The LOST SEASON Of The 2003 TMNT | Series Retrospective (Part 5)

[@stevendobek4055]

Season 5 for me is a great example of also being a product of its time. Avatar and Naruto were both huge series at this point, so the idea of a more magic based martial arts and ninja system was in the minds of a lot of the same people that watched Turtles, myself included. I always liked how the idea of Mystic Ninjas was touched on as far back as Season 1, and this was a huge payoff to see this world's mystic side of ninjutsu to its full extent. The one criticism I would add, beyond the ones mentioned, it always bugged me in the episodes where the Turtles rescue Karai, they get their first win against the Mystics, and Shredder's reaction was "Ha! Those were my weakest minions!" before raising his undead army. Considering how built up the Mystics were at this point, even able to best the Ninja Tribunal, I wish that dialogue was rephrased such as "You've only taken out a small portion of my forces." It would capture the same feeling that the Turtles were still mostly out of their depth, but wouldn't downplay the strength of the Mystics, nor the payoff of the Turtles *finally* besting them in battle. Even back in season 1, it was Splinter who defeated them, so finally seeing a win against them was a big deal for me.

[@JsReviews]

That's a really interesting point, tying it back to the first Season. I agree with your take.

[@caliph95]

And Splinter had to use a magic sword to beat that burned his hands

[@smartass0124]

@@JsReviewsmaybe the Demon Shredder Came from atlinties

[@Master00Ra]

Let's not forget about Jackie Chan too.

[@GameBreaker1055]

I find this very interesting because Naruto ended up having the same issue that J had mentioned before speaking about "Enter the Dragon". The show started with Naruto being a somewhat random kid who wanted to earn the respect of his pears, but by the end of Shippuden he was THE DESTINED HERO.

[@Backstromer1235]

The tengu shredder has one line I can’t believe was allowed in the show. When he removes Karai’s armor and see’s her body he says “Perhaps I should keep you alive you’d make a fine slave” I was laughing from shock that they gave him that line.

[@armageddonmma8907]

Oh yeah, that sounded so wrong

[@carl_consumer.of.reality]

That's awesome 😆

[@tananatana4011]

Holy shit, what the fuck? I've missed that

[@13Kr4zYAzN13]

yo wtf

[@MrDreadEnd]

just watched the show a week ago to reminisce. That was such an inappropriately sexually charged statement for a kids show. I'm glad you pointed it out.

[@GameGuruNT]

I feel like the reason why we were able to get the Ninja Tribunal season was simply because just enough of it was completed. The various reused animation you've pointed out as nitpicks were probably what the animation team had to do to fill in the animation gaps to make something that could be released to the public. And they did it with only the loss of a single filler episode.

[@AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH]

But I heard that the First Pass of animation for Nightmare's Recycled was completed (tho it was riddled with animation errors, contained no music, or fighting grunts) there was a watchable version finished. So why couldn't they have just released the First Animation Pass as a special feature or something on the DVD release

I'm such a really good singer 🥰... kzbin.info/www/bejne/gquYqWmse9Z5hJI

[@beam_me_up_scotty69]

Yeah, Enter the Dragons was clearly unfinished in some areas, there's another example of reused animation when Shredder throws Silver Century through the roof in Part 1, he goes flying and it's clearly the same bit of reused animation seen in Part 2, taken from Space Invaders

[@theotherjared9824]

This season really shows how much of a miracle the show was in the first place. With the way 4kids treated its other properties at the time, it's safe to assume they were constantly breathing down the neck of mirage to make the show more "marketable" for their target audience. But mirage stuck to their guns and made the show they always wanted to make, and you can feel its DNA in many future turtle projects and beyond with how influential it was.

[@sagittariusseiya8310]

So true.

[@SilverKappa]

Honestly, I like the idea of Splinter being the kind of father/mentor that withholds information, even information that would be incredibly important, either because he mistakenly thinks it's irrelevant or (also mistakenly) believes it's more important to guide his sons through the logic themselves. It humanizes him to an extent.

[@richardperaza5083]

You know I didn’t think about it that way like I feel like the part where they talk about the Utrom Shredder he was supposed to say the Utrom’s Shredder but probably due them having it to be shelved it they didn’t say it correctly

[@ALtheBoi]

Dude I remember hating Fast Forward so much I stopped watching the show and considered it a different show entirely So this was my last season of TMNT03, and I actually think it goes out with a bang honestly Batshit insane all throughout with some cool worldbuilding and a satisfying ending

[@KumiChan2004]

I saw this season years later, while rewatching the series, and thought it was very well done. Fast Forward is where I stopped watching because it felt... boring really. Like the change of pace was just jarring and boring.

[@smartass0124]

Maybe the Demon Shredder Came from atlinties

[@jdawson7877]

i don't hate fast forward or back to the sewers i enjoyed them but yeah the issue with is that them especially fast forward is that they feel out of place in the 2003 series i think they would've fit rise of tmnt better.

[@leithaziz2716]

Interestingly enough, I don't remember much about my thoughts regarding Fast Forward. I do remember enjoying it, so it'll be interesting re-examining it with the next retrospective. I'll probably get more enjoyment out of it if I see it as its own thing like a spin-off.

[@mightymallardz768]

@Justin Arzola yeah, I remember them showing season 5 a few years after the series ended. Not too sure what year but it was for sure called "The Lost Season" when they promoted it

[@firestudiozzz7774]

Puts a smile on my face to know people still give this master piece of a show attention even after almost 2 decades

[@hoseinbmr3449]

Because it is in fact a masterpiece, I thought I loved this show just because of nostalgia but this review series just made me realize this show is really good

[@firestudiozzz7774]

@@hoseinbmr3449 Honestly true.

[@sham00ly75]

If one day I hopefully had grand kids I'm gonna make sure they watch it .

[@redwolf0188]

SAME! It always was and still is tied with Batman the Animated Series for my favorite animated shows of all time.

