THE LOBSTER KING: A GUIDE TO JORDAN PETERSON

PATREON: [www.patreon.co...]
MUSIC: [ / @izaakthomasmusic ]
TWITTER: [ / 5isyphus55 ]
SOURCES
Much of the philosophy section relied on a primary reading of Jordan Peterson's "12 Rules For Life"
Journal of Jungian Studies article
[brill.com/view...](brill.com/view...)
Peterson and the Lobster
[www.washington...](www.washington...)
Peterson's definition of postmodernism in relation to marxism
[www.jordanbpet...](www.jordanbpet...)
[notesonliberty...](notesonliberty...)
Bill C-16
[torontosun.com...](torontosun.com...)
[torontoist.com...](torontoist.com...)
[sds.utoronto.ca...](sds.utoronto.ca...)
[nationalpost.c...](nationalpost.c...)
[www.thestar.co...](www.thestar.co...)
Consequences of Peterson's Interpretation of Bill C-16 on Transgender individuals
[www.cbc.ca/cbc...](www.cbc.ca/cbc...)
Ben Burgis/Matt McManus Article
[jacobinmag.com...](jacobinmag.com...)
Foucault Quote
“On the Genealogy of Ethics: An Overview of Work in Progress.” Afterword, in Hubert L. Dreyfus and Paul Rabinow, Michel Foucault: Beyond Structuralism and Hermeneutics, 2nd ed. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. (1983)

[@Sisyphus55]

Wow I can’t believe how badly you misinterpreted him

[@rentristandelacruz]

I'm sorry Sisyphus 55 but the Lobster King's IQ is 9001. Any of your interpretations of Peterson's works is basically a misinterpretation unless you have an IQ comparable to his. JP is peak alpha male on top of the hierarchy. The beta lobsters will defend him at all cost. Game over son! (F in the chat).

[@MrKajithecat]

Hahaha massive damage control in the comments by his weird followers.

[@nachiketh3650]

I think this was a very well weighed

[@Donatello1337]

This was a pretty balanced perspective on him. I’m a big fan of JP’s work, but I’m still very left leaning. He’s an engaging teacher with some great life lessons. Not all of his fanbase are transphobic conservatives, and not all of his critics are radical SJWs. People really should stop using low resolution generalisations of him, his followers, and his critics. (refer to comment section of this video)

[@grayevan5200]

I'm so confused bc this is literally you😂, prior to making this video did you know a lot about JP? How do you personally feel about him as an individual? I always enjoy the content even if sometimes I'm not fully on board with the perspective, keep up the good work!!

[@KickYouInTheThroat]

Quick shoutout to everyone who took Peterson to heart and turned their lives around. I know this guy has helped a lot of people who needed a push.

[@AwesometownUSA]

Yeah, nice, I totally agree - it’s def a GOOD thing that totally pointless people with skulls full of applesauce start thinking they actually add any value to the world - it’s so rad dude, ur so right

[@ryanhuestis2955]

@@AwesometownUSA labeling anybody who finds Peterson helpful and who used him as a catalyst to improve their lives as “people with skulls full of applesauce” You are part of the problem

[@twotimetony78]

@@AwesometownUSA hey bro, just relax maybe a tad?

[@trashspamaccount133]

@@AwesometownUSA at least applesauce has some value . While you and your opinion do not

[@kevinz2738]

@@AwesometownUSA It's funny how you reply to this, a completely well intentioned comment that does not look for debating or insult anyone. It's like you are so used to the madness and hostility that is youtube comment sections, reddit, etc, that when you see a comment like this, you feel uncomfortable and the urge to insult someone or try to spark that little fire that makes people like me and other reply. We could say then, that you succeded in your goal. This way of thinking and reacting to simple goodness is really sad, and I hope you at some point, are able to take some time off from the madness and chaos of the internet and stop being so hostile toward others with no reason at all.

[@kurtrosenthal6313]

Sisyphus55: “If no one can agree upon what was said was anything said at all?” Nietzsche: *ceases to exist*

[@hugofontes5708]

I knew that joke with religion

[@kueapel911]

that's gotta be a really weird way to end the video.

[@kilgoretrout4408]

It's a thinly disguised hit-piece: Start with the attention-grabby title and stumble over the finish line with that vomit inducing line. Any "balance" here is just for show.

[@kurtrosenthal6313]

@@kilgoretrout4408 that much was obvious.

[@kueapel911]

@@kilgoretrout4408 I mean, it's kind of interesting to say the least. Most if not every single piece that's even remotely critical of JBP are presenting him as a demonic figure, the red skull of hydra if I may, but this video doesn't seem to be afraid of expressing JBP's motives as good and that's rare for a critique of JBP. But that ending tho... it's as if any criticality are thrown off the window, though I'd say most of the attempt on doing it wasn't really carefully constructed at all from the beginning. Far easier to spot an error in the critique than the thing they criticize. Also, there's a hint of narcissism in this video throughout the ending. The man being criticized is an old wise professor who've spent his entire lifetime formulating and articulating his thought, and he's by no means lacking in his reasoning capability. But this video attempted, or at the very least unconsciously seems to be trivializing this old man's fruit of thoughts in favor of this video's creator own thought which doesn't seem to have the same level of capability JBP have. It really puts me off from the entire channel when I detect such kind of narcissism in a video that talks about anything in philosophical significance. Philosophical topics really need to be detached from such juvenile narcissism. I belief that's the reason why the most credible people in this kind of field are all old and wise. They are very capable on being careful with their words to present themselves in the least narcissistic way. But then there's also a narcissistic element in intellect, so yea... it's not easy to practice at all, and as a good example perhaps, JBP himself.

[@zakk6675]

There is no undertone of sarcasm when I say this comment section is one of the most tame and constructive ones I’ve seen on all of youtube. Def subbing

[@Andreatellsstories65c]

Generally people that watch this channel don't end up here because of the political bias in what they consume, regardless of where they lie, so it TENDS to stay pretty tame.

[@alqaadi9858]

@@SomeBody-pb7ht for now; who knows how long it will last? I hope KZbin algorithm don't start recommending it to the wrong people.

[@themartialartsapproach8786]

@@SomeBody-pb7ht add "presuppositions" to the list of Peterson's favorite words. I forgot about that one until you echoed it.

[@Aadhitiya_Murali]

@@SomeBody-pb7ht oh, im willing to hear your constructive criticisms of chomsky and his work, and why we should not take him seriously, so what are they?

[@t0k4m4k7]

i think it's because this dude talks in such a chill tone

[@Balance275]

I'm one of those who Peterson's books and lectures saved from a really dark time. But I honestly think the over exposure and international fame is slowly driving him mad. He's not as calmed and articulate as he once was. He seems more and more dogmatic and hateful. I can't judge him, given all the things he's gone through recently, but it really hurts me seeing him decay like this. Funnily enough, he follows his own rules less and less, and it shows.

[@thenout]

Feel the same... Most notably him joining Daily Wire doesn't help his cause to transcend his message to a broad and open public. He's getting deeper into politics, which he used to state he's not interested in.

[@beeflumps]

I feel like once you become influential in the wide world, you also become more vulnerable.

[@doxenking3899]

I can't underestimate how much I agree with this. He just seems like a different person now. I really hope he returns to his calm mild mannered and well reasoned self, because his new vitriolic mentality isn't as helpful to society as he might think it is. I think he's got people behind the scenes feeding him the kool-aid, because on a recent podcast with lex friedman and just himself he acted just as he used to, calm and well reasoned.

[@traveel9409]

Terminal hate does that to you… and politics is where you’ll find the worst of people

[@traveel9409]

@@doxenking3899 ya his daughter is kinda sus but idk

[@hieronymusgandt9235]

Picturing Peterson and Žižek as Kermit and Oscar the Grouch is something more

[@TheMusicLauncher]

Honestly, Peterson is more a motivational speaker than a philosoph like zizek

[@user-kt1st4uu9x]

@@TheMusicLauncher really depends what lectures of peterson you listen to. I can see why you think that, because the self help videos are more popular, but he is a philosopher

[@za1231in]

@@user-kt1st4uu9x a bad one

[@unlimited8410]

@@TheMusicLauncher What went into your mind to makes such a name?

[@dalfokane]

@@unlimited8410 What's so bad about Edelmann?

[@n00bie96]

My Top 3 Jordan Peterson Trademarked Phrases: 1. _Roughly speaking_ 2. _Manifest itself_ 3. _Lobster_ Honorable mentions: 1. _Hierarchies_

[@NothingHumanisAlientoMe]

Well that is a load of low resolution garbage there kiddo 1. Bucko 2.Bucko 3.Bucko

[@dwnetwrok]

4. Throwing the baby out with the bath water

[@NothingHumanisAlientoMe]

@@dwnetwrok Sounds like something somebody who never read Dostoyevsky would do

[@haris147break]

"...let's say"

[@wonderlust3550]

Proclivity

[@thatscrub8351]

Just remember guys, you don’t have to literally be the same person as someone else to listen to them. Disagreement and differences make us who we are. Don’t put yourself in a echo camber.

[@stevewhittle7163]

Yes but why listen to fraudsters?

[@rubylicious1024]

​@@stevewhittle7163how else would you know or find out that they might be fraudsters?

[@rubylicious1024]

​@@stevewhittle7163how else would you know or find out if they would be fraudsters?

[@morganpauls1873]

@@stevewhittle7163 to tell the difference between them and the genuine fact because if yo just assume a is the fact and b is the lie then you fall for the lies whose form is that of a and who b even as a lier could have exposed

[@Dipper-gx9lv]

I like how every thought by Peterson is followed by “this had some criticism”

[@raba9688]

Technically criticism has followed every idea ever put forth. It's just that in a historical sense the criticisms of prevailing ideas tend to die out due to them not being as copied and widespread as the successful ideas. And vice-versa with unsuccessful ideas, criticisms tend do abound

[@forgetfulfunctor1]

13:40 This should calm you 😙

[@SirNyanPanda]

That's what happens when you talk more than you know

[@ebrahimosman9676]

Yeah, me too. Even though I'm a fan of Peterson.

[@ignaspan]

@@forgetfulfunctor1 the examples used as his controversial views (tweets) simply raised the questions, they did not state anything.

[@puppable]

if no one can agree on what he's saying, does that make jordan peterson a modern art piece? Maybe the real philosophy was the arguments we had along the way.

[@vee1267]

Lmao

[@mrvoltem9379]

Uh, this is uh, shit, you're on to something

[@bysonharrison1395]

It's more like what he says is true on multiple levels of analysis and that's why you can ask two jp fans about one quote of his and get two different responses that are both true (if both interpretations are correct)

[@Canna_Berlin_420]

People agree, but the idealoges obviously have a hard time

[@buckplug2423]

This has a bit to do with his mixing of science and mythology. People tend to treat JP like a philosopher, dissecting him with logic and analysis - but he's not a philosopher in the same sense as Camus or Nietzsche. He's just a man, and his motives aren't purely intellectual - they're spiritual too, maybe even emotional, beyond the mind itself. He's a part of a dying breed of intellectuals, people ready to accept that some things don't need to be understood completely, that sometimes our soul does the thinking for us.

[@DeathByFoodTruck]

“If you can’t agree on what someone has said, then did they really say anything at all?” Jreg cackles in Canadian

[@baresize]

It’s weird implying a statement/series of statements that demand multi interpretations to be of less value than a clear-cut, spoon-fed one.

[@edwardzita3479]

@@baresize Yes

[@deveneb8409]

I like the way it doesn’t force a specific thought onto you but let’s you take facts and determine a conclusion yourself. Kind of like coloring book.

[@dwnetwrok]

@@baresize 100% - poor way to end the video

[@FICKOIFY]

@@dwnetwrok I agree entirely. Individuals can start conversations that people do not need to agree with, however people at the very least can try to understand the point of view. Everyone's view is different and trying to make a blanket statement like "If we do not agree then what we said is invalid" is highly irresponsible and does not allow for differing people to have conversation freely without and objective outcome. It's just absurd.

