Stop Defending Bad Localization

[@PepsiMan666]

It's sad that this is still so relevant. Never stop fighting for better localization.

[@SymmetricalDocking]

Square Enix sending everyone back here.

[@PepsiMan666]

@SymmetricalDocking they are really bait and switching people. Forget the Tifa stuff. They "removed" the DEI stuff from the site but, in actuality, just changed the wording.

[@YukitoOnline]

Better Translations, No more Localizations.

[@Token-j1n]

I can see what you mean, but I'm just saying, this particular one isn't it. Especially when you know what his idea of "bad" localisation is.

[@CBman11037]

​@@Token-j1nNo it is. I've played the game. I got no idea what you're on about dude

[@AzuriteGaming]

Duped is the right word. Before learning Japanese I was in the camp where I'd just say the localization is great / better than Japanese, I had full faith in localizers doing their jobs. Then I learned the language and realized how you are playing entirely different games with different characters. Localization is never going to get better, if you want to experience the story developers intended, learning Japanese is your only option. Until then all you are ever going to get is a fanfiction english version.

[@Devilsblight86]

The problem is that many on the other side thinks poorly on us thinking these things: 1. They have convinced themselves that many of us don't play any of the games in question, when we do. Even if we show them, they shout "That isn't enough! Show me your play history! If you don't have a certain number of hours playing this game, then you're not a true fan!" 2. They believe that many of us don't even speak Japanese. Even if some of us don't, they don't seem to realize that if we all didn't, then how would we know if something is unfaithful to the Japanese script? Because there are those of us who do speak Japanese and point these flaws out. 3. They believe that we are all the overweight middle-age balding virgin nerd stereotypes like Bubble Bass from SpongeBob. I actually find it humorous when they get mad to learn that not all of us are like that and are very well-adjusted. 4. They think that we're all pedos or coomers because alot of things that get censored in localized Japanese games also have scenes that they consider "coomber-bait" (i.e. sexy costumes, pervy scenes, all that jazz) or lolis and all that. 5. Localizers have convinced them that we are all alt-right. Remember when localizers got mad at Wayforward when they had an option to play River City Girls Zero with a script that was more faithful to the original Japanese script? Many of them said that Wayforward was appealing to "bad people who are part of the alt-right." Not true, many of us are many different cultural background. Shit, I'm Black and while I'm no longer left-leaning, I'm definitely not right-wing either. But now this whole thing went political. Add in with the fact that localizers tend to be friends with game journos, things get even worse. Remember how the original Persona 5 was pretty faithful with the Japanese version of the game and every Persona fan praised it? Game journos (who are pretty racist towards Japan. Look up what that Kotaku editor did when Nintendo decided not to give Kotaku a review copy of Tears of the Kingdom thanks to their Metroid Dread debacle) actually complained about the faithfulness to the script. And they've constantly defended bad localizations and painted the people demanding faithful translations in a bad light and their already thinking that a direct literal translation is somehow "boring" in their pretty much closed off mind. Only way this can end is if these people actually took a look for themselves to see that yes, these localizations are horrible, but that probably won't happened since right now, the programming from localizers and gaming journos who are already pretty hostile against gamers as a whole is too deep.

[@spectraphantom6597]

Too much propaganda on the Western (and particularly US) side of things, all these big companies have way too much connection with most every other field.

[@starvoltnexus3139]

Kingdom Hearts III Has a scene with very very bad localization and it’s one of the most important thing Long story short it made Xehanort seem like an Evil Eraqus What he actually wanted to do was basically destroy all of reality when he couldn’t balance light and darkness like he wanted

[@lpfan4491]

KH has suffered from localization issues since KH2.(the first two games are just as scuffed as they are accuracy-wise, but the issues were less cryptic/contradictory to prior continuity, etc. So I cannot really say they "suffered" from it) The biggest example is actually in RE:coded. Nobody takes it seriously because they decided to go with "hurt" instead of "pain".

[@dood3530]

I appreciate the way you put things at the end of the video. I don't expect everyone to feel as strongly about faithful localization as I do, or go on a big crusade about it. But at the very least, I expect them to stop constantly making excuses for it and actively getting in the way of those of us who do care. I'm yet another person who's been learning Japanese in recent times, partially because I don't expect to see these changes any time soon.

[@jase276]

Considering the lack of quality control in general in the west, specifically America as this is only an English problem so far, I prefer to just not have localization at all and just have the pure translation. Too many hacks get hired into these positions who don't even like Japanese media or culture and in turn make everything fanfiction. I know Japanese and I'm constantly disgusted by the lack of discipline from these localizers. People can just rewrite entire scripts into worse versions and get away with it. Now that Sony is trying to take control of basically all Japanese media in the West and sterilize it I'm even more against localization now more than ever. I don't see why western politics and slang should be shoehorned into Japanese media. The problem is these people can't write and have no talent, so they try to leech off of the nearest thing that's made by actually talented people. And since the creators are all the way in Japan they figure they can just get away with it and develop some form of God complex. It's sickening.

[@NoraNoita]

Not really just an "english problem", because some countries use the english as base for their translation, so it's a cascading problem.

[@Miyakolover]

The issue is they have supporters of anti-Japanese libtards (not to be confused with actual liberals) defending these practices and trying to excuse it with BS like "Japanese games have politics too!!" and "They improved the dull script!!!" and all kinds of lies.

[@lpfan4491]

Germany had its own issue with anime and videogames that ruined many, many IPs. The good part is that in the last few years, we have been breaking away from it piece by piece.(Of course, these issues are not counting stuff like localizing preexisting rewrites like 4Kids-Yugioh or the standard english localization, because we aren't inaccurate in that regard.)

[@Hambs23]

@@lpfan4491 I was watching a video about the animes that aired on both the US' and Latin American countries' TV in the early 2000s. I grew up in Brazil, and sometimes we would get a redub of an American version of a show (like Funimation or 4Kids), and sometimes we would get a completely faithful dub from scratch. The difference in quality and content from the redubs and the faithful dubs was outstanding. Although many 4Kids shows were very popular due to their merchandise tie-ins (like Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh), the faithful ones had much more interesting plot lines and til this day there are still fans who fondly remember many of the characters and scenes. Over the years people grew tired of the redubs, but most still enjoy the faithful ones. DBZ vs Saint Seiya was a legit thing for some time because of how equally good those two shows were (tho DBZ was still more popular because the power levels were more extreme).

[@21minute]

This reminds me of the meltdown that happened when a Solo Leveling anime was announced. They changed the main character's name, race, and will delete this big story arc that was basically a battle between Japan and Korea. The Solo Leveling fans complained the heck out of it while the general anime fans defend it with "shut up it's just localization."

[@Miyakolover]

I wouldn't defend it...but I'd say that since it changed that drastically from the source material...then it shouldn't be considered the same product at that point. But to be fair for the Japanese studio I'd say that atleast the anime will be their actual work that is "adapted" from a written source material...it's not like a finished product that they're actively re-writing and censoring...but more like making their own version of it.

[@NoraNoita]

The reason at 3:00 is exactly how I feel about this. And yeah when you're a kid you didn't know anything about Localization, and unless someone tells you later and removes the veil from in front of your Eyes. Some people are just blissfully ignorant and took the (insert the matrix pill that makes them believe everything is correct and fine here), but also seem to be patriotic with the localization team and defend them unreasonably, which is just insane to me.

[@niedlichundlustig4159]

I always find the statement from localizers and their defenders that you'll understand their choices as you learn japanese to be really funny. As you learn japanese you can hear and spot every dumb change made with greater ease and from experience no the changes don't make more sense, they are more infuriating knowing what the original was. It should also be a red flag that localizers are more concerned with THEIR creative freedom rather than the creative freedom and choices of the artists and writers who entrust their hard work to them.

