The Marvel Secret Lair Was A Disaster - Magic Players Should Know Why | MTG Discussion

[@foxokon94]

According to my lgs commander players spend way more than modern players. Commander players build new decks, look trough binders for upgrades, and cracks packs for fun. Modern players show up, pay entrance fee play the tournament and then leave.

[@dongdoodler]

Yep, they need multiples of staples and the average lgs wont have the supply so they have to order, and then get used to ordering

[@dimitriid]

WotC is just Ticketmaster now: the only way to revert this is to crash resell value for the Marvel secret lairs but there's both enough magic addicts and enough marvel fans that it has no chance of happening: Scalping is the new normal and WotC will move more and more desirable cards (Both new designs and reprints) to secret lairs. Oh and this is probably the last good drop at just 50 bucks it's going to be 60-70 at least next time around if not more.

[@cherry9787]

So glad I stopped playing

[@nickpolatas8433]

What’s mildly interesting is that when I got the Extralife secret lair that was print to order, I got that in two weeks. Like it was shockingly fast how quickly it came without having to wait in any queue or anything. I just saw it on as there, ordered it, and it showed up quickly with zero hassle.

[@supranova7594]

So with extra life lairs they print a bunch up front and then the rest is print to order

[@fitnesshunter6302]

I haven't gotten my extra life secret lair just fyi

[@supranova7594]

@@fitnesshunter6302 google something along the lines of "where's my secret lair" and it should pull up part of their site with estimated production statuses and ship dates

[@domicci4460]

Same I was expecting to get it next year

[@MrXrockax]

The diff is extralife was some preprintet but still print on demand, so there is/was almost no fomo and no scalpers. Marvel was only limited + SL only cards + Marvel + scaplers. U cant compare this 2, it was not a different league it was a different game 😅

[@Moosetattchio]

22:00 I work at an LGS. The majority of people that spend money there are commander players. They buy decks, sleeves, packs, snacks, preorders, singles, sealed product and everything in-between. Please be careful with this rhetoric that commander players are damaging LGSs by not spending money. Those scenarios are possible but I can tell you from firsthand experience that this is not true in all cases. Commander players help our store thrive and I'm sure they do for others as well. There's no need to throw shade over fringe cases or demonize commander players because you "think" or "heard" that they don't support their LGSs by spending money. That's harmful imo.

[@AgentFulgoreBasedDepartment]

yeah this part confused me tbh, at my LGS commander players literally spend the MOST money lol. people are playing for hours so they'll get snacks, drinks, buy packs to crack in between games, etc.

[@Moosetattchio]

@AgentFulgoreBasedDepartment Our most profitable days of the week are weekends and commander nights where engaged commander players are in the store spending money. We don't charge for our weekly commander events and we don't have to. We have to restock sealed product weekly because they buy everything. I don't want to speak in certainty that the scenarios he's describing never happen but our situation is the norm in most LGSs I frequent. It's a weird rhetoric that the most enfranchised players don't support the stores they play at.

[@honeybeeees6666]

Content creators are blind to these truths. They are stuck in the days where standard dominated and sets of 4 drove constant buys. Every LGS ive been to now caters mostly to Commander, and Commander players do indeed spend the most money. Standard Meta decks only drive specific sales. EDHs evergreen card pool might be "stagnant" on certain fronts, but the absolute variety drives more sales than most content creators are willing to admit. Standard players tend to have a few decks, that get incrementally updated with new sets. Commander players, meanwhile, are over here brewing 700 cards worth of decks and more and more legendaries/archetypes come out all the time.

[@magnuslayton8827]

Yeah I purchase precons from my LGS, purchase sleeves from my LGS, and play commander at my LGS. I have waited to purchase cards or not purchased individual cards because my LGS didn't have them.

[@jakal6547]

I spend so much and commander is all I play I used to play standard but I don't have any interest anymore. Bought so pre release for foundations. All of my friends are commander and we all support our LGS that 9 loyal customers. Decent amount of money spent.

