The Ki-Adi-Mundi Controversy Is So Stupid It’s Laughable

[@pukeymcphistyJC]

What in the actual fuck?! So first, I'm not allowed to dislike episode 3 because of the stupid witches, their dumb chants, and the fact that im supposed to accept that anyone can just create life if they have an afternoon to kill. Now im not allowed to dislike episode 4 because I didn't think mundi should've been in the series because he wasn't alive yet and because of his line in TPM. Ok, John. I'll go back and watch your review of the episodes so I know which parts of the series to dislike

[@joshavila5024]

Don’t worry! If you like this shit show ….then he’s happy for you!!!! You just can’t dislike it because you like the established Star Wars lore (that makes John look like he doesn’t know as much as you about Star Wars and hurts his ego).

[@pukeymcphistyJC]

@joshavila5024 Lol, he showed more respect towards all 12 people who likes the show then he did his followers who disliked the show. And he dislikes the show! Talk about so stupid that it's laughable 😂. I actually dislike the show for some of the reasons he does, but apparently that's where the buck stops

[@MattWeberWA]

John I think sometimes let's his hatred for the prequels influence his opinion, probably without even noticing. If you hate everything prequel, then consistency with them presumably doesn't bother you.

[@WKADESIGNS]

The lengths you went through to try and make sense out of this cameo was probably more work than the writers actually put in to shoehorn him in.

[@johncampea]

His cameo was pointless and should have never happened. Just like the whole show. BUT... as dumb and pointless as it was... it didn't break any Canon.

[@WKADESIGNS]

@@johncampea On the cameo we agree this should never have happened, however it renders canon and the storytelling of the Phantom Menace obsolete. Not to mention Mundi's alien race only has a 70 year life expectancy (canon) ~ the writers made a critical error, they didn't do their homework.

[@soulcraft_84]

It might be okay to break non G-cannon, but this is a curious one to break … as it is the base groundwork of the prequels. You would think there would have been someone to say, “yeah I don’t know if this is a great idea.”

[@novarobotslofi6596]

Regardless of the points made, If i was a casual viewer & just watched TPM, then Acolyte i’d be confused AF. “But he never said Sith”. GTFO, there’s red lightsabers being thrown around, the general audience will associate that with Vader, Maul & Sith’s. IT IS valid to complain about among all the other terrible shit in this show.

[@tokoya9]

Yoda's existence shits on your entire flawed argument lol. That and it's very easy to get around this Sith thing

[@distortedsoul27]

@@tokoya9 Not when the showrunner themselves said it's a story about Sith, lol. Yoda is 900 years old by the time of the prequels.

[@LostUtopiaFilms]

I’m pretty close to the person in your example (didn’t watch TPM right before Acolyte but semi recent) and I really didn’t notice anything until I came online. He wasn’t an overly memorable character imo. If this was a character like Yoda I could see why people are upset.

[@kpag3030]

Dude, we all complained about canon breaking shit in the prequels too back in the day. We as fans want shit to make sense and have continuity. His age is whatever, but there are so many problems created with this show and the sith and the force and Jedi and force created life and other shit.

[@LordMickeyM]

“Don’t complain about things that aren’t real”? The whole damn show isn’t real lol. This is Star Wars not World War 2. SW fans have every right to complain about things that aren’t real because you’re doing the exact same thing. 🤦‍♂️

[@ZachBobBob]

By "not real" he obviously means Ki-Adi Mundi's age within the context of Star Wars canon wasn't real because it wasn't canon in the first place. OBIVOUSLY all of Star Wars is fictional.

[@upinsmoke06]

@@ZachBobBob as if the writers know this

[@carlosminetti3685]

It’s attention to detail plain and simple. If they don’t care to get the small stuff right, it takes you out of it

[@datguy3581]

Nothing contradicts any other piece of Star Wars media.

[@carlosminetti3685]

@@datguy3581 The birth year thing doesn’t bug me that much. Easy retcon. But Ki Adi Mundi in Phantom Menace says “there hasn’t been with activity in over a millennia” (rough quote). Less than 100 years later he’s in a meeting witnessing Sith or at least dark side activity. It’s a bit of a stretch, they could’ve picked any other Jedi. Plo Koon would’ve been ok. It’s not an outward contradiction but it’s damn close

[@eiden5778]

@@carlosminetti3685 He didnt witness the sith, he was at the meeting talking about an assassin, he had no reason to believe its a sith at that point. If he had followed the other jedi to actually meet the sith, that would be entirely different. Plo koon wouldnt make a difference, hes also a council member. All the council members believe the sith are extinct, not just ki adi mundi. To me its just kinda funny that they chose him, since he was so close about finding out about the sith and it went under his nose, but still he didnt know about it.

[@motodork]

@@carlosminetti3685 There are valid reasons to retcon something. But retconning something simply because the creators were ignorant of important details of the very thing they now have to retcon is never a valid reason. And that is what happened here. It's like "We wanted him in this episode because we think his head is cool but we didn't know he's not old enough to exist at this time EVEN THOUGH WE ARE LUCASFILM. So, we will just retcon him and change the year he was born." No, that's not valid.

[@carlosminetti3685]

@@motodork dude I agree with you that’s literally my point

[@gunnerycaptain6158]

At the very best, it's sloppy writing, criticism of which could have been avoided with a very small effort of research.

[@anto.joseph]

Lol when people cant agree on why something terrible is terrible😂😂

[@bigplay0840]

Sure we can…. Disney’s involved! Lol

[@FlyGuyKai23]

So nothing means nothing

[@iamjacks1290]

For me at least..All of the horrific problems you identified in this episode are 10000% true. The Ki-Adi-Mundi stuff makes all of that stuff more glaring. The creators know, even if it is explained in the next 4 episodes, putting him in there is going to cause this type of storm. They want people fighting about this stuff online from week to week to keep it in the social zeitgeist, expecially when it is a poorly made\written show. Yes, you are correct the word Sith has not been used. However, you cannot fault anyone that assumes that given that Headland is quoted front and center on Disney's website, "Leslye Headland was “very interested in telling a story about the Sith” when it came to The Acolyte - the new Star Wars series on Disney+."

