The Localization Dilemma

[@FourteenthAngel]

This doesn’t isn’t even limited to video games. I constantly have to argue with other fans about Yugioh and Dragonball and Pokémon because far more people are familiar with their localizations. I always surprise people when I tell them the Shadow Realm is a complete utter fabrication made up by the localization team at 4kids.

[@belstar1128]

Yea any form of media is affected by this. the old school anime was particularly annoying for me in retrospect. because i am from Europe and i didn't grow up speaking English. but the Dutch version of these shows. had all the bad changes from the American one despite us not being American and our culture is more liberal.

[@lpfan4491]

Tbh, what does not help is that people explain the change wrong. People often say "It means they died" or "shadows were entirely made up", even tho that is not the case.

[@CarlosRoyalTiger]

Still mad that TCG cards are censored.

[@FourteenthAngel]

@@CarlosRoyalTiger Everything pertaining to YGO in the West is censored to some degree and despite it not really being necessary anymore it still is.

[@Senraikai]

So many people defend bad localization practices simply because they conflate criticism of bad localization with attacking their favorite localized game. Great video. Keep up the good work!

[@Token-j1n]

It's really not good to say those disagreeing with your opinion are just "defending bad localisation". It's just another way to say "if you disagree with me, you're wrong." This youtuber calls most changes bad because they're different, regardless of how slight.

[@spectraphantom6597]

@@Token-j1n It was made clear that necessity is when changes are warranted.

[@Token-j1n]

@@spectraphantom6597 Except their idea of necessity is just Japanese sayings, changes of certain names and nothing else. Even if the meaning is the exact same, it's an issue to them lmao.

[@Token-j1n]

@@spectraphantom6597 Except their definition of necessity is really flawed.

[@vert3823]

The overlocalization for Final Fantasy XII was so egregious, it motivated me to learn Japanese more seriously. I also remember there were some people who claimed the English version was more enriched or superior to the Japanese version even though they didn't speak a word of Japanese. It is as you say in the video that these people are not fans of the original work, but are fans of the localization.

[@Raptor980187]

The Fire Emblem situation was always weird. There've been odd, freaky moments in the series since the games have been sold to Western audiences (like Orson from The Sacred Stones relishing in his dead corpse of a wife), yet face petting is a bit too strange. We've had themes of racism, slavery, but we still get other shit left out. It's a very weird time in the western FE community.

[@lpfan4491]

People in the german FE community genuinely say it is a good change that they censored "Subhuman" to "Half-Human" in FE9 because "it would have been inappropriate". Like idk, I probably would have agreed if it was just a side-thing, but the legit highkey racism-reflection is not only half the plot, but also basically the entire lore. I get being uncomfortable because germany has its own "past" with dehuminizitation, but it being harsh is sorta the point?

[@Nemurihime]

The FE fanbase and the localisation are both really bad. I went there to check if people dislike the changes too, but nothing. The few they did got basically bullied out. Reading stuff like character X was gross in the original and are now happy he got changed, is just too much for me. 😭 Particularly Anna and Jean are a hot topic there... Anyway, great video as always, keep up the good work!

[@belstar1128]

Let me guess reddit?

[@lpfan4491]

Honestly, idk what changed. People said it was rediculous to write in a nohrian law that makes Elise an adult at her lower age(Ya know, the character you can marry regardless of version), but a similar situration where they straight up say "hold up, let's not have romance at this point" is an issue uncensored, just because they display more emotional closeness? It clearly moves it into the category of "censorship that is not meant to protect anything besides our own egos", because the line drawn is completely arbitrary. And I don't even understand. Why do people WANT to support a product they find offensive? That only makes the devs make more products like that because they don't know people only bought it for the localization, lmao. 😭 Also, people still ignore that they still allow the avatar to romance people too old for them. 😭 One cannot call one thing creepy and let the opposite extreme pass. 😭

[@Token-j1n]

The only FE game with questionable localisation is Fates and arguably Radiant Dawn. The rest may have bad instances, but they're overall done well. Weebs have just made hyperbolic descriptions of any differences and forced different interpretations for their narrative.

