THE MAGIC SANDING PLATE TRT#3

Details about my sanding plate and its uses.
#practitioner_of_the_mechanical_arts
Paypal donation www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...
Support through Patreon / robrenz
The 12" wide x 25 yard roll of 220 grit Silicon Carbide paper available from
Abrasives South Inc. 1-800-255-8112 #18014 abrasives-south.com/product/r... roughly $100.00

[@StefanGotteswinter]

18min video on a sanding plate? I watch and I am not disappointed :-) I have a toolmakerfriend who purposely puts a 45° lay on all his parts so he knows he worked on the parts when he pulls a tool apart a few years later.

[@ROBRENZ]

Glad I didn't dissapoint ;-) ATB, Robin

[@charlesbduke7947]

Lapidary company's sell a disc cement for sanding discs. But it's not much different from 77. I use regular rubber cement,it's a little tricky but it works. I do saw piercing in brass and copper? I Xerox the design glue it to the sheet stock, then start drilling a hole in each section that needs to be removed . It's virtually the same glueing technique .

[@smallblockchevy1022]

@@ROBRENZ I don't know if it's in a spot where you can do it or not, but have you ever tried letting water trickle on to your sanding plate while you're using it? I've done it by taking everything outdoors, and also by simply taking everything over the the sink. I really like it. It does a great job of keeping the sandpaper clean, because it's constantly flushing all the particles of sand and material away. I want to build a dedicated supply and drainage system just for a sanding plate.

[@ottomakers]

Ran with this idea and also made up some smaller lapping blocks with various grits, acute angles and crisp 90 degrees from some nicely ground and lapped pieces of hardened tooling prototypes and discards. Now I've got an evolving set of various sized slip 'stones' and plates. Could not be without this plate ever again. Not sure how I lived before. Wait, yes I do; in my own filth and misery.

[@37yearsofanythingisenough39]

Rob you need to contact 3M and tell them how to remove 77. About a year ago I was so fed up trying to remove the stuff from my 20” disc sander backing plate every time I wanted to replace the disc that I contacted them for help. To make a long story short, everything they suggested I tried and none of it worked. You just made my whole evening. Thank you.

[@PSUQDPICHQIEIWC]

Aromatic and aliphatic petro solvents tend to work just fine with 77 and other sprays (at least the old cans; idk if they've changed the formula in the last 20 years). Mineral spirits, naphtha, xylene, toluene (in approximate order of aggressiveness) should work, while IPA isn't going to do anything. Keep in mind that the solvent package in WD-40 is a mixture that's basically equivalent to kerosene (largely aliphatic). With some of the chloroprene cements, ketones (MEK, acetone) do work, but their evaporation rate is high enough that for removal tasks, they become difficult to use alone. Most contact cements (up until more recently) had a solvent package primarily of MEK and toluene. One might think that if the combination of a ketone and aromatic solvent work well, then a broad-spectrum solvent mixture like lacquer thinner should work perfectly. This used to be the case, but in my experience, most formulations of lacquer thinner are now adulterated with an excess of alcohol and other "zero-VOC" solvents that they cause the glue to coagulate and turn into a clumpy, smeary mess.   For me, I have spray bottles of the solvents I use. If I had such a cement on a metal (not plastic!) surface, I'd hit it with a spray of MEK and a spray of xylene. Scrub to dissolve, wipe off the bulk; respray, wipe.   When removing sheet material from a rigid substrate, you can lift the edge and use a brush with solvent to massage the adhesive as you peel. Keeping that leading edge wet helps a lot.   Of course, if you call a company and ask, they're probably bound by liability to not actually recommend something that works if it involves anything that can't be safely fed to a toddler. That's been my experience. I've called DAP about one of their adhesives that says right on the can (an actual new can) that proper use needs a specialty thinner that I couldn't find. I called them to find out that they don't even make it anymore and they would not recommend any substitute product or give me any information about what could be used. It's just MEK and toluene. That's all they had to say. It's not like they don't know. They just won't say it.

