The Lost Roman Legion | Possible Explanations

An exploration into the fate of the Legio IX Hispana and where exactly it drops out of the historical records.
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[@WorldofAntiquity]

If you liked this video, you might also like: ROMAN COMBAT TRAINING AT ISCA AUGUSTA FORTRESS kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4G5gKKYfrOqhKs THE MYSTERIOUS ORIGINS OF THE SEA PEOPLES kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIHIqop9jMtmqsU AM I TOO WOKE FOR SAYING CE AND BCE? kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWevp2aBpdWbjMk

[@chrimony]

"In 172, a lightning legion unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Londinium underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... THE NINTH LEGION."

[@springbloom5940]

There is something seriously wrong with you

[@stehfreejesseah7893]

Yes

[@stehfreejesseah7893]

@@springbloom5940You don’t get it do you?

[@springbloom5940]

@@stehfreejesseah7893 🤦🏽‍♀️

[@spadeespada9432]

😂😂😂😂 May I suggest one edit, "government" to "the Senate" or "Praetorian Guard" or "SPQR".

[@Pandaemoni]

It's good to know that all the rules I learned about forming roman numerals, like 9 being "IX" and not "VIIII," were not actually followed by the Romans.

[@Deipnosophist_the_Gastronomer]

Through skilful employment of the VIIII and IX designations, combined with a brother in the paymaster's office, the ninth were able to draw double salary for a number of years. They then disbanded and retired wealthy men. It took 30 years for the Roman bureaucracy to discover this ruse, and they were so embarrassed that they systematically erased all records of the ninth.

[@podemosurss8316]

That would really fit for a "Hispanian" (Spanish) Legion... 😉😂😂😂😂😂

[@faithlesshound5621]

@@podemosurss8316 They live on to this day in the expression "Spanish Practices."

[@brittoncooper1251]

I used the 9th in a school project back in the 90s. We had to design a Roman town and write a story about it's founding. The story part of mine was a letter from the legions engineer describing the fort-turned-town to the governor who would be taking up residence there. The fort was north of Hadrian's Wall, and engineer included a bit about 9th having set out in the spring to take care of some local uprising. Within that story, when the governor arrived, the town was levelled and no sign of the 9th remained. The governor and his entourage high-tailed it back to Londinium, and after reporting the loss to the Rome, the Antonine Wall was built. As a high school junior, this was PEAK historical fiction I tell ya!

[@gregedmand9939]

My take on the 9th's "demise": was that it got slowly picked apart by the Empire's needs to reinforce hot spots, by sending vexilations from weakened Legions in a quieter area. There are numerous examples of these detachments becoming permanently incorporated into other Legions by local commanders. It seems likely the 9th had lost the vital patronage required to rebuild major units over time. There seems to be no one who kept the honour of the 9th alive and repeatedly record its place in history.

[@CodytheHun123]

That makes the most sense. A lot of military units will be attached to different parent units. Perhaps the case with the ninth was something similar.

[@adamroodog1718]

your a bright shiny star doctor dave. thank you from the bottom of my black heart for enlightening the people who may have missed out in their youth.

[@kersebleptes1317]

Great roundup of the known facts on this much-studied legion. Will be close to the hearts of a lot of people out there!

[@autuer833]

Huge fan David!! Thank you for all you do!

[@AnthonyDominello]

Even a Dr. Who episode-- the benchmark for all historical events! 🙂

[@richardpaulcaird9192]

That first doctors 'roman serial' was the worst of the first doctors serials, a real shame... 🇮🇹🏛️🤦🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🏛️🇮🇹

[@Sigrt]

You should do an episode or two on "biblical archaeology" I am not talking about the ones done by actual archaeologists, but rather the Ron Wyatt crowd. They basically claim to have found Sodom and Gomorrah, Egyptian chariots drowned by the sea Moses split, Noah's ark and more. Their "findings" span from pre history up until the death of Jesus.

[@kaijukojin4371]

😂 yes, I grew up on that shit, and need to unlearn my knowledge. Moses fountain ⛲️ is a great one!

[@One.DeSanctis.]

Some biblical archeology could use a good debunking.

[@lastofmygeneration]

Ron Wyatt is an absolute nuisance.

[@rayn8740]

What an interesting topic.👍 Thanks!

[@redrix3731]

Or they had a bunch of surplus prebaked tiles just sitting there unused in Brittanica, and some guy could use some ballast for his ship sailing to Batavia across the North Sea up the river, and after loading cargo dumped them at Noviomagus (later Nijmegen). No Legion involved, and it could explain the mystery of the mixed stamps. This is the reason why stamped bricks and tiles from one place, can be found in other places 1000s of seamiles, even continents away.

