The last VR game you’ll ever play

[@Gramsy]

I'll never forget, after some of my first several hours in Zenith, my friends logged out for the night and I wanted to keep going. I met up with a couple of strangers and for several hours we just did quest after quest. At one point we found ourselves at the top of a massive tree over looking a beautiful valley... And it was almost surreal, we all stood there and just stared at the scenery, admiring how incredible everything looked. For minutes we stood in absolute silence just looking. It was indescribable to experience something like that with complete strangers. What a timeline we live in. In a lot of ways... what a weird and chaotic time to be alive, but what an *amazing* time as well. I'll never forget that. That is one memory that will be with me forever.

[@Kaizakiarata1]

Why did u ruin it the reply section

[@firstlast1861]

@@Kaizakiarata1 wait till u get this comment in vr lol, sadly there will be many ads

[@rubenemanuel007]

Tank's for sharing your thoughts, I'm agree on everything. I'm having a lots of fun with Zenith.

[@thederpderp7758]

This moment is even in the first episode of SAO, when the main character and his buddy are sitting on a plateau and just looking out at the virtual scenery, and I imagine they felt in that scene what you felt for real. And that's so awesome. You can watch the scene here kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYnJfaFjjLGAj68 if u haven't seen it already. And just so you know it starts at 4:36 😄 (it's very low quality but whatevs 🐙)

[@chadbrown8377]

Wasnt orbus vr an mmorpg?. I never see any of the vr mmorpg videos mention it. I had a fair amount of fun playing it several years ago when I got my first rift hmd.

[@distressed_smoliv2695]

Sword Art Online unintentionally set everyone’s expectations for the future of Virtual Reality

[@Dolph_]

Yep why do you think more and more people keep trying to make more ways to do have things like full body and haptics that make you feel the hits you take in game.

[@smittyvanjagermanjenson182]

We're still in the pre-SAO stages of VR. If someone can figure out non-invasive full dive with in my life time that would be incredible. I've seen many people hate current VR tech because it's not Full dive, but for me this quest 2 hooked to my PC wirelessly is only the beginning and I'm just glad to be a part of it!

[@JojoTheVulture]

Just like how Ready Player One set expectations for how the Metaverse should be in like 10 years

[@vexatiousfae7090]

It was 100% intentional

[@venn7257]

@@vexatiousfae7090 I doubt the original author had that in mind when they wrote it

[@maxh4102]

It’s like how in multiplayer fps games, how good you are isn’t determined by level, but instead by mechanical skill and I think that vr would be a great way to translate that to mmo combat

[@fartyfat6539]

like an fps shooter mmo would be cool

[@Badkitty24]

and this is done by scaling levels to match area. No more lvl 40 coming in and one shotting everything ot help someone level up. Although...in the very beginning area, i can (charge) 2 shot low levels. :D

[@thetangibles8242]

Mage has a good case, but for a blade or any other hand to hand combat; it's weird because there is no force to stop a blade or weapon. You never get the real experience.. I am just unsure how that will be solvable. They have games that do a good job with a fighting "system" but this would require basically the real deal emulation lol.

[@mateuszfelisiak480]

@@fartyfat6539 like Planetside 2? :D

[@kelazun]

@@fartyfat6539 RIP Firefall

[@RealTDragon]

that thought experiment you shared is genius! hopefully in the next 10 year something like that will come out lol

[@IMelonBeats]

he should sell an NFT of it and use the money to fund the game development.

[@kiriseraph9674]

Sounds like Star Wars Galaxies

[@tinytheyods]

@@kiriseraph9674 People just dancing in the cantina for 8 hours lol, good times.

[@kiriseraph9674]

@@tinytheyods Yeah lol, was more of a medic myself XD

[@halorofvalor]

It reminds me if SAO. I would love a SAO type game for vr

[@Ss15996]

Your thought experiment is everything ive ever wanted in a game. Its exactly why SAO kept me going back and watching bc even tho I didnt find it interesting, I LOVED the world and world building. I couldnt get enough. Just imagining being able to do something unique that people will seek out and find interesting and useful is everything ive ever wanted to do in my life, and while I dont feel like my creativity will be able to do that irl anytime soon, if a game like that ever comes along ill probably be the first in line

[@snax7760]

Anime like SAO and any video game full dive vr anime interest me so much just because I’d like that to be our reality,a game where we can play feeling like we’re in that world,not just watching that world but influencing it with our own hands.I’m guessing 10 years later we’re gonna have some kind of tech similar to that,hopefully.

[@MoonyRuney]

If you got invested in SAO's world and worldbuilding, you found it interesting, you don't have to cover your ass to say you enjoyed it

[@MrStarnger1]

@@MoonyRuney They probably meant the plot and characters weren't that interesting but the setting was, and to be fair its true

[@impalah]

@@snax7760 nah, you don't want that. And black mirror explains it pretty well. If the server gets down and your brain is in the game, you're trapped on a black world and your body will be just a live container of nothing. Very controversially actually but damn, scary af

[@snax7760]

@@impalah Fair enough,I never actually considered that but that’s a pretty scary concern

[@reggo6253]

Now imagine how immersive his thought experiment game would be with haptic gloves. I can see having to master hand movements to cast specific spells and the more accurate you are with them the better your spells get.

[@ELSHELL]

I can see that with actual naruto hand signs

[@belg4r489]

There's a game called Orbus VR which works with runes. You have to draw the runes in the air, if it's not properly flat or inaccurate, the spell wont cast. You have to practice to do it faster and better! Game has plenty of problems but the mage class is very fun to practice! You also see the massive difference in casting when calm or when in combat (If you are successful 80% times in practice, you'll probably only get half that in combat

[@ludoxz]

Valve is developing brainwave sensors to integrate into the Index, so just thinking of a spell would cast it

[@belg4r489]

@@ludoxz nah mate, that ain't gonna happen. gonna need a neuralink or smt like that and the CDC aint gonna let that kinda stuff be used for something like gaming anytime soon

[@ludoxz]

@@belg4r489 no, you can read certain brainwaves with sensors outside the body, so this is definatly possible, just look at michal reeves who changed the throttle of an actual car with a brainwave reader of an kids toy, so if a big company actually attempts it, id say its possible

[@AwakenToast]

I love the idea of having a VR title that you actually benefit from TRAINING certain skills. Like legitimately that would have me hooked in a heartbeat being able to work on spellcasting by practicing the scale of spell I use/learning incantations that could only be casted by my voice/etc. Even something as little as skill connects where we could cast spells on blademasters swords or combine different elements from other players to have one ultimate spell. Would really bring people together and make raid fights even more fun to take down. On top of that it would be nice to have a VR game where the players can only professionalize in a select amount of things. For ex. Blademaster/Blacksmith Essence Mage/Cook Cyberninja/Agility Expert Just little things like this would make each player even more unique depending on what they choose within the game. It would also impact their experience on how they play the game being limited to only those classes/professions. Like imagine not having a cooking trait so you HAD to find someone who was a master in cooking. Or wanted a new weapon but couldn't make it yourself, so you had to find someone who mastered blacksmithing. That would be breathtaking

[@w2719]

Not a VR title but an upcoming game called Bitcraft might be something close to what you are talking about, the devs say they want to make a new kind of mmo

[@Boslandschap1]

I realise this is not necessary what you're thinking of when you say "I love the idea of having a VR title that you actually benefit from TRAINING certain skills", but I really enjoy combat flight sims in VR (IL2 Sturmovik mainly) in VR, which is *exactly* that. No levelling, the only skill development is you becoming a better pilot by learning how to fly and fight better and/or becoming better at bombing.