[@hardhittamtg]

Brandon Sanderson actually wrote a Magic Novel. It's called "Children of the Nameless" and it was about Davriel. I think something happened and WotC took it down. It was available for free when it first came out. You can still find it if you look. And yeah most people didn't give a damn. Lol It was pretty good though.

[@GH-un9uz]

Even worse, he did it for free with the understanding that the book would be available for free. They ultimately had contractual rights to choose and Brandon said he was disappointed but it was their choice to make. Extra suck because the book was so damn good

[@nigboz3288]

This is what and how exclusivity looks like. How we going to make a collectors market matter if it’s just constant reprints. Especially on something everyone knew was going to be good. Cause go ahead buy the other secret pair stuff.

[@anthonyellison5998]

I unfortunately got the date wrong and thought it was today and not yesterday so when I went online to see if there was a timer, it was four hours late and sold out already

[@jarredpickell2118]

@@anthonyellison5998 that suck, would've been cool if you got your hands on em.

[@brandonmiranda174]

I cannot express my disappointment in this Secret Lair I have been playing since revised and I feel like I have paid WOTC 250,000$ in my lifetime showing my devotion to the game and I am not a rich man I am a poor repair man but I love this game and was really looking forward to this secret lair and I felt extremely let down by WOTC the magic community has been bamboozled over and over in the past few years pray that you make it right to your community of players... remember no players no money's you don't want to end up like Duel masters do we???

[@nerothejokeemperor9563]

I just wish the cards weren't originals, i wanted to play ironman, wolverine, or storm but i cant afford the $50 tag for each. I hope they release them as special guests in the Spider-Man crossover so i have a chance to get it . Same with the one ring in any other places

[@TheUltimateRey]

Just buy some proxies for cheap my guy or figure out how to do it yourself

[@Azeria]

The thing is even if they don’t go back to print-to-demand, it would’ve absolutely been possible for them to have had 2x or 3x the stock. They could’ve limited each to one or two per customer or address. They could’ve actually printed enough of those Arcane Signets that they didn’t sell out before the bundles you got them with. This model is awful, absolutely, but their execution is somehow even worse. Plus the reneging on the ‘Universes Within’ promise is gross too, what was the point of doing that for what, two, three drops, if they had no intention of sticking with it? I’m sure many players love Storm or Splicer, but many would like to play with a card that isn’t tied to a comic book or 80s cartoon that they have no attachment too, and without proxying and paying an artist on your own, or worse, using some AI slop, you can’t.

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

WotC: Arcane Signet was a design mistake. Also WotC: Here's a $250 version of it!

[@DSR505]

its like a 40$ card on the secondary market

[@ryanhefner2011]

​@@DSR505preorders are going for like 225 at the lowest.

[@DSR505]

@@ryanhefner2011 where are you getting that number because there is a ton on ebay for 40$ right now that arent selling

[@swagasaurus8568]

WoTC: arcane signet was a design mistake. Mtg players: agreed, i still need a dozen for every one of my decks.

[@Toleezu6]

This is really going to come down to when mechanically unique secret lairs are printed in their non-UB variety. The divisive Walking Dead and now Marvel shows that releasing ahead of pack release and adding FOMO and scarcity weaponises the spending and is anti-consumer. Gorilla shows us that print to demand is fine for the consumer, but does t push the needle on spending the same way. The honest expectation is that printing in set or to demand will be prioritised if the company doesn't need to move the needle and fomo will be prioritised if revenue needs to be juiced (the most likely scenario is that fomo will maintained with smaller/ reprint only releases if the needle doesn't need to be pushed.

[@nicholsstinson8646]

Rick from the walking dead was already a card?

[@kynnethpaullin9218]

The Cedric Phillips response has a lot of the same feeling as those partying in Masque of the Red Death

[@ruelzsantanaAoE]

There is one solution to this problem. Print these cards as "The List" cards when the UB Spiderman drops.

[@SardonicVida]

Unfortunately wizards said they wouldn’t do the list anymore

[@ruelzsantanaAoE]

@SardonicVida my sales pitch to them would be, this guarantees that the new players and old players will buy product, which is what the company wants. They would revisit "The List" cards if they were Secret Lair cards in Foundation or normal sets. Treat them like Mystical Archive or Masterpieces. Such a thing will sell packs for sure.

