The Loner: Why Some People Play MMOs Alone

[@fast1nakus]

Personaly i hate playing with other people but i really like to see them in my game. Feels alive in some ways.

[@avehein]

Ugly Cactus same here. They are much better than npcs

[@belldrop7365]

NPCs can't replicate that feeling of showing of the super rare paid lootbox exclusive skin and emotes.

[@MichaelWilliams-fd5ww]

I'm the same I really like mmo's because I always like to craft, buy and sell from/for others but not good at grouping for questing or adventuring outside of the town... That and I'm an old solo player and don't like grouping up with strangers.

[@MichaelWilliams-fd5ww]

@Angel Ramirez agreed, it should feel like a community! Where you're not socially pressured or are being forced into groups to achieve something! I want a team up but with other online players.... I understand how angry I make people when I group up with them with my level 1 gear that has exp gain plus to the highest quality and skills that I have slotted to max out not to necessarily be of any help in social pvp or pve... Most of the time I get abandoned in the middle of a dungeon surrounded by enemy npc and monsters... An issue I usually face is that I like to max everything before I can even attempt to group up... What's worse is if I make a mistake in a quest choice or a skill/attribute I want to restart the OC since there's no saving and reloading... Sometimes even if the OC looks a little bit off than what I made it to look like... Sometimes I notice early in the game but I even do it late late into the game.... Maxed level, stats and all. One OC has been rebooted over 20 times.... Question to everyone: Do I sound like a person who you want to group up with?....

[@anarchyantz1564]

You hit the nail on the head Ugly Cactus. Plus like others have said we dont all have the same schedule etc. I used to end up doing 12 hour days for the firm i worked for, most of my online friends on WoW were in Europe, im in the UK so by the time i got home, ate, fed and sorted dog etc its gone 8pm my time. They would raid mid week at 7pm their time so basically couldnt sign up for anything as a definite because......well real life. That and when i want to unwind i like to do it at my pace not anothers generally.

[@siskavard]

I've always played MMOs solo, mostly because I don't like when playing a game is put on a schedule, it begins to feel like work & less like leisure.

[@Szobiz]

^ right on point

[@Szobiz]

^ right on point

[@revolutionarycomrade]

that's the biggest reason for me, the second being that im uncomfortable interacting more than i must with strangers, even online x_x

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

Same here. And also I don't like when I can't just play for "a little bit", when late game dungeons are becoming more and more lengthy and takes longer to match a raid. Kinda why I didn't played FFXIV for a year, just don't quite have the time.

[@ppsarrakis]

i play mmo's with friends but i dont let their game schedules effect my game play,we just group up when we feel like it.

[@lydellb]

People are really good at metagaming MMO's so hard that they feel like work to play. I don't have time for that. I want to use what build I want to use, I want to play the way I want to play, and playing alone is the only way I can do that without someone breathing down my neck. Being alone means I can play the game without being pressured into playing like everyone else.

[@PlazDreamweaver]

FFXIV in a nutshell. And Yoshi P sucks off the players who turn the game into a job. I already have a full time job, I don't need another. Want to raid in high end? Welp, too bad, gotta be perfect. Want to get awesome gear? Welp, gotta do those savage and ultimate raids. Seriously, it turned me off from the game. I do appreciate that I can do most things alone without having to talk/deal with other players, though.

[@Borsecann]

@@PlazDreamweaver Holy balls you're probably the first person that I've ever heard call FF14 a job. If anything to me it seems like the most "you don't have to login 24 hours a day" mmo out there.I feel like it even incentivizes you to get the hell outside and smell the roses from time to time. Literally any other MMO and I would've said "yea that mmo doesn't respect players time at all" but ff14 I can walk away for half a year and come back without feeling like I lost something or can never get back in.

[@thewhynaut5070]

A gamer after my own heart. Enjoy what should be meant to enjoy! Not to mention all the devs who have watch some guy Speedrun past all his hard work and creativity.

[@spiritofthewolf1880]

@@PlazDreamweaver You have no idea what you're talking about, dude... I've played a lot of MMOs and I recently picked up FFXIV. It's one of the few games out there that actually respects my fucking time and I can play at my own pace. Where the hell do you get off attacking Yoshi-P like that? smh

[@jamesdriscoll_tmp1515]

"And when I drink alone I prefer to be by myself" - G. Thoroughgood

[@BKPrice]

As a loner, I'll answer this simply: I like the game and they don't make it in single player. Grouping takes way too much time and coordination.

[@vinimooraess]

But would the game still be as fun in singleplayer?

[@KaiHydra]

@@vinimooraess runescape says yes

[@sirvalhart7464]

@@KaiHydra literally just got back into rs again and i parrot this statement

[@FollowMe4REP]

Also, somehow nobody has figured out how to streamline grouping into even one microscopic fleck of worth the trouble.

[@zekedelsken9963]

@@FollowMe4REP dungeons are queues in every game now. You just hit go and the game parties you up. Im not sure how much more streamlined you can make it. WoW and ff14 at least do this.

[@assaultnya6233]

In the words of Yahzee "I usually like to play with myself, but sometimes I like to play with myself where people can see me"

[@adamjohnson2961]

That is flippin hilarious!

[@thetrueking9053]

that sounds a whole lot worse written down

[@andygreen3575]

That can get you arrested.

[@definitelynotcrazyrei3890]

Let me know when someone breaks the 420 likes, so I can come give this a like.

[@assaultnya6233]

@@definitelynotcrazyrei3890 I’ll keep an eye out for ya

[@TheFinagle]

What I want in an MMO is the ability to level and play solo but also having group events I can walk up to and join unofficially. Guild Wars 2 does this really well with the world bosses. I dont have to socialize but still get to join in.

[@BeepBoop-z2v]

Try Genshin Impact. Most of it is player vs environment and even going to others worlds or do bosses/events together isn't pitting people up against each other. All the characters, even the worst, can put out enough damage to clear the game

[@passisqwermnbv]

Same, especially when I don't have that much time to put in the game. I can't keep up with the meta all the time and I don't have the energy to maintain additional social circle. So, I want to be able to solo main progress so I can get myself up to speed without pressure. And the solo must have respectable content in both gameplay and lore. Then, I may hop in multiplayer for short random fun with strangers. Doing short content. Failing missions because we all went 100% support comp for lulz or something.

[@바보Queen]

@@BeepBoop-z2v why the f would u tell people to play a gacha game? its not an MMO at all.. and GW2 is infinately better than that dumbass gacha game.. and hes talking about open world events something gacha can't even do ..

[@Hachiae]

Play SWTOR, sounds right up your ally

[@exodyno]

@@바보Queen well you're right that it isn't an MMO but he's right on his take anyway. Didn't even have to do the "gacha" part of it for it to be a GAME to play. It's MiHoYo, they'll toss in free characters for you in updated versions. Genshin is totally focused more on indulging yourself exploring etc. than going full ham in meta plays with "gacha" characters and "gacha" weapons. Random co-op can be fun as people like to just toy around and clown on world bosses for the sake of fun. Though limited to four people, there are open world events in Genshin like in version 1.1's event. It's all about finding fun. I can understand that you don't like the game but let's not totally downplay its capability to induce fun for people especially those who like to play solo on big open world then join occasionally with others for some co-op shenanigans. Though personally, I'd recommend OP to play FFXIV. Community seems to be good and fun for the most part.

[@darkholyPL]

We all like being alone, together.

[@fuuryuuSKK]

And we're all alone togetherr

[@eliegbert8121]

#agedlikewine

[@yalocaldex]

That's pretty confusing

[@adambarthelemy975]

It’s funny you say that because I actually enjoy either playing alone or with other people that aren’t part of the big community. I like to play alone or with other loners.

[@erickurquidez8944]

Well said

[@conflicc5505]

When you play with other people your usually being rushed or expected to know everything already...I'm one of those people that like to read the actual mission

[@nakumavecaan254]

Yeah, same here. It's tiring with the constant preaching of the good is in the endgame. I don't care about the endgame, I want to enjoy the game now. Sure some grinding can be slightly fun, but the "rush to the good part" sounds almost more like the kind of speech of someone who has an addiction. Reading the mission and actually getting into the lore just makes me more invested in the game. If anything, it also let's you pause for a minute.

[@davethescrub858]

Go play Runescape folks, lots of reading there for you! And you can play as an ironman to truly stand alone and be self sufficient

[@giantdad1661]

This never used to be the case except during raids or bosses, but even then people were gracious when it came to teaching someone a boss.

[@nirgunawish]

when i play with other people they expect me to be normal. but im autistic and mentally ill as fuk

[@FlamingAtheist]

This, there is a story and mission and stuff written for a reason. Hell a lot of games have a damn codex so you can read up on stuff. But then you get people who just want to mindlessly click and get the satisfaction of WIN or whatever and dont care about the story.

[@KilobyteD]

Scanning through the comments, but I'll add my own reason: I'm actually a pretty social person IRL, but gaming is my "me time" so I prefer to just kind of veg out and do what I want at my own pace.

[@SupahTrunks7]

It depends on what you want out of a game. Some people really like exploring the vast world's MMOs often have, some people play MMOs that are part of a franchise they enjoy like SWTOR or Elder Scrolls Online because they don't want to miss out on content, and a lot of good quality single player games are expensive to buy just to try out whereas a lot of MMOs are either free to play or pay to win but you can decide later on if you want to pay for those bonuses. Plus I know for me when I decide to play an mmo I'm probably not thinking about what the "better" way to play is bc playing any other way is strange to me.

[@lanceknightmare]

@@SupahTrunks7 There is no such thing as a Free to Play game which also gives you the option to Pay to Play. That is a marketing salesmanship which has tricked people into thinking this exists. If there is a payed currency in the game then the game is going to be designed to force you to spend money. This is a concept which goes back to Arcades the machines. These games are designed to kill you. The thing is an Arcade Cabinet is built like a game with a monthly fee. The game wants you to enjoy yourself. The cost is .25 cents to $1 per try or the $15 or more a month to play the game. The Free to Play game if you play it free will ultimately feel pointless because the game is not designed for you. Also, you will get further spending $60 for four months of a game with a monthly fee than you will spending $60 on a Free to Play game.

[@k.v.7681]

@Colin Deal As said by Tinker Brows. I tend to be "on and off socialy", or have different wants. ESO or GW2 are great for that. Sometimes I want to take a stroll in a magnificently crafted area (some places in those games are gorgeous), and take the time to enjoy the really nice OST most people never hear because they are busy listening to the tank to kill that key boss. Sometimes I want to explore dangerous places in dynamic environments on gigantic maps (Skyrim or The witcher 3, which I both play and enjoy, are not really that big in size), and have people join in randomly to help, to then thank each other and go our separate ways or finish the area together. All the while, other people are doing their thing, bringing the world alive. See them in a tough spot? Go help. Or just watch as that player with his hunter character killed a wolf. Other people allow the unexpected. And beyond that, once you find the right people, you have the door to become more social. It creates a whole with a single game. A kind of swiss army knife of entertainment, both solo and social. The issue with "YOU HAVE TO PLAY SOCIAL!!!! HURR DURR BRBBUGYUOGYF" is that it shoehorns you in specific tasks. Guilds end up eating your pleasure for the benefit of your duty towards the community. I have enough of that in real life. Oh, and some "Gamers" would likely boo me for that, but I really like housing systems. Yes, it can be a gadget, but I spent hours making my house in ESO. Weeks of looking for recipes, collecting mats, scouring traders, to create something. For a character I play with. Again, the multipurpose.

[@wolf2179]

@Colin Deal First the games that encourage multiplayer play, but allow solo are still fun. Just because you want to play by yourself doesn't mean you want to remove yourself from social interaction. If I wanted that, I would just load up a single player game, but then I have no one to talk to. So I guess mission accomplished but not really because most people don't want to be excluded from the social aspect. To answer which game you can play solo that is still just as fun playing with friends, or was anyways is Planetside and Planetside 2. However planetside 2 started pushing more group play and started excluding solo play. The other thing is, just because you can play with a random group of players doesn't mean it will be fun, especially if the group you are with is no where close to the level of playing you do. In other words, that group is being counter-productive to you and dragging you down because ultimately they suck. Which is ok, but not ok for those that are competitive. Also, even if you have friends, doesn't mean your friends are on at the times you play so even if you could play the game with people you know better you simply can't. So looking at this, it is far easier to play the game solo to get the goals done without being hindered by someone else. I play world of tanks, and often competitively. I have platooned with people and while they are having fun it puts more strain on me because often times, they are not on the same playing level as me and either end up dying and thus because there is 3 of us, results in more losses meaning my silver making income has now been hindered. So now the so called fun deemed by the devs, is costing me my income. Doesn't mean I dislike those I platoon with, but it sometimes turns my fun into a chore in now having to teach people so they can live longer. Games shouldn't cater to me either, however the more games that force social interaction, the less likely I will play it because I want to choose when I want that social interaction. I enjoy playing MMO's that don't exclude solo play either. Eve online is a prime example. If you are a solo player you won't be able to do everything but you can still do a lot. That is ok, I don't need to do everything, just need to enjoy it. Hope this is better insight into why someone would play a MMO for solo play.