[@MaturePatriot]

@@PSUQDPICHQIEIWC I try to avoid Methyl Ethyl Death as much as possible.

[@37yearsofanythingisenough39]

Dream Services International thanks for the in-depth response. I tried many of the solvents you suggested with little success. I felt the guy I was corresponding with at 3M was actually trying to help primarily because this went on over a period of days, but it might have been as you suggested, He was not allowed to say due to liability reasons. This country never was so lawsuit crazy as it is now.

[@xenonram]

Oils/hydrocarbons work to remove most adhesives. It's no secret to use ed wd40. Olive, coconut, peanut, sunflower, canola/rapeseed oils even work. Same idea as using peanut butter to get gum out of hair. Almost all sticker residue can be removed with WD40.

[@extradimension7356]

Hexane...

[@johnspargo5876]

My goodness Robin. You actually own something thats Rusty! ( the bed of your pickup!) I've been thinking of running an on line competition , with prizes to the first dudes to spot any rust on your machines. First prize a weeks training with this old tony. 2nd prize - 2 weeks. thanks for the post and kind regards from John Spargo in Cape Town

[@Steve_Just_Steve]

I'm simply giddy about the mention of a in depth video on lapping. Can't thank you enough for all you share Robin.

[@ronwhittaker6317]

Robin trys his hardest to see that machining isn't a dying art

[@RossiDeakin0406]

These are the golden nuggets that need to be cherished, totally awesome Rob. toolroom legend, an you can't put a price on these tips, big props for sharing your tips pal 👍🇬🇧🙏

[@davidmurray700]

Thanks Robin! Like to hear your golden nuggets of wisdom.

[@jameshisself9324]

Magic is right! When I first discovered the beauty of silicon carbide and scotchbrite metal finishing and how common it is for commercial and consumer applications it felt like the greatest secret ever. Makes ho-hum and mediocre look fantastic. Which tbh is more important for me than a very good machinist. 😆😆😆

[@ronwhittaker6317]

when Robin talks i listen

[@bryans5150]

Thanks for another great one Robin. Once again, in a few minutes, I've gained a wealth of truly purposeful knowledge. Words can't say how much your time and effort are appreciated.

[@prentissvise]

Thanks to Covid I have been spending more time on KZbin and recently discovered your channel. After 32 years as a paid machinist I am learning an incredible amount from your videos, much of which I will put to good use since I am not yet 70 years old and machining is also my hobby. Thanks to you I will stop wearing the center out of my sanding plate.

[@stewartfrye]

I ordered the paper, and setting my plate,, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[@ROBRENZ]

You are so welcome!

[@sashcsgo]

i have to thank you a lot for this video as someone who is trying to build some tools with just a hacksaw, drill, files and sandpaper. greetings from germany

[@yawpaw9796]

Sanding Pro Tips should this video be called. I wondered why Mr. Rob wouldnt give the paper a couple licks with diamond wheel to avoid hispots on the abrasive deposition. Maybe check with a laser comparator and an atomic bubble level to see if the paper grain is aligned with the AAAA+a.1 surface plate. Not nuff words can b said about your attention to detail. Love your angle about life and glad to see you smile

[@timmallard5360]

Love the tool room tips keep them coming!

[@fabianthorne6831]

Every time I watch your videos Mr.Robin I always learn a lot of great machine shop knowledge,you are a master in this trade man ,keep up your good work ,coming from one of your students and subscribers from Trinidad in the Caribbean.

[@ROBRENZ]

You are very welcome

[@tmurray1972]

Very helpful tips, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule.👌👏👏👊🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@copasetic216]

This is awesome. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos. 👍

[@aearles7]

Fantastic that you are putting out more videos. Really appreciated. Thanks!!!

[@elyedwards5181]

Thank you robin for sharing your wisdom. Perfect timing to I ordered a 12x16 lapping plate yesterday

[@dominikj.5095]

OMG! You have 3 hands, like This Old Tony😵

[@craigtate5930]

Great information. Its amazing the unique bits that the top youtube machinists bring to light for the rest of us. Thanks

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Now I want one of those surface plates. Thanks for the informative video.