I'm such a really good singer 🥰... kzbin.info/www/bejne/gquYqWmse9Z5hJI

[@viliamsneakman1508]

I found it interesting that rise of the tmnt show used some of the ideas of tmnt 2003 season 5. In Rise turtles have magic weapons, the rise shredder is similar to tengu shredder.

[@Gundam_JAY]

Which one would you say did the whole Mystic idea better?

[@FormalFilmsProductions]

@@Gundam_JAY I personally think they both did it well in their own style

[@brucebanana4486]

@@Gundam_JAY I kinda prefer Rise of The Turtle because it is a bit more enjoyable to me than season 5. They kinda set up Demon Shredder better than 5.

[@smartass0124]

Maybe the Demon Shredder Came from atlinties

[@jdawson7877]

speaking of rise of tmnt do you guys thing fast forward an back to the sewers would've fit rise of tmnt better one time i was watching a video that showed footage of rise of tmnt with the back to the sewers theme played in the background and i honestly think that theme song fits rise more than it does with the 2003 series.

[@shadowwolf5486]

I'm probably in the minority but I liked this season maybe its because I love supernatural things and demons, dragons, ninja magic it was an interesting series.

[@TheGloryXros]

Same, at this point I was cool with it.

[@petertilton7004]

Me too. Season 5 was worth it.

[@crosscarter21]

Cosigned on this. Wasn't long enough to be the best in terms of storytelling. But so many aspects of the Turtles was explored here, thought it was refreshing.

[@milesbradshaw6643]

Your not alone, this 5th season is awesome. You could almost end the 2003 series hear.

[@smartass0124]

I think the Demon Shredder Came from atlinties

[@ToriArti1]

I agree on some of your opinions on season 5. Like, I believe it SHOULD have ended there, the whole 03 Ninja Turtles series and I myself and lots of other fans would’ve been happy and content with it. ALSO: I don’t think Fast Forward or Back to the Sewers should have ever existed under the 03 universe. Your explanation of why the company did it in the first place makes total sense, but I’d rather have it introduced as a brand spanking new thing, separated from the story and plot of seasons 1-5. But that’s just my personal opinion.

[@andrewbader6927]

the last 2 seasons dont really stand on there own maybe if they got to do the fast foward season 2 it could have been better but 2 season for a tmnt show would be sad

[@Raptorcloak]

@@andrewbader6927 I like to think Season 7 would have been better if it focused on all of the Shredders fighting and had a more serious tone like the earlier seasons.

[@daltonwilliams1723]

But back to the sewers is reliant on events from season 5 and fast forward. I don’t think it could stand on it’s own. Fast forward I think could work as it’s own series since most of the characters sans bishop & stockman are all original and new. Personally I’d love for them to revisit the concept

[@gyga100]

i think that if they did that and make Fast Foward/Back to the Sewers a different show, could suffer a similar problem like Rise of TMNT, it was completely different reboot that alienated old fans,and also new fans,because its was release right after a show that was fresh in kids minds and even being re-run in some places,it would be better to end in Season 5,and reboot after 3 or 4 years, with some animated specials for the 2000s show in between

[@arcticfox4013]

@@gyga100 maybe the answer is a longer interval between new iterations of the turtles so the previous ones can be properly phased out?

[@Theokal3]

Personally, while I see where the criticisms come from, I did like this season. I thought it was pretty epic and added interesting lore. My biggest issue was Karai getting together with Chaplin, because I felt her reciprocating his feelings kinda came out of nowhere; But aside from that, I enjoyed it.

[@mitchfletcher2386]

Paxton?

[@musfirahasim6225]

@@mitchfletcher2386 prolly meant doctor chaplin

[@Theokal3]

@@musfirahasim6225 Yes, Chaplin. Sorry for some reason I keep getting confused on his name. I'll edit it

[@jyodee_3159]

I generally dislike plots where a greater entity comes in and goes “we let it happen because it was meant to happen”. Personally it feels like it denies the protagonists of their agency. When so many deaths and loss were “meant to happen”, it detracts from the despair the characters face - the regret and ‘if only-s’, the idea that it could have been avoided.

[@carl_consumer.of.reality]

Exactly. They're basically just saying "Yeah none of that really mattered. All that pain and loss? We knew it would happen and just watched, testing you." It just rids of any meaning in their journey up until then.

[@cgm7454]

Yea they are idiots like they would have let the fake shredder kill utroms come back to earth and make the timeline real where he won and controls earth

[@Luka1180]

I feel it depends on whether or not it’s the point. Like, it can be done amazingly well, like in BIONICLE where everything I the Matoran Universe is literally, or most of it, are literally failsafes put in place by the creators of that “universe.”

[@kristofgriffin384]

I was always incredibly confused as to why the cliffhanger from season 4 was never followed-up on, why and the series decided to go in a different direction with "Fast Forward". Even more confused when "Back to the Sewers" started airing and had no clue who this Demon Shredder was. It wasn't until 2014 when I discovered season 5 on KZbin.

[@Jmgjgdjd5]

season 6 also has an episode featuring the Ninja Tribunal, where you confused about that?

[@kristofgriffin384]

@@Jmgjgdjd5 Yes. I also noticed them at April and Cassy's wedding, but I just chalked it up as me accidentally missing a few episodes.

[@josephalexander8614]

Jmgjgdjd5 are you talking about when the turtles found a book and read it? Leo’s story about thinking that karai was going to betray him then he gets excommunicated from the Tribunal?

