The Mongol Conquest of Song China, 1230s-1279

How did Kublai Khan conquer one of the most advanced and populous states of his time? This video takes a strategic look at how the Mongols, who initially couldn't even cross 500m of water, eventually beat the Chinese navy and conquered the Song Dynasty. They paid dearly for it, however, and the pressures of conquering China arguably ended the unity of the Mongol Empire.
SCRIPT: strategosstuff.blogspot.com/2...
Chinese names are given in Modern Chinese/Mandarin pinyin. Forgive the Mandarin pronunciation.
All errors are my own. I apologize for the bad sound quality.
▬ CHAPTERS ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
0:00 - Introduction
0:25 - Geography
3:16 - Approaches to War
6:21 - 1230s-1242: Song Attack and Mongol Defense
9:41 - 1247-1259: Flanking the Song
12:15 - 1263-1273: The Siege of Xiangyang
19:39 - 1274-1279: Fall of the Song
24:45 - Conclusions
▬ SOURCES ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Kuhn D. The Age of Confucian Rule. Belknap Press 2009.
Waterson J. Defending Heaven. Frontline Books 2013.
Lo J-P. China as a Sea Power 1127-1368. National University of Singapore Press 2013.
Bai Y-Q. Wengong Wulve de Songyuan Shidai [The Cultured and Warlike Eras of the Song and Yuan]. Haodu Publishing 2004.
Luttwak E. Strategy. The Belknap Press 1987.
Turnbull S. The Mongol Invasion of Japan. Osprey Publishing 2010.
▬ ATTRIBUTIONS ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Google Maps
Wikipedia (Basic facts)
baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%A5%8... (Battle of Xiangyang Map)
Made using Powerpoint 2013.

[@phuktard]

Why isn't the island of Formosa on any of the maps? Hainan is displayed, Kyushu is too. Is this omission a purpose fuelled statement?

[@StrategyStuff]

Nope, it's because my research sources didn't much mention Formosa in the history of the Mongol conquest. On the other hand, Jeju played a key role in the Mongol invasion of Korea (as a way for Japan to support the Korean resistance), Kyushu played a key role in the Mongol invasion of Japan, and the last chapters of the fleeing Song Court were basically conducted in and around the Qiongzhou Strait between the Leizhou Peninsula and Hainan.

[@phuktard]

@@StrategyStuff TY for your reply - I like the content you provide and I believe it's presented well. I just found it strange that a map that included mentioned islands should have the one that's in the news lately and I assumed this was an (anti)One-China statement. Please forgive my faux pas.

[@bluemountain4181]

Formosa wasn’t colonised by the Chinese until the 1600s, before that it was inhabited by Austronesian aborigines so I guess didn’t play a part in Chinese politics or war

[@Intranetusa]

@@phuktard Pro-Taiwan independence people would say Taiwan isn't a part of the PRC, but they wouldn't erase Taiwan from a historical map of China during the middle ages. Erasing history is something only the Communist Chinese would do and have done.

[@FK-se4hq]

@@Intranetusa If you simply think that "Pro-Taiwan independence" people would say "Taiwan isn't a part of the PRC", you have no idea who those lunatics are and what they believe..

[@narcosalpha9472]

I can't believe I've finally found an in-depth vid on grand strategy in east Asian history... The South Song, no less. One of the most fascinating periods out there. Expertly done. Keep up the good work! It's a shame your channel hasn't exploded yet... (PS your pronunciation of the Chinese names are spot-on, I take that you are a Chinese speaker?)

[@StrategyStuff]

Thanks for the comment! Yes, Mandarin is a third language of mine, having spent some time in Shenzhen.

[@narcosalpha9472]

@@StrategyStuff I see... I wonder how your videos can be popularized. I imagine that the Chinese would be much interested in such a take on their history.

[@StrategyStuff]

@@narcosalpha9472 You can help me share them ;). In all fairness, looking at trends in this section of youtube, I probably have to do more WWII videos and play with SEO to gain real traction, Chinese history or otherwise. Still, I'm pretty happy with the content niche that I'm in and I plan on sticking to a less random schedule in the future.