[@thomashornerjr.6616]

Thank you as always Robin!!!

[@lancebaltzley4770]

I have had this setup in my shop for a couple of years. Thank you for all the tips for cleaning, I'm sure I have wasted a bunch of sandpaper because I just could not find a good way of maintaining it. Excellent and again THANK YOU!

[@ROBRENZ]

Thanks for stopping by Lance! ATB, Robin

[@stumccabe]

Excellent tips. Magic video. Thanks.

[@1crazypj]

Your comments about abrasive paper are 100% accurate. I've seen many people using it but my Google 'skills' are not good enough for me to find the stuff. Thanks for the link

[@James-fs4rn]

👍 even your acid brushes are reengineered. Thanks for sharing more of your shop wisdom. We can't get enough!

[@LocoFabandMachineworks]

Really nice explanation. Now I have a use for my old worn out granite surface plate

[@I-Love-Taylor-Swift]

This is good stuff. I've seen sanding plates before but never thought about how good they are. Now I know!!

[@andyZ3500s]

Thanks Robin, as always I picked up alot of great information that will be useful to me. Andy

[@OldtimeIronman]

Thanks for the link to Abrasives South! They will be getting some business from me in the future. Also thank you very much for the closed captions. I rely on my sense of touch and vibration to tell how my projects are going. You'd be amazed how sensitive the fingertips are.

[@erickieffer8440]

Excellent instruction, thank you.

[@priority2]

Another incredibly useful video. I always learn something new. Thank you Robin 😊👍

[@arcrad]

Your videos are practically unrivaled in information density. Every other sentence is chock full of helpful tips and just awesome explanations of your thought processes. Thanks for sharing all this awesome information!

[@bobolander]

"looks like a nitwit did it" = actual guffaws of laughter. great video as always sir! also...very glad I picked up two old cast iron surface plates off eBay before the run on them begins...it's the Oxtools / Renzetti Effect. Highlighted in a video? 400% price jump!

[@braxtonec]

Thank you for sharing this. It may seem simple, but this clip is packed with helpful details that make precise repeatability accessible to all that are willing to apply the time to absorb it!

[@ROBRENZ]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@TheAyrCaveShop]

Great Tip and Info...Thanks Robin!!

[@DudleyToolwright]

Wonderful techniques. Thanks for helping me fill my mental toolbox.

[@wileecoyoti]

This is excellent and pretty much mirrors+extends my prep before anodizing. I have been using a belt sander before scotchbrite, but I'm going to have to switch to a plate to get better control. Thanks as always!

[@motorman46]

Very informative as always, I actually have a 12x18 cast iron surface plate which I can't wait to put to use. Thanks again for sharing the wealth of knowledge you possess.

[@Just1GuyMetalworks]

Wow, that does look good 😃! Guess I'll have to add an iron surface plate to the unending list of tools I need 🤣. Thanks for the share!

[@christurley391]

Ha you caught me, I was going to ask where the paper came from. Lol Thanks for the video.

[@RRINTHESHOP]

I like the tech. Thanks Robin.

[@ROBRENZ]

Thanks for stopping by Randy! ATB, Robin

[@bernhard5741]

Another excellent video! I am just learning the craft for my hobby shop and appreciate your detailed and thorough presentation. Thank you, Bernhard

[@jasonmichaels6660]

Keep the video’s coming 👍🏻👍🏻 so happy to see you back on KZbin! Yes I enjoy your quick videos on Instagram, but out of all the channels I follow for this work you by far are my favorite. I really enjoy the long detailed videos. I am always amazed at your knowledge and your willingness to share with us. I am a hobbyist, self taught... so your videos are such a joy to watch. I can easily watch an hour program of yours which I normally have a hard time doing. I’m sure it’s a lot of work to produce these videos so I just wanted to say thank you for all the hard work. Any update with the surface grinder?

[@ROBRENZ]

Thanks and the grinder is still on the list.

