The Linguistic Magic of the Opening to the Hobbit

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Digital Tolkien Project

Digital Tolkien Project

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 225
@OneEyeShadow
@OneEyeShadow Жыл бұрын
Reading the Hobbit at a rate of 10 minute mini essay per sentence.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
I can if you really want me to :-)
@olafboer3435
@olafboer3435 Жыл бұрын
​@@digitaltolkienyes please
@NealBones
@NealBones Жыл бұрын
​@digitaltolkien If you do, you should have it all put into text and reach out about using your notes in study versions of Tolkien's work 😁
@thecurse3067
@thecurse3067 Жыл бұрын
@@digitaltolkienit would be funny if you did
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
other things we're doing at the Digital Tolkien Project come close
@Merione
@Merione Жыл бұрын
What I love about the Hobbit's opening is how "cinematic" it feels. It starts by describing a "hole in the ground", like in a close up shot in a movie, and then the camera "zooms in", following the corridors of Bilbo's home and describing the interior, until finally we get to Bilbo himself. It could just as well be a movie for how it's carefully described. I just love how information is revealed slowly and how it logically flows from one sentence to the next. Also, the whole idea of starting the story by "entering" a hole in the ground is a brilliant way of introducing new readers to the new, fantastical world of Middle-Earth. In a way it's like in Alice in Wonderland, where the reader follows Alice from the "real" world through the rabbithole and discovers a completely new world on the other side. Awesome!
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Exactly! That’s a great way to put it!
@mick-ericboettge8683
@mick-ericboettge8683 Жыл бұрын
I adore Tolkien's writing style. It's like he's consciously in conversation with the reader, almost as if he told you a story at a camp fire. And there's a flow to it that reads like music, like with that long windup of building suspense between "one morning long ago" and then finally the release of "Gandalf came by."
@theinternetisameme
@theinternetisameme Жыл бұрын
This tracks, I've always felt like Tolkien's work is best experienced read out loud.
@HappyBeezerStudios
@HappyBeezerStudios Жыл бұрын
That is basically the lore behind the stories. Tolkien wrote them because a language is nothing without the people who speak them. So he made people who speak them. And he basically translated them from the common speech of middle earth.
@shogunbirds6589
@shogunbirds6589 Жыл бұрын
He actually wrote The Hobbit to originally be a series of children's stories, but that didn't work out so well because of the times he lived in.
@bartolomeothesatyr
@bartolomeothesatyr Жыл бұрын
Professor Tolkien had been inventing languages his entire adult lifetime; what became the Elvish Quenya and Sindarin languages are first attested in notebooks of his going back as far as 1910, years before his service in World War 1, @@shogunbirds6589 You're right that The Hobbit was a child's story, it evolved out of stories he told his own children, but he had been developing the languages and legendarium of Middle Earth that led to Lord of the Rings since well before he had any children.
@purelightapologetics4930
@purelightapologetics4930 Жыл бұрын
There are really only two other opening lines to books I’ve read that are on this level: 1. “There once was a boy called Eustace Clarence Scrub and he almost deserved it.” - The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, C.S. Lewis 2. “It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife.” - Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Two of my other favourites too!
@lordomacron3719
@lordomacron3719 Жыл бұрын
“Call me Ishmael” - Moby Dick. Despite being a big Tolkien fan. The opening of Moby Dick is the most iconic opening sentence for me. Not as subtle or nuanced as the other examples but unforgettable nonetheless.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
@@lordomacron3719 agreed that Moby Dick's opening is amazing. The whole book is amazing!
@VaryaEQ
@VaryaEQ Жыл бұрын
Poor Eustace Scrub. 😅
@purelightapologetics4930
@purelightapologetics4930 Жыл бұрын
@@VaryaEQ Nah. Everyone treated him so well even when he was a brat. He deserved that name-at least until he was undragoned.
@voodoochild1975az
@voodoochild1975az Жыл бұрын
This gets to heart of a rant I often make about Tolkien.... Ignoring the brilliant story and unmatched world building... The man could WRITE. His prose, his use of the English language are worthy of their own study. This is Literature. Capital L.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
My MA dissertation was on his prose and use of the English language, so I totally agree they're worthy of their own study. And the Digital Tolkien Project focuses a lot on that too.
@voodoochild1975az
@voodoochild1975az Жыл бұрын
@@digitaltolkien then I have found a genuine expert and a good channel, subbing....