[@PotatoStickman200]

@@StrategyStuff I dont think world war 2 videos are necessary. The topics are fantastic. I think including pictures/art of the troops or slightly more detailed coloured maps would help significantly in attracting more viewers. I love the university lecture style you're doing now though I have to say. Really underrated channel

[@tuvshinerdenebulgan6450]

@@yumiryin8197 That's nothing compared to those fucktard chinese peasants killing each other and changing dynasties literally 22 times while mongols just affect 1 dynasty.

[@ElBandito]

Never in the history of pre-colonial era, would a nation think of attacking Baghdad and Vietnam at the same time as vassalazing Korea. :D

[@saretgnasoh7351]

Yeah That's mongol for you 😂

[@squamish4244]

What is often forgotten when discussing the Mongols' whirlwind conquest of central and western Asia and their 'unstoppable' horse archer armies is the slow, grinding back-and-forth conquest of southern China by armies that eventually bore little resemblance to the armies that the Mongols were famous for. And if the Song hadn't made a number of mistakes, they could well have held the Mongols at bay forever.

[@StrategyStuff]

I think the Song's 'mistakes' were more a feature of Song's political structure. Excessive emphasis on centralization, civilian dominance over military, and Chinese imperial factionalism made it extremely difficult for Song to implement/execute sensible strategies, especially long-term attritional ones.

[@squamish4244]

Well said! It's interesting to contemplate what might have been different if, for instance, Jia Sidao had retained control of grand strategy, but for the reasons you give, sensible decisions like that were unlikely for systemic reasons.

[@mxn1948]

politics killed the song. the military was deliberately kept weak. there was several points before the rise of the mongols that the song could have taken north china but didnt due to leadership and institutional issues. had this been emperor wu's court in power mongol might've had no chance.

[@alexanderchenf1]

Strategy Stuff Song was centralize in politics and military, but quiet laisser faire in civil economy. So you have a ridiculously rich economy with a ridiculously weak overall military and local defense - that’s like storing gold bricks at home without a gun.

[@meaningGPT]

The Song Emperor was a child and the court was divided amongst multiple factions, incl. Chancellor Jia Sidao and the Empress Regent.

[@pratikgade9389]

Marco Polo

[@TheXanian]

And you missed the first part of the Song-Mongol war (1235 - 1241). This campaign was actually intended for conquest, and not simply just for plundering. However, thanks to their brilliant general Meng Gong (1195 - 1246), the Song was able to resist this initial phase of Mongol invasion.

[@xxAnaconta]

Great work, far east history gets much less attention than it deserves. Also great pronunciation on the names and cities.

[@mrniceguy7168]

I love how nomads like the Mongols adopt the good things of people they’ve conquered. They were under no illusion that they can run a society like the Chinese could and understood they had a deficient navy. Even though they were conquerors, they were self aware and didn’t insist on doing things their way.

[@justinokraski3796]

the Romans were similar in their willingness to incorporate auxillary forces into their legions or to change military doctrine based on political and economic realities

[@TheAtmosfear7]

And yet, while they were very "open-minded" when it came to military strategy, it’s interesting that they were never able to cement lasting loyalty to their Empire among the people they conquered. Probably because of how brutal they ultimately were, they empire collapsed the second they lost power.

[@karlnord1429]

@@TheAtmosfear7 Machiavelli discusses the different types of occupation which may interest you. Colonization is what he recommends as the most stable strategy for incorporating territory, but it's very clear that the mongols stopped being mongols once they became city dwellers. Interestingly, the mongol ecology seems to drive their military dominance. Keep them outside their ecology for long and they simply cease to be.

[@heretohear1847]

Interestingly enough almost every time a nomad army conquered a settled civilization they would adopt the culture and political institutions and traditions of the lands they had conquered

[@mrniceguy7168]

@@TheAtmosfear7 If you were a Chinese elite who has lost his power due to some barbarian invader, you would not have any appreciation for their supposedly superior way of governance and fighting. That they couldn’t get the locals to be loyal was to be expected.

[@LucasDimoveo]

I love hearing the proper pronunciation of the south Chinese names. Keep it up good sir!

