The Master and His Emissary: Conversation with Dr. Iain McGilchrist

While in the UK, recently, I had a chance to sit down for an all-too-short half-hour with Dr. Iain McGilchrist, author of The Master and His Emissary (description below). Our conversation was taped by Perspectiva (bit.ly/2EOCiU0), who described it as follows: "An extraordinary half-hour conversation about the brain, chaos, order, freedom, evil, mythology, being, and becoming between two of the leading thinkers of our time."
Dr. McGilchrist's book (Amazon description: a fascinating exploration of the differences between the brain’s left and right hemispheres, and how those differences have affected society, history, and culture) is available here:
Amazon US: amzn.to/2BABakL
Amazon Canada: amzn.to/2EBjQis
Amazon UK: amzn.to/2EMGuU5
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[@danielduggan5495]

Iain was my first psychiatrist, I was 19 and saw him very frequently, - one of my friends was a fellow patient, from the off he was intensely kind and extremely interested in my feelings. He treated me with a sense of consideration and thoughtful compassion and introduced me to a method of dealing much much later, I’m nearly 50! , such that I no longer use or feel I require psychiatric medications as I’ve come to a place where understanding and seeing others on their terms, being in touch with faith, music, art, quiet spaces has let me listen. And listening is key for me to myself and those I interact with daily- but deep listening not overhearing!

[@SorryBeeinLate]

Could you expand on the coping method that you were introduced to?I know that these things are multifaceted and not always easy to describe, but I would be greatful if you tried to summarize your experience with it!

[@Beginners_Bushcraft]

The video of this conversation is roughly 10% the length it should be in my opinion.

[@thelol77]

Nathan Wallace yep. A rare dude who's right on JBP's wavelength. I'd listen to them talk every week if I could.

[@CelticSaint]

I thought about 9.4% but in the same ball park.

[@matttgray]

Yes. I'd gladly sit through a 10-part series with these two

[@KingofKingsWorshipCenter]

They bring out the best in eachother. One genius + One genius = INFINITE possibilities

[@TheeFitnessEnthusiast]

1*

[@khatack]

This McGilchrist dude is awesome, you should record conversations like this with him more.

[@Wingedmagician]

khatack he’s like the perfect conversation partner for JP. They’re dealing with the same things. I would give an arm or leg to have a podcast with these two.

[@RSanchez111]

Rob Vel not just that their dealing with the same things, but also through different perspectives and we can gain a better understanding through different perspectives.

[@RepublicConstitution]

khatack He makes me think of a Victorian era grand thinker

[@bigcheesepuff1]

Nice to see Jordan challenged at this level. Gonna have to extract a reading list from this vid.

[@shiblet]

I was very disappointed. When people discuss evil they always seem to take a dispassionate abstract approach and formulate easy platitudes about it. There was a psychiatrist on C2C last night that attends exorcisms as a medical specialist. He claimed that a particular case, which is in his upcoming book, patient J., was a high level witch who became possessed by a powerful demon. She was levitating, remote viewing, and remote communicating etc. Jung also wrote a brilliant article on the Wotan archetype as a spirit that possessed Nazi Germany. The Luciferian slaughter of millions in cold blood sounds to me like a possession case. Tackle these true anomalies rather than formulate platitudes, please!

[@chuglyc]

Without a doubt my favorite conversation between two human beings. Both such generous characters and so wonderfully articulate. The first time I could liken a conversation to a great piece of music played on two well crafted instruments. You gentlemen made music for me with this one. Bravo

[@cheri238]

