The James Ossuary--Getting the Facts Straight

[@Wiggiwan]

Dr. Tabor... I only know you because of Simka, but I love these simple reviews of History... Love your Works!

[@TheBackyardProfessor]

I do also

[@sjappiyah4071]

Watching this in 2022 with hindsight, the court has dismissed the charges against Oded for forgery. Whilst his trade in artefacts was criminal he did not make any inscriptions on the ossuary. Knowing this kills one of the major arguments against the forgery stance. I think now more than ever a re-evaluation by the scholarly community should occur in honour of the 20th year anniversary of its discovery.

[@p.j.simpkins8324]

Very informative

[@erichodge567]

It's always the same...when it comes to Jesus you can never get a straight answer. Nevertheless, it was a great lecture. Thanks, Dr. Tabor.

[@uncleambient]

Thank you Dr Tabor.

[@captainhowdy2782]

It's unfortunate that the Talpiot tomb wasn't properly investigated back in 1980.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

What makes you say that? How do you know it wasn’t investigated properly? Were you there? Just wondering. (By the way, as a non-believer, I really have no religious dog in this fight, but I’ve read both sides and neither are conclusive.)

[@captainhowdy2782]

@@LyleFrancisDelp I 1st heard about the tomb in the doc John Romer's Egypt. He mentioned that a fellow archaeologist, who was a Christian, had told him about the find. Romer asked him why he hadn't heard about it before & his colleague replied that it couldn't be the real Jesus, because his body was in Heaven. I also draw that conclusion from Simcha's book about the discovery of the tomb.

[@kumarg3598]

@@captainhowdy2782 simchas book or documentary. I didn't know he wrote a book on it. There is another documentary refuting simchas arguments. Tabor is in both and he seems to change stories.

[@kumarg3598]

@@LyleFrancisDelp I was about to say what you just said. The israeli authorities reviewed it and dismissed it for a lack of direct evidence. Given the commonality of the names, etc., I would have come to the same conclusion as the authorities. Simcha did make a good point in that the caiphus tomb doest have direct evidence either.

[@captainhowdy2782]

@@kumarg3598 I really enjoyed his book on the tomb. I wish the authorities hadn't been so eager to dispose of the bones & seal up the tomb. The mystery will never be answered. Only argued over.

[@Thor-Orion]

25:27 that’s how I felt when I found the Ark of the Covenant. I thought it was too good to be true but then it vaporized my enemies.

[@kotzting]

Think about this......THE GOSPEL IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE!

[@fartamayo]

I think Jude is the beloved disciple, because he is still a LAD, a small or young boy during the time of Jesus, as described by Peter “and Lord what this young LAD will do?”

[@ymmitjones7904]

I heard somewhere the difference between a religon and a occult is. one the occult means the one they worship is still alive and a religon is that the one they Worship has passed on the the afterlife. Soo the way i look at it as i am part of a occult being Jesus our king who we love and Worship is yet still alive. HE wins they loose..

[@kotzting]

I think you mean "a cult" rather than "occult." Occult refers to worship that is satanic, or demonic. A "cult" is an off-shoot that claims to be the "true Christianity" but is a sad and deceitful imitation of it. For example....., Jehovah's "False" Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Scientists, Mike Bickle, Robert Morris, Branch Davidians, Bethel Church.....etc.

[@davidchurch3472]

Is that why James in Welsh is Iago/Jago ?

[@Shelama]

Very nice, thanks. When was the actual date of the BAS seminar where this presentation was made and video was shot?

[@ConstantCompanion]

I thought James was probably born after jesus. Mary was very young when Jesus was born. Why is it so difficult to think that he might have siblings?

[@ncberz11]

Because Catholicism

[@ConstantCompanion]

@@ncberz11 ohhh. Yeah.

[@EvilXtianity]

The Bible asserts that Jesus had four brothers and multiple sisters.

[@ConstantCompanion]

@@EvilXtianity that's not so hard to imagine. Mary was very young when she married. Her husband Joseph was quite a bit older. He died falling Jesus was born. He may have had kids when he married her and she may have had kids after Jesus was born. It's not that big a deal.

[@EvilXtianity]

@@ConstantCompanion _"It's not that big a deal."_ I never asserted or implied that it was. It was a simple statement of fact. _"...and she may have had kids after Jesus was born."_ Jesus is a fictional character.

[@maegardnermills4292]

It could be a great find. Was any DNA taken?

[@jimtussing]

The possibility that it is that it’s a recent forgery by someone who knew the names and relationships would make it much more valuable probably has a much higher probability than 1.7%.