[@HxH2011DRA]

They truly are the exception

[@ericthegreat7805]

Lol

[@ninjasheep7492]

Fantastic video and surprisingly fantastic pronunciation

[@datsnek]

very good channel, keep it up!

[@iddomargalit-friedman3897]

Amazing video Well done!

[@paulwallis7586]

Good work! Very clearly explained a particularly complex range of issues in proper context and depth.

[@charlieng3347]

Such high quality video.

[@martynparkman8332]

Very informative, learnt stuff, thanks.

[@Simon-zw2hr]

Hey i love your video's gonna watch them al your a great guy!

[@TheXanian]

Li Tingzhi organized the only successful attempt to rescue the twin fortresses in 1272, by sending Zhang Shun and Zhang Gui brothers with foods and goods loaded on their paddle-wheel warships, together with 3,000 militias. One of the brothers had been severely injured in a battle against the Mongol navy and died on the way; the other successfully made it into the fortress, though he also died shortly after. However, by this time the tide had been turning in Mongol's favor, and this rescue didn't prove to be of much use.

[@speedzero7478]

Awesome video.

[@ssbphotography]

Very good pronunciation. Thank you.

[@realityisreal3928]

love it!

[@SuperMooshrooms]

Your going places kid, keep pumping out videos like this and you'll be able to live off the youtube bux in no time.

[@cyrilchui2811]

Another excellent piece of work

[@frostyalaska6371]

Another amazing video however if you want more views you gotta stretch these vids into separate 10min parts

[@endlessmind1793]

As a chinese it is still shocking to me that in the final battle, Yashan battle, nearly 100 thousand civilians chose to jump into the sea with the little king when they realized this is the last battle and it is impossible to save the country

[@StrategyStuff]

Well it’s probably 100k dead total rather than suicided as the Mongols were basically attacking a refugee fleet… but the idea of “martyrdom” really began in the Song Dynasty as the intellectual class began to have a say over the governments policy. Similar martyrdoms also during the Ming and some even after the Qing.

[@enduser8410]

Another fantastic video. I've read how the Song could've been the first industrialized nation had they not been destroyed, moving the center of world power from the Atlantic to East Asia. The massive scale of planning both sides had to contend with at the time is also amazing when compared to Europe. I hope in the future you could cover one of the struggles between China and Japan over the Korean peninsula? i.e.the Battle of Baekgang, Goguryeo and Silla-Wa wars (Gwanggaeto Stele), Four Commanderies, Toyotomi's invasions in the 16th century, the Meiji/Century of Humiliation era, modern day?

[@StrategyStuff]

I plan on bouncing around from region to region (and historical time period) when doing these videos, so eventually I’ll get to east Asia again. I think for China to really industrialise, Song society would have to further develop its scientific and financial structures to support more advanced and capital-intensive (rather than labour-intensive) forms of production. There’s no guarantee that such institutions would have developed (or developed in a way that would support industrialization instead of say imperial stability)

[@shanghainesetv3992]

South Sung Chinese Empire is less than England or Holland, but if Mongols didn't succeed in conquer South Sung. It would be a great civilization in East Asia like Japan. Actually the Jurchen Empire of North China had 80% of the population killed by Mongols and became quite poor. So in the 14th century a Northerner established Ming Dynasty, and this country is quite totalitarian. Very bad influence for later China.

[@xmanoo]

Strategy Stuff the thing is there weren't any technology competitians.competition is the mother of improvement.without mother，there won't be son and daughter..The main enemy of ancient china was always mongolic people whom was the strongest barbarian in the entire world，and technology and science improvement wouldn't change much.if china was not united and those strong barbarian don't exist，there may be a bigger chance that some kind of technology revolution would have happened.

[@yumiryin8197]

夏文星 very true,that's the reason I hate mongol and jurchen a lot

[@flyingbirdskingcloud2908]

@@shanghainesetv3992 You know nothing about Chinese history. Paper money, batch printing, compass and firearms were invented in the Song Dynasty. The people of the Song Dynasty were very rich. Also, the Ming Dynasty was founded by southerners in China. He was from Jiangsu Province, China.

