The Last Hope For MMORPGs | Asmongold Reacts

Ashes of Creation hype Ashes of Creation hype
by @TheLazyPeon • Ashes Of Creation: The...
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[@zepwafels]

I think one huge component of whats missing is the time MMOs were set in. Social media wasnt really big back in the 2000s compared to today, so for gamers, MMOs were THE social media to consume. And that is the magic that cannot be captured again. The magic is literally the context of time. The dawn of the internet, its Wild West era. the 90s and 2000s. And that is gone forever.

[@andrewm6788]

quest helpers also suck

[@mathewlees5587]

Yup, nailed it. I disagree that its gone, but the market is milking the people that discovered social media.

[@MegamanNBA1]

Completely agree. My whole family used to play Classic wow back then and I wouldn't consider any of them gamers.

[@elnaimed8395]

Not quite agreed. We used to use mIRC chatting and vBulletin's forums back in the day there were huge communities, but non of this MMORPG games could exist without Ultima Online (1997), when Ultima Online: The Second Age came out back in 1998, it changed all the MMO rules (games like Meridian 59, The Realm Online, were old by then). WoW came later... years later, with all the happy carebears (a.k.a. pve players).

[@Nimyra]

Nah, make another Everquest, insane PVE insane invorenment in D&D style and let people fucking twink, its gg, everything is carebear pve now, so forced and structured and themeparked.

[@TheHorreK2]

just lets be honest, MMORPG as well as RTS are basically genres on hybernation. Not dead, but not really alive either. Just kinda living on the games that came out decades ago.

[@smokedbeefandcheese4144]

crpgs were like this until recently

[@ExireMN]

The Riftbreaker as a PvE RTS is incredible.

[@RemixSSBM]

mmorpgs have so many massive issues that just don't work in the modern day

[@oo1234561000]

@@smokedbeefandcheese4144 what are crpgs? and can you recommend me a good example?

[@ARSP33LS]

@@oo1234561000 Baldurs Gate 3

[@BlackGold-fc7tu]

The problem with mmos these days are all this Early Access.. people get bored before the game is complete and fully released. Mmos used to be a full game before 99.9% of people could play it or see it on KZbin ... when UO or WoW was getting released we really had to idea what to except going in

[@jakenake3401]

you are 100% right but also we don't get many good mmo's now, name at least good mmo in decade other then archage ? and even archage was mid, new world felt like fever dream, game was trash at every level possible, thrones & liberty is only good looking mmo coming in last 2 decades, black desert but was absolute garbage

[@bens4441]

100% - I can experience a full game without paying anything by watching a content creator play it. I can start a game off knowing the optimal leveling path just by watching a KZbin video a few weeks (days even) into its launch. For a lot of games, I can just pay $5 and have a huge boost over someone who didn't pay $5. I think Asmon is right that whatever the next big MMORPG is it's because it has a completely different feel/core game than what we're used to.

[@karserasl]

100% this.. By the time the game comes out, its "solved". We gonna have 100s different guides, best leveling paths, best builds for dps, best farming etc etc. The mmos now are not even games anymore. They are walkthroughs of guides online

[@bt70a9]

Not even close - early access has nothing to do with a game being bad or good. Good game = players will play.

[@Dolo888]

Honestly think that is the least of the problems since mmos are the most friendly towards adding content and expansions.

[@grantmang]

The thing that was so cool to me in 2004 with WoW was I was able to interact with all the buildings and zones and characters that I knew from Warcraft 3. Having that knowledge of the story and just the awesome settings and similar art style was the biggest engagement factor. I was 24 at the time and had no kids so that helped too :)

[@salinaember9527]

yes. an mmo needs source material to really make it big.

[@ryansmith2772]

Everyone is excited for something good, then they get disappointed when they figure out what they are getting

[@wizzard757]

this is a quote for generations

[@PhoenixEnjoyer]

Everyone is *about DONE* constantly getting the piss taken on, though ... ... 😉 ... ... and WoW will get a nice Surprise i hope, when Ashes of Creation finally enters the Stage.

[@fendercodes]

I think ultimately with MMOs everyone is excited for something that cannot actually exist in a game. A sense of purpose, belonging to something greater than yourself, social connection, bravery and strength. That's called a real life.

[@jacobhoffman2553]

@@PhoenixEnjoyer the chances that this is going To be the golden child after more than ten years of worsening flop trend in the industry is absurd.... the insanity isn't in the development cycle either.... their goal is to make money.... the insanity is in the consumer habits..... there isn't really a pretty way to say it either but if developers keep making more and more money for worse and worse quality products they are not going To make a good game that costs more money to make and brings in less profit... its a sign of collapse.... it'll continue until there is an extreme intervention... could be in the form of new laws and jail tbh or it could be form of actual violent riots... ive seen developers really push the line on inciting a mob of nerds several times in recent years lol

[@Katniss0000]

Overwatch gameplay could be the future of mmorpg. (Tank reinhardt, dps hanzo/genji, healer/support mercy). In a medieval fantasy fighting goblins, dragons, orcs. Maybe too expensive for a open world.

[@RMartian76]

If Ashes is the "last hope" then I'll start digging the grave for MMOs. XD AoC will not remotely live up to the hype.

[@_Aynix]

It will for 40 years old boomers who yearn for "good old MMO" they played 20 years ago

[@TheDerpySquidOfTheUk]

Unrealistic expectations is definitely a concern for me; I doubt a lot of folks will enjoy losing experience on death etc when push comes to shove.

[@Dead_Goat]

@@_Aynix nope. Its open world pvp. The game will die in a month, just like every other open world pvp game.

[@Xxav88]

@@Dead_Goatlol so dumb

[@valerius9751]

yeah it's way too overhyped like cyberpunk was. gonna be a huge letdown when it releases

[@DeSinc]

world of warcraft was so big that peoples parents started picking up and playing the game after hearing so much about it from news media and TV advertisements blasting about it every day even when it was only at 1 million subscribers. then it went 10 times bigger than that

[@bt70a9]

Bro my dad showed me wow, i was sold immediately - i was only 10 years old though. It really DID gap generations, it was super impressive.

[@Gulatzo]

But you still couldn't prop jump wooden pallets in WoW. 3/10

[@Dragon_Slayer_Ornstein]

I think the biggest barrier to MMO advancing is not graphics of cpu power, it's actually networking and network code. What people want is the single player experience but massive. You are getting into problems on the server side dealing with all the connections and trying to process that in sync with every player and having something that does not look and play like crap. It's always been a problem and nobody has solved it, perhaps it will never be solved. Latency really does kill the immersion. Perhaps when everyone gets fibre to the home and people start using those new techniques to get orders of magnitudes more throughput down the same cables things might start to improve. As for quantum computing, that's not really a thing for home use. It also requires a totally different way of programming, you can't really run normal computer code on a quantum computer, it's meant for highly optimised specific calculations. Now there is some fun work being done with optical analogue computers, but that's more aimed at the AI side of things, you can do a massive amount of parallel computation using optics and lasers, that's the one to look out for.

[@bt70a9]

Yeah, you just repeated Zacks opinion, and spun it off as your own..