[@grizzla71]

The 2003 Ki Adi Mundi official “Top Trumps” prequel collectors card sporting the Lucasfilm logo, the Lucasfilm trademark, and stating Mundi’s age as being 70yo - you’re saying that wasn’t canon?

[@johncampea]

Correct. The George Lucas era of Lucasfilm established that anything under "G" and "T" level canon, was not true (untouchable) canon. LOTS of stuff in the lower levels of canon had lucasfilm logos and trademarks. If you don't like it, don't complain to me, take it up with George Lucas... he's the one who set up that system.

[@waterjack3]

Would have been so much easier to just create another character...less confusion

[@slythe6755]

Thank you!!!👍 old time period, new characters.

[@Moviefanforever5679]

John, it's not laughable or stupid when something we love is in the hands of company that doesn't give a crap about the product.

[@thehacker4012]

Why can't you just take the L?

[@lordrayden3045]

Since all people are doing is bitching about it, How can you love it?

[@thehacker4012]

@@a-atheist You just copied and pasted the same argument I already debunked. Again, take the L.

[@joshavila5024]

John hates when Star Wars fans know the lore better than him and care about it.

[@caseydearden1340]

Where in the canon does it say his name? And is really the worst thing in the world?

[@studior2962]

The lore of his birthday is not even canon it’s from legends

[@WhatISayPodcast]

What did he that was wrong ?

[@BaileyGreenwood2001]

It literally got charged from canon to legends in real time on wookiepedia and his birth was mentioned on several products from the prequel era that had the backing of lucasfilm​@@studior2962

[@joshavila5024]

@@Dakr2000nope. Just commenting in real time as I listen to his arguments.

[@appledelafuente]

John usually I’m on board but this time we will disagree. Besides the bad writing and story structure of the Acolyte, George Approved the information on episode 1 material. Thats info on a movie. They are referring to books and comic books that is loosely cannon. However, this is the extension of “movie” experience. This is so much so that in Star Wars wiki had it till it was live for the first hour before they undated live while people were looking it up. That aspect teaches us that your take is on a false platform. Your take is incorrect even by the “cannon” guy. The difference between extended and expanded are different since one contains factual information that did not fit in the timing of film vs let’s tell stories that could have happened.

[@eagc7]

Even if George approve his age, its not in the movie or the show, so to Disney that is irrelevant, to Disney the only thing that is canon is what is in the movies and clone wars, anything established in tie in material regardless if it had George stamp of approval is out the window. We need to wrap our heads around the fact that all of that stuff is not canon to Disney,, to Disney the only stuff that is canon from the Lucas era is Episodes 1-6, The Clone Wars Movie and The Clone Wars series, that is where it all ends for Disney for Lucas Era Star Wars content.

[@sammisun3173]

The show was literally presented as a story about Sith and how we have never gotten a story from their perspective. That was how they marketed it and got fans excited. Who tf came into this show with the understanding that it was about “Dark Jedi” or “dark force user”? WHO ELSE WEILDS A RED LIGHTSABER?!?!? Understanding cannon and lore is just as fundamental as creating a good story. It’s just as difficult to enjoy a SW (or any franchise) project if they paid attention to lore/cannon and it was poorly written as it is difficult to enjoy a very well written story that breaks many SIMPLE things in cannon and disregards essential lore. …and it failed at both

[@Dabomb2394]

The problem with his appearance is this: Disney has destroyed the legacy of a lot of characters people loved (Sidious, Anakin, Luke, etc). So to imply that this dude LIED to the Jedi council in Episode 1 all to make this dumpster fire of a show possible is the problem. Sacrificing his legacy, for this, is WRONG.

[@johncampea]

You didn't watch the video. He didn't lie. The Jedi in Actoyte CLEARLY state that they believed Mae was being trained by a Jedi or a "splinter order" not Sith. Just like the Jedi Council in Phantom Menace didn't beieve Maul was a Sith at first.

[@Dabomb2394]

@@johncampea I suppose. But this should still be brought up to the council. Darth Maul hadn’t killed anyone yet the entire council was made aware of him. This person has orchestrated the death of 3 Jedi so far. This should be a major concern.

[@zavistyle6080]

@@Dabomb2394 John mentions this in his open mic about his problems with the acolyte from a day or two ago.

[@abstuli1490]

That is the problem with Disney and several other entertainment producers today. They hate former fans and what we like and do everything they can to destroy what has been built in the past. We see this over and over again in TV shows as Star Wars, MCU, Willow, The Witcher, Halo, The Wheel of Time and The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power to name a few. It is rare to see something being made today that is reasonably faithful to books or what has come before. They want to create entertainment for a new generation of people who don't watch the entertainment they create. As Quentin Tarantino said a couple of years ago, which applies even more today, is that ideology trumps art, ideology trumps good, ideology trumps entertainment and this is the reason for the poor entertainment we now see.

[@VictorSaez361]

Such a moronic take

[@MrNdfanatic]

So I guess John won’t be doing a show with Harloff anytime soon with this take

[@pukeymcphistyJC]

🤣 Harloff's a crybaby too

[@jmeyer5able]

For me, his inclusion represents a larger issue with the show as a whole. The decisions made by the writers/directors/showrunner just don’t make sense. You could have had some random, no-name Jedi take his place and avoid the entire backlash. It’s not like including Ki-Adi Mundi added anything special to the show. But I agree, there are fundamental storytelling issues with the show that should get the spotlight.

[@jediryan9454]

See the whole show and see if it was pointless or careless to add him in there. I am sure Dave Filoni being part of the creative process here, has some plan as to WHY he is in the show. It's dumb to prejudge a show that is not yet finished.

[@jmeyer5able]

@@jediryan9454 But when the creatives behind the show are consistently making narrative choices that don’t make sense, there isn’t much incentive to finish watching the show.

[@andrewlindquist8723]

I think John’s technically correct but using Mundi here makes things confusing. Out of all the characters to choose from or create why this one and for what reason? You certainly can criticize that decision.