[@jarrodyuki7081]

hey strategy, your mandarin is perfect are you chinese by any chance or a westerner who studied mandarin?

[@remembertotakeshowerspleas355]

He speaks Mandarin and I think he said he was from Hong Kong.

[@watermean1219]

Mongol empire's largest territorial possession was achieved upon Song's conquest. While Mongol expanded towards middle east, Europe, Korea, Vietnam and even towards india, Song empire was the last to fall.

[@neniAAinen]

To be fair, the United Mongol empire was no more by that time. The conquest of S. Song was achieved by the Yuan.

[@AvalancheZ250]

The Song were one of the first to be attacked and were the last to fall. And if it weren't for Song infighting, they may have held out indefinitely despite never even having the Great Wall (or its general location) under its control during its entire existence. A great "what could have been" story in Chinese history. Great potential wasted by infighting, and eventually they lost it all.

[@lolasdm6959]

@@AvalancheZ250 I highly doubt it, the Song initially held out because the Mongols had only one flank to attack from and it was highly defensible, as conflict continued, nations around the Song would surrender to the Mongols and allow passage. It was just a matter of time.

[@xuantaotang577]

Interesting perspective and excellent name pronunciation. Are you a native Chinese speaker by any chance?

[@lakevapour9267]

播主说他学的第三门语言就是汉语，去过深圳的外国人。

[@lolasdm6959]

@@lakevapour9267 他是香港人，说的汉语指的是普通话。

[@snowjordan6822]

I'm curious about your background. As others have mentioned, your pronunciation of Chinese names makes you seem like a native speaker, not to mention your in-depth knowledge of East Asia history.

[@StrategyStuff]

I'm from Hong Kong but I studied in the UK. This stuff is done mostly out of interest because they certainly don't teach Song history like this in school!

[@fernandong9576]

@@StrategyStuff in my world history class in high school, they skim through qin, han, and three kingdoms, talked a little bit about tang being the golden age, then briefly talked about the yuan dynasty and that it. never even mention anything else... p.s. I study in US btw

[@TheXanian]

And you didn't mention in detail about the siege in Diaoyu fortress either. Mongke's death was in part due to this siege, since it lasted from early spring to late summer and the Mongols still couldn't break through its walls, thanks to the well-designed defensive system of the fortress, and to the tenacity of the Song defenders. And there were various accounts about how Mongke died. The Mongol account mentioned that he died of dysentery, but the Chinese account mentioned that he had been injured by a projectile launched from a catapult in the Diaoyu fortress when he was trying to examine the landscape and planning his next attack.

[@lusciouslucius]

its strategy, not another channel that covers one battle with some background info

[@TheXanian]

@@lusciouslucius But I feel that such an important battle deserves to be mentioned in more detail. It's this battle that allowed the Song to linger on for another 20 years.

[@yumiryin8197]

There's a famous novel related to it,about a heroin Kungfu master killed the Mongke

[@TheXanian]

@@yumiryin8197 Jin Yong's novel is pure fiction, you shouldn't treat that as history. In real history, Mongke wasn't killed by Yang Guo at Xiangyang, but died at Diaoyu Cheng fortress in Hezhou near Chongqing, either because of dysentery, or injured by a projectile launched from a catapult and died soon after.

[@yumiryin8197]

TheXanian 你是中国的吧，我看了你的简介，我们想法很相似，中国就是被那些蒙古蛮子害了，恢复汉唐气象多好

[@feelsgoodman9751]

great video but the white background really hurts to look at

[@TheXanian]

Excellent video, but some of the dates are wrong. Song-Mongol alliance only came to fruition in 1233, and broke in 1235. Before 1233 the Song was quite suspicious about the Mongols, and the Mongols had also penetrated into Song territory to circumvent Jin defenses in 1231, causing many civilian deaths on the Song part. In 1233 the Song finally agreed to ally with the Mongols, after seeing that the Jin had been thoroughly defeated and could no longer serve as their northern barrier. In 1234 the two armies converged their attack on Caizhou, the last Jin city, and conquered it. Jin emperor committed suicide after seeing his city fell. And in 1235 emperor Lizong of Song made an unwise decision to reconquer the lost lands in the north, and thus ignited the Song-Mongol war, which would last until 1279. And I wouldn't only blame the Song for what they did. Even without this hasty northern expedition, the Mongols would eventually ignite the war with the Song, it was only a matter of time before they find another excuse to launch the attack. Their alliance wasn't that deep anyways. Hence the Song's move wasn't necessarily wrong, it was just unwise.

