The Absurdity of a JV5

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#turndownforwalt #tdfw #SuperSmashBrosMelee #SuperSmashMelee #SSBM

[@turndownforwalt]

Install Raid for Free ✅ IOS/ANDROID/PC: t2m.io/turndownforwalt and get a special starter pack with 500k Silver, Energy and Chicken + Epic Juliana after reaching level 15⚡ Available only via the link and for new players. See you on the battlefield!

[@allenthecavalier1514]

No 🙂

[@muddaboolshit6963]

I AINT CLICKIN BUT GET THAT RAID MONEY WALT

[@AziDoesQuestionableThings]

Walt, no. but get that bag king

[@JMPDev]

‘Paid actor’ was hilarious XD

[@NotD3NTRR]

We lost another one

[@zog6940]

When I had just discovered the scene existed in 2013, and I couldn't even wavedash yet, I decided to go to a Guardian Games tournament in Portland. When I first got there, I sat down at a setup with my friend and played some friendlies. Then who else but Silent Wolf walks up (in 2013, mind you) and sits down with us. He immediately JV5d me with his Sheik that he never played. He just got a huge grin, looked over at me and said "That's only the second time I've ever done that". I just replied with "... You're welcome?" I still go into his stream every few years to remind him. What a way to be introduced to the scene.

[@geo2837]

thats a fucking awesome story lol

[@nowonprzn7442]

The best part of this story is you’re still apart of the scene till this day.

[@DarkXream]

I'd be pissed 😭

[@turndownforwalt]

This actually rules LOL

[@ChaosPhoenix11]

LOL that sounds like Otto alright. I’m a WA local that has played a good few friendlies against him, and he does seem like he would be awkwardly hyped about that. Genuinely great dude tho.

[@TheBlackPheonix14]

I’ve gotten multiple JV5s on slippi: Every single time my opponent quits out at the start when they see I’m playing a mid tier.

[@ItsMeChair1]

So this is what it feels like to play Kirby…

[@watersheep5535]

​@@ItsMeChair1Kirby is not mid tier 💀

[@ItsMeChair1]

@@watersheep5535Let’s just call them inviable characters and call it a day…

[@trxgreder]

bone pfp pog

[@sebdot_]

The JV5 is really mythical. We all remember KirbyKaze's NEAR JV5 even though he didn't get it in the end, that's why they're legendary.

[@nickrulez809765]

Ppmd nearly jv5ed Hax once

[@kestrelynn]

whats the highest level a jv5 has occured at? judging by the average rank of both players at the time (commenting before watching btw in case this vids about that)

[@brianb2308]

@@kestrelynn In friendlies years ago on stream, Leffen jv5'd KJH (given that lasers don't count). In tournament I have no idea. There's a YT channel called Mr. Pickle that would sometimes do cool compilations of things and that's how I've learned about most of what I know. He's inactive now though

[@nickrulez809765]

@@kestrelynn Cody JV5'd 2saint once clips.twitch.tv/DeadBadAsparagusShadyLulu-iQA8TcJbl93qJUzz

[@jaysimages4199]

Yup, even Armada said that PPMD vs Hax was prob the biggest destruction of a top player in tourney cos it was so close to a Jv5 (mind this was like 2016 or sometime around there when he said this) @@nickrulez809765

[@darmani_ssb]

no way Walt explained a basketball analogy while playing an Amsa clip, bro legit pulled a Subway Surfers TikTok split screen😭

[@jacobmorgan7553]

His ass is not getting responsored 🤣

[@Eichro]

lol you can tell he hates every second of it and he's trying to do the bit for real but without any intention to hide that

[@IanZWhite00]

I dunno, if you’re gonna do it, you should just do it. There’s no acting like you’re above it if you’re gonna take the money anyway. I appreciate the honesty in some respect, but half of it is mixed in with now inherently dishonest ad copy about how cool and worth your time it is so it kind of cancels out. Just not a super professional look, in my humble opinion

[@derkevevin]

To be fair, the way he did it kept me watching instead of skipping over it entirely 😂

[@shady8045]

That game was made by Israel, aka the fake genocidal state, so I can’t blame him.