[@Midkup]

It's so easy to eat up people's words, especially when the speaker is well spoken and well educated. This is a great video providing a critical perspective on a super relevant and outspoken figure, thank you Mr Sisyphus!

[@duckqueak]

I really think that is most of Jordan Peterson's appeal honestly. Hes well spoken and well educated he sounds smart and confident so people believe him right or wrong.

[@ArguablyTheWorst]

He almost immediately lies about the Canadian tribunal so as much as it seems like he's being fair it's obvious there's a political stance here. Sad, honestly hard to find anybody who can be truthful nowadays

[@tuffwith2effs899]

This is a really uncharitable take but I'm gonna say it with that disclaimer. He has an extremely high verbal IQ but is pretty average on other metrics of intelligence. So basically he's very skilled at saying not so smart things in a way that sounds elevated and sophisticated. The only people who don't see through the glitz to the, at best, mediocre thought he puts out there are people who already believe the things he does and are happy to hear someone "reputable" saying it. His opinions pretty much anywhere that isn't the kind of self help you could get from grandma if you'd just listen, are terrible. The way he can flat out weep for dissafected young white cis-het men who'll hop in a van and run over pedestrians while fighting so hard against groups that are actually marginalized more than the average priviliged person he grew up as shows a level of tribalism that is rather appalling.

[@br.m]

@@duckqueak Is that like the way I can get any woman I want I just have to act confident

[@Tony-tq4tx]

I'm curious of what would be considered smart in your opinion.🤔

[@hayteren]

“His weakness is going beyond the mark of his area of his expertise” So basically the same as every public intellectual...

[@shaunstyles1571]

he said it's his strength and weakness, at least quote it properly

[@hayteren]

@@shaunstyles1571 No

[@shaunstyles1571]

@@hayteren each to their own I guess

[@Canna_Berlin_420]

Psychology is fundamental so his* expertise reaches further than most, which many cant relate to

[@onyxtay7246]

@@Canna_Berlin_420 Okay, but physics is fundamental to everything in the universe, so a physicist is the best person to tell you how to organize a society. Actually, go a step further, because physics is based on mathematics. This means a mathematician, who understands the fundamentals of everything, is best person to ask about social issues. Except, that's not how expertise works. It's a specialization. Peterson doesn't have expertise in all the areas he talks about, so he doesn't qualify as an expert and his positions shouldn't be viewed as if he is one.

[@nomadautodidact]

I had the exact same thing happen to me at the same time. My wife got cancer and I started taking anxiety meds and it destroyed my life, had multiple seizures, and lost my mind while she was going through chemo. I couldn't imagine having done it in the public eye.

[@samet7422]

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you and your wife are healthy and happy now.

[@nomadautodidact]

@@samet7422 We actually are. She was inspired by the breast cancer ward to get into cosmetic tattooing and she is absolutely killing it now. She is well on her way to making 6 figures this year and I couldn't be more proud of her!

[@samet7422]

@@nomadautodidact Wow i'm glad that i heard that.

[@mrbencker1074]

@@nomadautodidact thank god, take care you two and i hope that this channel could help you to get through things.

[@ElderAleks]

@@nomadautodidact holy shit that's fucking epic dude, I wish y'all the greatest this life has to offer.

[@spiciestsenpai]

Nobody: Sisyphus: *Shrek is an ancient symbol*

[@chasny4588]

I hope this comment format burns in hell

[@Orgotheonemancult]

I like how this massively upvoted comment implicitly suggests that it is ridiculous to believe emanations which are present in modern culture should be seen as significant and meaningful. Peterson never talks about Shrek, but he does talk about Pinnochio, Harry Potter, Star Wars, etc. Stories which are resonant and incredibly popular. The fact that this comment is getting upvoted so much just goes to show that Peterson critics want everything that exists in the modern world to be viewed as pointless, almost as a matter of comforting oneself. These are the same people who would rather nihilism simply never be addressed as a potential threat to civilized culture. Wonder why...

[@user-yg9rl4sq1x]

​@@Orgotheonemancult If you extrapolate any more of your viewpoint on people upvoting a Shrek meme into your 'implicit' suggestion you might just bridge the gap between objectivism and relativism. Shrek is love. Shrek is life.

[@Orgotheonemancult]

@@user-yg9rl4sq1x I like sophomoric philosophical abstractions too!

[@user-yg9rl4sq1x]

@@Orgotheonemancult I could use a fancier dichotomy if it makes you feel better?

[@officerpolarbear8670]

There are many great things I can say about this video, like how it subtly acknowledges that no single psychological strategy can apply for everyone: what works for Peterson's personal life might not work for Zizik's personal life. But what I really enjoyed was your use of soft music, warm colors, gentle but active graphics, and simple humor. Whenever I dive into the world of Conservatism vs Liberalism, I often end up with a literal headache due to the stress I get trying to decide whether I'm right or the person in the video is right. This was so soothing, and now I want to see more calming political videos.

[@douglassmithe9799]

This is such a good video on him. Most people seem to either worship or despise him. But this is a much more nuanced take, looking at both his positives and negatives. Well done mate

[@billyumbraskey8135]

its called fence sitting grift and its nothing new. its a strategy of mass appeal, a non-committal "muh both sides" exercise in equivocation

[@douglassmithe9799]

​@@billyumbraskey8135 I know what you're saying, sometimes people just take both sides of an argument or the 'central' position simply for the sake of appealing to as many people as possible. But I don't think that's what this is, I genuinely think there are good and bad things to say about Peterson, and Sisyphus touches on both here.

[@yoursleepparalysisdemon1828]

I take a central opinion on most things, sometimes leaning on one way or another, but then i despise this man.

[@billyumbraskey8135]

@@yoursleepparalysisdemon1828 you are probably a communist or some other flavor of judeo-subversive, then.

[@billyumbraskey8135]

@Sky Gardener the millions of personal testimonials about how much he has helped them isnt "evidence" for you? the soyface meme applies.

[@tobene]

I grew to be very critical towards his views on sociology, politics, gender roles and religion. On the other hand I can't deny that his "self improvement" and self reflection stuff helped me as a teenager.

[@brandonsaffell4100]

That's the real rub with lobster daddy. His general advice, in 12 rules, if you just read the rules, is not too bad. It's when you get into his actual beliefs, the words and paragraphs he uses to justify those beliefs that things get to be really bad. A bit of a mental trojan horse there I suppose.

[@cornonthekobi]

@@brandonsaffell4100 "mental trojan horse" is a phrase I'll be using a lot more now

[@Thisisausername556]

@@brandonsaffell4100 His actual beliefs and justifications seem entirely reasonable. He is long winded and gets sidetracked a bit, but he has years or decades of experience in everything he mentions in his books. All of his points and his rules are taken from his book Maps of Meaning, which took him ~20 years to write. It’s even things he’s talked about in his lectures and those are on channel (2017) and I’m most of the way through those. His lectures aren’t political, so if you’re not into his politics but want to hear about things he’s more than competent in, I’d give those a look if it at all interests you.

[@raskolnikovsghost2701]

@@Thisisausername556 yeah these guys are full of nonsense. His beliefs and motives are entirely reasonable. He would be milk-toast mainstream in the world of politics, right up until second term Obama era. When everything changed and the left shifted to Antifa/BLM identity politics. JBP has been the same moderate he was 30 years ago. He’s grown, but he’s totally anti-authoritarian and the lies attempting to paint him as a fascist only highlight the liars’ biases.

[@ipadair7345]

@@raskolnikovsghost2701 You seem a bit confused mate. What's up? Huge Generalisations of entire ideologies, peoples, etc. are plain bad, it's like what you say some are calling you facist, as they're doing the same thing you're doing, Generalizing everyone into the worst person of what they think. Please don't stereotype :')

[@2510LuL]

As a young adult, petersons work made me a person who instead of being nihilistic and unambitious now chooses to face the suffering of life head on by creating my own meaning in an existentially meaningless world. I grew a lot as a person due to him. Striving to live up to your potential, focusing on yourself to set an example instead of criticising those who aren't one are some of the few messages that my generation is in dire need of. Our world today is so chaotic and disorienting and his insistance that our quest of being better people individually is the way healthier and more grounded way to live. The collective only grows from the individuals making up the collective growing and this is done by striving upward and forward in spite of life's challanges while encouraging others to do the same. The criticism he has garnered is definitely merited as his politics and philosophy isn't completely thought through but his value is immeasurable to people in my generation who are drowned by the chaos, confusion and meaninglessness that is now hardwired into our brains due to todays wierd world shrouded by social media, unrest and stagnation.

[@mateosegura1520]

Petersons works are quite meaningful and I believe he would be almost unanimously revered if he had stayed in his own lane and followed his own rules ironically. There's much to be learned in self improvement from him and I wish that those critical of him (myself included) were able to distinguish the quality content from the delusional ramblings.

[@belakoriath3659]

You should read some Camus. I found it very interesting...

[@nathanobando5060]

Beautifully said

[@KidAteMe1LetsBuildsAndMore]

I've had quite the opposite experience. I wasn't a nihilistic individual, but as I was confronted with the dragon of Peterson's nihilism and eventually desired to reconstruct meaning from its ashes as to follow Peterson's words, I was only left with this harrowing, single-minded pursuit of self-actualization. I found myself in this deep hole of depression, constantly striving to improve myself and get farther into this 'dominance hierarchy'. I read up lots on exercising, studying better, and considered watching his entire lectures on religion as a way to find meaning. I couldn't. For some reason his stories and the way he explains how the world functions couldn't bring meaning to me because there's some dissonance with his beliefs and teachings, and how I personally understood reality. I realized then that Peterson probably isn't my answer, he was harrowingly toxic to my mind. So instead of turning over to this highly-individualized search of meaning, I instead looked for what our current generation valued as moral principles and was lacking in as people. Are we really so chaotic and without meaning as Peterson tried to claim? Because all around me I saw people striving towards meaning. Disagree or not with its beliefs, the current trend of leftism although sometimes (mostly prevalent on the internet) toxic and over-protective, I saw as people trying to establish moral principles and a new guide to meaning in this age of 'disorder of morality'. This fueled me to examine their beliefs and understand why, and understood then that their meaning might just be what saves the world. The way they go about it is somewhat improper, but I think that's a meaning good enough. Peterson taught me a few things, but he wasn't my guide to meaning. And I think people should realize this, Peterson isn't going to be everyone's guide to meaning. His maps of meaning is not as all encompassing as it presents itself, it's just one of many.

[@GallowayJesse]

Commies will now lambast you for choosing to take responsibility for your life

[@michaeljamespitt8728]

His advice to take responsibility wholly for all I do helped me a lot. Definitely don’t agree with or particularly like everything he says but his impact on me was undeniably positive so for that I’m thankful for him.

[@prouddegenerates9056]

You should never agree with everything anyone might say. I believe people demand Peterson be something more then a man, but he remains human regardless of our favor or hate.

[@brandonpacheco9713]

@@prouddegenerates9056 to be fair he has done a lot of harm to himself by the way he approaches things and has became a lot more radical and emotional than he use to be.

[@skyisreallyhigh3333]

So your parents telling you to take responsibility wasn't helpful? You needed that advice from some random dude on the internet?

[@ddhqj2023]

@@prouddegenerates9056 I don't think people demand that JP be something more than a man......I think we'd like to see him be less angry, rude and divisive. He does nothing towards promoting society that cooperates and works together to find commonality in the face of world changes and issues.

[@prouddegenerates9056]

@@ddhqj2023 Are we talking about the same person? He’s about the most docile your gonna get without crippling anxiety. Most of his views aren’t even particularly device, topics are fairly benign first world issues. If anything he tells people to be less upset with the world and more put together themselves. This man literally keeps men form killing themselves, by being a boring father figure. He reaches men because he is clean, mostly polite, and willing to see potential in them without being all isolationist with society or the opposite sex. If anything, he’s a lame dad, which is kinda special when most of us never got one. Man isn’t my hero by any measure, but to throw such negativity towards him, is honestly shocking. People need to chill, some folk clapped like seals when his wife got cancer, yet he is either composed or breaking down.