[@faithlesshound5621]

I've seen it stated that wooden ships from Britain and other European countries used to be weighed down with ballast consisting of rubble before setting off across the sea, and have later to throw it out while going up-river in America, Africa or Asia to be able to ride higher in shallow water. That means building material and who knows what else could end up on a river bed thousands of miles away.

[@philthycat1408]

In Scotland it was reported that there were ‘Romans in the Gloamin’. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@Carlton-B]

It is likely that it was disbanded, and was unremarked by the surviving sources, because the disbandment wasn't notable. The legion destroyed by Chosroes was likely an auxiliary legion. Nice thing about archaeology, more pieces to the puzzle are found all the time. We likely won't live long enough to see a consensus on the fate of the ninth, and the fate of the ninth isn't a hill worth dying on. Great video.

[@blaircalvin5025]

The most scholarly discussion of Legio IX’s disappearance I have seen. Thank you

[@richardpaulcaird9192]

Love this Ancient Mysteries series... ❤️👍🏻👏🏻👌🏻🙂 Please keep em coming, maybe do the lost colony of Roanoke 🤔 cheers again from London 🇬🇧☔🍻

[@Skankhunter420]

Lucias Dookius is a tough name for a kid. Lol

[@kkupsky6321]

I was there. I’ll never forget. We got wasted and laid and never returned. I asked the son I don’t have to not do the same. He hasn’t.

[@matthewludivico1714]

Archeological survey in Scotland sounds like a great idea.

[@Checobeep]

There's a 60hz mains hum in the vocal line on this recording, I recommend replacing mic cables or the connectors. Sounds like a badly soldered lead, but it could be a bunch of things.

[@edgarsnake2857]

Fascinating as always. Thanks, Doc.

[@bipolarminddroppings]

They went through a time vortex and ended up in the Cretaceous where they were eaten by, well, just about everything..

[@ccreel64]

😂😂

[@jameshart2622]

Nah mate. It was Alera. Well known fact.

[@lastofmygeneration]

Fantastic video, Doc!

[@davidtydeman1434]

Thanks for the effort put into research and presentation

[@thesausagecontinuim1971]

great vid doc, thnx!!

[@robchandler884]

Thank you for all you do!

[@davidviner5783]

GREAT EXPLANATION. THANKS.

[@corro202]

Great video.

[@johnford6967]

Great stuff.Lived near Chester home of Legio XX in the early 60s.Wonderful presentation.Have books on Roman Britain l brought with me to USA...

[@AnglophobiaIsevil7]

As a man i had to click on this to get my twice daily rome thoughts filled in. Thanks!

[@MrScottev]

Im from Northumberland and I remember on a school trip to Hadrian's Wall learning about the lost legion, i was taught they vanished in to thin air when going up to to fight the Scottish. I'd totally forgot about it before i watched this.

[@neilthornton3544]

Caledonians are not Scottish but Britons.Scottish are colonial Irish not native to Britain which is why you have Gaelic in Scotland

[@ThatLadyBird]

Wow you read my mind with this topic

[@GenghisVern]

When I was young, my friend told the story: "The legion marched off into the mist and was never heard of again, so they built a wall". Quietly wiped out by the blue-painted Picts. THIS is interesting though. Good to have actual facts 'n stuff.

[@ronmani9476]

Thanks for the informative videos! Theres a farley good movie loosely based on the 9th legions demise in England called "Centurion"... its a pretty good watch

[@Streetsam]

Great!

[@moehoward01]

Damn aliens are sticking their noses into everything.

[@bofpwet9500]

thx

[@SaszaDerRoyt]

As a frequent visitor to the Yorkshire Museum (I'm doing my dissertation research on a couple of the Roman burials housed there) it was cool to see some familiar artefacts!

[@JohnnyWednesday]

Ooooh a mystery! I'm in!

[@InquisitorThomas]

Did they trying looking under the couch?

[@warrenbooth2103]

Maybe the 9th was considered expendable so was made up of troops that were considered scum.