[@sleakseal2133]

I feel like asmon is missing the whole point of AoC he's seeing it as the next game that's going to save mmos and its trying to be the next world of warcraft classic but that's not what AoC is going for Steven at the very start of the project clearly stated what his goal was he was a former lineage 2 player and a archeage player he was frustrated with archeage because of how it was managed and wanted to make his own lineage 2 archeage experience That's the entire point of it sure he would love to have wow classic success but it's very clear from their demonstrations that they are not referencing classic wow when it comes to world and classes and combat quests and exploring etc it's all very clearly inspired by lineage 2 I'm a former lineage 2 player as well and whenever I see the combat of AoC while it still not the exact same its Very similar that's almost making me nostalgic and that's the entire purpose of AoC Like if asmongold is expecting it to have the fluidity of wow classic combat he's just gonna be massively disappointed because that's not what Steven is going for whether that's a good approach or not is based on your opinion of course but I feel like he needs to know this if he doesn't want to get disappointed by AoC

[@JerDog1984]

Plus Archeage naval gameplay was top tier, but I don't think asmon played it so he doesn't know anything other than Valheim to compare too

[@NeDixTV]

the problem of asmon, he only played WoW until like 2-3 years ago, and all his opinions are based on all other mmorpg he never touched are trash because he never played them because everyone was playing WoW, he doesnt have any idea how they felt to play etc, yes the overall package WoW maybe was better, but other game has things better than wow. For example, archeage had the best Tab target gameplay ever, no one who played archeage will deny this. Lineage 2 for me was the best openworld guild/clan experience, almost no instance until Interlude Blade and Soul is other example of one of the best action gameplay mmorpg, again he never played it. I am sure Steven went from L2 to AA and though man this feel like lineage 3, but the faction shit ruined the servers and for me AA die because of the faction system not only the P2W, FACTION SYSTEM IS A MISTAKE ON MMORPG, just stick to clans like lineage 2, if all the server hold hands is their problem but not force players to play the game the way u want it never works. All the gameplay i have seen of AoC is literally archeage gameplay + L2 system. The biggest enemy of AoC will be the players itself, it will have the hardcore players of AA and L2 and maybe BDO too, the ones the moto is win no matter what. And if the game has dailies, honestly fck dailies. Btw also, if having multiple account will give advantage on AoC, expect hardcore to have multiple accounts even if its sub based.

[@sleakseal2133]

@@NeDixTV exactly! Which is why I'm 100% sure asmon will not like ashes of creation nor will 90% of his community its gonna be a niche game for a niche audience but they're expecting it to be modern day classic wow which was like asmon said in the video compared to other games was called a "baby mmo" Now I'm sure if asmon sees this comment he will say well this design philosophy is garbage and the game will fail well yes it will fail if you think it wants to get the general audience attention It will succeed however in the goal its trying to achieve which is attracting the other Steven's out in the world looking for lineage 3 or archeage 2 experience that they thought will never happen THOSE people are gonna fucking LOVE this game Lineage 2 to this day has a lot of private servers which high player base across the world because there's just not that many games like it even if the graphics are trash even if the combat is not fluid even if you can't even jump or have mounts in the game it's still FUN to play and people still loved it

[@NeDixTV]

@@sleakseal2133 L2 with privates server has more playerbase than new world and maybe Lost ark global. I realized of this weekend.

[@sleakseal2133]

@@NeDixTV yeah it's absolutely insane Also the classes like some would look at it and say wow this looks bad but it really feels different when you PLAY it not watch For example playing a stormscreamer in high five was the most fun I've ever had in my life when I started wow I immediately made a mage because I thought it would be similar to that experience but damn the mage class in wow at least in the classic trilogy has to be the most boring casting class ever like holy shit the disappointment that I felt that time almost made me quit wow thankfully I just re rolled to warrior and it was a bit better experience than mage but yeah you can never convince me that wow combat is superior to lineage 2 especially high five when the gameplay in L2 just felt way more fast paced than any classic trilogy wow combat

[@AvanCade]

I wonder when Asmon wil realise that his opinion on WoW is based on nostalgia. He hypes it up so high that other games in that era might just as well have been picture books.

[@Porter302007]

When WoW came out it wasn't a great game. It was OK, but wasn't anything special... WoW needed Origin to sh!t the bed by selling to EA. When EA took the lead on Ultima Online they destroyed the game and everyone quit and moved to WoW.

[@yous2244]

Absolutely not, you're just in denial, he's basing it on facts. Just look at the statistics, those tell the truth

[@douglasnevins1598]

I think it was insanely popular culturally, but comparing it to minecraft is wiiilld. You can even do what he said and do a Google trends search and minecraft blows it out of the water

[@AvanCade]

@@yous2244 Please show me the statistics that animations fluidity of WoW was years a head of the competition.

[@AvanCade]

@@douglasnevins1598 I'm not doubting popularity but popularity does not equal quality. And he refers to it several times that it was years ahead of any other game.

[@jeanschyso]

On the low visibility thing, I think the best example of a good ass low vis map has got to be Helldivers 2. When you can't see shit and get constantly attacked by chargers until you find high ground to spot the smoke shrooms, it's like you're really down there getting mauled to death by an alien species.

[@HoracioRVL]

The feeling of reaching high ground after surviving hell down there in the fog it's amazing

[@jeanschyso]

@@HoracioRVL and then you call in an expandable, shoot the shroom from half the map away and clear the way to the objective. It is SO good.

[@ithelan]

Low vis vs bots, literally walking right up to them because they're entirely reliant on sight, is both amazing and terrifying. When you scout them first and go full stealth ambush, or you're legging it away from one group and run head first into another because you couldn't see them

[@urwayout]

Why does everyone just refuse to remember Archeage boat creation, trade packs, flagging pvp on your own faction, open world pvp, pirate ship battles, trade ships etc.

[@notYisan]

because archeage died despite having those features. a game too advanced and ambitious for the time.

[@tsrprebirth9139]

@@notYisan That's not why it died... lol. It was P2W, but the features were amazing, way more exciting than WoW. Asmon never played a unique mmo, he's only played the mcdonald equivalent of mmo's

[@chiffa37]

​@@tsrprebirth9139 well said

[@kokocaptainqc]

personally? having to spend energy or whatever to open loot bags...thats why i said F this crap

[@MaxD-lp9rw]

It died because of poor publisher decisions and P2W. Everything else was amazing

[@jackjazzhands2357]

I saw Wildstar... *sniff* I miss Wildstar :

[@Giliver]

I genuinely don't understand why they haven't brought WildStar back, it only needed some tweaking and additional content and it would've been a major hit. Hell even with its problems it was my personal favorite MMO.

[@MrOskiee]

Besides archeage, wildstar is my biggest mmo let down. Such incredible potential that just fell flat 😢

[@liebkraft9950]

@@Giliver they brought it back as a free2play game and it failed unfortunately. i think they need to completely rebuild the mmo structure for the game to work nowadays.

[@Navhkrin]

@@Giliver WildStar had good chance to be one of popular MMO's. Definitely not big-hit potential but it didn't need to die. It could have taken its place among ESO, BDO etc.

[@Nownadda]

Bro Wildstar was so damn fun. The aesthetic and gameplay were so good. If SWOTR, elder scrolls online, and guild wars are still alive then it should be to. I’d love for someone to buy it and continue to build onto it more. The issue was the development and company was toxic as fuck.

[@hupenpeter]

For me a big reason a new mmorpg will be hard to establish is the world it will play in. Without the Warcraft universe and especially WC3 WoW wouldn't be what it is now. MMORPGs without an establish world have it very hard to establish a hype early on and often end in obscurity before the get their footing. A pre established universe can help a lot, but of course the game has to be great to get your money.

[@ghostshadow9899]

What a bs, most mmo players don’t care much about the story. Its game play, social interaction, raids and end game content

[@ghostshadow9899]

And it shouldn’t be p2w

[@hupenpeter]

@@ghostshadow9899 different people, different approaches. For me and my friends gameplay is extremely important, but a RPG without a cool world and a good story with memorable characters will hold our attention. If all this is not important to you, that's fine. We all tend to play story heavy games. So my approach doesn't fit everybody off course, but for the people I pay with, the need for a great world is big. I think there is a distinct difference between MMO and MMORPG, but maybe it's only me.

[@alexwheatley541]

The caravan system sounds really cool, but the rewards for stealing someone else’s cargo being “sell me” tokens is immersion breaking and not exciting. It should be 100% materials, weapons, whatever, and the caravan should be a necessary part of the crafting ecosystem. Imagine destroying a caravan full of cargo a guild really needed to ship to xyz city to finish the final step in a crafting chain and convincing them to buy it back at double price. Those are the kind of moments you remember in games.