[@Pslamist]

​@@IanZWhite00- Nah, we liked it, and it was perfectly executed. Leave it to Walt to push the ad meta!

[@sebashtion4917]

4:37 for all you legends watching

[@milesfernando]

king 🙏🙏

[@azophi]

I’ll stick with the vid cuz interesting but thx

[@cheef825]

​@@azophibro loves raid shadow legends 💀

[@milesfernando]

@@azophi it's literally just a skip for the raid shadow legends ad

[@victorjohnson5646]

bro hearted it💀

[@TheBiggestScammerEver]

theres no way raid approved the way you delivered this ad 💀💀

[@xchronox0]

While their game is absolute dog doodoo, and incredibly predatory and absolutely unfair with it's monetization. Their PR team when it comes to sponsors are absolute geniuses. They actually intentionally let people deliver their ads poorly (often in a joking manner). There's been entire sponsored streams for R:SL where the bit is that the person is bored and/or literally on autobattle off camera. And sometimes these sponsored content creators say like "Yeah they knew I was going to do this ahead of time and approved the bit" And I believe the reason is that doing negative sponsor reads for comedic purposes gets us to stop skipping the sponsors. We want to watch them because we want to laugh at the sponsored person make fun of the game. But watching the sponsor gets us to talk about the game. And talking about the game is free advertisement.

[@retronymph]

you left this comment so as far as they're concerned it worked. Marketing is a weird thing.

[@Jabrahamos711]

I’m honestly shocked that Tilde vs Lucy was the JV4 example from Ultimate, and not Fatality vs Goblin, an actual example of a top level player JV4ing another top player (and then, hilariously, losing the set)

[@wuhhlfarg353]

Wanted to say that as well Both players were top 50 at that time i think and up to this day its the highest ranked ultimate jv4

[@MeesterTweester]

@@wuhhlfarg353It is

[@johnleecooper8520]

something worth mentioning is that in melee sometimes you win neutral *by* getting hit. unless ur deliberately going for a jv5 most players are going to use cc to win neutral

[@vegaplus420]

Name a spot ceterus paribus, where you want to get hit to win neutral. I really don’t think ur statement is true because if u give ur opponent an opening then there’s a dhhnsce they would Usse something you can’t countrer

[@Dabestbro.]

​​@@vegaplus420often times if you're low% you can crouch cancel to not get launched by a combo starter that would otherwise take you off the ground, you're often plus from there

[@trashman1791]

​@@vegaplus420 just watch any sheik or Samus match and you'll see it a lot

[@CTomCooper]

@@vegaplus420In a match between None and M2K I believe, Falcon was able to get past a defensive wall of attacks by Sheik by running towards and DI’ing down when taking a hit to get a grab.

[@marzipancutter8144]

​@@vegaplus420 now I really have to ask, if all you want is an example of getting hit to win neutral, what is the purpose of using a specific latin term (It's ceteris paribus with an i btw) in this situation other than signaling that you know it? Also how does it even apply, what conditions are you controlling compared to what situation? There was none mentioned prior in this context that you could want a comparison to. Technical terms are tools that are supposed to make communication more efficient by condensing complex concepts into few words. They can be of great use when applied in the appropriate situation. This is not that.

[@bobbbyjohnson]

I'll never forget. The Monday after Plup's Genesis win, I was attending a CFL local with my friend who was the best player from our small region. We got there SUPER early, and were warming up with only four other dudes in the venue who were playing doubles. I remember Plup walking in, and clearly not wanting to play on a four man rotation or doubles, he comes over to our setup and plugs in. As he rotated through characters and beat us down, I thought it would be an amazing idea to try and fight his Fox with my own as I wanted experience in a top level fox ditto. Well. This resulted in me getting UTTERLY JV5d. To the point that my friend was shouting that I needed to laser or something. To this day, I'm happy i was laughing nonstop at it with Plup and that I'll never do a Fox ditto again.