I just found Iain McGilchrist books here recently a few months ago and his lectures as now in April 22, 2023. I have seen the one already with Jordan Peterson on Dr. McGilchrist new book, "The Matter With Things," Our Brains and Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World." So, I am going to sit this one out and just listen to ages of great mausoleums speak. LOL Educational vestments of condolences. I love Iain McGilchrist books and all those he speaks with. (We all should remain taciturn.) The poem by Richard Horvey "The Sea Gypsy." I am fervered with the sunset, I am fretful with the bay, For the wonder- thirst is in me. And my soul is in Cathay. There's a shooner in the offing, With her topsails with fire. For the islands of desire. I must forth again tomorrow! With the sunset I must be Hull down the point of rapture In the wonder of the sea. Something to think about: 1. What could make the topsails of a ship to be "shot with fire?" 2. What does the "hull down" mean in connections with ships and the sea? 3. What does the poet mean "Islands of desire?" What to do: Does the poet keep up with times? See whether you can find a poet, instead of talking about masks and sails, speak of steam, electricity and propellers. You may discover how to write poems yourself. Or do you think that poets should not deal with modern civilization? Organize a panel of debates by poets and critics and progress. You will want to find poems that deal with work and workers, and perhaps statements telling their opinions with regard to the materials of poetry today. Those members of the class who are more interested in painting in and drawing than in writing may wish to prpare a bulletin board exhibit of the work of modern artists showing that they may use all subjects of our modern life as subjects for their creative work. I love libraries. (I think Carl Jung did just that in his book which was hid away in a bank vault for many years, for he had not wanted it to be published for worry of what the critics might say. Gleefully I am so grateful for the estate of Carl Jung, allowed Sonu Shamdasani to edit it and with an Introduction "The Redbook." 2009. Or even one may take the marvelous etchings of Leonardo da Vinci and see the outlay of designs of his inner life. As with other great masters of art, or just someone who loves to paint for the love of within one's heart. I also feel that with music for centuries. Once again, creativity. Furthermore we must not leave out our honorable physicist, mathematicians, biologists, anthropologist, any form of sciences out either. Definitively Einstein was one among many of influences there. The one closest to my heart was Telsa, he understood the thunder and lightning as it layed in his dreams. Now we have to thank our linguistic professors also and the study of languages. How can one learn all these things in a lifetime? As I reflect here, it is serendipitous . Gathering all of this mental anguish at times, I am so very grateful to my papa instilling in me to be an iconoclast. Thank all for philosophy starting with Gilgamesh Epic, and work one ways up for centuries, and we cannot leave out religious divisions and wars for centuries. Thankfully, psychology enters in and develops with Sigmund Freud, and C. J. Jung. Jung is my choice and look at this field today, may we all be grateful.

[@WillzMaster85]

This man is changing my life day by day. I've recently been gravitated toward his youtube videos in a time when my life was conquered by chaos and extreme gradual entropy. His way of thinking and interpreting the world and its attributes are so profound thats its changing my whole point of view of the world. As a black young man (21 years old to be exact) going to college, I've been surrounded by a huge glob of extreme left ideologies thats been interfering with my field of vision for the past few years. My ignorance of identity politics destroying the university at heart has eventually led me to this sort of blindness that is seen across most disciplines and with many of my peers. It is the work and ideas of Dr. Peterson that has led me to see this work of identity politics and post modernism, and has made me act against it. His work as also changed my life in other obvious (although not as obvious at times) ways, such as sorting out whats in front of you (the meme of cleaning your room, for example), which has a compounding effect on my sortation of life. Thank you for using the new media of the world (youtube for instance) to reach out to people of all ethnicities and ages with your words of encouragement, realness, and compassion. May your life and the rest of ours become the best version of itself.

[@king-george-V]

Good on you, man!

[@humblebugg5270]

Were all on this hard road together man!!

[@d4n4nable]

One of the things I always find sad when hearing (especially American) black people talk about things is the racialized way of viewing the world, that seems to be shared more recently by, say, the alt-right for white people. Ideas like "black experience," "black this," black that." As if your skin color was a central focus point of your identity. Because of the omnipresence of that particular worldview, it seems difficult to just *be,* as an individual. I never once in my life thought of myself as a "white XYZ," in any function I ever had. I was just... myself. That's a much more wholesome way of looking at the world, where you don't have to load all the injustices and expectations and problems of a whole group on your own being. All the worse that people like the alt-right want to infest white people, who used to be largely free from this nonsense, with this cancerous attitude. Because of Dr. Peterson's focus on the development of the individual as the central meaning of life, and the inferiority of collectivism, I think he'd be a phenomenal figure for black communities to listen to.

[@d4n4nable]

I don't think I was downplaying it. I don't really know how much they face, and I wasn't really quantifying it. My point wasn't even so much about anti-white sentiments of black people. It's larger than that. Just look at this recent hysteria about the Black Panther movie. We read about how we finally see "black faces," and "black hair," and "black wardrobe," and so on, and so on. But more than the physical attributes, many commentators seem to invoke some spiritual "black experience" or "blackness," that isn't properly defined, mystical, meta-physical. It's really akin to how the alt-right talks about "whiteness." Yet it's parroted in all major establishment media publications as a positive worldview. We also see this in how common it is in certain (non-coincidentally poor) black communities to attribute behaviors to skin color. There is tremendous peer pressure to "act black," and not to, "act white." The latter is an "Uncle Tom" who adopts bourgeois lifestyle, a certain decorum, mannerisms, speech pattern, etc. The former basically does everything to get at the man, to not conform to "the man" (or "white man?"). That's incredibly poisenous. Culture has nothing to do with skin color. But it has a lot to do with success in life. And therefore we see other minorities with similar levels of hatred directed against them succeed, because their value systems are "better" and not wrongly conflating the issues. And, ironically, the lack of success in blacks as a group leads to (racist) white people being strengthened in their views, as well as to (racist) black people feeling validated that the system is rigged.

