The KATZBALGER: A "Pointless" Sword for Gigachads of History...

[@Skallagrim]

One thing I forgot to mention: The ricasso (blunt section above the guard). On a large two-handed sword a ricasso is useful for holding on to, for a wider grip with more control. That's obviously not needed here. So why is it there? My guess is to improve the balance a little bit. Also you can block and parry with it without risking any damage, unlike the edge. Check out the video description by the way (under "show more"). I've linked some relevant videos you might like.

[@morrigankasa570]

Is there a Sword that is similar to a Modern Meat Cleaver designed to hack through Bones & Joints?

[@BigDogBandit]

I wonder if it's for stiffness/sturdiness

[@danielhurst8863]

To provide two handed leverage when pushing pikes. It's not a weapon intended for one on one combat, it's a specialized tool to help break into a pike formation, when there is very little room to maneuver

[@joeojeda4651]

Honestly this made think of a machete but heavier, for flesh. Maybe rather than a specialized weapon, it more a tool than a weapon? Like military knives or e-tools? For the life of me I can't figure what those uses would be since I know nothing about landsneckt logistics or tactics.

[@kazzTrismus]

voluminous clothing obscures the body lines...glancing quickly to observe opportunities eventually degenerates into wildly hacking and slashing at anything coloured correctly/matching a targets clothing

[@joshbingham212]

It’s so funny to think of a historical arms expert analyzing the edge geometry and possible applications of a rounded blade shape when it’s a possibility that back in it’s time some German guy was like “dudes look, my sword looks like a wang hahaha” and all his buddies thought it was hilarious and copied him

[@Skallagrim]

Sillier things have happened in history, so I wouldn't be surprised.

[@Fetguf]

Was it in the same time as the codpiece?

[@nipplecream3099]

@@Fetguf yes.

[@enricobaschenis4257]

@@Fetguf Ah yes, the landsknecht. The terrifyingly effective military unit, a servant of the land, one who kills and dies for his home and kingdom. Also coloquially known as the penis patrol.

[@Resomius]

That... Is the most male thing a Chad of Landsknecht could have done... I will take this as Headcanon from now on.

[@nicccandussi865]

It's been three months since upload but in case anyone still wonders what's written on the sword at 03:11, it says: "Gambled away my money" in older German spelling and syntax - literally "My money gambled away". Have a good one!

[@archsys307]

well for every 1.1 men who gambled their money away there’s 0.9 men who made it big… depending on how outrageous vigs were back then

[@pard2397]

Greetings from Germany. Use it more like an axe with less moving of the wrist. It´s not meant to be technical. Just be brutal and swing your arms as fast and hard as you can. Thats pretty much the definition of "balgen". If you look at cats you can see that they rapidly strike the same spot over and over again. Using it like this means having a point is pointless.

[@mikelazure7462]

The observation of how cat's simply do that 'paw hammer' thing seems pretty relevant to the name and the way to use the sword - in the pike formations Skall showed images of 'hammer blows' seem like they would be the most repeated/common kind of cut simply because the pikes force a limited range of movement. Nice observation Pard. (I also liked the playfulness of "having a point is pointless.")

[@Khobotov]

Was about to say the same thing. German names tend to have the clue in it.

[@jellysquiddles3194]

I also find the cultural context / translation of the sword so misrepresented. I don't get where translators think anything of cats fur or any of that nonsense - since when does a SWORD have FUR in the name?! My first image was not of "it is a sword" but rather "I am the KATZBALGER!", clearly pointing to the way you fight using the sword. Better translation would be "Brawl-Like-A-Cat-er". With 'brawling' being quite literal - as in "punching with your fists" - hammer grip + movement of the attacks. A sword clearly made for cutting and nothing else, used with fast repeated similiar movements (as in ACTUALLY cutting something like you would with a knife). Thus having no space for long massive slashes but rather small range tiny cutting movements (none going through the bones) leaving multiple deep wounds. Also speaking about literal translation, somehow these morons don't understand that it doesn't come from "balg" the noun (www.dict.cc/german-english/Balg.html) but the verb (www.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/balgen.html). A 'balger' is someone who is "balging around", it refers to the scuffles/brawls that bratty children have, hence the most used noun of "Balg" in german is of a bratty child. Seriously at anyone point I expect mainstream to think that Katana actually comes from a 'cat' named 'anna', since japanese really love cats.

[@Zminte]

@@jellysquiddles3194 nothing to do with fur. Skalla expalins it quite well.

[@RambleOn07]

@@jellysquiddles3194 Anna was the coolest cat you ever did see

[@brianshea2515]

The shape of the blade reminds me of the swords that came with LEGO knights in the late 70s to mid 80s. They didn't get the S shaped crossguard unfortunately.

[@kaichi23]

Was wondering if anyone else noticed that, its been distracting me lol

[@quest4adventure495]

They still used those into the early 90s

[@landoncube769]

They used them into the early 2000s even. I had a Lego set with some in like 2007-8

[@SirPano85]

Ouch! I just wrote a similar comment....

[@SxSxG666]

Haha now I know why I realized the shape :)

[@juancholo7502]

A guy I am acquainted with, who is a part of a Landsknecht reenactment group, talked about wearing his Katzbalger the way it is usually depicted & said it is usually a bit awkward to draw except when he is holding a pike. He found in mock battles it was easy to draw the Katzbalger with his off hand to parry attacks while maintaining position & holding his pike with his main hand. Given that most of the time a landsknecht & 499 of his closest friends are going to be in formation holding pikes & not able to move as well, being able to draw with your off hand & parry attacks from the open side would be really useful. He also said that he confirmed through trial & error that the sharp rounded tip didn't get hung up on the fancy garb that he would wear. Of course I can also see them saying "look guys, I have a sword wang!"

[@Azuris190]

This Comment should be placed above, at it has some good observations in it.

[@KT-pv3kl]

The sword was meant to be used once you broke into the Pike formations. Those formations were densely packed with lightly armored bodies most of them armed with shorter poleams to attack the enemy pike formation and not suited against an enemy directly inside their formation. Once inside a handful of Doppelsöldners would draw their katzbalers and hack at everything around them in what is essentially grappling distance. By causing havoc in the midst of the enemy formation it made it easyer for the other engaged pike formation to break up and rout them in short order whereas a normal "geschiebe" or Engagement between 2 evenly matched pike formations could take hours if both sides had intact formations and morale. The entire idea of the Doppelsöldner was to pay experienced soldiers that had earned the right to fight in the back of the formation to protect officers and the flag twice as much money to take on the extremely dangerous task of breaking from the protection of their own formation and hew bloody paths trough the flanks of enemy formations with nothing but their armor, skill and faith in god protecting them from hundreds of enemies.

[@SwissBadger]

But doppelsöldner most of the time used bidenhänder

[@definelogic4803]

@@SwissBadger he is saying they dropped these and went to their side arm when in the close packed formations

[@SwissBadger]

@@definelogic4803 where?

[@Cherb123456]

Thanks!

[@Belphegorite]

@@SwissBadger 3rd sentence.

[@saeseetiin5585]

Have you considered that maybe the sword is named as such, because it was designed for use against cats? I do seem to remember a certain puss in a pair of boots mentioned in an entirely historically accurate tale about an ogre. A suitable weapon to engage such an enemy would be ideal.

[@TheInsomniaddict]

I believe such a feline prefers more dexterous weapons like the foil. As such, a heavy cutting weapon will generally lose in a duel versus a lighter, faster weapon.

[@maycontainnuts3127]

maybe it was used by cats lmao

[@JaggedVeil163]

@@maycontainnuts3127 Cats around the world: I have daggers in my feet. Cats in Germany: Hehe, cat sword

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Honestly, with how few shits landsnechts gave, I wouldn't even be surprised if someone had a sword forged, entirely for use against cats, because the dude hated cats.

[@Xterminate13]

No, we cats used these weapons as a last resort, our core muscles perfect for delivering blindingly fast cuts with such swords! Why stab with anything other than the spears?

[@viraltang]

As someone writing a story about fantasy knights who are blatantly inspired by these absolute units (and one of my personal favorite fighting forces in history) this is SUPER relevant to me. Thank you I stumbled on your channel by accident but I am incredibly glad I did your videos are super informative. Even for someone who uses them as for references for fantastical and romantic works.

[@leone.6190]

Yeah, it refers to how cats will just throw hands at each other and how in close Hand to Hand combat, Landsknechte will just hack and hew through the tight pike formations.