[@charlesjung7340]

@d6lw1cm2l Louis in JP Engage is a Himedanshi, guy that really likes yuri, but in EN he's just a people watcher. Dialogue between Goldmary and Etie have them discuss the type of woman that men where into, which was entirely replaced with discussing if doing neat laundry helped fight undead, Goldmary has instances of her liking the attention men give her being removed, it's not hyperbole. In awakening Henry's backstory is messed up, he is neglected not abandoned by his parents, he was sent to an institution not a magic camp, Fate is obvious

[@amazingrat7997]

I never understood how people get so defensive over the dilemma of faithful localizations, you’d think that as toxic as other fan bases are when it comes to censoring or altering original properties, the same thing would apply for video games. 6:55 is a good summation of my thoughts.

[@Token-j1n]

Because localisation means changing things to be more culturally relevant or appropriate. And the majority of localisations are faithful in that the message/meaning is conveyed successfully. Some differences in wording doesn't mean bad localization.

[@dwainsimmons3447]

Past Localizers: "we are restricted by the TV networks because back then there was no such thing as a website on the internet that made it easier to control what you watch" Present Localizer: "we just want to force our narrative because we think you're dumb and stupid."

[@bleedingberryjuice]

PREACH!! I'm at the point that I don't buy Japanese localized media anymore without a thorough investigation and I'm studying Japanese at least an hour a day. When I have the time to sink into it, I'm going to buy an older model of switch capable of being modded, play the retranslation mod of Engage, and still buy a Japanese copy so that I am supporting the DEVS not the localizers who hate the customer. Will my lack of $60 bankrupt localizers? Obviously not but if enough people stand up to this, money talks, and eventually things will have to change and in the event that they don't at least I'll be able to play in the original language.

[@belstar1128]

Yea i am always playing in the original language when possible so i don't even need to boycott the games. but there are cases in older games and rare cases in new games where they don't let you switch languages. since you have a unique western copy. these versions only let you pick from a few random European languages like French.

[@baitsadasuto]

there's so many cases of bad localization that just gets a pass because the media is iconic. Digimon is probably the greatest example of this, the English speaking fans still to this day defend the utter shit they were served 20+ years ago.

[@belstar1128]

Well the Digimon fans all first watched it when they where like 5 .so the nostalgia is too powerful. you know what was a bummer for me is that i live in Europe but we got the Americanised versions of anime despite us not being American. so they may as well just released anime in Japanese with Dutch subtitles instead of English with Dutch subtitles and it would have still been successful.

[@baitsadasuto]

@@belstar1128 In Finland we had a notoriously bad dub for the first 25 episodes (thankfully they atleast kept the jpn names) and i do feel a good amount of nostalgia towards it but can acknowledge that the original japanese is way better. It's one thing to have nostalgia for something, it's another thing entirely to claim that the fucking digirap is better than Brave Heart. Honestly the amount of damage the English dub did to Digimon is kinda wild, it butchered everything the series is praised for (Characters, tone, music)

[@pedronobre8755]

I speak some Japanese, but don't play videogames. To me this issue is fascinating. Why did the game industry felt the need to move so far from standard * translation *, like we've had in novels for centuries now, to come up with a new concept, localization, and disregard the original creators? How come no one thinks changing a writer's words in a novel is acceptable, but tolerate it in videogames?

[@Ackermin]

That is the age-old question isn’t it? Imagine if people localized textbooks or legal documents to the degree they localize video games. It would be absolute chaos.

[@NoraNoita]

I don't like Localized games, so you're right. Jokes aside, this was a very well put together video and I can just wholeheartedly agree with the things said, discourse should not be about whether a line is translated correctly it should be about all the things a game makes, the corny lines of the original creators, the world they build, the combat, the character etc, but as you said, I can't even think about wanting to get into the Fire Emblem series because I can't trust that my experience with the game is even what the developers and creators intended me to have. I first have to learn Japanese and then I'm allowed to truly experience the game how it's meant to be, which should not be how things work, this is not why the publishers try to enlist the help of people getting the game from Japanese into different languages, it's wrong how it is right now and this really needs to change. Next month I buy two more Japanese Learning books, with courses I can follow so I can tackle learning Japanese better, just having some text book and writing exercise books isn't enough for me. I do like to look at Japanese texts literally, and word by word, and if you just read them out in german or english, they still make sense, albeit sounding like more of a medieval or archaic way of saying the same sentences in modern tongue. So saying it's too complex is wrong and even word plays can be translated just fine with translator notes or writing the word in Romaji with what the character thinks the person said in (brackets) and what was said as well the same way, that's just one solution to a problem I thought of just now, these people saying it's too complicated don't want to think or don't have the ability to solve problems. As another youtuber Otaku Dai-kun put it: "our best way to fight is to make the creators aware of unfaithful localization changes in their works and tell them we are unhappy with them in a nice way" (I adlibbed a bit, but it was something like that).