[@KilobyteD]

@@k.v.7681 Agreed with GW2. I don't play a ton of MMOs anyway, but I've definitely solo'd GW2 + their first expansion with no issues.

[@TheAsmodeus2012]

It's always fascinating to watch guys like this confuse shyness with introversion. As an introvert gamer, I have to point out that it isn't that we're "afraid to talk to that pretty girl at the end of the bar". It's that we never went to the damned bar in the first place, because there's way too many people who'd want to talk to you there, bothering you when you're trying to recharge from the social interactions necessary to your daily life. The prospect of which is simply exhausting for an introvert. We do still like people, of course. It's just tiring to interact with them heavily. The best way to describe our general attitude when playing an MMO would be to say that while we might not want to *be* alone just then, we do very much want to be *left* alone while there. We simply have less need for social interaction than extroverts and can "socialize by osmosis", as a friend used to put it. A lot of times, simply being around a group that is being social, without direct interaction, is more than enough to satisfy our occasional desire for wider social contact. I'm very often more than happy to amuse myself watching the public chat channels in an MMO. It can be very informative. In fact the speaker seems so confused about the subject, he has created at least two categories for us here. You see, the introverts very often *are* the people who go to the forums, etc. and absorb, but never post or talk if it can be helped. They are, for the most part, one and the same group. As you can see, we'll speak up when we feel there's a need, but generally, we're happy to play the game on our own. Not our fault the fuckers are trying to kill off the high-end, single-player gaming experience just because they want to fleece players to an ever-larger degree.

[@Quandry1]

Same with me. Add on top of that the fact that I don't really sleep. And there is just no way that I can adequately match up to any other human being to progress along side of me even if I am not rushing. either because I am just plain up when they are not or I am just up much longer than they are so my schedule ends up as such that I have time to play when they are not available even if they will be available later. It's not satisfying to me to put everything on hold only for when others are available. if I'm going to invest that kind of money into a game I better have plenty that I can do by myself. In WoW I was even in guilds that were constantly busy but I'd rarely speak until some event I signed up for or something that sparked my interest prompted me to speak. Sometimes some would forget I was there. But in others many would know I was there but leave me alone unless something was required whether it was information or help that I was suited to helping with when others couldn't. My extreme amount of play in certain games meant that I had knowledge far in excess of some others for example. Or that I had access to materials or recipe's or what have you that others didn't. But I was still had the ability to be social when I wished to.

[@TheAsmodeus2012]

@@Quandry1 Your comment reminds me how introversion survived in the gene pool in the first place. We were always the folks who lived on the periphery of civilization performing vital, but less social tasks for the communities we introverts were associated with. Hunting, scouting, exploring, procuring rare and valuable materials, etc., etc.. Even now, even in gaming, we tend to fall into those old instinctual and practical patterns. We want to do our parts and feel useful, like anyone else. We just try to find things that will let us do that without actually having to deal with people too much.

[@Quandry1]

introversion is something that even if all the introverts died out it would still reintroduce himself. Everybody has some level of it. Even some of the most highly extroverted people need a moment to themselves for us as a species. The fact that we can do things that can be vital or helpful on top of that. Or do jobs that have more and greater detrimental affects on extroverted types just increases that need to ensure not only that we continue but that we will continue to sprout up in the population no matter what.

[@JETWTF]

Extroverts will never be able to understand that not everyone needs to socialize and they think there's something wrong with introverts. He was saying social anxiety is an introvert problem... No that's an extrovert problem you cannot be an introvert and have social anxiety. Social anxiety is the fear of being rejected in a social situation causing anxiety. To be afraid of being rejected is from the desire for social encounters. Being an introvert we don't desire social encounters and are not afraid of being rejected socially, More like "Well I didn't really want to talk to you either" is what the rejection will make us think. We are not bothered by needing to ask for help or ask the pretty girl out. Something else he said that was absurd, an introvert plays an MMO as a substitute for real life social interaction. Bullcrap, plain and simply bullcrap. You don't need a substitute for something you don't need. Day to day interactions is more socializing than we need because we don't need any at all. An extrovert on the other hand that is socially awkward and\or may have social anxiety would find an MMO a good substitute and allow them to socialize without worries. Being an introvert doesn't mean you don't enjoy the company of others either, hanging out with a friend in a boat fishing all day because you enjoy catching and releasing bass, doing group content in an MMO because you enjoy the content. Asking the pretty girl out and going on dates with her and eventually getting married and having a couple screaming brats who always seem to leave a Lego on the floor where you will step barefooted. Being introverted does not mean always alone, it simply means you do not need social interaction not that you wont have any. Introvert =\= Antisocial but Antisocial == introvert, it is the extreme end not the whole. There's a fun one with being an introvert compared to being an extrovert and that's the introverts desire to be alone compared to an extroverts desire for social interaction. They are equal desires, the more extroverted you are the more social interaction you want and the more introverted you are the more you want to be left alone. Extremes happen and we get hermits and attention whores. @TheAsmodeus2012 You are kinda right but also wrong Introverts are a result of early humans because of those reasons the trait didn't survive because of them but was created by them. And those reasons are also why women talk more than men and men can hang out all day and say 5 words each. When the introvert trait started hunting was a social event, one where the hunters didn't talk to each other for hours on end because talking will spook the prey and attract predators to the hunters. Those that socialized(talked allot) was more likely to be sabre tooth cat chow. The extrovert trait started with the women, those that didn't socialize were more likely to end up as sabre tooth cat chow and everyone constantly talking let the cat know that there was a group. You have all the group chatter attracting the cats and the quiet loner sitting by herself as she flint knapped spear points for her hunter man was easy prey to grab and run with while attacking one in the group is suicide since they all have weapons. The talkative hunter attracts the cat when in close proximity to others and when he is far enough away from anyone else as groups of hunters will spread out to cover more ground... cat chow. So we have the trait created and why men talk less and women talk more. This explains why more men are introverts than women too but not by the same degree as talkative. The change over time was slow but due to more social time for the men and work for the women didn't include becoming cat chow and they could do it away from anyone else and their distractions, the introvert/extrovert trait mixed between the sexes more as it was helpful for certain roles while the talkative traits didn't mix because it didn't really have much function anymore and the sexes continued their way of doing it out of habit.

[@marknut9741]

THIS!

[@Captain-Cat]

The reason some of us play mmos solo is very simple. We don't like playing with other people, but still want to play the game. It's as simple as that.

[@catnium]

than play a single player game .. but than you cant pwn noobs can you

[@ArcticuKitsu]

@@catnium Woosh. Catnium missed the point that MMOs have their own world and stories to tell that you want to experience the lore of things. And it's also because of your comment that people also play solo. Thanks for proving the point.

[@FatherSaunders]

Exactly!

[@0AcE013]

i have to disagree, tbh most mmos stories aren't that interesting i play them cause i like the feeling of other people there, starting from the same place but being very diffrent in everyway. i also like that the world is inhabited by other real people and not just npcs. and lastly the random interactions or small coaperations to get that one boss or stuff like that ,idk i enjoy that aspect alot. as much as i like the witcher 3 and other rpgs there's just something about the MM part of MMO that i really like.

[@FatherSaunders]

When you break it down like that, I couldnt agree more.

[@michaelw6277]

I think you’re missing a key reason why some want to play solo… many of us are professionals with jobs which require social interaction all day every day. Some of us simply want the freedom to choose, often I want to drift about without dealing with others, occasionally I may want to seek assistance with a specifically task, other times I may want the full on party raid experience. Those options don’t exist with a purely single player game.

[@namelesswanderer9315]

And in all such situations, you just cannot be in a situation where leaving now to engage a responsibility or duty that comes up would screw over all the other gamers and now you're "that guy" who always has to bounce.

[@F71P87]

Thats it for me

[@romofin]

He did talk about this kind of person, Loner 4: "Mr. Lunch At His Desk"

[@odojang]

I play solo because: 1- I want to enjoy the game fully and at my own pace. In a group almost all of the time, it's a rush to get the points and finish the task to jump to the next. Can't look at the scenery graphics, can't read the story, can't interact fully with the NPCs etc 2- In groups, it feels like a pinball game. And I don't like pinball games. I want to immerse in the world, not just farm, get points, stuff and level. 3- I don't play games to meet people. When I want to meet people, I go out of the house. 4- When I group, it is usually to help someone else with a challenge, which gives me the opportunity to try those group-only missions. But once help given and done, it's back to solo fun. In short: to each his own.

[@Kaylakaze]

#1 is something I really hate about FF14's forced group dungeons. I can't tell you what any of those dungeons actually looked like.

[@Dumbledoresarmy13]

Ohhh my gosh yes #1 for sure. Any games with story dungeons - people that have played them just blast through like the respawn timers are half a second, and it's all loot farm this and numbers that.... and yeah, without the story/exploring parts a game feels like an arcade game. In a group it's all about the high scores and the random drops and no time to enjoy the world and immerse yourself in it.

[@TheDaxter11]

about number 1, this is one of the things i think wow does better, sure FF14 has the fancy cutscenes inside the dungeons and all that but in wow theyre done in-game by NPCs moving around, the fight literally cant start until the NPCs done with its dialogue and actions, so its impossible to miss out, in FF14 assholes can skip the cutscenes and just start the boss, i dont care if its old content, if a new player wants to experience the whole thing its their right to be able to do so edit: there should be solo options for dungeons, make the gear worse than the regular dungeons, make it drop no gear at all, i dont care, when i do it the first time its for story experience, not loot, let me flip a switch to scale it for one person and let me solo it to get the story part done with

[@gargamel1940]

Why play a mmo then lol? A single player game will give you a better single player experience

[@TheDaxter11]

Gargamel because the games are fun? its more than just wanting a single player experience, if the gameplay itself is fun and it has a good story peoplell still wanna play it, whether they prefer single or multiplayer in my case i like the dungeons and raids and content which lets you join people, cause being with other players, especially the amount of players you get in raids, feels great, the problem is putting story elements in these things, because everyone just wants to skip to get the shit done, either games like FF14 shouldnt put cutscenes in dungeons and raids, there should be one player options that give you no rewards beyond quest rewards so you can go and do it for the story, or the cutscenes should be unskippable, and any glitch to skip the cutscenes patched as soon as possible no matter how old the content

[@mizstyx775]

Anyone I've ever paired up with in MMOs go through quests and dungeons like their ass is on fire. I like to explore, take my time. I've yet to find anyone who likes to explore like me.

[@sigurdtheblue]

Well I hate fast paced people too and usually explore elements of games that get ignored.

[@Alpha_Synergy]

It may be that others you have played with may also want to slow down and explore, but their experience tells them that no one wants to just explore in multi-player. Another thing could be that for many people, if you collaborate with another player, it's generally to get something done; therefore, you want to get it done as efficiently as possible, and thus they rush through what they might otherwise explore slowly.

[@FLEXCopMNPD]

I play the same way. I am slow and steady. Love to find stuff that developers hide around the world. I also take my time leveling up, getting used to the character and skills. Totally RP the crap out of most of the MMO's I play. Guildwars 2, ESO, Diablo, etc. So don't give up, their are plenty of us "weirdos" that like to play slow out there...lol

[@Lybido]

Join a roleplaying guild. Better odds.

[@uncleslappyscrappykitchen7822]

Yes, Agree. I don't like to rush. Rushing gets you killed.

[@SorieI]

I'm a loner because I feel becoming strong and skilled enough to solo content made for teams of people and overcoming challenges made for armies alone is one of the most fun and satisfying things you can do, and every time I progress with other players I feel unfulfilled knowing that I may not have been able to get so far without help

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Have you ever been in a group where people yell at you for reading the quest-giver's text? I have. A lot of times.That's one more reason why.

[@TheDaxter11]

call them assholes, tell them to piss off and wait for you, or be a tank, (says the guy who refuses to tank) because that way they HAVE to wait for you cause they need you

[@coldchillin8382]

Yup. Or watching the cenematic.