[@Interrobang212]

"cat-fight"

[@Lurklen]

That actually makes sense. I think the fights with these would be a lot of batting things aside back and forth until you actually got someone, but it would look pretty hectic and unskilled. Also like a cat fight, there'd be an explosion of furious motion, and then these pauses while you moved through the formation.

[@leone.6190]

@@Lurklen exactly. That is also how I imagine it looking like.

[@joshuamcdowell1460]

Including hacking and thrusting at things that maybe they shouldn't. My guess is that the tips got damaged by use and abuse, archeologists found rounded tipped rusty sword fossils and assumed they were built that way.

[@Lurklen]

@@joshuamcdowell1460 It's possible, but I feel like given the amount of scrutiny these kinds of finds go under, they'd likely know there had been damage, especially enough to completely round the tips. If it was just the replicas, like that infamous Norse sword that was remade with the scabbard throat around the hilt, then I'd agree, but I think there's more than a few samples like this. That said, there's also a great many samples with a point, and a longer blade, a replica of which I own, so maybe you're right.

[@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei]

And I just found a hint in the "Digitales Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache" (Digital dictionary of the German language) that the word "Katzbalg" was an already existing word in the 15th century with the meaning "quarrel/brawl" refering to fighting cats. So they probably named the sword after this word, like you could maybe call a weapon for brawling just "brawler".

[@Khornecussion]

" Haha, they look kinda like cats swatting at each other when they swing to smash the pikes - waitaminute. "

[@hamasmillitant1]

also possible, but if your making a leather only scabard you wouldn't see the fur because its on the inside to stop blade cutting the leather & also to hold oil and clean of blade so it dosent rust as easily my leather only scabbards look like a wooden ones till u pick them up without a sword/knife in it and they bend like a towel

[@colbyboucher6391]

Sometimes I suspect that if you went back and asked one of these mercenaries why they named these swords katzbalger, you'd get equally mixed answers. There's so many weird terms with multiple possible origins, and sometimes I think they spread because they fit in all sorts of ways regardless of what the first person to call it that was thinking.

[@IdentityCrisis1581]

You can tell they were made for crowded close quarter battle. I wonder how many were made from reground great sword blades that were broken. I would imagine a few cheaper ones may have been as opposed to one forged that way. Not all mercenaries could afford good weapons so if they had a broken blade from a previous sword. I would think they would try to maintain some use from it.

[@anormalrat]

I wonder if that was the reason for the rounded points, easier to grind a round point on a broken sword than reprofile the whole blade

[@IdentityCrisis1581]

@@anormalrat yeah I was thinking that too when I was thinking about repurposed broken blades. I don't doubt some were forged that way. But at least some had to be homemade. Poor mercenaries who couldn't afford to throw away a piece of broken blade they could still use as a shorter sword. So they would put a good enough point with what ever hand stones they had and shorten the handle. Then keep using it. I would if I had a piece of broken sword long enough to reuse as a shorter sword. So makes sense they would have too.

[@shaynecarter-murray3127]

I feel like you're on to something, that was my first thought. Even if it wasn't common, it is possible that the early Ines were just that, and then emulated by smiths in an effort to produce decent blades quickly. Not having to fool with distal taper and refining a point qould save a not insignificant bit of time when making a sword.

[@leadpaintchips9461]

That..... makes a lot of sense, especially since they had to fund their own armaments. Pick up a broken great sword, have someone grind it down instead of having to buy a whole new weapon. Or blacksmiths repurposing the broken bits that are brought in instead of trying to putz with the material.

[@IdentityCrisis1581]

@@leadpaintchips9461 yeah. They weren't a "throw away" society like ours. They tried to reuse anything they could get some use out of. They repaired things a lot more than we do today. I would imagine a poor mercenary would be buying repaired and refurbished armaments to begin with because it would cost less than commissioning a new set. They probably bought things a piece at a time.

[@slavaukraine716]

Thanks for the good video. Been supporting the channel a long time and yet I never heard of this sword!

[@tcpieschke]

@ 8:17 All I could think was "more cut for your coin" instead of "bang for your buck" lol. Another superb video btw!

[@filmbuiltyouth]

The sword would have been worn on the "natural waist" not on the hips. You mentioned you're wearing it as high as you can, but if you look at the artwork, the actual pictures show the sword a good 5-6 inches higher than where you're hanging it, significantly changing how the sword swings/moves. The hosen and belts were just worn higher.

[@frank_from_franconia8751]

Exactly. Also the scabbard was mostly fixed right on the weapon belt. By this, one could tighten the scabbard with the leather straps to attach it, to the point where your sword isn't slipping out of the sheath anymore.

[@patriciusvunkempen102]

indeed, but there is a big variety some actualy had pretty low cut pants but many had very high cut pants

[@erice5372]

I'm a SCA/Dag/Belegarth guy here. You got my sub from mention the sweet spots, especially in regards to follow up shots, etc. You speak with actual swordfighting knowledge IN ADDITION to your knowledge in metallurgy.

[@b.h.abbott-motley2427]

Francesco Patrizi provided fascinating commentary on the short katzbalger in his 1595 work in a section covering wearing swords in general. While he praised the katzbalger's convenience for wearing & using in a tight press, he had three criticisms: balance too close to the hand making for weaker cuts, wearing with the point unsheathed causing injury to people behind, and lack of good thrusting tip. (The last two criticisms seem somewhat contradictory. The second shows the rounded points could still stab, but I guess not well enough. They'd be useless against most any armor or possibly even thick clothing.) "It is not long since they introduced very long swords, which I don't know why, were called Frantopini, designed to wound first without danger. But they came to an issue opposite to their design, because they could not be unsheathed due to their length. However, they resolved to tote them unsheathed under the arm. But as it was uncomfortable, in the end they stopped using them. It is not less laughable the length of the swords used by the Swiss, in guarding princes, as well as in war. Due to their length, and weight, come to be too heavy to be handled with one hand, they lengthen the handle, for one hand and a half, to put both of them on it. And to be able to unsheathe them, they leave them hanging from long pendulums from the belt. And because of its waving and rocking, they are obliged to always put their left hand on it, to avoid it from shaking and hitting the legs of anyone close. And with the other hand they hold the halberds, or the pike on the shoulder. And they don't realize that both hands are busy, or that while putting both of them on the pike, or the halberd for necessity, the sword will surely swing from those pendulums, impeding themselves and the ones close to the side or behind. And getting tight in close combat it (note: the sword) becomes totally useless. In wide space was better the spadone that was used by their forlorn hope. Because they came out from the ordinance and once large spread they had easiness to swing them. In which way spadone is quite of any help (note: or usable with easiness). The Italian and Spaniard infantry men toted the sword with pendulums too. And not to make it swing, they have found a particular piece of iron (Note: literally "iron"), on the really short pendulums, or even without it, which many times in private matters, catching in the hilts, has impeded the unsheathing. And many left wounded, and dead. So much better have decided to do the Landsknechten. They tote a very short sword, because while resting tight inside their battalions, the don't impede each other. And because it has proved much worth while getting tighter in close combat. But even though it has three not little issues. One is that they put so many guards for the hand all around the hilt that it is too light when hitting. And so it does wound lightly. The other is that, toting it fastened to the belt without pendulums, from the half behind they carried it even naked (Note: with no sheath). So that many times has happened that, inside the thicks, the fellow behind was stabbed by the sword of the one before him. The third issue was that they carry it without the tip for a crazy belief that the valuable man doesn't hit with thrust. But they have no 'cunning nor courage, of what importance are they against the enemy'." Based on this & other sources, choosing a military sidearm involved tradeoffs. A longsword like the Swiss favored granted advantages when there was the space to wield it, but was a challenge to wear & became unusable in a tight press. The reasonably long (blade of about a yard) single-handed swords the Spanish, Italian, & English infantry favored had similar issues, though they were presumably somewhat more comfortable to wear & wield in one hand. The katzbalger was easier to wear & fight with when things got very close, but had some design issues & like all shorter swords wasn't as good when there was more space to fight. It's interesting how different militaries opted for different sidearm swords with these tradeoffs in mind. In his 1590 work, Sir John Smythe complained about the length of military swords making them hard to draw & recommended 27-36 inches, leaning toward the lower end. But in his 1594 treatise he settled on 36in blades, as many other late-16th-century English military writers did.

[@dreadsleeper]

By chance do you happen to know the name of the work?