[@Dindonmasker]

have you tried the mage in orbus? a mage can cast any spell from lvl 1 if you know the rune to draw in mid air with your wand. people can reduce the cast time of a rune like crazy because they know how the system works and spam a spell non stop by drawing the rune faster.

[@jakecake51]

> incantations that could only be casted by my voice ^ Thisss! Finally, someone said it. It'd be so cool!!! I'm a subscriber btw 😎

[@makrush5264]

exactly

[@brettcameratraveler]

When cinema first started they just ported over stage plays...They had yet to ask all the creative questions surrounding what is new and now available to us with cinema. VR is still in the middle of a similar transition. As more haptics, full body tracking, AI character conversations, etc become available many VR devs will become world creators that are setting the rules for various intermixed levels of interactions and less about rigid stories - however there will always be a purpose for both.

[@ThunderDraws]

@No Rush could take a long while and it probably really needs mainstream adoption of VR and AR glasses - and we don't even really have AR glasses yet at all it's going to be really interesting to see how things have developed in 10 years though.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

Insightful and true.

[@Ellebelle2565]

hope we are alive to see it all

[@lorddraco5954]

9:44 Hearing this hearing you @ThrillSeeker say this someone who I believe to have a large impact on the VR community makes me happy this is exactly what I have been waiting for. We have seen so much from other games, Skill-based magic and swordplay, advanced crafting, MMO-style communities. Games like Orbis, B&S, oathbreakers. Township tale. They all have their own little bits of it and we have most of the pieces out there in other VR games we just need the team that can work on it and put it all into one place. That team will need a lot of skill to get it all done for sure but if they can get that we will likely have the best and likely most community-driven game out there.

[@eeveeminer4276]

your description of what a vr mmo COULD be, is 100 percent what i would die to experience

[@asheliagaming]

For a first VR MMO it's pretty amazing, I can't wait to see how the genre will progress. Honestly I hope for the future to find a way to address graphics as well. I understand it's made to be supported by all platforms, and the Quest being the top ranked VR set plays its part on holding that back. But as a VR enthusiast who spends a lot of money on VR sets and a PC to handle it, I can only hope we get something that makes use of it some day.

[@Undeafeatedable]

It's not the first one, but it's definitely moving the needle forward

[@catbert7]

I'm not bothered by the graphics, personally. I find that interaction mechanisms are far more important to immersion (full-body, FoV, eye-tracking, physical feedback, etc.). Basic graphics are noticeable at first but I quickly stop caring about that as I get involved, I find.

[@asheliagaming]

@@catbert7 Well it kinda adds to immersion for me. It's nice to see my arms and hands but looking how low poly they are kinda makes me cringe. I'm used to seeing better in 2022. Don't get me wrong, I understand the choice to address all platforms, I only hope for improvements in the future. Or maybe a way where a PCVR user can max their graphics while Quest remains supported with lower graphics? Then again that may just not be doable on development cost... Just thinking out loud anyway.

[@djrocuall]

@@asheliagaming pretty sure the community will add a mod of some sort for graphics if the devs don’t do it

[@asheliagaming]

@@djrocuall True, that's one of the beauties of PC gaming after all. It's impressive what some enthusiasts manage to make.

[@argonile2344]

The idea of a sort of "prototype" towards the true reality of SAO in an actual VR game - with a fully player driven economy, it'd be amazing to see honestly.

[@deadman9323]

Don't forget about the log out button

[@Azimii]

albion online is a non vr mmo game that is a fully player driven economy and i’d super love to see that in vr. fishing and mining and harvesting would be super fun and super important, while adventurers can go and do their thing people would be there to actually do it

[@robbieaulia6462]

@@deadman9323 And make sure your device can't kill you

[@delphicdescant]

@@robbieaulia6462 Nah, I'm suuure that we can make a headset able to microwave nuggies for us while we play but definitely *not* able to microwave our brains when it goes haywire. The nuggies are worth it.

[@sirgrem2988]

@@Azimii Also don't forget EVE: Online which IMO has the largest one so far in the player driven economy genre

[@charlesmcdowell9436]

Zenith is an indie game as well so.....pretty impressive they got this off the ground as well as they did.

[@smittyvanjagermanjenson182]

Ramen VR was backed by like 10 million dollars, Hence the delays. I'm expecting so much good content coming in future updates for this game, pretty exciting stuff

[@KenjisGamingDen]

To keep this game alive I would be down for cash shop for non boosting items, like for clothes or cosmetics. I want more from this small team

[@churro3278]

It has done amazing to say the full game has only just released

[@NeinnLive]

@@KenjisGamingDen did i understand correctly that you wish for an ingame shop? the duck - i would leave as fast as possible… just gimme a monthly fee and i’m fine but no ingame crap

[@charlesmcdowell9436]

@@NeinnLive ff14 technically has a shop but it's outer game shop. I can't think of many successful live service games with out a shop to keep them alive. Guild wars 2 maybe? Don't forget they still got to pay their bills and people that work there.

[@theeyeofmango]

Im going to college for game design and months before zenith came out wanted to make a vr rpg with a big focus on overworld hub crafting but strike team style raids. Like Destiny where the hub world is full of players and vendors but the missions are split between 3 6 or 8 players generally. that would make running the game with high level graphics easy while still keeping an mmo feel. I stopped this project a while ago due to lack of motivation but after seeing this video I think Ill try to take another shot at it. Thanks.

[@ytrewqfdsacxz3181]

Go for it dude keep us posted

[@bitterswot7584]

good luck, try to keep it small at first.

[@MrResidenteviladdict]

If you can, you should

[@KazukiP]

Hello fellow Games Design student :)

[@sethcalliesmusic]

Are you looking for any help with the project? What you explained is pretty much my dream game. Destiny Style missions, with player economy, trading and Runescape style elements added in the mix; maybe with a bit of Albion with the economy style

[@SadSquashy]

This video really hyped me up , now I want my vr headset even more also your idea on vr mmo is actually really good

[@voidmusic3881]