[@Graplernapler]

WillTheOz wise comment my friend. I'm so happy to see other fellow travelers of JBPs wisdom taking his teachings to heart and acting them out in their life. The best of luck to you.

[@awestruckperson]

Jordan Peterson talking to the kind of people he should be talking to

[@TheRazzaManazza]

Yes! More of this please! Less bickering with the media. I know... I'm a year late.

[@geoff_lol]

Absolutely. This was extremely engaging to watch, and it didn't even raise my blood pressure.

[@investmentbankerha5796]

And not Sam Harris

[@dll7658]

Lol yeah. This was such a rare and pleasant surprise

[@penguin0101]

Yeah, best to stay away from the journalists

[@c3cubed]

Beautiful minds jamming, creating new tunes for the intellect. This kind of dialogue was at a time, commonplace in the lecture halls of the great universities. It began to disappear and was eventually snuffed by the late 1970's. Alas, we are now witnessing the rebirth of such minds being unshackled by the new technology, and allowed again to roam free and regroup tentacles collectively. A decade or two from now - from the perspective of hindsight, we will view these video transcripts as the resurrection of the revisionist-enlightenment. A new Golden Age.

[@TheDionysianFields]

Or perchance, a new renaissance.

[@MattFRox]

In What Universities have you observed this phenomenon?

[@johnburman966]

Some great mind said, wider dissemination of ideas does not necessarily mean more, it can mean dilution of existing.

[@engineeredtruths8935]

A false enlightenment. Scripted reality, the "plague" with a 0,1% mortality rate. False information everywhere, fake scripted reality in a post truth world does not allow for a true enlightenment from the Uncreated Light which is the Logos incarnate known has Jesus Christ. In a post truth and post reality world the enlightenment is a lie of serpents silver lying tongues, false promises and delusions of Utopia, what it allows for is great minds to help evil Minds achieve their goals of stealing creation from Creator.

[@vornamenachname9820]

This kind of dialogue was at a time commonplace: Exactly! Also after the 1970s. And we who participated ought to revive it and practice it in our private circles and hold (or first, elevate / haul up) our peers to a higher standard of thinking and making arguments, effect immediate.

[@cmonkey63]

Listening to these two men discuss ideas is like listening to two accomplished jazz musicians in a duo, pushing the boundaries of their skills, and making each other smile. Wonderful.

[@groundedtruth1358]

This is one of the most profound and deep conversations I've heard JP have with another intellectual. Truly amazing. You could watch this many times over and find something new each time. Here's hoping that JP and Sam Harris' upcoming discussion offers comparable value.

[@daviszollars3356]

Grounded Truth It just came out how you already watch it multiple times?

[@groundedtruth1358]

I watched it on the Perspectiva channel earlier today! Amazing conversation.

[@daviszollars3356]

Grounded Truth oh nice

[@kremesauce]

Is he having the conversation with Sam on sam’s channel?

[@entengummitiger1576]

Two public events that will be made available in Sam's podcast

[@C_R_O_M________]

I can hardly believe this is happening!! Explaining: I am a psychologist with training in existential psychotherapy and a follower of McGilchrist's and Sperry-Gazzaniga's work on split brain patients. Yesterday I thought rather intensively how good it would be to have Dr. Peterson's views on the matter and I was ready to email him to ask. Today this!!! That's purely metaphysical!!!!! P.S. it ended rather abruptly! Is there more?

[@awendigowithinternetaccess4400]

C_R_O_M__________ Well that's awesome. 😊

[@emiki6]

Synchronicity

[@hv4285]

@@emiki6 Jung is smiling from above. Synchronicity indeed.

[@academiaars-moriendi2060]

Yes, other videos with Petersen and McGilchrist, like The Divided Brain. And others interviews of McGilchrist. All of them aree great. Enjoy!

[@joe-un1ky]

This was beyond fantastic, one of the best discussions Jordan has had easily.

[@boogersqueezer]

Please do more conversations like this JBP! Along side with sharing your ideas, using your popularity to introduce us to great people's work is truly important.

[@longtailgar]

Amen! :)

[@cheri238]

💯 correct

[@sminter7521]

This conversation needs to be had again, but lengthened about an hour or two!