[@ameen9532]

i'm a 23 years old teacher living in africa, peterson lectures and book helped me take my responsibility and try to fix the things that i can fix .. for the last two years i have been learning how to code and i m trying to build a platform that allow people to support African children to continue their education. while teaching the kids in my local school.. I m just aiming to the highest star that I can see as he said

[@og992]

That's awesome. Wish you the best bud!

[@allankuria9923]

@Nii Tettey Addy-Morton And I'm another one. Peace and love from Nairobi, Kenya

[@Talkboxeffectistrash]

To quote another commenter "Generally once he breaches into the political realm he sorta stops being fully coherent, but his psychology stuff is really good for the most part"

[@MrOzzification]

While it seems intend no foul from your post I genuinely do hate when people refer to Africa as if its one country. Especially from people who are actually on the continent. Africa is a large continent with many countries and even more cultural and ethnic groups. We all could have an opportunity to learn about the cultural heritage of the children you are helping

[@OnceAJay]

I'm a Brazilian guy Computer Scientist at Harvard and that's all thanks to Jordan, I'd be literally dead id not for him, suicide is hard on people, lack of meaning is really something hard to cope with

[@InfinitiSin]

ah yes, my daily dose of lobster psychology.

[@mvnkycheez]

Man i actually tried to read 12 Rules for Life, after watching a ton of his lectures online. Man it's awful.

[@Finimabob]

my comment of the year for sure

[@a.bagasm.7253]

@@WrathofFenrir99 yeah i want to know too

[@jalchi8367]

@@mvnkycheez I think it is a great guide for Teens, searching for a place in the world

[@cliveadams7629]

@@jalchi8367 It's a great book for parents to give to their untidy teens but I suspect unforseen consequences might weigh against any potential benefits from tidy rooms.

[@funkyboy_22]

The King of Kings: Jesus Christ The “King”: Elvis Presley The Lizard King: Jim Morrison Jordan Peterson: 🦞

[@adriantomo5688]

king of cool = dean martin king of Ooo = fraud

[@AIMLESS-NAMELESS]

Don’t forget about cyrus the great

[@haris147break]

The King of God's = Zeus

[@samdis1890]

I feel really old for not understanding this lol

[@M.A.T.S.K.O]

King Mob: Andrew Jackson The Kingfish: Huey Long

[@joemck74]

"If no-one can agree on what someone has said, have they really said anything at all?" Beautiful. If you came up with that yourself, I hope History gives you the credit you deserve.

[@bladdnun3016]

Basically Wittgenstein.

[@FootEnjoyer]

When Peterson claims "clean your room" I think hes actually appealing to those who dont feel as if they have an identity or place in society. I dont think you can point to someone like MLK and say his argument is bunk. Even if MLK's house was dirty he still had his large goals and self purpose and structures built around him, he already knew his path. Peterson is saying an easy first step to being able to have a structure, being able to see your path, is to "CLEAN YOUR DAM ROOM, LIKE, C'MON MAN"

[@shakshukioflibya6633]

you see that's the problem, you say that but another person would say differently, they would defend the literal meaning, others would go even more abstract, the problem with JP is that he never explains his positions thoroughly or in a clear fashion unlike popular philosophers of the past, if you would call him that, and even then most of his ideas are already present in books way before his and they're explained in a much better fashion, and actually have value beyond circuting somebodies brain to make it seem as if he holds anything of profound value.

[@traceyclaver6076]

I totally agree with this, Dawson. I thought the same.

[@littlehendrix3]

I don't see how or why anyone would hear Peterson suggest people clean their own rooms before seeking to change the world as "every problem in one's life must be solved before seeking to change the world". Cleaning one's room is a metaphor, but when he says have your room in perfect order he is speaking of the literal room. It is impossible to have one's life in perfect order, that would be Heaven on earth. Why would someone who speaks so much of suffering, chaos, imperfection as the common denominator of existence expect anyone to arrange their life in perfect order? That wouldn't make any sense. To me his message is clear. Strive to be the best version of yourself, and if we all did this, or as many as possible, we could change the world for the better in ways different than millions of people who can't or won't even keep their own room in order attaching themselves to an ideology to enact change from the top down. This rarely ends well. I interpret this message as an obvious truth: true change, good change, comes from within and outward, from the bottom up, not the top down. This is true in many areas of life. Individual, family, community, state, nation etc. For example why are so many people obsessed with presidential politics but unconcerned with local politics. Hardly anyone in the U.S. votes in local elections compared to presidential election turnout. Some claim the reason is the date. But of this I am skeptical. Local elections should be valued as important as presidential elections. But so few vote local because it is not on the first Tuesday of November? That is pathetic. Everyone wants to badly to change the world. We are so fixated on the grand scheme that we cannot see the forest for the trees and ironically are oblivious to how we can truly change the world.

[@illitaret8780]

@@shakshukioflibya6633 Well any phrase can be interrupted in a multitude of ways, but not all of them are correct. I am fairly well versed in JP, and I think when he says “clean your room” he is referring to putting in order what you can and then building up from there, creating exponentially more order and less chaos as you go through life.

[@megax5000]

what does peterson mean when he says 'get your house in PERFECT order before you DARE attempt to change the world'? what does a perfect house look like? or is that a figure of speech?

[@AW-wg5zp]

I really appreciate your analysis on Peterson and the potential motives and consequences of his work. Regardless of politics infused in the fans and critics, I’m still glad his lectures introduced me into philosophy, psychology, and even Jung. Also thank you for the fundraiser on men’s health. You’ve def earned a sub!

[@worsethanjoerogan8061]

Most of the hate that he gets is due to his opinion on the transgender thing. If you dive into his online content most of it has nothing to do with politics and is extremely useful even if you disagree with him about the LGBT stuff

[@solame10101]

@@worsethanjoerogan8061 Wait, what LGBT stuff? I thought it was just about free speech

[@blastanoizz2]

@@solame10101 well yeah, but then bloggers called him transphobic because "compelled speech" is apparently not a thing if it's about minorities. And their followers couldn't be arsed to verify it themselves, because "why would I listen to a transphobe, yikes" Check out any comment section on facebook/reddit/whatever when it's about Peterson. They never cite JP himself on the thing, it's always Bustle or Vice or something.

[@farnazbarari8940]

@@solame10101purposefuly or not, he misrepresented article c-16 as some kind of infringement on freedom of speech, compelled speech, as he calls it, eventhough that law was already in place in his state for quite some time and was living under it for many years. What the bill effectively did was that corporations could not fire you simply because you're trans. Call me a snowflake, but I don't think anybody should be fired or discriminated against on the basis of their race, gender identity, or sexuality. Furthurmore, his fearmongering, and misrepresantation of the bill was a gust of wind that made the embers of transphobia burn even brighter.

[@blastanoizz2]

@@farnazbarari8940 wasn't his issue with C-16 the section we're it was punishable by law to deadname/misgender someone? (As opposed to rather the entire bill in itself?) I think I saw it in the hearing on youtube somewhere but it was a while ago. If I recall correctly, the issue was not whether or not it should be okay to do so, but rather that making a specific law about it would be too selective/open to abuse(for lack of a better word, excuse my English), right?

[@parkourbee2]

JBP has an engaging and inspiring refutation to nihilism (or antidote to chaos, if you will), which 18-year-old me badly needed at the time. I remain deeply moved by his pragmatic ideas on how to conduct oneself meaningfully, though I remain critical of his refusal to critique the right in any real form as he constantly critiques the left.

[@DiogenesNephew]

That's definitely fair. Though I aim apolitical, it always seems so crystal clear that movements on the left threaten immediate danger for society as a whole. The gripes I have about the right are true for government in general mostly. That's why I personally never had an issue with what you're saying.

[@luizcastro5246]

bro the left have brought up toxic ideas such as ''toxic masculinity'' and ''victim hierarchy'', these are problems he as a psychiatrist is more equipped to handle since they are more in the realm of philosophical ideas. The problems with the right aren't nearly as easy to comment on since they are less psychological in nature, at least from the point of view of a psychiatrist.

[@jaymiddleton1782]

@@luizcastro5246 psychologists handle philosophy now, do they? Edit; why do you think the concept of toxic masculinity is in itself toxic?

[@luizcastro5246]

@@jaymiddleton1782 toxic masculinity is a form of making a man feel lesser than for being who he is. If he is excited about a topic and he starts mentioning to a feminist she can just go '' you're mansplaining'' and call him a toxic male. The problem is when men start believing that they are truly lesser than, I can think of nothing less cruel to teach someone.

[@Cyliandre441]

@@luizcastro5246 Toxic masculinity actually does not refer to the mere concept of masculinity. Although the term makes it sound that way. I once heard it reffered to as "limiting masculinity" which is a far better description of what is actually meant. And what is meant are types of behavior that are damaging. Like suppressing emotions, treating women as lesser, being uncomfortable with showing affection to women and men etc. For some reasons these flaws became related with maskulinity, and the term toxic masculinity is an attempt to identify these and create a less limiting definition of masculinity. Unfortunately the term is misused quite a bit, and if one is not familiar with this concept it sounds pretty bad. If it's used correctly however it is not meant to make someone feel bad. It is also important to say that these "toxic" behaviors are learned, and have not much to do with someones true personality.

[@T61APL89]

Mom tells me to clean room and take personal responsibility "I Dont wanna!" Some Canadian conservative says the same thing but with lobsters and funny clothes "What a freaking genius!"

[@Liam-cj5kh]

Peterson doesn’t argue that social hierarchies are good, rather that they are inevitable. Edit: I wanna say that I really liked your take on this, and you were overall very neutral. Good job!

[@bgraves7925]

Yes

[@Ivkovifi]

pshhh... people don't want to hear straight facts

[@Tankcat69]

Yeah he misrepresented a lot of JPs stuff. It was a well written script but it seems he did little actual research into JP before writing it. Kinda disappointing because this kind of misquoting and misrepresenting imprints itself on the audience. He starts off listing facts about JPs history which misleads the audience into thinking the whole video is factual and then he starts HEAVILY misrepresenting JPs writings.

[@abcd18802]

And unfortunately many of Peterson's fans like to spew that idea there is some superiority between different groups of people

[@mossmoss2019]

ok that's a valid claim but then, if they are so inevitable (idea that's been disproven), why is he even properly concerned with the framework which he says postmodernists propose, that of demolishing all hierarchies? Wouldn’t that be futile?

[@anibalmattiwos7613]

"Peterson cares about his clients and he genuinely believes in what he's saying." That is the reason why i can't hate Peterson, he's just another guy trying to make sense of the world, while doing his best to help people along the way. His intentions are genuine, and every once in awhile he shares some really insightful stuff. Also he introduced me to dostoyevsky. ❤ All and all a good person. Great video btw, this was probably the best Peterson video i've seen, very neutral and measured with fair critiques. 👍

[@shaebindley5043]

but he doesn't help people, helps those people he likes and actively tries to hurt groups that he things badly of. He's actively damaged my relationship with my father. I just dont understand why he cant simply say his advise/thoughts without demonising transgender issues for example. Like being concerned about protecting free speech is an admirable path but why does he have to moralise being transgender itself? I do not want anyone to get in any kind of trouble for calling me my biological sex rude as I think it is when do maliciously. But then why am I still a bad person in Petersons eyes? I am just a humble person trying to craft the best life for myself like everyone else in this world.

[@indonesiamanis6023]

@@shaebindley5043 wow, i dont know someone's thought can ruin your life. that must be a problem

[@xerxer9251]

@@shaebindley5043 demonising transgender issues? moralise being transgender? What makes you think you are a bad person in petersons eyes? If you are just talking about bill 16 you know the issue is that you just cant force people to talk certain way but that doesnt mean he think you are bad person for being transgender.

[@xerxer9251]

@Philosophy you could at least have form an argument to back your position instead of just saying "its bad", but not like i really care

[@xerxer9251]

@Philosophy just calling adjetives witouth backing it up, you sound like the only nutjob here.

[@Dutch-d5x]

"If nobody can agree on what was said. Did you say anything at all?" I'd argue yes... I don't think that there is a single deep thinker whom everyone can agree on what they meant

[@marksamuel4205]

My question would be, can we infer disagreement? Then we can more easily go about our day weeding out the controversial topics without needing to hear the disagreement from both sides.