This concept that you've described has been on my mind for a long time. Imagine a Virtual Reality world where your own creativity impacted how you play, you develop your own sword skills, magic spells, and other traits like blacksmithing. I personally think that this could become a total game-changer if it's done right. Sadly the technology to make this possible for everyday users doesn't exist yet, it would be too resource-intensive and require stable internet with low ping. But at the same time, this sort of project would take years to develop, so maybe a future version of the quest 2, and a game-changing update to how server-side code works, such as having entities perform local actions when given a simple command by the server. Maybe instead of having enemy movement going from the server then to you, and having your movement go from you to the server, what if we could develop a system that once an attack is triggered by the server, everything else is local, so you can react without any delay, regardless of your internet. One problem with this of course would be could a device handle it? Maybe if you select only specific entities, like the ones closest to you to have local movement, it would be easier for the device to handle. This has gotten a bit off track, so let's go back to the main topic at hand, a virtual world where creativity and personal skill influences how you play. I'm a game developer and have been interested in making Virtual Reality Games, it's been a favorite of mine for years since the original oculus rift was in its beta. I think it may be possible to create a system that works similar to procedural generation in games. If you don't know, procedural generation is where the game world is created by the computer, with essentially infinite possibilities. A popular example of this is Minecraft, each time you create a world, it has a custom seed, and that seed makes a totally randomly generated world, well as much as a computer can create randomness that is. Let's take magic as our example here, since it'll be easier to understand what I'm about to propose. Imagine you're able to wield different elements of magic, and each element has multiple uses, like with water, you can make a condensed blast or a wide range blast. It can have even more uses, this is just defining the base so you can grasp the concept. And now imagine if you're able to combine one specific element use with another, to create a whole new ability. This ability here would be like the seed in Minecraft, but it's something that's automatically generated by the computer, rather than something a programmer specifically makes. If we have only 4 elements with 2 different abilities, that would give us 56 different possibilities. Now imagine there are more elements, and each has even more abilities, the number of possible attacks would seem almost infinite, let alone the combinations you can make! Another thing to consider is what about when VR hand tracking gloves and eye-tracking become mainstream? It would really feel like you're in SAO! There are so many possibilities with how an idea like this could turn out! What if your finger positioning affected your spell? It would have a learning curve, but it can open up many more possibilities! And what if we had eye-tracking so you can target a friendly player for a buff? I'm personally interested in experimenting with this concept and I'm considering making a test of how this could work. If you see this Thrill, I'd like to hear your opinion on this! And everyone else who may see this, I'm willing to discuss this topic and would like to hear what everyone else thinks! I'm sure there are problems with this idea, but I honestly believe this could completely change how things work in our world!

[@atlas4733]

I honestly think the hand tracking would be the most fun for spells. It would require incredible skill to learn some of the really complex spells, and would have a lot more variety for making them. It would also be interesting to use specific gestures to, instead of only combining spell parts, also be able to do different things like compressing, moving, twisting, and changing properties mana as if it were a fluid. So basically have several layers of compression or whatever for powerful spells, where the final shape affects if the spell is an AOE sphere you can throw, fast flying spikes, a beam, or an extension of your weapon, followed by a finishing touch of adding whatever element you want. Or, instead of adding the element last, there are different types of mana that react differently (ex: water mana is like a fluid, fire acts like fire, electricity has conduction and maybe a +/- charge mechanic) and require different gestures to coalesce in the first place, and might backfire if combined wrong. The final effect of one of the two mana-based systems would probably be magic that looks a lot like bending with wide arcs, but also intricate finger movements, although it would be limited to quest and index users.

[@voidmusic3881]

@@atlas4733 Great points! Another idea I had after making my comment was about drawing spells in the air, sort of like a magic circle, but I was thinking it could be more free form, so you can draw a long shape, short, circle, etc. Although after reading your comment, I like what you've thought of, and I'm a big fan of bending myself haha

[@riderstimes8855]

Bro legitimately wrote a full essay on a KZbin comment section. Mad respect

[@xlr1009]

@@atlas4733 Yea I had that kind of system in mind for a while now and even included it in a novel I wrote, basically a magic rune language that has runes for different elements and actions you can do to affect your mana in order to create a spell matrix, so basically you would draw runes in the air using your fingers in a sequence to create a spell, and in a VR setting you would be rewarded based on your speed, accuracy and of course creativity in creating the spell. And that doesn't necessarily prevent the mmo from being grindy, you could still add a separate system that increases your damage, reduces mana usage, etc based on ingame proficiency in a certain spell you created. I also thought about the problem of some players being too lazy or just generally not liking a system that requires you to create your own spells, so the idea of spell books that do the work for you exists, but you can only level those skills with skill points, whether self created skills can be improved with practice, and if you acquire both the skill book for a spell and create it yourself without the aid of the system you can unlock the spell's special property, for example for a fireball spell can be an additional burning effect after the initial damage.

[@GHST-zs7ez]

For the haptic gloves part I recommend you to check the Chanel of Lucas VRtech who has made a great prototype of open source gloves so that you can build a full finger tracking pair of gloves for only 22$ and even an haptic pair of gloves with force feedback for 60$

[@arandompotat0]

As someone who don't really like MMO, your "dream MMO" sounds awesome. I don't really like grinding so I stay away from those games but I find the roll playing aspect of it appealing. I hope that some studio take your ideas and implement them into a real game. I imagine it would be difficult to develop a gameplay mechanic which takes into consideration precise movement. Current game mechanics development in vr focuses on basically aim assist to ,I assume, avoid frustration on the player, maybe it's just the sensors and body tracking which isn't 100% accurate at this moment.

[@zig131]

Unfortunately with the change of focus from outside-in tracking to inside-out tracking, tracking accuracy is going backwards :(

[@kiritadoshi]

@@zig131 yes, but inside out tracking is a lot easier to set up. And more accessible in general. A necessary evil for the progression of vr. Sooner rather then later im sure inside out will be replaced with something more precise, and only because vr was able to grow large enough to demand consumer friendly innovation. And that consumer friendly growth starts with more accessible tracking, like inside out.

[@barakkoifman5692]

they could make the basic spells easy to cast while the stronger ones needs precision... at the beginning the basic spells shell do against lesser opponents but as you progress you will have to learn better spells to fight and level up. it even might be really great to have university like skyrim in which you can learn new skills and perfect them against dolls or stuff..

[@Zero-xf1pl]

the movements could be timing-based instead of accuracy-based.

[@marquess2004]

Honestly I found this whole idea of "implementing physicality into vr both" incredibly exciting and also kind of funny. From the points he mentioned in the video, it sounds like something I'm sure would gather a lot more people than just pre-existing fans. But the fear that the first properly fleshed out VRMMO game will be called "Swort Art Online" is only growing stronger.

[@Canal10000]

Honestly, I think that Skyrim VR would have been a great MMO in VR, with some adjustments. That is what I want from an MMO in VR. Skip classes and abilities. Let the players start from zero and let them find their own path. If they find spellcasting more fun than archery, then they simply start leveling up their spellcasting skills.

[@yazuki-wolf]

Pretty sure you could get Skyrim Together to run in VR. That's probably the closest thing right now to a Skyrim VR MMO

[@shadowslayer9988]

They should give the option to choose a class or not but, they should have it to where choosing a class means you get special skills and abilities within that class.

[@DFX2KX]

@@yazuki-wolf my understanding is that it does work, but animations and the like don't work right. It'd almost require a bespoke version of Skyrim together with that functionality built in.

[@TheHorrySheetShow]

The day they make that game .. we wont be playing anything else. If they just remake ultima online in VR it would revolutionize the VR world.

[@HerrTiSo]

You should try NMS.

[@MichaelIZKOOL]

10:43 This sounds like the rune mage in Orbus or the combat in the upcoming game Rumble VR. I love the idea of skill-based combat in VR via gestures.

[@catbert7]

Exactly. Orbus's spell-casting is exactly what he's describing and it's amazing.