[@karlsorensen3214]

Thanks once more for a spectacular video!

[@ROBRENZ]

Thank you too!

[@glennfelpel9785]

Your are right Robin. It is magic. Thank you, these tips. And thank you for the source.

[@ROBRENZ]

Glad it was helpful!

[@cgprecision]

Sometimes the simplest tools make the biggest difference. Thanks for sharing.

[@emilbader1524]

Wonderful work. Thanks for all your wonderful information and process that you share. I am blessed. May that blessings return to you ten fold. 🤙

[@ROBRENZ]

You are so welcome

[@bhoiiii]

I just got my 220 silicon carbide in the mail. I could not believe that it removed milling cutter marks in 15 seconds. I had to come back and comment. I went with 3m 220. This is going to save me hours. Thank you sir!

[@ROBRENZ]

That is awesome!

[@Orgakoyd]

What size role of paper did you use? I'd like to have a 12x18 plate with long paper roll that I can cut to length myself. I've found a source for the paper in the UK. Quite expensive to get it shipped from Abrasives South.

[@rgmoore]

Very nice demonstration and wonderful finishes. I want to run out to the shop and start polishing stuff. I guess I need to buy a cast iron surface plate first. Thanks so much for sharing and demonstrating your techniques.

[@lopezepol75]

Using the foam as a improvised "file card" is a great idea. I have always used no grit scotchbrite to remove loaded up aluminum from sandpaper but I might have to switch to the foam. Thanks Robin!

[@yawpaw9796]

We. The cave man

[@bob_mllr]

Great video and tips Robin! Thanks!

[@ROBRENZ]

Glad it was helpful!

[@robertwatsonbath]

Thanks Robin, enjoyed, some useful tips. A really good point about allowing applied solvents to get to work, without just mopping them straight back up.

[@allenhess6583]

I never would have believed this would work so well. Thank You for a very informative video. Very nice, this is the kind of magic I like. Great tips for a beautiful finish.

[@ROBRENZ]

Glad it was helpful!

[@wlogue]

Thank you Robin!

[@chrisj4570g]

Milling a chunk of cast iron as soon as this video is done that Ive been meaning to turn into a plate for some time. Thanks for the kick in the pants!

[@oleringstad6615]

Thank you again Sir, for a very nice video! You are one of the most clever machinists I have ever seen! Very good. Sincerely, the Norwegian.

[@TomMakeHere]

Great video Robin. That 18 minutes went by surprisingly quick I need to add this to the shop now

[@pierresgarage2687]

Hi Robin, A few good pieces of learning added to my bank of knowledge... Thanks again for taking some time to prepare this for us!!! ATB, Pierre

[@ROBRENZ]

Glad it was helpful!

[@GoCreateHobbyMachineShop]

Wow that's good info. I have a spare 12 X 12 surface plate, it will be a magic plate later today.

[@ryangobie]

Thanks, Robin. I've employed a granite plate for this duty at work a few years back. Dealing with sometimes hundred year old motorcycle parts it quickly lets me know the condition of a mating or gasketed surface. The link for the oversized paper allows me to grab a new larger plate, as you mentioned I've tried looking in the past. Great video.

[@mr.t.807]

Robben You knocked it out of the park again. 2 years ago I picked a 18 xbox 24 cast iron plat up for 25$. I was wanting to use it like you just showed, but hadn't check in to it yet

[@nickolaguez]

I love the voice over while your son works haha.

[@outputcoupler7819]

Great tip on the 3M 77. I've been trying to clean it with paper towels and isopropyl. It's a nightmare, takes ages and tons of isopropyl.

[@amundsen575]

Great detail better than using dry, I use granite sink drops that you can get for free from a granite counter maker

[@forrestaddy9644]

We are twins, separated at birth. Yup. A most underrated tool. I sold my old 9" x 12" surface plate a couple years ago but I've needed it several times since then. I used lighter fluid (my go to quick solvent) instead of WD40 but otherwise we plow parallel furrows. I called it my "if you can't make it right, make it shiny" plate. It did good service when I made camera fittings and fishing reel parts. Nice crisp edges, smooth parallel lay on the finish, etc under the anodize and the customer instantly got out his checkbook. Gorgeous esthetics. Probably wouldn't have noticed if it was left handed or inside out. I sometimes used it to dress a freshly scraped surface, take out the slight undulations on the rare occasions when they'd be objectionable.