[@afielsch]

U can read the questtext (for the X time) when ur 5 mins of reading does not consume life-time of Y other ppl. Same for cinematics...

[@MonkeyJedi99]

@@afielsch Ah, the troll arrives... Do gud sp33d runz! klikk thru NOUW! Why you no optimized?

[@afielsch]

@@MonkeyJedi99 dont play with ppl then. If u do, dont waste ppls time. Is all I am saying... cheers.

[@trancer03]

Why i play alone? Easy, i have no friends. So what happens when they make a new WoW expansion is i can play for a few weeks and i have to quit again because that is when i run into endgame content that can only be done with organised groups. It is the constant having to prove you deserve a spot in a raid more than someone else that i don't want to get into anymore

[@johnnyd6953]

ForTheLoveOfMusicAndPeople also Sword Art Online

[@coldchillin8382]

So true. Even the lfg chat is very selective especially of gear. Well you can’t get the gear if you don’t run the dungeon.

[@Alastor999]

Nesko Pie it’s like a fucking job interview and after you get in, you have to deal with “performance reviews” like “your dps/healing/tanking isn’t keeping up” - fuck, I just want to unwind and have fun, not work a second job.

[@cintiapollock2486]

@@Alastor999 sooo true!

[@DieKao]

@@Alastor999 But you need to perform at a level that is on par with the type of content you're doing. It's like saying you don't want to join a soccer team, because people expect you to run, shot and put in effort. There are plenty of casual to hardcore guilds out there. Last guilds I've played in where all "semi-hardcore" which just meant that you had good players, but we still played with fun in mind and didn't raid 5 times a week.

[@Darthvegeta8000]

I prefer solo play myself. But I do love it when you essentially bump into other players and can help them out or vice versa. It adds to the realism. Never been into raids and the likes. I'm a narrative/exploration/customisation player.

[@toastandoatmeal7085]

I don’t have friends that play mmos and being in a guild makes me feel pressured go log in when I don’t want to.

[@yoanpolanco317]

I just make a guild all for myself...

[@coldchillin8382]

Yup or you get kicked.

[@FateburnXVII]

had a friend who didn't log in for 1 day due to you know, work, got kicked xD

[@jslaughter95]

@@FateburnXVII i'd like to know what social circles you're finding yourself in that not logging in for 1 day results in that because i've never encountered this, even in the most hardcore of circles

[@FateburnXVII]

@@jslaughter95 even i don't know, he told me he just got randomly invited xD

[@dekutree64]

Back when I played WoW it usually went like this: Join party -> do some quests -> go to bed -> go to work -> come home and open game -> party is now 10 levels ahead of me, guess I'm on my own again.

[@Tetsu9701]

Older MMORPGs like EQ & FFXI combated that by levels taking a long time to get through. I read somewhere the average time to get from 1 to 60 in Vanilla Wow was 360 hours. Hence why you could get left behind quite easily. FFXI took about 1950 hours to get from 1-75, plus you had sub-jobs you needed to back to level up to support so that made the world filled with lower levels.

[@Myth_or_Mystery76]

Geez. It's like it's a full time job or something.

[@_BirdOfGoodOmen]

@@Myth_or_Mystery76 and at that point, like, why even bother with other people at that point ! 🤣 I got stuff to do man I can't waste my life grinding levels like I used to!

[@Gh0zT-777]

Yeah bc most of them didnt have to work

[@Jayhawker2000]

This guy is apparently unaware that introversion and social anxiety are two different things. A person can be an introvert and not even be shy.

[@markkringle9144]

As my daughter put it, "I'm done with people-ing today. I can't people anymore."

[@YeOldeMachina]

True. I've always been rather charismatic and good in social situations. I just hate them.

[@patrickkinsella1132]

@@markkringle9144 my wife uses that term as well, describes it well.

[@rainofkhandaq6678]

Exactly. I can hold conversations very well, make people laugh, give great advice, etc. It's not even really that it's a chore to do so, but after a while the high energy starts to drain mine, and then I'll need to be alone to recharge. On top of that, I don't always feel the need to hear myself talk. Unfortunately "shy" is how my family labelled me growing up.

[@Marcustheseer]

sometimes an introvert is just an introvert but often i find there not actualy introverts they just think so diffirent from others they avoid complications and so they stay away from others,i am one of these people. with the right person i can realy talk and hold a good open conversation and i am a very open person i just dont like to talk to people who cant take a diffirent oppinion or who think youre weird because you dont think like them and beeing an anarchist that cant make it extra annoing because so manny people think its so normal to always obay and do as youre told,they forgot there is something called beeing free to follow youre own life and values and not those of others.

[@silversamurai0267]

Well, I don't know about everyone else, but *I* play MMOs alone because most MMO players are the type of person to walk straight passed the books in Skyrim, and then judge me for reading them.

[@harvbegal6868]

As someone who reads the books in Elder Scrolls games, I agree. Also everyone in MMOs seem to be min-max obsessive tools that complain at you because you are using the gun instead of the bow.

[@ModeratelyTrumpet]

I just hate when my teammates try to control how I play a game.

[@Paulmarcin]

Because they dont want u to carry them and they wanna be better.. sometimes

[@ModeratelyTrumpet]

@@Paulmarcin how would I be carrying them? Regardless, whether I'm being poductive or not, it never hurts to have more ppl in your clan.

[@deadfr0g]

@ModeratelyTrumpet Hey! Have you already watched the “cursed problems in game design” GDC talk? The exact thing you’re talking about is one of the classic issues of co-op games that he brings up.

[@mothurman]

Like every guild in albion online forces you to wear certain armor and weapon sets in battles

[@bujdosogyula3429]

@@mothurman Albion? Yeah true. Those guilds are so despotic and toxic that I quitted the whole game because of that. In 6 months I went through all solo content and the game can offer nothing more now except for those toxic guildmates.

[@SiLvErWaRe000]

Let's not forget that you get to start a new MMO you're excited by all of the abilities, and skills your character is going to try out. Then you're met with people who tell you that you can only play one way, and only use certain skills.

[@PyroRobby]

I am 62 years old and play only solo. Where I enjoy coop play with random strangers, I really don't want to interact other that casually, in a friendly manner, without commitment, and just incidentally. When forced to group, I get anxiety, self conscious about my skill level and performance and cannot wait until I can leave group. It is nice to be around others if the interaction is friendly, see what others are doing, what their avatar looks like, encounter random acts of kindness and feel like the world is full of nice people. I want nothing to do with toxic people or those that want to force others to be the subject of their hostility.

[@Keyce0013]

You might like Guild Wars 2, if you don't play it already.

[@smilosabercat]

Same age here and very similar feelings...

[@how2pick4name]

54 and "performance anxiety". It's more like, oh dear, if I don't have enough DPS or make a mistake, there come the flames. Same feelings, sometimes playing with others can be really nice and enjoyable. I played WoW basically solo from day one and it was pretty facilitating I must say. I gave away an epic kodo to a friend, nicely wrapped, 900GP (1200? long ago), that was insane then. Just from running around getting all valuable, sell able things from the open world and it was GREAT! :)

[@Dumbledoresarmy13]

I feel ya, bro. I'm not in a similar age bracket but at 26 I feel just enough older than the kiddos that have all that free time that it is stressful to keep up.

[@sijaycat1602]

Use to be in a guild and group a lot back when started to play Everquest II and then changed out to wow in 2008. But soooooo much drama, flaming. So just solo now, have much more fun. Not being stressed out, don't have to rush thru content. Love playing solo what can i say....no more performance anxiety... :)

[@CapitalTeeth]

I play alone because I, simply put, have no friends. Then when they hit me with the "You must have X amount of players in your party to...." I just quit the game.

[@KrazyFalcon]

Seriously, I don't get why some events are locked unless you have a group of players. I'm pretty sure the dev's already know that at least 30% of their playerbase prefer playing solo

[@flipzmadmax5494]

Same I have zero friends, and I do have a few friends who play online, but mostly were all grown up working etc. So nobody really plays together like we have in the past. I play so many different games all the time, it'll become hard to stick with one game. And I love MMOs and have no one to play with so I just play solo.

[@KrazyFalcon]

@@flipzmadmax5494 big relate man. I

[@caged0902]

Me too. I have friends but we all have jobs and lives. We cant just put everything on hold to play a game at the same time

[@PlazDreamweaver]

@@KrazyFalcon I just learned Ghost of Tsushima Legends dropped the forced pre-group up for the raid, so I can finally finish everything. Welp, until Iki Island releases in a week.

[@linkster5564]

Him: "for the longest time the answer was no" Me: sat there killing cows alone in RuneScape as a kid.

[@MmeHyraelle]

I do that with two f2p pures, one mage one def xd.

[@smailedog657]

Me: quadkiting hill giants in everquest. Made a rogue just to explore the hell out of the huge world then made a warrior just to blast through lower level dungeons and murder guards that annoyed my other characters.

[@mercy5004]

I currently play WoW "solo". My primary reasons for doing so (even back in vanilla) was that I am an "explorative" player. I play games not for the socialization aspect, or even for good combat (though I do enjoy both). I play primarily to wander the world, and explore and appreciate the game's smaller details. This form of gameplay is not conducive to social play. Would you like to spend hours of your day following someone around as they wander aimlessly around a map, sinking minutes into reading in-game books and looking around the interior of buildings that have nothing interactive inside them? Spend even more hours as they simply run up a coastline around entire continents, just to look into caves and see what kind of reefs and ground elements they hid under the water...avoiding combat and not seeing quests for days? Climbing trees and mountains by repeatedly jumping...not to reach any objective but simply to see how far you can go? I've played this game since it released....and until the Warlords expansion....that's exactly how I played. I was that level 20 running for my life in a level 60 zone, trailing aggroed enemies as I ran from certain death. I didn't need other players to take what I needed, what I *enjoyed* from the game. I simply wasn't interested in the other content. The world itself was simply enough for me. "Why not play a single-player game then?" They don't provide the same depth-of-world for me as WoW and the other MMOs I play do. They have limited maps, and even if it allows you to wander about (Dragon Age 1&2) you are restricted to certain paths, clearings, etc. You can't climb, wander into the woods beside you, or scale buildings. Single player games more so than MMO's are focused on delivering a story, a narrative, and you are simply the main character. While enjoyable...they can't deliver what I desire from a game. But Archeage, EQ 1&2, ESO, FF14, SWTOR, Tera, WoW, and more all have...can....and do. After Warlords though, my play style has changed to a more social aspect. My parents are the ones who introduced me to MMO's, and it's one of the few ways I can spend "time" with them, despite the distance and schedule conflicts between us. But even then we don't neccessarily play together, except in rare occasions. Its just a social forum for us. However, as I've gotten older, and lost opportunities for real-world socialization (graduting HS, College, moving into a more solitary job sphere), I do crave some socialization from the game. But I'm still not interested in intimate connections with other players. Toxicity towards female players, elitism in the more social content, and so forth all keep me away. However I do enjoy more silent social content. I like joining PVP raids (25-40 man groups v another 25-40 man group) and simply healing people, jumping aroudn the battlefield helping people and taking pride in my ability to keep these people alive long enough to crush the opposition. I don't talk during this, but instead follow the group doing whats needed, and taking delight in each objective that's cleared from our mutual teamwork...despite the lack of overt communication between us. The mere *presence* of the other player's avatars are enough to make the world feel alive. Playing MMO's solo simply provides a form of content (that developers may not realize that they've made) I cannot find elsewhere, consistently. The ability to simply wander a world, and feel just for one moment... That you're a physical part of this fantasy.

[@kwang-kv8bv]

Interesting points. I've started playing ff14 and while it has a deep story the actual world environment doesnt have the mystery you describe.

[@aussenseitermagazin]

I would love to explore. Much more than other aspects. But I don't think MMO's really give you anything to explore. Going into an empty, love deprived non-interactive interior is the Achilles heel of exploration. There are quite a few mechanics that you could add to all these games to make exploration deeper than "you arrive at position X,Y and here is a little detail that won't help you in any shape or form, but it makes you think of the level designer who put it here". If at all. I have yet to see meaningful objects or "details" when "exploring" a MMO. If there are "shrines" and "artefacts" and "hidden caves" they are a crucial part of the other gamestyles and will be explored sooner or later. You as an explorer do not get any mechanic around these. You are not the one who has to find them first, map them and then they are accessible for others. Something like that would make exploration much more interesting to me. Especially in games, that have a lot of procedual maps.