@ecyor0
@ecyor0 Жыл бұрын
Another thing this does which i think is quite neat, is that right out the gate it frames Bilbo as an extension of the house he lives in rather than the other way around, which is VERY in keeping with how hobbits are portrayed throughout Tolkien's work.
@twidman8882
@twidman8882 Жыл бұрын
I looked once at thematic correlation between Tolkien’s ‘Good Morning’ conversation and Dickens’ ‘Good Afternoon’ in A Christmas Carol years ago…now want to look again linguistically. Always fascinating to see how Tolkien’s linguistic expertise shines through and adds to the narrative!
@Zarith7480
@Zarith7480 Жыл бұрын
Makes me want to re read the whole book everytime I come across those opening passages
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Do it!
@VanDerHaegenTheStampede
@VanDerHaegenTheStampede Жыл бұрын
Wow, as a non-native speaker of English, I've always been fascinated by the English language for its unique blend of Germanic and Romance (Neo-Latin) influences. It's incredible how English has developed its own morphological and grammatical nuances thanks to this mix. And you're absolutely right about J.R.R. Tolkien's impact on English. I find it intriguing that Tolkien, while not primarily aiming for a direct "Germanization" of English, left an indelible mark through his meticulous attention to linguistic detail and deliberate use of archaic and Germanic elements in his literary creations. That's similar to how authors like Dante Alighieri (Italian), Luís de Camões (Portuguese), Antonio de Nebrija (Spanish), and François Rabelais (French) enriched their respective Romance languages with Classical Latin influences. It's fascinating to see how language and literature evolve over time! Becoming fluent in English while already being fluent in a Romance language (Portuguese) has truly opened my eyes to the beauty of Western Literature.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Yes, Tolkien had mastery over the Germanic vs Latinate aspects of the English language.
@EtherBotGames
@EtherBotGames Жыл бұрын
im legitimately astounded to see this is the first proper video on this channel. i want more !
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
I honested didn't expect my first video to take off like this has but I'm inspired by comments like yours to continue!
@trigoweiqi
@trigoweiqi Жыл бұрын
Somehow this breaks all conventions about “proper” storytelling. - This makes me wonder if nowadays the book would be rejected by publishers because its start is too slow and gives too much “unnecessary” backstory. - And still, we all love the book!
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
It would be an interesting study across lots of books just how far in before the narrative mainline starts
@colbyboucher6391
@colbyboucher6391 Жыл бұрын
One of my favorite books as a kid was the first in a series. It was about a guy renting a room in the house of a woman who makes clay dragons for a living. The whole book was a slow-burn "wait what the hell are these dragons alive?" thing, and in practice it was 90% slice-of-life 10% "pretty sure that dragon was on the other side of the table before." Then it had to go and get all epic and I stopped caring.
@fizzycube3
@fizzycube3 Жыл бұрын
@@colbyboucher6391 oh i know exactly which one you are talking about!
@lemonmilk677
@lemonmilk677 Жыл бұрын
⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@colbyboucher6391 I swear I read a book like that years ago… Do you remember the title?
@colbyboucher6391
@colbyboucher6391 Жыл бұрын
@@lemonmilk677 Would've said it if I remembered :/
@Artur_M.
@Artur_M. Жыл бұрын
I've read the works of Tolkien in my youth, but I did so in my native Polish, in the translation by Maria Skibniewska. A couple of years ago I had an idea to go back to them, but in their original English version. Instead I started reading books of other authors, that I haven't read before; first by Ursula Le Guin, then Brandon Sanderson. Reading foreign literature in the original language is a very interesting and rewarding experience. Going back to Tolkien is still on my list, and this video feels like an encouragement to finally get on with it.
@lore_house
@lore_house Жыл бұрын
I hope you find a wonderful Tolkien community in Polish and in English to connect with! They are very special books.
@ganymede242
@ganymede242 Жыл бұрын
This is great. I had no patience with English Literature lessons at school. If only it had been taught this way.
@victorfinberg8595
@victorfinberg8595 Жыл бұрын
those words were delicious to read, back in the day, and every time i read them again ... and your words, examining those words in their structural detail, are also delicious.