[@ROBRENZ]

Glad to hear it Forrest, I consider that quite a compliment! ATB, Robin

[@davidcolwill860]

Thanks Robin. Another thing on my list :)

[@Threadexpress]

Good stuff again Robin. Cheers Cliff

[@ROBRENZ]

Thanks for watching Cliff

[@BrendaEM]

Good video. It's interesting that although I use a vaguely similar technique, that you showed me a new method for steel. When sanding aluminum and plastic parts, I often use a sheet of glass or surface plate, wet with water. The water holds down the sandpaper, except the edges should be untrusted using this technique. Often as I wet the sheet, I add one drop of detergent to the water. Also, you can use a cheap plastic T-square to make those lines nice and straight : ) Tempered glass can often be found at the side of the road from discarded flatbed scanners. Although I am daring enough to use my surface plate for wet sanding, I am careful to clean the grit from it, as gently and thoroughly as possible. If I were rich, I would send a cheap b-grade Enco surface plate off to have it diamond coated.

[@matthewwest8689]

Thanks Robin!

[@angelramos-2005]

Very interesting.Thank you

[@swanvalleymachineshop]

Great tip . Cheers .

[@rupertpowell]

I am still investigating how to best polish the slit blades for a spectrascope. I have been experimenting with a similar technique to this but using 3M lapping paper. I can't wait to see your followup on lapping as i am positive I will learn some top-tips from you that will help improve the quality of my blades. Keep up the BRILLIANT content Rob.

[@ROBRENZ]

Thanks for stopping by Rupert! ATB, Robin

[@Ddabig40mac]

Excellent tips!

[@ROBRENZ]

Glad it was helpful!

[@CraigLYoung]

Thanks for sharing!

[@EdgePrecision]

Another good one Robin! Thanks.

[@ROBRENZ]

Thank you Peter! ATB, Robin

[@Bob_Adkins]

Rob, I use a 16x28" piece of fake granite countertop. I lapped it flat to 002, and coated it with a slurry of epoxy and 1200 grit aluminum oxide rock tumbling media. I lapped it flat again with a long heavy aluminum bar and 180 grit wet/dry paper. I use it like a giant precision stone and for all those things you shouldn't use a surface plate for. For heavier lapping, I just tape a standard piece of wet/dry on it. Wish it was cast iron, but I couldn't find one in the dumpster.😁

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Great tips, Robin. Steve

[@ROBRENZ]

Thanks Steve, and thanks for watching. ATB, Robin

[@radardoug]

I have a chunk of granite left from my kitchen countertops when they cut the hole for the cooktop and I've been using it like this for quite a while with great results. It was my poor-man's surface plate until I got a real one.

[@fredgenius]

Greight video, thanks for sharing! :)

[@joell439]

👍😎👍. Thank you for sharing.

[@charlieromeo7663]

I had to rewind and replay just after “nit wit”. Great tips, as per the usual.

[@stevendoesburg6555]

Great video, thanks!

[@SteveSummers]

Thanks Robin! Enjoyed

[@ROBRENZ]

Thanks for watching Steve! ATB, Robin

[@mpenn]

I’ve used this technique a lot on flattening large gate valves and flapper valves in ship repair, all the lathes cut a slight concave at that shop. In a pinch you can spray wd40 underneath and the paper would stick! (Even with a 8”gate being ‘lapped’) We also switched too soapy-water as lubricant, worked very well!

[@1jtolvey]

GREAT VIDEO !!! ROCK-ON -- ROBIN !

[@Threadexpress]

Thanks Robin. Cheers Cliff

[@ROBRENZ]

Thanks for watching Cliff! ATB, Robin

[@bradthayer6782]

The WD40 insight is gold, thanks.