[@bt70a9]

It's a proof of concept

[@ikiwheese]

I think MMO's are overlooking the biggest issue. Your game is not catering to casuals. This is why ff14 was so successful. Easy to understand. Good story. Gameplay is not hard. There is something for everyone. Mechanics are not ridiculously hard to figure out and have visual ques. You can make your character beautiful and do things inside the game besides questing/pvp/raids/dungeons etc. It needs to be basic. No ridiculous hard and long quests. Do everything the opposite of what blizzard has done. No borrowed power bs. Let all classes use gear interchangeably. Don't force pvp. It has it's own mode in ff14 and uses totally diff abilities. Don't force the store down our throats. Put cool shit in game and you can buy other things in the store. It's really that simple and games are just not doing this. You are not appealing to casuals. Hardcore players are a very minor portion of your players. Make it simple and fun.

[@alessiofe]

i don't want to play with people that enjoy ff14. that's literally animal crossing with swords and pedos.

[@huntrokilla]

So sad asmon keeps shitting on gw and gw2 and refuses to try it when every other big mmo KZbinr tried it and loved it for what it is

[@eds7343]

I preferred GW2 over WoW.

[@iamdickel8574]

i played GW and GW2 on their release, i admit they are good and open world and exploration is better than any MMO out there, its not a grind fest game until you reach the max level

[@Iniak.]

GW2 is a gem and any MMORPG fan who hasn't given it a chance is missing out.

[@retiredbritphilippines4722]

Classic line “But you can’t jump in GW” lol

[@yivo9996]

@@iamdickel8574 GW is one of my favorite games of all time, but it didnt have an open world. Everything was instanced.

[@z2six]

The only moment MMORPG's will get an insane surge like we saw in the early 2000's is when VR technology becomes so advanced that we'll get experiences like Sword Art Online. If that ever happens in our lifetime.. oh boy, you can bet on MMORPG's becoming the most popular genre by far.

[@jesperjohansson6959]

If we're speculating about technology, no, I don't think so. At that point it'll be impossible to tell who's not using AI to play for them, which will ruin MMOs since you'll never know whether you're having an authentic social interaction.

[@lagtastic7511]

@@jesperjohansson6959White lists exist, and you will have counter AI's being used to detect AI usage. And its not even that hard when you get to that level of technology we are talking about. A humans reactions will vary, there will be detectable differences outside of ping for response times. Along with vital information being monitored, brain waves, heart rate, blood pressure etc. Would someone be able to hack it and fake it, I'm sure someone would. But you would be using a huge amount of resources to fake all that to play the game for you. Which again goes back to the whole white list thing. Where you would be playing with people that you trust to not do all the faking. And then even if someone is faking it, i would have to be faked to the human reaction level. Where that is not the case with current aim bots and the like. So even the hackers would HAVE to play at the average human level or risk being busted.

[@MeltonCrest]

@@jesperjohansson6959 If you can't tell that it's an AI then it is as authentic as it gets.

[@ChezMclegend]

Go outside, you can start today. Grow a garden :)

[@SirZipper]

I was 14 when I first watched SAO and remember how demoralized I was after doing the research and realizing the technology isn't something we'll ever see in our lifetime.

[@stickyrubb]

I don't understand why a game "has to have" the same playernumbers as WoW did to be the next best MMO. If Ashes of Creation is a better MMO than what we have right now, we can enjoy a new and fun game together.

[@thekurtrussell4007]

Its just so you get that MMO feel

[@gerryw173ify]

@@thekurtrussell4007 You don't need WoW numbers to have enough players to get the MMO feel.

[@Fantasyze]

I was going to explain it to you but I didn't want to type an essay. But you could have the best MMO of all time, perfect systems, story by Tolkein himself, crisp gameplay and graphics etc. but if it has No players, the game is boring. MMOs depend on their playerbase for the "end game content". If the player base is non existent or quits when they reach end game, the mmo dies. It is what it is. WoW found the sweet spot to keep players invested, keep them playing the game even when they reach max level, motivate new players to grind and reach end game, etc etc. If a modern MMO hits the sweet spot like WoW did, and maybe that goalpost has moved and is a lot harder to reach now, then it will automatically have more players than WoW. WoW players are also ready to quit and play something better. But something better does not exist for them.

[@jesperjohansson6959]

@@thekurtrussell4007 All I need is one populated server to get that feel

[@stickyrubb]

@@Fantasyze Just like Gerry said, you don't need WoW numbers to get the MMO feel. A server in Ashes of Creation has a maximum capacity of 50K players. You can fill 60 servers if all of their 3 million registered players join the game. Around 150 to 200K people paid handsomely to participate in their Alpha 2, the interest is there my guy.

[@Omili]

About the looting, I think best compromise would be that you need to manually loot items (every corpse) but the amount of mobs you kill at once should be just around 1-3 (no stupid crazy aoe farming retail WoW has). But same time also have a "identifying" skill that collects all money and resources that are not materials for crafting and shows what each enemy has as a loot items above their corpses for a moment so if you can spot that interesting 2h sword that has purple quality, you ofc wanna go check that body while ignoring the junk items/corpses without loot. And that identifying skill should be something you mostly use to just quickly get the money/non crafting resources and check if the body has anything valuable without needing to be animation locked over the corpse. And that way it would also keep some fantasy elements alive compared to that you just run next to corpse and aoe loot everything instantly without any animations. Also to make the junk loot more interesting, all of it should be mostly worthless but have interesting small "stories" like finding some random poe, ring with engraving, shoe with patched hole and the patch is made of valuable looking shining leather of rare animal. And all those items have "random" NPC in the world who would like to buy the item with for different reasons but the item+NPC combination is random and there is no way of knowing who would like to buy the item. But there could be achievement to sell each junk item to the correct customer to unlock some random cool title or vanity items. Basically "Insane" achi to do but those who want to do it can work towards it. That way the junk items are useless and useful same time. So people can just ignore looting everything or loot everything for the flavor texts and random funny lore or work towards achievements/challenged etc. Big problem with nowadays games is that they tend to be too ADHD button smashers and have zero sense. MMORPG is at it's best when the world have tons of weird, quirky and pointless items, locations, objects, quests and so on. Combat should be slow and require thinking. Player should feel fear of losing against enemies. Reason why soulslike games are so liked is because every enemy is a challenge. You can have crazy good gear and random forest mushroom kicks you off cliff because you were too cocky to fight it near one. Vanilla/classic WoW kinda has this and that's why the combat just feels so good even tho it is very slow. Every aoe farming mage knows that it is adrenaline rush when suddenly mob resists your frost nova. You actually have to think how to handle the situation... meanwhile in retail you are god against everything else except when devs have decided that you cannot kill something alone because it has a golden dragon in it's profile picture.

[@KingOfHeartsTANK]

Ragnarok online is still my favorite MMO, because of the feeling of exploration and discovery you had in that game was unparalleled. I've never been more immersed in the community than with Ragnarok when it was still good.

[@plasmask8]

I still can hear poring sounds n chon chon diyng sound...

[@fuselit2860]

the willows, the sounds of the dagger hitting willows and peco peco still rings in me ears to this day...

[@LarkanElRegresado]

Also, unless specific solo builds, it was basically impossible to level efficiently without a party, mobs hit hard, you could NOT facetank a mob as a mage class. That brought people together as well. And clan pvp (woe) was the game's endgoal, which was very fun because it was organized pvp, which is something very difficult to run out of.

[@Magemaster55]

Was RO your first MMO?

[@nakano15]

"when it was still good" This part... It's interesting to see people talk about Ragnarok Online being good in the past tense whenever it's mentioned, even though the game is still up, running and being updated. I don't disagree btw.

[@capnfapn]

guild wars 1 was an incredible game despite not being able to jump. the game was super deep and made a ton of ballsy design decisions that other online rpgs should've learned more from.

[@HaydenMercado-nb6it]

I spent most of highschool on this gem loved it

[@iller3]

I guarantee IF asmon even "played it", he essentially stepped into the arena one time, DIDN'T READ any of his skills, and then rage quit after getting his shid push in up past his neck

[@burnhart]

i loved the skill system, never seen anything like it in an mmo since. ever since ive hated when in mmo's i see my opponent and alrdy know what skills he has and what combination he will use them in, thats so boring. in guildwars i always made my own builds and it felt so good to best others with it

[@rickroll9705]

Bro, its a game where you can't jump. Nobody cares about it lol

[@KrixenTV]

Guild wars 1 was an absolutely amazing game! They lost all that magic in Guild wars 2. How skills were obtained was so fun.