[@khatack]

The creation thing in the end of the video, retreating, breaking down and repairing into better, is the very mechanism that generates muscle growth. I think there's something a lot more fundamental to that idea than mere mental development.

[@loungarounda]

khatack I totally agree, and JP has talked about the idea a lot. It's like a Forrest builds up leaves and debris that died and fall on the ground, Forrest fires burn off the debris and fertilizes the soil. Cool concept

[@ArkonPT]

It's present across many aspects of existance. An archetype of sorts one could assume.

[@francismercier90]

I totally agree with you. I also agree with the idea of life being like music. Vibrations and patterns breaking and reconnecting all the time to create a sort of flow. I think that we can connect a lot of dots here. Muscle synthesis is essential to become stronger the same way vibrations of music are in a constant "break/repair" cycle that creates the flow. The difference here is only the time of the process. Music is almost instantly and muscle synthesis takes a bit more time to make the cycle.

[@ArkonPT]

Francis Mercier Yes, the concepts of tension and resolution in music connect really well with damage and repair / growth.

[@anastaciocastro89]

It's all about balance life needs balance and on top of that everything goes thru phases retreating into knowing the world you in live in.. Breaking down by not accepting the world you live in... Repairing the world you live in for future generations

[@underthefigtree9524]

Re-watching this video now after 4 months. Still one of my absolute favourites of Dr. Peterson's conversations. Maybe THE favourite.

[@Ic3m4n1047]

- So when does the book come out? - When I'm done writing it. *THUG LIFE*

[@Robb3348]

ahahahaa nice

[@hester234]

What a great conversation, I really hope you both meet again and sit down for at least three hours, these deep ideas could flourish with more words and time.

[@VidJuracic]

what a great conversation! Thanks!

[@wilpuriarts5895]

Vid Juracic, Yes. The political drama is exhausting, this is refreshing.

[@ritahollund6266]

fantastic to see you look so happy and stimulated. Thank you so much for let us in on this conversation!! And thank you for being you and stand up for us humans in this crazy times where every thing feels like we being lied to and no one telling truth anymore. Big hug to you and your family. May your life be filled with more interesting conversation, love and good health. // Rita

[@markbrowne181]

scintillating conversation! My mind was on fire with ideas and trying to keep up. It was fantastic and inspiring.

[@astorbennett1203]

Absolutely brilliant exchange of ideas. If our world needs more of anything, it’s definitely more videos like this. Keep up the great work Dr. Peterson. We are grateful for you.

[@MusicViddeos]

I'm glad to see Astor has matured post-Dexter and is watching Jordan Peterson videos

[@johannamurk6897]

The beginning of this conversation brought tears to my eyes as I had my biggest issue in myself explaned so clearly that I now have just the knowledge left on the issue that I can further use in my development. The rest of the conversation was very enjoyable as well, for me this is the prime material available on the internet. Thank you so much for doing this!

[@SGTBizarro]

The pace at which these two discuss these ideas is almost unbelievable. They aren't referring to notes every 10 seconds, they're just having an intricate and elaborated chat about some very deep subjects without skipping a beat. Great talk!

[@LibertarianJRT]

Thank you both for this. This is a fascinating conversation. Well done.

[@memopinzon]

This one was incredibly interesting and enjoyable.

[@jesteranonisgamegameover2321]

Simply blown away by the flow of ideas and their presentation. These 2 great minds offer a glimmer of hope that not all is lost in the times we live in.

[@Cian1312]

"yes"

[@hennyzhi2261]

hmmm, yes, hmmm, yes, hmm ... It's no wonder why being British makes you sound cool.

[@SnoozeTheRecluse]

I agree with you

[@kristinapeseva1]

This is simply beautiful.

[@ghengistron1425]

This was a great introduction of knowing how to have a conversation with one another. I love how they can change each others terms for their intuitions, which in turn adds to the richness of their own ideas.

[@tomhamilton5707]

Wonderful! Thank you for recording this and sharing the insights. Very tightly packed discussion.

[@charlesw2520]

This helped me learn to get over my own anxiousness by allowing myself to let go control and to allow and trust that part of my brain to take control. Thank you so much

[@euttdsiggh2783]

Wooow, 2 videos in the same hour! My lucky day!

[@gabrielggripp]

yes, yes, yes, yes

[@ferce889]

XD ikr

[@GroundBeef1]

I read this in a high british accent automaticly.

[@CelticSaint]

What a wonderful conversation. Thank you for making it happen!