[@Miyakolover]

They are more than fine with stealing the original writer's work and changing it to make it their own...but when the River City collection was released containing an option for a more literal translation along with a localized translation...they all started crying over their "creative freedoms"....the irony is just stunning.

[@Miyakolover]

@@slopernafti902 Then "Mr. Native Japanese" speaker...stop dodging my question about this image on the other thread and tell me how does the Japanese text translate to that line about "pulling head out of one's ass"? i.imgur.com/mqn6J5H.png Or is your speciality is just saying lmao line an NPC?

[@shiprek900]

I generally much, much prefer when localizations try to stick as close to the original as possible. I can accept jokes, names, or statements that don’t translate well being adjusted to better suit the target location no problem. But if there’s going to be any sort of significant change, like switching out an entire line of dialogue or recharacterizing one of the characters, I firmly believe it should only ever be done with the direct approval of the original team because *they* feel it does not fit the target location for one reason or another. Significant creative changes like that should never be left in the hands of another party because it always leads to things being needlessly messy or totally unrecognizable from what they were originally intended to be

[@DeeeFoo]

I think nowadays, a lot of localization teams actually work very closely with the original creative team and will run most major changes by them first. It didn't used to be that way, but since everything is more global now, they're starting to adopt this approach.

[@_Pikahiiri_]

Sadly I know several people (including people who moved to japan) that would prefer the right version. They say things like "Localizing things means you're getting a closer experience to what a japanese gamer would get, as even names or cultural aspects don't have the same impact on you as they would a JP person so they should be changed to fit things a non-japanese person would relate to more." I prefer more faithful translation, however in order to combat bad localization, we need to listen to what the other side considers important when making changes or it'll mean we talk past each other.

[@ImportedCheese]

I'm SICK of reading all this FANFICTION - WHERE IS THE FAITHFUL 1:1 TRANSLATION

[@Tsiri]

I've seen a lot of localization replace gender-referencing sentences lately. Simple things like "It's a man's duty to-" or "A woman shouldn't be out here at night" all get reduced to some gender-neutral phrase so as not to offend the perpetually offended.

[@jahrfuhlnehm]

@kollie79 Why do the localizers unnecessarily change such things in the first place? To "own the chuds"? If so they should be fired for rewriting something out of ill intent. Are there such people so offended by gender acknowledgement they have to erase it? Must be since that's what they're going out of their way to do. In that instance they probably should be fired too or be more strictly supervised to stop going off-script to make sure the sensibilities of a few insane people don't get inflamed. Translators aren't supposed to be moral guardians or censors, they're there to TRANSLATE a script. If they hate the script so badly then they shouldn't be doing this work to begin with.

[@Smugplayer]

@kollie79 I think that's unfair to imply that people who want a game translated properly, even in this context, somehow means they are opposed to the newfound social advances of gender awareness, if that's what you're getting at.

[@Miyakolover]

@kollie79 And we're in the wrong because we want an accurate representation of the real product and not a fanfiction by the localizer? You see...we wouldn't care if there was a "woke" character in an anime/JRPG if they were part of the script...what we hate is having characters dialouge change to something that is "politically correct" as if the said characters have to conform with woke sensibilities.

[@toki_madoushi]

Great content! I think the biggest issue with the abundance of liberty in the localization world is mainly because the vast majority of the audience won't even realized that changes were made to the original product. Because, well... they will only experience the localized product that they got. Unless there's a lot of really bad changes or obvious ones, it's pretty much impossible for the peoples to know if it's a good localization or not. Hence the lack of pressure on localization teams to stick as close as possible to the original script. I'm also trying to bring awareness to this issue but in the Anime world, because this is also a big conflict that is happening very often. A lot of "translations", or I should rather say localizations, often have a lot of questionable changes that can sometimes seems to push a certain agenda... But a lot of Anime watcher doesn't care and even prefer watching them in the English dub, and if someone points out that there's some discrepancies, they often get on the defensive and even argue that the localization is better. I'm not saying that it's impossible to have a good localized dub, but it's already a big challenge to translate a script from Japanese to English, but when on top of that you add the need for the voiced lines to fit with the character's lips moving, etc. it becomes near impossible to not lose any meaning. In my opinion, all media should be consumed as close as the original product as possible to really experience what the original concept was. I perfectly understand that no one should be expected to learn a completely new language to experience a media in its original language, but I'm always confused when people says that they don't care and would choose a localization that makes big changes over one that tries to stick as close as possible to the original language and culture. I won't put too much hope that in the near future the localization teams will become more strict, but I hope that at least the consumers are gonna be more aware of the issues, to then put more pressure on the localizations. And your video helps with that! Thanks!

[@Miyakolover]

I always tell these people "If you think the localization is better, then you simply don't care for the actual product you are consuming...you want it to be "Culturally appropriated" for your narrow minded western views". I am not a westerner and I don't live in the west (I am not anti west or anything)...but I find it annoying that some westerner is trying so hard to force their own agenda/memes onto me when I actively chose to consume a Japanese product over a western one.

[@lpfan4491]

@@Miyakolover Tbh, there are valid reasons to prefer changed localizations. The issue arises when people not only defend changes that poorly reflect on the quality of the product, but also actively condemn people wanting more accurate stuff as localization-haters and weeabos, because doing so is both disrespectful to people they are clowning on and the original writers.(Because "people are annoying for simply wanting the original represented better" = "Your original script is not worth telling, nobody should want it.")

[@Miyakolover]

@@lpfan4491 I am not following your logic here...are you telling me that bad localizations are valid because people who want an authentic localization will get called "weebs"?

[@lpfan4491]

@@Miyakolover No? Idk how one could take that away from my reply. I am saying that the real issue are people who claim that the changed version is the only correct way to the point of passively insulting the original work.

[@Miyakolover]

@@lpfan4491 Ah, I see what you mean now. Yeah it is BS...those who call us "weebs" are themselves just haters of Japanese media that just want it to be "Westernized" because of superiority complex. Once I read a comment on reddit of some idiot claiming "The only reason Metal Gear Solid games succeeded was because of the localizers fixing Kojima's bad writing" (Even though Kojima is very hands on when it comes to the Japanese script of MGS)...I kid you not.

[@JomasterTheSecond]

I don't know why but part of me wants to blame a lot of this stuff on Working Designs for popularising the carte-blanche localisation of games.

[@jing2997]

It's great to hear some one that understand. Like you mentioned I love the Xenoblade series, but the localization It's horrible, and other rpg are suffering from this type of localization too. I am learning Japanese to stop supporting bad localization and enjoy Japanese media the way its intended. I wish more people understand this

[@skylandersfan6954]

No way you think Xenoblade localisation is bad lmao, compare the names of Chapter 7 of 2 in English and Japanese and its no contest

[@ACESchultz]

I bet that a lot of localizers try to get into that field to be able to be involved in video game writing and/or development and want to feel like they have had a hand in shaping the game. But the issue is that’s not the job they’re hired to do, at least it shouldn’t be. If they want to shape the way a game is made, they should get into development or actual script writing.

[@akaiaokakesu]

You pretty much mirrored my exact experience when I learned about localizations as I grew older. The modern internet quite literally made me feel "duped". I am almost certain that when casual consumers buy a Japanese product, people who may not be as involved in Japanese media as us, the vast majority of them are going to be none the wiser and expect an accurate translation. If that wasn't the case, people wouldn't have dialogue such as "why do the Japanese X, and why do the Japanese Y". Most people are going to say "Wow, I love the Japanese writer for Z" and not "Wow, I love the localization editor for Z, I hope they write for more media they didn't actually make". People don't care about the localization team, unless the team did REALLY bad. Because when people consume Japanese products, they have the assumption that they are having... a foreign experience; an exotic experience; a Japanese experience, whether or not they truly are.

[@Miyakolover]

I kinda agree...it just makes you feel stupid for being duped by these localizers....and they somehow think that fooling poeple is a "Gotcha moment" or something.