[@lukadwt]

mhm

[@ainedroid]

The zenith combat is a lot of fun if you’re messing around with friends. My friend is a melee healer and I’m a ranged healer and we wouldnjust never die bc we’re constantly healing each other

[@distressed_smoliv2695]

The coolest thing to me with VR MMOs is that the combat and abilities have so much more potential

[@no_categories]

Thank you for your thoughtful and comprehensive take on this, with even comparisons. It's a well written editorial. Kudos. I especially like your focus on how the medium can do something more, or something unique to that medium. I agree with you, too, that there's more opportunity for lore and narrative experience than we're seeing yet.

[@Spidoc]

Average zenith player: Yeah, it’s pretty cool Also, that idea of a rethought VRMMORPG formula sounds a lot like sword art online and what I want the future of VRMMORPGs to be. Thanks for the great content as always! Edit: Almost forgot my line… ahem… POGGERS

[@deadpianist7494]

VRMMOERPG :)

[@Dolph_]

Minus the being trapped right?

[@Jet_Set_Go]

go check "Ilysia", the feature list is basically that plus some other cool stuff

[@Spidoc]

@@Jet_Set_Go I’ve not checked out ilysia in a while, might look at the progress!

[@Spidoc]

@@Dolph_ ummm… maybe?

[@Aodan]

One of my best gaming friends swears this is the best VR MMO ever. Almost makes me want to grab VR too. I agree that VR gives MMOs more space to grow. Even just for ACTION MMO combat, there are a lot of limitations. Great video!

[@Paios]

only vr mmo ever*

[@ratchetandclankfan2]

I was gonna say that too It really technically is the only vrmmmo game

[@Y_KM]

Everybody gangsta till the leave button stops working

[@cedricknapp2889]

The way you describe getting better at physically doing skills is exactly how OrbusVR implemented their magic spell casting system. I think that's pretty much what you're looking for but it never had the reception that Zenith received.

[@Mjaeff]

Orbus really was terrible though.

[@maxwelladragonslayer346]

Orbus was better than zenith though imo

[@joshuajinkins9939]

The thing is, Orbus made the magic too hard. When I started, for days I could only cast one spell consistently, I could do the other spells, but the only worked some time, I feel like they could have made the low level spells easier and made the high level ones really hard

[@InvictusMartin]

@@joshuajinkins9939 but that’s what he’s talking about, having to actually master the spells in order to get good and not just grind for levels.

[@joshuajinkins9939]

@@InvictusMartin I understand that, I’m just saying there’s a balance to be struck between having to master the skills and making the game impossible for noobs

[@FruitLoops_]

Thing is, what you're describing as a vrmmorpg is actually more like a VR reality, a VR world, or rather, a virtually real world

[@e2rqey]

One could even call it..... Virtual Reality

[@user-mx2qx4rl9o]

@@e2rqey no no VR reality

[@DivisorOfZero]

@@user-mx2qx4rl9o VR is Virtual Reality so what you are saying is Virtual Reality Reality... that's what Sean was getting at... I tried to think of how better to classify it but honestly I think that would require a new word without being a complete mouthful like in depth Societal based VRMMORPG

[@user-mx2qx4rl9o]

@@DivisorOfZero yes VRR we could call it

[@Casta2]

@@DivisorOfZero Pretty sure they knew that when they comically said "no no VR reality"

[@brandoncoyle7110]

This is the first game where I felt truly terrified in VR in a good way. Doing the flying quests to pull levers on the side of floating islands had my legs shaking so hard that I felt like I ran a marathon afterwards. Yes I am very afraid of heights, but I still love it. I have literally all but had a breakdown in guild chat doing some of these quests. In the end I felt incredibly accomplished for overcoming my fear though.

[@rancearnold8074]

Well done, sir!!

[@m.ubaidaadam]

it still takes guts to face your fears even if its in VR good job my man!

[@brandoncoyle7110]

@@m.ubaidaadam Thank You! When I was level 15 I remember thinking I would never be able to get used to it. It's still crazy how real it feels and how easily it makes me queasy, but I have now completed all the quests in the game. My son just breezes right through them like no big deal. Heh its great fun together though. I hope to see everyone in Zenith. Its truly the best game I have played in VR to date. Midori is my char name; if you see me online say Hi.

[@gambanoid]

@@m.ubaidaadam exorcist legion taught me this

[@CA-gu9he]

This is super cool! Looks like a fun game, definitely opening the gate for an SAO style game! Love the vision you were talking about for future VR MMORPG games too! The vision is like SAO but even greater tuned to those individual player aspects!

[@McScope]

This mmo reinvention you are describing sounds a lot like township tale. There’s a bunch of discrete skills and the skills are based on your physical movements in a way where precision and practice really helps. But yeah, it’s not as big a MMO, world is kinda limited (I finished it in about a week)

[@DiamondDepthYT]

This is the first vr game I've put so much time in. The others I would play for a few hours then rest, in Zenith, though, I played for 10 hours straight at one point. It is truly immersive for me.

[@Badkitty24]

I tried to play Orbus...but i just couldn't get into it. It lacked so much. Zenith is so much better, while still lacking, but there is more progress in adding features so in the long run, zenith will win out.

[@Fire84190]

Try Into the Radius...

[@Ardendev]

I've been playing this game so much, I've been excited since like may 2021 and it's so much fun especially if you have a guild and even more if you have a quest and can turn around 360 with no wires

[@TheDragonfriday]

It would be fun if only I had time to play it ;-;

[@RabidDisposition]

@@TheDragonfriday I feel you pain, man. Between work, college classes, and raising a newborn, I might as well say goodbye to the virtual world for a bit 🙃

[@paolaanimator]

@@RabidDisposition I feel ya as well, in college classes (last year) and I barely has time to play some VR games. College burnout is real but this is my last year. I hope to have more time after college.

[@SpaceSloth707]

This is definitely the start of something amazing! Definitely looking forward to get Zenith sometime soon. So cool that you can now actually say that you're going to play a VRMMORPG!! I know for sure that we can or will get something that's actually like Sword Art Online, that you put on an headset that actually transports you to a fictional place, similar to dreaming.

[@halyoalex8942]

This video (and Zenith itself) has reminded me not to let my dream of a Survival Sandbox MMORPG die. Now more than ever, it feels like it has the capacity to flourish, to innovate on the MMO format in a way that would cut away some of that staleness. If I could make it a VRMMORPG, then I’d probably make it’s mechanics function the way you described your own ideal VRMMORPG. Practice-makes-perfect skill casting, fully player-driven economy… And of course, the Survival Sandbox aspect; the world begins as a wilderness and there are no predefined countries or laws; it’s up to players to fill each and every niche; to post quests for other players and give rewards to them, to craft every bit of gear and build every civilized dungeon or temple, to make laws and protect civillians. To make their own world. Your world. …Hey, that doesn’t sound half bad for a title… 🤔

[@burb353]

do it man. id buy

[@halyoalex8942]

@@burb353 appreciate the support, man, but I’m just one guy. Still need to find people who’d be willing (and capable) to work on a game like that :(

[@VUND-25]

@@halyoalex8942 there's a dude higher up in the comments [sort by top comments] who said he might get back into a VRMMORPG project so I would try and get him on board.

