The loudspeaker "Toe-in" Rule

[@ubacow7109]

If you have speaker measurements on hand that show show directivity, its a lot easier than eying the toe-in by ear & sitting position

[@RecoveryoneDrone]

It put's a smile on my face to see you understanding the concepts I was telling you years ago. Room size, speaker positions can play a major role in the enjoyment of ones system.

[@derekpotrykus8139]

I truly enjoy your content. The reason is because you speak clearly, use layman's terms and you do your research and practice before you make the video. Thank you very much.

[@Kpaceguy]

@@derekpotrykus8139 I greatly appreciate it! Thanks for watching.

[@ernsttech5255]

always useful videos

[@garyausten5939]

Even though I bought Octave Record's "The Speaker" by Paul at PS Audio (book and SACD), I've been consistently altering my speaker positions in my ~13x16 bedroom/HT and my auditory issues (for which I probably need hearing aids) I find that my Klipsch RP600M2s sound best pointed straight ahead with no toe-in on the left and probably about 5% or so on the right when I'm sitting in my singular chair against the back wall with my TV/stereo in-between (7.2.4) The Klipsch manual has a graphic showing a direct toe-in to the listener. I guess I'm a bit of a rebel :) I generally use the speakers for TV, movies and jazz and classical music.

[@AbsoluteFidelity]

Some facts. Toeing some speakers out make them 'disappear' way more easily. Toeing speakers out will give you more room interaction, and it can be a good or a bad thing. Most coaxials are meant to be heard with minimal toe in due to diffraction issues. If you have your speakers close together (i.e less than 6 fee) toeing them out usually helps with stereo separation. If you have a beamy speaker, toeing in will help with tonality. Most horn speakers work optimally when toed in.

[@willgatlin8229]

I have the Klipsch-KP-8000 and they fire straight straight ahead for my best sound. This system is in my bedroom! Now my front room system is Monster Elagonza spks that sit on a steel moving base that lets me turn my tweets/mids to my sweet spot! It works well! Thx! 0:15

[@Victor-i4g4u]

I don’t have to toe in my front speakers because the Twitter is toe in already

[@christopherwilson6825]

I have my Polk audio monitor 70 series 2 toe in. Several reasons. right side is by an open hallway as left side is by maintenance room. I live in an apartment plus my room is between 12 and 15 ft. Doing calibration and listening with my ears, I have great sound for my room. My speakers are toe in about five ears from extreme toe in. That sounds perfect for me. From Tweeter to Tweeter is 6 ft. Nothing like experimenting with your own products. And it's all free.

[@Cat33733]

Hi KPG. If I have a single tier multiple seating area, would I set the toe-in to the MLP only or make adjustments for the multiple seats?

[@Kpaceguy]

@Cat33733 Most people will tell you to make adjustments for the main listening position because you are the most important listener. I would, too. But if you often have people in those seats, they are off centered anyway, so toe in wouldn't work for them.

[@Cat33733]

Ok, great. Thank you

[@MrBonger88]

After experimenting with the big old horns I’m currently using I’ve found that toe-in of 10 degrees max works well. They start to sound too bright with anything more

[@toxin7883]

I do max toe in. I point the left one at the right seat of my couch and the right one at the left seat of my couch. Does an awesome job

[@Kpaceguy]

So why do you do that exactly? Left speaker pointed at right ear and right speaker pointed at left ear? Why not point the right speaker at right ear and vice versa?

[@toxin7883]

@@Kpaceguy so when you have a 3-5 seat couch in a small room (this may not affect large rooms nearly as much) and you are doing time alignment and distance the very edges of the couch typically lose some immersion. Sounds become localized to the speaker because those people are sitting closer to the speaker and more on axis. So I point the right speaker at where the right ear of the listener on the left most seat is and the left speaker at where the left ear of the farther right person would be. This ensures the concentrated on axis energy of the speakers make it to the farthest points in a way of dispersing the sound so everyone gets a similar surround effect. It works extremely well for 2 channel listening as well. This is why in car audio setups the a pillars facing cross each other is the best placement for tweeters in a small space. The smaller the space the greater the toe in. If you have a huge room it is much less necessary.

[@Kpaceguy]

@toxin7883 so how does that effect the main listening position?

[@toxin7883]

@@Kpaceguy it doesn’t. Once I set it that way and get a good 2 channel image from all my seats then I set up my surround as normal and it works like magic. Then the whole couch becomes the sweet spot.