@B4rry16
@B4rry16 Жыл бұрын
That second shelf on the bookcase is holding on for dear life
@fuferito
@fuferito Жыл бұрын
"Gilgamesh, who saw all, who was the foundation of the land;" _"Sing, oh Muse of the rage of Achilles;"_ "So. The Spear-Danes in days gone by and the kings who ruled them had courage and greatness;" _"When half way through the journey of our life · I found that I was in a gloomy wood;"_ "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times;" *_"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit."_*
@DackxJaniels
@DackxJaniels Жыл бұрын
You forgot "Call me Ishmael."
@jakariashafin1695
@jakariashafin1695 Жыл бұрын
People die when they are killed?
@enmaranadomusnavacrunatus3788
@enmaranadomusnavacrunatus3788 Жыл бұрын
riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodious vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs...
@eliodoroblackmore6696
@eliodoroblackmore6696 Жыл бұрын
This literary technique is usually seen in 19th-century literature as well. The differences are that 20th-century fiction uses this as the way you describe it and to slow down rhythm by not being direct with a narrative flow (also called digression), while in authors like Dumas, Melville, and Flaubert it was used in a more traditional, worldbuilding sense; hence why in today's age is, sadly, considered a common place to begin a story describing a location. It's a technique no author should miss in their toolbox. Surely Tolkien was a master of this craft.
@nicholassinnett2958
@nicholassinnett2958 Жыл бұрын
The "existential there" probably also has something to do with Tolkien's background in Old English. Old English frequently had "verb-second" clauses where certain adverbs of time and place displaced the subject, like "þær bleowon windas" ("there blew winds") and "swa eode his sunu hamweard" ("so went his son homeward"), but we only have a few remnants of it today, like the "existential there" and some poetic constructions. Considering that Tolkien taught Old English, and he took a lot of obvious inspiration from Old English texts in his Middle-Earth works, I wouldn't be surprised if he was deliberately trying to give the vibe of Anglo-Saxon writing.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
It's more broadly Germanic influence I would say, which is also captured in the fairy tale tradition. Consider Hans Christian Andersen's "der var engang" or the Grimms' "es war einmal"
@juliantheapostate8295
@juliantheapostate8295 Жыл бұрын
​@digitaltolkien I find it surprising that you're trying to gloss over Tolkien's intent with his work
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
@@juliantheapostate8295 what exactly do you think I'm glossing over?
@tolkienexplained
@tolkienexplained Жыл бұрын
Sometimes it feels like the live process of him having an idea and just shooting it into the text. And I love it. Great vieo
@Tenebrobscur
@Tenebrobscur Жыл бұрын
Great analysis! I felt myself drawn to my copy of the book while listening to you (to the dismay of my endless to-be-read pile) The first chapter of the Hobbit always fills me with such a joy
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
I love that my video is having this effect!
@cyberoptic5757
@cyberoptic5757 Жыл бұрын
Rills & Gorse! Tolkien's writing still delivers, even after annual re-reads for 50 years. His vocabulary and descriptions of the natural world and plants will delight you. One finds new - or forgotten -words with each re-read. I still need the dictionary for word definitions when I read Tolkien.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
It's still early days but you might want to keep an eye on glossary.digitaltolkien.com/
@cyberoptic5757
@cyberoptic5757 Жыл бұрын
@@digitaltolkien thank you! I will. Also willing to assist with some chores. Thanks & let me know -
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
That'd be great! Feel free to join our discord!
@jesnoggle13
@jesnoggle13 Жыл бұрын
Iv always loved that first few paragraphs of “The Hobbit “. Now I know why. TY
@noahsteigerwald4123
@noahsteigerwald4123 Жыл бұрын
Fantastic. We need more
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Thank you! I assure you more is coming. It'll be slow at first due to some of my other teaching obligations but stay tuned for lots more!
@lsixty30
@lsixty30 Жыл бұрын
Subscribed ! I love seeing why art that is “just obviously good” actually IS so good 🎉
@lukedogwalker
@lukedogwalker Жыл бұрын
3:00 if you gave "ground" the indefinite article, suddenly it reads more like Tzun Zu and we're being asked to consider different states of ground, or different topographies, or ownership. "The ground" permits us to make assumptions and ignore it except as a convenient and logical backdrop. Otherwise it might have been a hole in a tree, or even the living room skirting board!
@Spoopball
@Spoopball Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the analysis, greatly appreciated the break down of the works
@orangejulius3546
@orangejulius3546 Жыл бұрын
That bookshelf is melting. You might want a new one soon.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Haha I know!