[@austinricketts2538]

Dr. Peterson, have you ever read any Process Theology? I am especially intrigued to know that answer. When you and Dr. McGilchrist talk about the dipolarity of being, it starts to sound very similar to Charles Hartshorne. This is a fascinating conversation. You're doing great work!

[@HeyItsNorby]

Dr. Iain is being slept on. Great conversation!

[@9ZenMedia]

Norbert Reyes what does “being slept on” mean?

[@HeyItsNorby]

Shaun Vickers like not that much people are aware of his work or hasn’t payed much attention to it. He has a bunch of presentations on KZbin if you go search him. 👍

[@seabound1350]

Wonderful conversation!

[@chris432t6]

Would love to hear another talk between these two wonderful minds. Enjoyed every minute. Thank you.

[@kremesauce]

Love talks like these where both of you are curious and asking questions. Fantastic video please keep it up!

[@DoseofTruth]

Looking forward to listening to this. Rarely does jordan upload one video, let alone two. Great!

[@handler8838]

Buckol UP!

[@PorkSodaOnTheRocks]

Dose of Truth i

[@zo1dberg]

Three if you count the Chinese New Year video!

[@thatwasprettyneat]

don't listen to it too loud; there are some loud distortions later in the video

[@etagged]

This is one of the most thoughtful interviews that I've heard in a long time, Haidt and Paglia were great but they only spoke about what they clearly knew. As long as academics like Peterson and McGilchrist talk about what they know AND what they suspect or wish to know, we'll be alright.

[@jbsunsett31]

Wow, I love this conversation.

[@pippagatz]

How could ever tire about conversation like this!

[@stuartbowenjr8393]

A most profound discussion of being and understanding. Standing on the border of order and chaos is a good idea. Encounter as much uncertainty as you can tolerate. Limitation and threat provide meaning and insight. I will never tire of listening to this exchange. Thank you Jordan and Ian. Please visit again online and provide us all the chance to see more.

[@grahamhobbs3501]

I read The Master and His Emissary a few years back, when it came out - very dense but twinkling with consciousness altering insights. - great to see JP engaging with him

[@anitadavis5430]

Just wow. This was fascinating. Somewhat different vocabulary than Dr. Peterson usually uses, but man many linked ideas. Just yummy for my inquiring mind.

[@williamkoscielniak820]

This might be one of the most sublime, stimulating, beautiful, soul and mind stimulating conversations I've ever heard.

[@chantellegiardina5098]

This was one of the best conversations on the internet. Loved all of the questions and the profoundness of the answers.

[@NotTheWheel]

I've been more used to Professor Peterson being the interviewee - he does a terrific job as the interviewer does he not? I believe so.

[@9ZenMedia]

NotTheWheel every video of him interviewing someone on his channel is great.

[@TOKRocK84]

Watch the podcast with Wim Hof (if you like). There is a clip from it called 'physical path to exploring the hero archetype' where the two of them come together so perfectly, like them here in this vid.

[@robertbentley3589]

No.

[@amyjie2051]

Loved the interview. I think more discussions on psychology research with their authors would be an awesome addition to your channel.

[@TheNateWalking]

One of your best conversations! Thank you.

[@RageDirtyIrby]

Amazing conversation to listen in on. Thank you Mr. Peterson

[@nornront8749]

Wow... that was amazing. I need to think about this but it has been very insightful

[@intellectualintentions9693]

Love the new posts

[@davidgeorge3132]

Wonderful discussion. Thank you gentlemen.

[@BasedGob]

Absolutely fascinating conversation. Would love to see more content like this

[@deckard3755]

The most interesting half an hour on KZbin. How about a longer interview sometime?

[@9ZenMedia]

D Cognit i wouldn’t be surprised if it was cut shorter because of worsening sound issues.

[@MrSQUABify]

Great discussion. So grateful content like this exists free for all to find.

[@sophonax661]

MrSQUABify Exactly! It creates a good balance to all the shallow make-up and kitty videos on KZbin.

[@jsyvret472]

Listening to two great intellects and individuals talk so passionately is awe inspiring

[@Magsent]

Thankyou so much for posting that Dr. Peterson. Such a joy to hear two great minds speak to truth. I feel nourished and uplifted. God bless you both.

[@aaronroberts7119]

Pet a lobster whenever you see one!

[@joe-un1ky]

Always assume that the lobster you're talking to knows something you don't

[@awendigowithinternetaccess4400]

The part concerning death really struck me. I have for a long time thought that death is necessary to live fully. Immortality is called a curse for a reason.