[@eagc7]

Fanservice, plain and simple

[@bingbong4427]

It's definitely not fan service, we will find out by the end of the show, they are not that stupid to use such a prominent character, but it probably has something to do with Corruption and lies starting to seep into the jedi order which made it so easy for palpatine to take over., Thay have already said they don't want the High Council informed.

[@michalrojas1206]

I don’t have a good opinion about you

[@hectorfrausto9705]

Except there is an official Episode 1 guide published by Lucasfilm in 1999 that shows Ki Adi Mundis age at 60yrs old, aswell as TWO separate Topps cards showing his age at 70 during AOTC, his birthdate is clearly shown as 92 BBY, thats 3 examples of actual published products that show his age all licensed by Lucasfilm, so No he should not have been born at the time of the Acolyte 🤷🏽

[@johncampea]

Soooo... you didn't watch the video before commenting. The Ep 1 guide was considered C-Level canon, which was NEVER considered "real" Canon under George Lucas. Lucas himself broke C-Level canon many times.

[@hectorfrausto9705]

@@johncampea so you completely bypass the multiple times his bday is listed as 92 BBY? lol stop it.. his bday was set in stone until wookiepedia magically erased it AFTER fans complained about the episode lol

[@epic3423]

John you should have a discussion with Star Wars theory about this. I’m sure he would love to hear what you have to say

[@johncampea]

I think Star Wars Theory and I are repped by the same sponsorship team. He runs a great channel, but there's nothing for us to discuss because 1) We already both think the show is terrible, 2) it is fact that Ki didn't know the Sith were around, and 3) Ki's age was never established or set in legitimate G or T level canon. None of this is in dispute.

[@epic3423]

@@johncampea he says that ki-adi-mundi wasn’t even born yet. Wookieepedia changed the date of his birth so it would make him look like he was around. You both have valid points, it would be interesting for you to discuss it. Not saying to get into an argument with each other, just a discussion of where you guys differ

[@lordvader4934]

​@@johncampeaWhat category of canon was the topps card that has his age again? 🤔

[@barcaskywalker246]

The first argument sure. But the second? If there's no Sith, then why would they bring Ki-Adi-Mundi into this show? They could've made it any random Jedi, but they brought Mundi. Why? Because of his line in the Phantom Menace! We might be wrong, but our argument is that we're certain that's where they're headed. Making Ki-Adi-Mundi a liar who will design a cover-up. All just because his line in TPM would contradict this series. I hope I'm wrong. But you can't write it off just cause it hasn't happened yet. If it doesn't, then sure I'll agree with your video calling us stupid.

[@eagc7]

If this is only appearance, i think he was only there for fanservice

[@kacinema96]

It was just a cameo. It’s not that deep.

[@PascalPflugfelder]

I don't actually care if Disney changes lore, be it canon or not. What bothers me is that they do it for no greater purpose. Ki Adi being in the show brings nothing interesting. It changes nothing about his line in episode 1 since he's never been in contact with that supposed Sith.

[@daviddrewmills]

Semantics. Wtf is a sith then.

[@johncampea]

A Sith is a very specific thing. It isn't just anyone who uses the force and isn't a Jedi.

[@tbone007]

​​​@@johncampeaWait a second. So, how did the Jedi council figure out Darth Maul was a Sith? I don't believe in the movie The Phantom Menace or the novelization maul telling them I am Sith before cutting down Qui-Gon Jinn?

[@ribby18]

I love how if you think this garbage show is good, John will say he's happy for you, and that's great! But if you dislike it for a different reason than him, then he needs to make a video to tell you why your opinion is stupid and mocks you. Makes lots of sense.

[@joshavila5024]

It’s his huge ego. It’s the fact that he doesn’t know or care about the deeper lore, and he feels the need to flex his movie and story writing knowledge on the “nerds” who get their “panties in a bunch” over “stupid” stuff. You are 100% correct.

[@lockekappa500]

I mean, he's right though.

[@atari1994]

Why even open it up for debate... they used him specifically for this... and they should have known people were gonna go nuts. They don't know their audience.

[@liamtaylor7205]

Politely John, you’re speaking out of your arse

[@BaileyGreenwood2001]

It literally got charged from canon to legends in real time on wookiepedia and his birth was mentioned on several products from the prequel era that had the backing of lucasfilm

[@martinalbert29]

So by this logic we can put Darth Vader in the Acolyte and cannon is not broken.

[@johncampea]

You clearly didn’t pay attention. Vader stuff is in the movies. Thus G-Canon (true canon)

[@eiden5778]

are you an idiot?

[@Dru2037]

It's a good idea to watch the video before commenting.

[@maddoxglow3268]

You didn’t watch the video 😂

[@IowaRocker81]

You have to understand John that a lot of Star Wars fans value the EU canon over Disney canon

[@johncampea]

That's fair. Nothing wrong with that. But you can appreciate something while at the same time acknowledging what it is and what it isn't. Lucasfilm officially licensed the Thrawn Trilogy (Heir to the Empire)... and I think they're the best Star Wars books ever... but I also accept that they are NOT Canon.

[@lordvader4934]

​@johncampea So your cool with Plagues popping up in the show?

[@WildhammerWanderer]

@@lordvader4934 Well Plagueis is canon. He's mentioned in the movies. Anything beyond that, from the Plagueis book or other media, isn't. Wait until he shows up in canon again and he's not a Munn anymore. Oh boy.

[@abstuli1490]

@@johncampea Immediately the Jedi see a person who is very strong with the Force is masked as a Sith and wields a red lightsaber like a Sith. It would then be idiotic of the Jedi not to even suspect that it could be a Sith. We as fans insert ourselves into the story and we immediately suspect that the masked person is a Sith. In Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace, Qui-Gon Jinn immediately suspected in the battle against Darth Maul that he was a Sith even though no one had seen a Sith in over a thousand years. It is also the case that only a Sith can create a red lightsaber with the dark side of the force. A dark jedi can use the dark side of the force to make orange lightsabers. That means that the person who looks like a Sith, acts like a Sith and uses the power like a Sith and use a lightsabers from a Sith is likely a Sith.