[@Lakius]

@@aussenseitermagazin I will never forget my disappointment one day in Tera where I climbed a big building and discovered the long long bridge leading up to another wasn't something I could stand on. Since the game had a fixed jump distance based on speed, I needed to combine walk speed, a crappy mount, and a good mount to cross some gaps on thin geometry like poles. It was a long journey to get there. I also stood on 100m tall pyramids with CUBE player collision geometry, which looked really off, but I made a floating campfire and laughed. If you like exploration to places that have been crafted but are not critical, I wholeheartedly recommend Guild Wars 2. There is a cave accessible from a pipe in the Plains of Ashford, and all that's in there is a stream, a patch of strawberries, a young child, and some ancient gears covered in moss. It's not used for anything, but GW2 has a place like that every other map, and jumping puzzles that reward you for keeping your eyes peeled for something amiss that might lead somewhere. The reward isn't great, but the journey is wonderful. And for me, procedural schmocedural. I'll take a crafted vision anyday, so long as it feels right. Required hidden things is often treated as a developmental tickbox sign of soulless game development for me. Put a bench in a forest with a rusty teapot next to it and I'll feel some life.

[@benrex7775]

@@Lakius It's not an MMO, but the Minecraft Middle earth server is very great for exploring and there are always a few people walking around. The scale is probably a bit smaller (I never played an MMO besides Project Gorgon for a few hours), but there is a lot of attention to detail, where stuff is already built. As long as you have Minecraft you can just go onto that server and walk around. If you want to do more (like building or group battles or whatever) then you need to be part of the community, but I think it should be doable as well.

[@GameArchon215]

Man, you’d LOOOVE Dark Souls! 😃

[@liwendiamond9223]

Answer from a mostly solo player : I like MMOs because having other people around feels like being part of world bigger than myself, its immersive and awesome when done well, but I stick mostly to solo play because I prefer to explore and enjoy that world in my own way, at my own time, doing things that aren't necessarily tuned for group play. If I want to go fishing for an afternoon for example, few people would be willing to tag along for such a 'boring' (I prefer relaxing) activity. I put on some music, or a 1-4 hours podcast I want to listen to, then I go fish in a video game and enjoy my time alone, knowing that the virtual collection of fish I bring back are useful items I can sell or use to advance the progression of my character in some other way latter down the line. But a big part of the reason I play MMOs mostly solo is the way they are designed. I've never seen MMO fishing that requires group play to be successful. Indeed, you can clear a lot of the content of such a video game on your own, and I believe its a good thing. It allows new players to learn the ropes of the game, such as how to play your class in combat, without hindering or slowing down more experienced players. Its worth noting that MMOs surpass most other games in the sheer amount activities and systems one needs to learn to claim a full understanding of the game's content. The last MMO I played was Final Fantasy 14. Most of the 100 or so hours I spent in that game was dedicated to being initiated to the numerous systems and activities contained therein. From the combat, crafting, flexible and complex class system, to running dungeons and various side activities and mini games which could be considered whole games of their own, FF14 is wonderfully complex, but also filled to the brim with content designed for solo play. New players tend to dedicate more time to solo activities than veteran players, that is a factual, observable trend. It helps that most of the endgame in an MMO is group play oriented, while most of its initial content is solo play oriented. Since most people don't stick around with any given game to reach an MMO's endgame, you'll see a lot of newbie solo players running around who eventually drop off. They get bored of the MMO "before it got good", or another game showed up to grab their attention, or, if you're me, you got a nasty case of early carpal tunnel syndrome and you're forced to stop playing any games for several months in order to more or less recover... In order to reach the point where you are consistently playing in groups, both because you want and feel ready to, and because the game's balance warrants it, you need a level of dedication and passion for that exact game that most people won't ever share with you, hence why an MMO's hardcore population always tappers off to a slim minority of its entire playerbase. And those are the only ones whom I'd say spent more time playing in groups than solo. As for the people who play MMOs entirely alone and don't want to ever have to deal with other players, here's my brief take on them : 1.They're there for the game, not the people. Final Fantasy, for example, is a beloved franchise full of charm, nostalgia and good compelling gameplay mechanics. And its mostly a single player franchise. Some players are willing to try the MMO version just for the sake of it being a Final Fantasy game. Same goes for WoW, or Star Wars, or The Elder Scrolls, or any big name franchise you can think of. 2. They got peer pressured to try the game and stuck around long enough to enjoy it, but still won't group with people because introverts are a thing. Dealing with people can be exhausting, and these people really just want to relax with some alone time. They do it in an MMO, of all places, out of habit. 3. They just flat out don't like people. And who can blame them? A lot of them are assholes. So why don't they stick to single player games? Because they've cleared all of them, as one who doesn't spend time socializing is bound to do, and the MMO offers hundreds of hours of solo content for them to chew on despite their aversion for social interactions. Okay, so that's why I think some people stick to solo play in MMOs, now to listen to the video and see what they had to say about it.

[@jcstorm8796]

Very well said. I totally agree.

[@GaoAsaurusG]

I have absolutely no problem with folks who want to play solo in an MMO. Where I start to have a problem is when some of these folks start demanding a MMO ( or MMOs in general ) be changed to cater to their play-style. This has happened before with Open World PVP MMOs. Constant demands by a very vocal minority to restrict other player's ability to PVP in the Open World so that THEY could PVE unmolested ... in a MMO they knew before buying/choosing to play had Open World PVP...saw Devs doing just that, much to the detriment of these games.

[@miniwizard]

Very much this. I enjoy playing to explore the world and all the created content in my own time, and at my own pace. I can't think recall a single time in which a group I have joined (especially when forced to) where the rest of the group or raid hasn't simply rushed on down the pretty-much optimal path at top speed just to rush through it to the various quest markers and any involved bosses. There is simply no place for someone like myself who would quite happily like to explore the dead-ends, read the in-game lore, stop and gaze at odd details creatively added by the level designers and artists, wait and observe what certain NPCs might be doing, or stop for a small spot of fishing in the underground pond to see what might be caught there... the list goes on. I have never had qualms with waiting until I was over-levelled to return to a dungeon to solo it just for the fun of exploring it. In WoW, this is precisely what I did for the almost all the instances. The loot itself didn't matter to me, just simply being able to explore the instance at my own pace and enjoy the experience and story surrounding it. I am one of those players having happily contributed a dozen or so characters to the armoury total of aforementioned level 70+ without any raid/pvp gear etc. SWTOR had a few flashpoints that were really enjoyable to be able to enjoy solo (with AI providing support) I just wish more of them had had this option - rather than just the few main story ones. However, any time I am refused entry into an instance simply because I am not in a group, or any time a puzzle requires extra people to simultaneously activate switches, the frustration quickly destroys the enjoyment I sought from playing the game - especially if 99.9% of the players on that server completed that portion a long time ago. (A couple of SWTORs holocrons spring to mind here) Commitment is also another part of it. There are so many great games out there, and not enough time to be able to play all of them with commitable regularity. It kind of depends on your mood as to what type of game you want to escape into and relax with. Having to commit this time to people you haven't actually met just for the sake of running the same raid dungeon over and over again for a chance at a particular loot drop just never interested me, and neither does any PvP type action. Choosing to play solo does not mean you should be relegated to 'offline' single player games. There are other aspects to an online multiplayer world - global (or regional) chat, the economy, resource gathering and crafting to supply the economy, and so on. A good example of this is EVE, where solo players and 'carebears' may simply enjoy mining and industry. Churning out loads of ships and equipment ready for the PvPers to easily purchase so that they too can get on with playing the game how they enjoy it without needing to grind the stuff themselves. I also keenly enjoyed playing the markets in WoWs auctionhouse, EVE's marketplace and even on SWTORs GTN. Not just that, but all the solo-questers pad out the world, breathing life into it while everyone else either stands around outside the guildhall/bank/trade hub or jumps up and down outside the instance entry waiting for the rest of their party to turn up. Those that play MMOs for the group content all end up hanging around in a few hot-spots. Those that play alone fill out the rest of the world. Any time an MMO forces me in some way to join a group or 'add a random stranger as a friend', the game very quickly either loses me completely, or at very least makes me very uninterested in wanting to explore the rest of the later-game content. While for many, the primary goal might simply be rushing to the all the end-game competitive content, for me it is the journey not the destination that I find far more interesting.

[@Kaylakaze]

Odd that you'd mention FF14 being solo friendly since it FORCES you to group with people fitting certain roles in order to do dungeons to continue the story. I had to change from a ranger to a white mage for dungeons just so I wouldn't have to wait an hour to do a dungeon (which was then blitzed through so I don't even know what happened in those dungeons, just that I had to keep the tank healed).

[@Kaylakaze]

@@GaoAsaurusG That's actually usually a VERY large majority that wants the PVP restricted, not a vocal minority. There's a reason PVP games fail or have very small, niche player bases. There's a reason UO had to split the world back in the day, because if they hadn't, the game would have been dead.

[@Quicksilver_Cookie]

Introverts aren't shy, or "socially awkward"(idiotic definition), or afraid, or even loners, none of that stuff. Introverts just have reduced need for social interactions. It's all there is to it. Most introverts I know, and certainly not myself don't hate people, or dislike being in social situations. It's just you need way less to satisfy the herd itch in your brain. An hour a day? Maybe less, is enough to feel like you are not lonely anymore. Last thing I want when I come home after seeing people all day at work is to do the same in my escapism hobby. I just don't feel like it would be useful to me anymore. It's excess. Why play an MMO then? Well, why take a walk in the street if you don't plan to chat with any of the strangers? Same reason.

[@rodcon75025]

An Extrovert is able to recharge or even be energized by being with others where the opposite is true of an introvert.

[@namelesswanderer9315]

We need videos teaching extroverts how to be quiet for a while and relax.

[@chrishill601]

Personally, I'm introverted, *as well as* often being anti-social. But even for me, those are two different states. And usually, if I'm feeling anti-social, it's because I've had far too much social interaction already. Working retail/ food service industry will do that fast, but even just spending a few days where I hung out with different friends, I'll want to not see anybody, even my cat, for hours or days afterwards. I've rarely played any MMOs, but every now and then one will come out that looks enough like something I'd like that I give it a try. I usually end up doing one or two missions with one or two other people, but yeah, that's all I do with someone else. I just solo'd the rest, because I was there for the mechanics, not the people.

[@ZedAmadeus]

I get the annoyance, me being an introvert also, but the meaning of what he was saying still carries about shy and or anti-social players. This is kind of semantics.

[@HalcyonDaze33]

As an extrovert, I appreciate your point of view. A game that fails to engage people with divergent interests is poorly written. Shoehorning players into roles isn't a good way to retain them.

[@azurelion6722]

Life is an MMO, and I still prefer to play alone.

[@evilseedsgrownaturally1588]

Robert Williams ... As evidenced by you actively reaching out here to other people thru a social media, while also consuming their uploads. Quite the epic solo adventurer we’ve got here, yes?

[@CroneLife1]

@@evilseedsgrownaturally1588 , yes, he is. Social media allows him to connect or disconnect at his choice. He determines how much input he absorbs by using social media and the choices that being online provides - choices he isn't granted in more real-life circumstances. You didn't think that one through very well, did you...

[@uhhhhyourmom]

Evil Seeds Grow Naturally Why are you so triggered by his comment?

[@josephjuanaliagavalenzuela2345]

yea, the graphics are nuts, but the gameplay has been sucking for.. as long as I remember, not sure why I keep playing tho.

[@MrKezzerdrix]

@@uhhhhyourmom He is mad that only his parents want to group with him.

[@blazingsol2287]

If the game said I’m a chosen one, then I gonna be only one damn it

[@Szobiz]

lol true

[@TonyTheTGR]

Yeah. Don't lie about this shit. "Many adventurers have tried and died" is honest and compelling enough. None of this "chosen One" shit.

[@feywinterfox9630]

I don't mind games where you are the Chosen one, I just don't get why others get upset when people in the game are not kissing your butt or treating you like a god cause you are the chosen one. I mean if you where the Chosen One, you are nine out of ten gonna be the person no one knows nor cares about, let long knowing what you did.

[@dalemurray4083]

BTW you're one of the self absorbed antisocial a-holes the rest of us can't stand trying to play with.

[@MichaelWilliams-fd5ww]

I end up feeling like the 'failed one...'...

[@Opaqu.e]

Not quite an MMO, but I've got nearly 400 hours on Warframe playing almost exclusively solo. I like to be immersed in the gameplay and world and take my time in the levels. Having to conform to an efficiency meta, or being carried through levels at a breakneck pace by more powerful players, are both unattractive options to me. Playing cooperatively in these kinds of games comes with an expectation of playing "correctly", which isn't the way that a lot of people want to experience these games.