[@Emmetlovesredvelvet13]

Listen, I love universe beyond. i have said this in many magic content creators comments. I really wish they just kept it as a commander only product. It is not fair for them to just inject these cards into other formats and completely screw people. I found normal magic lately to be boring and uninteresting due to Being forced to play the same cards and playstyles to be relevant.I found it as a breath of fresh air; however, forcing these people who don't enjoy it to see these cards in their formats and giving them no control whether or not these are allowed is not okay. Because these cars are power scaled.4 commander, just seeing them completely take and shift stable metas in different formats is just gonna make people be more adverse to those who like to play those cards. My current deck that I've been running Non-stop is a 14th Doctor and clara deck but I tell you what with the era were heading to no matter what i'm not going to be able to play the deck that I enjoy because it's a universe's beyond deck. We have nobody to blame but wotc and hasbro too.

[@Erik_Sjostrom]

I really needed a Black Panther for my legacy Maverick deck. Why?😭

[@ecthelionv2]

Because money.

[@eruantien9932]

My opinion on the whole debacle of the last few months in particular: There's too much being put out, people can't keep up, so they glaze over for most releases. This harms Standard, it harms Modern. EDH not so much, because, despite WotC's best attempts, EDH is still a world in which weird, unheard of cards from yesteryear can shine, but other formats definitely suffer for people not knowing the cards being flung out by WotC. I'm also going to blame the overpacked release schedule for Nadu and the lack of time they had to test the final version. (Echoes of Skullclamp, no?) By that same token, there's too much UniB being made. WotC has limits when it comes to time and money to make stuff, and there's so much UniB that it's affecting the non-UniB stuff - this is a problem because MtG is MtG; if I made a card game, but it all the names and art was other people's IP, do I have a game or an advertising vessel? Would anyone even notice if MtG sets slowly halted over the next 5 or so years in favour of everything being UniB? Is MtG still MtG, or just other people's stories? Limited print runs are great for Hasbro, awful for players and collectors. Fixed print runs both make things predictable for Hasbro, and are also great for luring in other companies for collaborations because "look how popular this is, it sold out is 30 seconds!". For the rest of us it sucks, because we can't get the thing. But this won't change any time soon because, as you so rightly said, they keep printing things that people actually want. So they will sell, so they will keep doing it. By that same notion, mechanically unique cards in secret lairs is great for Hasbro in the sort term, but utter poison for the game long term. Just look at Mana Crypt - a book promo from way back, not reprinted for a decade and a half, and then printed just in time to be banned because it was such a moneybags piece of power that it made the gameplay experience worse for everyone else. The mere threat that these new cards might never see a reprint weaponises FOMO to drive people to financial irresponsibility, because here is a piece of power that you might never be able to get again, or at least, not at the "low" price of $200 from your local scalper. At least the RC isn't around to ban Storm, I guess... And on the topic of things people want... I guess I got off lucky. Hasbro, in their infinite wisdom, contracted artists unfamiliar with the style to make the Miku Secret Lairs, and holy hell was some of it bad.

[@krackrgf3214]

It was a mess but I appreciate you not just spewing negativity like some other channels. Subscribed. I had a similar experience with any highly anticipated/hyped secret lair. I logged in one hour early, hit cart the second it went live, waited in the queue through the "paused line" and all the issues for roughly two hours patiently, and purchased my 5 foil bundles with 6 promo cards. I'm not a scalper or a bot but like MANY other people, if I can sell the extra to pay for the one I am collecting I certainly will.

[@SellimPax]

The discussion about "Magic's Identity" is so wild to me, oh Spongebob blocking the Eleventh Doctor is weird but a squirrel holding Embercleave and blocking Emrakul isn't?! Ok people...