[@KzKiller15]

Please have an auction house like wow. I don’t want guild stores like eso or new world… just makes trading the worst

[@bt70a9]

New world has an auction house like vanilla WoW - you post it, it gets sold, you pay a small fee to the auction house. Horde can not trade with Alliance and vice versa. only in BB

[@madkitty2801]

Problem with NW before the xpac was actually gearing up a good 3 perk set.. and u needed like 40 set to be versatile and efficient in pve and pvp… Gearing up and crafting desing were actual garbage and cost the game a eff tons of players.

[@mercturq]

20:40 I think this is a great idea. I like the idea of having people who can specialize in something but sacrifice other things. What I mean by that is have a profession like carpentry or something like that, but if a player takes that, then they can not take other more "combat useful" professions (or money making professions). However, every caravan will want a carpenter with them. It will strengthen the social aspects of the MMO.

[@SDREHXC]

I love that asmons only criticism of guild wars is “you couldn’t jump” every time anybody brings it up about anything. And by love I mean it’s incredibly stupid.

[@huntrokilla]

OG wow bros refuse to play it or the second one. But when they do, examples JSH, lazypeon, and preach, they love it. Peon’s recent review was so rushed and poor but generally most big KZbin mmo people enjoy/ed it

[@daMillenialTrucker]

i just started playing gw2 a month ago, never played an mmo before and so far i got about 250 hours in, even at 250 hours im still trying to figure out how i feel about it. one minute im having fun and the next idk what to do, strange. maybe im just depressed idk

[@capnfapn]

@@daMillenialTrucker gw2 is cool but its really nothing like gw1.

[@bs5am]

It’s a shit game, live with it.

[@capnfapn]

@@bs5am why is it shit lol

[@shblade5984]

Correction, WoW was not bigger than Minecraft. I know Asmon likes to talk about how amazing WoW was but his opinion is flawed by him playing only WoW in those days.

[@SirJasonLee]

I have never played WoW but its impact on gaming is much bigger than Minecraft for sure.

[@BlackGold-fc7tu]

​@SirJasonLee nah. Every survival craft game is b/c of mine craft

[@pandax5359]

​@@BlackGold-fc7tu I mean survival crafting games existed long before minecraft. But I suppose saying that it led to an increase in survival crafters because of it's popularity, is pretty accurate.

[@pandax5359]

I have no idea about the statistics on this but I think it's probably true yea depending on how you define bigger. WoW was most hyped pre-MC. I think it definitely dwindled in the past decade. While MC is still relevant to the present day. This is just popularity. I have no idea how to even quantify the influence both games have had.

[@shblade5984]

@@SirJasonLee Asmon used Google Trends as his argument, Minecraft was twice as big as WoW when they both came out.

[@brendon96068]

So many people forget how so many of the design elements that ashes gets praised for already existed in the games main inspiration. Archeage had defensive animations for orange health bar enemies, archeage had boat/ocean content and even had a very similar system for building boats and watching them drop into the water for the first time. Archeage had a class system where you combined multiple skill trees. Archeage had large scale pvp with hundreds of players that was usually done right. Archage had a combo system in which some CC's had to be procked from a debuff like trip (works exactly like in ashes warrior update). Archeage had a very fluid combat system that worked very well especially in pvp and every combat update for ashes that was well recieved was just another step closer to what AA already did. These are good systems that im glad they copied, but so far the game just looks like Archeage if it were better in some ways, worse in others (for now) and with UE5 graphics and a node system.

[@newbierides]

That raid reminded me of Silkroad the game. You could trade items between cities and there could be other players as thieves that could steal your loot.

[@Rollan000]

I played Final Fantasy XI waaaaay more than wow back at launch years. Still friends with a bunch of people I played with back then today. FFXI was just a way more friendly community driven game.

[@jubjuba1982]

Ffxi was the best mmo. Period.

[@4RTB8]

TheLazyPeon's Voice sounds like I am an infant in his arms and hes my daddy talking down to me telling me how beautiful the world is, with the music too I Can't bro. THANKS DAD!

[@yous2244]

Lol

[@flymykim]

~ 18:30 youre advocating for a more hardcore/higher difficulty experience because it adds to the immersion . This is always true. That's why the most punishing, most hardcore gameplay is always going to be the most immersive. When you're sweating irl buckets, actually feeling 8-9/10 palpable fear, that's when you're actually part of the world. Hearkens back to FF11, where you needed an entire party of 6: healer, tank, dps, support, just to kill onions and level up. And if one of you dies, everyone dies and the whole party loses a level. Then the mob wanders over to the party next to you and wipes them too. These days I guess they just refer to it in a meme-esque way as "actually gaming" but there is so much to be said for it. The care-bear hold your hand cater to the lowest common denominator WoW model is essentially what killed this (outside of the end game raids).

[@graemefroom3873]

32:00 I think you should be able to set an object to auto loot but others to manual loot. For example put a frequent item like wood to auto loot. Also similar to Project Zomboid you should be able to set the AOE looting to be enabled or disabled.

[@lliamthrumble]

I still play UO. We just want fully fleshed out mechanics. Weve had 30 years, sort ot the fuck out guys.

[@fatvinet]

Outlands is so good

[@mrdeadboy]

EQ was the best MMO, it was new, it was horrible, it was on dial up. you could die on another continent and wake up on your continent naked begging druids to port you. You could farm hill giants for gold that would weigh you down without a shaman to make wr bags, and then spend the gold on gear that was still horrible. No one even knows of the horror of trains in Unrest. Sweet summer children. You think you see the horizon clearly without even looking down to see the giant shoulders that you stand upon. Wow was like a breath of fresh air after suffering the sheer magic that was EQ. Fear not old friends, there are emulators, wayfarers haven....relive just how fucking brutal the first beats of the MMO heart were.

[@jesperjohansson6959]

I feel like that's the kind of horrible shit that actually creates bonds between players and fosters a strong community though, since everyone has to rely on each other to survive and get anywhere. MMOs started dying when they made it so you could play 99% of the game without ever talking to anyone.

[@thedesk954]

"Everquest next" got canceled is a big mistake

[@jasonisfamous6544]

Red 99 eq server was fun to play till someone i trusted stole my gear

[@jasonisfamous6544]

Too bad eq2 was terrible

[@ohihassan693]

21:27 yeah, its too much. You see these small mini game like things can be a too great of a boost for large guilds as they have much more players in them and multiple of such small interaction together could give them too big of an advantage. And not to mention that the caravan progression will have things where you can spend points to improve different aspect of it which would include things that can improve the construction, destruction, travel speed etc

[@niclasskoglund3426]

The problem with this type of targeting is that people can constantly jump and disrupt many ranged attacks so aoe and abilities that comes from above becomes massively more powerful than other abilities and makes mouse aiming abilities to obsolete sadly

[@DigiCube4]

Guild Wars 1 was FIRE!

[@barneymiller4088]

VR headsets never caught on. Graphics don’t really need to be better for a great MMO. The next MMO will be open world AI driven where mobs don’t have set paths and zones. Quests will be unique and complex. Conversations with NPCs will be organic and follow a semi-custom story which aligned to your recent actions and dialog.

[@TheOneTrueFett]

Man I absolutely hate the weapon coloring effects on the warrior abilities. I don't like any of the colorful effects at all. Bums me out, I think I am in the minority of players that haaaates those colorful, flowly, weapon trail, type of abilities.

[@westleyrowe6998]

The fact that in SLF the entire game was pretty much “beat” but it actually hadn’t even started until the first unique monster was beaten. That shit was so cool. Problem is that shit will never happen in a game in this current world of games. People would fucking cry that they wouldn’t be able to kill every unique themselves. But man would it be cool.

[@YonahWise]

Facts.

[@scotthubinger5914]

Can tell Wow was his first mmo, he's got that tunnel vision nostalgia going on. Everquest, Daoc, Asherons Call, all ran fairly well for the most part. Wow came in with a roar riding the WC fan base with a smooth user friendly interface and gameplay with good graphics for the time period. This drew the non hardcore gamers in which is why it took off after.