[@lpfan4491]

Sometimes it goes to a quite literal degree because of gameplay changes. FE8 in particular basically deserves two playthroughs because the JP and western versions have way diffrent balancing.

[@ACESchultz]

What people who defend bad localization need to understand is this: It’s okay to enjoy overlocalized games and they’re not wrong for enjoying overlocalized games. Nobody is saying that. It’s not a personal attack at all. The counter argument to overlocalization has nothing to do with whether or not you enjoy the content, it has to do with overlocalization being harmful to the gaming industry because it presents an unfaithful product as authentic.

[@Ackermin]

true and real

[@belstar1128]

The localised versions are almost always worse than the original. not saying that means they are bad but just not as good so if you can play the original.

[@anr4139]

5:18 and 7:01 really describe this whole thing perfectly.

[@NarmyHiiragi]

I feel this a lot as an English speaking gamer who only plays games in their original Japanese. Whether it's name changes, memes, etc. there is usually some kind of disconnect between what I experienced and what the rest of the English speaking community is discussing.

[@dudeguy07]

Localizers removing offensive lines and adding PoliCore turned this topic political, so now people defend the localized version because it was translated by "their guys". Also like I said before, localizers most likely use sub-accounts to defend their work.

[@weridplusho]

The 1st half I was thinking about Kingdom Hearts. This dilemma is HUGE over there to the point where there's massive cognitive dissonance of "KH localization fucked up lore and characters for decades" and "localizors good, not at fault". (It probably doesn't help politics is involved; localizors are leftists and those that defend localization are too. Not to mention shipping...) I'm usually sitting there thinking, "it's literally their fault! They've admitted to punching up KH1 because 'Japanese dialogue boring', ffs." Drives me batty. Anyway, 5:30 is a perfect summation of the Crux. I remember back in the day, that fandom used to go feral at learning things were different, they got mad we got a (completely) different product. That they wanted the original, used original names and everything. That was the golden era. I have noticed that pro-localization fans have a slave mentality and seem not care about it as long as they can consume it. Maybe that's the difference. Actual fans don't just consume so they care. Fakes do so to them localization doesn't matter a damn. Excellent video as always.

[@Ackermin]

Thanks! I like that you brought up the increase we’ve seen in fans defending localization as time has gone on. Based on what I’ve seen it’s most likely due to a lot of the major franchises like, Pokémon, Fire Emblem, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, etc. running for as long as they have. The nostalgia for a lot of these series clouds people’s judgement and in some cases even deludes them to the point that they actually think it’s good that games are localized to the degree that they are. I also remember the days where many people absolutely hated seeing any change at all but sadly those days seem to be long gone.

[@weridplusho]

@@Ackermin Nostalgia _definitely_ plays a role. Those blinded by it also have a hard time with any sort of "negativity" despite the fact some of the stuff said would have been the norm 5 to 10 years ago. I was also thinking that long running media have the problem of revolving fans. I've come and go with the Pokemon fandom since the 00s and I noticed a tonal shift (to the point I felt out of place) when I re-entered 2 years ago. And I can't help but feel that the older fans that were "purists" have left/moved on and the "new" fans (both brand new and those that are returning all nostalgia-driven) that are more tolerant of localization have taken their place. I can only hope there's a shift back one day. Newer fans are easier to convince, it's the nostalgia bros that are fucking things up.