[@AbandonedVoid]

I mean, I'm not really sure about that. Even with Nietzsche, who is often misinterpreted by those who know him only in passing or approach him from the distortions of his sister, and is infamous for being misunderstood and hotly debated, we still know the major points he was getting at. Most philosophers describe their ideas in multiple ways and go to great lengths to illustrate them in a variety of thought experiments and allegories, which makes the communication pretty clear. The debate is normally more about how we should apply their insight, and whether they were actually right about everything, etc. At least, in more academic circles. There are a lot of people that have absolutely terrible reading comprehension with garbage takes on major works of philosophy, but these are mostly armchair "intellectuals." I don't think misunderstanding deep thinkers is really that big of a issue. Except maybe with Hegel, but that's mostly a meme.

[@elhilo1972]

Existentialists adore Nietzsche, but many disagree on what his actual philosophy was.

[@dudestolemyname69]

@@AbandonedVoid the fact you tied "were they right about everything?" and "academic circles" is pretty telling. there are plenty of armchairs in universities. in my view, one of the greatest failures of humanity is looking for someone to be absolutely right about everything they ever said. we demand perfection and produce none of it. to the ops point: he's right, only thing that isn't up for debate is "I think therefore I am" everything else can be thrown out the window with solipsism

[@markbasilejr9808]

nobody understanding or agreeing on what was said is not the same as not everyone understanding and agreeing. if literally no one agrees on what was said, not the truth value of what was said, but what was actually said....then nothing was communicated....i.e. nothing was said.

[@Linda-jl5lx]

Jordan Peterson has many good points. I try to live by some of his advice. I don't eat up everything he says tho. Just the stuff I feel applies to me. Like challenging your fears and keeping it tidy around you.

[@alexandrelaflamme7332]

The main thing i care about is that ever since I've started seriously listening to Peterson and following his "generic" advice, my life seriously improved tenfold. So that makes his advice true enough for me, because it's worked. And I know for a fact that if i believed less in self responsibility for my own life and more in the unavoidable impact of my society on me, I'd be having a way less good time of it.

[@konan8353]

I can actually remember back to a moment at the start of uni where I had in my head the 'dragons gold' story he used in one of his lectures to represent the idea that what you need the most lies in the most dangerous and uncomfortable places, and it fucking works. It was a terrifying experience, but so much good came from it

[@gur262]

True enough as a term used by him can get lost. There's no true enough

[@thumbsup3096]

Good for you mate. Same for me. If his advice was so "generic" there wouldnt be thousands of people all over the globe who had a similar experience.

[@popopop984]

Yah it is generic advice because it works in some ways. It's just a stupid way of running a society unless you're trying to run into the ground.

[@BobTheTrueCactus]

@@popopop984 He basically says that each individual should take the greatest responsibility they can shoulder. That's not necessarily the worst for a society.

[@farnhoune4237]

He might not be the wisest philosopher, but he sure is a bloody well motivational speaker and psychiatrist, who helped a lot of people to get their shit together.

[@opanainmyveins]

no

[@thescreentroll8632]

@@opanainmyveins yes

[@moot2046]

Even Evangelist cult can help people to get their shit together, since only the survivor can tell the story. Good luck on Survivorship bias.

[@farnhoune4237]

@@moot2046 I understand now

[@ninaj6051]

It depends on your place in the world and personality whether he motivates you. I think that he either "motivates" by enhancing the egos of certain groups while saying "fu" to others without remorse and constantly battling them with his rhetoric and charisma. Yes, I think he's exceptional rhetoric and has charisma. It doesn't mean I like him, just that I can explain how he got himself a sweet spot where he can keep on being a guru, like a Jesus of the modern (mostly white male, and young) world.

[@DRATER469]

Jordans work helped me a lot early on. When i see how he acts now it makes me pretty sad. Maybe i didnt see his flaws when younger, or maybe his illness has taken a greater toll on him than he realises.

[@TheHalfGlassFullGuy]

I think being put in such a spotlight has unconciously pushed him in his current direction. It happens to almost anyone who feels that people constantly expect more from them.

[@JR-mr1tw]

Politics lets you react and create quickly and constantly, but it's the intellectual version of McDonalds. His original work was decades in the making and had the time to be perfected.

[@TheHalfGlassFullGuy]

@@JR-mr1tw That's true, you can see it in his train of thought, reactionary stuff isn't really his thing, he's kind of been pushed into it.

[@DRATER469]

@@JR-mr1tw I think he had the discipline not to get sucked in, in the past. Now he slips into terrible takes like the majority of the twitter users. Also some of the intellectual nobodies he gets on his podcast are embarrassing. He has to guide them so much with interesting conservative ideas but they ignore him and vomit far right talking points. But he keeps doing it while surely knowing how stupid the conversations are, because they serve this weird agenda he seems to adhere to. Its pretty interesting to listen to, as he constantly tries to set up his guests with potentially good takes and they rarely get the memo.

[@Magnulus76]

People turned him into a guru, something he simply doesn't deserve. Ditto for Alan Watts.

[@johns3106]

I often find it interesting that so many intellectuals throughout history, who come up with “the answers” to socio-economic problems, are often deeply flawed, unhappy, unstable people themselves. They seem to be looking for the “one way” to make the world make sense to their own view of the world. Content, well-adjusted people (no matter where they are on the socio-economic ladder) rarely look for the proper “route” the world should follow…they are too busy just getting on with life to worry about it too much!

[@useyourbrain1232]

Very good observation

[@sargentbaco9182]

He’s a studied man with interesting things to say that can spur people to improve themselves. I appreciate his genuineness and how he has inspired me to improve myself.

[@thegrandcanyon9861]

Noooooo! You can’t like a conservative! You’re supporting muh right-wing talking pointsarino!

[@danielkay5555]

Genuinely carious what is it that he said that was new or helpful ?

[@thegrandcanyon9861]

@@danielkay5555 most of it seems pretty stupid, like how nihilism is a communist plot, but I find his self-improvement stuff to be mostly positive. Take his advice with a bit of salt, though. He's pretty off himself, and while that does not make him a bad person or anything, it does mean he may not have everything figured out.

[@danielkay5555]

@@thegrandcanyon9861 Honestly what confuses me is that his self improvement advice or what I have seen of it, seem so mundane to me or like advice I have heard people say already. (sorry if that doesn't make sense english isn't my native lanuage)

[@harryg8721]

@@danielkay5555 maybe, but do people do it? I am very confident in saying that the people who dismiss Peterson as repeating ideas likely do not already follow those ideas and that most people in the West don’t. Furthermore, there are people who actively push against these ideas. Forgive me if I’m wrong but maybe you don’t realise how bad things really are. It is naive to think that most people actually believe that lying is always bad

[@timotg.6335]

Going down the Jordan Peterson rabbit hole was my first introduction to philosophy of any kind, and while I no longer believe that strongly in any of his ideas (especially after watching contra points video on him, which is pretty good), I would 100% credit him for inspiring my interest in philosophy in general, which eventually lead me to your channel, so it was nice to see my journey through the internet during lockdown come full circle. Thank you for making such a comprehensive, and well-researched video :)

[@samuelhart7678]

Me too 100%

[@PaladinJenkis]

Can you share some of the contra points (video urls)? I'd be really interested to hear those as well, especially since I like JP and his ideas not only make sense but are also loaded with scientific background. Thanks!

[@molseren]

Jordan Peterson made me read Foucault and Deleuze 😅

[@maycinnamon9561]

@@PaladinJenkis I think he's talking about the critical video essay made by the KZbinr ContraPoints. It's pretty easy to find by just searching "ContraPoints Jordan Peterson" in the KZbin search bar. Warning though: she has a very "colorful" esthetic and humour. It might take some time to get used to.

[@joaogarcia6170]

This video actually has some big problems interpreting Peterson by taking him too literally on the "clean your room" idea for example, it isn't "don't try to change to world at all" it's more akin to "get your life together as best as you can". Many people project their problems to the world while it isn't it's fault, although there are problems that can only be solved through public discourse or conflict (slavery for example), if he really believed that he wouldn't go publicly against compelled speech on Canada for example. Also Peterson does not commit a naturalistic fallacy, he doesn't give naturally occurring hierarchies any value on it's own, he already said that it can cause problems to society if it's too pronounced.

[@gibby3724]

7:44 as far as I am aware, Peterson argues not that hierarchies are good, but simply inevitable. This fallacy doesn’t apply

[@weebtrash6119]

Correct !!! And he also says they are unjust- but useful

[@gur262]

@@weebtrash6119 so wrong he says they are good then. Holy hell you squirrel around like he does

[@TheBlobik]

@@gur262 How is "unjust but useful" an equivalent of good in your book?

[@weebtrash6119]

@@gur262 I think you’re misplacing something here accidentally, because I’m saying “correct” to the fact that he doesn’t argue that they are necessarily good, but they are inevitable, agreeing with OP. And he also said that they are unjust but they are useful.

[@gur262]

@@TheBlobik it's close.

[@alphamorion4314]

I became extremely fascinated by some of Peterson's work, especially at how he truly seems to connect dots from many different fields in order to propose new interesting conclusions about the human condition. Listening to some of his lectures on those things, is actually what sparked my modern day interest in philosophy and Jungian psychology. Still, I'm kinda glad I stepped back before being pulled into the more political aspects of his phenomenon. You summarized extremely well there, at the end, we you talked about his willingness to go far out and behond his area of expertise. A remarkable trait in some circumstances, for sure, but a potentially very detrimental one in other circumstances.

[@BrandonCRFC]

I'm a true believe that interpreting data and responding to it effectively is just as valuable as the individual cultivating the data. I HATE when people tell me that because I didn't get a degree in XYZ, I have no right to comment on XYZ articles/reports/findings. I don't need a sociology degree to know when someone's a D**k. If your educated, respectful and reasonable...you're able to understand a lot in this world. And when most things in this world revolve around human behavior and behavioral trends...its not that difficult to see thru the smoke on anything.

[@outsideupside]

The political aspect of his phenomenon is unbearable. And I'm sure he would agree. Both sides intentionally misinterpret his claims and analysis to further an agenda most of us find abhorrent. Engaging with his actual ideas is totally worth it though.

[@brandonpacheco9713]

He careful with his philosophical points. There are many works that he quotes that he hasn’t necessarily interpreted right and may make you form clouded opinions. I think it would be better to look into the ideas he has rather than just accepting them as is. He sets a great foundation to build upon and form through your own journey and perspective.

[@theartoflee7827]

Ah a new philosophy video at 5 am. How convenient.

[@joostietoost4220]

The question is, why are you up at 5AM anyway?

[@euphoriapxx5130]

@@joostietoost4220 I like mornings better

[@euphoriapxx5130]

@Ryan Kegglly 5am mornings. I usually wake up around 1-4am

[@SadRahne]

Holy crap. 5am for me too...video just randomly showed up on YT. And I also wake up between 1-4 in the night/morning. Life is a series of catnaps anymore, no long blocks of sleep.

[@mike971000]

He does it on purpose

[@andresbarron3849]

Jordan “roughly speaking” Peterson

[@brownspice382]

Yknow

[@Pottalowski]

The ability to generalize is a hell of a thing

[@marktaylor526]

@cupric Well, that really depends on what you mean by "define", and how it relates to the metaphysical substrate of the vaginal chaos dragon matriarchy of the universe.

[@yourmumsfavouriteskier7535]

@@marktaylor526 wtf

[@djkrptdnb]

... so...

[@igornowicki29]

I'm a big time fan of Jordan Peterson (without an overestimation, his lectures improved my life) and I really enjoyed that video. I also think you provided a valid criticism of his thought in a very objective and non-personal way. Congrats, you've earned yourself a sub from me. Definitely going to check rest of your videos :)

[@TheSatch10]

This was a great video. I know the lobster analogy is one of the things they make fun of Peterson for, but when I read that chapter in the book, what I took from it was basically, don't let a "defeat" keep you down in life. The more you let things keep you down, the harder it will be for you to pick yourself up. I find this as great advice or at least something to keep in mind, regardless of the method used to convey the message.