[@b.h.abbott-motley2427]

@@dreadsleeper De paralleli militati di Francesco Patrizi. Parte II. Della militia riformata nella quale s’aprono, I modi, e l’ordinanze varie degli Antichi. Accomodate a nostri fuochi Per potere secondo la vera arte di guerra, con pochi vincere in battaglia la gran moltitudine de Turchi E di varie figure militari adorna.

[@kevinfogle7929]

Thank you!

[@Lurklen]

Ah, back when you had to write a whole book to throw down your tier list on the ways to carry swords. I'm having trouble interpreting the last bit. Is he saying, "These crazy guys just think thrusting isn't manly, but they're dumb cowards so who cares?" Or is he quoting them as saying *points* have no cunning or courage, so what good are they? I like how earlier he's like, "These idiots are making their swords too damn long and hanging them weird because of it, and now they're holding polearms, and they can't hold the stupid pendulum hung swords still when they fight with the polearms anyways, and nobody is telling them they look like clowns, but they do, and we all know it." The sass is great, and shows things never really change.

[@b.h.abbott-motley2427]

@@Lurklen I'm not sure about that last bit; I think it's just a longwinded way of saying it's bad not to have a tip suited for thrusting & not to thrust for cultural reasons. I really wonder what a longsword-loving Swiss soldier would have said in return. The Swiss retained the reputation for using long-handled swords into the middle of the 17th century if not later. In his 1642 treatise against the pike, Donald Lupton criticized the Swiss two-handed sword in passing. I don't know of a Swiss account of why they wore longswords, & sometimes big longswords, but I'm sure they had their reasons & of course they were some of the most successful soldiers around.

[@Dylan-et9yi]

I dont watch a lot of your videos, but these I love. Historical history of the sword, how its used, and demonstration in one video. great

[@petriew2018]

as for the carry position it actually kind of makes sense when it's being carried by a formation of massed pikemen. When it's hanging horizontally at your hip it's not getting in the space of the guy next to you. if it's not secured that tightly it can be knocked back and forth without much risk of being bent in the scabbard, but it's still easily drawn in tight quarters if your primary weapon breaks. personally as a side arm for a pikeman i think it's a pretty smart design. Small enough to be carried as a sidearm, well designed to do a lot of damage in tight spaces. No real finesse, but it's not meant for 'civilized gentleman' anyway, right?

[@brianknezevich9894]

This is one of the best, most honest reviews I've seen, regardless of channel. Good historical content, good feedback, good footage. The blade would look somehow better to me just a couple inches longer. I don't really mind the lack of dedicated point, a rounded edge can be quite effective when it passes across a target, although that's more of a slice... Codpieces: Personal protection for landsknechts!

[@indoorkite651]

actually it's probably too long. like way too long, who needs any more than 3 inches? i mean seriously 5 inches is way too much, and this giant thing? no sireeeeee. 2 inches will do. all people say is more inches would be better, but the truth is that 1 inch will do the job for just about anyone.

[@alsandar2611]

Well, there is this chocolate called "Katzenzungen" (cat tounges) which are small and really rounded on each end. This sword is short, and has a really rounded tip, just like a cats tounge. The name is much easier to explain if you say it looks like a cats tounge (Katz) and you use it to fight (balger).

[@Lurklen]

Interesting, something as simple as that makes sense. Someone else posted that using them looked like cats fighting too, kind of batting about at the pikes in the way, like a cat.

[@mgk2020]

I think you've got it.

[@javierpatag3609]

In France, there are cookies/pastries known as Langues de Chat of the shape you describe. In the Philippines by way of historical Spanish influence, there is a similar cookie called Lengua de Gato of the same shape. Both Lagues de Chat and Lengua de Gato mean "tongue of a cat". This, I think, supports your hypothesis of the cat's tongue name being a reference to the shape.

[@Schmidt54]

Balg also means "pelt" or "hide", so maybe Katzbalger does not (only) refer to cats engaging in melee combat but also metaphorically for "skinning the cat". I personally think that the catfight does make more sense tho.

[@kurtwagner4663]

@@Schmidt54 i think this one makes more sense. I mean they used dog skin too for putting ink on the book presses because it doesn't have pores, so I think Katzenbalg as another word for cat hide makes more sense.

[@miyama8936]

The cup over their private parts was mostly a fashion thing around that time and usually made out of fabric, but some had this also included in their armor as actual protection made out of steel.

[@SxSxG666]

Even fabric prevents the pummel to dangle against your private parts.

[@Interrobang212]

I got my hands on a Katzbalger at a tatami mat cutting party. The cuts felt very good, and the handling felt good. Perhaps this was an issue with the specific sword you got, and not the katzbalger as an archetype? I think your assessment is fair though, especially with wearability concerns. This was a fun video Skal, and I liked the brief intro to Landsknecht baked in.

[@motocross_cooper]

A blade optimized for cutting/ chopping, I can see a VERY useful in a role of moving past or trying disable Pikes. (i.e. it would be good or better than a tapered blade for hacking at and chopping into or deflecting and pushing aside Pikes)

[@lookingforcraft6319]

What comes to mind as to why they'd go with a rounded edge over a pointed one is the scenarios they would be expected to use the blade in. The artwork you use as a reference for the Landsknecht was basically a mosh pit of men in lots of fancy cloth with pikes and blades vs another mosh pit. If you were the dude in the 2nd or 3rd man back, finesse is not likely to be a priority, getting a cut in at all is more beneficial than a perfect cut, and if you lost your blade you were NOT getting it back until the fight is over. I think the rounded point prevents the blade from being caught on the cloth armor, the main type you would fight against, and allows for chops to hit wherever without as much a need for accuracy. A pointed blade simply by being a point allows for it to catch on anything and in a chaotic mess like that. Both on the enemy side of things as well as your own and thats a really bad thing to have to worry about I'd imagine.

[@littlekong7685]

It would also prevent the men from attempting thrusts. I could see in that scenario thrusts almost guaranteeing you lose your weapon when everything shifts sideways, or are bashed to bits while you drew back and aimed. If you WANT the men to just slash and hack like wildmen, then a double edged, pointless sword would do the job nicely. And being so short, it lets them swing without much risk of getting stopped by an errant shaft. The forced hammer grip supports this, less finesse, more power and structure, and informs your strike patterns.

[@leoprzytuac3660]

That sounds pretty logical. So, the Katzbalger would be a sword made for absolute chaos, then. That's kinda cool.

[@bluegent7]

I think you and @Littlekong is onto something, kind of how my own thoughts go. Short, sturdy, rounded - and sharp - tip, seem good in beating pikes away, not getting caught on them or enemies clothes or skin - as in the face - when slashing side to side, all in a chaotic situation when speed is preferred above precision.

[@wodensblot]

​@@leoprzytuac3660 I imagine the blunter ended ones were essentially just medieval machetes, no finesse just pure chopping power

[@leoprzytuac3660]

@@wodensblot It would fit the over the top chad personality of the landsknecht

[@paulbrooks4395]

I love these deep dive analysis vids. Basically any deep dive, even fictional, or human v golem they show so much thought and research.

[@superrobotmonkeyhyperteamf3194]

Great video and i agree on your theory about the name ! There is quite a bit evidence for that for example the malefiz-Recht in several sources which was kind of the law for the army and their people. And there it is specifically mentioned that if two Landsknechte/Soldiers had a problem and would go "balgen" to brawl it should be forbidden in most cases. if allowed then only with their swords not with their main weapons like halberds etc. Balgen is also used in other contextes as well and still sometimes used in germany today. There are also german cuts that are called that and are used for all kind of self defense situations. One important point to consider regarding Katzbalger swords. There are several experts that question a lot of the supposedly original pieces in museums as it seems that there is an insane amount of fake 19th century copies of them circulating which would explain quite a few things. Originals where we do know that they are original often have quite a short grip and quite a long blade often with a point. Sometimes a small point but the nonetheless it is one. The shortness of the sword compared to other swords is actually not that rare. Later swords could have similar properties. German Sources from Soldiers and Generals do tell us that certain types of soldiers should have shorter sword ideally cutters since they needed to move a lot and would fall over their swords. Other soldiers such as the Doppelsöldner (mostly in the first Rank) would carry longer bladed swords because they wouldnt move around much. the same for the polearms. So Musketeers Arkebuses and others would have shorter swords. However as always there were exceptions but it does give us some interesting insight. It could also explain why they wore the swords the way they did. Regarding Landsknechts Fashion, there are some sketches from Landsknechte who actually fought themselves in battle and there we see that most of the time the clothing is much less flamboyant than they appear in civilian life. So i guess that for war they pretty much left some of it at their camp and would bind up the rest under their armour. that could explain why theyre often shown without armor since in the late middle ages people already could often afford at least a helmet and a breast plate if we look at contemporary art. Its also sometimes indirectly mentioned in the rules for the camp. Just wanted to give you a few things that i knew because theyre often not translated into english and not well known even in germany. Hope you dont mind. Shame that the Katzbalger isn't as good as i hoped since im still looking for an accurate reproduction. but i guess it would only work if comissioned after one of the originals where we know that it isnt a copy.