[@Ghost_bros]

He faked it to get money that's a good motivation

[@dadedowuh]

:)

[@patricktilton5377]

The only thing I take issue with this presentation is the seeming equating of a 'Birther' (i.e. President Obama supposedly having been born in Kenya rather than in Hawaii) with a Mythicist. The jury's still out on this artifact, as well as on the others mentioned here, and even if this inscription is NOT a forgery, that still doesn't clinch it that the Yaaqob, Yoseph, and Yeshua mentioned in the inscription are 100% to be identified with the characters mentioned in the New Testament. A devout believer would say that the other ossuary mentioned -- the one that supposedly held Jesus' bones -- CAN'T be kosher because Jesus (supposedly) came back from the dead and ascended into Heaven. A mythicist might suggest that it's not the same Jesus, as with this James Ossuary 'Yeshua'. The fact is, this artifact is suspect specifically because it was on the antiquities market, not having been discovered 'in situ', and this is just the sort of spectacular find that is bound to impress the gullible and potentially lead to a big payday for its seller. There are other reasons to be skeptical of the idea that Jesus ever existed, reasons which I, as an admitted partisan of this debate, acknowledge to be unconvincing to the majority of scholars who've made a career of studying the so-called 'Historical Jesus'. One thing that makes my eyebrow tilt upwards is that I've never heard any record of an Early Church Father citing a pagan or Jew or Heretic pooh-poohing the very idea of Jesus having Ascended due to what might well have been common knowledge -- assuming there WAS a historical Jesus -- that these ossuaries existed, holding the bones of James/Yaaqob on the one hand, and the very bones of Jesus Christ Himself in the other one. And no Church Father ever countered such a contention from naysaying pagans or Jews or heretics by pointing out the infamous Shroud of Turin as evidence that a holy Light zapped the image of Christ's crucified revivifying Body onto it, etc. The medieval world became notorious for trafficking in religious Relics -- they being items that drew pilgrims/tourists to the major cathedrals and churches, and helped generate money -- and the present world has an equally notorious penchant for fakery in the antiquities market, because the bottom line is MONEY. If Jesus ever really existed, and if he had been as famous in his day as the gospel stories would lead us to believe he was, then it seems mighty odd to me that when the Roman legions devastated the region during the 66-to-73 war they somehow neglected to seek out and destroy every last vestige of the Davidic Bloodline that posed a messianic threat to their power -- and I would include artifacts such as these ossuaries, assuming the names inscribed on them are legit and represent members of the lineage from King David.

[@winifredthompson465]

THE Mother of Jesus had other children half brothers and sisters to Jesus, Jesus was born of God to a vjrgin chosen by God to bring his lamb of God Into the world to be our Saviour. THE SACRIFICAL LAMB OF GOD, WHO DIED ON PASSOVER FOR OUR SINS. Mary had other children, James the Just mentioned in the New Testament, also Jude, who wrote the book of Jude in the New Testament. He also had sisters, Mary was married to Joseph, her husband, contrary to Roman Catholic Teachings, that have twisted the Holy Scriptures for their own ends. Mary's sister was also at the cross with her, if you read careful the gospels. Both James the Just and Jude, suffered Martyrdom. THEY were problems buried in the family tomb. NOW the throne of King David is a different scenario, That throne was no longer in Israel, it came to Ireland in 686BC, along with the Prophet Jeraminah a d his scribe Barack, this is according to the ancient annuals of Ireland. The last of the line of King David, the young princesses that escaped with Jeraminah, the Princess Teapatti married the High King of Irelands Son, and reigned at Tara, The ancient word for Torah. This according to scripture was overthrown 3 times It went to Scoon I n Scotland by KING Fergus, then 1296 Edward 1st Longshanks, took the ancient throne to Westminster Abbey and built the Ckronation chair over it. Queen Elizabeth is the custodian QUEEN for the throne of King David, CHRISTS THRONE, THAT MUST NEVER END, UNTIL CHRIST HIMSELF C,AIMS HIS THRONE AND THE SHEPHERDS STONE, now resident in Edinburgh Castle. The prophet Jeraminah is said to be buried according to Google on Devlish Island, between Ballinmallard and Enniskillen. This is why the Romans would have had nothing at all to do with this ancient throne. GODS THRONE. winifred Thompson. Northern Ireland.