[@MainerdLoyd]

Totally agree. I played EQ and DAoC. DAoC is the game I have the fondest memories of. Our clan all tried WoW when it released but we all preferred the RvR with purpose in DAoC over the trollish PvP in WoW.

[@bjni]

@@MainerdLoyd Yeah he never played any MMO that isnt a WoW clone, so its going to be a new experience for him. I used to play Darkfall as well, I remember tense moments from that game a lot more than any tense moments in WoW lol.

[@elnaimed8395]

I totally agree, but non of this MMORPG games could exist without Ultima Online (1997), when Ultima Online: The Second Age came out back in 1998, it changed all the MMO rules (games like Meridian 59, The Realm Online, were old by then). WoW came later... years later, with all the happy carebears (a.k.a. pve players).

[@Nownadda]

Classic was good because it was the first game that got its claws in you. Nostalgia is one hell of a drug and you gotta let it go man.

[@legacy9171]

I played UO and EQ, WoW blew them out of the water and still does

[@akhsdenlew1861]

Classic was good, becouse it was good. By that logic, why don't we have generations attached to later-released MMORPGS ? Game was extremely good for it's time. Games that are released right now are extremely bad for their time.

[@iller3]

It was only the first to get claws in for total NEWBS. The rest of us who had already experienced UO, camelot, lineage, EQ, etc... already were becoming nostalgia-proofed

[@tommasomedici6650]

I have no nostalgia for the game because i started wow classic last year. I never played wow before and i think is one of the greatest game ever made

[@Raviis]

I mean... numbers support his claims.

[@2ndPrize]

I don't like playing wow anymore but in TBC I could lay a trap down at the apex of a jump to hide the trap laying animation. I could be running away and jump up, spin 180, fire off an ability and autoshot, then spin back 180 and land and keep running. It played so well and there were a lot of little things you could learn. No other MMO has felt nearly as good.

[@Frank05689]

Another thing that's not mentioned is that wow had a following with warcraft 1 to 3 and the lore that came with it originally

[@mackwilliams8534]

I'm insanely excited for Ashes, been a supporter for years, particapted in alpha 1, can't wait for alpha 2. I have no illusions about it's ceiling though. Unfortunately, the way guild power snowballs in a game like this, and the way it feels for players to "lose" in a game like this, I don't anticipate it being hugely successful. Luckily, I've come to terms with this and still plan to enjoy the game for many years. The game's legacy depends almost entirely on how well the node system is executed and how fun it is as a mechanic. That's why they've been keeping that information so close to the chest. There is hardly any story here to endear players to it the way WoW and FFXIV did.

[@sansundertale8765]

I want to like this game but my limited experience with Albion is that individual player power in AoC will be so irrelevant that the entire game will end up revolving around the two top guilds + probably rampant cheating. And that's a damn shame in a game where individuals look like they have so many options in terms of gameplay specialization. Not having strong, entertaining content for solo and small group players (or even small guilds) just kills a huge portion of your potential audience.

[@coadamolx0100]

Nah , ashes will most likely be more of countries vs countries (big nodes) not a 1-2 guilds dominating everything

[@Mishoko0]

People trying to get the same experience and enjoyment they had 20 years ago is impossible because for most of them (like me) it was our first discovery of MMORPG and we can never find this again the same way we had, also the discovery was 100% with own experience and not partially through youtube content and that made every experience unique.

[@biadhoce]

I disagree, people enjoy the 'new experience' alongside thousands of players. WoW was a new experience, now there's a term for it, 'themepark mmo'. Ashes is inspired by Lineage II and Archage, many haven't touched those games. I've played almost every mmo in the past twenty years, but I've never touched Lineage or Archage mmos. I don't know what that experience feels like, and I love pvp in every mmo. It's a new experience for me, in a new system.

[@Mishoko0]

@@biadhoce I understand what you mean but even if you discover new mechanics it is very hard to replace nostalgia feelings with new games even if i have not felt so much hype for another game in the past and Steven & team are doing amazing job. I really wish i could enjoy this game and create my new future nostalgia feelings

[@biadhoce]

@@Mishoko0 Speak for yourself and not the rest of us. It's not hard to ignore nostalgia and explore new experiences. I'm trying BDO now and enjoying it, never played it before. I'm having fun with the nodes and it's many systems.

[@Mishoko0]

@@biadhoce yes i might talk for myself then i personnally didn't enjoy a new MMO as much as i did before and i feel this can change with AoC

[@kiearnhorne9382]

In regards to Asmons idea of both letting people row the boat to speed it up, and adding minigames to disassemble the caravan and assemble the boat; I think people will be quick to say things like "that sounds boring af" but I agree with Asmon on this. How could rowing or building a boat be more boring than doing nothing and waiting? Not only does it give you something to do, it makes the game feel more immersive. You're not waiting in a loading screen, you're rowing your boat to its destination. You're not waiting for the caravan to from point A to point B. you're defending it, building it, actively working towards your goal at all times. I think systems like that would greatly improve the overall experience of the game

[@PixelBear-PixelCave]

What I'm curious about... Is AoC combat an action based like New World? Where I click to attack... Or like most others where my character attacks and I watch?

[@DANNYxBOY9089]

I don't think there's much of a demand for MMOs anymore. The genre is just not as alluring as in the past. Too many other great games to play and people have less free time.

[@TTDEATHTT]

I think the demografic has changed. Its us Older folks with less time that want to have a good mmorpg. But the younger generation who can spend 40-70 hours a week on games play battle royals and moba's. wich are cheaper to make have a lot of cash shop skins wich are eazy to make and return a bigger profit, then a Full size MMORPG. while before all my class mates during my 14-18 where playing mmorpgs. WoW, GW1, LineAge2,PerfectWorld,Others.

[@leisiyox]

​@@TTDEATHTT and remember that you don't have to build ur character every time you play... In moba and battle royale one just plays and that's it, no attachments added! Modern folks lack commitment and that's understandable

[@ghostshadow9899]

MMOs are stile popular, the problem is the he grind fest most mmo have bios in it. I tried Albion online again, and oh boy…the game is so boring. The only content they hav without a guilde is pve farm.

[@sunnychiu3872]

@@TTDEATHTT IMO that doesn't make sense. Younger folk have very short attention span. So they play games that are fun the minute they start the game. BRs, action rpgs, mobas. These games are fun the minute you get in the game. MMOs generally have a long grind of at least 20 hrs+ before you get to max level and start to actually have fun. And of those levels before you reach max level it's basically a single player game. Defeats the whole point of MMOs. Older people can play one game for hours on end. And people who play MMOs generally only play that one game. At least in my opinion. Don't even start on microtransactions. MMOs are generally the worst with mtx. They artificially create a ton of inconveniences and boring grind to make you buy stuff. They also make free skins ugly AF. So you are even more inclined to spend money on skins.

[@Mille.N.A]

@@TTDEATHTT Simply not true. Pretty much all my gamer friends are looking and have been looking for years for the next big MMO with around the same success that WoW had. Personally I have considered playing WoW many times because it doesn't seem like any other MMO's will be able to measure up to it any time soon. However I also feel like I am too young for WoW as pretty much its whole player base is pushing 30 or more and honestly thought a new and better MMO would have come out by now. I WISH I could have been part of WoW back in its prime, and many of my friends feel the same. I'll continue looking forward to the next gen big MMO and hoping it will come out soon 😔

[@junechevalier]

The biggest update to me is that NOW ashes of creation looks like it has good art direction. Before this year, the art goes in so many directions and it looked so amateur-ish. Glad it's better now.

[@motan7864]

what are you talking about, all i see is generic fantasy cringe

[@junechevalier]

@@motan7864 Yes, but I don’t think you’ve seen what it looked like before lol

[@junechevalier]

@WonderMonkey-xp3xk I don’t mean the graphics. The art direction. And the development would’ve been much faster had it been defined since the beginning

[@junechevalier]

@WonderMonkey-xp3xk I’m a 3D modeler and I’ve worked on several titles. This “superficial” stuff that you talked about is the thing we always say within the industry as something you have to do and you have to do right, which the players won’t notice

[@coadamolx0100]

I always noticed here n there that they had some definitive style in some videos while others looked more ..well Unreal engine however I noticed that since last year the kind of style became more appearnt. What would you call the style they going for tho I dunno what to call it?