[@bokvarv1926]

@@johncampea Sith were what? FALLEN JEDI.......that eventually became a differnt and dark side order...so ANY INDIRECT reference is the acknowledgement that the sith are around, making the scen a canon conflicting one

[@TheRyGuyV1]

Why was it necessary to even have Ki Adi Mundi appear in The Acolyte? The Acolyte is like Ghostbusters 2016 in that it is not as bad as many say, but still forgettable mediocrity.

[@upinsmoke06]

No. They could have used literally anyone else

[@matjam421]

I love how John just dismisses things he doesn't agree with. Wanting continuity is not a ridiculous request. If you don't agree with something, that's perfectly fine, but your incessant need to belittle and insult people speaks a lot about your character and what kind of person you really are.

[@upinsmoke06]

I hate it when he speaks in that stupid voice when he talks about what others say. It's kind of condescending

[@adorabooadoraboo9910]

Lol you both are so off 😅😅😅😅

[@upinsmoke06]

@@adorabooadoraboo9910 you are if you actually think the writers put some thought into this

[@ZombieManiac4217]

I don't think this technically breaks Canon yet. Ki Adi Mundi only knows that there is possibly a rogue jedi out there, not a sith. It would only be problematic if Sol or the other jedi inform him that they have encountered an evil guy with a red lightsaber (sith). Also ppl who are mad that him being born in this time period must've been living under a rock for the past 12 years bc they've been breaking legends Canon since Disney acquired Lucasfilm.

[@SuperSupersoda]

Agree with John on the age thing, but the second one is bullshit. The Jedi believing the Sith have been extinct for a 1,000 years is fundamental to G-cannon in the Prequel trilogy. It is irrelevant that they aren't called Sith, it's a dark side force user, it's an imbalance in the force, it undermines the entire canon of the prequel trilogy.

[@vederianl9723]

Just because the Sith use the dark side doesn't mean all dark side users are Sith. Just like all Catholics are Christian but not all Christians are Catholic.

[@OneGaurdian]

Let's look back a that scene in episode 1. Qui-Gon has already told them of the dark sider with a red lightsaber that he's encountered in states his belief that it's a Sith, and Ki-Adi Mundi gives his line. That tells you, right away, that somebody using a red lightsaber and the dark side is not an definite confirmation to be a Sith, in their Jedi's eyes. Plus, we have to wait and see if any of them actually make it it back to Coruscant to report their encounter.

[@jred201]

Look, if this guy is a Sith you will be right. But I don't think he is. Kylo Ren was not a Sith.

[@SuperSupersoda]

@@vederianl9723 That's not how George Lucas cannon works, that's modern Disney crap. Lucas Star Wars was about good versus evil, light versus dark, there aren't shades of gray. Lucas was about the binary, because most of the great myths throughout human history were binaries. Most of the things he was influenced by were binaries. That's why Qui-Gon realizes Darth Maul is a Sith RIGHT AWAY in Phantom Menace; Maul used the Jedi arts and the dark side, that's what a Sith is. That's why this episode completely undermines the entire prequel trilogy; the reason the sith being extinct is so critical is because it provides the justification for the Jedi's complacency. The worst part of all of this is that the Acolyte doesn't need to be 100 years before TPM, it could be 2,000 years before and it would be fundamentally the SAME show. LucasFilm is trolling fans right now, which, to quote Iron Man is "not a great plan."

[@SuperSupersoda]

@@jred201 Which is why George Lucas would have NEVER made the sequel trilogy, and why Disney did. The top two levels of canon that Campea covered were what George Lucas directly worked on, which is own two hands. Lucas NEVER would have allowed Kylo Ren, dark side force users are Sith, to have another Sith undermines Anakin's act of destroying the Sith as the Chosen One. I left Disney Star Wars after the Last Jedi, because I figured out where this was headed. I've seen enough beloved franchises destroyed to know the warning signs. I pad for a ticket to see the Rise of Skywalker 1 time in theatres, and I've not watched anything SW since. I still care about SW and like to talk about it, but I'm not watching anything associated with it.

[@RMV1560]

They picked Mundi to be in this show because of that one line he says in episode one it wasn’t random. It was specific because they believe if he’s in the show, then it validates it, because they want to use Sith

[@drganknstein]

If the Acolyte was a fan created production i wouldnt judge it so harshly but this is a multi-million dollar tv series.

[@lalotime]

Remember everybody, John used to work with Collider

[@iconickrepaints]

Agreed on the date on birth but disagree on charge #2. A mysterious character cloaked in black with a red lightsaber shows up and completely owns a whole party of jedi master, knights and padawans with minimal effort. Clearly a dark side user and they would be able to sense this. At this point the history of the sith is well-documented. These very same traits were enough for Qui Gonn to come to the conclusion that Maul was a sith so why not in this case? At the very least If im a jedi on the council in TPM and Ki Adi Mundi of all people makes that "millenia" claim, it's worth bringing up "well hey dude what about that one warrior less than a hundred years ago who clearly was so powerful he/she basically spanked a whole jedi search party with a flick of the wrist?" Now, what i know may indeed happen is the dark sith character may end up being one of the witch moms and thus not be a sith at all but then in thst case in TPM Ki Adi Mundi SHOULD say "it may not be a sith but it can be witchcraft we have seen it appear as dark jedi arts before ." Is this hugely important? No, even the kenobi show broke canon. But it's just needless and these showrunners dont give a crap about it.

[@JawkneeJay]

If the show was actually good, they could get away with changing the canon slightly here and there, but the show is so bad no one is going to give them a pass on stuff like this.

[@jimakomanf1065]

John’s a Prequel hater so this video doesn’t surprise me

[@MR-si2cd]

That second point hasn’t been proven yet, you have to wait till the end of the show

[@9899bingo]

I think if the show wasn’t such a dumpster fire most people would be willing to let smaller canon complaints slide. But at the current rate that the star wars universe is being ruined by crappy shows and movies, the people that love star wars are holding on to every detail for dear life. They also haven’t added anything interesting or good to the canon in a while…so instead of building canon with good new stories, it comes across that they are just ruining the canon of older stories.