[@Sjess25]

Unfortunately I don’t have $$$ rn for your course but as this video is about the Romans it just occurred to me: I would love to hear something about the etruscan civilization! I might be blind but I can’t find so much about them on yt. As someone who’s been fortunate enough to go to Rome frequently from an early age I’ve always heard about them as something mysterious / great builders who we don’t know thet much about. I would love a video from you about them. Still love your channel, cheers :)

[@davekelsey8762]

Time to think about Rome. 😎

[@almitrahopkins1873]

The sole problem with trying to solve this mystery is the lack of written records. The Ninth may have not existed as one continuous legion from the dates where their name was inscribed in monumental architecture. It could have been disbanded and reformed a dozen times over the recorded periods. It’s a bit like the Seventh Cavalry in the US military. Between the Little Bighorn and Ia Drang in Vietnam, it didn’t exist. But we have the written documentation that it didn’t exist in military records. It’s the paper bits that we need in order to understand the complete history of the Ninth Hispana. The IX and VIIII could denote that it was different legions altogether too, just to add confusion. Losing all of its infantry might have meant the Ninth before wasn’t the same Ninth after. Cavalry was auxilia, not legion. That might explain the two demarcations in England being used, separating the IX from the reformed VIIII. And that doesn’t even take into account the Coelacanth factor. The Ninth could have existed right up to the collapse of the Empire, but not left any additional monumental architecture, leading to the mystery of what happened to it. Its omission from monuments to the armies may have just been a mistake, like a scribe forgetting about that one. It’s a fascinating mystery, but it may never be solved. It might not be possible to solve it.

[@spadeespada9432]

I wonder if there is a pattern or order to the use of "IX" vs "VIIII".

[@varyolla435]

Just an aside folks. As I have referenced in the past for those who enjoy the historicity of things like this then I encourage you to read: *De Re Militari* - by _Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus_ It details a summary of the history of the structure of the Roman legions and their battle tactics as well as the training of the Roman soldier. While informative it however as sometimes happens likely includes a certain amount of "propaganda"* - much as say Caesar's Commentaries obviously do Still if one takes from it the objective information it contains within it to dismiss the "exuberance" then it can give you useful insight into the historicity of the Roman Army and its' employment. Just something to think about. Enjoy your day. * - an example of this might be the writer states that properly structured and led Roman legions in his antiquity could wage wars based upon 1 or 2 legions. This of course is a bit misleading. When Caesar subdued Gaul as an example he created multiple legions to accomplish the task and at any given time you would see not 1 or 2 legions in play - but half a dozen or possibly even more. The major battles reflected at times 50K Roman legionnaires/auxiliaries or more.

[@wormy3863]

"inconceivable" is forever Wallace Shawn

[@podemosurss8316]

3:00 I wonder if the Cantabrians were already led by Miguel Ángel Revilla at this point...

[@brianedwards7142]

Rosemary Sutcliffe FTW!!! Before her I thought historical fiction had to always be like Poldark.

[@masterdecats6418]

I hope you get to work with PBS on something one day

[@MymilanitalyBlogspot]

Parallel question: did the soldiers receive their wages in coins, or was it kept track of in writing, and if they did receive it in coins, who transported it and watched over it while the soldier was working in the fort or fighting or moving with his legion (assuming for the sake of argument long term accumulation)?

[@redceltnet]

My knowledge of early Rome comes from the book The Beginnings of Rome by T.J. Cornell. Is his work respected in the field, and is that particular book outdated in our understanding of early Rome?

[@FonzieKree]

paddled their trirema to South America to show them how to pile stone and build portculises. Either this or Stigers Tigers

[@BLG80]

It's no mystery, what happened was the last Roman emperor Romulus augustulus fled from invading goths lead by Odoacer, with the help of a handful of royal Roman legionaries and a rather talented Byzantine affiliated Indian warrior, finally made it to the relative safety of Lego ix hispana on hadrians wall. The legion had gotten old and mostly returned to the local Fields as farmers. when they again had to unite to protect the boy emperor from an allied force of native warband and gothic headhunters. The legion won the day and Romulus agustulus later became known as king Arthur, and his tutor was non other than Merlin, as we know them today. Thought this was common knowledge 😂

[@derekmcnulty2559]

Did the Romans replenish and reconstitute depleted units? Ie if the 9th was "destroyed" in one place, would they receive replacements and redeployed elsewhere? Or once combat ineffective the unit is struck off the roll?

[@carriekelly4186]

I think this was also a film with Channing Tatum🙄was intereating as i like stuff based on Ancient Britain/Rome😉

[@MrOttopants]

Probably aliens, or they fell into Atlantis. /s

[@elaztec.aztecca]

That’s what we were thinking too 👽 🌊 💨

[@richardpaulcaird9192]

😅😂🤣👌🏻

[@RDEnduro]

Nailed it first try

[@One.DeSanctis.]