[@DeeeFoo]

Interesting video! Linguistics is fascinating, and I'd say that I would gravitate towards localization as opposed to a direct translation. I was hoping you would give some more specific examples of what you consider to be bad vs good localization.

[@jahrfuhlnehm]

Some good examples of bad (in this case lazy) localization/translation is when they just decide to leave things out completely. In Breath of the Wild in Japan Link had a diary that offered his thoughts on various things, excised in English and with just a basic quest log. Going much further back, Dragon Quest IV, DS version, had idle party banter when moving around the map in Japanese that is completely absent in North America. And characters who spoke normally were given these godawful, unreadable and goofy stereotypes for accents for their dialogue. A screenshot I saw showing the difference between the NES version, the Japanese DS version and the American DS version, in the latter most a king has lines written out like terrible Scottish dialect that makes Mike Myers' seem authentic. Remember Working Designs? They were infamous for awful localizations back in the day that would be rewrites full of goofy crap, and outdated pop culture and contemporary topic references (Bill Clinton jokes, Austin Powers to refer back to Mike Myers again). I hold Victor Ireland responsible for the influx of creative writing rejects taking up localization jobs and doing terrible work today.

[@lpfan4491]

Working designs is genuinely fascinating. Sometimes, their changes were a decent idea that just went really, really wrong(or right in 1% of cases). And then there is the time where they made one or two games nigh unbeatable with the enemy stat increases and had the absolute nuts to lie to their customerbase that "it was a bug, we swear!"

[@lpfan4491]

@@slopernafti902 It is not written in second person tho, it is written in no set perspective to begin with, which can lead to either being correct. The interpretation of it being Link's writing is based on details in the texts they cut in localization.(And that the menu-page for rewatching memories is written in third person, which they probably would have just written the entire log like that if it was only meant to be a 4th wall break for the player.)

[@jahrfuhlnehm]

@@lpfan4491 I have read about this being a thing with Silhouette Mirage when they released it in the west for the PS1. Don't remember everything they did, I think prices for items were jacked way up from the original JP Saturn version, enemies might've been spongier, but I don't know, the thing with items is the one I remember for certain. I didn't find out about this until many years after I had gotten and played the game back in the day. I remember, not possibly being able to know anything about what tamperings went on, enjoying the game well enough (it never reached say Bayou Billy levels of idiotic difficulty overload as far as JP -> West transitions went at least, now that's a game where the NA version is borderline unplayable). Got decently far but never beat it I ran into a wall where the game autosaved me at a point I couldn't reverse, not that I could figure out, but left me in front of a boss fight with my HP bar almost gone. It was just me dying to the boss repeatedly and nothing changing because I never exactly was one to partake in "no-hit runs" - not nowadays, especially not as a kid. So I gave up. But still there was a lot to like. I'll have to try it again on a Saturn emulator one of these days.

[@avibi]

The fact that Xenoblade 2, one of my favourite games ever, was changed in localisation and I don't know the extent to which that is the case has been gnawing at me since I was first made aware of the existence of such changes. I knew for example that the Xenogears translation was far from perfect, but I don't believe Richard Honeywood did it out of ill will, his was an insurmountable task. Most of those mistakes are well documented, let's hope the same ends up happening for Xenoblade 2 as well. Otherwise, I guess I'll just have to study up.

[@skylandersfan6954]

Most of the changes in 2 were good changes so its fine tbh

[@doniarts]

@@skylandersfan6954 Weird way to lie.

[@skylandersfan6954]

@@doniarts In what is what I said a lie? Pray tell

[@doniarts]

@@skylandersfan6954 Most of the changes being good when Majority of those most were bad in the context of lore and even names.

[@skylandersfan6954]

@@doniarts Except the lore is still consistent and the same as in Japan so thats not true, and the names more or less mean the same thing

[@FerLopez5]

The simple fact that localizers now seek to region lock the localization into Japan, so the consumer can't have access to original content, speaks volumes about their character, intentions and motivation

[@MediaJunkie86]

thank you for this well thought out and well spoken video.

[@davidscottheath]

Great video! I'm far from fluent but I switched to playing games exclusively in Japanese after getting frustrated with translators taking too many creative liberties and I'm never going back. Great way to learn the language too!

[@Hambs23]

I used to have a vendetta against dubs in general when I first started to notice the changes in localizations. Basically I blamed the voice actors' bad performance being the reason behind these changes. Now I know that they aren't (always) at fault. It's funny, cuz not matter how far back you go, you still find bad localizations all over the video game history, with many different reasons as to why over the decade. And I know people want to make it political since a lof of the changes we see nowadays are made by extreme left-wing agendas, but forget that in the past it was mostly extreme-right wing groups spewing obnoxious censorship and changes all over different products. So, no, I don't think it's a political issue, it's simply bad professionals. I remember reading an interview from an old-timer localizer reflecting back on his first jobs during the PS1 era, and how easy and fun it was to change parts of the script, and how no one at the team criticized his actions. But when the fans started to complain about these changes, he immediately changed his stance to treat his job more seriously and the players were overall more happy. He said that it's highly unprofessional, but typical of newcomers to do these kinds of things, and they need to take the criticism to heart.

[@Jet_Lunar]

This point, it's a motivation to learn Japanese to understand the original intent.

[@shadowsquid1351]

Just discovered your channel & I totally agree with what you said here! I only discovered the bullshit some of the localizers/translators do to games in the last few years, what bothers me the most is the disrespect towards the creators of the work + the injection of personal/political ideologies when it's not in the original Japanese script at all! 1 of the most important rules in translation/localization is to keep the integrity of the source mataerial no matter how it "offends" you or disagrees with your beliefs. I think even today videogames is still looked down upon & that's why those so called localizers can get away with their bullshit or their disrespect of the source material & sometimes admit that they made the writing/story "better" & the Japanese need to get progressive or get with the times, it's unprofessional & reeks of perceived superiority. I only know a little Japanese & I was shocked when even a huge important game like LoZ: BotW has changed many things in the English version, like how they took out Link writing his own feelings/ideas in the journal & instead they wrote it in 3rd person thus taking out any sort of personality & development Link had! Another example is in Fire Emblem Fates & 3 Houses, another is Triangle Strategy, LiveAlive.. the examples are many & I was angry about how these people were freely putting in & taking out anything they wanted, injecting personal politics into lots of Japanese games! I'm not from the west & I don't want games from any other country to be forced to align with radical political agenda translating any form of entertainment lol ot reeks of imperialistic ideologies. I started following Twitter accounts & even KZbin accounts that talk about these problems in the localization, I understand that there's nuance to some of this problem but not all of it. What gets me is the the kind of pos who would always say to anyone pointing out bad/unfaithful translations: "so you want google translation", which is bullshit but they use it to derail the conversation. The only way to stop this crap is for users to point out all the bad/unfaithful changes by these companies, speak out & let our voices be heard, money speaks & if users started making big noise the companies will have to accept their mistakes & be more faithful to the og script as to not cause a large group of potential buyers steer away from buying their games, it might be a slow process but it's much better than nothing.

[@ailcross]

Thank you for clearly stating what many of us have had issues with for a long time. This is as clear as it gets. This is the exact reason I started learning japanese.

[@MiYakuT]

I am trying my best to provide Uncensored Translations 😊 I also hate this Censorship War too.

[@mysmallnoman]

Same thing can also be said about censorship, we SHOULDN'T defend censorship Imagine believing in the freedom of speech/expression and then celebrating censorship, Twitter is sure a clown world Anyway, great video!!