@lore_house
@lore_house Жыл бұрын
HA!
@adamjensen5891
@adamjensen5891 Жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed your analysis. I can’t wait to see what else you put out!
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@drake101987
@drake101987 Жыл бұрын
I find it interesting that the subject of the first sentence is familiar to the reader and then goes on to explain to the reader that they are not familiar with this hole. It causes the picture in my head to drastically shift and prepares my mind for what is to come. It is like an imagination primer.
@quinterbeck
@quinterbeck Жыл бұрын
There's even aspects of the prosody in this opening sentence you didn't touch on, like the stress timing of English encouraging a slowdown in the second half, and the alliteration of 'hole' and 'hobbit'
@executivetoad
@executivetoad Жыл бұрын
currently going through the LoTR books for the first time, (starting on the third book now) and the way they are written is just so special, isn't it? nothing i can really say that hasn't already been said but... damn are they a blast to read. great analysis! i will definitely watch out for those existential theres while i go :)
@Tasorius
@Tasorius Жыл бұрын
I read the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings at least once per year...
@executivetoad
@executivetoad Жыл бұрын
@@Tasorius hell yeah
@Tasorius
@Tasorius Жыл бұрын
@@executivetoad And I have found that there is something extra special about The Hobbit... A different feeling than the Lord of the Rings... Tolkien is great at short stories, I have found, after reading the few there are. I hope so much that Tolkien is still writing books and short stories, where ever he is now...
@festerbestertester1284
@festerbestertester1284 Жыл бұрын
Fabulous! Thank you for your love of Tolkien and for your knowledge of literature.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
You're very welcome! I can't claim to be that great at literature (I'm a corpus linguist and philologist, not a literary critic) but I certainly love Tolkien :-)
@rosie_gamgee
@rosie_gamgee Жыл бұрын
Wonderful analysis!
@TheGreeeen
@TheGreeeen Жыл бұрын
An interesting thing about this is, that someone like Tolkien would not think about writing like this, but it would come to them naturally, right? Nobody thinks about every word in every sentence the same way it is interpreted and analysed later on. For them, what sounds naturally and beautiful, is what they write, and since it is succesful it is then also viewed as natural and beautiful. Which produces authors trying to write like someone else, believing it makes them sound natural and beautiful when in fact what they should do is write in a way it sounds natural and beautiful to _them_. I think.
@martinmartin8940
@martinmartin8940 Жыл бұрын
It is possibly another level of linguistic description, but then again "There was ..." would also be a presentational topic, which shifts the focus of the receiver to the fact, that something completely new with little relation to the previous discourse is presented. But maybe it can't be preceded by a spatial/temporal adverbial to be called such, I don't remember...
@Rnankn
@Rnankn Жыл бұрын
“The world has changed. I see it in the water. I feel it in the Earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, For none now live who remember it.”
@SomeoneElse-fr8yu
@SomeoneElse-fr8yu Жыл бұрын
And I decided to make my conlang by translating The Hobbit and creating any words or grammer I didn't already have. And wow is it a doozie of a mission. I still haven't figured out the second sentence enough to understand how I want to translate it (without resorting to boring over-simplicity).
@wariolandgoldpiramid
@wariolandgoldpiramid Жыл бұрын
KZbin recommended me a nice video. Let's check out what else there is in this guy's large backlog --- wait, this is his first video? My gosh, KZbin is actually doing something right, and giving new channels a chance. I liked this. Now you're making me want to read Lord Of The Rings, and I've read the LOTR books.
@bardsolas
@bardsolas Жыл бұрын
"Someone must have been telling lies about Josef K., he knew he had done nothing wrong but, one morning, he was arrested." - Kafka, The Trial Supposedly extra interesting opening sentence in German
@Rombitekti
@Rombitekti Жыл бұрын
My favourite beginning of any book ever.
@YTEdy
@YTEdy Жыл бұрын
Thank you for that. As an aspiring writer, that was very interesting.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@mrsomebody5087
@mrsomebody5087 Жыл бұрын
I have a small suspicion that your video has been picked up by the algorithm...