[@supoa9489]

Good points

[@aijalonrex4345]

I mean.... it doesnt make a lot of sense. Its fine but its a really odd choice. Why Mundi? Why is HE the cameo? Why does there need to be a cameo? Why risk the trouble when people are gonna tear it apart when they should be smart enough to see the dialogue in TPM? Nevermind his age, if theres a possibility that itll break canon, why do it? The showrunners are making no sense

[@datguy3581]

I assume it's because he is the one who points out the Sith have been gone for a long time. I think it's intentional. Either Mundi ends up believing Mae's master is a fallen Jedi of some sort or Vernestra orders him to cover up and he is being dishonest in TPM.

[@thetinestavenger9863]

@@datguy3581 It's not intentional. The writer just came out and said they went with Mundi because they couldn't use Yoda.

[@marin4767]

John Campea again putting himself on a pedestal above SW fans, great. You missed the part where a show writer revealed it was originally going to be yoda but he was not available, so they used mundi carelessly instead.

[@sambreyer7344]

Except they could’ve used Plo Koon, Yadl, etc. There were tons more that don’t contradict anything.

[@keikialanifrazee8892]

Agreed. The Show Writer even Talked about the Changes, it does paint every Fans proof of someone who don’t care about the show or its universe itself. It’s let’s write it anyway we’d like to? Even if it doesn’t matter or not. It’s Vince McMahon level B.S.? Where in the WWE matches & storylines? Don’t matter. Suddenly a bad guy vs good guy are on the same side. Not even acknowledging they just viciously hurt their family to get a match with them (cuz it builds a story). You get my drift? Matches didn’t matter and Vince for decades was shitting on the same fans who paid to see a good match with good drama, canon storylines invest the fans to see an epic showdown later. No matter how subtle the build up and timelines were. Every little thing matters to fandom in every IP. It doesn’t matter to other IP’s if it wasn’t any lore however. So they should say in the acolyte show? It’s part of Star Wars. But not canon. What’s so hard to saying it? Oh wait? It’s a way to get the fans in a gotcha moment in what they want. Not what fans want. To show our toxic fandom. Good Job Disney. Unintentionally not caring still are they? Unless it’s if you don’t like it, then they care. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@michaelpowers6551]

He’s a puppet how in the hell is he not available? I didn’t know puppets had rights or agents lol… or maybe he’s dead? lmao…

[@iiRolltide]

I’m not a big star wars fan so non of this really matters to me but I find it interesting that when John talks about the canon that was put in place by George, he prefaces it by saying “he can change it because he was the primary film maker” but I think fans are saying he can change it because he created the universe. Personally I think if you created the thing you can change it how you want but if you’re coming from the outside then you should follow what the created put in place.

[@JAF729]

Acolyte is garbage but I have to admit Star Wars fans are exhausting.

[@ScrotieMcBooger]

So your reasoning about it being bad is that people are complaining about shit nuggets on top of pile of shit. And we should be mad about only the big pile of shit, not the small turds. We can all agree its pretty bad. So when a thing you love has been bad over multiple movies and multiple shows, you point out the mistakes it makes. Imo, this lore is not throw away lore. Also his age is mentioned in other things such as topps card. I dunno how anyone can defend anything about this.

[@datguy3581]

Why should we care about stupid things like Insider's Guides or Topps cards? They shouldn't restrict what can or cannot be done in a Star Wars tv show. This is exactly the type of stuff that George Lucas always ignored. I'd rather have Mundi make a cameo that's cool then a stupid card from 20 years ago that most Star Wars fans will never see.

[@ScrotieMcBooger]

No one would care if Disney actually made something that wasn't ass.

[@lordofthebricks1]

I wouldn't be shocked if in episode 5 he actually says: I shouldn't be alive now, and I know about sith Just in case writers confirm they don't give a sh*t about canon or continuity if fans still didn't realise that...

[@PaulStarGuy]

I agree with your analysis presented here. To me, no canon has been broken in The Acolyte up to this point in the show. What I found most valuable in this segment was the definition of the various Star Wars canons, which I've never seen before. I intend to save this file for that reason alone. My only question is where do we fit the movies/shows that have been produced since Disney bought Lucasfilm ? As I recall, in those early years after the sale, Lucas wasn't very happy with the direction Disney was taking the franchise. Thanks again.

[@GHOSTKNIGHT8956]

No Disney Star Wars canon has been broken, which they can change anytime, because they own Star Wars.

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

He was a unnecessary addition that does nothing but raises questions

[@studior2962]

No it don’t

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

@@studior2962 ok so how come he didn't know about the sith?

[@robdiddy55]

​@@studior2962 great nuanced response. How about the fact it is inconsistent to lore.

[@thehacker4012]

Raise questions about what?

[@datguy3581]

@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord No character in the show currently believes there is a Sith at large. They think Mae's master is a rogue Jedi of some sort.

[@mykotron]

Well it seems like most people think the biggest problem with it is the Ki-Adi-Mundi controversy. Let's be real. If George Lucas decided to canonize Ki-Adi-Mundi as being alive during the high republic these people would all be super stoked.

[@noname-bk7bc]

I mean, maybe the question is why are Jedi so dumb in this era? I mean it's not like any Jedi are running around with Red Lightsabers

[@lordrayden3045]

Just like yoda and windu suck at their jobs…. No one ever brings that up

[@datguy3581]

There are plenty of dark siders who aren't Jedi. There are witches and fallen Jedi out there. Mundi believed it was a fallen Jedi that trained Mae in this most recent episode. There's also a chance that the Jedi will find out it's Sith but Vernestra will cover it up to not let the Senate know.

[@datguy3581]

@@lordrayden3045 Isn't that the point? The Jedi of this era let the Sith undermine them and outflank them and only acted once it was too late. That's the whole point of the prequels.