[@TrueLucinova]

I'm actually a little curious about your comments on Pokemon; the extent of my localization knowledge would largely just be about names and their meanings (I don't actually know Japanese, but I still look into name origins) Do you mean to say that the dialogue and stories are being altered? Or is it something closer to characterization that takes a hit? Even if it's something else that I'm not considering, I'm just curious to hear more really

[@Ackermin]

I have a whole series on this channel where I talk about exactly that. It’s called “A localization Journey Through Pokémon Red” and there are 6 parts so far. Like you mentioned most people seem to focus on the name changes but there’s so much more than that. The dialogue in particular saw a massive amount of change throughout the game to the point where it’s hard to say you’re even talking to the same person across regions in many cases. This has implications in everything from characterization to the overall consistency of the localization. It’s really a sad state of affairs. I haven’t made videos on the later games yet but based on my experience playing many of them in Japanese they also largely suffered this fate.

[@Epsidawn]

I actually hope to be one of those people learning japanese so I can read a game's text that never got translated. Any sites, apps, or podcasts you recommend to get started?

[@Ackermin]

First thing would be to learn hiragana/katakana which can be done anywhere really just google something like “learn hiragana/katakana” or “kana chart” and you should be fine. If you don’t learn to write them and just read them it should only take a few weeks at most. After that you’ll probably want to use some kind of flash card site/app to learn as much kanji/terms as possible. I used one called wanikani but there are a bunch more like Anki that people use. Once you get a good amount of kanji and words down it’s all about real reading/listening/speech practice which you can just do on your own by interacting with Japanese content/people(if you can). I simplified it down a lot but that’s the basic path you’re likely to take. Hope the learning goes well.

[@Epsidawn]

@@Ackermin Thanks a bunch!!!! And that's encouraging to know that actually reading it won't take up too much time. Very excited to get started!!!!

[@Tanman77777]

As a Xenoblade fan, I’ve never actually heard people mention the localization of those games being bad. Pretty much the only thing I’ve heard complained about is some character customization options being removed from X (but people hardly talk about X). Otherwise I usually hear other people/fans praising the games’ localization (outside of 2’s voice acting). I’m curious about what complaints people have with it

[@Kaiserin]

Likewise! I've never really seen people criticise Xenoblade's.

[@Yoshiedude]

There is more localization in the pre xenoblade games of Xenogears and Xenosaga. But most drastic changes meant weather or not the game can be sold outside of japan or not. Or at least stick with a T rating instead of a M rating.

[@alarii2582]

If you can understand even just a dozen or so Japanese words you can hear just how much the dialogue was changed if you change the games audio language to Japanese

[@Kaiserin]

@@alarii2582 I don’t speak Japanese. Only German, English, and Polish.

[@alarii2582]

@@Kaiserin What I was trying to say is that from my understanding only the general story stayed the same but most dialogue got changed completely in the english localization.

[@SuperHamachiBrother1]

As a Sonic and Xenoblade (hell, I might as well just say nintendo series in general lmao) fan this video is extremely validating. I'm not brave enough to publicly voice my complaints, but I'll continue support the good fight for fellow localization critics.

[@skylandersfan6954]

Xenoblade has good localisation so I dont see why youd say this lol

[@SinclairLocke]

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was the guilty gear strive's english localization claiming that Bridget, the most iconic video game femboy/crossdresser, was actually trans. I'm learning japanese now because there's just no way I can ever trust localizers after that.

[@alex-dh8zy]

it's really annoying since people will take a single line out of context from the original work (the "i'm a girl" line) as evidence that the translation is 100% faithful and that bridget is a girl while ignoring all the evidence that points to bridget being otherwise, including the big new crossdresser symbol on his habit. The original game and japanese site description never mention anything about trans identity and use male pronouns. It's also weird to suggest that they're completely faithful when you look at the directing for the voice acting and a lot of other aspects of the translation. Like happy chaos is a completely different character personality wise and the choice of performance from the testament va is weird imo (when put alongside the jp va). I'd at least be more accepting of people coming to the conclusion that bridget was trans if was like the original work, instead of the translators forcing their own interpretation onto the audience😬. but it just makes way more sense to me with bridget's previous resentment of looking like a girl and the overall thematics of strive that he's come to accept both aspects of his identity.

[@SinclairLocke]

@@alex-dh8zy This. Specially since the own developers still classify him as a guy everywhere. Like, they never actually said he's a woman or trans, it's all westerners trying to put words in their mouth.

[@alex-dh8zy]

@kollie79 personally I haven’t seen it, but i’m fine if it exists even if I don’t agree with the interpretation. I don’t know how well my opinion comes off in the first comment, but I would be ok with people thinking the character is trans even if I don’t agree with it if people weren’t specifically leaning onto the localization as gospel and trying to force others into that viewpoint using the localization as a basis. I can see where people would reach that conclusion through the work itself and it’s nice that people can relate to that journey, I just don’t like that people are using the localization as gospel to turn down other opinions rather than the game itself which is why I push back against it. I know there would still be arguments about it even if the localization was the same as the original, but it’s annoying that it has become the main crux of the divide.

[@alex-dh8zy]

@kollie79 no like I know that a lot of people use it as an excuse to be transphobic etc. and would continue to not be accepting, which is why I said the last sentence. Like I don't think the fake email was right alongside the fake arcsystems tumblr telling people that bridget was a girl. If you read the character bios in game the pronouns have been changed. I do think it is wrong to not take into account the culture of the original art when interpreting meaning. Pokemon emerald makes way more sense in this context for instance. like I can see why you would call it goalposting and getting aggressive since it's hard to find nuanced arguments but what i'm saying is that it doesn't help that a lot of it is obscured under a layer of translation fuckery because there are a lot of people who don't speak japanese. so it's become a major point of debate.

[@alex-dh8zy]

@kollie79 like alright dude, like I was being nice but you just won't stop. bridget's entire story in strive is basically gold lewis misgendering bridget. then in the flawed ending bridget just accepts that she's a girl. it's mainly the difference in voice direction from defeatist in the jp, to hopeful in the us version that gives the impression that it's supposed to be this big moment of change/revelation for him. In the flawless ending after the last fight he learns from kai not to let society choose who he is and to be honest to himself, which in tandem with the flawed ending puts a different picture on things in general. the symbol on his habit is also a symbol used for androgyny ⚦ while trans people tend to use ⚧. Jeez this whole focus on gender is really interesting with the context of gears in the series and how they strip you of concepts including gender? It's like if it was trying to say something nuanced. It's really interesting how daisuke in an interview said that his goal with testament went from representing both genders to trying to represent the ambiguity of no gender. Isn't that interesting with the androgyny symbol? Huh, there seems to be a lot of characters learning to accept the contradictions of their existence in strive and the beauty of. it's like the entire point of the game is talking about trying to break beyond boolean concepts rather then rejection of one half or the other. I can see where people get the trans reading, I can see how people relate to his struggle with not being able to pass etc.. but there's a lot more evidence that points to him being a guy then a girl to me personally or something inbetween (which is my belief). it just comes off as pretty tone deaf to me that people aren't willing to take into account bridget's place within japan's lgbt culture itself which feels like a pretty colonizer move or the idea that other ways of expressing yourself exist. Like IF PEOPLE WANT TO BELIEVE THAT HE'S TRANS IT'S FINE, but i'm tired of people using the bio schism and one line out of context when people should be fine in letting other people have their own interpretations? Like why is it so difficult atm? It's because there is such a big precedent atm for people doing a haphazard job at "translating" and erasing lgbt identities that don't fit with their own viewpoint like the seven seas ordeal, or bad dubs that don't capture the characters at all. Happy chaos went from a philosopher, to le joker but people are ok with it because awe man dude school days is so funny haha lol. but jeez I wonder if there was some sort of artistic intent with happy chaos's calm demeanor compared to his wacky output? (Drift). Like it's not even enough for me to say that I respect other people's readings of a creator's work, you have to force it onto others. Don't you see how fucking stupid that is? Don't you think that connects to the whole problem that people have been having with localization and dubs for years? Like yea of course it's a big part of the issue. It's like 50% of the issue. we can't even begin to debate about these things when basically most people aren't experiencing the same experience the artist intended. jeez it's like localizer and colonizer rhyme or something.