[@Kettlebot]

Wurm Unlimited is a lot like this, though it’s very very dated by now and the player base is likited

[@sethcalliesmusic]

I'd love to help you build a team and possibly acquire funds for this kind of project, it would be so awesome!

[@whorror_punx]

Hardcore, longterm Runescape player. Old school, more specifically. Love the second part of your vid. MMO players don't want a game, as much as they want to be submerged into a new world that they can live in and contribute to a giant fantasy world, and kill monsters and hang out with friends. The community is the MOST important part of an MMO, and unfortunately, it's just not something you can program in. It has to happen organically. And I think your idea for a VR game sounds incredible. Unfortunately enough as well, I dont see the MMO genre improving any time soon. Started in about '03, and was instantly addicted. But it was different back then; we didnt know anything about it really. There was no "grinding the most efficient method" or anything like that. In fact, lots of people hardly even did anything at all lol and that was the best part of the game. A lot of people would just login and talk while wearing their coolest looking/best/most impressive outfits. Just standing around places like Varrock Sq, or under the Blue Moon Inn. And when you were skilling, it wasn't uncommon to talk to the person/people around you. It was SUUUPER community driven, and I have several, several, online friends I still talk to that I met via Runescape. I've played MMO's and have always said they're my favorite genre my entire life. But I'm not sure that's actually even true. Like you said, mostly all are WOW clones. Id play WOW if I wanted that experience. Runescape became super familiar to me, and I know it well, so I still play it and still love it. And it does still have a good community, even if its nothing like what it once was. And the other games I like; Dungeons and Dragons Online, Star Wars Galaxies, etc. are all old, and because they're old; unique. Sorry for the novel, I'm just an enthusiast who loves what MMO's could be, and are supposed to be. But am honestly extremely bored with what they are. I KNOW, and always have known, that even though they may have a SERIOUS problem with sucking and being stale, and pretty much have since WOW, that one day, when the tech is right and someone finally makes it happen, we're going to have the greatest game in the world, and it will be an MMO. It HAS to happen eventually. Idk when. But I've been waiting for that game for so long, and I guess I'll keep waiting for it, hoping that it's coming sooner than later.

[@johiahdoesstuff1614]

Having now played other MMOs coming from the perspective an Eve player. The accumulation of actual player skill, knowledge, etc, that you just described, is exactly what I'm hoping for in VR MMOs

[@yazuki-wolf]

Have you tried Elite Dangerous in VR? Playing that with a HOTAS has been the closest thing to accumulation of actual player skill for me. Unlike games where the person with the better ship "character stats" always wins. In Elite it really is all about your piloting skill. Large ships pack a punch, but they are less manuverable so a good pilot (even with a cheap ship) can fly in their blind spot and take them out without taking damage themselves. And there is so much to combat, that you never run out of things to learn.

[@sycoraz]

@@yazuki-wolf I wish that game was fun, looks really nice in vr tho

[@josiahcraft4721]

I completely agree with your view of a perfect vrMMO. I would love that!

[@Guylock]

Same.

[@cate01a]

yeah, games that have good difficulty and youre only held back by yourself. what comes to mind is getting over it with bennett foddy, and perhaps csgo and such - in both you have some tools and must master them. Getting proficient at them is a real treat, and then being good enough to enjoy the game is great

[@anne4922]

I love the way you always show love and support for the good things people create while never giving up an inch on the dream! We couldn't have dreamed up a better champion for VR enthusiasts ! thank you 💖

[@SteelRob21]

Melee combat at the level of boneworks/saints&Sinners in a massive online game is out of discussion due to requiring a monstrous internet connection to not getting object collision issues. Making an MMORPG focused on ranged combat could be a better choice to make a polished and visually satisfying combat experience. A sci-fi MMO where you fight using weapons, travel on vehicles, maybe also spaceships. Basically StarCitizen but VR (not exaggerated like Star Citizen of course).

[@christopherjones7023]

melee doesn't exclusively focus on strength. speed, accuracy, and technique are also important, and those CAN be simulated with vr controllers these days. Heck the wii-mote with motion plus gave us a good preview. force relies not just on mass, but acceleration my friend. how quickly are you picking up and/or changing speed and direction?

[@SteelRob21]

@@christopherjones7023 I agree, in fact games like Saints&Sinners have this I call "weight systems" that really makes you feel that you are using an heavy object etcetera... I think I badly explained what I meant, but I still get that my point Is not actually that good, I'll remove It from the comment.

[@tinytigre2657]

These theories for what a new mmorpg SHOULD be is a constantly fleshed out idea that many authors use. If you hit up the RPG side of books and dig deep for the real gold books, you can see these ideas that you are in a pod where it works your body by copying stuff you do in game or just makes you work by moving and it works your body. Also the ideas for just the skill based activities are not new but still amazing and would make a GREAT game, even if it wasn't VR it would still be an insane game.

[@spamuel98]

The lack of systems bloat was one of the main things I noticed and praised the game for. Instead of cramming as many secondary systems into the game to distract players from how limited the game actually is, Ramen fine tuned the systems they had until they sparkled.

[@Jeahy.]

Honestly amazing choice of music and editing at 09:40 to 13:49, Beautifully done. As a extreme VR enthusiasts this has sent shivers down my spine because I felt every second of what you said.

[@SylvainPOLLETVILLARD]

had to pause the video at 09:50 to check if the humming noise came from my house or the video

[@nostalgicnow6001]

I really really hope this game expands Throughout the years just to see how amazing and cool it could be at its best potential. Rue scape been out at least 16 years and I can still remember it 16 years ago when it was complete trash but I loved it as I do zenith

[@EQOAnostalgia]

I think RS is about 23 years old... time goes way too fast lol.

[@seeitwithchris1041]

loved this video and I am sooooo excited to see what the future brings with VR and MMO and really changing it up for the better. :)

[@Karzakus]

holy shit i had no idea this was out! I saw this game in like 2019 and joined their discord but I had no idea the game actually released

[@Beanie_The_Thrower]

9:40 I dig this, I really like this as an idea. I think grinding levels is something people who play MMOs like doing but being rewarded for genuine skill ontop of scaling damage from levels is an amazing idea.

[@timthorson52]

I question the need to scale damage and health with level, why not only gain abilities as you progress?

[@polandseaguller4918]

Ideas and execution are far far apart in game design

[@Dragonrage1oo1]

This is such an exciting time for vr! we may be witnessing the very first game of this style which may become one of the most predominant genres in the future of vr! i'm super excited looking to the future.

[@RoyHoy]

Nah. The game is gonna died.

[@NeinnLive]

@@RoyHoy reason?

[@RoyHoy]

@@NeinnLive People will get bored of playing it. Plus, the community might turn toxic.

[@NeinnLive]

@@RoyHoy hm… that’s a bit much guessing here. Do you have valid facts for these predictions? I mean you could say this about any freshly released game …

[@RoyHoy]

@@NeinnLive Predictions don't need facts.

[@zombiedragon9667]

I can't help but feel that if thrill's ideal vrmmorpg was made, more experienced players would exploit the crap out of newer ones.