[@ReaderViaNil]

The "analogy", which apparently nobody understands because for every one time peterson explains it, there are 50 cathy newmans mocking It, points to the fact (not theory, fact) that lobsters have a social hierachichal brain system that uses serotonin to regulate itself, the same chemichal human brains use. Biologically, the further away you go the less similares you are expected to find, unless its something basic for life. This is the actual point of the lobster thing; that thinking the effect of social status in people is all just invented by modern humans and could be changed just by changing society, is wrong. The problem is that most people would ser that "argument" and go like "roflmao Who would even think that Bro, you trippin, noone is thinking that Bro, chill fam". And then laugh at the lobster jokes.

[@alexmoliere570]

What I like about it was how both his critics and fans poked fun at him for it. This whole interaction could've easily been bitter, but everyone had a good time; the critics, the fans, even Peterson himself thought it was funny. I hope that sort of joy between everyone isn't forgotten, I know I won't forget.

[@e.thomas2475]

Pre-agrarian society’s weren’t egalitarian though. That is a myth that came out in the 60-70s and has been widely disproven. As an example tribal chieftains were buried with trinkets and honey while lower status members of the tribe weren’t even buried at all and were often instead left to rot. On top of that not one pre-agrarian society, like the uncontacted tribes in the Amazon, are egalitarian. They are quite hierarchal instead. It’s just disproven pseudoscience that socialists use as “proof” that human societies can be egalitarian.

[@justaway6901]

Logically, we are aware that a defeat should not keep us down in life. Its by instinct. The people looking for is the HOW. How can we rise after a defeat.

[@AudioAlure]

​@@e.thomas2475Do you think its justified to treat some people badly in some scenarios then?

[@pedrobanhodarosa5292]

After spending several minutes scrolling down through the seemingly endless comment section, I just feel content on how alive and interesting this has been. People really exposing their thoughts and stories, mostly for the better, as far as conflict can missplace someone into a position that they feel the need to complement their knowledge baggage just so they can move a little further

[@Swapnil638]

I don't even bother analyzing the assertions of his world view. I just like being told to get my act together and contend with life's suffering through moral responsibility. It's rare to hear that.

[@AwesometownUSA]

dang dude thast maddd deep ,yo did dose he for real actaully say that?? wow i need 2 learn more of this shit D8

[@steven5054]

On the KZbin recommendation list perhaps.

[@jakev8510]

yea man, after watching this i realized i don't really know many of peterson's views, i mostly listen to his lectures to motivate me to get out of bed and do something worth while.

[@ethandarcy5940]

Really? I feel like there is a constant chorus of you-can-do-it-if-you-get-right-with (Jesus or Ayn Rand.)

[@Pumbear]

@@AwesometownUSA The point isn't to be deep mate. They're simple statements of truth to get your life in order. It's like when a person has a relationship issue and you tell them they should communicate that with their partner. Is that a madd deep yo statement? No. But is it helpful advice. Yes. Oftentimes the most helpful ideas are simple, but you just need to be reminded of them.

[@badluckcity]

I am not a Peterson fan at all but I just wanted to comment on how fair and balanced this video was. We definitely need more civil discussion in this world and less instant demonization. Things have nuance, society tends to forget that these days.

[@daveouterspace]

That’s because there isn’t much nuance when it comes to mental illness

[@mysteryuser7062]

@Christopher Grant I don’t follow Jordon Peterson this closely. Please explain your comment

[@destroya3303]

@@mysteryuser7062 He says there is no right to compel people to say a certain pronoun, and says he has the right to either use someone's preferred pronoun or not. Scary! lol

[@destroya3303]

Fair, for a leftist

[@mysteryuser7062]

@@destroya3303 Oh my word! That literal Nazi. How dare he!

[@r.7530]

His works are admirable and he has definitely helped a lot of people, me included. But at the end of the day, he is human, with flaws and biases. We should keep that in mind.

[@BrandonCRFC]

Ill take a strong bias towards individual freedoms any day of the week.

[@mysteryuser7062]

@@BrandonCRFC I like that he preaches self responsibility too. So many entitled babies at my university

[@Assault_Butter_Knife]

And in his case those flaws were very much visible. I can't help but feel sorry for the guy, not only did he have to go through horrible experiences, but he also had to do that as a public figure. No surprise it took such a toll on him

[@cbj4sc1]

But as Jordan himself would probably say about his ideological enemies, flaw and bias isn't a good thing if someone isn't willing to learn from them. Jordan has not learned from his flaws nor does he take his bias into account when he speaks. If anything he's learned to dig his heels into the ground and embraces those bias's.

[@mysteryuser7062]

@@cbj4sc1 Philosophically, I’ve basically come to the realization that doing exactly that is literally what it means to be politically aligned with any ideology or political party. You are able to spot negatives and biases of your opponent and view them as therefore ignorant, which they are, but you are then unable to turn that logic back onto your own self and your own political party. You cannot turn your own logic back onto your political party, because that causes cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance occurs, because what you hold to be the absolute truth: political party/ideology is not absolute truth. You are intellectually enslaved to defend this falsehood you tell yourself, which is why I am a Centrist

[@Eternalised]

Peterson has his flaws, but has also helped a TON of people with his lectures/book(s). I don't get why people get defensive every time he is mentioned. This is a very well done video, I appreciate your hard work.

[@pillmuncher67]

Funny. The people I know don't get defensive when Peterson gets mentioned. They get angry or disgusted.

[@BorgurArt]

@@pillmuncher67 Very petty people, then, I presume.

[@manhattanvi]

I listen to this guy alot at work because I'm not the type that can listen to music while doing that job much and if you actually listen to what he's saying he's not saying anything bad, it's mostly analysis of a psychologist or just self help

[@BIONICLECLAYPOKEMON]

His ability to be a self-help guru of sorts doesn't inherently go to show his ability as a philosopher or psychologist, is the issue. No one is inherently denying that he has done some good, people are criticizing his ability to make well informed or coherent points in the two fields he claims to [/should] have experience in. The video even brings a good example of this up, that despite his need to rally against post-modernism, he uses it as more of a mirage of a scapegoat, with his consistent inability to show any real understanding of it only solidifying this.

[@seanaaron7888]

The reason why is explained in the video.

[@diddyKite2010]

He encourages people to not feel sorry for themselves, especially young men, and that is commendable and has no doubt saved many lives. He also seems to believe that this way is the only way, actively nostalgic for a world that never really existed. Show me the "natural" model where 1% of the lobsters controlled 99% of the resources.

[@jugbrewer]

he does encourage young men to blame their problems on boogeymen like birth control, though. like his whole thing about how we need enforced monogamy so more men can get laid? pretty obvious contradiction with the ethos of self-reliance and non-victimhood

[@noahperri9167]

@@jugbrewer “Enforced monogamy” was said in the context of meaning “culturally enforced monogamy.” Also, he doesn’t say we need that. He says that it helps prevent weak men becoming violent, since they feel less cheated. Again, weak is understood not primarily as physical weakness but moral weakness. If you listen to his long-form talks instead of clips, it is much easier to understand and gain insight from.

[@jugbrewer]

​@@noahperri9167 I know he means culturally enforced. I don't think he's accounting for the fact that monogamy as a cultural norm is an incredibly recent thing in our history, and exists in a minority of human cultures. Even looking at the bible, there isn't a single passage prohibiting multiple partners (and many people had many partners). Our culture of monogamy stems largely from state-enforced monogamy laws which were created quite recently and upheld precisely because they allow more men the chance to have families. The idea that people are becoming more and more promiscuous over time is easily refuted by the data. You could argue that we're living in the most monogamy-dominated time in our cultural history, as young people today will have fewer sexual partners in their lifetimes than older generations. Yet incidents like the Toronto Killer, where young men commit mass murder on the basis of not having access to women, is on the increase. Peterson said "The cure for that is enforced monogamy" but fails to demonstrate that monogamy is actually threatened in any way when compared to previous historical eras. On the topic of things like birth control, you could make the counterargument that birth control actually enhances men's ability to choose their partner, as it liberates them from the obligation of pairing up with the first woman they sleep with. It also means fewer single women in the dating pool have children, which means that men who are looking for partners are less likely to have to spend resources on kids that aren't theirs.

[@ernimuja6991]

@@jugbrewer The majority of men are becoming less promiscuous. The rest are becoming more. Ever heard of hypergamy? There’s no monogamy my friend. You need to research more.

[@nobilismaximus]

@@jugbrewer How recent, how incredible? By definition you said it wasn’t creadible

[@tomdrozdowski140]

It is definitely hard to create a critical analysis without glorification, nor vilification of one's actions. I really enjoyed the video!

[@nashburt6635]

Another thing to consider with his “clean your room first” argument is that people who are struggling under the current political system are much more likely to be dealing with numerous personal problems than those that are thriving under the current system. It’s essentially saying that the people that should decide if we make changes are those that benefit the least from changes being made.

[@darkstarr984]

In a literal sense, some people can clean others messes, but if they’re expected to actually clean their own before anyone else’s, they end up breaking down unable to do much at all.

[@stenlundvideo7663]

"u see the archetypes, they're there man! the son saves his father from the dragon! just look!" - killed me

[@astridmartin3736]

sameee

[@evansmith2766]

Generally once he breaches into the political realm he sorta stops being fully coherent, but his psychology stuff is really good for the most part

[@Talkboxeffectistrash]

More than sorta stops - he really really stops being coherent. It's almost like he's some sort of an authoritarian propagandist in the guise of fake anti-authoritarianism against minor social issues that only rich fuckwads give a shit to whine over, meanwhile the economic side of things (and thusly-related legislative history in the u.s.) - which 90% of most people are concerned with only and primarily, he is totally wrong on. But yeah. I do agree with you. 'For the most part' - as you said - key phrase. It's just too bad these uneducated edgelord 15 yr olds and loser neckbeards got looped in with the self help stuff and then listened to his asinine views about real world scenarios with real consequences for humanity. Because oh boy, we have a lot of stupids roaming about due to ppl like him and shapiro now and its utterly scary.

[@idudheebsbzdudbdhddh]

@@Talkboxeffectistrash Seething

[@Talkboxeffectistrash]

@@idudheebsbzdudbdhddh Avg reading wpm with full comprehension is 300, so that should have taken you less than a minute. Only explanation for how you could get "seething" out of what i typed, which was totally calm, is having not even read it, so I'm sorry about your reading skills :( Ik the typical fallback for neckbeards when they see a paragraph is to declare victory, because they are afraid (of themselves) of how wrong and dumb they know they are about stuff they wanna be toxic over, and try and mask their true feelings with "haha get memed on" vibes. Sorry you're having a bad day, maybe some choccy milk will go good with that cowboy bebop playlist :) lmao lortd

[@somedude3269]

@@Talkboxeffectistrash lortd?

[@Talkboxeffectistrash]

@@somedude3269 "lawdy lawdy"

[@Ggumas]

A guide to Slavoj Žižek?

[@starseer73]

ooh I want this

[@tanusree4124]

yes

[@mvnkycheez]

Pleeeeease i need this

[@hollin220]

Sniff..... yesss this would be.... snifff .... excellent..... please do

[@Magotropical]

YES, ANS SO ON AND SO ON!

[@josemarialaguinge]

The good thing about Peterson is that he introduced some people to philosophy, he helps people with basic ideas, but that's about it. He might help the lost dude that really needs that push, but a lot of people can do that, it's nothing special, most of those people just have issues that could be easily solved by either therapy or thinking harder. Doesn't take away from the fact that he helped a lot of people tho. But it needs to be recognized that he sucks now and is doing way more damage than good, I don't know what circumstances drove him to what he is now, but he is without a doubt part of the problem.

[@teapottim4807]

Respect to your incredible work. There must be so much effort and thought behind the scenes, to articulate something clearly. Thank you!