[@asdfqwerzzz2]

lmao this is not the first time I've seen a back handed Raid Shadow Legends ad bit

[@MinnowTF]

Closest thing I’ve seen is MockRock’s “It’s me… I’m KZbinr…” but this was wild

[@bot_matt]

I’ve been playing for 10 years now and I’ve only recently gotten my first JV5. It was in a ranked set against a Ganon and I popped off so hard. Probably will never experience that again so I’m glad I did it even if it took a decade :)

[@SimmonsNC]

poor ganon 😞

[@DrewZGmusic]

YO MY FIRST JV WAS AGAINST A GANON TOO Which actually kinda shows I’m dogshit considering I’d played Sheik vs Bowser on FD like 3 times and never got a JV lmao

[@jordanthejq12]

And this is in the one game where Ganon is an actual character! Why y'all gotta do him like that?

[@Kajssbm]

yo botmatt ive seen you on tiktok

[@AllUpOns]

@@DrewZGmusic Hey look at it this way. Not even M2k could do it.

[@cbd075]

12:27 love seeing Melee people using more sports analogies, there’s so many things these communities have in common and I’m so happy that they’re being used in Melee discussions

[@Kieran6spdm]

As a CSGO Loading screen used to say, “Sometimes you opponent is just having a really good day.”

[@sonictrain1]

Bro all these years and no idea what JV meant, thank you for explaining it to me

[@yabski_]

mew2king JV5s used to be a dime a dozen LMAO

[@ThePi314Man]

M2K is petty much the one player that always tries to play perfectly and actually can. There's clips of him doing it going back to the beginning of his career, and he's even said that he's racked up hundreds of JV5s in his career. Too bad he quit.

[@SonicMaster519]

That’s exactly why I’ve called these “Mew2King Four Stocks” instead of “JV5”.

[@AllUpOns]

That's the M2k.

[@forgive.them.]

He got me last year, lol. It was rough.

[@cjkmelee]

Iceman once JV5ed my homie on stream at the Tuk house. For the next two years that's what my friend was known for lmao

[@ChaosPhoenix11]

Yoooo how do I not remember that??? What’s your homies tag? I miss Tuk house, I went every week for over a year and I have so many stories lol, even met HBox there right before a major (DPG or smth) Also Iceman never got me on a JV5 but he has 3 stocked me more times than I could possibly count

[@firemblem01]

Game 2 of PPMD vs Hax at MLG Anaheim. The most insane JV5 that almost was...

[@Actode]

This video has taught me that my issue is not, not winning neutral often enough but rather not taking my advantage state/punish game to the next level. Another entertaining and educational video, keep up the great work dude!

[@dataman6310]

17:15 Closest I remember is PPMD vs Hax Game 2 at MLG Anaheim 2014, 3 straight 0-to-deaths and Hax only dealt about 20%. It's even crazier given that both players were Top 10 around that time

[@kaiserfromda604]

Surprised he didn't use this clip, he beat Hax in like a minute.

[@ThePi314Man]

Thank you, I was about to mention this. Easily the greatest almost perfect game ever. Hax was ranked 6th in the world right under the five gods at the time. And ppmd demonstrated why they were called the gods.