[@ArcticGator]

interesting that you say "binding" the sleeves, since wound around the arm and binded would create a lot of layers and make it much harder to cut through, if left unwound it would probably help hide where the persons arms actually were and make it harder to stab them with a spear or pike, since if you disable the enemies arms they wont be able to fight.

[@findlayadams4184]

Thanks!

[@ferric6796]

Here's a speculation: I noticed that in the historical examples (your reproduction notwithstanding) the swords with thrusting points tend to also have more complex fullering, while the rounded examples seem to be more munitions grade. It's possible that like the lenticular cross-section and the parallel edges, the lacking of a point may be for cost-saving in production. After all, if the sword made by the blacksmith's apprentice cuts 85% as well, at 25% the cost, then maybe it's better to skimp and buy a few drinks or lady friends with the rest?

[@ferric6796]

The same goes for the S-Guard: less material than a disc, cup, or shell, means less cost.

[@Kr0noZ]

@@ferric6796 85% performance at 75% cost is more likely, an apprentice almost never made the entire thing and it was still hard work. But that still means savings. As far as the guard is concerned, I don't quite agree though; discs are a lot easier to make than having a crossguard bent into a complex shape, that would actually increase cost overall. I strongly suspect that not all of them were as fancy as the museum piece used for reference on skalls specific model here but still, it was common enough to make it into a lot of period artwork; these were as much a fashion statement as they were a weapon.

[@ferric6796]

@@Kr0noZ You may be right about the guards. On the other hand, Germany had guilds that made sword fittings in bulk, and the s shape could be made by buying an essentially "off the shelf" cross guard for a longsword and bending it to that shape.

[@ollimoore]

In a context where the basic crossguard is still a thing, I’m not sure how this big S guard could be seen as a cost saving measure. Unless there are specific functional requirements that a crossguard cannot fulfil.....but if that’s the case then surely those functional requirements should be seen as the reason for development rather than cost. Regarding the parallel edges, my question would be at this time period and place, what shape is the steel immediately prior to being forged into a blade? If you have bar stock of consistent dimensions and a blade like this could be created just by putting edges on the bar stock then maybe it could be seen as a cost cutting measure, but if it has to be forged out to those dimensions regardless of taper then that seems unlikely. Anyway, if cost was so important that it was a deciding factor in the basic form of the sword design, surely the damn thing would’ve been single edged? I would be very surprised if one of these was cheaper to make than an equivalent quality langesmesser.

[@ferric6796]

@@ollimoore This period did have water-powered hammers and grinding wheels in major manufacturing cities (hence the mass manufacture of off the shelf sword fittings), and as a smith, I can attest to the fact that a straight bar is less labor intensive and requires less finesse than competently executing a nice taper. Incidentally, many of the nicer Katzbalgers which exhibit the complex fullering mentioned earlier also show some taper as well. As to why a cheap sword and not a Messer, vanity may be a plausible explanation: swordmakers guilds had exclusive rights to produce swords, while messers we're made by knifemakers guilds (the legal documents define the difference between the two by their hilt construction, not by blade length, oddly enough). Messers were often seen as peasants' sidearms, so a Landsknecht might insist on having a cheap sword over a nice Messer, like those guys nowadays who buy fake Rolex, Yeezy, or Supreme on AliExpress and Wish. I want to stress however that this is speculation and I have no proof of any of this, just seems plausible enough to me.

[@Eckister]

One of my fencing teachers once told me, that "Katzbalger" refers to the style of fighting with this sword. Basically you actively use one arm to put spear shafts out of the way and whack with the sword arm. It should look kind of like when Matt Easton demonstrates how you strike with a sabre...

[@leichtmeister]

Sounds more like a wild guess since we have zero sources about Landsknecht fencing.

[@Eckister]

@@leichtmeister true. I can only recount what I have been told however.

[@rezzimus5727]

Have you tried any pure vertical chops with this sword? every cut ive seen you do in this video was more horizontal. since the pike squares were ,as you said, very compact. they maybe mainly only chopped down with these swords.which aligns itself with the hammergrip.

[@paulcook6808]

Dude i was just about to forward through your sponsor as I do with all sponsors but campfire caught my eye quick, finally an add that had value lol oh and great videos as well keep em coming.

[@frey7631]

Some say that the design was rounded to prevent injuries to comrades when the formation was pushed very close together and one was pressed against one another. Each tip, be it point or crossguards, could then have drilled into the person next to you or got caught in his clothing.

[@Lurklen]

Yeah, and if it's hung to be flexible, none of them are being pushed into you in the press. You just flip it around to whatever angle is out of the way.

[@varanid9]

@@Lurklen I'd think that, in a press, you would have other worries than adjusting your sidearm.

[@Lurklen]

@@varanid9 Not if it's something you can't do, and it's stuck on someone/something. Suddenly the fact you can't move out of the way of a pike, or that one of your mates has pushed into you and the cross guard of your side arm is jammed up into your armpit, or its point is in someone's gut, is a big bloody problem. Also depends where you are, right? Are you locked in combat, or are you just striking out trying to find an opening, or are you just in tight formation but not actually doing anything yet. In one of those, the half-second it takes to adjust your weapon is doable, and no different from wiping sweat out of your eyes. Unless you mean being in a mechanical press, in which case, yeah you got other things to worry about.

[@varanid9]

@@Lurklen Doesn't a pike require both hands? Those things seem pretty long.

[@Lurklen]

@@varanid9 Of course, but most techniques with the pike, even adjusting its length in your hand require letting go with one hand. If you're curious on seeing a pike in action, though in more of a dueling context, you can look up: "Learn the Art of Combat - Pike Fighting Techniques - Part One" here on youtube which displays just how nimble such a long weapon can be, as well as it's limitations. In formation, in the relatively slower pace of close formation fighting, taking one hand off to make a quick adjustment would not be an uncommon thing. These weapons are comparatively heavy and awkward, but they also aren't like carrying a huge log or something around.

[@MyNameisRevenant]

funny is that Katzbalger is a giant spread butter knife for gigachads. Now picture that on your head and imagine how big their actual swords were.

[@kastriotkrasniqi7118]

they ate big sandwiches

[@MyNameisRevenant]

@@kastriotkrasniqi7118 pretty much yeah, greatest sandwiches of all time.

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

13:22 most Japanese tsuba prior to the edo period were much larger then the uniform size we have now. The way these swords were worn to possibly account for the large round guard is similar to how tachi were worn on samurai (horizontally) from their conception, all the way into the 16th century (although tachi would be worn a bit higher to the belt and had two attachment points)

[@jonajo9757]

If I remember, the tsuba sizes tended to be around 12cm, and would've has guards practically akin to those of early European blades. Though for the tsuba, it'd provide a lot more coverage.

[@Thinkafurr]

XD a great inciteful analysis. I just cant stop thinking of a moment few videos back when you said the landsknecht had big cojones and chuckling. Also terribly sorry I have been meaning to catch back up on our emails on shields. Keep up the work your videos are some of my favourite to listen to daily/weekly!

[@FrankTheThinkTank]

I think it is more for hacking than for stabbing. If it is a german name, if it is for stabbin, it would be called the "Katzstecher" the "Katzschlitzer" or the "Catstabber/Catslasher" because "Katz-Balger" sounds more like, or can/should be translated as "Cat-clubber". German names for individual devices are very precise in describing the purpose.

[@mrtellis2955]

I love the historical views and info! Keep it up Skall

[@tommeakin1732]

Just a tiny little idea to improve your videos: When you're describing blade geometry, it'd be cool if you had some "stock" images pop up on screen which show a cross-section of what you're describing. My personal knowledge has advanced to the point where I don't need this anymore, but very early on it could have been quite helpful for me to see a visual diagram of a blade's approximate cross-section and how that can change along the blade as it tapers.