[@megakedar]

The problem with the Song-Mongol alliance was that it was the full retard culmination of hundreds of years of revanchist retardation. Don't forget that they had an almost ideal situation with the Liao (about as stable as premodern borders could have been) only to throw their own diplomacy in the garbage by allying with the Jin on the promise that they would turn over a few conquered commanderies to Song. That didn't happen, and the retards ended up losing half their fucking country. And then after that they were desperate to ally with whomever to get revenge on Jin, finally ending in the Song-Mongol alliance. They played stupid games and won a stupid prize. Good riddance to one of the most miserable periods in Chinese (and world) history.

[@TheXanian]

@@megakedar The Song-Jin alliance was stupid, that I largely agree with u. However, the Song-Mongol alliance was a different thing altogether. The Song had always been quite suspicious about the Mongols ever since the beginning of their rise to power. Chingghis Khan once tried to ally with the Song to attack the Jin, but the Song refused his offer and sent his envoys back. It was only until 1233 that they finally agreed to ally with the Mongols, seeing that the Jin had been sufficiently weakened and couldn't serve as a barrier state anymore. And watch your language. The Song period wasn't miserable at all, it was actually quite prosperous, with numerous innovations and developments.

[@megakedar]

@@TheXanian If that offends you, I'll just call it an epic failure. What else do you call a diplomatic strategy that achieved the opposite effect of its intent to reunify the country, resulting in catastrophic losses every time until it cost them everything? Their stupidity in destabilizing every potential buffer to their north is what ultimately created the power vacuums that enabled the mongols to gain as much power as they did. All their "innovations and developments" didn't save them from a conquest of their own making.

[@johnsmith-ir1ne]

@@megakedar yours is my favorite comment in this entire comment section 😁😂

[@baseacse]

even a native speaker like me can't pronounce sichuan as well as you can

[@ssa3101]

@Provocateur Are you high?

[@oldrabbit8290]

i think he's a Hongkonger

[@ElBandito]

Mongols following the death of Ögedei Khan had decades of game of thrones. Would make a great movie series.

[@hengchan4645]

There was already a TV series made by Netflix called "Marco Polo" which revolved around Kublai Khan's conquests but the series was cancelled

[@ElBandito]

@@hengchan4645 Yes, I have seen it. It was decent, but as you say unfortunately it got cancelled.

[@neniAAinen]

@@ElBandito it wasn't decent and has no relation to what happened there, at all. Real powerplay in Mongol court was infinitely beyond that misery of a serial.

[@ElBandito]

Song Dynasty: We have sixty million population. The Mongols: We are the exception.

[@angelabby2379]

the song population is made of happy civilians not army. almost all of mongols is a warrior lol.

[@ElBandito]

@@angelabby2379 Mongols as a unified tribe at 1234 when the Jin dynasty was conquered had at most 250,000 warriors if you count every single male around age 18, and they were spread across Central Asia as well as Northern China--of course, they were bolstered by conquered people. I am 100% certain that the Southern Song had many times the amount of soldiers at the time.

[@lolasdm6959]

@@ElBandito The Mongols conscripted hundreds of thousands of men from Northern China, while poorly equipped, were drilled in Mongol fashion and more diciplined than the Southern Song counterparts.

[@rayray6490]

There were no single, outstanding Song general that can make any game-changing impact at this time...unlike the beginning of the Southern Song when they had an an abundance of great military men like Han Shizhong, Yue Fei, etc.

[@johnrockwell5834]

They had great military men purged. No one was left.

[@rayray6490]

Kan Ding ...He died too early

[@johnrockwell5834]

@@rayray6490 The murder of Yue Fei is what sealed the fate of China to the Northern invaders. He made the Chinese military strong. But since the Song treated them with contempt and killed their best. Their sword was broken and the invader was able to slash their throats.