[@ecthelionv2]

In our place few LGS’ will stock singles. And if they do, it’s usually a player’s binder they allowed to by out there that they take a small cut out of sales of. If an LGS here sells sealed. Sometimes it’s also scalped and rarely around MSRP. The popular items (usually commander precon decks) get scalped to hell or run out fast if they are as close to MSRP. If we want singles it’s usually just the players and well. Secret Lairs? Good luck trying to get them here if they’re the popular ones that run out in a blink.

[@jorgeviayracortes2481]

Filling my cart for just a non foil wolverine pack, wait 5 hours just to enter an empty cart and add the pack and tell me that it's sold out. What a waste of time. We need print on demand. I'm thinking to print the packs my own

[@tuongpham7609]

Dam, that’s unfortunate. I managed to get in after 2 hours of waiting.

[@simonp4832]

Yall Stockholmed as hell still supporting this game/company

[@Darkvalentine333]

Print to demand was the only reasonable, fair way to do this.

[@kingofnothing447]

truthfully, since i was a kid wanted to see the marvel ip crossover into whatever card game i was playing at the time (yugioh then, mtg now). at least i can try to make a marvel vs Capcom deck now for what its worth

[@CrazedSeer]

Sanderson DID write a chapter book for magic. It is where Davriel as a character came from. But I would 100% buy a cosmere secret lair or UB set

[@dhLotan]

Commander players are a new breed of MTG player. All they talk about are pods, deck power and how much they spent upgrading a deck they never created in the first place.

[@byronsmothers8064]

Pardon, one of my favorite decks is a build of my own, cards came out of 2 precons, but not enough of the deck is made of those to be called such. I get your point regardless, but exceptions exist.

[@dhLotan]

@byronsmothers8064 I'm kinda joking as I've only gotten into magic again in the last four months but edh was a thing before I quit and it's a pattern I've noticed as I've been going to Friday night commander events lol

[@eshannumin]

This is a wild overgeneralization. Ya'll out here playing with strangers. My "pod" is my group of friends. We have played for over 10 years and any time one of us has the best brew he is the archnemesis. From Teferi to Darreti. Stop playing with randos and make friends ffs. We have that rule 0 "it's go time" or "I have a fun deck" convo with 0 words. Stop playing a game for enjoyment with randos. You will be disappointed.

[@novawolfe7348]

@@eshannumin yo what this dude said. Like people straight up forget how to have fun in this game. 🤣

[@JushakF]

Universes Beyond is really dwindling my interest in MTG. I'm just happy I only play Commander - UB crap being standard legal next year would've killed my interest in the format competely. I've bought something from most non-UB sets in the last few years, but next year I don't see myself caring about more than 2-3 sets out of the entire year's announced releases. Secret Lairs have been easy to just ignore 100%.

[@cedarbobedar7223]

The "Line is Paused" thing is just text popping up on the line page they've been using for a while, and it looks like they can put up messages there pretty easily. Yeah it was probably a preplanned stunt to make the shareholders hard, but it's not the first time we've seen that page.

[@jeremycocciolone9223]

At 5:00 currently, I feel a good way to handle this could be a middle ground? Print a bunch, have the queue, and as soon as the product runs out, it becomes print to order, much like the video says. That way, you get both ways? Or if you must, limited release, and maybe a week or two later they do another run of print to demand?

[@cedrikDGAF]

Shoutout to "Play To Win" for cedh content. Probably some of the best cedh content out there.

[@camilovargas1722]

I am one of those players who’s first secret lair purchase was going to be this one. After the fiasco, not only I shall never attempt to get another one of these premium items, I felt gladly pushed to proxy a great deal of cards for my future commander decks.

[@tuongpham7609]

The moment the count down went to 0, I tried to order and was put in a queue for 2 hours. The line got paused about half way through but I did manage to get my hands on some iron man and storm. These will make fantastic gifts and a great way to get some friends into commander.

[@TheReforgedgaming]

I managed to get mine set for commander luckily and got the signet. I was wondering why my time kept going up then down then up. Thankfully I got in after over an hour and a half wait. I think they should honestly do the exact method they are doing with the Extra Life secret lair and do the pre-print for the first bit then print to demand the rest. They would make so much more because everyone could get their hands on it if they want it!