[@mattgiunt]

Philharmonic speakers feature wide dispersion and only really work firing straight ahead. Sound like nothing Ive heard before in 30 years of speaker use.

[@darthopper7874]

How would I move speakers to move the sound stage to the right? Which speaker to toe in/out left//right?

[@Kpaceguy]

@darthopper7874 you don't move the speakers, move the balance. Turn the left speakers down a little.

[@dicmccoy]

Actually, spreading them wider for the 120% ratio, is the technically correct way for if you want the absolute best in Soundstage and imaging. To suggest not to have your speakers spread too wide is ludicrous. You can achieve proper summation if you know how to get your listening position correct for the 120% rule. Use the 83% rule if you want to favor tonality. How close or how far away the side walls are from the speakers, and how close or how far away the front wall and or tv is from the tv will determine the amount of toe in/out depending on dispersion characteristics of the speakers as well. Most people tend to set their system up on the short wall. I don't know why, the long wall is better. But because they are on the short wall, the side walls are very close and the speakers wide dispersion characteristics can and will cause unwanted reflections which are distortions. You can mitigate this by treating the side walls with acoustic treatment, or by extreme toe in. You cross the streams of the speakers in front you. So aim the left speaker at the listeners right shoulder, and right speaker at left shoulder. The front wall/tv needs to be some distance behind the plane of the speakers, so pull out the speakers at least 2-3 feet ahead of that plain where the tv lies.

[@Kpaceguy]

I think I said if they are outside your peripheral vision, that they are too wide. 100 degrees of vision from your seat is pretty darn wide, and most people don't even have a wall wide enough to expand past your vision.

[@dicmccoy]

@@Kpaceguy They generally do have a wide wall, they just set up on the short wall for some reason. The wide wall is more fruitful and then have it set up more nearfield vs farfield. Unless their room is basically a square vs a rectangle. Then there's going to be crazy modal issues. My last room was a square. It was a nightmare. DSP was my savior in that room. Peripheral vision, yes. I'm 120% ratio right now and, yes they are still in my vision. So you are correct on that part, keep them within your peripheral vision to make sure you don't go too wide. 👌

[@Kpaceguy]

@dicmccoy I had the option to put my theater in a much bigger room, but it's square vs. the rectangle it's in now, and sound wise, it's a way better option.

[@dicmccoy]

@@Kpaceguy great choice. Yeah, aftet dealing with both kinds, the rectangle is a blessing. 🙏

[@domeniccatalano-zs6xd]

Very good advice, I've been watching and liking your videos for quite some time now. I need your opinion. I know like you said try toe in and not. But are you familiar with definitive technology's 9080 towers? They're bipolar towers so im not sure weather i should or not. What do you think.

[@Kpaceguy]

Still try it. The point of the experiment is to see what gives you the best sound. The point of those towers is to bounce off the wall to give you a "bigger" wall of sound but if its too much or if the sound is unclear, try toe in OR don't toe them in but pull them off the wall a little.

[@domeniccatalano-zs6xd]

@Kpaceguy thanks, that's kinda the push I needed. After about 6 years of upgrading my system (7.3.4 w/anthem 1140 avr and amp for the front stage) I still just love it. And am allmost content with it, for now. I really appreciate your and other home theater videos. This is where I learn. Have a great day and have good luck with everything you do.

[@Kpaceguy]

@domeniccatalano-zs6xd I appreciate it my friend!

[@davidmckee2898]

I have Dali Speakers, and these tell you not to toe them in. As they have a wide dispersion. Even So I Will try a little bit. After all , my room is not a perfect room

[@ms03938]

i have dali to, in my room i like them wider apart fram eachother with some toe in. it sounds much better and can play louder even though they say you have more distortion toed in. to my likings the tweeter also is less painful for my ears sometimes when they are a bit toed in.

[@unies176]

I try avoiding wearing tight jeans

[@jp_booi7791]

Moved back into the old apartment I see, and got the old speakers back, and shaved, and got the old camera back, and got the old logo back. Very classy move

[@Kpaceguy]

@@jp_booi7791 missed the old life

[@patrickmeylemans9627]

Perifere vision is different for each person and a big difference between man and Woman….

[@baycchief3785]

There is "Toe-out" as well bro lol

[@Kpaceguy]

@baycchief3785 Well yes lol