[@johnrockwell5834]

Yue Fei the best General was murdered at the crucial time when China needed them most. That's why the Song lost. They hated their military and broke their defenses by killing their best loyal men.

[@johnrockwell5834]

@@kanding3369 Even so. The murder of Yue Fei is a crime of the highest order at the time. They broke their own sword that would have protected them against invasion. Since they failed to protect this most competent and loyal man especially from that prime minister they all paid the price with their lives.

[@Michael_Brock]

Good vids ❤️ btw. Have been bingeing on your content. But where is the island of Taiwan? Or did the CPC make you vanish it? 😜

[@StrategyStuff]

Well the video's clogged up with enough info already without adding extra detail to it. I don't think I've ever seen Taiwan mentioned in the context of the Mongol conquest, which is rather strange and may be an overlook on my part.

[@TPerm-hj4sf]

The island of Taiwan was not formed at that time. The island was built by Japan 200 years later.

[@lolasdm6959]

Typical political brain rot, Taiwan was basically inhabited by native tribes besides a fishing village in Penghu.

[@hassanzakieyusoff6597]

All aboard

[@QuizmasterLaw]

I just wonder if the Union Generals who came up with the "split the rebel slave drivers by driving up and down the Mississippi" studied this war? Coz it looks a HELL lot like 1863 USA-CSA.

[@StrategyStuff]

Almost certainly never studied this war. The context for Union Generals was Jominis analysis of Napoleonic operational tactics.

[@QuizmasterLaw]

Beijing and Washington, revolutionary states, are in a race to liberate the world from oppression. Who do you think will win? Why?

[@sultanofcabbage]

Assassin's creed game set in this period would be AWESOME!

[@YAHGOA]

Damn your shit is good...

[@wric01]

Took Genghis Kahn 3 generations to do the job, no shame in losing by a child emperor.

[@FreebirdKitkat]

Today, Beijing does not belong to the Song Dynasty. Beijing is the capital of the Mongolian Yuan Dynasty.

[@user-oi3zi8rr9x]

你不是放屁么

[@johnvonshepard9373]

3:13 cry in aral sea.

[@Ryuko-T72]

I feel like song should have bided more time instead of igniting a war. Should have made plans for retreat paths into mountains terrain, dams to flood lowlands, stockpiles of food and weapons, and mountain bases for prolonged guerilla war. Or, simply flee to Java or Champa, Im sure Majapahit would've helped them after the mongols invaded. Easy for me to say all this tho, 750 years in the future

[@shinhongkyu6366]

The most powerful nation against the greatest nation.

[@dannytallmadge2161]

Average dick size of combatants 2.5 inches.

[@axelandersson6314]

My thoughts as a non Chinese person on your pronunciation is that I see a level of usefulness in your precise pronunciation and I find it quite interesting. At the same time, my "school of pronunciation" is that if one is speaking english, then one should generally anglicise the words as much as possible just as long as one remains easily understandable by a native speaker.

[@swad2315]

that is some effort to win the most powerful nation

[@SenorTucano]

8:40 the Chinese government being deceitful and duplicitous? Imagine that! 🤔

[@mantis2048]

I like you, but I gotta he honest. If you don’t get a better mic you’re not going to get much bigger

[@Huben57]

This is the severity of Qin Hui deceiving the court to kill Yue Fei, our greatest hero.

[@chriswestwood3289]

It's misleading. There were two completely different phases. Mongolian did not conquer China when it was Mongol empire. Until the Mongolia empire collapsed due to the death of last Mongolia empire. The Mongolia empire collapsed and four powerful leads established 4 new empires. One of them was Yuan dynasty which adapted Chinese system. Yuan itself was from Chinese acient book meaning the origin of new era. The Chinese started to accept Yuan since it used Chinese system. Until 9 years later the song was completely defeated the yuan become one China dynasty.

[@joerogue231]

Chris Westwood This channel is anti-Chinese. The Mongol are a joke they broke into 5 pieces after the Song killed Mongke Khan. Ariq Mongolia, Kublai Northern China, Chagathai Central Asia, Ilkhanate Persia-middle East and Golden Horse Russia. The Yuan, Jurchen, Khitan, etc... were Chineses. In fact the Mongol couldn't conquer China if they didn't become Chinese.