[@lightwarrior1982]

Riku Morwing In the dualist realm death is necessary for life to even be. It's the prime limitation he talks about. In a sense death is life/being, but this is only born out in the mind to affirm the illusion of a separate self. We are continually dieing through never being able to grasp the true nature of being, no matter how hard we might try!

[@awendigowithinternetaccess4400]

lightwarrior1982 Yep.

[@anthonyhudson3540]

Riku Morwing what about the idea of resurrection ? The idea of birth, life, death, resurrection in an eternal process. Maybe each subsequent rebirth predicates an improvement on the previous incarnation.

[@skybike89]

What a lovely conversation, I could listen to these guys go at it for days.

[@alexismiller8978]

Amazing conversation. Thanks

[@thorobliterator1934]

Ive seen the comment that Peterson seems to only talk about the value of order despite the clear need for a balance. I think the reason is because chaos happens naturally, the state of nature is chaos and reality itself is an inexorable force tearing down order. Humans are the agents for order, so while Peterson doesn't think humans should conquer chaos altogether it still behooves him to focus on the order aspect as chaos needs no encouragement or justification: it simply is

[@MongooseTacticool]

Yes, Entropy is inevitable.

[@ArkonPT]

Another concept of physics that's integrated into human nature, it's really mind gripping

[@michaelnice93]

Chaos is may be everpresent but we can be blind to it for various reasons, not the least of which is we can't handle it. I would say we are not on average capable of handling too much chaos, furthermore since we often willfully blind ourselves to it chaos eats us up. So Peterson speaks about voulentarily seeking out and slaying the dragon within before it eats us. Peterson I would say is not all about order. This is what some people on the right see and others on the left see him as all about chaos and destroying their worldview. We need to see right and left as partners, it's something that Don Beck says in spiral dynamics happens at second teir consciousness. Before that level of unfoldment the mind simply dose not have the ability. That explains why so many can't hear what he is saying, he's blowing thier minds literally.

[@johndouglas6183]

Chaos happens naturally... and so does order. Every pattern, every thing that is stable or solid is an expression of order. Each diamond contains billions of billions of carbon atoms all neatly lined up. Instead, I think Peterson seems to talk mainly about the value of order because he is fundamentally conservative. He thinks a mostly orderly society with a little chaos to keep it alive and slowly improving is the best long-term strategy. A liberal would prefer more chaos, with faster (and RISKIER) evolution toward society's final form.

[@chadc8343]

Thor Obliterator. I think you are wrong about this. The claim you are making -- 'that nature is a state of chaos' -- is what Peterson would identify as an ideology. An ideology -- in the Petersonian sense -- is a fragment of a religion. It is a view which only addresses either the positive or the negative aspect of Reality. Nature has both a positive and a negative aspect - both creation and destruction, both chaos and order; it is both Benevolent Mother which provides for the necessities of life, and it is smallpox and malaria and the entropy that wears things down and destroys them. Why does Peterson talk about Order all the time when really - in order to be consistent with his his own message - he should be talking about maintaining a balance between order and chaos? I am inclined to think it is for pedagogical reasons - meaning “the balance message” would be harder for people to understand and so he only goes into that after people are ready to go deeper.

[@roddydykes7053]

Ah, interesting point about the Wall of Eden keeping out snakes, vs making yourself strong enough to contend with the snakes, goes well with the current conundrum in the States.

[@anthonyhudson3540]

Illuminating and fascinating. More of this please.

[@gyrogearloose1345]

I can barely dare to speak. These great minds in their intricate and enormous scope of conversation - from each their own funds of knowledge and insight - shine a powerful beacon of light toward the future.If only we will be wise and brave enough to follow . . .

[@vixendixon6943]

My brain is eventually going to get too big for my skull listening to guys like these two, and I am going to need a new host for it. But I am prepared to make that sacrifice. More of the same please!

[@king-george-V]

Hey Jordan, come to Germany! We need your ideas here!

[@Mercurio_volante]

Oh yes, we absolutely do.

[@XavianBrightly]

I'm not german (i am however german-american) but i agree.

[@dominickaulen6853]

Das wäre schön:)

[@RexOrwell]

You have his ideas in Germany. They're on the Internet.

[@king-george-V]

Rex Or Well yes, but public awareness of Peterson is pretty much non-existent, and hate speech laws like the ones that have brought Peterson to prominence have been in place for a number of years and are being put in place as I type this comment. The Netzdurchsuchungsgesetz that passed last year is a good example of this. A public appearance by Peterson would have a similar effect as it did in Britain when he was visiting there.