[@Ch4pp13]

What multiplayer gets you in Warframe is usually something easy goes by quicker, and getting to choose a reward from the Void relics. Apart from that, it's there... and not really enforced at all...

[@johanninferus4845]

>2k hours in Warframe and... Yeah. Even with a non-meta build, most missions end up being a race to the extraction point, or even worse, you get the meta-MLG player with Saryn and the Ignis Wraith killing everything before you even see an enemy. Still, can be fun, but most of the time it ends up being just too much of a rush for me.

[@redapproves1330]

When Warframe first came out I used to spend hours in the Void, per mission, just to explore and find secrets. This was before bullet jump so a lot of trials doing wall runs

[@violetsnow804]

This exact experience actually really turned me off of Warframe the few times I tried it. I wanted to take my time and explore the levels, I particularly liked playing in a more stealthy manner, and then any time I'd party up it would just be people rushing through the game as if they were trying to get a speedrun.

[@Ch4pp13]

@@violetsnow804 The only time I play Warframe's multiplayer is during Relic runs, since you get a bigger choice of rewards. That's literally it. And with how the gameplay is, it feels like it's gonna stay that way, and should stay that way. Because when you're tasked with defending a point, the player who brings along a defense centered frame like Gara is gonna trivialize the experience, rendering healers like Trinity pretty much useless.

[@ironrose6]

I often hide my online status because even when my friends are online (whether I made them online or irl), I don't like feeling like I'm on a schedule.

[@elete0447]

Well since everyone else is sharing I might as well... for me it's because I like to explore and experience at my own pace. The second I group with others it changes to go with their pace... which is usually as fast as possible. To use warcraft as an example, I will never group with others to go questing as I like to read all the text and give the quest giver a voice while immersing myself into my own character, giving them their own personality, backstory etc. That becomes harder the second other players are thrown into the mix which is why I've given up on dungeon quests as if I try to read it and immerse myself I lag behind and get chewed out by the others. I dunno why I've never joined a guild though, most of my experience with it is with bots randomly inviting me or someone I've never met or played with before getting butthurt over me rejecting their invite.

[@mismismism]

This, I actually tried to get into community stuff for once in FF14 cuz that community is surprisingly nice and helpful, but then you queue up dungeon parties and realize, it's speed run culture and they will literally leave you behind and get you locked out of boss rooms, even if you've never played a dungeon and tell them, and it kills the desire to ever play that content. It's just as bad as toxicity. Solo is the way to go for me.

[@Demonchilde1]

This

[@furyberserk]

In warframe, you can go full stealth, but groups will sonic speed bullet jump as the slash, shoot, and spam powers.

[@omgilovesteak6484]

yeah, people wanna go FAST FAST FAST! im like why the rush... just to get to end game where you have to do the same things over and over?

[@Lofwyr]

Good points, sometimes you just wanna do stuff at your own pace. And i always loathed people randomly sending guild invites.

[@Stef2050]

I usually prefer to play these games alone cause I like experiencing things at my own pace and I feel like I would just bring other people down cause I'm not usually the best at some of these games. I usually only play games with other people after I have a good understanding of the mechanics so I can help people who are probably just starting out.

[@Tell_It_Right]

Why? 1- too many a-holes 2- too many squeakers 3- too many 18hr a day players

[@cherokeehernandez9748]

I wish I didn’t she. A squeaky voice

[@Ailwynn]

I'm curious. How does one who plays many hours per day prevent you from playing with others?

[@CodenamePrince]

A simple person with clear and straight forward points. Awesome.

[@cherokeehernandez9748]

Ailwynn avoid the turds and play like normal

[@archerlangfield8189]

@@Ailwynn they tend to be obnoxious know it alls who comment on every single way you play or do something.

[@LordFoxxyFoxington]

Because dealing with other people can sometimes be immensely trying.

[@shaqman813]

Sometimes? They often are in my experience.

[@forresthunt9573]

When I play an MMORPG, I'm playing for the "RPG" part, not the "MMO" part.

[@Victor-sk8by]

What he said

[@kharjo8099]

Hmm I also agree with this...

[@Ryuujinv01]

If you haven't tried it I'd categorize FF14 as one of the best single player experiences I've had in the last few years. It's also pretty perfectly optimized for game pads. Their story telling is leagues above every other mmo.

[@seanarnold2808]

Agreed! Was waiting for this lol. I enjoy the vastness and freedom many MMOs provide, but I don't want anyone rushing me through or interrupting my thoughts when I am trying to focus on the quests.

[@seanarnold2808]

@@Ryuujinv01 I agree you can solo much of FF14.… and I do! But it is also the only MMO where I frequently interact with others. Just so others aren't caught off guard, the game does force you to group up with others for dungeon content when playing through the main story. Many do not. BUT, it is an incredible game with amazing storytelling!

[@roberttaylor7423]

"Hell is other people" - Sartre

[@pfzht]

No Exit

[@xmarksthespot1372]

Yes.

[@Marconel100]

I like playing alone, and randomly running into strangers in the world, that's nice..

[@YukihyoShiraki]

"Be like playing an FPS game without picking up a gun" Fondly remembers running around in mw2 with riot sheild and C4, ah those were the days

[@TheStowAway594]

This is exactly why I don't play MMO's. 1. The scheduling: Im not insane yet I'm not going to schedule when I play a game, that seems like work. 2. The huge beginners hurdle: it takes weeks to learn how to play games like that, let alone being good at them. 3. The Players: There are a lot of awesome people playing these games, but there's also a lot of scumbags, that just want to exploit, steal, grief other players especially new ones. 4. The grind: playing one game for years is not for me. I just don't have that kind of time, or to be honest the dedication to keep playing that when there's a million single player games I want to play. 5. Some of the tactics used in certain MMO's to keep players "paying" or playing I don't agree with.

[@DaggerPrince]

yeah man

[@Sanchez9531]

you should try World of Warcraft. it's also super new-player friendly nowadays. i can imagine what you're saying is true in 2005-2010 MMORPG times. a lot of women play WoW too and even stream on twitch.

[@jayeisenhardt1337]

Well they don't even know how to make MMORPGs that is the problem. That is why so many bounce around trying to find one that is good but just sticking there till the next because it might be good. They love it for their friend and story but not many worlds have been made just theme parks. #1 would be 24/7 playtime as the world never stops moving only you do. So if you are a nolifer maybe you might make it to the top. That should be standard. #2 well yeah huge hurdles are actually tiny because how long you will be playing in that world. #3 Players are the same as our world and laws, societies and culture evolve around those groups. Scumbags? Well join the Cops that enforced order on the server. If nobody willing to fight against what they think is wrong well wrong becomes the order. That is the point of a world. #4 yeah grind because it's endless. You can't ever 'finish' the game. How do you plan to grind to infinity? #5 pay to win, ya got whales that pay for the game for you which might be part of why it's f2p, but scams many people hate those and fanboys will protect outta love for the game.

[@Oddity00]

@@jayeisenhardt1337 Oh, yeah, just choose to become an in-game police officer who can arrest players somehow...

[@theworldweknow3742]

yea i play mmos alot, but have a real life too and only play when i'm free. scheduling for raids is just not a top priority for me. wish gw2 had some sort of lfr like wow has.

[@kusog3]

I think there's a certain charm into "soloing" challenges that usually needs a group of people to overcome.

[@kusog3]

and I can totally relate with Loner #9 xD

[@Sp1derFingers]

If you had to fully rely on your team to do anything then that really takes away from your own identity of "self". So having solo content is really important, but I think it has really eclipsed the team/coordination/difficulty aspect. In a lot of cases soloing isn't even challenging and I think that devalues it in general.

[@kusog3]

I think the problem with MMO stems in balancing content that requires many players and content that requires different players.

[@devincory9695]

Yeah, who says I need at least four people to clear that dungeon? With careful strats and the right approach I bet I can do it all by myself! Tera used to be great for this until they literally changed everything.

[@chrisreay8141]

Some of my best WoW memories are tackling the group bosses solo. Hours of kiting and DOT spells. Good times

[@ceridwenaeradwr8105]

I have social anxiety. I love the sprawling nature of MMORPGS, but I really struggle to get past my fears. Please, if you can, keep in mind the people who LOVE your game, but have panic attacks when forced into grouping up :( We're not weirdos or psychos, and Social Anxiety is a very common form of anxiety.

[@Vorance]

My excuse is crippling social anxiety. People can be complete pricks and I don't like being yelled at for when I mess up because I know it will eventually happen (not in a self sabotage type of way but my internet has 2-4 second lag spikes) and then all the sudden I'm the entire problem and no one is defending me. I would rather play alone and take on harder challenges and maybe miss out on a quest rather than join in.

[@RawLu.]

I’ve been fighting this 'Mindset' for decades now starting with Everquest right to today with ESO & everything in between, all of which I Preferred to Solo. just because a game is 'online'? why does that seemingly mean you Must Group? you Must Be Social? its BS & I've known this for decades...

[@archerlangfield8189]

Same

[@TheDaxter11]

while i dont have crippling social anxiety this is why i refuse to tank or heal, cause ive seen the shit they can get for messing up and i am NOT about to have twats give me that same shit

[@edisonyang3658]

I play games so I don't have to socialize with people.

[@Nolsie]

The people who play Habbo hotel by themselves are a terrifying true neutral energy

[@arnau7231]

i did that cause i just liked to build stuff.

[@eddieramirez8292]

I'm listening to this in the background while I'm working and have to keep stepping away for stretches of time. Does he ever mention not wanting to deal with elitists?

[@Wearywastrel]

No, no he doesn't...

[@ekki1993]

He kinda, tangentially. "The vacationer" is kinda the not hardcore player, but it assumes it's a temporal state of mind. Then again, it sounds like a talk which just assumes you should get as many people as possible into the hardcore level of play, while only accepting the non-hardcore playstyle for people doing something else or being tired. It speaks badly of the developer and is often reflected in games that are a shitty grind to the endgame, where the "fun part" is (even though you might not find it fun because it's often way different from the grind).

[@ericnewcomb9939]

Or the script kiddies or the asshats that sit at respawn points waiting to kill new players as soon as they log in? No. I don't recall any mention of those people.

[@clutch1141]

Some people don't have rl friends that game and don't like dealing with people they don't know, voice chat and guys always laughing and trying to make jokes and rage players.

[@Ysylla5]

I completely agree with this. As a former hardcore player i grouped with RL friends during that time since we have grown apart I am now a casual player because I don't have the anchor of the rl friends to group with.

[@mfdad1119]

Exactly. I've never had a real life friend that enjoys MMOs. Which is fine with me but I also find it hard to clique with gamers for the most part.

[@WastedTalent83]

play games that are not online , or that are solo player than.. there are many.

[@clutch1141]

@@WastedTalent83 Sure, I love fallout, bioshock, civ, alien isolation, etc but I also like WoW, gta, etc., and I do occasionally play with people but it's a dose thing.

[@alniseschrenkek6348]

" laughing and trying to make jokes" *THAT FUCKING SCUMBAGS!*

[@dockerydesigns]

So this sounds weird, but I want to play what I want to play, when I want to play it. MMO can be fun, so I want to play. I don't want to be hassled with things I don't want: forced to join a guild to go farther, leaving game play to raid when I didn't sign on to do that, etc. Is a waste of time. I want to play... to play the game. Forcing to wait or play someone else's game the way THEY want is not fun. Better to be on your own. If something is too great to do alone, its time to evaluate if the "fun" is worth the "lack of fun"

[@schizoidfingers4088]

39:25 "But making a massively single player game isn't the answer". How would a game that would appeal to around 50% of the gaming audience, which is introverts, be a bad idea? It seems like giving them the ability to put the social stuff on the back burner or opt out would be a good idea

[@MforMovesets]

Because other players are a-holes. *video ends*

[@johannesdekoning3765]

Find 20 people who agree and you just found yourself a group. You, MforMovesets, found 101 already!

[@invader218]

Johannes De Koning but are they playing the same game?

[@johannesdekoning3765]

Daniel Griego Probably not, maybe they should? :O

[@invader218]

Johannes De Koning ain't nobody got money for that.

[@Citadel_Of_My_Thoughts]

J Colton I play games to have fun. You don't sound like much fun. Also, you proved MforMovesets point.

[@Srelathon]

I would LOVE to play MMO's with like a group of friends. But I barely have any friends, and the ones I do have never play the same games as I do.