😅

[@Numero103]

Or they are the white skinned civilizors that graham hancock was talking about

[@davidbarrass]

13:20 could it be that a vexillation of the VIIII (to use the form also used in the gate at York, as can clearly be seen at 5:30) was sent to the Netherlands as the British vexillation. The rest of the legion was lost in Britannia. The VIIII was reformed from this vexilation, before being lost elsewhere?

[@Tugela60]

Their compass got broken, so they dissapeared and were never seen again.

[@MrBlazingup420]

The haplogroup of the descendants of Clan McCulloch chiefs arose in the Central Eurasian steppes and might be traced to the Iazyges Sarmatians who served as auxiliaries under Marcus Aurelius. From Y-DNA Relationship Between R1a-Y2619 Ashkenazi Levites and Their Closest Matches, the Levites were the Priest and Temple workers. A.J. Levin, former Administrator of Family Tree DNA's Ashkenazi-Levite DNA Project (R1a1), has noted that the Z2122+ F1345+ CTS6- McCulloch clan, in Scotland, could be descended from a Sarmatian man who was among the 5,500 Sarmatians (recently conquered) whom the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius brought to Scotland to garrison Hadrian’s Wall.

[@tjsho417]

You and Metatron (KZbin channel) should do a collab together on Roman stuff!

[@JMM33RanMA]

Your videow are always interesting, Prof. Miano.

[@sixeses]

Damnatio Memoriae ?

[@miaththered]

I reckon they were disbanded and no one remembered to write that down in a material that lasts forever as opposed to y'know, papyrus.

[@yorkshirepudding9860]

Did legions ever get wound down for logistical reasons? I choose to imagine most of the 9th settled in Yorkshire and some of them are my ancestors.

[@yvonnerogers6429]

👍🏻

[@kersebleptes1317]

And, as of this minute, not a single mention in the comments of Rosemary Sutcliffe! Ah, the march of time.

[@AntonioTorcoli]

Indeed. It is possible that the ninth was destroyed by the Parthians at Elegia

[@stehfreejesseah7893]

Possible reasons: marching into the dessert.

[@therongjr]

Where have you been? The Twelfth Doctor discovered seven years ago that they're fighting the Eaters of Light in a parallel dimension.

[@georgemckendrickbryce9863]

When I was growing up in Scotland, we were told a story that our ancestors ate them.

[@varyolla435]

Easier than catching deer or seals I suppose....... 🤐

[@petersvahn8931]

So. Where and from what is the so called hackapelait from? I know, and can teach you how to say it right.

[@Leo_ofRedKeep]

It never went missing. Roman legions took losses and were eventually recombined in one fewer. An event so unremarkable it left no persistent trace.

[@TKE644]

99% of the time I hear a YTer talk about a class they are offering the price usually leans high (with questionable content quality), not so here. You’re basically giving it away.

[@dkakito]

the Ninth were sent to Tartarus to recruit an army of the damned!

[@GizzyDillespee]

Perhaps they got lost, and never found their way back?

[@nycgweed]

I’m pretty pretty sure that aliens abducted them

[@kubhlaikhan2015]

Bet they got lost at Watford. Everybody else does.

[@claudiaxander]

Beautiful wild nordic forest maidens looking to party? They derailed my career!

[@AveragePicker]

The ninth? Pi is often abbreviated as 3.141, which if we add it up equals 9. The ninth legion also marched with precision that we can not replicate today. They stood so close together that you couldn't fit a spear head between them. Their shields were locked tighter than any modern military force can lock their shields with unmatched precision. Yet we are expected to believe they did this with in 2000 year old shoes? I don't think so. I have friends who are cobblers and they don't believe it is possible even in modern day shoes we can't march like that! I believe the 9th were taking Pi to the pyramid!

[@COZYFORREAL]

They only marched east-west - facing the Orion belt

[@caodesignworks2407]

"We've built incredible buildings like the colosseum, and pantheon, we've invented plumbing and heated floors. We've got dentistry and practical surgery, unmatched concrete and sewers, a postal service, bound books, and the aqueducts. We've got artists that sculpt incredible marble statues and roads built to handle both waste water, rain water, and chariots. We've got incredible black smith's that create great feats of metallurgy. But damn it Caeser, why can't we just make a good pair of shoes. Just imagine how incredible our military could be if only we could figure out footwear, it'll be another thousand years before someone figures out how to protect our feet, the two things we all have to walk on to get anywhere for all of human history" -Some Roman Legionnaire probably Side note: Did you know they had ice skates date back at least 3600 years ago? The oldest leather shoes we've ever found are 5500 years old and they still had their laces!

[@bradenculver7457]

@@caodesignworks2407little known fact, the Huns actually had sketchers, allowing them to cross large distances

[@caodesignworks2407]

@@bradenculver7457 Ohhhh now that's something I did not know, I always thought they had Adida's but that makes so much sense!