[@TheLolzKnight]

Yeah, totally agree. It's why I feel it's important to always have an NPC component of the MMORPG that gives good rewards. Player economy is nice, but if EVE shows us anything, it's that given the chance there is always at least one assholes who will ruin the fun for a power trip. At least with a well fleshed out NPC economy there's a bottom to what the player economy can drive people to.

[@Fireflash180]

VR slavery.

[@HeyIts_Blocky]

@@Fireflash180 cant argue

[@Michael-kk3qx]

Log horizon

[@High-Tech-Geek]

Had similar thought: I'll study my cooking and sell food until some skill sword comes and just robs me blind.

[@generic4419]

I do like your vision for future vr MMOs. Mechanics and combat systems are super important for me and why I never got into MMOs as I got older. I enjoy grinding skill-based systems in order to get better and get rewarded for being better at the game not for playing for longer.

[@nightlycoltgaming408]

This aged like milk

[@lastwymsi]

Personally, if you want to see a MMORPG/ looter with a different formula that focused on gameplay, look at looter shooters like Destiny 2. For real. Abilities w/ subclasses not locked behind grind, randomly rolled loot grind, raid & dungeons, armors and stats that heavily influence how you play. I want THAT in VR. Imagine pulling our a sunbreaker hammer in VR? or a goldengun? What about tossing a nova bomb with your own hands? Instead of button mashing you learn how to use your kit & THAT is what makes you able to defeat high level stuff.

[@KiingCrow]

Thrill literally described the perfect vrmmorpg, i would love a world that is truly built around and by the players...

[@zig131]

Ultimately though objects have to have stats and abilities though right? What decides what those are. Can someone make a piece of armour that is just a plain white box but grants the wearer 500,000 armour? To me this is the big plot hole with the Oasis of ReadyPlayerOne. If everyone can make stuff, what makes a given item special or powerful? What is to stop someone coding/creating an item like the Catalyst? Even if you say build an algorithm that judges how cool something looks that system is going to have a bias that can be played to/exploited. You can't have an RPG without numbers, and it's just not going to possible to extract those numbers from the ~analogue inputs of the players without creating a system that can be picked apart and exploited.

[@camdenddelgallo9611]

@@zig131 they would make systems too balance that, like in the game potion master you can craft crazy potions and its a matter of skill and ingredients, so all it requires is a good system

[@zig131]

@@camdenddelgallo9611 But how is the skill measured? If it's a specific set or accurate movements then people will emulate the required controller inputs/movements and bot it. And what makes the ingredients so special/rare? You run into the same problems.

[@thegamerdoingthething1084]

10:32 i think this is a great idea and i think a good way to do it is to have a magic system of runes where you draw shapes and symbols with your hand a combining them would do different spells or buffs, and they way that the player would learn these runes would be by learning them through out the game by having certain npc teach you them and to not to keep things too focused on magic stuff for a sword wielder a cool idea would be swinging your swords in a specific pattern (kinda like a beat saber rhythmic thing) and the more accurate you are the more damage (and maybe some buffs) you'll do and to learn these sword skills would be the same way with magic

[@TheOrganicartist]

11:00 your vision for the future of VR mmo spellcasting, jobs, etc has been what I have dreamed about for decades.

[@SecondCrafts]

This game you explained sounds like a dream come true

[@maxwolf8559]

I think you are correct about the formula change, I am pretty sure how such a system would work but, our current problem is that we simply don't have the technology to make it as immersive as we would like. I personally like the system used in the Ascend Online books (by Luke Chmilenko) which still has some leveling and grinding aspects but are also more realistic. Similarly most new skills and abilitys have to be physically discovered instead of given.

[@slapthekillswitch]

I like the idea of the game more than the game itself. I will try it again when it leaves early access.

[@Jckfrbn]

Ya game is kinda hot garbage atm, good ideas though

[@zig131]

Honestly I feel it is worth picking up already and playing casually. It's great to just jump in, set yourself a target to reach a tear, complete a quest, or take part in a world event and then do other stuff until it calls to you again. The levelling experience/long game may not be great but the moment-to-moment gameplay is genuinely fun and I think at it's price tag it represents really good value. If you treat it like your new MMO obsession you're not going to have a great time, but as a game you dip-in-and-out-of it's great and the pricing structure supports that. If you're paying a sub you incentivised to play it as your primary game but Zenith is just a one-off cost.

[@sycoraz]

@@Jckfrbn hot garbage does not describe the fun I've had in this game lol, disagree heavily

[@TheTom-Saunders]

a VR mmorpg like sword art online would be practically perfect. Its my dream to experience something like SAO!

[@CrystalLynn1988]

There is a man on KZbin named Jasony he is creating a super detailed VR SAO game. He makes videos on the game progress, as far as I know he intends on making a complete recreation of aincrad. I recommend checking it out, it may interest you if you're an SAO fan.

[@TheTom-Saunders]

@@CrystalLynn1988 Already on it, I've been watching him for a while 😁

[@qbdanan1]

definitely gotta check this game out! Awesome video btw, the clip climbing the building really opened my eyes to what this game can offer

[@christiantsalidis824]

I've been wanting to create an experience like this for a while - I've coded for VR before and I've also done multiplayer. I think I might start working on it soon, and maybe have devlogs where people can comment and give feedback on fixes/ new ideas :D

[@anileator7343]

I disagree with your comparison between orbus and zenith, I have been an alpha tester in alpha and i own orbus and i think that the real difference between them is how few options orbus has for abilities and things, for the most part in orbus it is just one movement except for the mage. whereas zenith has different motions for each ability and a lot more freedom with how you use them. I also think that zenith has a higher level for mastery because you can combine abilities in different ways while in orbus its essentially the same ability that has some variations in its effect. I also think that the scenery and graphics in general for zenith are far more beautiful and diverse. I would also like to add that as a alpha/beta tester of zenith the game has improved massively in the last year and especially in the last few months. while zenith is not my perfect game either I think it is a huge step up from orbus and a step in the right direction. (ps, if you want to see a more vr oriented vrmmorpg look at illysia as supposedly it is going to incorperate things that are only possible in vr more than zenith and is going to be less similar to traditional mmos than zenith.

[@TKPKidd]

the concept you explained kinda sound like how the GTA community runs GTA RP servers, so this form of MMO defiantly exist, its just the matter of translating it to VR and getting AAA level backing.

[@smittyvanjagermanjenson182]

Zenith was backed by 10 million dollars. They got it stable and launched it, way more is definitely on the way with it. The game is only a few weeks old, just give it time.

[@Achridian]

Zenith is such a fun game in my opinion. I bought the game the day it came out after hearing about it literally the day before the official launch. I started messing around in there and eventually stumbled across a group of people that were hanging out. I just started following them and before long, we'd formed a party and were raiding the dungeon in the fractured plains. It was so cool to have the proximity chat feature, to just be able to walk up and have a real conversation with people all across the globe, and I've had a ton of fun socializing on there. Top tier game imo, and honestly the combat is a lot more fun than most mmorpgs, it feels much more involved.