[@confusedkemono]

story of my life

[@AWanderingSwordsman]

Being in an MMO is already massively multiplayer. The selling point is NOT just raids. Existing in a fictional living breathing world populated by other humans IS the selling point. Not sure why at some point that switched over to small instanced group content of 40 ish or less people. I mean lets be honest, true end game experience in every MMO is afking in town 99% of the time and actually playing the game briefly upon new content patch before going back to afking.

[@teosto1384]

Exactly. MMO's with other people are creating an immersion of a living world, just like you going to your local city center. You see other people doing their stuff there and don't have to interact or play with all of them. I believe what people are looking for in an MMO is kind of a simulation of a real world, where other people do their stuff and you get to do yours. Occasionally if you meet the same person in different places around the town you may become friends and start actually doing stuff with them. In other words, people like to play their MMO's like they play their real world. It's very strange that not many game developers have gotten a grasp of that.

[@freecomkcf]

_Not sure why at some point that switched over to small instanced group content of 40 ish or less people._ i know this comment was from like a year ago but... is this rhetorical? MMO has been about endgames at the exclusion of everyone else, because the raid "haves" (versus the "have nots") usually have the pay-to-win money to keep up with the Joneses (or be the first Joneses, if it comes down to that). the AAA gaming space has been trying to copy China for years with the rampant success of ZT Online way back in 2007, which was the prototypical example of pay-to-win lootboxes -- loot only came from real money lootboxes, and you needed to start opening them as soon as the tutorial. the peer pressure of being left out of the "haves" is an added bonus to potential profits. in fact, ZT Online didn't even bother with the middleman and actively screwed with game balance when things were getting too peaceful (it was a clan-based pvp game) to get people to start paying up again. web.archive.org/web/20191119164156/www.danwei.org/electronic_games/gambling_your_life_away_in_zt.php

[@Liquid-yj1ok]

@@freecomkcf They're talking about design that used to be the norm. Like EQ era. Less game, more world. Less theme park, more sandbox. Slower progression, more angular/horizontal, more social design etc. And before cash shops. Endgame still important but, not the core of the overall experience.

[@MM3Soapgoblin]

@@Liquid-yj1ok And this is the reason more people still play UO than a lot of more current big name titles. Personally I liked the economy part of games like that. I liked being a tailor in UO and buying high end hide of a fighter or ranger and turning it around into armor to sell. Played solo 99% of the time but I couldn't have played solo without the other players. It's the other players that allowed me to play solo.

[@Morkislair]

Simple answer from a loner: I don't really like playing with other people and don't see the point of PvP. Nothing gets me more disinterested in a game than the multiplayer tag. But some really special titles (like Warframe & Monster Hunter) interested me enough to play despite the multiplayer elements. That's the important word: despite.

[@ericnewcomb9939]

This. Very much this. I do sometime enjoy PVP in certain games, but what puts me off is that there's little room for individual play style in PVP. FOr example, I prefer stealth characters and snipers. That almost never works in PVP, because every PVP game is designed so that the only way to play is keep running and gunning. Frankly it's just plain boring to me. I'd far rather adventure alone where I can play in the style that suits me best. Now, give me a PVP game in which I can use the skills I'm best at and I'll be all up in that shit.

[@teeeldubbs]

We all lift, IN PARALLEL

[@HuslWusl]

Monster Hunter world and Borderlands (all of them) are amazing games. They have a great multiplayer aspect to them and it certainly makes the game more fun if you can play with friends, but grinding is something you can't really do with friends. In MHW you can grind with friends but they might need some material you don't need and vice versa so it wastes time if both of you grind for both of your needs. In BL grinding equipment means reloading the game which, done with a friend, would mean you have to quit, reload, invite your friend and wait for them to join. Playing alone, you can skip 50% of that effort and just grind while maybe chatting with your friend. Also I recommend Dark Souls as a singleplayer but with a great co-op and PvP experience.

[@bitchface235]

what do you mean you don't see the point of PVP??? extrapolate?

[@SupahTrunks7]

Killing other players isn't fun for everyone. And PvP is where a LOT of the assholes go so it forces you to encounter them. In many games PvP doesn't progress the story so if the story is what you play for them it's kinda irrelevant other than as a threat to your own enjoyment should you end up in PvP and get slaughtered by op builds, spawn killers, etc.

[@aelfycarcini3992]

Another thing I like about MMORPGs is fighting, fighting monsters and grinding... but also suddenly finding idyllic places just absorbing myself in the environment, having a moment of relaxation and feeling that I really live in that world. I mean, who the hell is going to feel comfortable in a world where you fight at ease for an hour and then another hour, and then another hour, non-stop. It's just not natural. We need spaces of tranquility that make the contrast and allow us to rest to stay connected for longer. Unless of course the intention of the game is a brief and super intense interaction... and then plug out.

[@darkwatershadow]

I almost exclusively play MMOs solo because the marjority of the types of games I like to play are single player games. I have a handful of friends who I game with, but they're mostly like me, so finding a multiplayer game we all want to play is fairly rare. City of Heroes was my introduction to MMOs, and this guy's right, it's a very solo friendly game. My friends played it too, but I bought in after the Villains expansion so all my characters were unable to play blue side until many years later when they gave you the ability to switch back and forth so most of the time I played solo. I missed a lot of end game content that required lots of cordination and people, but I didn't care. I had fun designing characters, leveling them up, kitting out their IO sets, and farming infamy for my superbase. It was fun playing with my friends, but I loved that I could enjoy the game by myself without needing anyone else to be online. These days I work nights, so being able to play solo is very important for me. I understand why people group up and join guilds in MMOs, I made a few friends in CoX before it closed down too, but solo play is super important. If you can only play when other people are on it's too restrictive. You can always join a pug but it's usually more fun to go at your own pace and the social interaction to get things rolling can be exhausting when you just want to log in and play for a few hours. Being able to solo play in an MMO is an absolute must for me to even consider picking the game up in the first place. Also, I want to be somewhat competent at the game before I start playing with other people and there's no safety net in solo play. It makes shifting to group play a little tricky since you have to get used to buffs and similar, but it gives you a better understanding of when you're in danger and how to stay alive. At least, that's my take from my own personal experience.

[@Friendly_Gamer_Mom]

I miss CoX ...but I am in contact with the friends I made there.

[@luketfer]

Good news for you both if you're still around, it's back, Homecoming server is currently up and running, look it up.

[@NOMNOM81]

Yeah I never like the excuse people use to trash the loners "Its an MMO you're not supposed to be alone".. Some people like doing stuff alone, or with 1-2 friends. Some people don't have the time waiting around for others join.. This doesn't mean they don't love the game and world, or ONLY like to play alone.. They will play with others and have fun in content, and they love seeing the world populated with other players, and will help.

[@korvincarry3268]

I find loners know way more about the game and immerse themselves into the world more than multi-players. I mean, come on, im one myself, and i read everything. I watch the cutscenes. Everyone ive played with skips everything, gets on their phone in unskippable things, and complains if neither of those work.

[@FateburnXVII]

@@korvincarry3268 "PRESS SKIP!!!!!111!!1!!!1"

[@korvincarry3268]

@@FateburnXVII or they skip so you think you can get a lil breather, answer a text if youve already seen the cutscene, etc. Then all of a sudden youre back in the action, not ready for it, and lagging behind

[@FrostRose]

The game that his MMO was named after was a critically acclaimed cult classic single player only game, and he wonders why people ask if they can play his game solo. Perhaps he should ask why his game is full of mechanics that force grouping instead?

[@tailgunner2]

For the same reason in any kindergarten class, there is always the one or two children that play in a corner with the legos: They can amuse themselves.

[@boredin]

A very interesting and good discourse. I´m a solo player, me reasons are that i´m tired of having to take care and being thinking about what other people want to do, or want me to do. I´ve lived all my live ( nearly 60 years ) allways with a lot of people, lot of friends, was over decades a MC Biker, have survived managing a family, runned my own buissness, and so on. So now, at least in my digital life, i just want to do exactly what i want, and doing it by myself, without having to make compromisses or anything else with others, just on my own run. The only multi-games i play sometimes are pvp shooters... ;)

[@BungieStudios]

One thing I've noticed in California is that people in the city are very unsocial compared to those outside the city. I visited Arizona, Missouri, and smaller parts of Texas. Everyone is sociable. Everyone it seems comfortable talking with one another. It was a culture shock to me.

[@burningflag3679]

Thank you, the genre isn't (MCO) Massive Co-operative Online: rpg or game. Its (MMO) and all that says is other people playing in the same game world. I mean we don't rely on other people to do everything in the MMO that is real life.

[@NotTheWheel]

I am about half of those categories but if I might add an additional one... A challenge seeking solo player... I like killing elites and dungeon bosses by myself.. just to see if I can.

[@CrateringGod]

I like playing alone because I can enjoy content at my own pace. I can check out the sights in the dungeon, I can watch the cutscenes, I can listen to the boss dialogue. I can also play however I want - perhaps a suboptimal class that I enjoy the lore flavor of, or dressed in suboptimal gear. Basically, I can prioritize my own enjoynment, without having to consider anyone else.

[@NotClosedMinded]

I'm a hermit and it extends to my online activity.

[@KowashiHitori]

Mainly I have two reasons... I want to play at my own pace and I don't want to be forced to a schedule. It feels like a job if you are forced to play for X hours on Y days of the week and being older, I tend to take more time at things... I don't want to rush and I don't have the twitch skills of a teenager.

[@Rheyndraziel]

When I played alone , I wanted to become strong by my own merits , by my strength and determination , In the future I could even join others when I was not dead weight

[@ekki1993]

The talk, while interesting, comes off as a developer who is a hardcore player that doesn't understand its non-hardcore audience. He just assumes you should get as many people as possible into the hardcore level of play, while only accepting the non-hardcore playstyle for people doing something else or being tired (e.g. the vacationer, the guy playing on a break during work). If you're going to explain solo players, you can't ignore non-hardcore players. Almost all built-in social interactions are practically designed around hardcore playstyle, which alienates a good part of your "social" audience. It speaks badly of the developer and is often reflected in games that are a shitty grind to the endgame, where the "fun part" is (even though you might not find it fun because it's often way different from the grind). This kind of explanations don't help. Also he grossly misuses the term introvert.

[@ericnewcomb9939]

I agree, except for the apparent implication that a solo player cannot be a "hard-core" gamer. Apologies if I've misunderstood your point. I think it's more than possible, perhaps even likely, to be a solo or introverted player and still be a "hard-core" gamer. Having happily put over a thousand hours into Skyrim without ever seeing another player, hundreds of hours into Fallout 4 without ever engaging anything that wasn't an NPC even when playing online and more recently avoiding people in RD2, I suggest that "hard-core" has nothing to do with social interaction. It's more about gaming and less about the other players. I'd even go so far as to suggest that solo play can be even more "hard-core" than social gaming. Maybe we're using the term "hard-core" differently? Regardless, taking on a four-person dungeon alone and coming out alive seems far more hard-core to me than doing a speed run through that same dungeon with a team.

[@ekki1993]

@@ericnewcomb9939 Yeah, sure, I wasn't saying that hardcore players can't be solo gamers. Actually, I agree that some of the most hardcore players end up being the solo players. I was focusing on solo-casual players because it's the group that's mostly ignored and ends up without a workaround. >Social-hardcore is the group most appealed to. >Social-casual players can enjoy the features intended for social-hardcore players. >Solo-hardcore players can often force themselves to the endgame of any game, which makes even some social-oriented games still appealing to them. The problem of the video is that, in speaking about features for solo players, it neglects solo-casual players and mostly talks about features that would mostly attract solo-hardcore players. I'm not saying it's wrong to appeal to that group. It's pretty much an objective improvement to do so. The problem is the bunch of generalizations (about solo players) and straight up lies (about introverts) that end up reinforcing the boring design wisdom that's the really big problem for MMOs.

[@isweartofuckinggod]

I wish I could bookmark a comment. This is extremely interesting and I want to remember it.

[@aussenseitermagazin]

You got it!

[@ArseneGray]

I studied Game Design, and I actually noticed this in GW2, that game did that perfectly. It allowed you to team up dynamiccaly without forcing you to party up. Being in the same area as others alone was enough to be considered a team, rewards were unique to each player, hence there were no fights on loot. Tagging enemies was extremely easy to do. All systems were designed around making the game as solo friendly as possible. Then the hardcore audience complained and they introduced raids which could only be done with premade parties who trained like maniacs. I quit the game shortly after that.

[@robertthompson5701]

I play MMO's almost exclusively by myself simply because I can't stand the toxic populations of 99% of MMO's.