[@dudeguy07]

"Localization" now is just a word used to excuse everything bad in translation. [Trying to stand out as a translator, poor language skills, cheep quick translations, censorship, adding lefty ideology] Game localization is irredeemable in my opinion I won't stop complaining about it though

[@dood3530]

The way I see it, praising localizations for being “better” than the original is sort of like praising your dentist for secretly giving you heart surgery. It's not about how good they are; it's about the fact that that's not their job. Maybe some dentists will happen to be good at it, but some definitely won't, and you'll have no way of knowing until the damage is done. I'd rather rest easy knowing that my dentist will only ever do the operations that are within their capacity AS a dentist.

[@Miyakolover]

This whole thing about "Improving" the script is still a sh*tty practice because it totally disregards the writer's original intent with their characters and the interactions that happen between characters. If for example I had a character that is meant to be cold and "dull" in their approach for story reasons related to their backstory...it's not the localizer's job to add in more dialogue or make it "more quirky"....at this point it just becomes fanfiction unrelated to the source material...and "Fanfiction" is pretty much purely subjective...just because someone will find the changes "better" doesn't mean it actually is...in the end, I'd argue that character creators know them better than anyone.

[@GalacticGfriend]

This is exactly why I have my Nintendo Switch console set to Korean and not English.

[@davidtg803]

You gotta be the most underrated KZbinr

[@EzGrimzz]

translation > localization

[@Token-j1n]

That will result in many aspects of the source language being lost completely. Much more than could possibly be lost in localisation lmao.

[@LIGHTANGEL_EX]

@@Token-j1nwrong.

[@xana3961]

@@Token-j1n This is what a translation note is for

[@Token-j1n]

​@@xana3961 Nobody aside from weebs care about those notes and don't want to read it when consuming media.

[@FreelanceGenie]

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that you should be too strict when it comes to avoiding making changes from Japanese. I agree that you should absolutely avoid censorship, but in some cases things just don't come across the same way in English as they do in Japanese, or the same way to English speakers as they do to Japanese speakers. If the goal of the localization team is to give the target audience the same, or as close to the same experience as the original audience gets then I can understand it. That doesn't mean I think it's okay to say "if this offends a certain audience we should change it" though. In fact, if I feel like something has been censored it's often enough to keep me from buying it at all. I haven't even played Xenoblade 2 or 3 because I somewhat perceive the lack of cosmetic armor changes as a sort of pre-emptive censorship after what happened with X, but there are times where something that could be seen as censorship doesn't really bother me. And I'll use Xenoblade as an example since we both brought it up. "Metal Face" is originally named "Black Face" in Japan. I don't disagree with them changing the name. It's not because I think people would have been offended, or that Nintendo is right to change it in order to avoid offending people. It's because the name "Black Face" would give a completely different feeling to the western audience than the one Japanese people got. It would be harder for most people to take the story seriously because it would be a meme. In a way it would be like the localizers are injecting their own humor by not changing it... which brings me to my next point since another localization team did just that. In actuality, even though I don't disagree with changing "Black Face" to "Metal Face"(actually I do disagree they should have at least went the extra mile and called him "Obsidian Face" or something instead) I also don't necessarily agree either, because on the flip side Funimation decided to keep "Goku Black" as "Goku Black" instead of changing it to "Dark Goku" or something, and while it DID become a meme people were still able to take it seriously and get engaged with the story. It's a bit of a distraction, and it definitely gives a different impression than it would in Japan, but it doesn't ruin anything either. In fact, I personally think it enhances it unintentionally. That said, if they did decide to change it to "Dark Goku" it wouldn't really bother me, and I would understand why they did it. To simplify my thoughts, I think it's wrong to change something because you're scared your audience won't like it. I think it's another thing to change something because you're worried your audience won't receive it the way it was intended. If the name that the creator intended to be menacing and cool comes off as a joke and a meme in another language should it be left the same? That wouldn't really be transferring the author's intention accurately either would it? But I also think it's pretty impossible to translate the intention perfectly into another language and figuring out the authors intention isn't always easy even if you speak the same language, so I'd lean towards not changing it myself. I'm just saying that if you chose the other option I wouldn't say you're wrong.

[@lpfan4491]

Metal Face is dumb, but it at least makes sense in the lore, so it is excusable.(It's something resembling a human face made out of metal. And they probably wouldn't change what they call it just because they find out there are more faced mechon later.)

[@Stigmaphobia777]

When it comes to stuff like this I always wonder: where exactly is the line? Obviously borderline machine translation is too faithful, and equally obviously jamming American culture war nonsense where it doesn't belong is too liberal. But where do we stop in the middle? Would more colorful language/action movie references inserted into the Black Lagoon localization be unacceptable even though it fits with the spirit of the original work? Is giving up honorifics sacrificing too much of the creators' intention? Does it only depend on demographic? Like weebier stuff such as Visual Novels can get away with having more Japanese stuff than say a popular shonen series with worldwide appeal. There's crossover between them, too; so it's not as though you can make everyone happy. Maybe as the world becomes more used to anime companies will feel less compelled to edit out cultural differences - which to an extent I believe is already happening. In spite of the problems we still have, we're a far cry away from visually editing hot dogs at a ramen shop.

[@Ackermin]

For me personally, once a localizer’s opinion gets involved in the localization process that means we’ve gone too far. The target should always be a localization that stays as close to the original work as possible while still being understandable to the target audience. Like you mentioned this is a delicate balancing act that will depend on who you’re actually localizing for. For example, honorifics are not something that a mainstream audience will not understand so if your product targets a mainstream audience I’d say it’s fine to remove them if they’re not integral to the plot. There is an argument to be made here though that by leaving in things like honorifics and language specific puns and jokes you’re slowly going to teach an audience the meaning of said things so it’s fine to leave them in. I also think that’s a fine way to go about things if the people you’re localizing for are willing.

[@YARGGG_GG]

2 years on and this is still as relevant as ever. the 'pro localization' crowd has become pretty vicious, basically just screaming at you to shut up if you raise this issue as it keeps happening again and again.

[@Token-j1n]

I think both are bad. The pro localization crowd that unnecessarily defend everything while the anti localization crowd that call almost any change bad, such as the creator of this video.

[@TyrantOfVirtue]

someone else probably already mentioned it, but the one thing missing from this video is voice acting. I played Xenoblade 1 many times, and I played it with both voice languages. Rare game where the English version is waaay better. Not even close. Minor characters obviously suffer the most from the ENG, but holy sht Adam Howden as Shulk is a match made in heaven. The screams man. Xenoblade 2 is a different story tho. Racecar Rex is a term after all lol

[@Wolfenga]

Be like Rex and love each and every one.

[@belstar1128]

Always play the original.

[@17th_Colossus]

Nowadays it’s starting to feel like Google translate is more of a better alternative for accurate translations compared to the official “translations”…it sucks!

[@davek8488]

we could have a timeline where people around the world actually call homura and hikari their actual names, but nope those localizers really need to change the MAIN CHARACTERS name and now every non JP player will call them pyra and mythra forever. Just checked xb3 names changing too, they really hate japanese names

[@NarmyHiiragi]

The name changes in XB3 are actually a terrible localization choice for another reason. In the Japanese version of the game the Agnus faction all have Japanese names while the Keves faction all have non-Japanese names. They changed the names of some Agnus members to non-Japanese names, removing a unique difference between the factions.

[@lapotato9140]

oh wow, those poor poor gamers who will never know that the TRUE(real!!!!) names of these characters are actually just surface level puns for fire and light mixed with incredibly common female japanese names. the horror. obviously the mythological references the english version uses are worse because you said so.