[@ZxZ239]

It was also that the Mongols were up against the weakest militarily dynasties of all of China. The core concept of Song was literally weaken the military so it won't coup against the government and they also made it military like 3 class citizens with no respect. Even toward the end when they were on the brink they still refused to change their culture. Combined this with Song being probably the wealthiest dynasty of China literally made Song the easy fat sheep to the slaughter table!!

[@joerogue231]

ZX The Southern Song after Yue Fei was killed are a joke. The Mongol are also a joke they fought China when China was 7 different warring and declining country ( Khitan Western Liao, Tai Dali, Han Southern Song, Jurchen Jin, Tangut Xi Xia, Korea Goryeo and Han Dai Viet ). Northern Song was great too.

[@lolasdm6959]

@@joerogue231 No

[@joerogue231]

@@lolasdm6959 Yes. Southern Song was a joke after Yue Fei died. The Mongol conquest of China are extremely overrated. China was 7 different nations controlled by 7 different ethnic group that hated each other or were ready to turn on each other at any moments. Tangut were Tibetan origin, Southern Han were Han origin, Jin were Jurchen origin, Dali was Thai origin, Goryeo was Korean origin, Western Liao were Khitan and Han Dai Viet. Easy to conquer those squabbling empires.

[@lolasdm6959]

@@joerogue231 Southern Song was far from a joke after Yue Fei, it was still among the strongest nations of the world. The fervent idolization of one man is irrational, history doesn't work that way. Yue Fei would have led to a civil war and Song would have collapsed sooner.

[@joerogue231]

@@lolasdm6959 You have no understanding of history. Yue Fei would have reconquered all of the former Northern Song territory in the North from the Jurchen Jin and would have even defeated the Jurchen Jin in their entirety. Yue Fei wasn't allowed to do that because of the Southern Song emperor who preferred being a tributary to the Jurchen. If you think Yue Fei would have created a civil war because of his reconquest then you clearly have no understanding of history.

[@alexanderchenf1]

Chinese here. Mongolian conquest of China was extremely brutal. But, Mongolian rule of China was extraordinarily lenient. Later ZHU Yuanzhang, the Han leader that toppled the Mongolian rule actually complained that Mongolian rule was way too laisser-faire, which was the reason of its demise. So Zhu adopted an extremely centralized totalitarian system, and began Ming Dynasty which was famed for its secret police (东厂）and bad governance (有明无善治). Many Han Chinese in Ming Dynasty actually missed Mongolian rule. Historically, those who oppressed Chinese the most were Chinese themselves, ever since the founding of Qin Dynasty. This is because the more centralized and bureaucratic a civilization is, the more oppressive it becomes - the same holds true to Byzantine, Persian empires, Russia, and the current European Union. That’s why I and millions of Chinese, Russian, and Iranians are right now here in America and other Common Law countries, instead of staying in our old centralized tyrannies rules by “our own people”. There is certain nobleness of barbarians - the will to ride and breath free, and the bravery to fight the enemy in open battle, instead of plotting behind enemy back at court. In this sense, the sea conquerers Anglo-Saxons have common ground with the grass conquerers Mongolians (although now the real Englishmen are in America).

[@elroyhi3963]

what are u even talking about lmao

[@elroyhi3963]

wrong❤️

[@user-wc8pp1fm9d]

胡说八道放狗屁

[@jabs615]

I am a mongol and i am not really a fanboy of my ancestors, they sure knew how to conquer everything, but the eventual rot of their leadership downplays their greatness. Anyway, i have read and watched some Russian historians say that under the Mongols rule they had the smallest amount of tax ever, that's like 10% of your income/produced stuff once every 7 years and under their rule their petty princes finally stopped fighting each other, which gave them the opportunity to unite and rise up. Also, I read from some sources that some Mongolian leaders in Islamic countries went out of their way to build massive projects for the well being of their people. Sadly, after they just about conquered everything, they started killing each other, 400 years of civil wars... damn... probably that fate awaits just about every would be conqueror in the future.