[@Airfire21]

Why you gotta do Yingling like that 💀

[@typhlosion7872]

M2K against David the Bowser Guy almost had it

[@IncidentalSSBM]

was not a jv5

[@typhlosion7872]

@@IncidentalSSBM forgot to put the almost in there because I was cooking, so thanks for unintentionally reminding me

[@IncidentalSSBM]

@@typhlosion7872 welcome

[@Eliott-K]

We're nearing the TDFW x Jon Bois style singularity and I am absolutely loving it

[@jrodd13]

Even against a player FAR worse than you, a JV5 is still really damn hard. Not getting hit even once is near impossible

[@AmalgamJiena]

So, fun fact. Ultimate has the most subtle tell of a JV game. The . The dot on your percentage moves upwards slightly the first time you take damage, and it never changes again after that

[@user-kh3jj4rx2v]

I've been subbed and watched walt for i don't even know how long at this point, so I just want to make this clear this is 100% a compliment. I love how your editing has improved and it's clear you're taking influence from other melee content creators, who were almost certainly inspired by your content and its just this lovely little oroborus of nerds. also imma cop a patreon so you don't get raided again. dunno why I didn't before

[@TheRealMew2king]

might have done thousands or at least 100s, in some matchups you can just death touch them 4 times if they arent top pro (marth ditto mostly, marth fox sometimes)

[@Yeliad]

This might be my favorite video on this channel, super well done as always! Walt is the GOAT with Smash content

[@OwOKrieger]

The Jv5 is so bad ass. Ran the table on them! Thanks Walt. :)

[@infinitesky1495]

This was so well made, great job on production!

[@Eiji475]

I have never gotten a JV5 before but I did get a 4 stock comeback in round 2 of a decent size tournament once. I have it recorded I'll always remember it.

[@mitch.e2960]

Everybody talks about JV but everyone forgets about The Freshman

[@matthewmartell3148]

Unironically do think that Cody or Zain could JV5 a top player. Their punish games are so good, even with modern defensive play being as crazy as it is. IDK if it was a JV5, but Cody hit 1 opening per kill in a tournament set before (last year I think?).

[@gortniteasdfafds]

Cody jv5d 2saint online a while ago

[@tilt9808]

the CC meta also makes this harder, top players today are intentionally getting hit, also the easiest moves to hit usually don't lead to an opening, landing a marth fair is way easier than getting a grab but most of the time it isn't gonna combo

[@zachsteiner]

This is an AWESOME video idea. Always hoped someone would make something like this. Always coming in hot with the vids Walt.

[@dininelbourne]

Thank you for explaining the JV part. I never knew what it meant, and never bothered to look it up.

[@winniebobinnie34]

I started playing melee in the fall of 2014, and Apex 2015 was in my first dozen tournaments. I had to play Tubes in my second round of winners. He absolutely demolished me. Fast forward a couple of years and I see this video titled "PPMD vs Tubes JV5" or something like that. I think "Tubes... Is that the guy who whooped my ass at Apex?" Sure enough, it was. That was when I realized how large the scale of the game was. It would take me years before I could even take a game off Tubes, and even then I would still be nothing in the eyes of the "Gods"

[@DaRealPielover1987]

I really liked that ad read transition!

[@AxelBurned]

I remember playing friendlies with a veteran of the PM scene in Arizona, I had picked Ike, and he had picked his main DDD. We were just sort of messing around, but at the 2 stock point we both realized that he was on his way to JV5ing me. Those last two stocks were ruthless, throwing me offstage and stuffing every recovery option. Final stock, I'm off-stage, he goes for one last back air to finish me off...... and I hit counter. Probably the best input I ever made. GGs, Heysuess.

[@dragonstar912]

Walt, Saus, and Melee Moments are the big three of editing skills on primarily melee focused channels.

[@vroom874]

I'm pretty sure there is one case of a top-level set that came closer to a JV 5 with PPMD vs. Hax at MLG Anaheim 2014

[@Frank7489]

The first time I heard of JV was PPMD vs Hax with Hbox and Wife commentating. When the opportunity for a 4 stock is lost Hbox brings up JV then after some more percent is landed Hbox says, freshman 40. Because of that 2nd part, from then until watching this video, I thought JV meant Junior Varsity 🤦‍♂️

[@danielaiello8929]

Great video, Walt!

[@jpVari]

This is the first term (jv) in smash where I've actually liked where it came from lol. That's great.