[@thetortoise7816]

Lol ikr, imagine actually researching someone’s work before criticizing it

[@Dilmee]

Peterson literally uses be articulate in every sentence, reminded me of that

[@govegan6682]

@@thetortoise7816 reading Peterson can be a pain in the ass if you know a thing or two about what he likes to talk about (outside psychology), because Peterson certainly doesn't

[@TheMrRaven]

I like the Irony. It's Solid.

[@Youshallbeeatenbyme]

His 40+ years as a psychologist gives him a lot of credit when it comes to his research aspects of psychology. The self-authoring program that he gives to his patients has good success rate (can't remember the % at the moment), as well as the studies that he's conducted with a correlation value higher than 0.4. I have a lot of criticisms of his non-psychological works, i.e. his self-help books, but when it comes to him being a psychologist he has quite the credulity. I also think that it's difficult to express how deeply engrained a type of existence is (i.e. the hierarchies we've lived in and thrived with throughout history) in such a way that makes sense to a lot of people. Explaining the way things are doesn't necessitate a type of prescription for how one should exist. It only necessitates that that way of existing has produced a thriving species on the planet...however maladaptive or proadaptive it is (couldn't think of a better fit for the opposite of maladaptive, 'cuz benadaptive sounds dumb). Peterson suggests that this is one tested method that brings results forward, and allows even a slight improvement upon the self over time.

[@owenschmidt8595]

It's taken me a while to get to where I am now, but Jordan Peterson is, at least in my eyes, is partly responsible for sending me down the "alt-right pipeline" in my early teenage years. Perhaps this isn't a symptom of him intrinsically but a symptom of me being younger and thus more susceptible to any idea fed to me. I watched Peterson's lectures which then led me to him talking on a few boards with Ben Shapiro. The algorithm picks this up and then recommends me other more radical channels and one day I wake up and believe that the "experiment of diversity" is a fallacy. After that I believed in an authoritarian ethno-state. I can't say this is singularly Peterson's fault, because after all, I was only around 14-15 years old. Regardless I think the ideas of Peterson outside of philosophy are ideas that are not terrible. Perhaps not all of these ideas apply to everyone, but I do wake up and make sure my bed is made and my desk is clean for the day. It's not that I want to impress anyone it just helps me get work done a lot easier now. I also like the idea of "petting cats on the street". In a sense, living in the small day-to-day pleasantries of life instead of getting caught up in ideas too large for me to handle. Some of the tenants of the 12 rules don't seem to construct a true picture of my perception of the way I live my life. Like the rule that goes something similar to: "Assume people are stupider than you." I disagree wholly with this statement. I think even the most stupid of people I've met have something to show me, whether that be about myself or about the world, and discounting them as being stupider than me makes the presentation of learning something from them a pill more difficult to swallow. This is the first channel on KZbin where I have felt comfortable enough to send a large comment sharing my thoughts on the video and I cannot thank Sisyphus 55 enough for this. The videos posted here are a bastion for me whenever I am feeling philosophically creative. Anyways this is an incredibly long comment and if you managed to read to the end thanks for the time you spent reading.

[@tito-xz8mh]

I’d just like to clarify, are you talking about the rule “Assume the person you are talking to knows something you don’t?” Cause the “rule” that you just laid out completely contradicts the one that is in the book. Also I’m happy you open yourself up so when I say this don’t take it as an attack but as a comment from a neutral observer. I think it may be quite a stretch to jump from Peterson to Shapiro and then to the “fallacy of diversity/ethno-state” I don’t watch Shapiro all to often but he just seems to be a hard conservative not alt-right. It entirely possible the algorithm kept testing you to see if you would go farther right and if it succeeded in doing so, I wouldn’t put that at the feet of Peterson or Shapiro. Nonetheless I’m happy you got away from that psychotic and dogmatic way of thinking. Extremes on either end tend to only focus on ideas rather than practical wisdom.

[@CasualDandyAkaSqwrty]

Thank you for clarifying, I couldn't tell which rule they were talking about. That rule doesn't read at all like the OP's interpretation, to me. But I did watch some Ben Shapiro thanks to the algorithm. I liked him on the Rubin Report, but he kept his views half-occluded on there, or gave the best side he could present. What my Rubin/Shapiro rabbithole did for me was reinforce that identity politics are inherently destructive. If you want an echo chamber, don't be surprised when you don't progress your views. If you keep an open BUT DISCERNING mind when listening to both sides then you'll find your way closer to the truth. This comment wasn't necessarily for you two above, but for the people who want to follow JBP and really any other person to an extreme. Extremism isn't good. Ideologies make an easy 'bad guy' but are often destructive rather than constructive. Glad for all the people thinking, keep on keepin' on.

[@tito-xz8mh]

@@CasualDandyAkaSqwrty spot on man. Even if you follow a person who doesn’t hold radical beliefs, you can still trap yourself in a certain mode of thinking if you don’t branch out. In my opinion, it’s all about allowing people to help show you a path but then to eventually start cutting your own weeds

[@hero9402]

Good luck for future buddy

[@matthewjouffray]

So was that because of JP or the algorithm though?

[@anmlbhndari7310]

The best analyses of Peterson I have seen on the internet so far. Thank You Sisyphus, keep making amazing content.

[@gloomylobster111]

Oh so he gets to be the "king" lobster but I'm stuck being the gloomy lobster

[@beesafterdark5644]

Clean your room and stand up straight then. Maybe then you won't be so gloomy.

[@DOOMZEDAY]

Win more fights, get the chest up

[@marksamuel4205]

Snap them claws triumphantly high up in the air wherever you go.

[@seanwarren9357]

That's the idea...

[@ellengran6814]

Only if you believe in Peterson.

[@mathewcammarota7114]

Claims Peterson’s fears of compelled speech by the state is unfounded because “legal experts” claim there are rigorous standards....conveniently leaves out that Peterson’s employer has their legal team issue him a warning that he may be in violation of said bill.... The issue with this video is it leaves out the Claim, criticism, rebuttal structure that is needed to get the context on both sides...by presenting Peterson’s critics POV but not following up with his rebuttal to those criticisms it just presents him as being unable to back up his initial claim. The second assertion with issue is the claim that there is no serious left wing academics or intellectuals that are post modern neomarxist....meanwhile there are self described Marxist who fall in line with all the social movements of post modern ideological thought...i mean is that not the evidence of post modern neomarxist ? What does it then mean to have a university professor advocate for collective ownership of the means of production, while advocating for the post modern interpretation of things like the disintegration of the nuclear family, the demolition of gender roles, the redefinition of debate, scientific method, or classical studies as tools of a type of power play. If you just include the rebuttals you’ll add at most 5 minutes to the video and have it be balanced...anyone who watches this and not the large number of videos that have come out surrounding Peterson over a great amount of time will inventively get a bent perspective

[@copyninja8756]

Yeah, Peterson's work already debunked the criticisms in the piece, lol

[@TheJuan9-11]

I agree

[@idansim1]

im quite a big peterson fan and i do agree with you, but also i think that this video did a very good job at trying to be neutral and fair to both sides. sure some things were left out but it never felt malicious to me and in today's climate that's an accomplishment that i commend.

[@roddydykes7053]

I would really like to know what the appeal is for people to try to downplay or otherwise go against the uplifting message Peterson has been at all this time. Just because they don’t agree with him politically or think he’s bigoted for his completely reasonable stance on issues.

[@oglad459]

Nobody has been arrested for using incorrect pronouns in Canada.

[@alexnelson7258]

A concise, clear, fair criticism of Jordan Peterson. That's rarer than a white lobster. Well done.

[@marksamuel4205]

I’ve never seen a white lobster rarer than well done.

[@polkabike]

Peterson: People look for manufactured meaning in ideologies to escape the chaos of life Also Peterson: Waaaait a minute, this gives me an idea!

[@eattoast6378]

I've never grasped the controversy with peterson, because I've only ever payed attention to his lectures. People feel so strongly either for or against him that i feel really weird sitting in the middle.

[@infinite1483]

Well my main strife with him is his mischaracterization of Marxism.

[@mihailmilev9909]

@@infinite1483 yea that's a p big red flag

[@mihailmilev9909]

@@infinite1483 I can't believe how in our current society big social figures and influencers can just get away with straight up lying about things as simple as the definitions of terms to millions of people repeatedly, nay on a regular basis

[@eattoast6378]

@@mihailmilev9909 You can't believe that? The u.s is going through the most aggressive era of misinformation its experienced since Reagan's War on drugs. This is the era of post truth, and unfortunately no ones tribe is innocent. At least thats in the states. Idk where you are. But like, half of our entire country doesn't even believe in our elections anymore, because the 2 leading teams are on this constant super aggressive misinformation campaign against each other that nobody ever fucking knows what's going. And then they wonder why we have such an issue with so many conspiracy schizos..

[@moparty4409]

@@mihailmilev9909 I don't know man it seems pretty rational to fear the idea. Taking my stuff then giving it away seems like a step back for society.

[@mercurybean2032]

JP has helped me get through my addiction and homelessness

[@igornowicki29]

Jesus Christ, you were homeless?

[@emantide1262]

That's a wonderful thing :)

[@Alex-wn8qh]

@PiK lol bruh what

[@kkounal974]

That's great! But please don't be mindless when it comes to your idols everyone has brainfarts and when his audience justifies them rather that criticizing them it genuinely causes harm.

[@Joshpower57]

@@kkounal974 like with marxism and how marxist won't criticize it's a horrible idea that will never work, instead of saying, "well that's not true marxism".

[@ignaspan]

Naturalistic fallacy? JP never said hierarchies are good because they are natural. Therefore no naturalistic fallacy.

[@timothyspool1399]

It's so funny that people love the lobster analogy so much, but then go on to get it so completely wrong.

[@toru8451]

Peterson didn't do naturalistic fallacy tho. He said that it's natural, but that it doesn't mean it's good

[@erikkooy2804]

He strongly implies it, and uses it as a foundation for other arguments.

[@toru8451]

@@erikkooy2804 that's a disgusting misrepresentation of his argument. His point is that hierarchical structure isn't something that humans made, instead it's a thing that you can see in other species and it's something we evolved to help us survive. It's darwinism at it's core. However he's not saying it's good, he's just stating a fact that it exists.

[@philhub5499]

@@toru8451 nah dude, Erik had it right

[@agustin4741]

@@toru8451 You are missing the point of why he said that and when, something being natural doesnt make it unchangeable or that we shouldnt aim to make it less "bad" if we label that as such. Its the end goal that he never states but heavilly implies given that his comments tend to aim to delegitimize demands. Who would say to a person with syphilys to dont take shots of penicillin because thats unnatural?

[@ignaspan]

@@philhub5499 “nah dude” is your argumentation against everything Toru said? Not surprising.

[@swanijam]

this is the chillest critique of JBP i have seen. truly an achievement

[@yes7855]

bruh if your videos had subtitles they would be unstoppable! i think it would be pretty easy to have someone do them too, especially if you have a script or something!

[@mvnkycheez]

closed captions exist my bro

[@yes7855]

@@mvnkycheez nah they don’t, just the automatic ones which aren’t good

[@mrrolandlawrence]

Its best to get life advice from someone not in the middle of a fully public mental breakdown. I hope JP is getting the help he needs. His previous trajectory was leading him to a bad place.

[@ShadowMantis702]

I hate that folks use a disagreement on politics as a reason to write off his other works. Peterson offers self help in a digestible and articulate way like no other. “Self help” is usually pretty cringe, but Pete uses psychology and philosophy into practical use - instead of the childish optimism we usually get from “keynote speakers.” You don’t have to agree with his politics to agree with his life lessons. Soak in what you find useful, discard the rest if you like.

[@danboofin5094]

Facts he brings up Jordan's critiques on post modernism and immediately says "this phrase is heavily interchangeable with neo Marxism which is a far right antisemitic conspiracy that has caused several terror attacks recently" or something along those lines. Sisyphus is definitely drawing unwarranted conclusions in alot of his points and his bias against peterson is evident. He's trying trying to make peterson look much worse than he actually is and says almost nothing positive about him except maybe 30 seconds at the very very end.