[@lpfan4491]

It is especially rough letting go of localizations where they are basically their own branch. Pokemon is "largely the same", but still somehow manages to have wildly diffrent identities across regions. JP and US Sonic are way diffrent, even after they got moved a lot closer in the Dreamcast Era. Yu-gi-oh is absolutely diffrent, where the "dubs" of the anime are mostly completely diffrent shows(thanks, 4Kids), videogames are partially handled seperately and we even have our own "physical cardgame" in the TCG.(Seriously, it's nuts. Imagine if our Pokemon never got the Gen 1-mons, we had some exclusive mons japan didn't get or got way later and Pokemon were not crosscompatible between regions. That is what Yu-gi-oh cards basically are.)

[@weridplusho]

@@lpfan4491 It's sorta weird because outside of Sonic, both Pokemon and YGO overall fandom that _wanted_ to move from localizations to actual translations... back in the 00s and 2010s. I know I was one of them. Something happened in the later 2010s and suddenly the fanbases started to love localizations or preferred it or simply didn't care they were getting a different product. I can't wrap my head around it (and certainly not the fact there's actually a separate TCG, like wtf? xD) At least US Sonic is actually good and shows another side of the character. (At least until post-Adventure screwed it up... But maybe that was due to the comics? idk keeping up with everything Sonic seems tiresome lol)

[@niedlichundlustig4159]

I've never understood why Japanese productions are the only place this bad practice of over-localization is still accepted. Any other language accuracy is prioritized naturally. Japanese is the only one that localizers are allowed to treat other people's work as their own personal writing projects without being fired on the spot

[@belstar1128]

It happens with media from every country .but Japanese stuff is more popular world wide.

[@niedlichundlustig4159]

@@belstar1128 Fair, celebrated is a better word

[@TheZettaiRyouiki]

It happens everywhere. I think our Simpsons dub takes too many liberties, but if I say it out loud people boo me. And not even saying boo-urns!

[@Token-j1n]

This is grossly exaggerated lmao.

[@TheZettaiRyouiki]

As a Dragon Quest fan, I really sympahtize with this video.

[@FourteenthAngel]

Don’t get me started. I love Dragon Quest but the localization team be doing way too much.

[@belstar1128]

Yea i liked the dragon quest games on the ds. i still have my copies and i thought lets play them in Japanese now that i am learning the language. but i am stuck with the English pal versions that don't let you change languages. no wonder i only started learning in the late 2010s it was not as useful and much harder back in my childhood .but with modern games you can just change it into any language supported regardless of region. so the time to learn Japanese is now not 2008 definitely not 1986.

[@belstar1128]

If you only speak 1 language you can get more easily manipulated.

[@Ackermin]

Massively true. I only realized the degree to which I was being lied to once I learned enough Japanese to play a game in its original form.

[@kathleendelcourt8136]

"But I like the localized names/locations/rewrites better". How many times I've heard this argument. What they fail to understand is that it doesn't matter if it's better or worse. It's like going to a foreign restaurant and ask for all your dishes to be cooked and served the way your daily meals are made. You are just robbing yourself of a discovery and showing very little respect to the original work. And when a restaurant does that without your knowledge and you finally get to experience the real thing on trip you realize that you've been cheated. Overlocalization often feels like they thought that we are too stupid, obtuse and stuck in our ways to enjoy something that hasn't been reformated to fit what the localization team thinks of what our cultural background implies in terms tastes. It is both disrespectful of the original product and its authors and awfully patronizing toward the audience. Unfortunately the American audience has been so fed with overly rewrote and "re-americanized" cultural products that a good chunk of it is now having hard time enjoying something that hasn't be remade to fit they comfort zone.

[@jgamb914]

A perfect example of the localization dilemma is on the WrestleMania 1 game by Sega. King Kong Bundy was squaring off against Gorilla Monsoon in the winner takes all semi-finals. It was minutes into the contest when KKB grabbed a hand full of talc from behind the turnbuckle and tossed it in to the eyes of Gorilla Monsoon. Suddenly, G.M started cursing and speaking in Japanese and from that point on the contest took an uninterrupted Japanese course. The background music had an oriental melody and sound and even the background audience voices were in Japanese. This only occurs in this particular match up. This game was version 1.0001a and I assume the issue was addressed in later versions. But as you can see, even at that point back in 1986 localization was introduced into games and in this case they goofed and combined 2 targeted markets.

