The Middle Men | Tolkien's Men of Twilight

[@anchuisneoir3973]

Faramir's quote immediately sprung to mind when I saw the first video in this series. I would also say that the Middle men did not rise as high as the Edain nor did they fall as low as them. The Edain "lucked out" in terms of meeting with the elves but fumbled the ball dramatically. For me there´s a plain nature vs nurture element evident here that maybe some on either side of the spectrum would interpret to cast aspersions on Tolkien. A bit drunk so hope this makes sense

[@Davlavi]

Always so poetic.

[@TheRedBook]

One of three videos dedicated to Men of the First Age. This video focuses on the Middle Men. Those Men who did not rise as high as the Elf-friends or as low as the Wild Men. The Edain: The Men of Light - kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIWUoZxre8-cmJo The Middle Men: The Men of Twilight - kzbin.info/www/bejne/enKzm6mmaceYa80 The Wild Men: The Men of Darkness - kzbin.info/www/bejne/n53UlX2meteiqc0 Support The Red Book - www.patreon.com/theredbook

[@Enerdhil]

Thanks for this wonderful series, Steven.

[@emtiger3]

Wonderful, sir! Thank-you, for your insights

[@TheRedBook]

You are welcome!

[@TarMody]

It is said that as a result of the human meeting held in Estolad in the First Age, a group of people who did not want to fight Melkor alongside the elves returned to Eriador in the eastern direction, passing Ered Lindon, and emerged from the tales of that day. I think these people may also be mingling with the Middle Men.

[@GreMnMlin]

Very curious as to where we would place the Bórian Easterlings in this three part categorization. Because they were elf friends who fought Morgoth, but they dont seem to have gone to Nùmenor

[@TRivan-kx2bi]

I think they were wiped out during the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

[@kirandeepchakraborty7921]

What an incredible video. Truly Breathtaking.

[@kirandeepchakraborty7921]

Thanks for bringing out these stories in such a beautiful way.

[@stefandebeer9375]

10:48 I think you've given yourself an idea for another 3-part series akin to his one abt the Men of ME, would it be in your interest to do a similar series on the 3 groups of elves as you described them here at 10:48(not like the 3 groups e.g. Noldor, sindar or silvan)?

[@Enerdhil]

So, skip the Moriquendi/Avari?

[@gilanbarona9814]

I have watched both this and the men of light. I can't wait for the third video. These are outstanding. I do have this question: what of the Druedain? Where would they belong?

[@Enerdhil]

The Druedain are fascinating because they came into Eriador from the South, so they were probably people of color or folks who could get a great tan in the summer. They were not of the three main houses of Men so they can't be called High Men, but instead are Middle Men. Nevertheless, they were never evil. Many moved, I think, to the Brethil area and joined the people of Haleth. They fought in the War of Wrath and earned the right to go to Numenor, but after years, they all decided to move back to Middle Earth before Sauron came.

[@jeffsnyder7290]

Well done!

[@beatleblev]

The Middle Men seem include the middle and lower classes of the Dunedain Kingdom, the Woodsmen of Mirkwood, the tribes of northern Rhovanion, who will become the peoples of Dale, Esgaroth, and the Eorlingas, who will become the people of Rohan. Am I missing anyone? What about the hill people of Rhudaur, the Misty Mountains, and the White Mountains? These tribes, usually resentful of Numenorean colonization, come into conflict with the Dunedain, whether Numenorean or Exile in years to come. There seems to be a divide between Dunedain culture with peaceful coexistence of the men of the West and their native neighbors in the low lands and urban centers on one hand; and a more insular culture among the hill people who, either rebel in an effort to take back what is theirs, or just break their oaths they don't feel are binding. Where do these more western antagonists to the Dunedain fit in this categorization?

[@SNWWRNNG]

Some people antagonistic to Numenorean colonization, like the Dunlendings, were actually related to the Second House of the Edain. But their language was different from that of the First and Third House of the Edain (whose language Taliska became the language of Numenor, Adunaic) and so the Numenoreans didn't recognize them as Edain-related like they did with the leaders they met in Eriador early on.