[@saosaqii5807]

Lesson or summary of the comment: Give credibility where credibility is due

[@medinbeqiri8346]

@@danboofin5094 I see the same exact thing it seems as if he tries to tie Jordan Peterson into promoting the far right when he has actively disregarded far right thinking. It seems somewhat biased in this video and likes to play down Jordan Peterson because of he’s right leaning political thought. He also tries to ties he’s right leaning base into dogmatism and potentially dangerous which I think is unfair and unaccounted unless you think being transphobic is “far right”

[@danboofin5094]

@@medinbeqiri8346 its very dangerous he tries to tie correlation to causation and associating peterson to causing many dangerous ideas. Also by bringing up politics and social issues he disregards his philosophy which is the while reason people sub to his channel. His politics shouldn't discredit his works and what he says.

[@MNDorse]

“If no one can really agree on what someone has said, did they really say anything at all” The Bible is perpetually quoted by people who violently disagree with one another, so I hope so.

[@a.bagasm.7253]

Too much chaos, i agree.if its too vague, its nihilistic. If its too clear, its boring. Just like what dr. Peterson always said,meaning can be found in the middle straight narrow line of both. Just like what dr. Peterson thinks of the bible's weakness being half clear and half vague.

[@mickj9203]

@@a.bagasm.7253 I have no idea what you just said. If you want to understand the Bible at its earliest roots try the scholars. Not the preachers

[@justiceforjoggers2897]

@@mickj9203 Amen

[@aim-9sidewinder550]

yeah both said something, but just have different comfort that they value more.

[@dl3537]

Yeah and the Bible isn't much better than Peterson for taking it literally to guide your life. Still better though because Jesus was absolutely Based AF. Jesus would be a socialist

[@RedCarRecords]

Anybody else love how he often ends his thoughts with, “... so...”

[@relativeparadox9567]

A really smart guy with HUGE socio-political blindsides. Around 2019 I thought he could have been the voice of balance but he demonstrated otherwise when he started make a boogie man out of extremes of the left while being blind to the excesses of the modern right.

[@rafaelmacias3166]

you're blind if you still believe that. The left want to destroy, revolutionize, the right wants to keep what we have and not let it go to shit. The left are basically indoctrinated by Marxists/communist ideas and pose much more of a danger to society then a couple of proud boys that boast about god and country and want to keep their guns.

[@weareallstardust1859]

If he were "really smart" he would have dealt with his own biases before writing ANY self-help literature. He is a well-spoken man of average intelligence who presents himself as someone who should be emulated. He is ultimately damaging society by spreading his ideas as legitimate facts & ultimately we will all pay the price for his hubris.

[@sircrackboi]

but did you clean your room before writing this comment ?

[@benjaminschroder4074]

@@weareallstardust1859 While i agree that some of J.P’s points are flawed, i feel that i need to correct your comment on the following: 1. It’s not possible to rid yourself of all personal bias. You can get quite far through honest self-reflection, and truly listening to other people with other opinions, but you can never rid yourself of it. 2. To state that Jordan Peterson is a man of average Intelligence, is to either use an absurdly broad definition of “average”, or to vastly overestimate the intellect of the average person.

[@Digital_PeterGriffin]

@@weareallstardust1859 lmao he’s “damaging society” definitely no bias here

[@shadowdawns889]

You forgot the part where a teacher was fired from her job under hate speech in university just for showing video of Jordan Peterson debating in her class

[@marksamuel4205]

Well, that is a disagreed on topic so based on the logic presented here it probably didn’t happen lol

[@shadowdawns889]

@@marksamuel4205 well internet's saying it happened

[@Sisyphus55]

Lindsay Shepard? She was a teaching assistant and I would definitely side with her. There’s nothing wrong with fairly presenting different views in a class room setting and she was unfairly punished. I would argue that Peterson and Shepard were in the right to criticize the move by the university

[@theurbanegentleman4550]

JBP promulgates dangerous, hateful, and wrong opinions that reinforce white heteropatriarchy. His hate speech is not free speech. Also the University is private so free speech doesn’t count anyway. Educate yourself

[@marksamuel4205]

@@theurbanegentleman4550 do you think the university should be a partisan institution? Or only if the university sides with the political leaning of your choice?

[@BudoBoy0007]

As someone who has watched a lot of Jordan Peterson, thank you so much for this video. I'd always thought that most of the critisism was fairly weak but this video brought up some great points for both sides.

[@belakoriath3659]

I mean the dude compares humans with lobsters... or something like that. Who would even think of that?

[@govegan6682]

Watch the contrapoints video if you actually want legit criticism

[@medinbeqiri8346]

@@belakoriath3659 did you not see the connection between the hierarchy of competence of lobsters to the hierarchy of today? In the video it says “the few have more wealth than 50%” just like in our society. Sure the connection with lobsters is unusual but valid.

[@MinecraftMasterNo1]

I've seen better criticism, from people who have actually admitted that they hate him, than this biased trash of a video. Maybe it's because they don't try to grand stand as some paragon of neutrality

[@uzairsheikh8434]

Peterson doesn't literally says to clean your room. It is a metaphorical term to first solve your inner resolves and then go help somebody else. To put it in jungian term how are you suppose to shed light on another person's shadow if your own shadow is darker than the night.

[@palindromia130]

That's not true. He does literally say this. He says this as response to those who aren't in positions of power or authority to enact broad-scale change as something they could do which would constitute a net positive in the world.

[@uzairsheikh8434]

@@palindromia130 i agree that self discipline plays an essential part of living a fulfilled life. But if you look into the lives of intellects and philosopher's when they started out they were not in a position of power and they were some of the most disorganized people even later in their life like nietzche.Peterson makes the point that if you have a just cause that serves your community or country in some way you have to first adopt a certain discipline that serves your purpose and when in the pursuit of that purpose if you see that some inner resolve is hindering you process you need to sort it out. Because how a psychologist suppose to help a patient through ptsd if he himself is suffering from trauma.

[@palindromia130]

@@uzairsheikh8434 Let me rephrase my point. Nearly everyone agrees that some radical change is necessary to bring about the perfect world we all envision, however, no one person possesses the power or authority to do so (and even if they did the temptation to abuse that power is too great for any one human to resist). Therefore, you are faced with two choices: Either be miserable and blame the world for all your problems lamenting, "Oh if only my utopia would become a reality then suffering would end," or do at least SOME little good that can do. One of those things is literally cleaning your room. In so doing you have not only registered a net positive on at least your own life (how ever small that impact might be) but you may even discover that it isn't the world, and all its supposed oppressive systems, where your problems lie, rather, it's your own disorganized life. This is literal advice in a clinical sense and has little to do with how old philosophers lived.

[@uzairsheikh8434]

Well i guess i haven't thought it from that point of view. Thank u for giving me a new perspective🙂

[@Czar_Moss]

I always hate learning about people like him, because any information on them is "theyre so smart and cool and amazing" or "they're literally a demon" and you can never trust what you hear I'm glad I can trust you dude 👍

[@billybobjenkins2893]

He's a guy who thinks a lot trying to navigate and understand the world he lives in.

[@harryc5595]

I think Peterson is of net benefit to society. Sure some of his views are a bit sketchy, but he also wrote a bestselling book that has helped thousands of people improve their own life, and the lives of those around them too. That, in the long run, will only serve to strengthen future generations and for that I am grateful.

[@Natalie-wr3iz]

'Some' of his views, lol. Fans of his book are much more likely to open wide for his shitty views. Then there are those who are fans of him just for these shitty views. Net negative, easily.

[@seanaaron7888]

@@Natalie-wr3iz Name these shitty views

[@bilbobaggins9420]

@@Natalie-wr3iz ok troomer

[@Tofu_va_Bien]

@@seanaaron7888 Oh I don't know, perhaps the view that is safe for human health to consume a diet consisting of only beef, salt and water? And then going on to encourage his daughter to pedal this dangerous idea to some poor ejits who are being tricked into believing they can cure their chronic illness with this insane advice for a sky high fee. I would say that that is pretty fucking scummy thing to be doing, and this doesn't even cover the damage his intellectual dishonesty has caused to the current political landscape. This video lets him off the hook way too much.

[@dn8601]

I disagree personally. Many of his ideas like "marxist postmodernism", "trans right activism's evil", "cleaning up ones room before trying to change society" and his spread of misinformation and pseudointellectualism are extremely bad for society. It's really sad how ideas like this can get so popular.

[@yourix2]

I am going to be completely frank and say i am a big fan of Jordan B. Peterson. Even thought i do not agree with all his points i admire him for shaking up things and making people more aware of their lives. I actually do make up my bed every morning it helps me mentally in an odd way (And let's be honest you are supposed to that anyways...). Knowing i can fix this small thing it helps me or motivates me to fix other bigger challenges in my life.

[@akh3152]

0:12 Chomsky's still alive, dog!

[@ivan55599]

Or he is implying, that he is not anymore mainstream's spotlight.

[@adley5755]

Chomsky is dead. The one who lives is a clone.

[@chickenwing27]

Chomsky is a king!!! Hope he lives forever. Civil Rights icon.

[@fgjhham89]

He's turning 92 in a couple of weeks, I think

[@abdurrazzaq2314]

Chomsky is eternal!

[@MamaEliseLockwood]

He definitely is someone with very strong opinions which are shaped by his own life, as we all are. I enjoy listening to his podcasts, he has very interesting conversations with very interesting people.

[@XXXX-yc6wv]

I found this overall a fair critique. On the note that he has strong appeal to disenfranchised males, I think you fall foul of the general societal shrugging off of that as a problem. It is a very serious problem, one that is not being taken seriously by society as a whole, and the fact that Peterson's empowering of these young men is cast as "problematic" is evidence in itself that society is not merely ignoring this issue, but is actively engineering it. Then society can't stop wondering why things like school shootings are almost exclusively committed by disenfranchised young white males. There is a very strong argument to be made that it is far better that someone like Peterson lead them out of the woods by empowering them to take control of their lives than to have them radicalized or commit atrocities.

[@bobsaget1708]

Weird how you can speak for how a group is experiencing the world. It’s really telling of your own hubris you don’t recognize the double standard you’re acting with and to be honest just how incorrect you are. Many young white men are disenfranchised, whether that’s from a “loss of privilege”, something else entirely, or a mixture of things is up for debate. But the reason they feel disenfranchised is not grounds for them to not be disenfranchised, that’s what you seem to fail at grasping.

[@konan8353]

@Roa Thanks for summing up hundreds of thousands of people's personal problems for them. Ironically you write like a sheltered brat, but I'm sure you've had a much tougher life than everyone else here, and you're not just posturing because it makes you feel good :(

[@gur262]

It's not evidence. What's true is that society has the capacity and should care about everyone and not mock one groups problems, worse or not or even imagined. Doesnt make Peterson not problematic. Don't have a problem with cleaning your room. That you gotta deal with your life,? Yeah. However the part where he tells people to shut up n not demonstrate for anything and be Christian and some sexist shit is the problem. Nobody has too much of a problem with a dont take drugs message though it can be a bit much... But when that message comes from scientology, you got doubts what virus that message carries

[@erickramirez8428]

You can have every priviledge in the world and still be miserable. Maybe Peterson resonates with that group because he's miserable too and is trying to find value in these influencer experiences. He may be prejudiced and sexist but I wouldn't say he's having a negative impact on his audience. I find it interesting how a couple of months ago I was agreeing completely with him and then later agreed with philosophy tube's and the other girl's takedowns on him. Diversity of opinions is the best to form your own criteria

[@songbird7450]

@Roa found the feminist

[@nicobruin8618]

7:30 why are you making the is/ought fallacy on his behalf? You said the naturalistic fallacy occurs when people claim that when something is natural it is good, but as you correctly showed Peterson merely claims that dominance hierarchies are natural. I've yet to hear him say that hierarchies therefore are morally right.