[@lordrayden3045]

@@datguy3581 That was my take away, The prequels showed the rot from within of the Jedi, specifically the council. The thought they had everything under control, and they were awesome, meanwhile they were so arrogant / stupid that the whole republic fell apart under their noses. Everyone thinks mace windu is this great powerful character….. hell no, he’s a worthless arrogant pr1ck who is bad at his job. He along with yoda can be squarely blamed for the downfall of the republic and rise of the empire

[@lordrayden3045]

@@datguy3581 Not even dark siders, just people who know and can use the force, It seems to me, across a whole universe in which this force exists, there would be many different cultures who all have their own understanding and knowledge of the force. Like the outer rim where the republic has no presence, are you telling me there are no force aware people out there? After someone figured it out they could / would teach and train others. Over time origin stores and rituals change, but the force remains. I’d imagine that’s how the force witches came to be. And there have to be other pockets out there doing the same thing.

[@sizzas4503]

I am a Ki-Adi-Mundi super fan he is my favourite Jedi, I have his action figure and other merch. The lore change is like a small thing for me the disappointing cherry on top. What really bothers me as someone saying they want original stories we get a cameo purposesly designed for fans. They try and give him pre-quel denier que card talking points about 'an apprentice who doesnt know her master absurd" I think it does more to detract from the story than anything else.

[@j_mobile206]

Damn, I legitimately feel bad for legit Star Wars fans. The mental gymnastics y’all gotta do to comprehend what is or isn’t canon, or different types of canon, is absolutely ridiculous.

[@andycalmes4201]

That list of canon was the old EU. Since Disney bought Lucasfilm everything they make is one canon. And Lucasfilm does not make Wookiepedia…it is constantly being updated and corrected.

[@OutofTheaterReviews]

Disney first killed the original trio one by one, then messed up with the obiwan show and now when trying to do something fresh, their messing that up to.. I have no anger. It’s just sad:(

[@HellBot-gi5si]

Yea, and who fault is it? Yours. You allowed this Monopoly to be created. Just like the Robber Barons of old with Andrew Carnegie with US Steel or J.P. Morgan in Wall Street banking they answer to know one, and there is no over sight over Kathleen Kennedy and Bog Iger at Disney. This why President Teddy Roosevelt ran a campaign on breaking up the Monopolies and big Trust. But Monopolies always destroy the market. Always!

[@jediryan9454]

Time to find another hobby.

[@yadonkno3320]

On black and white paper. You are technically right, but these are fair reasons to not like the episode and calling people who don't like it for these reasons stupid is stupid.

[@stul365]

In The Phantom Menace Qui Gon literally stands in front of the Jedi Council and says ‘Hey guys I just fought this mean looking dude with horns, dressed in a black robe and wielding a red lightsaber. I think he might be a Sith.’ and the Jedi Council are like ‘Nah, not a chance. They’ve been extinct for decades. I don’t think they could have returned without us knowing.’ So why would the Jedi even think this would Sith here when Maul ticked all the boxes and they still didn’t think he was Sith

[@andycalmes4201]

They look dumb to us because we have the advantage of seeing the Sith’s revenge play out. It’d be like if a person dressed as a Roman warrior was on a murder spree…would our leaders think, oh shit, Rome is rising again!

[@cloverraven]

Even if they had said “they are not Sith,” it doesn’t matter, bc Ki Adi is wrong. For the fourth time in TV and film. He’s just wrong about everything he’s 100% believed over and over.

[@shawn0989]

I understand your argument about it, not breaking cannon, but it’s also not realistic. Say he was around during this time he would’ve been what an infant or a toddler, maybe a teen his species lives to like 100 years max there’s no way to do a full-blown middle aged Jedi by this time …

[@TheRoyalFino]

His species previous assumed age is no longer canon either.

[@atari1994]

It was horrible BEFORE and AFTER his appearance.

[@martinsleight321]

There are people in the comments who clearly don't get the tiers of canon and just are still running forward with the fucking nonsense. 'Whatever John, they're changing it.' - Some guy who can't comprehend the system.

[@GHOSTKNIGHT8956]

Obviously, you don't understand how people find his reasoning...bad. The CD-ROM was put out by LucasArts (George Lucas Company) in 1999 as a companion to the movie to give more Indepth information about the movie. Reply

[@martinsleight321]

@@GHOSTKNIGHT8956 You're not grasping it dude - unless George made it, in the movie, on screen, or if it's on TV, it's secondary and is essentially filler/holder until they decide otherwise. George didn't make that CD-ROM, it's just merch. It's not a big deal, no matter how you look at it. It's horrific how easy these 'fans' are to upset. It's as if they never loved it to begin with.

[@robertsatterfield7226]

People shouldn't be manufacturing reasons why it sucks because it sucks on its own merits.

[@leonardetuk593]

Fair enough John, but if the movies are the highest canon, and Mundi states the Sith haven’t been seen in 1000 years, then…the timeline he stated in Episode 1 is canon. Dressed in black, red saber is too close to Sith. I guess time will tell

[@johncampea]

He was wrong... the rest of the Jedi Council in Phantom Menace all dismissed the idea that Maul was a Sith too. But we (the audience) know they were actually around the whole time.

[@cesaracosta5483]

@@johncampeaThey dismissed that idea until the ending of the film after Qui gons death when both mace windu and Yoda asked who was killed? The master or the apprentice.

[@leonardetuk593]

@@johncampea again, fair point. Let’s see if this show calls whatever this master is a Sith. If they don’t, I guess it can sort of be explained away. Still, seems too close to Sith and Mundi knowing this just seems to close to the established movie canon for the showrunner to do this. Ill-advised IMO knowing the state of Star Wars currently. Great debate! Thanks

[@nicholasreeves2871]

People honestly are mad because it just proves how much the makers of the show don’t even know star wars

[@atari1994]

... and lastly... everyone uses Wookiepedia for canon.... they are the ones that had it there.

[@michaeljoynson2053]

They quite clearly say splinter order, jedi "or something worse" thats heavily implying Sith. Lets not be silly about this

[@SuperJumper40]

John is right about the age. That was never canon and it's not a bad thing that it was changed. But on the second point, you have to be ignorant not to recognize the mistake. Okay, "Sith" may not have been mentioned as a word yet. But the character draws a red lightsaber at the end of the episode. With the reveal, the series can hardly end with Ki Adi Mundi realizing "Must have been just another Jedi." Red lightsabers are the first distinguishing feature of the Sith. How did Qui-Gon Jinn come up with the idea that Darth Maul could be a Sith?