[@waltonsmith7210]

That's an absolutely brilliant point. That's excellent middle earth anthropology

[@istari0]

@@SNWWRNNG Thanks for answering a question I didn't even know I had!

[@Enerdhil]

How about the Beornings? 🤔What about the people of Tirharad?🤪

[@Ka_T_ya]

Awesome video ,as always !

[@TheSaneHatter]

Viewed through the lens of Tolkien's universe, the phrase, "eliminate the middleman" comes off as . . . unwholesome.

[@shanenolan5625]

Cheers Steven

[@SNWWRNNG]

The most interesting Men who were neither with nor against Morgoth to me (besides the non-Numenorean peoples who were colonized by Numenor and remained Gondorian subjects into at least the Fourth Age) are the relatives of Bor's people who stayed in Eriador. As the Grey Annals (published in HoMe XI) say: It was after thought that the people of Ulfang were already secretly in the service of Morgoth ere they came to Beleriand. Not so the people of Bor, who were worthy folk and tillers of the earth. Of them, it is said, came the most ancient of the Men that dwelt in the north of Eriador in the Second Age and [in?] after-days. They're not related to the Edain, but they are related to the Easterlings of Bor who fought against Morgoth valiantly - they just weren't related to the Three Houses and came into Beleriand when the Three Houses were already established, and so weren't recognized as friends or equals by the Edain. It seems like every Man who crossed the Blue Mountains after the House of Hador was just seen as an "Easterling" (despite the fact that all Men originally came from the east).

[@Enerdhil]

I really appreciate your posts. They are deep and force my lazy brain to consider some brilliant points.😁👍

[@carlwest3441]

I’m sure you’ve been asked this before, but where do you get those wonderful dramatized narrations of the book passages?

[@Tharpyboy]

Nice

[@Mentallect]

Excellent

[@michaelwellen2866]

You don't win great battles, you don't do dastardly deeds. What is it you do? We have a LOT of kids.

[@istari0]

Fascinating video but I'm a bit confused on who some of these groups of people were. The first group is clear enough but the second group is confusing. You say they are men who rejected Morgoth but also refused the gift and summons of the Valar. This seems like events that happened quite some time from each other. Were these the people of Bór the Faithful in The Silmarillion who kept their word and did not betray the Elves at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad? I don't recall anything about them after that battle and have wondered what became of them afterwards or even if any of them survived. If not, then who are they? What is the difference between the Edain who weren't ever able to sail to Númenor (and presumably crossed the Ered Luin) and those fled Beleriand? They seem very similar. Is it just a matter of when they went east? Why is the group of Númenoreans who first settled in Middle-Earth considered Middle Men? I thought they remained Númenorean but trying to read between the lines here, it sounds like you are saying they became a distinct population and at least some became free of being ruled from Númenor.

[@Enerdhil]

Great questions! I hope Steven clarifies your points. I always thought the difference between the various categories of Men had more to do with their level of righteousness/evil, but I suppose there must be some genetic/racial component to those classifications. As usual, what Steven says clarifies many aspects of the lore, but also as usual, you have a great question or two that makes me wonder.😅

[@TRivan-kx2bi]

I think that the Men who rejected both Morgoth and the Valar are people who NEVER entered Beleriand. Both the Silmarillion and the Appendices to LOTR mention Men who were related to the Edain, but who stayed in Eriador. Now, because these people had no contact with the Valar, they weren't blessed with long life like the Numenoreans. As for the people of Bor, I'm pretty sure they were wiped out during the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

[@istari0]

@@TRivan-kx2bi So far as I know, the only Men who the Valar called on to receive their gift were the surviving Edain, which were the first groups of Men to enter Beleriand. I don't think Men who never entered Beleriand were eligible, so to speak.

[@waltonsmith7210]

I think Variags are middle men mercenaries, like Varangians

[@gandalf4751]

😍😍😍👌

[@crowverra5343]

Dorwinion ???

[@TheRedBook]

What about it?

[@blaircolquhoun7780]

They're the Rohirrim.

[@waltonsmith7210]

Castamir the Usurper is like a Dunedain Nazi

[@beegfeeg4473]

First comment

[@beegfeeg4473]

Been waiting a long time for videos on the Men of the West