[@daud4914]

@@lapotato9140 yes, why change it if it's not important??? oh the godly english people use mythological references that means it's okay to replace the original, but other characters are untouched, like rex, where's my mythological references for rex??

[@daud4914]

@@lapotato9140 imagine this logic applying to bleach: ichigo is just pun of "strawberry", lets just change his name to thanatos because it's a reference to myth of death, you will eat it up like a fool. fortunately that didn't happen, people around the world still called him TRUE(REAL) name ichigo because people can handle japanese name apparently, oh the poor poor anime watcher that will never know the COOLER (MYTH OF DEATH???) name from english

[@lapotato9140]

@@daud4914 rex is literally a bible reference you cromagnon, next time try understanding the thing you're actually arguing for and you wont embarrass yourself.

[@lpfan4491]

I am of two minds. I often enjoy localized media, like I'm one of the 3 people who prefers 4Kids animedubs from time to time, but I am sad that if such a localization project is done, that is usually all there is and all there ever will be. And I feel that if we can only one script for resource-reasons or whatever, then it should be the more accurate one. And that really affects any language that got handled unfaithfully, be it english, german or whatever else. I am also very much in support of fantranslations for everything where there is enough diffrence to note for it to have a point. The Xenoblade fanbase simply never properly bothered thus far besides the name changes and like one or two major examples, so a lot of stuff is largely undocumented...even tho everyone knows Xenoblade 2(and to a lesser degree the other games) has a lot of things to note. It goes to the point where I, dude who does not even speak japanese, seemingly somehow managed to sus out for the first time that "Bringer of Chaos" is entirely made up. And it was not even hard to notice that something was fishy, I simply noticed it not being there when I cross-referenced the japanese cutscenes to find the japanese equivalent of the title(for a potential german wiki if I can ever get a server, but that's irrelevant).

[@Token-j1n]

Xenoblade 2 is mostly just name changes. As a whole, Xenoblade localization is fine. It does its job of conveying the story accurately to foreign audiences and people clearly loved it. The opinions are not different to Japanese players, I've noticed. And where's your evidence that "bringer of chaos" is made up?

[@lpfan4491]

@@Token-j1n It's quite literally nowhere is the evidence. Not in the difficulty names(It instead is "Ultimate"), it is not in the cutscene(In japanese, he calls himself "Zeke B Ultimate Genbu", which has 4 parts to it. "Bringer of Chaos" was made up to make up for "Zeke von Genbu" only having 3 parts to it, leaving the last bit empty otherwise). In the OST, it is instead "Raigou", which comes from his actual canonical title "Raigou no Jiiku"(Literally translated as "Thunderbolt Zeke" otherwise). In the cutscene names, there still is nothing close to Bringer of Chaos, instead it is "Majimon", which seems to be a made up term and the internet is not entirely helpful with that, but it seems to be related to either a translation of "true monster"(Which would reference Zeke pretending to be an antagonist) or japanese slang for "seriously"(Which would be ironic, I guess). I literally looked everywhere and that "Majimon" is the closest I could get to a "direct" unlocalized counterpart. People put the BoC title into character analyses and it's literally not even in the script.

[@Token-j1n]

@@lpfan4491 Yes, in Japanese, the term that Zeke uses instead of "Bringer of Chaos" gives the same sort of essence, despite being different. What you witnessed is literally standard localization lmao.

[@lpfan4491]

@@Token-j1n What title that he used? Again, there is no direct equivalent. The closest is something used only out of universe in the cutscene select.

[@Token-j1n]

@@lpfan4491 You just gave the title examples. Just because it doesn't have the same number of parts means nothing.

[@gbdeck200]

Yeah localizers sucks, doesn't help most studios for translation is California and that nightmare of pc culture so they change it for moral progressivism basically ego Juniper xeno 3 gets it rough here, character is just androgynous but cause they don't immediately say it localizers use it as a means to make them nb which isn't good for anyone Just shows why river city had two, base localization isn't trustworthy

[@lpfan4491]

Tbf, Juniper is quite literally genderless even as far as Monolith themselves are concerned. And They/Them is better as neutral pronoun then "it". However, it is infact very possible that it was leaned into in localization for the agenda of pleasing the crazy crowd who care more about claiming characters than what the actual author-intend was...which that crowd got mighty awkward when the DLC dropped and it got more complex to where only people who actually cared about the material understood what is going on.

[@skylandersfan6954]

Junipers gender is 2 in the code while male and female characters are 0 and 1 respectively, they are both figuratively and literally non binary

[@DavidHosey1]

I agree with your points and think story integrity is far too important to lose to bad localization. I’m just confused why someone would say the Xenoblade localizations are anywhere close to bad, when it added depth to the world building, character to the characters, etc. Really bad example to use for a topic that you’re otherwise pretty right on

[@AzuriteGaming]

Ignorance is bliss. Once you play the Japanese script you'll get why it's bad.

[@DavidHosey1]

@@AzuriteGaming I have, the Japanese script is about the same, just without the charm and honestly worldbuilding of accents and the like added in

[@DavidHosey1]

@@AzuriteGaming you are literally lying. Character personalities are changed, but the events and the world? Far from it, there’s a reason the writing and world building is so exceptional in this series and it’s cause the original visions were maintained. And I can confidently say this not only as someone who understands both voice settings, not only as a writer who scrutinized the story, but as a person with common sense. Please don’t make things up to prop up an already factually incorrect take. If you like Japanese more than English for voices and personalities, just say it. No reason to make something up that is factually disprovable just to try and make it look more valid

[@DavidHosey1]

@bengarrison7780 you’re a furry? Ew. 💀

[@skylandersfan6954]

​@@AzuriteGamingThis does not answer the question lol

[@Tahworld-b6d]

entire dragon quest 11, Jeanne d'Arc was ruined by using too many annoying english dialects that make it harder to understand the characters and don't fit with the japanese voices I hear when playing

[@Vic_v._Gerdenheim]

For the most part, I disagree with you. I am fascinated by the changes localizers make, whether they be accurate or inaccurate. I think there is also a difference between localization and downright censorship. While I did not care how Fire Emblem Fates got rid of face-petting and certain outfits, I can understand how some players would think they are not getting the full experience of the game. In French, there is a phrase called "la belle infidèle," which I believe fits this situation. This phrase - which translates to "the unfaithful beauty" - refers to an elegant, but inaccurate translation. Of course, not every localization is elegant. I speak both English and German, so I like to play my games in German when I can. I do often notice how there are small details that are added or changed because of how the language is formed. The last game I finished completely in German was Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity, which has a surprising amount of text. It also does one of my favorite things by letting you have text and speech be different languages. That is not to say that I will defend all cases of localization. I am currently playing the Live-A-Live remake, and I have been pretty disappointed with the script changes. Granted, I never played the fan-translation, but I am aware of some of the changes between the original and remake. In particular, the end of the prehistoric chapter ends with Pogo, the main character, creating the first spoken word, "love." This is a powerful ending considering how no words are spoken at all throughout the chapter. But in the remake, he just funny screams. I understand the Japanese word for "love" is "ai" which can sound like a scream, but how hard would it have been just to keep it consistent between language. In the remake, it seems like only those who understand Japanese are getting the whole story. I also hear changes were made to the final chapter which ruins the ending. Although, I haven't gotten there yet.

[@ACESchultz]

To be fascinated by or even to appreciate changes that localizers make means that you must also be in a position to understand both the source material and the localized material. In this case you are still aware of the original creator’s intent, whether or not you prefer it to the localized version. The issue is when someone who cannot understand the source material is presented with a heavily or poorly altered translation and then that person walks away from that experience with a warped perception of the original creator’s intent.