[@petrikallio2485]

Yeah nothing to worry about even when an unknown force user is force pushing 8 jedi's and some are even masters, so we (the jedi) can such ignore all evidence about dark force rising and not do anything about it is just stupid writing

[@datguy3581]

Well there are a few strong possibilities. One is that Vernestra orders Sol and the other Jedi on the mission to not speak about their encounter and cover it up. The other is that this new adversary isn't a real Sith and just a minor dark side user of some sort. The third is that Ki-Adi-Mundi isn't being completely truthful in Phantom Menace. If he was ordered to keep it a secret, he may be covering for himself. This would fit with Ki-Adi's characterization in Phantom Menace because he represents the old, stuck in their ways Jedi who are unable to see the looming threat that is about to overtake the Jedi. Either way, it's way too early to say it breaks canon.

[@petrikallio2485]

@@datguy3581 None of those are valid reasons or even a good writing from a story perspective

[@MrStarvingwriter]

Cereans used to have relatively short life spans compared to humans. But now because Leslye Headland wanted to drop a cool cameo of Ki Adi Mundi in her silly fanfic show, Cereans can live over 100 years now. It's dumb but that's Star Wars nowadays

[@robd72uk]

Someone needs to play this video to star wars theory lol

[@DannsProductions]

I put a comment underneath his recent video to react to it...

[@datguy3581]

I'm sure he'll cry about it

[@ibegyoushuuup]

Was also on a topps card, which was a tie in with phantom menace

[@drewhuber7391]

Not sure what is worse, the last episode of The Acolyte or John's take on this. This show is the death knell for Star Wars. It's a bad guy in a mask with a red lightsaber... call it whatever you want, it's a Sith. Having to navigate the 17 layers of Star Wars Canon to defend the stupid decision to have a character resurrected just to do nothing in the show. It's all crap.

[@theknifestalker8395]

Bro. There have been several characters in Star Wars lore that have wielded red lightsabers that weren't Sith. Ventress, Savage, The Inquisitors, Kylo etc. They were either just subordinates for the Sith themselves or they just followed the Dark Side. They never adopted the Sith Code

[@DannsProductions]

@@sebganske1992 he wants those Disney points

[@drewhuber7391]

@@theknifestalker8395 lol... you're missing the overall point. It's a way to show a sith without showing a sith. To the Jedi, they are all dark-side force wielding baddies. To Ki-Adi-Mundi, this would be a sith-like baddie and if there are sith-like baddies running around, he wouldn't say what he said in TPM... lol. They all serve the dark side and all that non-sense was extinct for a millennia. You can try to find logic, but it's dumb as hell.

[@chancylvania]

@@DannsProductionsyes I’m sure the guy bashing the show consistently is worried about “Disney brownie points.”

[@theknifestalker8395]

@drewhuber7391 Well to be fair we just haven't seen the full picture of the show yet. We're only at the halfway point. I'm sure there will be something that will help tie this gap. But Ki Adi Mundi is really only bringing up the Sith because Qui Gon suspected they had returned. It's possible Qui Gon didn't know of rogue Dark Siders especially if there was no conflict between Acolyte and Phantom Menace. It's possible he only knew of the Sith and he correctly suspected Maul was one. Qui Gon was one of the only Jedi that wasn't fucking blind to everything

[@darthbishop4543]

G- cannon, S- cannon, Nick cannon, it doesn’t matter. They are fucking up this franchise and we are just sick of it. Period.

[@lordrayden3045]

Gonna cry more?

[@lordrayden3045]

@@a-atheist I don’t care, I don’t feel entitled to have everything the way I want it. It’s a show, it’s fine. I’m not going to whine about it, then bitch and moan about how things should be, then cry about Disney after that

[@duncanidaho4565]

Ki-Adi-Mundi is very forgetful ever since he was struck by a force rock in the center of his giant forehead and he got CTE - solved!

[@ethanrobinson3288]

I mean, putting on a red hat and robes doesn’t make me a cardinal. Using a red light-saber and a black cloak doesn’t automatically mean someone is a Sith. As Dooku said in clone wars “…these things can be imitated”.

[@austintrousdale2397]

In other words…a LARP’er 😱🫣😁

[@Lou_Chandler]

I owned that TPM Insiders Guide and let me tell you back in 1999 that was god-tier level

[@McDirtyMcDan]

I just think his cameo was unnecessary

[@willfilmon182]

they have to create an excuse for him later saying the sith hadn't been seen in a thousand years

[@fernknowsbeststudios7964]

Not gonna lie, all these levels of canon made me lose it!😂😂

[@shadowphoenix6237]

I truly like the breakdown of the different levels of canon. The reason why is not that you proved Mundi's age was not detailed in G level canon. Instead, by proving that his age is not g level lore, you have also proven that everything Disney has been involved in is also just as irrelevant when it comes to G canon lore. This means that Lucas himself can come in and either give his stamp of approval or retcon it all at his whim.

[@nathanmyers227]

True. But since George doesn't own star wars anymore Disney has free reign to do what they want to G level cannon. Now if he ever owns it again he could snap his fingers and set all things right again. But that's not likely to happen

[@shadowphoenix6237]

@@nathanmyers227 Sure. From a business perspective, they can do whatever they want. I just like the irony within the lore argument.

[@Christian_Reborn]

Let’s say you’re right. The second part about Sith…we’ll have to see how the rest of the show plays out. As far as Ki-Adi’s age. It’s pretty well established in lore that his species has about the same lifespan as humans. Which would make him ridiculously old in TPM (140-ish). But even aside from all that, they KNEW putting him in this would rile up people. This whole show is a big F U to the fans.

[@johncampea]

I agree that having him in there was pointless and served no purpose other than to say "look guys! remember him?!?!"

[@abedraves4467]

It makes his Death in Revenge of the sith more sad. He probley should of used his 401k and retired. Atleast Yoda could sense he was going to get attacked.