[@jactotum]

phenomenal video :) the way you're able to introduce and explain concepts and weave them back into your narrative is awesome. you and your team do a fantastic job ♥how did you calculate the Odds of Consecutive Neutral Wins table? permutation of the win rate?

[@BlairPlaysGames]

Another fucking BANGER by Walt. Who would've guessed.

[@sampletext7925]

I got my first jv5 in tourney back before wobbling was banned, and I unfortunately wobbled the last stock. I was just convinced that the proper way to play IC's in that meta included wobbling, even if you felt confident about getting a win without it. The dude was a homie, and he was totally understanding about the "tryhard" shit, but i wish I had earned it without using a technique I already believed to be ban-worthy.

[@notanactualhuman522]

I have missed your videos, glad to have you back

[@evghb]

What an obnoxious thing to be immortalized for lol i can't even begin to understand JV's logic

[@purrfext]

Melee is sick. Great video

[@bryanmehelic5918]

Great video!

[@NinjaLobsterStudios]

Wasn't Melee but I once got a JV5 against a friend while streaming super smash flash 2. That match in particular was exactly what is described here: I had a character with a really strong punish game, on a tiny stage, and I just won neutral like 6-7 times in a row. I've played hundreds of games against him and never got close to a JV5 ever again

[@dragonstar912]

Having been out of the competitive loop for years now, is Polygon Zone legal, and is that the stage you're talking about?

[@NinjaLobsterStudios]

@@dragonstar912 been out of the loop for a long time too lol idk But the stage in my case was WarioWare, and I was playing DK lol

[@dragonstar912]

@@NinjaLobsterStudios SSF2 DK weirdly makes sense. That punish game is wild for sure.

[@KiskaeGG]

Videos like these always remind me why I love melee.

[@MrCyanGaming]

JV5 vs fox is wild

[@mortimerwake2974]

I got a JV5 once in PM vs a DK main on Dreamland, though the 4th stock was an intentional SD either to be a spoilsport or because his soul was crushed (maybe both). I love playing against big characters because they are such punching bags.

[@mechad00dle]

Great vid!

[@Kami10]

Finally, a new Walt video to enjoy

[@HughGRection]

Sick vid walt, never forget the 4-stock against zah

[@eu4um]

That PPMD popoff was so pure

[@btf_flotsam478]

It's also worth noting that, with both crouch-cancelling and downwards ASDI, getting hit can be somewhat advantageous and/or meaningless. Lasers are one example, but so is crouch-cancelling/ASDI-ing a hit and punishing the end lag (see none vs M2K) or getting hit by an opponent's recovery move while edge-guarding them.

[@gesugaoevilface7876]

Ive only ever gotten a single jv4 in elite smash playing Zelda vs Cpt.Falcon. I got the sweet spot on every single bair/fair and followed up with perfect firesball each time. Probably my proudest moment in gaming.

[@rookiejake]

I really want to see a video that goes on more about the slippi unranked winrates. That data is super sick to finally see after all these years and wondering what lower level melee winrates look like.

[@Penguno45]

I love the video and your editing for it! Whats the song playing at 1:20 ?

[@derkevevin]

12:52 well the hoop doesn't have a soul that gets crushed into tiny little pieces 😂

[@fastenysb]

such a good narration

[@BadMann3rs]

Well done Walt 👏🏽

[@vwtdi1579]

P+ JVs happening a little more often because of the follow ups off grabs that exist. Its such a strong connection that it brings more of them.

[@Chris_Staton]

i watch all your videos but this one was extra sick

[@BinkysCorner]

wait Leffen's Jab reset, run through turn grab so he could back throw off ledge was SO cool. Like WHAT. Talk about taking advantage of an opportunity. That is so so sick. The whole video was great, but just wanted to highlight that at 7:07

[@baileygamble3530]

"yes this clip again" right as I'm looking at Axe pop off was kinda surreal

[@TitusMelee]

great job walt

[@rashodmasters4299]

Ah i always wondered why it was called JV5 if there were only 4 stocks. Awesome video dude

[@superdubdub]

Back in the day I jv5ed my homie in falcon dittos, and while we were semi-goofing around he was tight.