[@ZealGames]

It sounds like you completely agree with him 100 percent.... When you say you enjoyed or were intrigued by some localization changes..., that doesn't mean other bad changes didn't bother you. He didn't say localization IS bad. He said bad localization. Criticism exists for both novices and experts. To say you disagree with him after all you just said is like saying Gordon Ramsay can't criticize talented chefs because they were creative and their food was tasty.

[@Vic_v._Gerdenheim]

@@ZealGames When I said I disagreed, I was referring more to how the video seems to think that pure translation is better than localization 100 percent of the time. I disagree with that. I don't really understand why anyone would feel "duped" after playing Pokemon in both English and Japanese. Obviously, I haven't done it myself, but I can't imagine there's that big of a difference. No matter what language you speak, your journey stays the same. You get a Pokemon, fight more of them and become the champion. I wish the video went into more detail about what particular localization changes he found troubling since I haven't played Xenoblade Chronicles or the new Pokemon games. The video also does not go into detail on what is "bad" localization other than that some changes are arbitrary. Just because I like some localization changes or am interested in the process does not mean I like every change nor does it mean I prefer direct translation all of the time.

[@ZealGames]

@Vic v. Gerdenheim First of all. Complete respect to you, your opinions, and your interest in speaking about it. It's great that we're all willing to share our opinions like this. Media matters... But I think that's the problem, where he says " STOP DEFENDING BAD LOCALIZATION". "bad" is subjective if you look at it as what's most enjoyable. But there are many cases that most people can agree on, where localization team was stumped, and didn't know what to do, and screwed up. When they screw up, people need to notice and say something or else there will be no quality control. His examples don't matter bc someone will always disagree, so I'm glad he didn't go into detail there. Some people will defend a show like Sonic X because they loved the show . But those people shouldn't "defend" the localization without actually WATCHING the Japanese one. Maybe the American version is a 9/10 and the Japanese is a 10/10.... But when your teacher gives you a 90 on your essay, she will point out the flaws... eg: "Best essay I've ever read. However the grammar was atrocious.." Great essay terrible grammar. GREAT SHOW, TERRIBLE LOCALIZATION. And the same should occur here. And ESPECIALLY FOR GAMES, I think that it's easy to never notice the localization at all, and then "praise " the localization, when you don't know anything about the localization, but you DO know about the great game. None of this is personal ofc, just hypothetical "you".

[@jahrfuhlnehm]

The Live A Live remake from all I've seen is a botch job with an added drop of gender acknowledgement/erasure and script rewrites altogether. A monk character who speaks rather directly, crassly one might say, in Japanese and the fan translation says a line like "alright, calm down, that look isn't flattering for a pretty face" (not verbatim of course), but the remake they thought such Filthy Misogyny was unacceptable per the Squeenix Ethics Department so now he's a bland monk stereotype who spouts some fortune cookie wisdom BS. A line that was also supposed to say "amigo," like, the actual Spanish word, was "hey friends." Yet there's some line from someone about sucking on your mom's tit milk or something that got left intact and is accurate to what was originally said (but no issues with that I guess) so I think the whole localization process for the remake was a "screw it, wing it" session done on drugs.

[@HunchbackOfNotreJon]

The problem with this conversation is that it assumes localization faithfulness is inherently a matter of quality. I disagree with this premise on the whole. What matters to me is: Does the translation tell a good story that keeps the spirit of the source? I believe there's a spectrum on this. Localization is as much an art as the original script. I would rather have a well written translation that takes liberties within reason over an accurate translation by a bad writer. What about cases where censorship improves a story? Xenosaga has a scene where Albedo originally cuts his head off with a knife. The censored version removes the knife and is actively better for it. Him ripping his head off with his bare hands is so much more unhinged, and I would argue more in character. Watching the uncensored version, the knife looks wrong. It doesn't match the lighting. The blade is too bright. It looks better without, and if they kept it, the scene likely wouldn't have stuck with me over 10 years later. Wherein a translation is too accurate, may be someone taking things too literally. They might get the content 100% correct on a technical level, but if they don't understand the point it may be substantially worse than a translation less accurate by a more nuance writer who understands the source better. This is to say: Accuracy does not equate to quality as a 1-to-1 variable. I believe in death of the author broadly speaking. The writer isn't always right simply by being the original. Adaptions can be better than the source.

[@Silvianoshei]

Counterpoint: having played Xenoblade Chronicles 3 in both English and Japanese now, I can firmly say that the English script is better in almost every way. The localization team definitely made some changes to the specific dialogue in many places, but to be honest, the dialogue in the original Japanese lacks a lot of the depth that the English script writers were able to put in without changing anything important, plot-wise.

[@Ackermin]

Counterpoint to your counterpoint: what we’re talking about here is not whether a finished end-product is subjectively good or bad to an individual. The real issue is the arbitrary changing of games done during localization. I don’t care if the English localized version is “better” to some people because that’s not what I’m criticizing. I’m criticizing the decision made by the localizers, among others, to change a script at all. I’m pretty sure I said all this in the video as well.

[@anr4139]

do they at least pay you for this or are you one of those lolcowlizers trying to defend your failed writing career?

[@Silvianoshei]

@@Ackermin that’s fair, but why is change inherently worthy of criticism? Especially if it’s received the blessing of the original creators? Sorry if you’ve answered that in another video, I’m happy to go RTFM if you’ve already explained that somewhere else

[@AzuriteGaming]

I doubt you played XC3 in Japanese if you think the English script is better.

[@Silvianoshei]

@@AzuriteGaming The Japanese script is much more ‘Anime’ for lack of a better word. It’s a matter of taste.

[@thomasjensen3403]

Come OOON! You know you like handling a man turtle.

[@HolyMarmot]

I'm against the very concept of localization on principle. You can't rearrange language and "adapt" a different culture to your own. When localizers start inserting popular memes from the west into the dialogue, that goes beyond bastardizing the product. Localization had it's moments of brilliance like when Vagrant Story elevated the original japanese dialogue for the anglo audiences. But the method didn't involve censoring or changing meaning, it actively searched for an aesthetic that matched the game. But those moments were so far and few in between, that you can't trust the judgement of the Localizers to do a good job, because most of the time you just can't do something like Alex O Smith did with VS. And specially with the current Localizers with huge egos and delusions of big artistry, let alone their insertions of personal and corporate activism.

[@Token-j1n]

This seems to be based on a severe misunderstanding of what localisation actually is, what it involves and how Japanese works. You absolutely _can_ rearrange language and adapt it into the respective culture while maintaining the key aspects of the work. People often misrepresent localisation when the meaning absolutely is not different while it was modified to fit the local culture.

[@SuperLuigi1025]

I am in the 3rd camp. Don't care about the localization of a game only care about how fun the game is. As long as it isn't so bad that there are a lot of spelling errors to point I can't understand the controls or items are misleading on what they do I don't really care about the localization of a game.

[@DVK111]

As someone who does not speak Japanese and likes a lot of japanese games and media I do not care Its like ignorance is bliss. You might be right that localization often negatively affects the overall product, but it gets really annoying when you play a game and enjoy it, to then have people in your ear telling you that actually the localization sucks and you should be upset about it. From a perspective of ignorance, it’s just unneeded negativity and ends up being very annoying.

[@Ackermin]

There’s always gonna be people like yourself who don’t care. That’s fine. But one of the points I was trying to make was that if localization was just generally done more faithfully it would not negatively impact anyone, especially those that don’t care. You would have no idea that the localization is very faithful just like you don’t know it’s unfaithful now so you’re happy. On the other side, those of us that do care would also be happy because the localization is faithful. Everyone else is getting a game that’s extremely close to the intentions of the original creators who are the actual people making the game so I don’t see anything to complain about there as well. If you find localization criticism annoying there’s not really much I can do about that but I find it hard to believe people are actively searching you or anyone else out and telling you the localization of the games you like are bad. If I had to guess it’s probably more like you’re seeking them out in some way like on Twitter so just stop doing that.