[@e6staffsargeify]

Lol, "commander players don't support LGS's" is the dumbest thing I've heard all week. Modern players will buy 4 of the same card an that adds up, but the decks in the meta don't change that much an require less changes less frequently. From all the commander players I know and myself included have spent thousands on 1 or 2 decks. Then make another one. While also getting a collector and set/play box of every set.

[@derekreynolds6962]

Guess this explains why, despite the fact I had confirmed my order within 5 seconds of the product going on sale, I waited 3 hours to make my purchase and missed out on the 4 Arcane Signets for which I was eligible.

[@Blackfox13x]

Our store does commander by everyone paying in 5 bucks for the space. The store does random pods so you get to see new decks and then does random prize draws

[@KeithCameRunning]

I got on at 9:00am PST, but 9:00:10am I was into shopping cart queue, one of the first people for sure, still took 3 hours in queue, still had stuff sell out (thankfully not ones i was trying to get)

[@MEGATR000N]

PROXY! JOIN US JOIN US JOIN US

[@kevinflack7036]

I also think its funny that you mentioned the article about faster shipping and I ordered a murderous magazines secret lair and was told it shipped out october 4th and to this date i havent seen any progress at all. These secretlabs people have no clue what they ate doing.

[@billlong4586]

On the pleasant kenobi part, yes he complains, butits not a constant like some..desolator magic for example

[@richardwright359]

My name's Richard wright and Richard wright is one of my favorite artists like John Avon great art hands down 💪😎👍

[@jolteon345]

To me, the best way to handle secret lairs is to go back to the 1-month window, have a select amount already printed, and then let people continue to order them for a print to demand run. I wouldn't care if either the early window or the late window had to pay $5-$10 more, just let people get the product if they want it. The biggest joke is that when I sent in a support ticket saying that a massively limited stock is stressful and unfriendly to consumers, they "received the feedback" and responded not by increasing the amount of product or changing the system in a meaningful way but instead....BY MAKING THEM AVAILABLE PAST THE END DATE IF THEY ARE IN STOCK? That doesn't address the issue that lairs sell out too fast.

[@ETK_]

Bro it’s crazy that people were complaining about how long it took for secret lairs to ship, and now, people are complaining about the print line amount. Simply put, magic players complain, they change, and find something new to complain about it.

[@kaasham8871]

Its the store owners fault to not charge them to play in there store…

[@dhLotan]

They can probably estimate how much they need, print 75% of that, and then open the store and just allow unlimited orders and print what's missing and those would be back ordered/ship as available.

[@nicholsstinson8646]

I just support proxy and so much more because there’s nine bazillion versions of every single card, especially when cards like this get to the secondary market. It goes from $40 all the way up to 140 it’s like yeah I know I’m not paying somebody who scalped, I’m gonna go spend the $.50 and the proxy or go on Etsy and get somebody to hand make me a cool proxy

[@StoneAgeDudemanGaming]

My husband wanted a wolverine lair, because that's his favorite hero. I had to work. So I missed the 30 second window

[@ryanhefner2011]

Proxy Proxy Proxy. Make Wizards insolvent. Force Hasbros hand. Either sell Wizards to someone who cares, or maybe Wizards buys themselves back into being private.

[@lithiumwhiskey1891]

I only buy off the secondary market, fuck Hasbro. I can’t wait to show up with all these “Play Pieces,” that are from other IP’s that get power crept and I have to use to be competitive, where I have made my own alter where I took a sharpie to the entire art of the card. Like you said it’s a play piece and I’m not a fan of the external IP’s so much so that I’m willing to deface my cards, even the expensive ones.

[@StoneAgeDudemanGaming]

Universes beyond is the bomb, how they're selling it to us sucks.

[@eshannumin]

Stop supporting MTG. Just stop. Hasbro will sell off the rights to someone that cares about it, and we can get back to having a game made by passionate people without greed overshadowing them. Proxy your cards, play with friends, encourage people to play with proxies as much as they like. No reason to buy products from this company.