[@Interrobang212]

I think he's done this before with lines drawn in a box. I agree, its a helpful visual.

[@kinotsu3017]

He usually does, it's possible he just overlooked it in this video or was on a time constraint or working on multiple videos at the same time.

[@henryxu713]

Your content is always as informative as it is entertaining.

[@sanguinoid8919]

Ooooooo I'm so excited you've made a video on this topic!! Ive had a hell of a time trying to find sources about the use of the katzbalger

[@TrollDragomir]

One reason why they might've decided to completely abstain from thrusting with swords is the environment they were fighting in. Their battlefields were tight packed with pikes (tight piked? I'll see myself out), and their big puffy clothes are not just there for fashion. In garments like that, especially if they already have decorative cuts it's really hard to know whether you have successfully stabbed someone, which is definetly useful in a pike mayhem. You can see clothes going in that direction (especially with baggy pants) in the age where rapier was the most prominent type of sword, in western Europe at least. Landsknechts' protective gear was most often suited towards resisting thrusts as well, with breastplates and then lower leg protections being the first they would buy. With opponents dressed that way it might've been more practical to just rely on cuts completely - a cut potentially covers a much larger area than a thrust, increasing the odds that you will his something alive inside that puffy sleeve. Another thing is that while a beefy shortsword with no taper might not be the most effective in killing, it might have been much more important for it to be effective at deflecting pikes. That could also explain the ricasso. As for the name - skinning knives often had a rounded point historically. The reason was that they'd be driven under the skin on the belly, so that the skin could be cut open from inside. Without the point there was much less risk of ripping the intestines and ruining the skin with horrible stench. Well that, and cat skins were actually more popular in middle ages and reneissance as a cheap alternative for lining winter clothes than people realize... Either way, I think the rounded point was developed over time for practical reasons, and the sword only got called cat-skinner because well, it would have looked similar to tools many landsknechts would have used for harvesting cat hides.

[@nuffsaid0]

maybe you're supposed to cut with thus blade at the vert tip? That'd be at the same length as with the more regular type of blade, thus the speed of the blade would be faster, which will help. Cutting much lower is definitely slower.

[@Seelenschmiede]

Yep, in his cutting vids you can see that he (naturally / out of being acustomed to it) tries to cut with the usual percussion point of longswords around the border line of the first and second third of the sword. And with a shorty like a Katzbalger, this makes it underperforming. You have to cut with them way forward at the blade. More to the middle / in front of the middle of the first third of the length.

[@MrBottlecapBill]

Agreed. I remember Thegnthrand doing tip cut tests with saxon/viking style blades which are roundish on the tip and he was able to get impressive penetration and even cut through a bit of mail that way. Ultimately however I feel like the rounded tip is to prevent harming others in your ranks and let's face it, in a pole arms scuffle my first target if I get up close is going to be the arms and hands of the enemy holding their pole arms. Take out one or two guys and you create a hole where your pole arms are going to do some damage.

[@bernhardglitzner4985]

03:10 the inscription on the blade literally means "I gambled away my money" good job Skall

[@_MrPixel_]

Rapier to Katzbagler: "Your pointless" Katzbagler: "39 buried ,0 found"

[@GeneralMcCracker]

Lerman! Thank you for finally talking about Katzbalgers, Skall ;) My two coins for the debate: I'm not sure where I read it, but as far as I remember it was a period source mentioning this. A rounded tip has maybe something to do with wearing the weapon in a tight formation. Often the swords would have been worn without a scabbard, just tucked under the belt or in a sash. Then the points would be very unconvenient for your comrades in formation beside and behind you. A rounded tip might help with that problem.

[@Xtorin_Housecat_Ohern]

i've a Kingston Arms Katzbalger that despite some minor flaws (ornamentation on the grip causing hotspots) is solid even after some fairly abusive test cutting similar to what you've done on this channel in the past.

[@Stop_Gooning]

I'm in the middle of hand-forging my first ever sword. It's shaping up to be a cutlass/wakizashi type thing - 24" blade and about 9" of tang (planning on cutting off some excess later) Metal is expensive right now so it's 90% A36 mild steel and I welded on a couple layers of 7018 for the edge (I'd have used proper hard-facing rods, but they're expensive and this is my first attempt) I'm planing on doing a D guard with a wood (probably walnut) handle

[@tommeakin1732]

These are the "pure" Skall videos I love

[@Skallagrim]

Pure?

[@tommeakin1732]

@@Skallagrim I didn't really think it through before I typed it, but I suppose this kind of "sit down with a replica of a historical weapon, talk a bit about the the history and then your experiences with the replica" video feels like the "core" of the channel and "classic Skall", at least to me XD Please don't interpret this as an attempt to pigeon-hole you either btw lol - it was meant in an endearing way. I appreciate that these aren't the only kinds of videos you do

[@Skallagrim]

@@tommeakin1732 No worries, I was just wondering what you meant.

[@averyhuelsbeck3116]

Maybe do some tests dragging through a piece of thick leather. The extreme grind reminds me of a razor blade, dragging through material easily once its penetrated the surface. Maybe it was designed to gouge, not cleave. Like a cat scratch

[@Thunderfingerz]

I could see a possible use for that weapon in tight pike formations when you consider that this was more intended for maiming the opponent rather than to kill him. Maybe tug people out of formation by gripping the shaft of the pike and then try and chop off as many fingers as possible. Because no fingers no way to hold that thick pole. Plus you will never win a thrusting match against a pole arm with a sword so why bother? Their weapon is just waaaay longer. And despite this being a serious idea and all... the puns are very much intended. You're welcome.

[@jsmxwll]

It reminds me of when I reground a broken tip. I just replaced the point with a radius because making a tip at the point it broke would have required a ton of grinding.

[@timothyvongalii937]

Just a guess: If you’re in formation with pikes, and you’re using left hand as the front hand and right hand as the rear support (as shown in many manuals), being carried horizontal instead of angled or vertical means the left guiding arm is unobstructed by the sword hilt and the handle is already in position to grab and pull straight out with the right hand If the pike suddenly breaks. No need to draw up or grip the scabbard with the other hand to draw (Referencing the Litcheneur position 1 for sword and buckler), pulls out like an overly long combat knife for laying about one’s self.

[@skuo118]

That pommel reminds me of Matt Easton Scholar Gladiatoria video on Shashirs, Scimitar swords with flat disk pommels, which discourages being disarmed and no thrusting at all. Also Lindybeigh had a video interviewing a man dressed as Landsknecht at a Renaissance fair, quite the fashion statement.

[@MikeKnell2884]

I can imagine a landsknecht grabbing a katzbalger to draw it and saying "Excuse me, while I whip this out!"

[@maccurtis730]

He did point out that the sheath is loose making it easier to wipe out for the maidens.

[@danielmcgraw812]

If I were taking a sword to a pike fight, I’d be trying to cut at the hands holding the pikes not so much the body of the soldier holding the pike. Seems like a good design for hacking at hands, you don’t need to kill, you just need to incapacitate.

[@MrHrannsi]

Skallagrímur, a video about medieval mercenaries would be quite interesting. Where did they come from? Where did they get weapons and armour? Many quietions that many scolars of history have tried to answer, but still, I would love to hear your take on the subject.

[@RegretMSTRPWN]

It'd awesome seeing your channel start to get big views again skall!

[@pensmith]

Honestly... the referenced blade for the recreation makes me think of a larger sword that was reground after breaking or losing its tip.. If it was a ricasso, then comparing to the larger swords the mercenary group was known for, it may be a nod to that... especially if it was a broken blade reshaped. Can't hold the museum original, so I can't say if it's a ricasso... but looking at the picture at 16:32, the original looks more like it was just hollow ground. Weight change? Style? Repurpose? Who knows. By all accounts its over all profile isn't too different at a glance from an arming sword, or a viking migration era blade. It just has an S guard. As for why? Well, if it was a classic T shape guard the pointy bits would get in the way poking you and your friends who get packed together as sardines. An S is easy for a smith to make. Making the guard material relatively thick gives its structure resilience. In the packed confines of a pike brawl people might be more likely to swing at each other assuming they can move at all. It seems difficult to imagine anyone doing a by the book thrust without getting bowled over and trampled by friend and foe alike. As for the wearing of it... well if it was intended to be worn with armor then the discomfort could be understood. Another consideration is that the straps could have been pushed to the front only when the blade was needed, with the loops pushed further back when you didn't want to turn your codpiece into a bell.