[@EthnicWeeb]

I've been fighting the censorship/localization war for a number of years now, but one thing I can say for sure - using your Pokémon Red videos as an example - is that I'm a lot more conscious of localized changes in games I took for granted. My interest in owning Japanese copies has increased because of that, and I look forward to playing Pokémon LeafGreen and Diamond when that arrives (even though my Japanese is not as good as it used to be). That aside, I'm glad you made this video. It really puts into perspective the true value of these people's 'support' for a given franchise.

[@Token-j1n]

His Pokemon Red videos are a horrible example lmao. He constantly misinterprets the text of either version to make it seem like it is different, or forces a differing interpretation to say "this is not the same" when it is. He also ignores the text space limit that was confirmed to be a thing by the localizer himself. Also, there's his habit of being extremely nitpicky with slight differences and exaggerating them greatly. Occasionally he has legit criticisms, but more often than not, they're absolute hyperbole and he deliberately misinterprets the dialogue.

[@pinballforlife7948]

Pretty good video. Personally I think that if the people who decide to become judge Judy and executioner for "problematic" elements of Japanese or foreign media really want to tackle those elements then allowing consumers to read the faithful translation and make the decision themselves to play it or ignore would be the best thing for everyone

[@silverwolves2012]

Chad vid made by chad animal crossing dog, keep speaking up its always frustrating to see a majority yell over us thats its not a big deal, but the louder we get the more Nintendo will have to see that this is a issue.

[@belstar1128]

We got to learn Japanese and other languages you will always have this problem.

[@Ackermin]

Yeah the sad part is I don’t really see companies and localizers changing the way they do things any time soon so the problem will most likely persist even if the solution is pretty simple. Learning other languages is definitely the best way to avoid this whole situation if you’re just a singular fan.

[@fuwafuwa271]

Thanks for putting out another great video! And what game is onscreen in the first half of the video if you don't mind me asking?

[@Ackermin]

Thanks! It’s an N64 game called WinBack. It’s on the switch online service if you have that.

[@fuwafuwa271]

@@Ackermin Thanks for responding!

[@17th_Colossus]

I’d like to hear your opinion on Final Fantasy XIV’s localization, as people claim that it is “localization done right.” Which to me, is just faithful translation, but that is far from what ffxiv’s localization is. However, I have a sneaky suspicion that when people defend ffxiv’s localization (or even praise it) it’s simply because ffxiv fans have a reputation for shooting down any criticism of the game no matter what it is. But what’s your opinion, if you don’t mind me asking? In regards to most localization, I’ve just decided to learn Japanese to get around garbage localizers and their attempts at rewriting works that are not theirs. I’ve got the time, and its been honestly quite fun and rewarding thus far (even if I still have a long way to go).

[@Ackermin]

I haven’t played FFXIV in a while so don’t take this as gospel but from what I can remember the localization is pretty much on par with the standard of over-localization. There’s changed names, altered dialogue, so on and so forth. If I had to guess why people choose to defend this game in particular when it comes to localization I’d say it’s a combination of the point you brought up about fans generally being overprotective of FFXIV as well as fans latching onto a few examples of good localization that are very obvious even to English-only speakers like a few unaltered names of main characters.

[@Alex-ot1pl]

I'm glad you brought up Final Fantasy 14, I personally think it's one of the worst examples of English localization, yet it hasn't really been covered or called out much. I know the English players defend it and praise it all the time though which is frustrating with how inaccurate it is, in fact you will always see them on any videos of the Japanese voice acting always claiming English is better for some reason. Just look at Barbariccia as an example and how different she is in English. In Japanese she is bloodthirsty and battle crazy during the fight, and in English she just sounds bored. Honestly the voice acting in English too all kind of sounds the same to me. All kinds of dialogue and even those little speech bubbles from NPCs will be completely changed in English too, I think they don't even try to follow any of the Japanese version and they do their own thing. Maybe you are right about how defensive the playerbase is in general. I don't know French or German at all, but it does seem like those are a bit more faithful to the Japanese version.