[@Jmgjgdjd5]

@@josephalexander8614 yes

[@ronjoe17]

Wow… Rise of the TMNT really was influenced a lot by TMNT 2003 season 5 - though, Rise definitely streamlined the lore a bit and made all the mystic stuff connect a bit better. Still, this was a cool precursor to that, and it was cool to learn about that version’s inspiration

[@monicasalasviquez673]

2003 definetly fathered A LOT of elements that were later on repeated (one way or the other) in nickelodeons TMNT versions, both 2012 and 2018. Just like you mentioned they both included a 'resurrect a dead/demonic/mystic shredder' and among several other stuff, such as 2012 doing cameos and referencing all tmnt lore along the years. When i first started to learn about Rise, my first thought was 'oh, this is some '03 S5 kinda thing, cool'.

[@caoimhinmccann4449]

While this show isn't perfect, I absolutely admire it and I think it's amazing. It's also my favourite iteration of TMNT across all the various media. There's just something about it. Even the last two seasons, while not as good as the first five are still enjoyable to watch and Turtles Forever is such a fun and nostalgic film.

[@meloetta7545]

Me: (seeing this unlisted video in this playlist) Yeah!!! XD

[@shardz8842]

lmao

[@shardz8842]

@LAW we just have access to the patreon

[@ashtonkamien8542]

I like your logo a Merry Christmas

[@smartass0124]

Wonder if The Demon Shredder Came from atlinties

[@daltonweakly]

I feel like the acolytes could’ve been a bit better if the other 4 were characters we knew like Usagi or their Tryceraton friend

[@RhapsodyHC]

That sounds like a great idea. I would’ve loved to see Usagi and Traximus come back for Season 5 and as acolytes too. That would’ve been perfect.

[@frankiejones7858]

Ong terragi was the only good one but he still kept getting his shii rocked where Leo had to take his sword 💀 but they were randos that were useless

[@autobotproductions1244]

not a bad idea. Usagi, Traximus, J'anna, just a few ideas. heck, maybe even Karai, since she has knowledge of the Shredder

[@navilluscire2567]

Honestly I like the idea of introducing new characters instead of reusing old, existing ones for new roles, makes the setting feel ironically less contrived and more believable. I think they should've made this a full season with around the usually 26 episodes maybe atleast one extra one for the final showdown. That way it would've given the writers near plenty of opportunities to flesh out the other four acolytes, delve into their backstories, create interesting, fun dynamics between them and the turtles, and it's just nice seeing characters getting along with great chemistry. I mean these four humans atleast impressed the Ninja Tribunal enough to think it worth training them for the upcoming potential apocalyptic struggle, even if the turtles were their main interest. Actually I wouldn't have minded if they played a key role in taking down the tengu shredder, something that the Ninja tribunal hadn't foresaw. I am not a fan of the whole recontextualized, recon that came with the chosen ones aspect for the turtles because that ruined the refreshing storytelling of the series were the turtles weren't seemingly the center of everything and were just finding themselves caught up in the middle of already unfolding stories that technically didn't need them there to happen. Atleast with the fleshing out and critical role the 4 human acolytes could've played it would show or prove that the Ninja Tribunal was wrong to just blindly trust their visions and prophecies, this salvaging that little sinking ship of plot contrivances. Also the Ninja Tribunal shouldn't have come back to life, atleast not fully but since they're mystical as f*ck I'd be ok with them coming back as ghosts like Yoshi, aiding their 4 human acolytes in the final battle after realizing their mistakes and empowering their students for one last magical, spiritual assault on the tengu shredder, after the battle they'd fade away also but not before bestowing the mantle of Tribunal onto the 4 human acolytes with the Ancient One to lead or guide them.

[@humpitywithdumpity]

@@autobotproductions1244 how I’d wish jhanna made another appearance in the show, her and Donatello had a heartwarming bond

[@JulietStMoon]

24:40 I feel like the Ultrom Shredder line was something they added to not confuse the audience between the Ultrom Shredder and True Shredder, so they felt being clear was more important than making canonical sense. It's sloppy and stupid, but I feel that was probably their thinking while writing that scene.

[@MrGeo-EmitFodrol]

Dude your retrospectives are amazing. The material you choose to review is top notch. I'd love to see your retrospectives on Spiderman and Xmen TAS, Spectacular Spiderman, Xmen Evolution, Teen Titans, Avatar TLAB, HeMan 2002, Jackie Chan Adventures and Young Justice. I can keep going but these stay inline with your other videos. Both The Timmverse and TMNT 03 were stables of my childhood and I still rewatch them. I think it's awesome that all these shows hold up well because most 80s cartoons did not. The jump in quality between 80s cartoons vs 90s and early 00s is remarkable.

[@TheEnigmaticBM39]

Everyone has been asking for him to do gargoyles since it has alot more in common with TMNT 03

[@warlockghovat5745]

The thing that bugged me most about this season was the use of the word tengu to label all the demons. They should have used yokai or oni instead. Tengu are their own uniquely distinct class of yokai, that are often depicted as human shaped crows or old men with red faces and long noses. Both depictions tend to wear priest clothes.

[@KairuHakubi]

monster/ghost/demon terminology is completely fucked across the pacific, but you are still right, tengu are just not.. this. for one thing, tengu are generally good, and understood to be the ones who taught humanity lots of useful stuff like martial arts. But then again this is around the time when censors were getting hip to words' meanings, hence Mamono being changed to Mamodo in Gash Bell's "Zatch Bell" dub.. so they probably couldn't have gotten away with 'akuma' or anything.

[@navilluscire2567]

*"Oni Shredder"* does have a nice sounding ring to it. I mean the original demon was basically a big, metallic orge-like beast.

[@zemox2534]

Yokai Shredder better as well.

[@azreth7190]

"not like golf clubs and hockey sticks are going to cut it against demons" True, but if he had a chainsaw and more one-liners...

[@seanmansfield4853]

An early Christmas gift. I'm super interested in the lore behind these being "lost" because I distinctly remember seeing the advertisements on TV for the big bad "lost season found in the vaults" and me and my dad (since he watched TMNT with me) being super hype for these mysterious "lost episodes" but I never knew what the gimmick was with them being lost.