@carl8752
@carl8752 Жыл бұрын
Lol yea
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
I'm quite surprised! It was my first video (other than a couple of live streams)
@ecyor0
@ecyor0 Жыл бұрын
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
@ScriptScience
@ScriptScience Жыл бұрын
Don’t think it’s been mentioned in the comments yet, but your analysis is absolute gold.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Thank you! In some ways I just scratched the surface and simplified some things but my goals was just to introduce some ideas to a general audience so I'm thrilled people are getting something out of it.
@ScriptScience
@ScriptScience Жыл бұрын
@@digitaltolkien if you ever decided to do the same thing but for other novels, like Stephen King or George RR Martin, I think a lot of people would be interested (myself included) and you’d kill it.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
I'm certainly planning on the tools we're developing at the Digital Tolkien Project being relevant to the study of other texts so doing videos on other texts is not out of the question at some point.
@vitriolicAmaranth
@vitriolicAmaranth Жыл бұрын
From a place called Nantucket there was a man.
@lore_house
@lore_house Жыл бұрын
😂😂😂
@rasmusn.e.m1064
@rasmusn.e.m1064 Жыл бұрын
And this bucket was where he kept his flan, As you see it's got mold, But the bucket is gold, So for now I'm keeping it, is the plan.
@felixfourcolor
@felixfourcolor Жыл бұрын
This beginning gives me the same vibe as the beginning of the Gospel of John in the New Testament: In the beginning was the Logos.
@Shlooomth
@Shlooomth Жыл бұрын
You remind me of my favorite reading teacher
@ImmersedGamer
@ImmersedGamer Жыл бұрын
Hi James. I’m James. Loved the video.
@krismckenzie7759
@krismckenzie7759 Жыл бұрын
How can I be so bad at grammar and still be fascinated by it?
@bluemanblue2316
@bluemanblue2316 Жыл бұрын
Yea! Cool video!
@MrBumbo90
@MrBumbo90 Жыл бұрын
I love this video!
@rursus8354
@rursus8354 Жыл бұрын
"Means" in the present tense doesn't indicate that the hobbit-holes exist now, it may indicate that the statement of equivalence is made now.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Very true, it could simply mean the equivalence applies now but the continued existence of hobbits is certainly suggested in the next few paragraphs and so the present tense could still be motivated by that. Either way a very interesting choice to go with the present even if just to say we the readers should take it to mean comfort.
@kutkuknight
@kutkuknight Жыл бұрын
Please can we get a 10 minute video for ever sentence of the hobbit plus lotr?
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Silmarillion too?
@kutkuknight
@kutkuknight Жыл бұрын
@@digitaltolkien of course
@Brick_One_A_Lego_Story
@Brick_One_A_Lego_Story Жыл бұрын
I also hope for videos from Unfinished Tales and hopefully they will be... finished:)
@NancyLebovitz
@NancyLebovitz Жыл бұрын
I'm noticing how many hints of more to be said that Tolkien throws in.
@DirtyBobBojangles
@DirtyBobBojangles Жыл бұрын
That pointer bothered me a lot longer and a lot more than i want to admit.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Sorry!
@Grace-24601
@Grace-24601 Жыл бұрын
I especially loved the comparison with Anne of Green Gables at the end! I always felt like Tolkien and Montgomery had similar spirits
@jeremytaylorfrancisgleaves3854
@jeremytaylorfrancisgleaves3854 Жыл бұрын
Awesome!!!
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Thanks!!
@artofdirecting
@artofdirecting Жыл бұрын
Bilbo is narrating his own story.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Clearly some of the narratorial intrusion is not Bilbo, though. Even with the frame of the Red Book, there can be allowance for Tolkien "as translator" to add stuff.
@charlesbelanger924
@charlesbelanger924 Жыл бұрын
That's my type of jam!
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Excellent! I hope I can keep delivering!
@uptonsavoie
@uptonsavoie Жыл бұрын
This opener is becoming as familiar to the world at large as "Call me Ishmael."
@alexavery311
@alexavery311 Жыл бұрын
I haven't read the books but a compelling video nonetheless!
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Definitely give them a go!
@carterpatterson1988
@carterpatterson1988 Жыл бұрын
In my opinion, the reason Tolkien writes in present tense about things is because it's from the perspective of Tom Bombadill
@nagoranerides3150
@nagoranerides3150 Жыл бұрын
Nice font for the excerpts; what is it?
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Thanks for noticing! It's Dante MT Pro which is the same typeface used in the limited edition Folio Society Lord of the Rings (where I fell in love with it)
@sameenshaw9670
@sameenshaw9670 Жыл бұрын
i read the hobbit but it was a translation of it in my native language so this makes me want to read the original!!!!