[@remi3413]

11:24 It's Power Fantasy coupled with the Hero's Journey character progression. No need for complicated stories which WoW did well early on, makes us feel like we are getting powerful vs the baseline world but with dragons to slay. And don't raise the stakes too fast either. I feel in Isekai anime they add flavors with the S-class type of ranking systems and tournaments things like that would fit well in an MMO as well.

[@Fierlyt]

20:42 - 21:43 The best thing a game can do is ask you to play it. The more ways you give the player to interact and the less time they're standing around waiting on the game's automated systems, the better. And it has to be an optional thing, because forcing everyone to do a minigame they may not enjoy might be less immersive or fun for them than standing guard and spotting an opposing party closing in or talking to their buddy who invited them to the group. All of these things together create an experience where the player is choosing to participate in different ways, and that's what generates the level of immersion we hope for. The more ways we're invited to play, interact, and choose... the better. 31:14 - Solution? Maybe? - Two different loot abilities. One that just picks up any obvious things laying around within an area, but you could miss some rare items/materials if they're hidden or would be difficult to harvest. One that is an active loot that takes some time, but will find every piece of loot from a specific area or defeated foe. You reward players for spending the time to loot, but don't punish them for the times where they're just after common drops by making them do it dozens of times. Maybe even add in a way to select what you're attempting to harvest for instead of pure RNG if there's a mob that has multiple drop pools so over time you can develop your ability to collect a specific drop type?

[@Amanda_move]

Why is he with a new shirt every day

[@cleareye_]

Does this shirt have built in dandruff, or is his scalp that dead?

[@imelatedrn]

​@@cleareye_youve never seen a shirt with spots on it?

[@Mrshucas]

He finally got through puberty

[@gillsejusbates6938]

yall are responding to a bot

[@SAI-LuNaaX]

bot

[@ImKaboose]

The best sales number I can find for WoW for any expansion is 14 million. Minecraft is at 300 million. Wii Sports sold 6x more than WoW. But sure, I guess since Blizzard can keep milking 14 million players over and over for the same content, that makes it the most popular game ever.

[@stillnotchill2560]

Why would you only count one wow expansion vs the entire lifetime of Minecraft. That's a bad comparison. Wow has a base box price that's higher than Minecraft, came out before anyone really used search engines, then sells millions of copies of expansion after expansion, then sells the monthly sub for decades. Also you have to factor that Minecraft is on mobile, much lower price and released in the peak internet era. Minecraft is huge so you dont need to oversimplify the equation to make it look better.

[@roflrofl1234rofl]

14 million is not total sales, 14 million was the peak amount of subscribers that wow had at one time, which was during wrath of the lich king. That means they had over 14 million people paying $15 a month at one time which is a lot crazier than selling more copies of a $15 game that you only buy once.

[@ImKaboose]

@@stillnotchill2560 Because it’s more accurate to player counts. It’s why Asmon likes to use google trends, it’s 14 million players each googling every item and skill in WoW because they’re brain dead making it seem like it’s way more popular than it actually is. I’m making the assumption that most Minecraft players just play one version on one platform obviously, I should probably be more generous and say everyone owns two copies of Minecraft so it’s 14 million to 150 million

[@bullettime1116]

​@roflrofl1234rofl your game being top 3 of sales of all time is more impressive than being the biggest fish of a small pond

[@rain4242]

@@stillnotchill2560 This is the biggest cope i have read. WoW is like old movies that were considered great for their time but now people don't watch unless they are fanatics of the genre, like "the shining". If that movie came out in todays era it would flop. WoW was the only game at the time that had major content, unexplored areas, no other games to compete with it. Minecraft came out during the era where you could look up guides for everything and had plenty of competition. Minecraft still manages to hold HUGE player audience and even went into retailers beyond the gaming section, unlike wow. If you were to release a FRESH unknown exact same copy of wow that no one knew, it would have a guide on everything in the game within 1 week and it would flop over like amongus, i would go as far to say it would be just like lost ark where people play it for 1 month then just give up. The game is carried by no hands nostalgic people because they have spent too much time on the game to accept reality that they should move on but don't want to hoping it goes back to the boom era it had, when it will NEVER go back because now competition exists and you see the real shell of the game. So one game gets millions upon millions viewers monthly and the other gets 1-2 million views depending on if they announce new expansion. Stop coping and take the L.

[@_Just_John]

30:47 - Manual loot is okay of you don't get drops for every mob. Like in Souls games. When I see a tall beam of light in Elden Ring I get little more excited than seeing the smaller one.

[@TheMorninGlory23]

Love that you want an experience over a game, I too think that will make the best game

[@fightingblind]

With games today, I fear for the gamers of 20 years in the future

[@ZipperLQW]

the developers of games in the future are the zoomers of today yeah. Don’t even wanna think about how it’ll be

[@kokocaptainqc]

one thing is for sure, every game will look like a bad acid trip and wont make any sense

[@fightingblind]

@@kokocaptainqc oh God "Everything Everywhere all at once" in a game 😱

[@Suzuki_Hiakura]

29:10 A classic example would be Darkness used by Cecil in FF4, a dark night that cannot use magic (not that I recall, in the beginning of the game), but could use stronger attacks capable of attacking all enemies with health... could be used with Mana instead of Health.

[@SonGoku5363]

I feel like MMO's have too much flashy shit in their combat right now. They need to be more simplistic and focus on having tight controls

[@nikolaiivanov4909]

Why is he with a new shirt every day?

[@dashippo5896]

Homeboy is right... What is happening to /ourguy/?

[@simondarif1386]

He fell off

[@andra9694]

Cheaper to buy than to wash 😂

[@barahng]

@@andra9694Well more time efficient anyways

[@Gaming_Antics]

Because he’s not poor and lazy.

[@DBuilds]

Remember how crowfall was so hyped up and then it speedran a mmo death on release? Its almost like going from lvl 1 to max in an hour wasnt a good idea.

[@motan7864]

Yeah I wonder why though, it looked promising. Art direction / graphics maybe ?

[@DBuilds]

@@motan7864 it was just as awful game. The game play was awful. The leveling was pointless. You could do 2 quest and get to max level. And you were either part of a Zerg guild that controlled castles or you had nothing to do.

[@motan7864]

@@DBuilds that's sad :(

[@akhsdenlew1861]

Crowfall and bless online are some of the fastest MMORPG deaths...

[@Shinyolo]

Didn't even know it released.

[@kurhooni5924]

animations looks good, but the impact on the target dont make you feel like your holding a 2h weapon, i could hit a npc iwith dual dagger ans feel like i'm hiting stronger than with this 2h. hope they will improve the stagger effect .

[@shane9933]

An interesting thought i had was - maybe looting could be put on a single person, as in, 1 person can drag stuff to an inventory spread across your party.

[@arnaspanic]

If the guy making an MMO is a former leader of one of Lineage 2 clans then I don't have to have hope, just need to wait.

[@Dead_Goat]

its open world pvp game... it will die in less than a month just like every other forced pvp game. forced open world pvp kills mmos.

[@Ceisri]

@@Dead_Goat plus it's tab target in 2024... they were making action combat games without tab target back in 2007 ......

[@Xxav88]

@@Dead_Goat still wrong

[@coxworth50]

@@Ceisri tab target is better for an mmo. End of story

[@-Bleriot-]

@@Dead_Goat just watch albion XD the city lobby cant even load all the players.

[@arious1644]

I feel like the only monetization that works, is full box price + subscription then an optional convenience/appearance shop like guild wars.