[@amarie9497]

BRAVO!...a marvelous conversation.

[@miyamotomusashi4122]

2 uploads back to back. Thank you Dr. Jordan!

[@RSanchez111]

Great stuff! I think Dr. Peterson could re-examine how he presents his ideas. There were many times in the conversation where Dr. McGilchrist says something like "it seems to me like you believe so-and-so", then Dr. Peterson elaborates on it and Dr. McGilchrist agrees with the elaboration. Although I do understand that Dr. Peterson's recent interviews don't give him much time to elaborate on his positions. Maybe Dr. McGilchrist hasn't seen Dr. Peterson's lectures. I also find Dr. McGilchrist's idea of God more becoming than being extremely interesting. It reminds me of Teilhard's omega point.

[@C_R_O_M________]

Language is an inadequate tool for describing reality, more so if we're dealing with such an infinite concept as God. I believe that the right hemisphere is more attuned to what God IS. It's our non-verbal hemisphere (minus exceptionally rare cases of individuals where both hemispheres have the ability to talk). It is possibly the reason that meditational practices bring people closer to the state we call "enlightenment" than those (of people) that accumulate (and store/learn/process) written/spoken knowledge. In other words describing "being" to ourselves through logic and the logos falls short to the entirety of what "being" is. In philosophy (I read it in a book that I had to present in my doctoral program of existential psychotherapy, by Carl Jaspers) we call this problem the subject/object dichotomy in which when a subject thinks (in terms of language) it's inevitably separated from the state of his/her whole "being". In my opinion the two hemispheres ideally should have their own "practice"/usage time throughout's one day. I ride my motorcycle or listen to music and that sharpens up my right hemisphere (singing or playing a musical instrument helps too). Then I write, speak or listen to talks like this and that sharpens my left. It's kinda like this.

[@antnfs]

“It seems to me like you believe...” = “So you’re saying...”

[@RSanchez111]

ant64boob nah, Dr. McGilchrist was actually interested in understanding Dr. Peterson correctly and actually agreed with him.

[@RSanchez111]

C_R_O_M__________ Dr. Peterson has some interesting ideas with regards to this. You can consider our non-verbal hemisphere as taking the world in as it is (or its closest approximation of the world as it is), and our verbal hemisphere takes a tiny slice of that and makes sense of it to act in the world. Our values and our sense of meaning gives our verbal hemisphere direction to find the tiny slice it needs from the non-verbal hemisphere. Another way to see it is, our verbal hemisphere is our focal vision, and our non-verbal hemisphere is our peripheral vision. And we do have times when we practice either hemisphere. The verbal hemisphere gets practice during our waking hours, while the non-verbal hemisphere gets practice during our sleeping hours, while we dream.

[@calbaking]

Remember the gentlemen arent there to necessarily agree with eachother, and are likely trying to view things with a critical eye, so it would therefore be necessary to focus on the subjects of these statements. That is perhaps to say that even if they could elaborate endlessly, the difference in their life experiences would still likely result in the same sort of questions being asked. I am enjoying the interview so far.

[@riptmedia7416]

Love Jordan so wise 😁

[@captaincheese-beard6316]

Mind blowing! More of these please!

[@billh1983]

Wow! What a beautiful display of cooperative interaction of two obviously great minds. Speaking musically like an operatic duet or the great duet from Bach's cantata 78. Their conversation flows magically.

[@DrEhrfurchtgebietend]

I am glad you had a conversation at a bit of a higher level. After russell brand it was needed

[@itsalwayssomething7490]

I used to draw from a book called "Drawing from the right side of the brain," and it deals with training that part of the brain to look at objects as lines and shapes, and to really analyze the contours and how they flow into each other. Part of the exercises include to draw without looking down at what your drawing at all. Or to draw from a picture, but the picture is upside down. This allows for the right/brain to organize the lines and shapes without thinking about the object itself and what it's suppose to look like. Drawing symmetrical shapes/lines is another exercise. This allowed me to see better while drawing and to understand the relationship between an object and space. After drawing for more than 35 years, I can't tell you how hard it was to activate this part for me. I look at things so abstractly. Anyway, nice work Dr. Peterson.

[@fieryphoenix8428]

Me too. It does do a good job of helping you to know when you're in a left or right sided state of mind. Book on a similar theme, "Flow" by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi

[@HMALDANA]

The living spirit of conversation in action! What a beautiful and profound interweaving of ideas!

[@bajorjor1]

the lighting is awesome and the conversation enlightening.