[@Balloonbot]

Really? MMO's tend to be fine, i've played a few - most people are reasonable. Some are even helpful. You probably PvP a lot i assume.

[@d-dh2143]

>toxic lol

[@paulallen8304]

Any game that is an MMO is almost certainly one you have to put a lot of time in to beat.... and who has time? Kids and Teenagers. Who are the most annoying, and less filtered? Kids and Teenagers. As someone with a low tolerance of noise, I will not play with kids or teenagers. (Or man children but that is for another discussion).

[@peanutandjessysmith6472]

Different definitions of toxicity I imagine. I want to say I hate the sjw presence in most MMOs but the tightest guild I've ever been in was run by a Trump hating gay man. Dude truly appreciated people who contributed, I mailed him my entire wallet when I quit the game and it wasn't chump change, I knew how to work the market.

[@Balloonbot]

The most toxic people are often just adults of probably early twenties upwards. Who have a really developed sense of pride, and feel their years of experience grant them a certain authority. Age isn't the factor, its the persons self preservation, and what they're willing to do/say to keep their flimsy ego in tact, this can happen at any point in your adult life.

[@medicyukisuna]

"Many people prefer to do their learning alone, away from social scrutiny and the potential shame of failure. According to some research, this is especially true of women." Makes me want to cry that there is actually someone (some men, specifically) that do recognize this. I thought nobody could comprehend it. Many men treat us as the representatives of our gender - when i fail, they'll use that as justification to discriminate against ALL women. Never mind the ridicule i myself face if i fail - "classic egirl" etc etc. It quickly becomes "all girls are bad at games" just because i couldn't in my first 3 hours pull off what you can after 500. And that's before we even begin to take into account the kind of "genre-wide" skill that comes from practicing hundreds of similar games. If you were ever good at Halo, chances are you took to a game like Overwatch WAAAAY quicker than someone that only ever played super mario before. Likewise, Call of Duty players have a much easier time picking up Battlefield than those who'd only played God of War, Shadow the hedgehog, Chrono trigger etc. I grew up with Spyro, Ratchet & Clank and Jak & Daxter. Star Wars Battlefront II was the first shooter i ever played, and i am so glad i did - free from the prying eyes of the world, no one but me and whoever i played split-screen with - my brother, or some friends from school. Once i got Halo 3 from a friend for my 13th birthday, it was my first "true" hardcore shooter, and half a year later my first time ever playing online multiplayer, on the internet. My first two-three weeks playing that game put me off voice chatting with strangers forever, and that was despite being relatively good at the game - in fact, a lot of the abuse i received was BECAUSE i played well. Boys and men couldn't handle losing to me. And then when the abuse started, i'd play worse to get them to stop - which they'd subsequently use against me as proof the fact i beat them in the first place was just a fluke, and clearly i am not supposed to be there nor are any other girls or women like me. Losing in a game meant all the men in the lobby would lose any respect they had for me, too. If i didn't win, i had no value and should just get lost. As much as i try to change myself, that's still my nature today - i get extremely competitive and take losing far too seriously, especially when i play with friends where i'll blame myself and my lacklustre performance for every single loss, every single failure my friends face while playing with me. Now i get it, i'm a young adult and i've learnt not to listen to people talking shit. I respect myself (a little) more now. But back then, as a young teenager that'd grown up in an environment where all abuse was physical and words were usually only used in civil manners, speaking to each other properly and respectfully? I had a LOT i wanted to prove. And to prove that, i had to get good. I prefer playing most games alone, a lot of the talking points in this video feels extremely close to my heart. MMORPGs rarely hold me for long, but i do like them nonetheless - i don't want to directly interact with other people, but i'll still feel more fulfilled if i am just... Living my life alongside them, you know? A populated, social MMORPG feels alive, and so much more valuable than lonely games like Skyrim. I can observe parties of other people having fun playing together, and so sort of get to live that social experience without having to put myself in the position of having to deal with other people. And the intense, suffocating fear of failing them.

[@NekoAnthro]

Hey, I understand you. As a girl, I’ve been avoiding online social games for years for fear of that interaction. I’ve only recently been playing those games when only my friends are in the party and it’s pretty freeing to play that way. But besides my experience, I want to introduce you to a game group on discord. They are a mix of all races, genders, and ethnicities. No harmful content is allowed. They will make you feel safe and welcome to be around. They discuss games, life, animals, etc. Really great group that I go to for a calm, casual space. It’s called Wholesome Games, I think you might like it there. I’ll be there as LoriTom if you want someone to say hi to.

[@NekoAnthro]

I just want to give you a hug after reading your experiences, but wholesome games is the closest I can give you being online.

[@gwendaljambu4310]

Some social circles in "geek" communities have some serious problems of that type, specialy in competitive games I'm really sorry for you to read that kind of thing, even if it's sadly too often In hope for a better future in which everyone will respect each other !

[@elikyiael8740]

personally i've learned only recently that even if words have meanings, true concept behind them and that the people behind those words trully think them, these people still represents nothing when you face the fact that it this moment what matters is not what they think or feel or give out ; it's that these people will stop at nothing to squeeze out any dropplets of skill/emotions/frustration/anger and trow it as hard as they can on you because you are something that THEY can focus on to make themselves feel better by ANY MEANS while not considering you as a genuine human being but as the demon/the reason why they're frustrated/something to get rid of, solely because they're horrible human beings that are not facing any form of punishment nor any form of identification, thus making them lose any form of honor and any form self respect or respect in the process. if it can make you feel better to know that these people whoever they are are impertinent and unhonorable, know that if any healthy human being caught wind of what they spewed online to you they would be social outcasts if that's not already the case, and that these people irl when reacting the same way they do online feels lost and miserable when they're confronted with the repercussions of their action. May it be legal actions that are engaged against them or simply several punches in the kisser, ribs, stomac etc. trust me on the last part, because it feels good being finally able to deal a flurry of heavy blows being done to a 6'3-6'4 burly man who's crying, the only thing you regret after that is not being able to return to that moment and blow their whole face into a bloody mess again

[@doubtful_seer]

My mom is in her 50’s and plays MMOs, and she was previously in a guild that had women up to their mid 80’s playing. Almost every single one would play with their mic off because the harassment gets so bad. I’m 30 and for the first 26/27 years of my life I had to keep my gaming mostly secret because I "wasn’t the type." Especially when I was in art school and in my long hippie skirt every day phase, or when I was doing my public history degree and wore steel boned corsets everyday. I still mostly play single player games though, and I don’t turn my mic on ever. I also have developed really debilitating social anxiety so even typing in discord severs is a mini panic attack for me, so I’m already too shy to get involved with other players without the worry and experiences of harassment.

[@aaronbono4688]

You guys need to get it out of your head that every person who plays an MMO wants to be the top dog. I play MMOs to have fun but I don't have a lot of time for gaming and when I feel like I have to play all the damn time in order to get good enough so that the game is fun, I leave. Most people, especially the people you have not captured to play your game, play casually and have lives and other things that they do. The thing I hate the most about these games is how they seem to have the mentality that you have to suck down all of your extra time in order to play the damn game. You can't just play a few hours a week. It seems like a lot of lost Revenue. This is why I personally avoid arenas and don't play the hardest levels for dungeons or raids. I don't have the time to build up the skill and get all the gear to really compete and I don't want to.

[@meurum2561]

Ain’t no one asking for much, just play with someone for the hell of it. You say you play an mmo for social reasons but those reasons are idiotic

[@onatgz]

i love how he gives examples about casinos when talking about mmos lmao.

[@QziQza]

Aye, that really made laugh too.. Says it all coming from an established developer lol

[@statesrights01]

It's about the $$$ !! 😜🤣😎

[@vincechan2096]

Its called RnG. Random Number Generator, probability. If +4'ing the dagger has a 33% of failure & delete the item. The two people ahead of you in line just succeeded in their +4, you gonna try next? the two people ahead of you failed their +4, you gonna try next? All the fails get kicked back down the latter, and have to aquire an ungodly amount of resources again, the cycle of life continues. RnG IS gambling, luck is probability identified. RnG is a cruel mistress because you can fail a 70% chance, 7 times in a row, and somewhere else someone succeeded a 33% 13 times in a row. only the macro vision of 1million trials do they actually balance out. This space in between is where micro-transactions and credit cards propped up, to turn losers into winners. Me? I grew content with a +6 dagger, and laughed/cried and people literally blowing up the servers resources trying to +16 the thing. (reference game Lineage2)

[@luizgustavosmolarek4440]

Deep down I just want a single player version of that game, so playing alone is the next best thing. Fallout 76 is an example.

[@elfoxy1997]

all the games I like my friends don't have so I play alone :(

[@altenburg423]

What do you like

[@JBzucc]

Literally love play warframe but my friends won't play it cause of the art style

[@einherjar4902]

Exactly All of my friends play games like LoL, WoW or Fortnite. All games I really dont like. So i play my MMOs alone... Later I just started to only play single player games that are built to be played that way

[@akumaplantstudios8869]

@@JBzucc Yeah, unfortunately a lot of people won't give Warframe a chance. Tried to get my colleagues into the game with no luck.

[@JBzucc]

@@akumaplantstudios8869 it sucks bro, I've gotten 2 of them into it but i don't think they got far enough into the game to where tou get hooked, plus i was explaining some stuff and the time it takes to craft stuff might of been a bit of a turn off

[@johnterpack3940]

I spend all day dealing with people, being forced to interact when I'd rather not. The last thing I want when I sit down to play a game is to be forced into more interactions. I don't know when devs got the idea that games should all be frat parties. They're missing out on a big segment of gamers who couldn't care less about dealing with all the inbred trash that populates online communities. I play to relax, not to get involved in drama. I also don't like being tied to obligatory structures like guilds, corps, or whatever. Or games like Star Citizen that force multiplayer on people by making it impossible to run interesting ships solo, but then make the other positions ludicrously unpleasant. Yeah, I'm going to log in to spend a few hours staring at a radar screen while the guys on the bridge get to watch the action. That's exactly what I paid for; who wants to fly their own ship and do their own thing when they could stare at a screen instead?

[@Belorum]

I used to really love to play with others in mmos, my best memories of mmos were lvling with my guild ... but the groups in modern ones have this ogogogo attitude that stresses me out too much. Therefore I prefer to play alone, at my own pace instead.

[@Spyrit2011]

The overall behavior of gamers has changed in mmos, it has mostly become toxic, and it is not fun to play with toxic players. MMOs used to be about teamwork, now it's about dps meters, PvE has become too competitive to a very negative point, and what's the point of playing a game, when it's not fun to play with toxic players. The bottom line people deal with enough BS in r/l, why deal with it in a social game?

[@dalemurray4083]

It was ALWAYS toxic, before UO created Trammel, (a PK prohibited zone) the predatory PKs were so thick you couldn't leave town and survive a full half hour.

[@Lofwyr]

It mostly depends on the mmo tbh, in a game i've played the holy trinity was the meta, i was tank and after some patches they buff the dps to the point where they could tank just fine, so my role basically died and just got worse from there, it got to a point where they didn't even needed healer with the right rotation and potions. But in other mmo's they're not like that and come on not everyone act like an asshole but they are very present in pugs where they're more common.

[@Spyrit2011]

dale murray I don't consider pking toxic, it's part of certain games. When I refer to toxic I mean the verbal behavior of players, who harass and degrade other players. The elitism attitude, that prevents new players from the learning experience.

[@tiedomi80]

I remember when I hit the level cap in Cata (WoW was the only MMO I tried), if I didn't know the ins and outs of a particular instance, or my DPS wasn't high enough, I would either get kicked out of the group, or people would be so toxic that I couldn't be bothered with it and peaced out. Even if I would tell people that I was relatively new, that was no excuse.

[@Krescentwolf]

Spyrit2011 PKing CAN be toxic... but it isnt by default. I've played open pvp games where i was literally stalked and killed repeatedly by the same player. That can seem like harassment to some people, certainly.

[@majamystic256]

personally I don't like to play mmos anymore... the connection problems, economy issues in rpglike mmos, and other players that I don't know and who can be annoying or assholeish get on my nerves too much maybe its a Aspergers thing, i kinda like to do my own thing alone or with close friends without being bothered by other people i don't know I tend prefer singleplayer games or games with optional custom server multiplayer for playing with close friends (like minecraft, gmod, terraria, and classic doom as some examples)

[@Alran109]

I pretty much only play GW2 alone. A couple of my friends have played here and there but they prefer WoW and I don't. So alone is fine. When I need other people to help there's usually no shortage of people around on each map.

