but we might think it is reproducible. We have a poor record of figuring out what is and is not possible. A century ago nobody would have posited the claim that they could create new matter from energy without being considered a mad man. And yet in the present day we can do that. If this technology was kept secret and then performed today we would think they were either doing magic or have had some sort of divine favor bestowed upon them. But lets even consider more grounded claims. Speaking in tongues, raising the dead, curing the sick, even walking on water dare i say? These things arent really very far beyond explanation should a person do it today. So what exaclty are you looking for in a miracle? An incredible coincidence? Dare I say, there will actually never be complete proof that any feat is actually a miracle, and even if such were to occur and you be sure of it... how could you know it was a god that granted it and not merely the act of unknown beings that manipulate elements unknown to ourselves? There are way too many holes in the miracles narrative. The only thing a miracle can do is to establish or uphold contracts people make, where they ask for a particular miracle or sign, and claim that if they are shown it they shall believe. In accordance, should they disbelieve after, they have lied and that is their sin. "show us a sign if you are truthful" they say. But i know myself, that even should i see a sign, it would not be an evidence or proof of a god, rather, it is indication that I should probably pay attention to associated messages ... as it comes from something i dont understand. If i learn about how it happened, i learned something new. If i dont, then i must speculate as to what might have been its cause taking into consideration potentially unknown variables. That isnt to say i should dismiss the possiblity of god. its just that it doesnt prove for certain it is from God... and even if it did, there is no garuntee that any associated message is neccesarily from god.

[@1niyon]

to qualify my claim of miracles not being far beyond my reach: We could have a person whose heart beat stopped, and isnt taking any more breaths... yet be put on life support, and be "shocked to life" in laymens terms. Was he not lifeless before ? And if you say ok, death means to the point where a person cant come back, you are assuming the conclusion. State your conditions for death. I assure you for what ever reasonable condition you place, we have an exception to the rule. If its about brain activity we have cases where the brain activity has been halted but then has returned... if breath , heart rate.. you know the drill . If its about the start of the decay process then we have people who have entered that state but have come around... if its about conciousness we have cases where people were unconcious.... So in all fairness, we technically do raise the dead (By Allah's will) . Is that not a miracle in of itself?

[@Oneummahgeneration]

@@1niyon so on the first issue that sharif butchered the verse. Ibn Kathir states about this ayah “The Prophets were given Miracles and Sent with truth and Justice Allah the Exalted said next, ﴿لَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلَنَا بِالْبَيِّنَـتِ﴾ (Indeed We have sent Our Messengers with clear proofs) in reference to the miracles, the unequivocal evidences and the plain proofs,”

[@habasoosy2202]

@yosef h yes but you are claiming that these not so special miracles now a days would be possible 1400 years ago or 2000 years ago?? I find that a bit silly. You gave the example of a defibrillator shocking a person back to life. First, they didn't have that technology 2000 years ago, and if you are saying they did then provide proof. Provide proof that they even had the knowledge that electric shock could bring someone back. Also, no matter how much you want to bring someone back from the dead, if more than a certain amount of time has passed a person will be dead because the brain dies. The miracles don't say a person was brought back to life 8 minutes later (usually how long a person has before brain cells die from lack of oxygen). The whole point of miracles is it was a sign for the people OF THAT TIME. Of course walking on water or something of the likes wouldn't be so special to us right now because there are the likes of David Blane etc who do things like that. You must look at the miracle of your time. And that miracle is the Quran. It is the continuous miracle and it's for YOUR TIME.

[@1niyon]

@@habasoosy2202 My issue is that there are things beyond our understanding in the present day, that should you be educated are not actually supernatural feats. Today , and i mean actually today, there are magic shows all around the world, and the seemingly perform feats that to us definitely seem supernatural. This shouldn't be a qualifier of truth for what else they have to say. "Ive seen it with my own two eyes, this man created a pigeon out of a cloth" would you like me to show you a video? lol. I know how its done, but do you? and thats the issue here. You might believe the Quran is a miracle... but what if it isnt? What if its ordinary ?

[@habasoosy2202]

@@1niyon I don't think you realize, that we are not muslim because Jesus raised someone from the dead (with the permission of Allah), I am not a muslim because Moses split the sea (with the permission of Allah). Those miracles are not what makes me a muslim today or anyone a muslim for that fact because we weren't there to see it. I'm a muslim because I don't believe this world created itself and I don't believe it came from nothing. I just can't believe those two impossibilities. I can't delude myself into belief like athiests do. I also am a muslim because of the quran because it's a continuous miracle. The question is what if it IS miraculous. There are so many miraculous things about it like how would a person know scientific facts that are true today 1400 years ago when they would have never known. How does the quran describe how a fetus is formed? How does the quran describe how the universe is in orbit ? When the evidence is overwhelming it would be delusional to deny it. And I'm not an athiest, I can't go around closing my eyes and ears and saying "I can't see any proof"....well ya your eyes and ears are closed duuuhh.

[@visionmaximus3186]

The channel is about podcasts. Its not effective going against the theme.

[@ThoughtAdventurePodcast]

We are constantly looking to expand our content as some of these contents will appeal to certain audiences even if they don’t appeal to all audiences. Currently the video uploaded is part of a much larger selection of videos taken from “The Evidence Course" that was delivered by Sharif. This video therefore fits within a wider selection of videos that forms part of a course. They are there to help introduce the topics related to establishing the Islamic belief. If you are interested you can go to the playlist to watch the other videos in the series taken from the course. kzbin.info/aero/PLa_sno__Ix3P6L_2U1sgVfuiGwh5VPsxr