[@andorbrchr9206]

Loved the video. One of my favorite weapons based on the looks. Please make a second video to test against wood and test the manœuvrability surrounded by poles and maybe holding apple with the second hand? 🤩

[@EarlHare]

I just saw the most ridiculous sword design from a TV show called "See" with Jason Momoa, it's called a whistle sword. I honestly cannot believe how stupid it is to have a sword that makes sound in a world where everyone is blind and relies on sound to fight. I would love a video on this show, the sword and the fight scenes in general because it's so interesting to me to see the result of a thought experiment like this from the perspective of HEMA practitioners.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

Not that rediculous. It is a psychological weapon. By making it make such a loud and distinctive sound it becomes memorable. Also when you hear that sound coming towards you it was sure to make your anus pucker as you know the person with the reputation for using that sword is coming. Just because you know it is coming doesn't mean you can stop it. Now there are definitely downsides to that as well, but I really do believe the idea is to terrorize.

[@MarkizDeCarabas]

Hi Skall, great video as always. And I'm huge fan of katzbalger. Two points from historical perspective: As you carried the sword, it was too low. You actually said it yourself, you don't want to have the belt higher. But the higher waist was part of the style. Their waist was slightly higher than ours. And about why the did not use the messer. You see, the Landsknecht were elite soldiers. Messer is still just a knife, it is a peasant weapon, or tool. Landsknecht considered themselves to be higher in the social hierarchy. So they wouldn't use peasant tool, they were paid better, they were dressed better, they were trained better. That may be one of the reasons why in 16th century messer wasn't used as much as in previous century and later wasn't used at all (only as a training weapon in German manuscripts).

[@thomaswilkinson3241]

A Balg is more like a bubble of skin in colloquial and it relates more to getting into the skin, the balg, in order to hit something vital. In order to get to the Cat, the enemy, you have to get under his skin or armour. The name is meant to describe what one wants to to, namely flay the enemy by getting close and personal.

[@Densoro]

I remember seeing rounded tips like this in Final Fantasy Tactics concept art and being so thrown off. Nice to finally see a deep-dive on these guys! The pommel reminds me of a tulwar, so I was definitely waiting to see if it was hammer grip-mandatory. Also I feel like if you put that S guard on a kriegsmesser, you'd have a full Eurotana.

[@Ship-security]

A weapon for the spec-ops of the time. The normal Man at arms probably walked around off duty with a bollock dager, Quillin dagger, or messer sword. The landsknechts probably walked around with those. You might call it a statement piece. The way they dressed was probably continued in the style of their weapons. I’m sure they didn’t want to look at all like any of the “lesser” soldiers. I bet they were a pain in the ass for all the normal people at the pub.

[@thekinginyellowmessiahofha6308]

Landscknects where the normal mercenaries. Your thinking of dopelsoldner.

[@ScottGalloway-z2l]

Great video, love the presentation style. Thank You

[@okankorad57]

remembering how hard core your old tests were (maybe a tad too much) and seeing baldes survive it with flying colors, and this has a loose pommel after absolutely nothing. The arms and armor polehammer you got also broke from the first hit on a helmet. Seems the company has some kinks to work out

[@tehweh8202]

Was thinking the same. A sword basically has only on function, and that is to cut or pierce through a mix of hard and soft materials with a lot of impact force and to survive that abuse repeatedly. If it fails at that, then it is basically not a sword but a purely decorative wall hanger.

[@kyleeames8229]

5:46 It’s also conceivable that the clothing performed an obfuscatory function; making it difficult for an enemy to tell the exact location of a soldier’s critical areas.

[@muninrob]

I wonder if the tip was designed to discourage stabbing, and potentially having your blade stick. It does look like it would be a vicious tool for hewing at the hands and arms once you're in among the pole arm shafts.

[@littlekong7685]

Thats my theory. Remove the point, and remove the possibility of your soldier trying to thrust at the worst possible scenario for thrusting. Force a hammer grip, and it doubles down on close form hacking and slashing exclusively.

[@KT-pv3kl]

As many ppl here pointed out another reason could very well be to prevent it from getting stuck in clothes. When fighting in a tangle while wearing the absolutely ridicolous clothes that the Landsknechts wore this is a real concern...

[@curtissmith4024]

I like the way you describe harmonic/decibel along the length of the short sword, as well as the basic geometric functionality in melee. Like a romantic relationship. I understand your preference for the Messer style, but daily practice with the Cat's Bogger would give a man better defense from surprise and be faster to kill with. I would like to build myself an exercise area to practice with such a short sword everyday because I get bored with jogging and weights (plus I like yell at imaginary enemies).

[@ericaugust1501]

from watching you swing, looks like the cutting area is moving at a slower speed than when i've seen you use other longer swords. isn't that a result of the short blade? longer blades have a longer arc of travel and the cutting tip is then moving MUCH faster.

[@dutchlancer2562]

Somehow I always convince myself I'm not interested in early "renaissance" (by the lack of a replacing less problematic term for the period) warfare... And then I see something like this and off to the next rabbit hole I go! This was massively interesting to watch, and the amount of different interpretations of the blade really make it something unique and fun to study :)

[@OceanicManiac]

renaissance is problematic?

[@vhaelen326]

the double mercenaries werent neccesarily 'elite' in that sense, the main reason why they were offered double pay was because of multiple reason, ONE/TWO OF WHICH are close to the 'elite mercenary': they were willing to fight in the first line of battle thus bearing more risk then most other lines they got paid extra because they provided valueable and essential specialist equipment they had good combat experience and expertise they were schooled in and mastered the for landsknechte famous sword - (those who mastered it also got a letter saying as much as validation) also it wasnt just limited to double payment, it could be, double, tripple, quadruppel etc or in between but 'doppel söldner' aka "double mercenary" is the term that stuck

[@Gromelnope]

Sound alot like "elite" to me ;)

[@Skallagrim]

Pretty much all of those are the hallmarks of elite troops in my book. :)

[@groovyhoovy2606]

So they didn’t get paid extra because there elite they got paid extra because they’re better than everyone of their contemporaries at what they do

[@lalli8152]

@@Gromelnope Haha yeah. Im genuinly bit confused after reading that since op basicly lists things that we would consider elite troops in army from while saying they really were not "elite". Better eguipment, more pay, mastering weapon use, and so on. Its like give one reason why they would not be just "elite" part of the mercenary army

[@winsunwong5648]

I think what he might mean is that they werent a "class" on their own so much as knights or cuirassiers were. Perhaps landschnect was a looser term or class. That being said, yes they were elite going by the english definition. Maybe hes a german and confused the term with elite as in elite or noble class.

[@justmutantjed]

I don't really have anything to contribute to a conversation, but I felt like popping in and nudging the algorithm a bit. Cheers, dude. Good video.

[@ernonikkola1084]

Since there are longsword sized examples, could the guard shape be a remnant of modifying a longsword guard, and then the design just gained popularity and therefore stuck. I'm referring to longsword examples because a onehanded sword with a guard so big that it can be bent all the way to form the s-shape would be quite rare I'd imagine.

[@littlekong7685]

Might have been they bent a guard (from a captured sword?) as far as they could because the points were awful, realized it caught on everything, then when they had more money, commissioned a full S guard after the fact? Seems a reasonable evolution from experience. Tips broke off, doesn't matter, never used them anyways, and now it gets caught less on flowing fabric. Guard is in the way in the scrum, bend it over, it still acts like a hook, close it all the way. Then his buddies followed suit, then it became a standard.

[@Beardshire]

Those had to be some super long quillions before they rounded it over.

[@BluesAlmighty]

@3:16 "AL MEIN GELT VERSPILT" (Niederdeutsch: all my money played away) poem by Grimmelshausen’s Melchior Sternfels von Fuchshaim and the woodcut picture by Albrecht Dürer in the Basel Art Museum.

[@alexanderguesthistorical7842]

I believe the form of this sword is essentially like that of a Dark Age "Viking Age" or "Migration Era" sword. The pommel projects like the upper guard of these ancient types. I have always asserted that the ancient types were meant to be held A) in hammer grip and B) with the wrist LOCKED at a 90 degree angle to the forearm. When swung from the SHOULDER with the wrist locked, it will tend to draw the blade across the target and induce a DRAW CUT. I believe the form your Katzbalger to be identical in use. I notice in your video you were extending the sword, like an arming sword. This will produce a CHOP to the target, and as this blade is quite short, it will limit it's cutting ability. It will also lead to the rim of the pommel digging in to your wrist, like a Migration Era sword. So perhaps try again with the test cutting but make sure you lock your wrist at 90 degrees to your forearm, and see if the results are any better. I wager they will be.