[@smartass0124]

Maybe the Demon Shredder Came from atlinties

[@bethanymcmurtrey9542]

Watching this retrospectives, it's ridiculous just how little agency the Turtles in their own shows. Rarely do the Turtles have things happen because of their own choices, most of their actions are driven by family legacy, stumbling upon already occurring happenings, or other actions

[@IamaPERSON]

That's a good observation. I like it because it makes the world feel more alive.

[@heavydonkeykong5190]

Yeah, they are definetly reactionaries.

[@Fatboyftw32]

To be fair they kinda live in a sewer, things kinda would have to come to them, especially at first. There's a fun line in the IDW comics where the Turtles are talking and one of them is like: "Well let's just let things come to us." and Donnie is like: "We live in a sewer, what are you talking about?" And then the Mousers attack, oops.

[@levesteM]

Tbf, that's the case with most superhero media. The villains are usually the ones kickstarting the plot, while the heroes react and try to stop them.

[@HellecticMojo]

Villains act, heroes react. It's generally how plots go.

[@Elfos64]

I like how this "interesting premise, bad execution" season got salvaged with the "Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" series. Rise of the TMNT had a demon Shredder dating back hundreds of years and a long line of protectors that included Hamato Yoshi who made sure to keep him at bay.

[@Hawkatana]

I have a theory for why the other Acolytes are there. The initial plan was for them to have more toys to sell, but this fell through when season 5 never aired.

[@yux.tn.3641]

just went to a toy shop yesterday and everywhere was jurassic world dinosaur toys hate it

[@Depth217]

I remember growing so impatient for the season that it was the first time I really looked something up on KZbin. Naturally I went right to the final episode. And honestly I think the final battle where all the heroes and villains team up against the Tengu Shredder is really awesome. Would’ve loved more of that. Season was darker but not so much in Season 4’s grisly, visceral sense. More like the stakes and drama were at an all-time high or something.

[@AntonDDimov]

True.Season 5 is like the culmination of the previous ones.

[@mortenwarrer-madsen5249]

Just adding to that the sword of tengu was from the very first season, a mystical sword with wierd magic powers. It just adds to the feeling that the story actually was thought through. Grew up with the 2003 series and love the TMNT. Keep the videos coming

[@dwainsimmons3447]

Scottie Ray is awesome voicing the 3 incarnations of the Shredder!

[@bryceknowles1380]

Indeed he did, he was an absolute BOSS playing Shred head

[@IamaPERSON]

Right!?

[@smashmaster521]

Do you expect any less from the voice of the Hell Kaiser?

[@dwainsimmons3447]

@@smashmaster521 it’s like Dan Green will always be the voice of the Pharaoh.

[@karissarasmussen567]

So does this mean that Scottie Ray is the True Shredder 😮😮😮

[@Rman94]

I think the other acolytes's backstories could've been improved a bit by having them being members of the Guardians, staying behind on Earth when the Utroms left, tasked with dismantling the Foot clan's operations in Japan and around the world, then just continuing to fighting crime, injustice, and other grave threats like the Turtles do. Eventually being "recruited" by the Ninja Tribunal with the Turtles. Foreseeing that at least one of the two teams would be destined to defeat the Tengu Shedder once and for all. As for them coming back to life I think it could've worked better if the Ninja Tribunal gave up their material forms to bring them back to repay both them and the Turtles for their efforts.

[@autobotproductions1244]

that would actually work super well

[@kidprime6863]

@@autobotproductions1244 I agree

[@richardperaza5083]

There’s actually a comment somebody said that they wished that some of the TMNT characters that were previously shown were the acolytes which isn’t a bad idea

[@leithaziz2716]

Interestingly enough, I don't remember much about my thoughts regarding Fast Forward. I do remember enjoying it, so it'll be interesting re-examining it with the next retrospective. You'll probably get more enjoyment out of it if you see it as its own thing like a spin-off. Anyway, great video.

[@IAMTHESTARMAN]

So something interesting that happens in the video game adaptation is that they show that Ch’rell wore an armor with Shredder-like motif before they arrived on Earth. It can be posited that Ch’rell caused the crash landing on Earth so that he could meet/become his hero.

[@sorewasore9730]

After watching this season I'd low-key wonder if the earlier ideas were that it was supposed to be made in the usual 20+ episodes format, but due to some interferences they had to cut it short to 12 episodes, and eventually, after getting more disapprovals it became a sort of passion project for the production team (and anyone involved) to just finish it off, like at least give them the satisfaction that they have attempted a conclusive ending after how they left off the TMNT at the end of season 4. That could explain the extra acolytes (maybe the original intention was to show more friendship forging as some downtime episodes, and lead them to take more significant roles), the lack of care in reviewing possible plot holes that could affect the storytelling (hoo boi, poor Splinter), reusing old animation without adapting them to the 'current' atmosphere (eg: colouring) of the newer scenes, the rushed feel of the arc's story at times... or yeah, this is just my wishful thinking that maybe the creators and staff did wished they could do more, but in the end they couldn't, so they had to make do with what they could, in the best way possible. Despite that, I think they still did a pretty good job. While there's a lot I disliked (eg: where the heck is Leatherhead???), there's still a lot I loved from this season. The dragons and Hamato Yoshi's spirit avatar moments were pretty WTF but gosh, it was just so cool that you could forgive the ridiculousness, especially with cathartic scenes like the dragon turtles beating up dragon Shredder, and when Dragon Donatello bodyslamming Shredder (biggest smile on my face). I do have some gripes similar to yours, but I'd just shrug it off with some 'excuses' I could think up in my head, like Leo not having his own sword (well, we already have that episode way early in season 1 where Splinter teaches that the skills of the 'master' matter more than the weapon), and the Ninja Tribunal so-called knowing 'everything' (perhaps the Ninja Tribunal are high-leveled mystical beings, but they aren't exactly gods either, so it's not that they knew all along that everything will go according to fate, it's that they see the turtles as an ultimate means of defeating the Tengu Shredder, but in order to let that ideal fate happen they thought that the best way to make that route play out is to keep watch and 'hope for the best' lol) The casual "Yes, Mikey, you deserve at least a good meal after all of that shit you had to go through" closing was just so nice, so... TMNT. My most favourite ending out of all of the TMNT series I've watched because of how everyone stayed true to their character and developments up until the end... until Fast Forward ruined that *coughs (tbh there are things about FF I actually like but... yeah that's another story)

[@agentorange5632]

I think your correct about it being a passion project. I read several years ago that Peter Larid put some of his own money forward to complete production on the fifth season. Maybe it was his blog or some behind the scenes 4kids article, but I wish I could remember where that was stated.