[@user-tw9io9nz2m]

Nice! I'be veen looking at that plate since you showed it in the aluminun vise jaws video

We've been using using a similar setup for flattening carb bases, intake flanges, etc. for years, a slight warp can cause a vacuum leak that's almost impossible to find. Great stuff on your channel, that accent sounds like you're from PA. lol!

[@ROBRENZ]

Correct, what accent? :-)

[@googacct]

When I remove the protective plastic from aluminum sheet, I use a piece of pvc pipe or wooden dowel to roll off the plastic. Doing something similar might make it easier to remove the sandpaper from the plate.

[@ROBRENZ]

Great tip!

[@yawpaw9796]

Good idea! Thanks!

[@ianbertenshaw4350]

Excellent video Robin! I never thought of using paper towel and packing foam to clean the abrasive though ! You could use a fence on your surface plate to make getting the finish parallel to one face .

[@ROBRENZ]

Great idea

[@jimsvideos7201]

This was worth the watch for the styrofoam trick alone!

[@Deezle_Gaming]

Naphtha is my favorite adhesive remover. I'll have to give WD-40 a shot.

[@LambertZero]

naphtha, kerosene, wd40, "mineral spirits" and diesel fuel all work about the same for this and many other purposes. As they are chemically very close to each other.

[@PSUQDPICHQIEIWC]

If WD-40 takes it off, naphtha will. It's basically kerosene and light oil. Most VM&P naphtha is going to be a bit more aggressive and faster evaporating, but their solvent spectrums are pretty much the same.

[@ColtaineCrows]

I'm going to be on the lookout for a surface plate for sure. Paper might be more difficult since I likely won't be able to order from Abrasives South Inc. But then again I'll probably only be using it for checking that surface covers etc are reasonably flat on old engines and such.

[@lunchboxproductions1183]

A wash bottle with the tip cut back enough to receive the inlet end of spray tips works great to clean them. Push a little solvent through to flush them, scrub the face of the tip and then a final flush to make sure they're squeaky clean.

[@vikingsofvintageaudio7470]

Fantastic

[@erikisberg3886]

Thanks for many useful tips! I find I get the best results using a "non oily" naphtha on stones and lapping papers, but keeping the surface wet. By feel there seems to be a "right" amount of fluid that works best. Also pure mineral naphtha will not gum up over time as will the vegetable oils etc. Interesting thoughts on convex plates. My cheap China granite measures slightly convex and gives me good flats using lapping paper and Al foil methods, never considered why it seemed to work so well... A thick glass slab in the sink used with water and a little detergent is another trick I used for decades. Wet paper adheres to the glas good enough to make it work well. I use cheap wet papers and throw them away after each use, they do not work well after drying.

[@johncoops6897]

"Naptha" means absolutely nothing - it's a non-specific generalised term that covers numerous solvents and mixes of solvents. Could you actually be specific?

[@erikisberg3886]

@@johncoops6897 I guess it is different in different parts of the world. Around here the cheap product is pretty consistent, usually "oil free" mineral aliphatic hydrocarbons BP about +150C. Main use is paint thinners and degreasing, characteristic is that it does not resinify much, as all veggie oils do. For lab use there are lower boiling fractions (naptha or "petrolium ether") available like +90C to 120C which I think is often better if You can obtain them. Never had any problems with the naphta from paint stores. WD40 etc usually contains veggie oils and will over time clog stones.

[@johncoops6897]

@@erikisberg3886 - the tern 'Naptha" is non-specific and basically means nothing. The more you write, the more that you prove it. Insome countries it means deisel fuel for trucks, etc. Some people call Zippo fuel "naptha", yet it's not the same stuff used in Coleman stoves which other people think is Naptha. Sometimes it's not even made from petroleum distillate! Even referring to ranges of boiling points doesn't really help, since that covers such a wide range of Distillates. If you wish to refer to a particular solvent, then you need to use it's proper name.