[@adambrown1188]

i witnessed more than one of these in person in tournament at the same tournament which was zero challenge 3 featuring M2k, Pc chris, Ken, Bombsoldier and others. M2K 4 stocked his entire pool and there was at least TWO JV 5 stocks.

[@grashoprsmith]

these videos keep getting better and better

[@NekoLynx]

kudos for being real during the ad read

[@Layazeroda]

My favorite thing about perfect games in Smash is the crowd chants: "4-STOCK! 4-STOCK! 4-STOCK! Awww...... JV! JV! JV!"

[@N7Sovik]

I think I’ve only witnessed one JV5 ever in person and only done one myself in the 10 years I’ve played. It’s really really fucking hard

[@lucastesting9612]

Walt never misses. Love the editing on this one.

[@billwoods7578]

I never knew the lore of why it was called a jv. Always thought it had something to do with junior varsity lol

[@plindquist84]

6:09 "PUNISHING: When a character is PUNISHING, they have earned an opening and continue PUNISHING until the character they are PUNISHING escapes the PUNISH." And they wonder why Smash wasn't taken seriously...

[@ziggensgames]

So i just had one of these on slippi unranked. My girlfriend happened to see it and was like wow have you ever done that before? I thought I remembered one time that i did, that i saved in my slippi files. Turns out, i did it to the SAME GUY online 6 months back. What are the odds?

[@juanlanderos9066]

Great video

[@thegeeeeeeeeee]

I was almost jv5’d at the beginning of a large tournament. They put me on stream vs a top player on round 1 and I hadn’t been playing melee for months. I’m so glad I landed a hit lol 😅

[@adamdrinkwater2850]

"The Brawl extended universe" I'm going to cry please don't associate me with that game

[@pinheadssb5286]

I played against PP in sub battles once, I waited over an hour only to get 4 stocked (maybe JV5? IDR) in less the a minute. No shame in saying I cried lmfao. Went from “yeah I’m gonna learn something” to “what the fuck just happened to me?” The 5 gods are absolutely nuts

[@bryce_in_bloom3592]

Literally the genesis of my tag. 877-Smash-Now Walt!

[@samsr2887]

one of your best videos

[@gamehero4211]

Anyone have the link to the full music at 7:41? I know its the secret level from sunshine combined to sound like another song lol just not sure where to look

[@nicholasfisher5708]

JV5 the black flash of Melee

[@Me19893]

I desperately want that version of Spanish Flea. Where can I find it?

[@thedarkyoshi1337]

Here's a question, if you are a character with armor, ie Yoshi, and the opponent damages you, but it isn't a neutral break since you have armor and you take all his stocks with the only hit being the one that didn't neutral break you, is it still a jv?

[@slumlordgg9754]

I like this video Walt, Good job Walt. Congrats Walt

[@fonzworthbentley7455]

I was a noob maining Mr. Game and Watch when I went up against AbsentPage in the first round of my first tournament. I only landed one hit.

[@Wither1224]

I have never gotten a JV5 in Melee, but I have gotten 3 or 4 JV4s in Ult. It's something about that extra stock that can just throw off your rhythm or make you get in your head (or I'm just bad at Melee 😭)

[@kered13]

"Brawl Extended Universe" rofl!

[@Hero-109]

Get that bag walt

[@Eichro]

I had the opportunity to play against Kort in 64 once. A JV5 isn't so absurd after all. (I think I might have gotten one or two hits in the entire match... wouldn't be surprised if I didn't though)

[@oscarguzman3017]

This is the first time I've heard the lore of why jv's always used the number higher than the amount of stocks that you had 😅