[@skyray16]

There's a theory that Chrell's imprisonment on ice asteroid was created very late into production and original idea was to execute him by disintegration. The animation makes sense, Karai's later motivation makes more sense, and I believe utrom council lips are actually not synced to the words they say. If this plot point stayed to the final cut, season 5 finale would have even more resolve and be even better finish to the saga.

[@cubescihist6737]

I wonder if they thought the desintegration was too violent for a kid show.

[@maldon3659]

@@cubescihist6737 that makes no sense considering the things they do in season 4 with Insane In The Membrane

[@cubescihist6737]

@@maldon3659 I agree.

[@ismaelbauman2156]

In any case. Ch’rell being banished to an ice asteroid still works as a final fate for him to suffer. If you didn’t want him to come back. Also yeah the idea that outright killing was considered too violent for a kids show is flawed because not only would the disintegration animation be left intact. But also Ch’rell actually does die in turtles forever.

[@glitch164]

Having the combined spirit of the turtles to be Master Yoshi was perfect. Especially giving Splinter one last chance to see his friend.

[@dannybob42]

So I love this season, it had its off the wall moments for sure, but I actually loved how there was so little filler in it, every episode felt valid, it was dark and fantastical (which definitely hit some good notes in my BTAS/Gargoyles loving nostalgia). I can understand your criticism of the acolytes, but perhaps the better way to look at them is as motivators for the turtles, after all each turtle establishes a friendly rivalry with the other, which pushes them to work harder too

[@NCHProductions]

I'm just gonna assume syndication didn't deliver this season to singapore's broadcasting and they skip to fast forward without showing this season at all.... unless I'm wrong... cause I really wasn't up to date on the turtles at the tail end of season4 missing episodes here and there back when its airing on our free to air channel....

[@NCHProductions]

and I had no idea season 5 escalate to beyond what I would expect from this series.... lol dragon avatars and kaiju battle D:

[@alzoruledura7416]

Ohai NCH!

[@DeanAmx]

Not just singapore, probably all other countries as well. I also didnt see season 5 in malaysia. They directly goes from season 4 to fast forward. I was kinda confused back then. “Did tv3 skips things again?”

[@jyodee_3159]

same! I only found the lost season on KZbin when I was procrastinating for my O levels. I could recall many other episodes from different seasons when I was rewatching it on YT, but for the lost season, it was like I was watching it for the first time.

[@MrDrew2220]

@@DeanAmx I have a dvd of season 5 that calls it never “before seen” so I assume it was some sort of straight to dvd release

[@TheLastBabyMan]

Tmnt 2003 has a solid 5 seasons from my point of view, more good seasons than any other Tmnt show. It didn't need anymore, especially Fast Forward/BTTS. But I would love for it to make a return someday.

[@videoquez]

So if there's one takeaway: I think it's that children's shows from the early 2000s had more thought & consistency than their contemporary "mature" shows, like LOST

[@ThePreciseClimber]

Ch'rell: "Ah, that Oroku Saki guy was so bitchin'!"

[@charleshardesty1828]

J I'm new to your channel & am really enjoying the nostalgia blast that is these TMNT reviews! I watched the '80s turtles reruns when I was really young, but the '00s era turtles are MY turtles! I watched EVERY episode of it's original run weekly on Saturday mornings, if I was gonna miss it for some reason I taped it on VCR!

[@NivekBe]

I just want to say i am loving these Retrospective videos, watching these brings back so many memories! i loved this series and wish it was easy to watch it again, i would love to get a full DVD collection but they dont have one :(

[@SorenDaein]

During the "Ninja Tribunal" arc, Mikey actually makes a rather fitting comment. He comes out with "We've been Shanghaied!" in response to finding out he, Leo, Raph, and Donnie along with the four other warriors Joy, Adam, Tora, and Firagi were on a boat. Reason I say it was fitting since they were put on a boat against their will and are headed to a different place entirely.

[@ekaterinakarelova1561]

when is the next video coming up? i love them so much, thank you for your hardwork

[@Turo602]

One thing that always bothered me about the finale was the lack of Leatherhead. He was just randomly absent from the fight. It's not like he was off Earth.

[@HORRIOR1]

Aaah... THIS is what was missing from my Christmas celebration.

[@twonio]

Season five is about as far as I got with the show, cause I figured fast forward wouldn't suit my tastes (and I was right). But maybe you can sell it to me this time. Anyways, it's been great seeing you cover a show that is so dear to me in such detail!

[@PGW85Productions]

It’s been fantastic to see this retrospective, it’s brought me back to this show I haven’t seen in a while, and definitely made me feel vindicated on enjoying it into my early adult years, plus the nostalgia is very enjoyable. Though now that his video on TMNT FF has aired, I must ask, how do you feel about it now?

[@twonio]

@@PGW85Productions Yes, I agree! I really enjoyed this retrospective myself. Sadly though, even having seen J's video, I feel the same way about FF. Maybe I view it a little more favourably now, but I still think I'll skip out on it

[@JWIZ92698]

When's the next video? Been waiting for the fast forward video!