[@LoFiMan1981]

in regards to visibility ( 23:00 ) def should have more of it in games , i remember when i played dragon age 3 and when you first went down into the dungeons it was pitch black without torches i thought this looked and felt amazing and then a few weeks later they brought a patch out and it was all visible in the dungeon and though i still enjoyed the dungeons it was a let down for me and ruined the atmosphere of having to go around with a torch and finding the locations to light oil lamps ect

[@kentyannayon3741]

I don't remember thinking WoW was a baby MMO, maybe some of the old guard from the Ultima era saw it that way, but for me the issue with it was all my IRL friends playing were Horde, and I just didn't want to play Horde. I ended up playing PWI instead and journeyed a LOT with a really awesome cleric and found a great "guild" that was very consistent in working together and helping each other out. If anyone was playing, and was part of Wolfblade during the 08-09 period, sound off, let's find a new game we can agree on and team up again. Sorry that I disappeared after leaving for basic, my shipmates dragged me off to Aion but it was never the same.

[@legionofanon]

My physician says that the notification coming 2 minutes late is bad for my health

[@skinjudge9007]

I am physician

[@SlizzardHDx]

As someone who played GW1 from Prophecies and WoW from WotLK .. I dont really understand his stupid hating lmao. In GW1 you can't jump but WoW is sooo stupid confusing, you have 3-4 bars with skills where in GW1 you had to choose 8 Skills (which you could always change). The problem was just the marketing, where WoW had TV ads and GW1 didn't advertise so good. Asmon really blind by WoW when it's his only mmorpg he played rlly

[@EasilyImpossible]

It sucks that you'll never get the opportunity to experience the things he is referring to, so your opinion makes sense for the experience you were able to have. You started WoW literally as it was dying. I played GW1 also, from its actual beginning.

[@SlizzardHDx]

@@EasilyImpossible I know what you mean, it's the same with GW1 in its prime, what you can never experience aswell.

[@bt70a9]

I feel like so many games follow the Orc, human, elf etc. pattern of characters - Like wouldn't it be cool if you could be a centaur, minotaur or a cyclops for once, something a little different than the generic MMO races? I don't mean you'd have to remove the current races, but shuffle a couple others in aswell!

[@EricJimxnezPrz]

For me the perfect MMO was something like playing the mod Seamless Coop of Elden Ring, we were 3 people raiding Stormveil Castle, one was caster, i was dex and a partner was a "Tank", my brain insta thought this would be a great direction for MMOs to be good. It was just too good for us I guess.

[@ButKorn]

4:57 I really don't understand why Asmon keeps hammering this point about Vanilla WoW graphics. 2004 was the year when both Doom 3 and Half Life 2 were released. In strategies we had Rome: Total War and the very first W40k: Dawn of War. This has to be some Nintedo kid's perspective or an Xbox enjoyer's from that time, because that generation of consoles exhausted its' capabilities by 2004 and lagged behind PC. From the PC-only perspective, my eyes bled from WoW graphics even then, and yes, it didn't get 10/10 in reviews primarily because of outdated graphics. Of course WoW was a huge step forward for MMOs, but PC-graphics-wise it was meh and WoW's visuals relied heavily on the art style from the very beginning.

[@motan7864]

yeah but all mmos prior to WoW looked like shit. So it had OK graphics but with a lot of style, which ages well

[@iller3]

Don't forget city of heroes either, came out the same year, looked way better than WoW at the time and this was WHILE wow already had a solid long lasting art "aesthetic" going for it.

[@candykit5382]

​@@motan7864they didnt though, theres lots of games that looked good but they didnt have the style wow did. WoW had style, did everything really well, had good gameplay and was the most accessible mmo ever at the time. But you could point at several MMOs that did something better than wow. They just didnt have the whole package or accessibility wow did.

[@ButKorn]

@@candykit5382 I think me and the other guy are talking about a very narrow aspect of graphics, especially how technologically advanced it was (or rather wasn't). Otherwise Vanilla WoW is definiely amongst the best games ever made. When I personally tried it in January or February 2005, it was an epiphany of some sort. I'm just saying that by that time it wasn't particularily graphics that blew my mind, it was everything else. Just google screenshots of FPS monsters that came out earlier in 2004 back to back: Far Cry, Painkiller, Doom 3 and finally Half-Life 2. It's only fair to compare WoW to other MMOs, or, if you're feeling generous - to other RPGs of the time.

[@candykit5382]

@@ButKorn i am comparing it to other mmos. There were other mmos that absolutely did aspects of wow better, but they never had the blizzard or warcraft recognition and most important they didnt have the whole package. Ff11 storytelling dunked on wow. But its gameplay was atrocious. DAOC pvp dunked on wow, but its combat gameplay was not as fluid. And neither game was nearly as accessible as wow. These games are older than wow, other games came out around wows lifetime too, lineage 2, city of heroes, etc all did stuff better than wow, but never had the whole package.

[@whalhard]

I think all the caravan sh*t is very tedious. I wouldn't want to do that more than once. And one wagon does not make a caravan.

[@wild5851]

11:30 the thing about some of this isekai anime is that in theory they are cool but in game they wouldn’t work, overlord for those who don’t know was a pay to win game, if yall remember the shalltear vs momonga fight it was legit a battle of p2w vs free player battle where momonga kept using “cash shop items”

[@itzzzRAMPAGE]

To me if you want real immersion then make the raft only assemble and disassemble if players were actively working on it causing them the choice of defending while others are building. And even with it moving on the rivers. If you stop steering and rowing the current will cause you to lose control while floating down river so you then have to choose who controls the raft vs defend. This would definitely make it more rewarding when you actually succeed in delivering the goods as it ads the irl difficulty and scenarios of what could happen

[@FaDezZ_]

i think Steven has was it takes to take this game to big heights but not as big as wow ... i dont think that is possible anymore

[@MixMeister5000]

That was the beginning of MMO's , definitely hard to beat.

[@liarwithagun]

WoW was social media before social media started maturing. Now that we do have social media no MMO will reach those concurrent player numbers. If Facebook had been around for ten years when WoW released in 2004, WoW would have still been the most successful MMO, but it wouldn't have been a cultural phenomenon like it was.

[@webbie7503]

Asmongold is so right about WOW in 2004. It was 1000x times better than i expected. I hadn't played any game that looked that good or played so well up to that point. What impressed me besides the gameplay and graphics was how there was almost no load screens. You could run forever it felt like until you'd get to a spot where it'd have to load in a new area. The game really hooked me fast cause I never even heard anything about it until about a week before it came out, there wasn't much online videos or hype for games back then other than a few websites if you followed them which i didn't that much. So I just saw the game i think at gamespot in a preview and thought i'd try it... and damn it was just shocking how it blew everything away.

[@VietFS]

but its a negative way of experience anything. Imagine watching the nba and comparing everyone to Michael Jordan. You can't expect that or you wont enjoy the nba again. Same with games. GOATs are GOATs and it doesn't happen often that you find a contender for it. We might get a game that is better than WOW because his mechanics are outdated but its kind of impossible to think that an MMO will release and have a similar impact that WOW did. And dont get me wrong, we can HOPE to get one but we can't expect to get it every time a game releases. The game would be already at -1 rating before start playing.

[@JayBigDadyCy]

Agreed. I didn't even know something like that was even possible. I was a noob to MMos. I knew about EQ and EQ2, as well as DaoC, but never played them. As a huge Warcraft fan, I was absolutely blown away. 10/10 experience and nostalgia for sure.

[@jubjuba1982]

You didn’t play ffxi? Everything about it was better than wow.

[@lukapitkanen3333]

Things AoC needs to do right in order to be succesful: - fun combat and interesting open world (sense of discovery is important) - good character creation and transmog (you need to make people feel attached to their characters) - class fantasy (ties to the character attachement) - feeling of progression The game doesn’t need to be revolutionary, it just has to be fun to play and offer scale that is lacking from most mmorpgs today.

[@CheapoPremio]

I was there 3000 years ago. Playing Biosfear, Ultima Online, Lineage and Fly For Fun. WoW just handled like getting a brand new well oiled bike after riding a rusty single gear.

[@seanferguson9267]

Black desert still has my #1 spot for MMO’s purely off the combat alone. But really hoping the new riot MMO takes that spot.