[@NoraNoita]

@@Alex-ot1pl I can see about playing FF14 in german for a while to give you some examples if I come across any major differences, currently playing english text and Japanese Voices, I do on occasion hear that there's something else being said than what's written, but I haven't taken the time to cross-reference and compare yet. I think people mostly praise or not praise it from what I heard, but say that it's close enough, because the translation team is in talks with the Japanese team a lot and that's one of the main reasons I hear people go by for saying FF14 translation is good. I can't really give a source for I have not seen a source where that is cited to be the case.

[@belstar1128]

I played that game in Japanese. i don't even know what the English version is like .its just something i don't need to worry about anymore.

[@samufinland5765]

I've been meaning to ask this, but what do you think of the localization of Shovel Knight to Japanese? It's less about changes made in translation as far as I know, but visually changing the game to resemble Famicom games instead of the NES, including having slightly more complex music due to the different sound chip and changing some sprites, mimicking the whole "this is how the game was changed from the original japanese release" thing even though the western release was the original in this case

[@NoraNoita]

this is the first time I hear about this, I'll have to see this for myself now.

[@Ackermin]

Personally I haven’t actually played Shovel Knight but I have read a decent bit about the localization changes yacht club made to the game for the Japanese audience. Based on what they’ve said about the localization it seems they tried their best to not make players feel like they were missing out on something by playing one version versus the other which is admirable. However, in my opinion I don’t really think they accomplished this goal. Making changes to things like sprite art, animation, and sound design means that you’ve changed the game at a fundamental level even if these changes aren’t super significant in the grand scheme of things. Fans will either prefer the original game or the localized Japanese game now because they have these fundamental differences which will lead to the problems I talked about in this video. I do personally think it’s cool that they tried to make the game more famicom-esque for the Japanese audience but if they were going to do that they should at the very least give the English audience a way to experience those changes as well. If they have and I just haven’t heard about it then that’s great.

[@belstar1128]

The famicom and nes where almost like different consoles .the changes Nintendo made where extreme and lets be honest the famicom was better in most ways apart from the av connector and non replaceable controllers. but Nintendo fixed that in a later version of the famicom. this shows just how extreme the localisation was back in the old days and we now live in an age where access to japanese content is much easier .and this makes language learning easier too it was very hard in the 80s compared to now.

[@samufinland5765]

@@Ackermin It seems you can simply switch the game's language to japanese to see the sprite changes and such. I do not know if there is a way to experience the cosmetic changes without changing the language, however. This should also mean you can switch the language to English to experience the original unaltered version if you live in Japan

[@lpfan4491]

@@samufinland5765 That sucks to hear, but I suppose it matches the official implementation of Switch online by Nintendo.(That you have official access to all of their international apps, but you have to live with the presence of the language barrier.)

[@pieguy1098]

Something you didn't bring up here is the dub element to this. I find way more often than not, these kinds of people are playing and experiencing the dubbed versions of media. Which drives a major disconnect when groups on the "faithful" localization side ask for something that is often times entirely incompatible with what they want (or at least unrealistic from a business perspective). This fanbase divide has basically driven me out of the mainstream fan-bases and discussion of many games. I simply cannot relate to these other fans who to me have basically been playing a different game than I did. Character names changes in particular bother me the most.

[@SuperHamachiBrother1]

At the very least it seems the conversation of localization is moving further away from the stupid "Japanese is too complex for accurate translations" BS I got so tired of hearing from people who knew barely anything about the language and were getting brainwashed by people who abuse their knowledge to spread lies to the uninformed fans. I do wonder just how many "fans" of a series would actually lose interest after experiencing more accurate translations. Because I've also noticed how many people praise games like Xenoblade 2 for what localization changed in the script. And then getting grossed out or annoyed at what was in the original version. It's actually a pretty good way of filtering out the fake fans. If only accurate translations were the standard.

[@lpfan4491]

That is why I am personally in support of documenting all available scripts, or at the very least the original in addition to the localized one of your language. Major props to the Xeno Series Wiki for their dedication in data collection, but their chosen style in handling the japanese material sucks to an incredible degree. Wikis in general are lacking in that regard, but it feels like XSW does not even try half the time unless they absolutely *have* to because something does not have a localization.

[@TheCHRILLCAST]

I love the OG Fire Emblem games.