[@piotr9448]

I'm not saying it's aliens... But aliens 😉

[@2lefThumbs]

Ix nay on the gion lay

[@exploatores]

In the useless senators nephew should have taken care of the messages to order the IX legion to move to another provice. So after a few years with no money and not a singel message. the legion starts to dissabeare in to the loacal population. the ruins of their last fort is waiting to be discoverd somwhere. the senat thought it was to embaracing to loose a legion. that they tried to cover it up. the VIIII legion might have been a part of it.

[@MrPenguln]

Stonemasons baby, Stonemasons.

[@dennisfisher1430]

So at what point do people start to talk about this? When does it become a thing that theres’s this lost legion?

[@ahkillease4324]

All records of their end were systematically destroyed by some tampering trickster who thought it’d be hilarious to troll future humans looking back on and trying to make sense of the past

[@vespasian266]

Could just be a change of name. or disbanded to spite a general who might of been a political threat. times change personalities change.

[@terrorbirds9835]

Jews failing to be credited for a historical victory? Dunno in this particular case but it did sound awfully familiar.

[@joeneil5485]

A clerical error...? Or they all just married each other and knitted sweaters in the wilderness...?

[@olorin4317]

I hate to say it guys, but it’s been so long, I’m afraid they’re likely very dead.

[@veraxiana9993]

I don't know that conclusion sounds drastic, it's only been a few thousand years /s

[@ddavidjeremy]

Everyone knows, the 7th 8 9th.

[@bugsby4663]

The lost Persian army of Cambyses is a lot more interesting.

[@karldubhe8619]

I bet aliens isn't a possible explanation. :( (kidding, jsut another comment for Al Gore's Rhythm.)

[@Lostboy811]

They turned into Author and the knights of the round table.

[@williambeckett6336]

You got it WRONG. The Bar-Kohkba revolt was NOT the second revolt it was the THIRD. Why is it even historians like this guy forget and/or want to waive off the KITOS WAR? It was arguably one of the most pivotal revolts as the Jews truly terrified Rome by almost seizing control of lower Egypt. Rome's main grain supply.

[@TheDanEdwards]

"Why is it even historians like this guy forget and/or want to waive off the KITOS WAR?" - maybe it's not as malicious as you are implying. Same thing happens in the discussion about WWII - everyone concentrates on Hitler's invasion of Poland, ignoring Japan's war in China which started a few years earlier. Japan's war in China is just lumped in with WWII. Likewise, Jewish uprisings in various provinces are seen as precursors to the climax in 132CE.

[@williambeckett6336]

@@TheDanEdwards Uh, no. Not in this instance. This wasn't some global theater, this was the second Jewish revolt and far more bloody than the first. And as I said: It was arguably one of the most pivotal revolts as the Jews truly terrified Rome by almost seizing control of lower Egypt. Rome's main grain supply. Antisemetism had been simmering across theRoman empire since the beginning of the 1st century, became overtly violent after the 66-70 revolt broke out (pogroms wiped out thousands of Jews per city) and went into overdrive when they revolted AGAIN just under 50 years later.

[@giovannigio6217]

there is some speaker(?) humming in your audio. I hope you can find the cause

[@andrewblackard3369]

Dr Miano, to my knowledge genetics has not been applied to this problem. I think it may offer new insights. I have been researching my family history for the last 20 years and my family traces back to Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. We also belong to an extremely rare yDNA haplogroup called J2(M-319). This haplogroup exists in only one place over 1% and that is 9% in Crete where it has been identified back to 2200bce. It is documented that Legion VI conscripted young men from Crete as archers to serve in England and were based in Lincoln. Additionally, my own DNA lineage diverges around 2kya so the timeframe matches. Therefore, I'm pretty sure my male ancestor was an archer conscripted by Legion VI in Crete and carried to England. A survey of other Mediterranean yDNA lineages could provide clues if Legion IX ended up somewhere in England. We are unlike 99.99% other families there.

[@commissarchenkov4257]

Alternative historians often discuss a roman legion that ended up in China. What is the validity of this claim and is there evidence for it?

[@outdoorsythings2573]

Simple. A battle or battles happened , 9th had heavy losses, due to the problems in the empire the remaining 9th was just used to reinforce another legion due to a lack of reinforcements. By the time the war was over there was no political drive to re form the 9th and so it died. Simple explanation. Sadly no big firework type explanation. Just a slow death of a legion that was then absorbed into another legion.

[@twonumber22]

orcs