[@MadassAlex]

A problem I see with that theory is that it would make katzbalger an outlier in application, interfering with any technical instincts that might've been developed with other swords or weapons. Late mediaeval and early modern European swords overwhelmingly use the handshake grip. Tentatively, I suggest that the unpointed examples may actually be "decommissioned"; they were meant for training or sport, probably with dulled edges as well. A katzbalger in use was probably, I think, a sidesword with a bit more messer DNA in it.

[@alexanderguesthistorical7842]

@@MadassAlex Well, one has to remember that Skallagrim's sword is not technically a faithful reproduction of any historical example (as he points out). However, I have certainly seen examples of "Katzbalger" swords with pommels similar to Skallagrim's example. The pommels have a particular shape which flares out to a rim, which, if I interpret Skallagrim's words correctly digs into the wrist when the sword is extended in langtort. In a very similar manner to how a Dark-Age sword, with an upper cross guard also digs into your wrist if you extend one of those forward in langtort. So my hypothesis is not based on "applications" or "technical instincts", but upon the very mechanics of the sword itself. If you use one in hammer grip, everything is fine, if you extend one in langtort, the pommel rim WILL dig you in the wrist! in the same manner as a Dark-Age sword with an upper cross guard WILL dig you in the wrist if you extend that in langtort. Physics are physics, and this is the way that these swords were designed/developed. Function, in this case, follows form.

[@MadassAlex]

@@alexanderguesthistorical7842 As you point out, this kind of design feature would usually be found on classical or early mediaeval swords. Hammer grip makes more sense in that case, as the swordsman also has a shield to cover them. But I'm struggling to find a reason for katzbalger to be so restricted in the grip when it only limits their defensive options, and without a shield at that.

[@alexanderguesthistorical7842]

@@MadassAlex The grips (handles) are the way that they are/were. If it's obvious that in order to use them in a certain way (langort) would actually cause the user severe discomfort (being jabbed in the wrist by the pommel) then is it not logical - whatever the reasoning to the contrary - to assume that they were not used in that manner (langtort). Again, function follows form. There must have been a reason for them to have been designed/developed the way they were, even if most people in the modern world can't understand that.

[@MadassAlex]

@@alexanderguesthistorical7842 The reason appears not to be universally acknowledged in the time of the katzbalger, given the diversity of sidearms among landsknechte and the existence of katzbalger with more forgiving pommels. So I'm hesitant to take the archeological record at its word on this one, for that reason among others. As far as I'm aware, there are no treatises for the use of katzbalger specifically, and German treatises contemporary with landsknechte teach short sword with messer as their example. So that's a primary source that would contradict another -- that being antique hilts that encourage a hammer grip. The only way to square this, and hold both types of evidence as true, is to suggest that there was no particular katzbalger fighting style at all, and better trained landsknechte wore messer or longswords.

[@Herebrand]

I'm wondering if it's meant to be used in a 2 handed grip. The 2nd hand holding the ricasso for more control and force when up close and hacking at pike shafts. Keeping the hilt short, as well as the way they were carried seems like an attempt to keep it out of the way while using the larger weapon. As for the pointless tips, these are well trained and highly sought-after mercenaries. You'd much rather capture them with relatively minor injuries (for ransom or possibly pay them to fight for you) than delivering stabbing wounds more likely to kill.

[@elmaxidelsur]

Fashion has a role to play in weapons desings as well... Even to this day. Maybe there is some of that going on in this weapon

[@maccurtis730]

Nobody wants a sword point stuck in their clothes.

[@maccurtis730]

Nobody wants a sword point stuck in their clothes.

[@MrMetonicus]

Nobody wants a sword point stuck in their clothes.

[@RoyalGuardNo17]

Long time ago, when I was starting with historic fencing, there were katzbalgers available to learn with and most of the folks were very fond of them, so after a few months of training with a "classic" longsword and wooden padded messer for training I picked up a katzbalger. And it was terrible. The balance was terrible and I got more tired from swinging it, than the longsword. It was almost like a blunt and inelegant instrument compared to either longsword or messer and it definitely feels like it was made for looking like a schlong and for bragging rights if you actually managed to defeat someone with it.

[@pmpm1256]

While you were describing the vibrations of blades at different points, I noticed a visual similarity in the points of higher vibration to the harmonic points of a guitar neck, where the 7th and 12th frets are the points that generate different degrees of vibration. I don't think this means much for playing music with blades or using guitars in combat, but I thought it was interesting enough to share. I imagine these are convergent factors, where I'm assuming you want your blade to vibrate less and your guitar strings to vibrate more.

[@DimensionDoorTeam]

By your opinions and reviews, finally i can decide the tiers of my fantasy game weapons, huge thanks!

[@HeadCannonPrime]

Having experience in BOTH sword fighting AND Landsnecht historical cosplay the the one thing that gets overlooked is; Sometimes Landsknecht did things that were LESS effective yet showed off how much money and how awesome they were. Like going into battle with 15 lbs of clothing on them instead of proper armor. If a katzbalger was more expensive and looked more like a "knightly" weapon than your common Messer, then the Landsknecht would absolutely buy and wear that. Because being a Landsknecht was 95% walking around town with a giant cod piece and spending money before you died, and 5% actually fighting. Today's equivalent to spending thousands on lifting your truck even though you have never taken it offroad. As to why the katzbalger didn't have a point, I have 2 theories. First theory is the katzbalger, as a secondary weapon was PROBABLY most used for cutting enemy PIKES after your own pike was dropped or destroyed, the point would be absolutely worthless at hacking through a wood pole. I doubt it was even used for engaging people very much as the PIKES would be doing most of the heavy lifting. My second follow on theory is that the Landsnecht pike line was VERY tight quarters fighting with a lot of pushing and shoving more like a rugby scrum than a shield wall. having a sword with a sharp point might have been a liability to the people on your own team(Also in cloth armor), particularly if the front row gets pushed back. Chopping an enemy pike from the horizontal or rising position all start with the point of the sword directed at people on your OWN side and these are troops that fought without shields. It would be VERY easy to accidentally jab your neighbor in the leg winding back for a cut.

[@christopherreed4723]

The history of the German states at the time was pretty messed up. Frequent peasant revolts, a lot of friction between individual principalities, an economy that was pretty depressed (and depressing) as well as a job market that was completely dominated by assorted guilds that enforced "closed-shop" policies. A lot of religious unrest as well. The rationale seems to me very similar to the Spanish dealing with a glut of young(ish) fighters who were no longer useful now that all the Moors had been kicked out of Spain, but were also a major problem for the King. So give them some ships and send them off to those far-away islands that nice Italian navigator found to bring Christianity to the heathen, gold and silver to the crown, and get them out from underfoot. Result: lots of Conquistadors. Not having a nice Genoese navigator to obligingly find far-away continents full of heathens to convert, conquer, and exploit, Maximilian had to make do with Italy. But funneling the "disruptive elements" of the population (or at least some of them) into Landsknecht companies was much better than having them join roving bands of bandits or sign up for the latest peasant revolt. And, at least from what I've read, the Landsknechts' combat performance seems to bear this out. It was pretty inconsistent...they won fights, but they also broke and ran from a lot of them if things didn't go their way from the start. Apparently also a nightmare off the battlefield.

[@MadassAlex]

It's most likely that the chad lads were wearing clothes over armour, forming a kind of camoflauge (your opponents don't know which piece you gambled away last night lol). It's difficult to tell how extensive any armour was, too, because artistic depictions emphasise clothing and armour wouldn't be maintained as a set, such as in the case of chivalric harness.

[@littlekong7685]

@@MadassAlex yeah, years ago read a bit about them, apparently the women about town hated them for coming in and chopping up nice dresses to add as tassels or patches because they liked the material or the pattern. There were enough of them, they usually got away with a lot of stuff a regular soldier would be hung for.