[@abdurrazzaq2314]

bruh you're unhinged

[@fromeveryting29]

Well, considering he is a capitalist I think we can safely assume he thinks it's the "best" social structure we have. He does not explicitly state it is good, you are right, but he seems to suggest something like "it is what will always tend to happen - so we might as well accept it"

[@nicobruin8618]

​@@fromeveryting29 don't think you can safely assume that. Let me provide a plausible alternative. He may very well believe that natural hierarchies are unfair, but that basically everything you can do to artificially rid yourself of natural processes requires some form of tyranny. Which is a common critique of Marxism. If I had to defend the proposition my answer would approximate something like that at least. I'm not sure if you've seen the Peterson/Zizek debate on capitalism vs Marxism, but I recall that a lot of it came down to Peterson attacking Marxism and not defending capitalism whilst Zizek was doing the reverse.

[@otto_jk]

@@nicobruin8618 it's one of the worst debates that I have listened. Peterson's misrepresentations of Marx and Zizeks perpetual flu made the whole thing a chore to listen.

[@nicobruin8618]

@@otto_jk not the mention the fact that the audience seems to have thought they were watching a rap battle

[@simonDopeSRB]

I would dare to say that he crafted his own ideology even when he says that he hates them. But the difference is that it's just a way of thinking, he is constantly saying that you can disagree with him, he admits there are things he hasn't figured out, he doesn't claim to have every answer, and most importantly he doesn't spoon-feed you, he gives you the tools to go there and think and speak and write. I would say he's closer to a father figure than to a ideologue. Actually he made me interested in psychology and philosophy. And most importantly he is realist, he isn't trying to craft a utopia, because those things have been done in the past and they turn into dystopia in a blink of an eye, he analyzes the world as it is, and he is translating the work of great minds and also of past civilizations, he isn't inventing anything. I always thought of these humanities fields as too interpretative but finding that Peterson not only studies from other people but from scientific data made me feel much more into these fields. JP is truly a king lobster, I'm gonna clean my room now.

[@Francisco-bu9ew]

The story of JP is kind of sad, his early works could really help you on dark times, his messages were about putting your life together and be good, but then once he got into politics (which he early stated wasn't interested in) it made his life went into a "weird" way. He could have focused on research and maybe find something of clinical value to actual patients, but maybe that way he wouldn't have published a best seller. But instead he gathered an internet public of radical people with poor understanding of social issues and acted kind of like a "guru" to them losing all respect in the academic and clinical field.

[@dmob881]

You know, there's a lot in what you say. I did a (very brief) analysis of his top 30/40 cited papers. Much of his post-doctorate work from the 1990's - on his actual discipline of alcohol/drug addiction and related violence - is in there. Notwithstanding the inherent flaws in citations etc., he seemed to have been doing something genuinely worthwhile when he was at McGill. But it seems to have all fallen away when he went to Harvard, which is where he wrote Maps of Meaning. There's almost nothing from the point he got his professorship. It's all 'big five' related - his psychometric testing business. Made me wonder if he just got greedy.

[@lifechann]

@@dmob881 I would consider the history of medical conditions he and his family has, before calling him greedy.

[@dmob881]

​@@lifechann Those medical issues appeared in 2019 . He was at Harvard in 1993-1998 and got his full professorship at UofT in 2003. He set up his psychometric testing business soon after and the vast majority of his research since that time has been in this field - 'big five' related. There has been almost nothing by way of research in his principle discipline since then. He also developed other revenue streams during this time - eg as a paid expert witness in court cases and on local TV giving lectures and as a 'pundit' - before starting his rise to fame at the end of 2016. Rebel Media gave him money for further research in the field of 'personality' in March 2017 when his application for further gov't funding was refused. That same month, he re-branded/re-launched his psychometric testing business as an online personality test. See 'Understand Myself'. He also closed his clinic while under investigation for professional misconduct. The situation, he said, was caused by rising demands on his time. He simply could not 'do the job properly'. *This was two years before his wife's cancer was diagnosed, and his addiction issues were made public* I can find no mention of any major medical conditions/worries before he was well established - ie mid 2018. That's *after* he went on unpaid leave (sabbatical) from the UofT, *after* the sale of 12 rules, *after* his first full world tour promoting the book and *after* his Patreon account had reached a reported $1million pa. He was writing the follow up to 12 rules when he became ill and went to Russia. So, no. Not sold.

[@Francisco-bu9ew]

I don't consider him greedy, I think is kind of the influence of the "fandom" he gathered

[@dmob881]

@@Francisco-bu9ew Again, I think there's a lot in what you say and I 100% agree with you... 'greedy' was a badly chosen word.

[@a-aronpre-sent1447]

JP really changed my whole outlook on life for the better. Listening to his lectures on archetypes in particular is verbal ecstasy for my ears.

[@viralmelon]

your conclusion is one ive always held: not a titan, not evil either

[@avengingme]

I think that's Peterson's own view as well. All men are fallible.

[@mvnkycheez]

Peterson has admitted a few times that most of his stuff isn't really original and is largely based on Jung and Nietzsche

[@Unlucky-Dube]

'not evil either' And why would that have ever been a consideration?

[@jsmith4130]

@@Unlucky-Dube it must be considered a possibility for all men’s actions. Just pure selfish evil

[@Unlucky-Dube]

@@jsmith4130 Sure but this instance it seems to be a significant consideration for seemingly no actualy reason.

[@fergusmgraham]

I like Peterson and have followed him for a few years now. I think you presented a very balanced precis of him, his work and his impact. Well done.

[@qwertyqwertz2802]

I used to watch his lectures online when i was in college around 2015-2016. It was so crazy to see him go from those tiny numbers to this international phenomenon overnight. I really think he’s lost his marbles by now.

[@thoughttranscending]

"If nobody can really agree on something that someone has said, have they really said anything at all?" Short answer - yes "Long" answer - A statement or inquiry's existence isn't contingent on how people interpret it. If information is conveyed, then something has been "said"; no matter how factual, helpful, or straightforward the information, people will have different interpretations and disagree with one another. Now if you asked, "if nobody can really agree on something that someone has said, have they really said anything of value?" (which is probably what you meant, just poorly worded for dramatic effect), I would say you're onto something. Once again, though, I would say yes. The way I see it, the less people can agree on a statement or question, the more important it is that it be considered. Novel/controversial perspectives are only dangerous when acted upon, taken to extremes, and/or viewed as the unequaled truth, not when brought to light as a means of discussion and evolution of perspective. If disagreement and conflict are born of a statement, that likely means that statement has value, whether it is correct and/or moral or not.

[@anthonynorman7545]

Is controversy for controversy's sake valuable? There are many edgy people that say things just to be edgy.

[@smc9207]

But if we take the sentence as literal as it seems and simplify it. If A said hello, B thought he said halo, c thought he said low then it is true that, as if A had never said anything at all because of disagreement. B and C would then walk away without realizing A was greeting them. And if apply this to a larger context. If something is so controversial and no one have the power to enact their own value because of disagreement that it would then be useless to say it, because in this way saying is just a mean, result is the end.

[@Snakefarm223]

I think it’s more of an issue of how the message of the person in question gets muddled up through public discourse until you’re left with a character of the original idea. In that sense what remains is not the original thoughts of the individual, but instead a convenient archetype that can be warped for whatever situation you wish to use it for.

[@thoughttranscending]

@@anthonynorman7545 I would say there are two forms of value. That which is/is perceived as valuable by society, and that which has value to an individual. I think edgy statements for the sake of being edgy do have value on an individual basis; whether it be some form of attention, self expression, or an emotional outlet, there seems to be a goal in mind (conscious or not) with every action a person takes and every word a person says. The presence of a goal implies the actions' or words' have value to the individual. In terms greater than the individual, I wouldn't think that being edgy for the sake of being edgy has any real value. I would differentiate edgy from controversy though. I don't think you can truly be controversial without reason, since people will ignore your statement and dismiss it otherwise. A controversial statement for the sake of controversy, in my interpretation, requires others to engage, otherwise it was not a really controversial statement. If others are willing to engage, that likely means they see some modicum of truth or meaning in your statement. The perceived value of the discussion and thoughts generated will vary widely, but if controversy and discussion are created, then I believe there is value to be had in the potential to explore new perspectives. Whether people will use the opportunity and seek out the value of these moments is another thing altogether. Sorry if my explanation is a clusterfudge and lacks depth. Your question was quite thought provoking and I am not always the best at articulating my thoughts!

[@anthonynorman7545]

@@thoughttranscending an edgy person can make a racist joke to be edgy. People who find no truth or sound reasoning in racism but are concerned with societal harm from the racism. Is that an example of a counter argument to you?

[@underdogproductions7750]

Very well done video. I enjoy Peterson’s lectures and typically agree with him on most topics. You can tell he generally likes teaching and passing down his knowledge to students. It’s a shame to see all the hate that he gets, but I think this is due to all the praise he gets. A sort of yin and yang cycle, too much praise of an individual is sure to produce hate and that is okay, we should criticize ideas. Maybe if he would have stuck to psychology and self help teachings he would have been less hated. Then again he would never have become famous and listened to by many. You can tell he is a genuinely good guy though with a love for knowledge. He wants people to pursue an education and learn and become more articulate so that they can think for themselves. Which is where I am grateful. After finding him on KZbin and listening to a couple lectures I decided to enroll myself back into school and get my life together. I just finished my first semester back and made better grades than I ever did before. This is something I am sure I could have done on my own, but watching his videos was the kick in the ass I needed.

[@natthekiwi7074]

He gets a lot of criticism because he talks about things he’s not knowledgeable enough to talk about and phrases things conveniently to give hollow psychological “support” to arguments stemming from religious dogma (homophobia and transphobia to name two). Jordan Peterson is not someone to place on a pedestal.

[@underdogproductions7750]

@@natthekiwi7074 what makes him unqualified to talk about these things? Dr. Peterson is a psychologist and professor. He’s probably put in more research than most on these topics, and is able to properly articulate himself when discussing such matters. Just because you disagree with what he preaches doesn’t make your opinion any more valuable.

[@underdogproductions7750]

@Luis Jayons The video was an overview of Peterson’s life and work. With the opinions of the author thrown in.

[@nabDoesYoutube]

I wouldn't call it a hit piece but I'd call it a balanced view and shows to be sceptic to anything you see!

[@aneria56df93]

I mean he is kinda hypocritical and doesn't add up :/

[@redline1916]

Jordan Peterson's points are as you take them, not as they are written in stone. Of course every author with any background in societal change will have a fair amount of criticism, but if you are able to take what they said and use it for good, that is what really counts.

[@Mushyguy117]

I like listening to him talk, not to agree or disagree. I just love how he talks so fluently and is able to put such complicated ideas and answers into words most people understand, for me at least. It's like finally finding an abstract painter you actually understand.

[@1chaplain]

Ah yes, Shrek Truly a legendary work of art

[@onetruecaesar99]

I like this video a lot. I see a lot of people online either bitching about how Peterson is a fascist, or praising him for his enormous intelligence/profoundness. Neither of those positions are accurate, I think.

[@jailam_]

Yes, he clearly is not as black and white as that, he's in a really grey area imo

[@Infamous1892]

Because you haven't take the time to watch his videos, and see for yourself.

[@kadoosantos]

Based

[@joaogarcia6170]

Sisyphus on this video always shows critics of Peterson (which isn't bad btw) but he didn't do this to any other thinker I've seen he cover, which leads me to believe he's doesn't like Peterson at all, not only for this but because there are two badly explained arguments here mainly the naturalistic fallacy (which he doesn't commit since he doesn't attribute a positive value to hierarchies) and the "clean your room" the latter is taken too literally coming from the guy that is inspired by Yung, if he believed this why would he be a public figure on the debate ? Cleaning your room is sorting yourself out and not projecting every problem in your life to the world.

[@Frdyan]

"both sides" - soy

[@serbanmarin6373]

10:50 is the funniest thing ever

[@m0thdm]

LMAOOOOOO

[@DkKombo]

Omg I didnt realize it at first

[@mihailmilev9909]

Holy shit this is almost by definition hidden gold

[@mihailmilev9909]

How do I save a comment

[@Endoterrestrials]

+1

[@rose_d_mary]

Literally nothing inherently bad about Peterson inspiring people to take charge of their own lives, that's just an understandable perspective and completely valid. I however do have a gigantic problem with how stupid his perspective of gay and trans people is.