[@patricktilton5377]

@@winifredthompson465 You've been reading the pseudo-historical pamphlets published by offshoots from the Worldwide Church of God, promulgated by Herbert W. Armstrong, a man who had a secret penchant for raping his own daughter whom he brought along with him on his many trips. He and his son, Garner Ted Armstrong, had a falling-out over this child molestation issue -- all of which was eventually exposed back in the '80s. When the WCOG underwent a change in direction following HWA's death, some of his most sycophantic followers went on to form offshoots like the Philadelphia COG, trying to perpetuate HWA's dogmas and doctrines -- especially his British-Israelite interpretation of the Bible and history, which he plagiarized from J. H. Allen's 1902 book JUDAH'S SCEPTRE AND JOSEPH'S BIRTHRIGHT. HWA's book about the U.S.A. and Britain in prophecy -- recapped in his MYSTERY OF THE AGES -- was stolen completely from Allen's work, with not even the slightest indication that he owed 99% of his 'material' to the work of that guy, his own plagiarized content giving his gullible readers the false impression that he, Herbert Armstrong, had been chosen by God to be an End-Times 'Elijah' preparing the way for the 2nd Coming, and specifically shown the 'Truths' about Jeremiah & Baruch escorting Tea Tephi (allegedly the daughter of Zedekiah) to Ireland along with Jacob's Pillar (which he'd used as a pillow when he dreamed of the Ladder), and all that dubious stuff. It's clear, Winifred, that you've been exposed to the dogmas of the Armstrong 'church'/cult, which fascinated me back in the '80s -- I used to order their free literature (and still have all that stuff, including several years' worth of PLAIN TRUTH magazines from then), which I took with more than a grain of salt. You owe it to yourself to become aware of and familiar with critical examinations of the claims made in that material, as well as critical works by secular scholars who read the Bible from a logical perspective. You've probably never examined the Documentary Hypothesis, which explains how the Hebrew Bible came to be. You've probably been raised to believe in the doctrines of one of these Armstrongian offshoot churches, because you parrot their teachings. There's a certain allure to them, I'll admit, though I never was able to swallow it. You'll be doing yourself a service, though, if you do a deep-dive study of these doctrines, where they come from, the types of people who still cling to them nowadays, as well as other studies of the origins of the Hebrew society and religion. I'm not gonna tell you what to think, but I daresay that there are all sorts of things you haven't read yet in order to really have an informed opinion. You're parroting the stuff preached by a church that broke away from the WCOG after they changed their doctrines following the death of HWA, who had a stranglehold on that WCOG until his death. What kind of man was he? Among other things, he was a pedophile who raped his own daughter repeatedly while on trips away from home. That's the major reason his son, Garner Ted Armstrong, was "dis-fellowshipped" despite having been groomed to take over from his dad: he confronted HWA over this despicable private sex-abuse of his sister by their father. Google it. It's out there. Learn the ugly truth about the most high-profile proponent of this plagiarized view of Bible History in the 20th Century, regarding the Stone of Destiny, Zedekiah's daughter, Jeremiah, etc.

[@winifredthompson465]

@@patricktilton5377 Dear Patrick, I have read the K.J.V. Bible many times from cover to cover, I will defend the bible, the book of Genesis, states Jacobs pillow stone, or the Shepherds Stone. This was underneath the Coronation Chair, from 1296 to 1996, 700 years. The ancient annuals of Ireland state a marriage took place, between the Princess Teapatti and the High King of Ireland that reigned at Royal Tara. This would have been written away back in BC686 etc., The prophet Jeraminah is buried between Inniskillen and Ballinmallard at Develish Ireland. To be buried here, he had to come here, also Princess Scotia her grave is outside Cork. The Book of Jeraminah in the bible states, the Throne of David Overthrown 3 times, first in Ireland, 2nd Scotland, 3rd Westminster Abbey. This is not a person talking this is written in the Holy Scripture. THE THRONE OF DAVID MUST EXIST UNTIL CHRIST THE TRUE KING, THE RIGHEOUS KING RETURNS TO CLAIM HIS THRONE. THE ALMIGHTY GOD OF HEAVEN CANNOT LIE, THIS IS HIS STATEMENT THAT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A DECENDANT OF KING DAVID TO,SIT ON THAT THRONE TILL CHRIST RETURNS. THIS IS WRITTEN IN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES. I BELIEVE THE HOLY SCRIPTURES. I have not read what that an has written, I know nothing about him. I send you God's Blessings. Winifred Thompson. Northern Ireland.