[@sidt6377]

Play Flesh and Blood

[@washingtonfootballfan7974]

This is an L take. What makes you think that wotc doesn’t care. The universe beyond to standard is them caring. Standard will die without new players. If Standard becomes the main format they will no longer need to artificially rotate modern. This is the solution to every problem players have had and now all they do is complain because new players like different cards.

[@L1GHTGAMING]

Hasbro has owned WOTC longer than you've played mtg, sounds like cope

[@L1GHTGAMING]

​@@washingtonfootballfan7974agreed. These mtg players tend to be leftist mentality types, that'll cry complain and moan about everything. Still line up for the sales, and somehow complain that hasbro a company that has owned WOTC since like 1999 is ruining the game" Hasbro IS Mtg at this point

[@SgtBlackDraco]

I just buy singles for two decks I have. I never buy any boxes or packs and i have never bought one secret lair and trust me i never will lol

[@kevinflack7036]

Everything is just crazy now. Perhaps they should rename the game to Magic: The Gauging

[@zentec010]

This would not have been a bigger issue if they just said when the all the Marvel sets were coming out. The art may not be the same, but these cards will be reprinted in main sets. We know a Spider Man is coming out next. They should of clarified if we were getting an Avengers or X-men set and tell people to just wait.

[@lunatic-db6mp]

question, in Brazil a lot of the cards and products we buy are from stores, do people not buy single cards on stores in North America? because almost no LGS we need to pay to play no matter what format because we buy most of our cards and products from LGSes so they dont have a problem with having the spaces being used for free, asking just to know the diferences between countries

[@jeremycocciolone9223]

The stores I went to sell singles, tbe issue is we also have online stores, and when the stores you physically go to do not have what you are looking for, and other players either do not also have the card, or do not want to trade said card, you have to go to online to buy it from something like TCG Player or Card Kingdom (for example, as I also play Yugioh, I have been unable to find D - Force, a card I need for a deck of mine, at my lgs)

[@lunatic-db6mp]

@jeremycocciolone9223 i think i see the main diference, here in brazil we a site that all LGSes use that we can buy online but it comes directly from stores so we just compare prices on the site and see who is selling for cheaper and who is closer to us so we can either ship from the store or go there, that makes it so that its just so much more convinient to buy from stores that while we do buy a lot of cards from other players we mainly get them from LGS

[@jeremycocciolone9223]

@@lunatic-db6mp Yeah, I think some online shops are similar, notably amazon but you would buy sealed products, not singles from amazon. I think tcg player also allows lgs's to sell there as well, but I have no used the site myself to verify if that is true. Lgs are usually not connected to each other, unless one owner own multiple stores, in that case, they could have a website themselves where you can buy product from either location and have it sent, perhaps?

[@MichaelHayes-yw6mf]

Idk I got on there the second of dropping because I had an alarm set. The website crashed but I still got the arcane signet plus everything else I wanted… A lot of the stuff people are saying is just hysteria and rumors. Granted the wait was ridiculous

[@whylark]

Brandon Sanderson name drop 🎉🎉

[@ThatMillGuyShaf]

Gotta show love to the GOAT

[@whylark]

@ThatMillGuyShaf can't wait to pick up my copy of the mistborn deck building game

[@RalphThePyro]

22:33 Uses table for free. That's an LGS problem. My commander events are always entry fee.

[@tjiani111]

Wouldn't Hasbro make more money if they made more of em available? Everybody why couldn't get one now, would have bought one. Seems counterproductive.

[@Hapkins-le6xf]

Marvel secret lair worked exactly how wotc intended, with the exception of website issues, which they don't want but don't care enough to fix.

[@gannonkendrick9343]

Brandon Sanderson already collaborated with Magic the Gathering.

[@BurgurBun]

Star Wars is impossible I think the creators of SW Unlimited put something in the contract to not allow another company to infringe on SW in the card world.