[@lostandakimbo8138]

seeing this video a year later puts in perspective how much zenith has changed but also how the vr mmo world has changed. With new innovative vr mmos on the horizon and zenith adding loads of new content as well as soon adding features like player housing and the long awaited cyber ninja class, I think that whats really interesting in this video is your vision for the future of vr mmos. While I understand that of course we all want to eventually have an equivalent to SAO GGO or even the underworld, I don't know whether to find it interesting that most people want to have a vr mmo that is essentially like real life but in a fantasy world and work and make money and others who want more of a button mashing gamy vibe in a realistic setting. I think that it really speaks to the fact that some people have an innate, possibly un-realized desire to just escape from the world we are in. I can't say I blame people who do but it opens up to an interesting psychological question about how vr worlds affect people and how more immersive vr worlds could affect people. What I mean by this is that when you really think about it. Most young people today had to enter a three year lockdown in which they continued to socialize and live their lives through the window of the internet. For my self and many others across the country and the world, half of my life is virtual. I've made friends in the virtual world of the internet that I talk to, play games with, and video chat with on the daily. I think that rather than looking at an ever evolving VR world as an escape, we should look at it as an extension of ourselves. An extension into the virtual world that connects us all through wires and radiowaves. Sword Art Online brought up an interesting philosophical question. Your reality is whichever one you are in presently. You could be in a virtual private room with friends reading this after seeing this video, or you could be seeing this through AR glasses, maybe you're just reading it sitting at your desk top. Either way, your reality is where you currently are. A similar saying being that , "home is where the heart is." The VR world is a powerful psychological experiment which needs to be studied.

[@secondcut3138]

This aged like milk 😂

[@xToTaLBoReDoMx]

Here's the problem with your ideal MMO: the base layer of VR is software. It's extremely difficult to emulate some skilled profession like cooking or architectural design in a non-gimmicky way (otherwise every company would probably do this to train their employees). People will eventually realize that code is the best way to interact with the game, and the game will be dominated by people with the best scripts or external programs that interface with the game engine directly (see Minecraft world editors or second life's scripting engine for example).

[@otheraccount312]

Games do a pretty good job of fighting bots for the most part

[@Ikxi]

So you wouldn't be able to play a class if you aren't good enough in reallife? Isn't that totally not what games are for? Games should allow you to do things that you couldn't do in reallife, make you feel epic. You shouldn't just be able to do the things that you can already do. Also what if you have a disability in reallife and want to play games to be able to still experience those things?

[@CounttlessYT]

I went off on a tangent so if you end up reading it all, then goddamn. Nice one ig man. You just love reading lmao. Btw this is about things MMOs could do better if they are added. (I also noticed a lot of English errors which I genuinely cannot be arsed to fix. Much love, Kauntt Item -> Submit -> Gets Added to all Player Vendors and have their name personalised on it -> Can be bought with in-game currency or actual money, which then lets say majority of that money goes to the creator and some goes to the company. Not only does this add more items and stuff to the game, it lets creators literally have their own items added into a game which players love to play. There are so many things I can think of going wrong about this, but every problem has a solution, which comes with another problem and solution, so if you are reading this, I know. I KNOW. I have already thought about a dozen problems for each of the things I have mentioned.

[@CounttlessYT]

Addition to my comment, the last i promise. Survivability: This can be a harsh addition to MMOs and maybe or may not ruin the game. However it may also add more interaction and desperation to be prepared for boss battles, raids or just exploration / grinding. Adding stats like hunger, thirst, stamina, mana, temp etc etc is one thing that gives interaction for players to watch out for before going into combat, ofc this can all be negated when in pvp combat so it allows a fair fight, unless the devs wanna be brutal and make the player who has reduced movement, damage, health etc to be a victim to slaughter then sure, go ahead. However, adding this literally has so much more to offer the game, it makes the player having to prepare potions, blessings to remove debuffs or something (like skyrim), or environments that either makes the player slower as they get colder or deal less damage or have less stamina as they get hotter, such as in Blizzards or near Volcanic / fire biomes, you get the gist. If you played Genshin then you understand what I am getting at, which most people may have played anyway. Having all this can make you dying while on exploration to another area or city much harder, and if you have a mechanic that lets you fly or swim, then you wont be able to if you are so low on these stats. Removing fast travel but adding a way to go from A to B in a short period would be a nice addition, unless its on another level or something. Having injuries involved would be a nice addition, such as crippled leg makes you slower or crippled arm make you unable to swing your sword or cast magic accurately so you miss and so forth, this additions makes the game A WHOLE lot more better, instead of slash slash, pew pew. Having debuffs on a short timer in boss fights seems boring, instead I think they should be severely longer and actually need a remedy for them, such as a healing potion heals and makes an injury slightly better, thats it, whereas an antidote cures poison, paralysis etc, then maybe a blessing or some other can remove curses than are permanent debuffs that are harder to remove and stuff. Obviously having all this in a singular game may get complicated, but having it as a way where a new player learns it as time goes on rather than it all being shoved in their face over 10 or less minutes. So the basics of sword attacks and magic casting comes first then a few missions or so the player is in a hot or cold biome, which then they are taught about the survival stats etc. Slowly introducing them to this wouldn't be overwhelming and doing it in a smooth and steady way would build an amazing player base and those who prepare and setup for raids, bosses etc ahead of time. Like instead of grinding none stop, make it so its a survival, skill based game with levels, skills, items and potions, rather than over grind for levels constantly for better gear as fast as possible.ously having all this in a singular game may get complicated, but having it as a way where a new player learns it as time goes on rather than it all being shoved in their face over 10 or less minutes. So the basics of sword attacks and magic casting comes first then a few missions or so the player is in a hot or cold biome, which then they are taught about the survival stats etc. Slowly introducing them to this wouldn't be overwhelming and doing it in a smooth and steady way would build an amazing player base and those who prepare and setup for raids, bosses etc ahead of time. Like instead of grinding none stop, make it so its a survival, skill based game with levels, skills, items and potions, rather than over grind for levels constantly for better gear as fast as possible.

[@infiniterune7101]

Honestly massive props for acknowledging the existence of Orbus. SO many people just conveniently forget that it exists when talking about games like these because I guess not being to say its the first VRMMO is a bit inconvenient. I now its a low bar but its one that a shockingly high number of people seem to fail to pass. also what you described with magic is almost EXACTLY how it works in Orbus. you are physically drawing spells in the air to cast them and it is a completely skill based task that rewards thousands of hours of practice before you can feel at all proficient at it. different ways of casting spells are found all of the time and basically noone casts fireball in the exact same way.

[@JustADadsValorantAcademy]

I actually didn't really like this game it felt very clunky and I couldn't get attacks to activate properly. But I loved the cooking and random stuff to do

[@AcencialAMV]

Kind of a bad take about FFXIV, since the whole point of end game is being social and doing whatever you want, it's not a gear treadmill game. Main activities for most people in FFXIV are fashion, housing, social events and doing stuff like that. The raiding/gear hunting is like 20%

[@ButterNuss.]

Jeah, he clearly has not played the game.

[@TMFMango]

They ruined this game

[@T.POT96]

Thank you so much for the effort you put into your videos, they give me a smile I don't try for.. its not a normal one, but I'm still smiling

[@kitonazento6136]

It's okay but if it's not taking my brain waves hostage then I'm gonna wait

[@tjpj39]

Bro your ideas for the future of this game are so dope

[@Cryptic_Orbit]

Okay, but if there was spell crafting in any sort of vr mmorpg I would be immediately on that train, that would be so so so much fun!!