[@patricktilton5377]

@@winifredthompson465 How can you have read the KJV of the Bible so many times yet you still don't realize that there is no prophet named "Jeraminah" anywhere in it? The guy you're referring to is named Jeremiah -- not Jeraminah. As for those 3 "overturns" you cite, they aren't in the book of Jeremiah, they're in the book of Ezekiel (21:27 = verse 32 in the Hebrew) : "I will overturn, overturn, overturn it, and it shall be no more, until he come, whose right it is, and I will give it him." The word the KJV translates as "overturn" is, in the Hebrew, `aWaH, which is better translated as "a ruin" because it is not the verb in that sentence. Thus, a better translation would be: "I shall make it a ruin, a Ruin, a RUIN, and it shall be (i.e. it shall exist) no more, until..." etc. The word "ruin" is used three times as a way of emphasizing it, of hammering it in to the man (Ezekiel) hearing this divine rant. It's like when crazy Chief Inspector Dreyfus tells the bumbling Inspector Clouseau, "I will kill you -- kill, Kill, KILL!!!" -- it doesn't mean he's going to kill him, then bring him back to life, then kill him a second time, then bring him back to life a second time, then kill him a third and final time! It's a figure of speech wherein God is saying -- through the mouth of his prophet -- that He is going to make the Davidic kingship (symbolized by the Diadem, his Crown -- and NOT his Throne) "a RUIN a RUIN a RUIN!!!" Herbert W. Armstrong and his ilk pretend that the verse MEANS that it -- i.e. the Throne -- will no more be overturned, until... etc. But that's not what the Hebrew text means. The word `aWaH does not mean that it -- the Diadem/Crown worn by the wicked prince of Israel, mentioned just before -- is the Throne (or the 'pillow' stone presumably associated with it) or that it is to be TRANSFERRED or RELOCATED. And even if it WERE -- which it isn't -- the proponents of this British-Israel doctrine claim that the 3 "overturns" were 1) from Jerusalem to Ireland; 2) from Ireland to Scotland (Scone); and 3) from Scotland to London (the Coronation chair in Westminster Cathedral) . . . only, the Stone of Scone is now back in Scotland, in Edinburgh Castle, where I myself saw it when I was a tourist there! If that Stone of Destiny was to be no more overturned (as the doctrine insisted), then it should have been impossible for it to have been removed from Westminster in London and transported back to Scotland -- that would make a 4th "overturn"!!! Those "ancient annals" of Ireland you're referring to -- which guys like Armstrong claimed supported this zany theory -- DO NOT EXIST. It is all-too-common for proponents of the British-Israel theory to confuse the medieval 'history' called the Scotichronicon -- a history of SCOTLAND written in Latin -- with these supposed IRISH annals, whereby they confuse the EGYPTIAN princess named "Scota" (mentioned in the Scotichronicon) with this Tea Tephi who was presumed to have been the daughter of King Zedekiah, the last king of Judah. There's actual circumstantial evidence that this Princess Scota may have existed -- and from whom the Scots got their name, according to tradition. But to claim that she was an Israelite, a literal Jewish Princess, rather than the Egyptian the Scotichronicon says she was, is unwarranted. Winifred, you owe it to yourself to read more than the KJV and the obtuse pamphlets that have put this dubious alternate-history into your head. Do yourself a favor and research the sources of the 'information' you've embraced so wholeheartedly. Prepare to be disillusioned.

[@winifredthompson465]

@@patricktilton5377 I can spell, when you come to almost 80, your eyesight falters, also using a very bad stylus with a broken tip, putting in different letters. YOU trolls need to grow up, there is more going on in this world, than a stupid error in spelling. At least you knew who I was speaking off P.S. Did not King Solomon marry the daughter of an Egyptian Pharaoh. . Winifred Thompson. Northern Ireland,

[@StefanMusicHuntley]

So basically, if that bone exists, could Jesus be resurrected? Wouldn't that be something, or at least a great movie idea, that Jesus would walk the earth again. Right before the end of the world. LOL

[@sjappiyah4071]

The ossuary does not prove Jesus ressurected in the slightest (not sure if you’re being sarcastic) It’s simply archeological evidence to support the historical evidence of Jame’s existence

[@StefanMusicHuntley]

@@sjappiyah4071 I was actually referring to the genetic part, if we had the bones of "Jesus", You are correct, these bones would be of James. We would at least have a better idea of what half of Jesus' genes might look like. Maybe? I'm have a hypothesis he was half Jew, half Nabataean.

[@sjappiyah4071]

@@StefanMusicHuntley Ahhh ok , sorry I read your comment wrong . And that’s an interesting hypothesis, if I may ask what lead you to suspect that ?

[@StefanMusicHuntley]

@@sjappiyah4071 basically I hypothesize Joseph of Arimathea, was a Nabataean, an Arab, not a Jew, and was Jesus's actually biological father.

[@sjappiyah4071]

@@StefanMusicHuntley Ahhh , interesting.

[@Ghost_bros]

No one knows anything

[@carmenrizzo6408]

You don't "KNOW"