[@EasilyImpossible]

There isn't going to be a riot MMO.

[@alilarhdiri9666]

I feel like this game is just over hyped and it will disappoint us hard.

[@MrRafagigapr]

exactly , your game will only have outstanding performance if you have outstanding features , these MMOs copying the mmos that failed are basically the definition of madness , doing the same thing and expecting diferent results

[@T3FAT]

The guy played ArcheAge which was a really good mmorpg until P2W and poor anti cheat system was implemented So I already know this game will work if they fix this

[@mcleanfoxhound]

Armored core and Eldren ring only spoke with results. This game talks too much.

[@bc5208]

Literally every single MMO ever lol that’s why WoW & OSRS still dominate

[@minorishimizu4241]

this game is just another MMORPG in the market, nothing new, it prolly will die after a few months just like New World or worse

[@joewilks9081]

the formula is 200m exp skill capes.

[@nochildsupport4889]

I been thinking of that as an mmo a mixtures of isekai but there is a lot of problems 😅 like the power ⚖️ and the quest etc etc

[@LucKyKief]

What’s mmo

[@legionofanon]

Massive multiplayer online

[@Awkwave]

guild wars was awesome he’s mistaken

[@huntrokilla]

He won’t ever try them, JSH came out with an awesome play through a few years ago. It’s really a hidden gem and a lot of OG wow people refuse to play it because it was the other big mmo at the time 2005*

[@capnfapn]

jumping really wouldn't add much to guild wars anyway.

[@huntrokilla]

@@capnfapntrue. It’s almost like a player placement card game with cooldowns if you think about it. The crazy customization with skill builds were so fun. Thousands and thousands of people creations on the wiki or ones you would come up with that no one used

[@kokocaptainqc]

@@huntrokilla yep theres a real conscious effort against mmos that came out around WoW time...the lying and gaslighting at every occasion is insane to this day

[@candykit5382]

Dark Age of Camelot was the best pvp mmo. And nobody does what they did ever since, not even the warhammer mmo did what DAoC did. And all these open world pvp mmos copy the mmos that failed and not the one that succeeded.

[@eon2330]

The whole isaeki etc thing is mostly 1 Random abilities on spawn/not taken by hand Aka no cookie cutter(wow has a version/mod of this). 2. INFINTIE SCALING POWER, not a flat level system with flat gear. This is important as it makes the gap in power large. Bots kinda ruin this. Essentially Hackers/bots ruin any good mmo from being released with any isekai style lore. You will just have 100s of afk bots running the same loops. You need hard core, infinite power scaling games, with random spawn point classes/abilities with a large amount of customization.

[@Valkrill]

Fine, I'll tell you the secret formula. Take Elden Ring, then add more players. Pay model stays the same, buy to play with payed DLC later when its ready, enough content for a long time until the next DLC. Doesn't matter what the game play style is, this will work if they game is satisfying.

[@Cralmonzdy]

LazyPeon isn't the same content creator I once liked. After his poor GW2 Secret of the Obscure review, I'm more than sure that he lost his love to creating a genuine reviews

[@nakano15]

I actually stopped following him after he made an entire video to advertise AFK Arena. I couldn't even watch it until the end.

[@isacmachado1119]

For those unaware, lazypeon played gw2 for an hour or less and thought it was enough for a review video

[@volgtonnen318]

@@isacmachado1119 The onus was on us to realize he was called 'TheLazyPeon' for a reason

[@xSKOOBSx]

You're totally right about the low visibility areas, imagine if there was a gap in the mountains where for a couple minutes you couldn't see the shore, and during that time your raft is vulnerable to being ambushed.

[@Jadebones]

Lmao! The way he just rolls the video through the "Starforge" sponsored ad in this video reaction.... Priceless. Getting even MORE sponsored ad value out of that deal!

[@rePAULsion]

Are you new? He lets every sponsored ad play in a video he's watching

[@SlCKNESS_]

Low visibility is awful for competitive games. Don't give example with those. Fog maps in PUBG were god-awful.

[@IncognitoActivado]

I don't care.

[@joachimmrl]

The next step would with out a doubt be a VR MMO. If sony releases PS6 with included VR and an new groundbreaking MMO, then thats a GG

[@vanisyn2495]

I think we are 20+ years away from something like that

[@banishedbr]

me hoping ps5 is the last BS console happening and you come with hopes for a next, cmon stop, there is no need for an extra after PC.

[@joachimmrl]

@@vanisyn2495 probably, unless they find an new cheap innovative way of making the hardware. but still, no new mmo will compare to wow until that VR leap in tech and cost i think.

[@rexammus]

a VR setup is like 3k+ btw, and it hasn't gone down much ever since like, 3-5 years ago, so...

[@joachimmrl]

@@rexammus exactly what im tryiong to say, when VR gets better and cheaper, way cheaper, thats when we will get the next groundbreaking MMO

[@akiotatsuki2621]

If anything when quantum computing becomes affordable for Game companies they can be used in Server Rooms to handle a ton of the backend so you can have more people on one server and handle tons of the backend

[@Just_Pele]

I think swimming with the raft or boat should be ok, but you would realistically struggle to keep up, AND you would need to take off any heavy armor for deep water, to increase the realism and raise the stakes. So you can swim to shore and follow, but there are risks and trade-offs for doing it.

[@SmoothCoaxing]

this video is basically gonna be asmongold talking about how ahead of its time WoW classic was and how no other game will ever reach that height of gaming lmaoo calling it now

[@kokocaptainqc]

pretty much...i dont care as long as he doesnt pull blatant lies about other games like ''yeah you had to pay 5 dollars for each quest'' or something like that

[@Great.Gospel]

Aren't we coming up on nearly 10 years since Ashes of Creation was first revealed? I was definitely not impressed then and nothing has been shown to date that's given me any confidence the game will be worth sinking tons of time into it.

[@Runsta101]

7 years, but your point is valid.

[@CHIM3RA.]

Just go watch every monthly showcase the past year, AOC looks like a very in depth MMO. I personally can't wait to see Alpha 2 testing in Q3 this year, should bring back some good hopium in the MMO community.

[@akhsdenlew1861]

@@Runsta101 bro i am sorry but in 7 years, my whole neighbourhood was demolished and replaced by 8 floor buildings that Throw Hyper beams to alliens. My point is, that 7 years is TOOOOOOOOOOOO long for just 1 game.

[@coadamolx0100]

​@@akhsdenlew1861it's not ,6-7 yrs is the usual time to make ur cut of the mil mmo and realistically ashes didn't really start fully developing until 2020-2021 cuz of a lot of stuff that am too lazy to get into

[@akhsdenlew1861]

@@coadamolx0100 the project was announced 7 years ago.. that's the only thing that matters. the things that got in their way are problems to be solved.. their problems. If it took 4-5 years for them to figure some shit out, it's THEIR fault. Keep in mind, that 7.. actually, 8 years later ( almost) and the game is like.. NOWHERE near complete. if u take such a big period of time to make a game, you better crush the market and the whole gaming industry with it... otherwise it's not worth it. it's gonna hit the 10year threshold for sure.

[@Riomasa]

One thing that’s always missed from the comparisons to classic WoW is that so many games have come out to fill whatever niches the player base of WoW was active for. MOBAs, survival games, sandbox games, Minecraft, action(system) rpgs, and even VR spaces. So nothing can come close to WoW’s popularity in its prime, but in terms of being actual great game; it can.

[@timothyduuqette5717]

You should be able to split the raid up and have them set up the caravan conversions ahead of time. It would make the party actually defending smaller but could significantly increase the speed at which you get back

[@blackthorn357]

I really want a Starcraft MMO.

[@BonJoviSXS]

Blizzard: A Mobile Starcraft Gacha BR? We can do that. You can even get Kerrigan if you pre-order the 999$ F2P edition! -ERROR OVERFLOW-% value!

[@blackthorn357]

@@BonJoviSXS Lol Nice! But I do seriously want a good Sci-Fi MMO. One can dream!

[@yous2244]

​@@blackthorn357Star Citizen will be the only hope of MMOs, check it out when they add server meshing next year.