[@jase276]

No one is in your ear, dude. If you truly enjoy living in ignorance then just stay in your cave. Ideally, whether you like localization or not, you should be upset that they insult your intelligence with their censorship and fanfiction but it's your prerogative to not be. Though it's ironic you claim to like "lots of japanese games and media" when you just said you rather enjoy the altered westernized version of it. So, I guess one has to question if you really do enjoy Japanese media when what you're consuming isn't even the genuine thing.

[@MasterAsra]

If you want to talk about a game that has a bad translation or had some other stigma about it you're always going to have people telling you about it. It's no different from reading a manga and finding out the mangaka did something terrible. You don't need to be upset about it, but people are going to talk about things that came out wonky or were done badly in games or manga because a lot of people find terrible translations and attempts to "americanize" things funny.

[@lpfan4491]

@@slopernafti902 (Except that some localizations are still done without any context at all, that is not exclusively a thing of the past)

[@lpfan4491]

@@slopernafti902 I mentioned it to illustrate a point. The idea that a localization "has" to have contact with the original dev-team on everything is completely taken from thin air when publishers clearly have the ability to send out localizations without even any real QA.

[@Token-j1n]

I have to be honest, this just seems like you're telling anyone who disagrees with you to just stop disagreeing. From your Red "analysis and comparison", I've got an idea on your opinion on localization. And you expressed your opinions. What you said, I'm sure you are aware, is not fact. People who disagree with your criticisms aren't "defending bad localization". They simply just disagree with what you think about it. What seems to be the case is that you don't really understand what localization is and incorporates. You seem to constantly label any changes as messing with the original meaning and downplaying any other potential interpretation of the text, simultaneously pushing yours to propel the narrative that they are different.

[@Token-j1n]

@bengarrison7780 Yes, because I've made my own comparisons and they are fantastic. There are parts where they aren't the best, but for the most part, they're good at retaining the message while simultaneously sounding natural and not a goofy direct, literal translation that sounds awkward. You can't just tell others to dismiss my comment because of something I said that you disagree with, Ben.

[@SymmetricalDocking]

@@Token-j1n Even before Ben said that completely correct statement, you were completely wrong with "Defending a bad localization is not defending bad localization."

[@anr4139]

the eternal eop

[@Token-j1n]

@@SymmetricalDocking If you're just going to call someone's statement that you agree with "completely correct", I think it shows you aren't too familiar with critical thinking. Not to mention your lack of expansion of your point.

[@XFR18]

So basically, I like the rewritten fanfic the localizer was too lazy/rushed to actually do correctly therefore it is good and you are wrong. In the end you are still wrong because in the end it's not the original or close, allowing liberties and low quality check up in terms of keeping it to the original, only allows for it to spiral downward which we see today with the extremes of adding memes or social political remarks. Just because you personally like a bootleg fanfic doesn't mean it should continue to exist when we can very easily just not have the problem at all.

[@veroanancards]

Don't put the other Xenoblade games into the bad localiation pool, that's exclusive to Xenoblade 2. The other games are fine.

[@jase276]

Xenoblade 3 has pretty bad localization as well. I don't see why it would suddenly change after Xenoblade 2 assuming it's the probably same exact ones in charge

[@Miyakolover]

XB3 Is also bad and full of fanfiction.

[@Miyakolover]

@@jase276 Some people are just in denial.

[@skylandersfan6954]

Even Xenoblade 2 is pretty good in that department

[@skylandersfan6954]

​@@jase276What bad localisation is there in 3?

[@عبدالرحمنهندي-ل2ط]

Xenoblade 2 is the worst example of bad localization since it is imo better than the jp version but xenoblade 3 is another story since the localization team changed an entire character due to their voice actor instead of replacing them

[@Miyakolover]

And yet it's still full of fanfiction dialogue...especially Eunie.

[@Miyakolover]

@@slopernafti902 I have enough knowledge of Japanese to know the script is full of BS dialogue that has nothing to do with the Japanese version, I don't need to be "enlightened" by a video of "localizers" trying to cover their own butts so they can keep doing what they're doing.

[@Miyakolover]

@@slopernafti902 Argument of Authority fallacy. I already debunked you with actual examples kiddo. Keep worshipping your "wokelizers". "And I have been learning Japanese since I was an infant, due to having Japanese relatives and conversing in Japanese with them. " Yeah, bullshit.

[@Miyakolover]

@@slopernafti902 I'd love to see how you'd try to bullshit me into thinking that these two sentences in this image have the same "intended meaning" i.imgur.com/mqn6J5H.png Because I have indeed met idiots trying to use the "intended meaning" to justify such bullshit.

[@Miyakolover]

​@@slopernafti902 " If you don't want blandness in the dialogue for a game like Xenoblade, you sorta need to take some liberties. " Oh, the classic "Japanese is a bland language" bullcrap. And yet your localizers can't help but over-use bland language in every single localization, here is a list I compiled of different localized RPG's of over-used dialogue that you don't see in the Japanese language: ""Piece of cake!" "A sinch!" "When push comes to shove" "You/he/she don't pull any punches" "You don't mince words" "Have our/your work cut out for you/us" "No skin off my back" "Lets give it a whirl" "Looks like we've hit the jackpot" "Searching every nook and cranny" "Sticking out like a sore thumb" "Look alive, people!" "The Cat is outta the bag" "Looks like the jig is up" "You can say that again" "Break a leg" "Bringing out the big guns!" "We must not/I must not let my guard down!" "this is no walk in the park" "Everyone stay sharp!" "Give him a run for his money" "A real piece of work" "Small fry" "Looks like they're bringing out the big guns!" "Running amok" "The little rascal" "....in my book" "Still in one piece" "They/he dont'/doesn't know when to give up!" "Run of the mill" "Getting up to speed" "Take it for a spin!" "X is no slouch, either" "Digging up dirt" "Got some dirt on X" "You're barking up the wrong tree" "Getting a kick out of it" "From yours truly" "You could cut the tension with a knife" "They're two peas in a pod" "In a jiff" "Do me/us a solid" Some of them even repeat on this list because that's how repititive they were when I compliled them.

[@ghost_walker_x]

Yeah, I don't need to watch more than 30 seconds of this video to know that it's 100% biased. Spark off.

[@anr4139]

westoid

[@ghost_walker_x]

@@anr4139 Call me that all ya snuffin' want, ya spoon, you're just making this funnier. Imagine thinking people like me are muppets while also losing your mind over a few different words.

[@anr4139]

@@ghost_walker_x westoid

[@AzuriteGaming]

@@ghost_walker_x If you think it's just a few different words you're very confused.

[@toooydoeur]

​@@anr4139 clown

[@Enrikuh]

As for what "localization" is. I think that "localization" in any case is bad, because it uses the theory of translation called "Domestication". That is to try to conform a foreign work to another culture and audience in a different country than the country from which the work originates. So I think "localization" is something wrong and far from being a true translation. The method of "foreignization", is to try to keep as much as possible all that is foreign information from another culture, only in this way to be able to respect the original meaning. It is not translating everything literally, but striving to translate everything possible, literally. What cannot be translated literally, or can be adapted to something that respects the original and contextual meaning of the work, or use translation notes. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_and_foreignization )

[@Enrikuh]

@@slopernafti902 " What cannot be translated literally, or can be adapted to something that respects the original and contextual meaning of the work, or use [[[[[[[[translation notes.]]]]]]]]"

[@Enrikuh]

@@slopernafti902 Did you know that it's extremely easy to code an option in a game's menu, for translation notes right? Or in the middle of a cutscene with a pause menu. The issue is that localizers are extremely lazy.

[@thomasjensen3403]

Even Phoenix Wright?

[@thomasjensen3403]

youndont agrre with what Polygon thought about Futaba saying "Me near ok?" do you?. Or wasn't that the case?