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
What did you read it in? Turkish?
@BoxySoxy
@BoxySoxy 2 күн бұрын
In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit
@cliffowens3629
@cliffowens3629 Жыл бұрын
Ann Maccaffre Pern series stated out Lessa woke cold.
@rursus8354
@rursus8354 Жыл бұрын
In Scandinavian we can easily say things like this: "I ett hål i marken, där bodde det en hobbit", where the inserted "det" is a V2-feature. These two examples indicate that the real grammar systems in our minds are semantic rather than syntactic, sorry Chomsky, but you're entirely wrong! (Although programmers profited from your CFG:s when constructing programming language parsers).
@thomassicard3733
@thomassicard3733 Жыл бұрын
The Hobbit is the greatest of the Middle Earth novels by Tolkien.
@SFDestiny
@SFDestiny Жыл бұрын
My first thought was to remove the expletive. I have decided it has functional as well as performative and formal functions. Taking the consideration to the level of "Chomsky" exceeds my knowledge and interest, but I'm curious about the nature-nurture workings. Do we highlight the existential issue because it signals the suspension of disbelief or mainly because it accords with our literary priors?🤔
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
It’s partly the information structure. The first sentence is about a hole and who lived there rather than a hobbit and where he lived. “A hobbit lived in a hole in the ground” messes with the introduction of new material and what’s initially being topicalized. Plus the current construction fits the literary convention of fairytales which might originally come from translation.
@SFDestiny
@SFDestiny Жыл бұрын
@@digitaltolkien we don't need to rearrange the subject, though. "In a hole in the ground lived a hobbit." Simply remove the "performative" expletive, 'there'. To my way of thinking this demonstrates the "meta grammatical" function of the existential expletive. Like in, "Is a fly in my soup? There is." The existential there functions to contrast against what is expected: No flies belong in food, and no hobbits live in holes.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I think the expletive is largely there to fit the fairytale construction, which also makes use of the topicalization of the location which, in turn fits the information presentation requirements.
@Tasorius
@Tasorius Жыл бұрын
Ah, the old perpetual disbelief syndrome. It's a common problem in humans. The cure is an open mind, but the temporary solution seems to be a strange "suspension"...
@aze4308
@aze4308 Жыл бұрын
woah
@Siegfried5846
@Siegfried5846 Жыл бұрын
Have you watched Wagner's ring with traditional (medieval-looking) stage design? You might like it the same as LOTR if not more
@emjizone
@emjizone Жыл бұрын
Here, *There* Be Dragons. ;D
@frankhooper7871
@frankhooper7871 Жыл бұрын
Damn! Now I'm minded to re-read The Lord of the Rings for the umpteenth time since I first read it back in the mid '60s LOL
@Woodledude
@Woodledude Жыл бұрын
Hmm... "In the hole in a ground, the hobbit there lived." Hmmmm.
@dizzydaisy909
@dizzydaisy909 Жыл бұрын
He just has adhd tbh that's how we talk (i have adhd i love talking in parentheticals)
@cube2fox
@cube2fox Жыл бұрын
Hobbit: hole rabbit
@psazani
@psazani Жыл бұрын
I think he wrote "I a hole in the ground there lived a rabbit", and his terrible penmanship made it look like 'hobbit'
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Haha! His penmanship was amazingly good when he wanted it to be
@chickenwings273
@chickenwings273 Жыл бұрын
Nah you're overanalyzing it
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
I'm a linguist. This is barely scratching the surface!
@mangounit9678
@mangounit9678 Жыл бұрын
on a channel on the internet there was a youtuber. after many years, he finally discovered grammar
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
I actually did my first linguistics degree 30 years ago.
@lore_house
@lore_house Жыл бұрын
Now it's your turn to discover capitalization! What a fun adventure lies before you! ❤
@mangounit9678
@mangounit9678 Жыл бұрын
@@lore_house impossible. im too belligerent to ever capitalize
@mangounit9678
@mangounit9678 Жыл бұрын
@@digitaltolkien yeah, i figured something similar was the case
Жыл бұрын
You're wrong. There is an adverb, the subject stills being a hobbit. The syntax is just dislocated. Do you want proof? "There sings a lady" "there sing the ladies" "there sings the ladies".