[@stunnfisk1276]

I can’t see a secret lair I want, sit on it put away an extra 40/80 bucks and I could buy it all season that’s so so not the case at all. It’s a dedicated day and a gamble to get a chance to buy now and this is only a few weeks after the cards were first spoiled

[@Toxickbd]

Wizards dosent need money

[@Keck282]

Just throw the whole Secret Lair system in the bin. The only one i got was the Sheldon Secret Lair, because it was print-to-demand.

[@Breezax]

Have a question, because I really don't know. But for us, people that live in Europe. Are we in the disadvantage to buy Secret Lair sets? 😅🙉🙈🙊🤣

[@TheSushiandme]

Jaja welcome to wotc

[@RedOne949]

profs comment just made my day😂

[@tcgdarren5865]

We need to support wizards of the coast?

[@SaintRazo]

Honestly I just proxy every deck. Why spent money on cards and support a horrible company.

[@fruc24]

Don't even entertain the Cedrics of the MTG world. I wouldn't see the real problems too if WOTC was paying my bills lol.

[@ZzrzZ2012]

Listen guys the day that adventure time and mtg cross over I'm buying me a pig card and I'm Flooping it

[@L8RSTORM]

I am making my voice herd i hate universe beyond

[@JoshBagwell]

Universe Beyond != Secret Lair Drop

[@Darkvalentine333]

I love Universes beyond, but the secret lair system is fucked

[@richardmolano5538]

Too much complaining?! If you waited for 5 hours to an empty cart then yeah people have GREAT REASONS TO COMPLAIN!

[@JoshBagwell]

wait.. printers have a subscription now??

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

UInban Contract From Below!

[@Soriano98]

Honestly mtg has been in a terrible play state for years and it feels like it’s just being held together by whatever IP they can grab and the more profit motivated products they pump out the worse the game gets

[@Yoshi6851]

Well guess it’s proxy time!

[@joshuajones2680]

stop buying secret lairs until they go back to the old model.

[@JD-ql8hx]

Refund all the people who cheated 😊

[@BurgurBun]

YOU WANT ME TO SUPPORT F2F AND 401!!!???

[@joshuacapps6717]

I would not care lol

[@saschas614]

Everyone who got some Drops and selling them for profit likes the current System. I Guess IP holders like the news "Sold Out in Minutes". Last but not least, there is no such thing as bad press. Each of these "Wotc S*cks" Videos will bring more people into buying and selling Drops for Profit

[@Tornven2003]

Main issue no. 1 WOTC making the prints less available. Main issue no. 2 scalpers. The combination is killing secret lair experiences for everyone else.

[@swagasaurus8568]

Even of wotc increased the number of prints that would only mean more scalpers buying all the product, but no, 90% of the commentd say wotc bad. You could buy several copies of every one of de drops and people still wonder why it sold out so quickly. Just don't buy it now on secondary markets, let the scalpers choke on the excess they buy.

[@Tornven2003]

@ yea I agree that scalpers are definitely a huge problem. People seem to leap to defend them which is wild.

[@MrDualityGaming]

Boycott wotc proxy/play the game

[@blkvnm6003]

Look i don't want to be rude but the limited style works for 95% of secret lairs. Besides marvel, hitsuke, and monty python all other secret lairs have lasted from a day to 4 weeks. The other hatsuke planeswalkers were released on september 30 yet are still available same goes for ghostbusters and chucky. Just because it has an IP doesn't mean it will sell. Now 100% they should of known this and they definitely fumbled, that being said I don't think we should throw out a system that works 95% of secret lairs. I think for big stuff they know will sell fast they should give emails to wotc accounts 2 months before releasing the art. So it be like hey jenny a ub sl will release in november the foil is $40 and non foul is $30 would you like to put in as a placeholder. You say yes then when it is revealed if you are not interested you can cancel but if you accepted when you got the email you are guaranteed it. So basically they will do 1 printrun for people who have wotc accounts. And another that is limited for anyone that doesn't have an account. I think thats the best to hold out for because they wont go print to demand it makes to less of money. So this way consumers are happy and wotc makes the most $ they can on a SL

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

Everybody is crying about not wanting UB, now theyre crying they cant get it, oh thats just too bad

[@sidt6377]