[@MrMysterio73]

Hey John thanks for the objectivity. Yes its a terrible show IMO, but we don’t need to make things up to show our disappointment or grab on to nonsensical elements

[@rermn8292]

John, by your logic, then continuity of characters doesn't mean much and we can have han solo drinking a beer with IG88 as his body guard. It doesn't matter much.

[@nameofcrispy]

Original trilogy said Jedis were the guardians for over a thousand generations and the prequels said a thousand years. In the end of the day, fuck canon, just give us something good.

[@Prophatcy78]

Why do you have to go after a part of the fan base that cares about lore. You’re in agreement the show sucks too but you have to say part of the fan bases reasons are stupider than your reasons. They’re just opinions man. Get over yourself

[@atari1994]

THe damn showrunner said this was a show about the Sith.

[@SerginhoPMoura]

But this entire series is stupid and laughable, that's the problem.

[@SerginhoPMoura]

@@DooodOfLifeit's easy to make a show that don't piss the fans. Just follow the canon. Easy peasy. But these creators are just too arrogant and self centered to follow the lore. They want to subvert. But they are not very smart or careful. And the result is what we are seeing.

[@CRYSTAL_CUSTOMS]

Your right but for the wrong reasons 1. According to the star wars book A New Dawn, Dave Filoni has a paragraph at the start where he talls about how finally everything is gonna be 1 canon 2. When Disney announced the de-canonization of the Legends continuity in 2014 they announced everything going forward would be the same level of canon 3. That Star Wars Insider with Ki-Adi Mundi's birth is from 1999, so before canon so he didnt have a birth yet in canon

[@GHOSTKNIGHT8956]

You are right, everything Disney is not canon. That is why it is now Disney Star Wars.

[@GHOSTKNIGHT8956]

Well now it is Disney Star Wars Canon. 🙂

[@Oreozz901]

HI im john campea and only i can be correct on why an episode is bad. John your taking 1 thing people have said and are saying its the only thing people are saying which isnt true and you know it. Everyone, every podcast, ever twitter user ever youtuber has brought up mulitple reasons why the episode sucked and Mundi was only one of them.

[@darthkso3745]

Sorry, that is not the only place where is birth date was mentioned.

[@eagc7]

But was that established in a Disney produced content? because if it didn't came from the Disney stuff, then its not canon, as Disney only considers what is in the first 6 movies and Clone Wars as the only canon stuff from the Lucas Era and neither one established his age. tie in material may had, but that doesn't count for Disney.

[@Lou_Chandler]

They may have previously implied she was trained by a Jedi - until - they come face to face with Darth Smile dressed in black and wielding a red lightsaber. You've gone off early Jaaaaaarhn

[@johncampea]

Ummmm... you do remember that Qui-Gon came fact to face with Maul in Phantom Menace and the Jedi Council still didn't believe he was Sith. You do remember that RIGHT????

[@Lou_Chandler]

@@johncampea absolutely my good friend! However, Qui-Gon, having come face to face with Maul, knew enough to conclude he was a Sith and reported it to the Council. In fact, the Council never outright deny his claim but instead just dance around the subject of the Sith returning. The only way this plays out is if all those Jedi on Khofar meet their end and news of a mysterious darkside force wielder in black using a red lightsaber never gets back to Coruscant.

[@ChaseGnos]

If I can’t watch all the movies and shows in timeline order without it being a mess than it is broken period. The addition of Ki-Adi-Mundi makes it messy. Him knowing that two girls were born of the force when we know later Qui Gon brings Anakin claiming he is the chosen one because of the same reason is messy. Same as Palpatine somehow surviving makes things messy.

[@TheRoyalFino]

The kids don't even seem to know they were born of the force, never mind the Jedi.

[@kacinema96]

I haven’t watched TPM in a while, but I think Qui-Gon had more reasons to suspect he was the chosen one beyond just the immaculate conception. Not to mention, the implication is that the lead witch created them, whereas Anakin was likely created by the Force itself.

[@joshavila5024]

The Jedi being too stupid to consider the “Sith” when dealing with a Jedi assassin with Jedi like training is not a good explanation. While John may be technically correct, it unfortunately requires terrible writing that makes the Jedi unlikable and stupid. This is why people are hating this detail of Ki Adi Mundi being written into the story so much.

[@michaelbell6894]

I concur; whenever you have to justify a plot point with "character did something dumb", it's poor writing.

[@oscarortiz1529]

Im sure John would agree with this take too. Disney is well within their right to change some canon but doing it in a sloppy and unnecessary way will win them no favors.

[@lordrayden3045]

No, Jedi being stupid is perfectly in line for the run up to episode 1 It actually blends perfectly with all those idiots we witnessed on the Jedi council, most notably windu and yoda

[@lordrayden3045]

@@a-atheist They were idiots Did you even watch episodes 1-3? The Jedi in this series, match up perfectly with them, they were oblivious to everything going on around them, they had no idea what was going on, Their stupidity directly led to the fall of the republic and the rise of the empire

[@kurtschaaf2165]

God forbid Star Wars fans want a semi consistent cannon and story and not just pointlessly adding characters for fan fare

[@BEN__JAMIN]

I can’t believe in order to have a consistent canon I can no longer load up my 25 year old bonus material CD-ROM. It was my favorite piece of Star Wars content. Essential reading every time I do a rewatch.

[@djfunkgut]

All off Star Wars steps on the toes of past movies .. Star Wars “canon” is a suggestion

[@kurtschaaf2165]

@@djfunkgut it should only be that way if it has a purpose which adding him was pointless and doesn’t serve to make the project better

[@redheadnerd96]

Someone please show this to Star Wars Theory 😂. I love when John does his homework

[@josephkushner7193]

So then he being in this ruins the show. Because if he says that 100 years later than we know that the show can’t have a sith in it. So him being in it aids to how horrendous the show is.

[@johncampea]

What you said made no sense. Ki-Adi-Mundi didn't think the Sith exists in Acolyte, and he (and the rest of the Jedi Council) don't think the Sith exists in Phantom Menace either. So what's your point?

[@loststoryproductions]

Soooo basically you should just watch the movies if you want cannon. Alright bet.