[@mathewhaight]

I think the thing that bothers me the most about the foot logo is that it always made sense to be that it was based off of Utrom shredders head spikes. Now apparently is just a coincidence. Then there's the fact that Shredder's original helmet did not look like his modern day one, but the ninja council just has the modern-day shredder helmets.

[@IAMTHESTARMAN]

Also, adding to my last comment, Silver Sentry’s source of super power could probably be traced back to the canister of mutagen. Because if you watch the origin told here, it was a young black boy that saves an old man from crossing. In the original story, it was a young blonde boy who went on to become Daredevil.

[@autobotproductions1244]

Wow. Now that’s pretty cool

[@AntonDDimov]

What matt murdock has anything to do with this .

[@autobotproductions1244]

@@AntonDDimov the original TMNT origin story is an homage to Daredevils

[@blackphoenix77]

This was the TMNT series that got closest to the original Mirage Comics, so it will always be my favorite. By the way, I never really liked the idea of multiple versions of the Shredder on this show, especially the idea of the Utrom Shredder. Also, if the Turtles got all of those powers, why didn't they ever use them again after these episodes? (If they did, I don't remember)

[@digitaltailsmon4096]

I definitely remembered this season as advertised as the "Lost Season" even remember the commercial for it as a explosion happens and they advertise finding the episodes inside. Made it feel hyped. Which to be honest I liked since this season is weird. On one hand the bizarre ideas it presents from magic, to demons, to sorcery is really cool but also feels out of place especially for a show that has been grounded so far. On the other hand seeing many character arcs end, characters change attitudes and seeing almost every evil force and good force in this show team up with the Turtles is just badass especially bringing in the super hero element with Mikey in a nice way. Also I will never not love hearing Scotty Ray play the Shredder weather its the Utram Version or the Tango Version, it's just a treat. I do agree with many of your complaints especially the you were all suppose to end up doing this because we foresaw it idea which is dumb and weakens an element I was agreeing with you all season. Anyway I am excited to hear your thoughts on Fast Forward, as I mentioned before it's the season of the show I have the most nostalgia for and while it is the most how do I put it 4kids of all the seasons it is also very creative and also just a season with some cool elements so I am interested to see how you feel for it.

[@smartass0124]

Maybe the Demon Shredder Came from atlinties

[@ericcaballero1165]

"Grounded" is not the word I'd use to describe the rest of the show.

[@digitaltailsmon4096]

@@ericcaballero1165 No but like in terms of the abilities the turtles have.

[@brucebanana4486]

I feel this season kinda jump the Dragon. I wasn't really a huge fan of them turning into dragons. I'm okay with them having mystic weapons, but them turning into a dragon is too far for me. Some things don't sit right with me like J's pointing out with Splitter knowing Ultron Shredder.

[@ShadowEclipex]

I remember when 4Kids finally decided to air season 5, they made a big even out of it which was super exciting as a kid.

[@sagittariusseiya8310]

Yep.

[@accomplishedbelt7hollowsno21]

The final part where you explained the fight against the real shredder is one of the funniest things I've seen watching this channel Maybe it's because I've never watched the show myself but the breakneck pace things where explained was hilarious lol

[@baldyairkid1831]

ACCOMPLISHEDBELT? THE TWITTER GUY?

[@Doddser]

Having gone on a recent Ben 10 craze, and hearing you mention Alien X - it just makes me want a Ben 10 Series Retrospective (OG - Omniverse) from you

[@smashmaster521]

He may do that one day...and I would be all for it.

[@HollylandProductions]

Tmnt 2003 is my most favorite tmnt series as it's something that I watched for years now.

[@savagedarksider5934]

We should have gotten A crossover between TMNT 2003 and TMNT 2012.

[@maldon3659]

Yes and I already have a plot outline: The 2012 turtles have defeated Shredder but lost Splinter, they're at home in their Lair when suddenly they are transported to the 2003 universe by 2003 Baxter Stockman who is working for Agent Bishop as this story takes place during season 4, unfortunately for Stockman something goes wrong and the 2012 Turtles end up on a building in New York instead of his lab, they quickly capture the attention of both the Foot Clan and The Purple Dragons who think they're the 2003 Turtles, before they receive help From the 2003 Turtles, Casey Jones and April O. Neil, who of course 2012 Donnie immediately crushes on, 2003 Turtles are confused by the appearance of 2012 Turtles especially how small they are by comparison but take them back to their lair where they meet 2003 Splinter who is just as confused by the 2012 Turtles especially when they hug him, it's then the 2012 Turtles reveal that their Splinter died at the hands of The Shredder, the 2003 characters are all surprised by this

[@kingdomtrue7008]

This season is probably what set the idea of the more mystic style rise used

[@agonizingstarbutterfly1184]

The only good thing the season is good for.

[@jedisage20]

The coolest thing for me, as a Leo fan, was the fact that he simply did not NEED a shiny new magic weapon. In the episode right after all the other acolytes, including his brothers, get their new weapons, Leo is able to manifest his spirit into that of a goddamn dragon. He could do that while his brothers on the other hand, weren't able to manifest a spirit creature at all. Of course they all turned into dragons for the final battle against the true Shredder but it was still cool while it lasted, the notion that Leo was already so powerful inside that just like the Tribunal, he just didn't need a magic weapon.

[@RoninCatholic]

One of my favorite notes on the turtles is one the franchise as a whole manages to subtly convey, intentionally or otherwise. Mikey is the most talented turtle in terms of weapon proficiency, as his Mirage Comics character blurb box said in one of the early comics. Some examples: - He uses nunchaku as his primary weapon. These are weapons with a very high skill floor compared to those his brothers use and many weaknesses with few advantages. Do not hit as hard as plain sticks like the bo staff (though they give a little less arm shock on impact when they do impart that energy), not as nimble or controllable as the knife-sized sai, no sharp edges, fairly high chance of rebounding and hitting the user. Most of these weaknesses are shared with other chain/flail type weapons in general, but most of those have other very strong strengths to compensate (entangling or _a lot_ of power). - He is always the first turtle to swap out to a new weapon. Abandons the nunchucks entirely a few seasons into the 87 series and carries a grappling hook around for non-combat purposes, switches to tonfa in The Next Mutation, and so on. He is never any less adept with the new weapon than he was with his previous main. He is in fact a master of the primary weapons of all three of his brothers and uses intentionally worse weapons as a self-imposed challenge pretty often, rather than disciplining himself and doubling down. As you said about the early episode of this season with the super ninja training, talented but undisciplined.