[@littlekong7685]

On that, by removing the point, you force them to solely rely on cuts. Effectively through design the leaders informed tactics on individual performance. Thrusts require drawing and aiming and potentially exposing yourself through positioning. Not to mention if you thrust (Hit or miss), and the whole scrum suddenly moves 2m to the left, you probably just lost your weapon. Assuming it wasn't knocked aside by the other flailing swords around you. Cuts can be close and wide and in any direction. Double down with a forced hammer grip, and you further restrict the viable attack actions they can take, thus reducing the chances they try something creative, risky, and stupid in the scrum. It means the user is basically forced to use the weapon in a very particular way that most benefits him and his team, without giving riskier, more skilled options to try (and most likely fail at).

[@christopherreed4723]

@@MadassAlex You make a hood point. Artistic conventions always trumped realism or accuracy in that time period. You see this in the engravings for early medical treatises. A technically accurate depiction of a person's internal organs, but it's so cluttered up by the dramatically laid-out pose if the subject, the background, several bystanders, a few visitors from the myths of antiquity, and (somewhere, probably) a kitchen sink that the actual value of the illustration is marginal. I suspect the same conventions skewed the illustrations of Salvator Fabris' fencing manual (which were produced not by Fabris, but by the court painter in Denmark) that result in an exaggerated inclined posture that doesn't really work well with body mechanics. So it's not inconceivable ("You keep using that word...") that a number of period illustrations of Landsknechts overemphasized their outlandishness to make a point.

[@shanedbunting]

I can definably see using the guard to push a pike shaft up then choping right down the length of the shaft with the advance into the pikeman.

[@rolandropnack4370]

I'd suggest the Katzbalger sits a bit loose in its scabbard because the scabbard lacks the cats fur that is supposed to line it on the inside, as a proper sword scabbard should be* in order to ensure not only a good but not too resisting fit, but also to protect the blade against humidity. The grease-soaked fur acts as a waterproof seal and re-oils the blade. Concerning the use: the role of smashing through shafts and countering the pike unit was not that of the Katzbalger, but of the Bidenhander. If the enemy came into too close range the combattand then would change blades, using his bidenhander as a kind of shield, resting the tip on the ground and moving left and right behind it, slashing out with the katzbalger. *Not necessarily with cat fur, sheep wool with its natural content of Lanolin would be much better. But in times of war, expecially such a devastating event like the 30 years war who destroyed vast parts of the german empire, cats might be more available than sheep.

[@anthonyjbargeman5280]

If you don't like that blade Sir. I will with a gladness accept it from yourself as a gift. I would cherish that sword Sir. A fantastic back up weapon for a halbard or speer.

[@Dogelao]

Looks like a good sword for sparring at taverns also. Since were shads, you know, man do stupid shit to get attention from the ladies. This design and their type of clothing would allow'em to make "friendly duels" without a high risk to kill eachother by accident. Going a little further, that big guard and that sharp corner on the pommel and that super moveable scabbard look perfect for using iai-nuke techniques. (iai-nuke: advanced bikenjustu to use the sword at a very short distance without drawing the sword or letting the opponent draw). Maybe they had something similar. One more thing about the hyper mobile scabbards, it facilitates the drawing in very tight/squish situations as it allows to draw from various angles.

[@shaundouglas2057]

The English had their alehouse dagger.

[@taylor.whips1]

I love swords and sword talk. Well worth the watch.

[@nautilusrex8812]

I think you all are overthinking the name. The most flamboyant mercenaries in the world jokingly calling their side sword a "cat-skinner" as a sort of slang term makes more sense to me than anything to do with an actual cat.

[@Mike28625]

Puss in boots

[@storyspren]

Makes a lot of sense in context with the phrase "more than one way to skin a cat" if it was used at the same time in the same places

[@RokuroCarisu]

Native German speaker here. Katzbalgen (verb) means "fighting like cats": Getting up close, swinging fast and furiously, and doing absolutely everything to hurt the opponent; dignity and discipline be damned. So, the Katzbalger is literally a sword for catfights - in the sense of fighting dirty, like mercenaries were not undeservedly expected to.

[@thekinginyellowmessiahofha6308]

Oh yeah perfect.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

Also it may have picked up the name from a derisive joke. "That thing is so short, it's only good for skinning cats! Hahahaha!" That kind of thing.

[@A.Smith.1066]

@Skallagrim Just a thought, but could have it been intended as (for want of a better word) an 'Anti-Pike weapon'? What I mean by this is the flat of the blade pushing against the pike shaft, the S guard locking against the underside of the pike haft and then bringing it down in a slicing motion, running the blade down towards the pike-man's hands/fingers? ...Obviously this would when both sides were up close and personal in the melee.

[@V3RTIGO222]

Definitely seems like a more practical machete or gladius for war... Perhaps not weighty enough for big chops, but the guard is huge and would be great for defending against opposing slashing/chopping attacks. At close range I imagine it's length makes it good for getting in close and applying the blade to the neck of your enemy.

[@jameswoodard4304]

"Gladius" implies a thrust-centric sword which would be quite different in use to machetes or as I assume this sword was used.

[@V3RTIGO222]

@@jameswoodard4304 gladius was a thick bladed short sword, which was also relatively good at chopping on its thick edge... this is effectively a gladius converted over into a chopping weapon exclusively.

[@Codevil.]

"The Book Of Eli" I Adopted his method of cary , for a one handed shorty. I super appreaciate a "20 , or so blade

[@OldLizard]

1st of all - most katzbalgers that I saw in museums/collections had a regular sword length. There are two key katzbalgers "signatures" - the handle's length and shape and the crossguard's. And that is the key thing. Crossguard of this type provides the best protection combined with a fast sword drawing. If you make the crossguard more complex (and with more protection) - you will lose a sword drawing speed. And since a sword (especially a short one) was never a primary weapon, more like a backup in case of emergency - it was a good solution. Next thing about the handle and its shape. For small katzbalgers (like yours) it was usually very short and pyramid shape, with a massive pommel. I.e it was easy to handle such sword, even if your hand is damaged (so you are unable to use your "normal weapon" - pike or halberd). P.S. all pictures that were made by Urs Graf are comic and grotesque, Urs was on the opposite side =) P.P.S. Ofc, this shape of a crossguard was a landsknecht "signature", so we can't say that it was 100% functional, style was also a thing. But the same for cinquedea and some other weapons. But - we also should remember that if something was made in this way, and that "something" will be a difference between your life and death - there was a good reason for that.

[@KaseyBadwell]

The function isn't for what you're used to. It's a secondary weapon. It's meant to compliment and fill in the flaws of their main weapon form. If you ever played American football and ever had to control the frey as a lineman and manhandle other men it would lend greater hints as to how it could be used. Especially if you had a huge blade to engage an enemy and likely lock their weapons up you could free an arm well enough to deploy a secondary in order to further block other incoming attacks or just as easily land a felling blow in order to disengage your main and clear a path by making a hole in the line of the frey. Leverage of force and prying between targets wouldn't be very easy if your blade was full length down to the hilt. But I'd it was intentionally blunt like a claymore having a section past the hilt intended to be handled in order to pivot and manipulate the entire weapon allowing a much more functional form in combat. I could easily see that blade used as a secondary when accompanying a massive main when used to charge a front line of pikes in order to make way for follow up troops.

[@arstotzkanatthedmz4486]

An executioner sword for my executioner sword to hold

[@ryansather8851]

any clues if the sword might have been used specifically to chop off heads? Looks like an executioners sword and think mercs would have to prove that the did something and maybe it wasnt enough to cut off a ear? Never have seen this sword before though

[@luelee6168]

If its a brawler weapon than a hammer grip would make the most sense. These guys weren't sword fighters, outside of maybe the doppelsöldners, they were elite infantry who fought in a tightly packed formation where a brawler might do better fighting in. Definitely a fascinating bunch.

[@stevendominguez5017]

Just a thought by someone who knows not a ton about swords, but a little about fabric. Might it be possible that the rounded tip is to cut through fabric? Like a fabric cutting wheel that you wouldn't have to be precise with.

[@bobinthewest8559]

As to the “why” of this design... have you considered the possibility that these may have been made from larger swords that had been damaged?

[@karstenschuhmann8334]

Or cut down on purpose. In a narrow formation, a shorter sword will be beneficial. Just like the gladius. You would not need a smith to cut down a sword and to bend the crossguard into an S shape.

[@johndododoe1411]

Isn't the "false edge" on swotds useful when retrieving the sword from inside a stabbed target? Consider especially an upward thrust through the belly or groin of an enemy in close quarters as would be natural with an upwards pointing hammer gripped gladius.