[@mikeyoung9810]

The average age of mmo players dropped significantly from the early days of Ultima Online and Everquest. Typically I would group with people 30-40 years old and it was great fun. As time passed grouping meant you had to interact with much younger people (some as young as 8) which means that socially they have very little experience in communicating or cooperating which made grouping a frustrating experience. Games of today there is limited communication going on and most quests are a race to finish them. Anything less than that and most drop from the group. I truly miss the early days of UO and EQ (both still going but much different than how they began).

[@beldin2987]

I remember everyone hated camping bosses in EQ2, but in the end we mostly had a much better time there and more fun then when it was just racing through dungeons with no breaks. Thats just mostly stress for me.

[@frostdracohardstyle]

The average age of MMO players today is around 24. The reason why ultima and everquest had older populations was because of the expensive subscription fee, and the cost of Internet access which could only be paid by people who had a consistent stable income. Now that MMO's are free, or cheap, and internet is also cheap, more people are able to play.

[@ppsarrakis]

Frost Draco,exactly i would say more kids play fortnite and pubg nowdays than wow,on average.

[@beldin2987]

Guess thats then also the reason why all MMOs now are all about PvP, action combat and "endgame" instead of PvE, co-op play and "the journey is the target"

[@krugec23]

Thats true when I started playing wow,most players were 20+

[@miguelgarcia-yn8mn]

I went solo because of the toxicity and people yelling at me, because I didn't know how to play well the game. So I go solo until I master the game, then after that maybe I will play online with people, Because they yell at me for not being good at the game, also as newbie, I get scam a lot so, it is sometime difficult to go back to play massive multiplayer games.

[@Raven-no1hz]

For me, I think a great way to incorporate the loner is to have a low-commitment position with low-to-no communication requirements. Those positions should have a noticeable and visual impact on the gameplay of those around them because that gives a sense of pride and accomplishment. I think Death Stranding made a good starting step in that direction. I loved constructing geometry that would improve the ease of travel for others playing the game, and the likes helped to reinforce that feeling. I wasn't forced to communicate, but I was able to help. It felt good, and the feeling was addicting for me.

[@jaebigc]

I hate dealing with people. just that.

[@Szobiz]

right?

[@iilhares]

Can't really dispute it, people are mostly a bunch of dickheads, so not dealing with them limits the irritation in what is meant to be an escape from the daily drudgery.

[@omgilovesteak6484]

Back in the day people weren't near as toxic... Im not sure what changed but now it is rediculous.

[@Lofwyr]

Fair enough.

[@fatrat92]

Go play a single player game if that's the case.

[@gdomjan83]

This is about me. I've only played 2 MMOs in my life, EVE Online and The Secret World, and I played them solo. I don't want to play with others, the reason I played these games was that the games were interesting, with exciting gameplay and/or great story. If someone made a single player version of these games, I would be the first one buying them.

[@Fingolfin1190]

What did you do when playing EVE solo? It seems to me that all content in the game is designed around player interaction.

[@iilhares]

I found out early that I enjoyed mining, so in the higher-sec systems I would do a fair bit of that. Admittedly, it does work better when you've got a team of folks working on it. Joining a deep-space mining corp gave me a feeling of joy back in the day, as I was one of only two people in our region who could even mine the mercoxit. I like to fly around and haul junk from one system to another to get the trade profits. I lost all interest in fleet combat action when they nerfed missile functions (removed the physics) and made us wee interceptor pilots nothing but expendable fodder as a result.

[@chaosakazero]

@@Fingolfin1190 the beauty of eve online is you can do things that are interactive with the universe but if you find a quiet place you can do it alone .

[@animistchannel2983]

When I played EVEonline (mostly solo), I found several quiet highsec corners of the galaxy to run missions, go ratting, salvage, mining, do a little crafting, practice with custom ship packages, etc. It meant sometimes not making top credit per run because I let trading/hauling specialists do their job too, but I turned more than enough to fly any ship I wanted. With a full T2 marauder for missions and other well-fitted specialty ships, I could have fun all day and not be bothered by the nutty crowds in the high-traffic areas. The trick is to analyze the map and explore .5-.7 systems in cul-de-sacs that are within a reasonable number of jumps from a minor trade & mission hub, also 3-4 jumps or more from the lowsec borders. Then get high standings with the factions/corporations that operate there, and avoid all faction standings hits and pvp stuff, and never leave the starter corp so you can't be wardec'd. The Gallente starter corp had a lot of long-term cool people in it, so I could chat, fleet, and be social if I wanted to, but no one expected it at any given time, per se. If you aren't losing ships, you don't have to earn very much to always make a profit. As I recall, L4 missions in the marauder + a specialty speed-salvage ship made me like 50 million per hour just goofing around (some L4's can earn 100 mil per run each). If I wanted to mellow out and just go zen for a while, I slurped up basic ores in an exhumer and made about 25 million per hour, all profit. If I wanted to screw around helping newbies or new alts of friends, I'd jump in a jacked-up battlecruiser and blow away some L2's-3's with them, or take them on L4's with my marauder to crank up their standings. Once you meet a few other cool advanced soloers that you would actually want to fleet with (because 2 is just cooperating, not politics), you can duo level 4's like lightning and just giggle at the carnage. 2 competent marauders or faction battleships in a mission space are hilarious, even (or especially) for people who are already good at soloing. Popcorn! Of course in EVE you're going to lose a ship somehow, eventually, so my rule was never to take out a ship unless I already had an equal backup built, or enough cash laying around to whip up a replacement without crying over the cost. Anyway, that was my solo EVE strategy, and it worked fine for years. I may still go back to it someday... 3am in the odd corners of the galaxy was a cool place to do some stuff and have some decent fun in peace :)

[@jflowization]

For me, when i first got into MMO’s with Wow and wrath of the lich king, and what i hated the most, and more then likely gave me MMO-social anxiety, was dungeoning, be doing my usual tanking, and suddenly someone stops healing me, calls me trash and shit and leaves the party, where the others in the party would say “LOL” then leave, or i randomly get kicked from the party, also being in guilds that have drama always going on, i’ve moved on to FFIV and i go solo, doing quests and battling boss and monsters on my own. Toxic players and general social anxiety killed being in groups and interacting people with me, by being alone, i feel much better.

[@gaymerkitty6240]

Some of us (like me) have anxiety disorders. And I'm definitely introverted.

[@sergiol.aponte13]

I know this is old, just found it. I am a solo player in MMOs, yet he doesn't cover what I feel is the main issue. We solo players don't have a choice. After playing Diablo II for a long time (solo, on my PC), looking for what else to play, all that was coming out (new and exciting) were MMOs. This is when GW and WOW came out. And so, to play the new content, the new environments, etc, we solo players HAD to go into the MMOs to do so. Not for social content, but to just play something new. Since then the only solo play kind of good game I have seen has been PoE. Besides is like #4, I play when I can and can't subscribe to rules of when/how to play. This is also why I don't belong to Guilds etc... I can't have the game become "a job". And in most game, grouping is a pain you-know-where. I am not looking to make meaningful relationships online, I want to play the game. opposite to #5..

[@stevenarvizu3602]

As a game designer, I think the perfect balance is to make people simply exist within the same world, but not force them to interact. In the same way that you can “solo” in a MOBA, but playing with friends is much more rewarding, I think making a massive single player game, then adding social/competitive aspects on top of it give people a reason to play with other people without making them feel like they’re at a loss for not working with a team.

[@theheroesofether7300]

As a game designer would you want to connect and share ideas, we are starting to build a game

[@Ichinin]

Because i want to. I made my own guild in Everquest 2, i grinded most of the guild status XP myself up to lvl 70 (Which gave me a tier 3 guildhall), i had some members but they didn't stay long and eventually i kicked out everyone since they had not logged on for over a year. Sure, i made some friends ingame, but i keep them at a distance. Sometimes i have raided with them, but i prefer just faffing about doing quests in my own pace. Eventually i could hire mercenaries and dualbox to get my own raid team. The same goes for Elderscrolls Online, EvE online, Neocron, Star Wars Galaxies and a pile of other MMOs that i cannot even remember now. I JUST DON'T CARE for the forced-social aspect of the gameplay, and - as have been described earlier here - some people are just assholes. Bots are also boring, and you just cannot interact with them and talk about fun stuff.

[@Kelgoroad]

Why people play alone in an MMO? Me: logs on. 300 Friends on my list "HEY COME TANK/HEAL FOR US!!!!!111!!!. Me: Mutes/logs off.

[@korvincarry3268]

The pain of being one of the only tanks/healers that people have, rather than yet another fing dps main. I feel you.

[@assaultnya6233]

@@korvincarry3268 "Why would you wanna play alone when you can play with me, Lord of Parse, Bringer of DPS, master of blaming the Healer because I don't know mechanics!"

[@korvincarry3268]

@@assaultnya6233 too often im playing a tank or healer, then people run up past me and faster than i can go and die, then blame me. I found ONE dps main that actually understood they needed to stick to me, and we became unstoppable except by other similar teams. You wanna know the best test for this? Go on mw, grab a riot shield and combat knife, and see if anyone stays behind you and shoots over you to kill the enemy. If someone does that and has games with tank/healer/dps/etc etc, friend them immediately. Maybe theyll play with you and youll have a good teammate.

[@assaultnya6233]

@@korvincarry3268 I just want to be a cute healslut. Don't judge me.

[@korvincarry3268]

@@assaultnya6233 fair enough!

[@ArseneGray]

How the hell did youtube know that I am a loner in MMOs and studied game design and actually suggested me a video which fits perfect to my parameters.

[@Szobiz]

i play by myself because all that there is is a either the speedsters that do everything in a rush caring for nothing ot the perfect builders that will judge my points/talents/skill choices, so ty very much but i rather play alone. Or, rarely, i may find someone to play together but a build for solo play and for multiplay are very diferent, and usualy i can't depend on somebodyelse to be online so i can progress and enjoy the game

[@FumblsTheSniper]

There is a difference between “alone” and “face the challenges alone”.

[@FumblsTheSniper]

Aaron Wilson hug?

[@theysaidimasian9766]

Ha! *GÆ*

[@zsdavfan123]

As a Loner i can only say this:1. My friends are usually worse than me at farming and PvE. Like they're really bad. 2.they always ask for help even when I'm doing something. And when i tell them to enjoy the game themselves they say it's impossible and stuff, and when i say that if i did it u can. Then they just get mad, and quit. 3.they slow my farming. Example from Trove:my luxion mount is way faster than the free celebrating cake, and when i tell him to tp to me when I'm there they get mad again. 4. They always die and need ressurection and when i die they literally just go ahead and say:yeah i can't do it without you, and i can't revive you even tho I'm next to you, imma just die then." Thats it basically.

[@1pcfred]

If I want to be social I'll hit the bar. When I am on my computer that's because don't want to deal with people then. Duh!

[@tictac4949]

When he said being a loner is a heroic archetype, I felt that

[@JesheKassenberg]

I'm a Gaming Dad with a young daughter and quite a busy work schedule on top of that. I enjoy a wide variety of games. Unfortunately, playing an MMO alone is the most enjoyable way for me to play an MMO. Playing with others, mostly people who don't have kids or don't understand the restrictions of gaming with kids and a full time job, adds a lot of pressure that as a parent I don't need or want. Things like the obligation to be on a schedule, being online frequently and reliably, or spending hours on raids, and so much more. Playing solo, I can hop in and out as needed, whenever I get a chance, and I can do whatever I want to. I can basically use my time to enjoy the game effectively the way I want. Unlike Multiplayer games like COD, Overwatch, Fortnite, etc. MMOs offer a great experience, story, and depth, even for solo players who don't have the time to invest endless hours a day in it. It'd be a shame to miss out on some of those experiences just because you think you MUST play it with others.

[@IceLizardsUnited]

The only mmo I played alone was SWTOR. And that's many because of the story. I wanted KOTOR 3, EA gave me an mmo....

[@synsofthefather]

I play them all alone, but the only reason I play SWTOR is for all intents and purposes it is KOTOR 3.

[@TheKueiJin]

Unfortunately what they did to KotOR 1 & 2 disgusts me to no ends so much so that I tend to advise anyone to stop playing it.

[@bugsy9583]

TheKueiJin Please elaborate, I'm curious to hear. Cause I've been thinking about getting back into swtor (only played briefly before).

[@legion999]

Yeah, I wanted KOTOR3 too...

[@ytubeanon]

+Questionable? doing Flashpoints in groups was fun a lot of times