[@lucas23453]

All these people be like "OMG SAO is finally here!" Me: "T-Tome?"

[@shadowcolossus8045]

Yeah I’ve said as long as I can remember it’s not a game itself that’s usually that good, it’s the amount of potential and freedom in that game that make it fun to play with your friends and crack jokes at

[@zachb2046]

This game barely has 100 people playing at any time, I got this on release. It went from a packed world to an empty painting

[@Arcin321]

Yeah it's a wasteland at this point lol. Hard to even find people so little play.

[@zachb2046]

@@Arcin321 it's still fun to pop in once in a while but trying to do any of the group quests is impossible. half the players are psycho's that'll call u n-words and wanna bang moms

[@nikoroytio]

I actually enjoy this change of pace what you are doing in your reviews. I hate what most of the VR youtuber community has become. Most of youtubers just "review" the game to the point that they say it´s amazing and must have and etc. Never any actual flaws or good reviews of mechanics. It´s nice to see that there is still someone, who actually tries to review VR related things and it´s not only about hyping things up for no reason.

[@bry.7z]

Seeing tangible numbers go up with skills that usually isn't so varied in skill and measure is much more satisfying

[@Cable3386]

6:28 “crossplay and crossbuy between all of them” so if I get the steam version, do I get the quest version too? Or do I have to buy both? I just preordered a quest 3 and this is one of the first games I’ll be getting for it, so I wanna know which platform I should be buying it for.

[@sebastian86999]

just got my quest 3 and was wondering the same thing

[@whales388]

The crossbuy only applies to the Oculus platform; if you buy the standalone version on your Quest, then you will automatically have the Oculus PCVR version for free. If you buy it on Steam, then you won’t be able to use the Oculus versions, since, different platforms.

[@sebastian86999]

thats what i thought thanks for clarifying @@whales388

[@CoffeeCode3D]

your idea sounds amazing i hope the devs see this or someone out there sees it who will take the idea and run with it

[@Rrek]

get this man more views. make it viral so we can see these ideas professionally executed

[@tropicalvikingcreations]

Hmmm... I remember watching this when it was first being built and it only had a few interior room levels. Nice to see it was able to expand and gather a community. This was a very nice analysis on the game and VR as a whole. Also in reference to the comment about not having a skill level as you improve your drawing ability, as a level 3 intermediate artist, Idk about that one chief.

[@cecilwhinter]

How long until life is complete VR? People are more willing to do chores in video games format so how long until we get to work in VR & live in VR do you guys think?

[@chasesommer]

Thrill... you may be inspiring to become a VR MMORPG developer. I want to recreate that feeling of playing World of Warcraft in the early days and VR is the closest I've felt to that feeling in the last 10 years. I think there's something there.

[@AtomicAdam13]

I'm excited to see where VRMMO's are going to evolve.

[@clara_cross]

I love your vision for an idealized VR MMO. That sounds absolutely glorious.

[@Legoldos]

i dont because it sounds like real world

[@Eightblock08]

Honestly I can’t believe the possibilities for the game that could just happen within one year

[@Grimsikk]

I just recently opened my Quest 2 and just got Zenith yesterday. I've already sunk a ton of hours in it, but taking my time on leveling, it's just.... such a wonderful experience. I am, of course, an absolute SAO fanboy that has the Beater coat and blade, and I unashamedly love fighting monsters like a total badass edge lord lol. One of my favorite experiences already was seeing a stranger getting destroyed by an enemy, so I rushed in and saved their life with some unnecessarily flashy sword strikes, waved at them and dipped out. I think Zenith may just be my favorite VR game already, alongside Tea For God.

[@bigbalticbox]

Whilst Zenith isn't enough to get me to buy it, I have been and will continue to eagerly await the real life Sword Art Online. Ever since seeing that anime when I was 14, until now where I'm 22, I've wanted a game to be a literal virtual reality. A mirror of our world, if you will. Something that can utilize everything about a player, such as in the first episode where the main character describe imagining the ability they wish to use, and then projecting that into the game and having it work. Obviously not so complicated, but just the fact that you would be able to do anything with your body would make an MMO extremely engaging. Dangerous, in a sense, but it would be a milestone in entertainment for sure.

[@wisgarus]

I think it'd be sick for a future VRMMORPG to have mechanics be quite a bit reliant on actual player skill and physical technique while things that are more traditional and numbers based are dependent on profficiency and how much you've used a specific skill or weapon as opposed to just having simple level ups and more linear progression, so that there's a lot of value in even just practicing against a good old training dummy. I feel like that'd add a lot to the immersion. What you described is quite similar, and I love that people are getting the same ideas. It's also interesting how the world design in general will be different in future VRMMOs compared to desktop/console MMO games. Like, maybe the dungeons will have more room for social interaction and messing around with the environment or smth, just as an example. And man, I think it'd be a bit ridiculous, but super damn interesting if there's quests or areas or anything that requires a lot of physical labor. Like say, climbing a mountain that requires you to constantly be moving your arms kinda like how Boneworks' ladder. Also, I do wonder if AI will come into play in building game worlds, especially MMORPG worlds, a decade or two from now. Not to mention populating it. Having NPCs that you can actually talk to properly would be a dream come true. Who knows how long something like that may take though.

[@gothboi4ever]

Gotta love that RuneScape music 😎

[@setMaddy]

Loved talking to strangers in Zenith. Socializing with people is my fav aspect of VR, and Zenith does it fairly well. Me and some strangers cooking, talking, and just bein goofballs is what made it a fun time. When I'm alone it's sorta lackluster, but it's still alright. The people are indeed what makes it.

[@sul.7900]

Very excited to see what comes next in VR. Great video

[@crazyfox5491]

wow honestly i truly support your idea of a new mmo rpg genre,it actually sounds so cool,i think it would be cool to open something like a workshop in an mmo prg where real players would come to buy your weapons or stuff like that but it would need lots of producting i think,hope this happens i nthe future when vr mmo rpgs get a bit more popular

[@Thaldor_]

"Full-dive'ing into my thoughts" ... I see what you did there. Hope to catch you online, my friend, I'm gonna give my healer another crack!

[@alexbenton5183]

Hey there's a comic on tapas that has something similar to what you're explaining, where people who are good at something are good at it in the vrrpg. Main character is a physical laborer and he's great at doing things that include a lot of physical labor such as blacksmithing

[@kairi4640]

Tbh, that thought experiment is really just what sword art online was aiming at with individuals that could work really hard at making something good and customizing it to be like irl, like when Asuna did experiments with cooking to get the desired taste etc. Would be really cool if we could live long enough to see it. I think gen z might be able to witness full dive in their old age...

[@AspenFrostt]

when or if finger tracking becomes a standard in vr then the spellcasting with hand gestures and proper movement and timing could be amazing. the delicate craftsmanship in making swords and staffs could be amazing and learning potions and what not that are sold on markets as you pay players to go gather resources for you could be an amazing way to keep the player based econemy flowing. i havent tried the game out yet but seeing players working in a job with other players as customers is making me really think about how cool a way more fleshed out version of something like this could be.