Play Flesh and Blood

[@jumpkicking]

I think a lot of people missed what Secret Lair was supposed to be, and what it was originally marketed as. Exclusive, with the point being you were not going to get *everything* and what you got was something supposed to be as close to unique as it gets. Things were supposed to be a spur of the moment, where something dropped and the people looking at the time could pick something up not everyone was going to have. It was a treasure you got for being in the right place at the right time. The whole "Can you keep a secret" is that you weren't supposed to tell anyone so the odds had it you had something unique, but of re-prints, not entirely new cards. The prospect of functional reprints with in house mtg flavour is all they need to fix it. Sure you won;t get the "Wolverine" theme variant, but later on in some set it will pop up as some in house mtg character as a functional copy. Now we live in an era where *everything* is leaked and spoiled and nothing surprising is borne anymore. Everyone wants it and gets entitled to it, because of their desire. The point was to have something magical, and initially it wasn't poorly received. Sure, scalpers ruins it, but there's an undeniable sense of glee everyone reading this has had when you get something other's don't have at some point, at some time. Everyone's bragged about their unique thing either directly or in passing hoping to get reactions, so no one is above this concept. There's tonnes of things that no one has really addressed and that have and always will be exclusive. Comicon products, event products, promos, collector boosters, figures, marvel's own limited ed. and rare comics... All things anyone who has one doesn't want the entire world to have one. Commander is almost always casual and for times when it's not, tough. I don't have every dual, I don't have many reserve list cards that people hold as treasures retaining incredible value and prestige due to it being a "right place right time" scenario no different when you boil it down. You weren't there, you got unlucky, that's life. Cards I used to enjoy playing with are now banned and everyone agreed that the bans were a stupid decision, but still would say "that's banned" and that was disappointing, but i got over it. I know for a fact half the people salty and frothing at the mouth would be more than happy to receive a copy if it meant taking it from someone they don't know who should of had it, it's human nature. If you want to run proxies to play fun games with friends, do so. If you eventually get a "in house" mtg flavour functional copy, run a sleeve on your commander that mimics the art, no one is going to care. Get one altered... Alters are legitimately fine. In regards to the cope for a "multiverses beyond" I would wager that's just not going to happen. The fact is that these licences were expensive, and we know they run out, and we know they won;t pay for a second more than they need so the odds are that they are not going to re-apply for an purchase twenty different licences for a set to please us. The likely scenario is that they all get re-invented like Eleven: Cecily, Haunted Mage, and Chun Lee : Whatever she is called.. and then peppered into different sets over time. This was always the nature it was marketed at. This isn't the first time we got this reminder, and yeah Wizards could of made a lot more printing to demand, but they gave us a reminder of what Secret Lair is. And people need to stop saying "It's for new players", it's not. It's for people who want it who happen to get it. The product for new players is the starter foundations collectors, pre-cons, the starter assassin's creed stuff... This is for those who want to try their luck. It's not even the most egregious act. No one bashed lego for their lottery tours, Pokemon has lottery draws of highly collectible stuff peddled as collectible, and there's a billion other examples of exclusive product across a myriad of franchises. I get you may be mad, upset, or dissapointed... it happens... but don;t let your indignation delude you into a sense of entitlement. This is what Secret Lair always was, they told everyone in advance and you can't go your entire life feeling entitled to whatever you want.I never forgot what secret lair was, I don;t get what I want, but I don't sit there screaming into my pillow at night.

[@TemjinZero]

You would be right about the secret part until wotc themselves started marketing the bloody things like any other product. That completely changes the type of product that these are to begin with unfortunately. We're basically back to From the Vaults... But LGS get no benefit.

[@codynapier4795]

Managed to snag 5 foil sets, one for myself and four to resell. Got lucky on the buy. I got the time out error after a two hour wait, but a quick refresh took me to the checkout page. I'm going to wait to resell until all the other resellers finish their race to the bottom. These SL will be stupid expensive after the main Marvel sets drop.

[@Starkipraggy]

@@codynapier4795 ladies and gentlemen, we have a scalper