[@bishopm.3134]

I remember watching these as a kid, I still have the dvds for the enter the dragon season

[@darthvader7888]

I think the point of the whole weapon thing was that Leo didn't need one. The tribunal guy said that the dragon's flame would incinerate the unworthy. But that's not what happened when Leo approached it. Instead, the flame backed off. Almost as if it was saying "I am not worthy of you."

[@MusfirahAsim-db4um]

Exactly. I always wonder why so many people argue/wonder why Leo didn’t get a weapon, and especially that it’s because of his “lack or self-confidence/worth” when it was made clear he would’ve been incinerated if that was the case. I was honestly glad Leo didn’t get a weapon because of nostalgias sake. I can’t imagine him fully using a different weapon for half a season. Besides, he was fine without it and might have been too powerful with, since as we saw, he was very strategic/helpful when using gunshen.

[@Rman94]

I think this season inspired a lot of what was used/done with "TMNT Rise of the turtles" mystic ninja stuff.

[@harrisonblock]

One of my favourite Stockman lines is one of his last- "Why can't I ever be left to expire in peace?"

[@TheUnseenPath]

You're a leo fan, superman and batman? A man of culture.

[@Anime_Stand_5]

30:49 YES, THANK YOU That’s what I wanted from that Finale

[@LadyDinoCrisis]

Despite the nitpicks that you mentioned of Season 5, I really enjoyed it. Loved the dragon designs of the turtles! When you mentioned possible allies who could've joined the turtles in the battle against the Tengu Shredder, I really would've loved to see the return of Usagi, the friendly Triceratons led by Traximus and Leatherhead. Not sure if this was confirmed, but I like to believe that Yoshi's spirit brought Leo back to his family in "Tales of Leo". Again, thanks for the retrospective of TMNT 2003.

[@cartoonking1789]

To me, this is where the show ended for me. The “Turtles Forever” thing was a special.

[@yatfailam7991]

TMNT Mirage comic is definitely dark and wild, to expose the true color on TV, that's how new writers construct wild imagination as the element of this series. Also. TMNT 2012 is dark too.

[@Chrollo_Lucilfer]

I just binged your why TMNT 2003 is so good! And loved it all, so nostalgic and just remembered I had all the turtles, shredder and the turtle truck with the little pew pews on the side. Thankyou for the effort. How much time did you spend watching all of these over again for studies? However much it was I tip my metaphorical hat to you my good sir.

[@Tradetek1]

U forgot to mention that the epic plot that started all the way from season 1, Mikey finally joined the team! Dude joined the justice force in season 5 only allowed to go night watching once-twice a year lmao.

[@gundambassexe31]

Merry Christmas j reviews. This was a hectic season

[@djules01]

Am I the only one that's been waiting week to week for these analyses of the ninja turtles? Thanks, J's Reviews!

[@petertilton7004]

Can't wait for part 6, New villains and such like Triple Threat and the Dark Turtles. Also, 4kids never aired GX Season 4, certain episodes of Pokemon, the final arc of 5d's and the third season of Tai-chi chasers but they allowed body mutilation from TMNT?

[@majinya6199]

Well the thing with GX is konami rushed 4Kids into dubbing 5DS to promote the new cards, And 5DS never finished because 4Kids got caught up in a lawsuit with the production company of the anime and weren't paying proper royalities or something to them, Long story but yeah both were out of 4Kids control with those.

[@sagittariusseiya8310]

@@majinya6199 Shame.

[@OmegablueWolf]

I am probably wrong here but Fast Forward was pretty fun...then again i love Sci-fi and turtles so comboing both longer term is awesome to me. I have never actually -seen- season 5 except for bits and pieces.

[@stabbie2490]

This was one of my favorite seasons

[@thomasjohnson1885]

I remember watching the finale to the “lost season” on 4kids when Iwas younger, I didn’t understand what was going on but it was so epic and grand that I loved it.

[@sagittariusseiya8310]

Me too.

[@zsjdddfw]

The biggest issue I had with this season was that I felt that the characters who knew everything refrained from telling the audience what was going on not because how mystic/complicated things were, but the writer hadn't figured out clearly how to put all the lore together in a coherent way.

[@gumerzambrano]

Can't wait for your Fast Forward review! Loved that season as a kid

[@christianfrost8660]

Then I would be very worried if I were you. I sense nothing but a barrage of insults and critiques coming. I even bet instead of saying the highlight episodes, he says the least worst episodes of the series. I still love FF is was so funny and out there but the main story still felt like it had the same stakes as the three Shredders gave us. The Darius Story was inspired, making a villain that they weren't allowed to punch for most of the series. The President Bishop arc was beautiful and the main story was terrifying. And while Cody was a bit bland, just a combo of April's genius and Casey's love of fighting, I think everyone can agree that Serling was hysterical.

[@autobotproductions1244]

Nice work as always. look forward to seeing your Fast Forward, BTTS, and Turtles Forever reviews

[@RhapsodyHC]

The biggest problem with the season is how short it is. Only 12 Episodes left the new characters kinda underdeveloped and I felt nothing when they “died”. However, the epic battles in New World Order and Enter the Dragons are so epic that it makes up for it TBH. Edit: I think a cool idea to make the acolytes more developed is to show their background and why they were chosen. They had family according to the Ninja Tribunal, but were never shown or mentioned much. The TMNT were chosen by the Tribunal because they could see demons, so I wonder why the other 4 were chosen. Perhaps if we gotten a story of them defeating a demon or something supernatural, it would’ve made more sense. Otherwise, I think it would’ve been best to have Traximus, Usagi, and 2 others instead.