[@jgamb914]

I've noticed lately that I've been suffering from the Localization Dilemma. When playing Zorbots #3 I've noticed when I get to level 6 I encounter a rather strange reaction to my advances by Zorn's caste guards. They lay down their lightning sticks and allow me to proceed to King Zorn's chamber where he is found sitting on his throne and proceeds to hand me his scepter. At this point I feel anxiety as I know I'm not a worthy enough subject to be anointed by Zorn and his princess Brunilda. Is there an alternative path that can lead me out of this Localization Dilemma? Thanks for your help. Love the channel.

[@megakoopa2361]

I think a lot of the backlash with people defending localizations comes from people who simply prefer the English script rewrites and changes. It's a common argument, despite it being a completely different discussion. Even if the English script is objectively better in every way, the discussion isn't "Which script is better" but rather "Did the English version portray the author's intentions as best as they could." I used to be someone who would defend localizations a lot because I liked the English scripts and I was also under the impression that they had the okay from the original writers and genuinely cared for the works they localized. But after learning about stuff like the lore behind the Ghost Stories dub being a complete lie from Steven Foster, Jamie Marchi's attitude towards criticism of her changes for the Dragon Maid dub, JelloApocolypse trashing the LoveCom anime, its original mangaka, lied about how the series was "transphobic," and berated its fans, I eventually lost a lot of my respect for these people. The thing that pushed me over the edge was when the original creator of Dragon Quest was upset over seeing DQIII censored for a Western audience, and not only was this interview removed, but cultist Twitter users who could only loosely be described as "human" started attacking him, because god forbid an artist wants his art to be respected. It really shows to me that people don't actually see video games and by extension anime as art in the same way music, literature, and visual art is.

[@Michael-ep7fp]

The fact that localizers have always gone with the loose path even in the 90s with reports of I believe a Dragon Quest having the original script used as nothing more than an outline really makes me want to learn Japanese. I hate being lied to for all this time.

[@FourteenthAngel]

Dragon Quest's localization is quite frankly all over the place. The games are still good, though that is more due to the quality of the games themselves in not the localization, but they really be doing too much. Not only are proper nouns and spells localized but they shoehorn in corny accents and stereotypes. So many people this all of this with the identity of Dragon Quest but it was all done in localization and isn't present in the original Japanese games.

[@belstar1128]

Yea the 90s where a mess too they made extreme changes to the games. and the dragon quest games didn't even come out in Europe they where only interested in 2 countries really weird. and the great thing nowadays is that you can actually access the Japanese version with ease .back in the 90s you had to do a lot of things you need a bunch of converters for video and power you need a Japanese console maybe a Japanese tv too.

[@TheZettaiRyouiki]

​@@FourteenthAngel Dragon Quest annoys me because in Japan it's known as a series with simple dialog. Meanwhile the localization makes it super confusing with accents and rhymes and haiku and whatnot. It's twice unfaithful.

[@lpfan4491]

There are certainly times when I find an overlocalized thing superior than the original. Would I lose my hair and rip my own arm out if I had to trade them in for more faithful versions? Well, no. Because chances are that even if I would have enjoyed it less, it would not have been the end of the world. If anything, it gets rid of many other issues, like people giving the wrong type of critisism about that piece of media that would be junk to the japanese authors because...that feedback is invalid to them in 99% of cases. And it also gets rid of cases where I have a fundamental misunderstanding of the continuity between games and a sequel does not match the product I originally liked because it was developed with the original product in mind, not the changed one.(As in, can't get mad for the sequel not keeping up with certain established details if...those details literally never existed.)

[@happygol-lucky5938]

I dunno man, those jelly donuts DO look pretty good...

[@maxtubb]

Which is better, Japanese Games or American Games?

[@Ackermin]

I mean, there’s no objective ‘better’ right? I personally prefer Japanese games to western games but that’s just my opinion.

[@maxtubb]

@@Ackermin Same here, there just something special about the Japanese gaming industry I find more appealing than the Western gaming industry. But that's not to say that there are American video games that I do enjoy; Half Life 2 is one of my favorite FPS games of all time and I really enjoy series like Uncharted, Rachet and Clank, Portal 1 & 2, Jak & Daxter Series and so on and so forth.