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
The standard analysis treats "there" as the syntactic subject, not an adverbial. See for example p.413 of Biber, Conrad, and Leech.
Жыл бұрын
@@digitaltolkien well they wrong, the proof is on the verb. I'm just applying linguistical knowledge.
Жыл бұрын
@@digitaltolkien to live doesn't accept accusative case "i live my girlfriend"
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
@Right. The phrase "a hobbit" is what's called the "notional subject" in Biber et al. It's not the object. But "there" is still distinct from the adverbial in these constructions. Look up "existential there" in any linguistically-informed grammar.
@sumdumbmick
@sumdumbmick Жыл бұрын
what in the hell are you talking about? 'live' is intransitive, and thus its only argument is its 'subject', and that is filled with 'a hobbit'. the rest is a locative adjunct. the syntax at play is simply that a noun is expected to open the clause scope, so when this isn't filled by the 'subject' noun itself the default 'th-' noun marker appears. but the thing that 'th-' is affixed to clearly shows us that it's coreferring to the prepositional phrase whose scope just closed, since the root that 'th-' is affixing to is the locative 'here'. this behaviour is extremely basic to English grammar, and 'th-' has a counterpart in 'wh-', for when the referent is unknown: - In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit.; due to this being introductory 'hole' and 'hobbit' are indefinite, but also singular, and thus gets the correspondingly marked noun marker which indicates those features, 'a(n)' - Where did the hobbit live?; here knowledge of the hobbit is established, so it gets 'the'. do-support results in the '-ed' aspect marker affixing to 'do' rather than 'live', and the location we're asking about gets marked with a 'wh-' prefix to indicate that it's the thing we're asking about. it also occurs on relative clauses, too. - This is the car that I saw.; 'saw' is a transitive verb, with two argument slots, so when relativized it tends to want to fill both of those slots. but it will typically be the 'object' slot which is fronted, and thus it will be a generic pronoun, 'it', with the 'th-' prefix, yielding the relativizer 'that'. you're partially correct in your analysis of the 'a(n)' marking 'hole' and 'hobbit', but not entirely. it's perfectly possible to introduce something with 'the': - The hole in the ground under the only tree for miles housed the hobbit, Bilbo Baggins. and it's perfectly possible to use 'a(n)' on already introduced things: - There's some freshly poured coffee on the table behind me. Please take a cup.; here 'a(n)' is only used after everything is established, and everything was established with 'the'... so... you clearly wrong, bruh. so... you kind of know what you're talking about, but also you have absolutely no idea wtf you're talking about, at the exact same time.
@sumdumbmick
@sumdumbmick Жыл бұрын
one might also note that the book's title is 'The Hobbit', and this is known to the reader before they begin reading the first line, so... the premise that the first line introduces hobbits, and this is why it's marked with 'a(n)' is simply absurd and contradictory to all available evidence. the title introduces us to hobbits first, and it's using 'the'. this means you're failing to comprehend the meaning of the most used words in English, but you're also so oblivious to this oversight that you feel you're in a position to educate others on how English works... that's just amazing, dude. god damn.
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Your response is almost assholic enough not to warrant a response but I will just note you seem ignorant of (or are just trolling by ignoring) the existential there analyses found in many grammars (I've cited Biber, Conrad, and Leech elsewhere) that my statements are consistent with. I don't disagree with your analysis of definiteness. There are a lot of subtleties not particularly relevant to the sentence in the Hobbit. Normally I'd love to discuss such things but in the case of you, I think I'll pass.
@j.samuelwaters81
@j.samuelwaters81 Жыл бұрын
Perhaps you are making too much hay out from mundane linguistic patterns. "There is a boil on my ass." Please, discuss how the 'existential there' of that statement evokes the magic and whimsy of fairytale 😂
@digitaltolkien
@digitaltolkien Жыл бұрын
Your example is missing the topicalized location and the "lived" verb so in no way evokes the fairytale pattern. Also this video discusses the first six paragraphs, not just the initial sentence. But hey, if you didn't like the video, just move on.
@curtiswfranks
@curtiswfranks Жыл бұрын
I notice similar introductory structure in 𝘏𝘢𝘳𝘳𝘺 𝘗𝘰𝘵𝘵𝘦𝘳 and Rothfuss' 𝘒𝘪𝘯𝘨𝘬𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘦𝘳. Not exactly the same, but they have similar feels.
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