[@painvillegaming4119]

19:49 petition for a ben 10 retrospective

[@ebensennett3095]

I heard you say Alien X at 19:51, as a Ben 10 fan that pleases me to no end!

[@DragonStar524]

I think the reason Leo didn't get a new weapon was because the forge saw his weapons as already powerful because Leo made them strong in his own right. But I still agree that Leo should've gotten Furaji's weapon.

[@texteel]

I dont remember Leo not getting a weapon ever being explained. It seems you dont know it either. Damn. I was really hoping it was just a case of me having missed it

[@gadielphilip]

I actually wasn't aware that TMNT 2003 existed. I grew up watching the 80's or 90's TMNT cartoons on a channel called Ktv( K-world) that broadcasts from south Africa on DSTV (btw im from Tanzania) after a few years I jumped straight into TMNT fast forward aka season 6/5 and I thought that it wasn't just a random season but the whole show. Im gonna have so much fun binge it all today and relive that early 2000's nostalgia

[@KaimArgonarEyyyy]

S5 really do be the lost season for me. It's the season I've seen the least of/least amount of times, so this retrospective is all the more interesting.

[@bmatthews12]

Dude, I love your commentary. You really put a lot of time into this. Keep it up.

[@berniedavis6676]

I love the Demon shredder story. he's a really fun villain. though episode one of Back to the Sewers had 3 shredders in it. the demon, the alien, and the cyber shredder. and that's a bit overkill on the shredder. thought the dark tmnt was awesome in Fast Forward.

[@navilluscire2567]

The demon Shredder just loves being evil for its own sake, atleast with the utrom Shredder he still had more specific goals beyond wanton mayhem, though he definitely enjoyed causing misery along the way, still an evil little squid-head monster.

[@berniedavis6676]

@@navilluscire2567 utrom shredder was the best of 87 shredder and krang put together. though cyber shredder was just pointless.

[@navilluscire2567]

@@berniedavis6676 Yeah, he's definitely one of my favorite incarnations of the Shredder. As for the cyber Shredder I actually kinda like the idea of it, but the execution was definitely lacking and by that point in the series everyone was pretty much Shredded out with the whole constant return of their old foe.

[@berniedavis6676]

@@navilluscire2567 indeed. that's why i like fast forward. we got a different foe for the turtles to deal with.

[@navilluscire2567]

@@berniedavis6676 Yeah Darius Dunn was definitely a refreshing enemy, the cunning,manipulative, sleazy businessman who on the surface is known as a champion of humanitarian or *"sentientarian"* causes and highly respected philanthropist who in reality perverted the legacy of April and Casey by way of secret, illegal arms dealing and manufacturing using the very company that is known for its strict adherence to only pursuing technology that promotes peace and healing was deliciously ironic. He really made a great villain you could hate but also understand why he's gone so long without getting caught, an intelligent foe even the turtles found challenging to bust and convincing Cody of his uncle's vile, true nature was an interesting arc.

[@edwardbo4666]

Etac frisk: just because they knew the events would happen doesn't change anything, As a chronomancer, I can attest to that.

[@josephalexander8614]

The way I remember it, in the middle of the original fast forward run they released the nano episode from season 5 calling it a “lost episode”. I remember It feeling really out of place. 1 because the animation went back to pre-fast forward 2. Why are they trying to get in touch with the Justice Force to handle the shredder? He’s already defeated. But then it made sense when the episode aired in correct order along with the other season 5 episodes

[@Klonoahedgehog]

I have no idea if this was intentional but when your explaining how the ending of the season recontextualizes the show in a bad way and the music playing in the background in the reveal the truth music from Professor layton vs Ace Attorney, a game where the ending tries to recontextualize everything but it stumbles really badly doing it is neat.

[@Besnardm]

I always thought the season jump was weird, and now I finally know what happened in this lost season! Fantastic video mate, keep up the great work

[@trentblender3318]

i appreciate you doing this man i haven’t watched season 5-7 but this gave me a good starting point to interpret this finale season.

[@GrayFoxHound9]

This season felt so weird when i finally got to it. We had that awesome setup at the season 4 end just to have fantasy story about beating evil evil and softest magic spirit power; that consists mostly of exposition and the end of intro scene of x-man where everyone runs on everyone but with lots of angles and TMNT characters. To this day i don't have a proper reference to compare this season to. Last 4 episodes of Samurai Jack season 5 perhaps? Naruto fillers? What had happened? Bishop and Stockman were great though.

[@Fourmath]

Can't wait for the next video. Fast Forward is my second favorite season of the show behind the first

[@broleo4986]

Growing up I remember season 5 not airing and then airing after the future arc and IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW. As a kid I thought it was super weird and that I just missed it on Saturday morning

[@tom_price]

In AUS, I definitely remember watching Insane in the Membrane on TV. It really stuck with me and I just remember how sad that episode was. I love how dark season 4 gets! Season 5 went straight to DVD here as well. They seemed to give it a decent DVD release but S4 and S3 DVDs went under the radar for some reason and were so much harder to get!!

[@roberttorres9360]

Chr'ell was watching in background the true shedder for years .. And watching the true shedders demise.. Gave him the idea resurrect the shedder , His version ..

[@harrietr.5073]

I don't remember this TMNT much (grew up on TMNT 12, so I'm unnerved by the Uutron being good guys), but I remember this series as a very young child from a scene from the future season, and the first episode I saw, the garbage man episode with the living junk machine who stole their "mama". Legit made me cry.

[@sethcarlow8363]

thanks for the review it was awesome and fun.