[@HowlingFantods]

I had a radical personality shift when I learned about some rather spicy information from Charles Murray and the realities of evolutionary biology. Completely changed my political and sociological beliefs.

[@Milestonemonger]

The right hemisphere of our brain is looking for predators, while the left side is looking for prey. Wow!

[@TOKRocK84]

Man, I had what "They" call a psychosis. I saw a snake and a winged lion-like cat on my left within that experience. I bet it is opposite, like with the hands. And I recently watched maps of meaning, the dragon of chaos being an amalgam of the 3 main categories of predators, snake, bird of prey, cat of prey, to represent THE predator. My experience was 2019, You might grasp how freakin excited I am!

[@niksx4454]

@@TOKRocK84 Holy, can you please please elaborate a bit? When did it happen, how, when did it go away?

[@JulianMarkus]

The right hemisphere of our brain is looking for to strive, while the left side is looking for to strifle. The right is to be getting better and better, the left is to be getting worse and worse because it is aiming only what is necessary on the short run. Nevertheless pragmatic viewpoint exists in an illusory way. The lesson is that the predator is the individual, the right chasing the left, the truth is prey and hunter are one.

[@okedoge]

Fantastic talk

[@vikidprinciples]

This Conversation was Soul Nourishing.

[@tomfool43]

Fascinating discussion, I would love to hear either or both men talking with the eminently rational mystic Rupert Spira.

[@JTorres719]

I already watched this earlier today, so disappointed this was only 30 mins long.

[@YouTubeIsAssHo]

John Torres I see your glass is half-empty, Sir.

[@SpongeBob-yk9oo]

Possibly the most amazing conversation I've ever had the privilege to witness. thank you so much for sharing.

[@Zoharargov]

What a wonderful talk! Thank you!

[@IskalkaQuest2010]

At the same time, Right and Left Hemisphere do not function completely independently. There is a constant feedback. Yes, one has to set them apart in order to study them. However, do they ever work completely separately? I think, no. To truly understand you must put back together that which you separated in order to make distinctions.

[@winsomecohall2250]

IskalkaQuest2010 please check out Robert Sapolsky on utube he is amazing in his lectures on the brain etc

[@EmileBroussard]

This should be a biweekly or monthly dialogue!

[@StateMarketCondo]

Wonderful! Thank you both.

[@neilcorry6979]

Fascinating. Thank you.

[@josesalinas1950]

Can you please have another talk with him? Half an hour isn't enough :v

[@toomuchinformation]

Joe Salinas Check out his lectures on YT and get his book: "The Master and His Emissary"

[@WarpathHatred]

this is a fantastic conversation. Dr Peterson talks to many people about a good conversation being where the parties leave better than they came and I think this is a good example. the Joe rogan podcast is more Joe and us learning from him but this is better

[@thehighwayman78]

Mooore! Give us more of this! Too short! What a fantastic discussion.

[@LudvigIndestrucable]

I've loved McGilchrist's work for a long time, I am absolutely thrilled to see such diapason between the two neurocognative and cognitive-psychological disciplines. Bringing chaos out of order.

[@chase1671]

I think Dr. Peterson has something very important to learn from McGilchrist and I hope he spends a a long time pondering these ideas, because in my opinion he is often guilty of the heavily left brained thinking McGilchrist is pointing out. You can tell McGilchrist knows this, as he has spent a lot of time critiquing philosophers. I'm glad they found a lot of common ground as well. Edit: McGilchrist didn't really get into many of his core ideas in this conversation, it's very much worth watching his other lectures and reading his book to understand his viewpoint. They are some of the most important ideas of this century, no doubt.

[@MarmaladeINFP]

You are right. And I'd love to to get a stronger dialogue or debate on that point. But McGilchrist seems more humble than confrontational.

[@Eronoc13]

Yes, absolutely. I came to this interview hoping that the topic would come up, but all that happened was a highlight of Peterson's weakness in the areas so astutely considered by McGilchrist.

[@jacksong1056]

The process idea and the forthcoming book sound very Whiteheadian. His idea that intelligence is incorporated into the fundamental nature of atoms (or, now, strings et.al.) has always intrigued me. It would explain a lot such as God becoming, the Akashic record, Plato's question about the source of knowledge. Look forward to the book.

[@woofmeow4273]

Clearly there is an intelligence beyond human comprehension that would have to permeate all of reality (Universe, ecosystems, lifeforms, bacteria, atoms, strings and further infinite microcosms)

[@Penndennis]

That was absolutely riveting; thank you so much.

[@tgeo2880]

I love this conversation