[@maxtubb]

Also, something that kind of ties into this topic is a dumb comparison people make to one of my favorite video game franchises which is the Yakuza series. People often call it a Japanese GTA, while I have never played any GTA game what so every I do know that certain activities you do in those games are not even similarly to things you do in the Yakuza series, series creator Toshihiro Nagoshi saw at a college expo and I quote "emotionally promotes the idea that killing and committing crimes is fun." And also, the fact that Yakuza is more about the (Japanese) Mafia whereas GTA is more about Gangsters (at least that what people say about the series).

[@alex-dh8zy]

I remember arguing with someone about the localization of bridget in your comments in another video (sorry) and it turned out I was wrong. which is fine since i’d rather have the intent of the artist. Localizing things in such a loose manner has the possibility to undermine the important choices japanese creators are making. And while I think the conversation tends to end up becoming political, I feel the main issue comes from valuing art as something to be consumed and modified to validate your interests, rather than art as a form of communication. While people say video games are art, I feel like people still don’t treat it as art yet which is a shame.

[@radiokunio3738]

About a year ago i was watching a fan sub of the 2004 tetsuswan atom anime and my grandfather glanced at the scene with the strangest look on his face and asked me i was watching a "Japanese version of Astro Boy". Butchered Translation in the long run creates entire false perceptions that can persist in for decades. Panzer Dragoon Saga is a game i love, but the only English translation is butchered with English anachronisms and South Park references, "localized" by a man read dark fantasy novels as his "reference". I really want to play skies of arcadia but the only current English "translation" is made by Joss Whedon wannabes ad-libbing the entire script.

[@nyronarnold6024]

All of this if making me think if this guy likes America at all. ...or, at least, their takes.

[@johnjekyllson28]

You make a point about the consequences of divergent localization, but at the end of the day, the company is going to tone down, punch up, or change the script in localization if they think it will cause them to sell more copies. And how many Japanese devs have you seen on Twitter angry that a lot of Western fans ended up playing an altered game experience?

[@Ackermin]

How does altering the script affect sales? You don’t even see it until you play the game. If that really is the reasoning behind unnecessary localization(which I personally don’t think it is) it doesn’t make much sense. As to your second point there’s a number of things I could say on this like, obviously Japanese devs don’t want to get fired over complaining on Twitter about their own company’s game. In doing so they could also actually affect sales which would mean less money for them and also potentially a firing as well. There’s also the fact that Japanese culture is not the same as western culture. It’s not a normalized practice to openly criticize an employer/affiliate on a Twitter account that’s publicly linked to your actual identity. I could go on forever with this but I really don’t think it’s even that great of a point to begin with. The developers aren’t the audience for a localized game so why should they complain? It’s the fans that should complain and they do. A LOT!

[@lanthelancer]

I would assume most developers don’t care about how their games are changed in foreign markets as long as they sell well, but this isn’t about them it’s about the consumers. If I buy a game I want that game to be faithful to the creator’s original vision, not the vision of some localizer that is trying to sanitize it for greedy or moralistic reasons. Long story short: even if game developers don’t care about the integrity of their games the fans of that game do.

[@talenstout8324]

I’m just here to stop negativity. If it’s for a young audience then it should be censored. Freedom of opinion, it’s a natural right that everyone has. It’s an opinion, it’s not supposed to be factual. Translations are technically canon, it just depends on where you live. But then people don’t understand it. That’s not a solution, it’s not censored, not changed to help the foreign audience understand.

[@TheWolfgangGrimmer]

If it needs to be censored to be appropriate towards a younger audience, then it's not fit FOR a younger audience to begin with. And no, let me be clear on that, anything that runs contradictory to -> the intent of the original author as presented in the work itself < - intrinsically cannot ever, _ever_ be canon in any way shape or form. I also couldn't care less whether the objections aimed at localizers are considered "negativity" or not, I only care that the issues targeted by most of said complaints are demonstrably real.

[@nyronarnold6024]

@@TheWolfgangGrimmer By that logic, all adaptations of anything are bad and not canon, right?

[@TheWolfgangGrimmer]

@@nyronarnold6024 Bad no, not canon yes. By definition only the source material is canon, that's just how it works.