[@lolasdm6959]

Imagine being a Chinese and ends up supporting a white surprimacist narrative. The Mongol rule was extremely bad compared to the Ming, where the wouthern Han were blocked from most routes of promotion, the Mongols were more interested in civil wars than governing the country themselves. Several proposal by Mongol nobility to commit genocide and graze the barren grasslands left behind. Moreover there was extreme arbtratary implementation of the law, where new taxes can be invented on the spot. You are truely delusional if you think a dynasty overthrown by popular rebellion was missed by the next generations.

[@mrniceguy7168]

The Mongols were brilliant

[@pieterjan29]

So… a wall didnt help

[@neniAAinen]

There was no continuous wall here for the Southern Song.

[@pcoffeeshop7018]

像教科书

[@obj6989]

No. That quote was from Japanese culture warriors. It was a quote to legitimize their invasion of China in WWII, because they claimed to be the true heir of Chinese culture.

[@sleepingboyxx]

I'm surprised to think you are Chinese

[@LewisPulsipher]

The Chinese rarely appear to be really good at defending their country.

[@user-xd3jm3wu6m]

When you just watch 1 video and make conclusions about a 3000 year old nation

[@MCorpReview]

Mongols rock! Too bad they couldn’t conquer japan 🇯🇵 but sea is different from rivers

[@darthbricksempire3606]

Athaporn MCorp Review Kamikashi, is a difficult opponent.

[@lolasdm6959]

The mongols were too hastly and didn't reenforce their ships against tsunamis, twice, despite being adviced against it by shipwrights.

[@orz.4805]

崖山之后无中国明朝之后无华夏。虽然这句话不见得正确，但我们需要反省。

[@lolasdm6959]

这话说出来的人脑子就不够用。

[@Ottovonostbahnhof]

“A命题不一定正确，但我们要反省A命题”，你是谁们啊又蠢又坏？

[@TPerm-hj4sf]

Every Chinese know MongKe Han was killed by a rock thrown by KongFu master YangGuo. It was so true. This channel is fake news.

[@munkhp232]

Gongfu is a kind of gymnastics it is not a martial art

[@hunyuekhan6422]

fall asleep after 12mins

[@christmasborn107]

Nomadic genes from Northern Nomads could have caused infrequently raiding behaviour among Chinese, Japanese and Koreans as their inheritances are not suited for agriculture. It is my believe that such genes will become increasingly irrelevant in future modern civilisations.

[@mendel7575]

There is something odd about pronouncing words in their own language, while speaking another language. If your going to speak English then why not speak English. I mean, if we start pronouncing foreign words in the English language using their own distinct pronunciation, it would destroy the language. Rip it apart in every direction. Unless you are Han, then this makes sense.

[@dannytallmadge2161]

Mendel it’s pathetic but Chinese psyche is deeply wounded. Imagine being a Chinese dude in the west- short likely nerdy completely invisible to females. You gotta flex somewhere I guess.

[@hansmuller5722]

The Mongol conquested the great China, while the Mongol was defeated by the small Vietnam. Hahaha!

[@wric01]

Did win a few battles, but can't claim victory as vietnam raised the white flag to become a servant of yuan dynasty eventually.

[@hansmuller5722]

The Mongol were defeated by Vietnam not once but 3 times. So the Mongol gave up invasion. The Mongol needed an invasion, then conquered China and ruled China 100 years long. China must be ashamed!

[@axelNodvon2047]

@@hansmuller5722 Not really, most mongolian cultural influences are gone. And 90 years isn’t much compared to the thousands of years of chinese history. Are mongols ashamed of the various times that they were vassals of chinese emperors?

[@hansmuller5722]

@@axelNodvon2047 The manpower of China is at least 20 times more than of the Mongol. Therefore the fact that Mongol was the vassal of China is not surprised. But the fact that the big China was colonized by the small Mongol is a big shame of China!

[@axelNodvon2047]

@@hansmuller5722 You realize everything is not just down to manpower, the Song at that point was weakened by decades of war with other nomadic people like the Jurchens. And the Mongols incorporated huge numbers of northern chinese soldiers into their army