the most hated in k-pop: amber liu

[@angelakiprevski7352]

I feel like people assumed that Amber is progressive just because of 1. her appearance 2. her being American 3. the perception that she's a lesbian which is stupid because queer people can be conservative, people of minorities can be insensitive or racist towards black people (and other races/ethnicities) and Americans be bigoted. Amber is one of the many, many reasons that companies should give idols "culture studies" on delicate subjects or train them to keep their mouths shut.

[@boobysr]

nooo i think they should say what they think because i don't want to support someone who's secretly racist

[@LovelyKissess]

@@boobysr Y'all be thinking everyone and everything is racist lol 🤣

[@HPFan4Life81]

She isn't gay dimm witt, she's straight stop assuming something you don't know about

[@soulsearcher7077]

@@HPFan4Life81 they said “the perception”, wise one. they’re saying this is how a lot of people view her. take some reading comprehension l classes please

[@LovelyKissess]

@Disappointment Too bad I'm not sensitive and attention seeking so I think everything said and done is racist. Now, that's weird

[@sophietessier8998]

that why i respect tiffany from snsd , she's the most american girl ever, yet despite adapting perfectly to korean norms and follow it, she never lost her view and is pro lgbt, talk back against rasicm. girl never sell out. Even in her recent interview she talk back and is proactive. that how you do , learn about all the culture and be professional and respectfull

[@fatimahanwaar306]

not to mention Tiffany is the most protective of other members of Girls' Generation such as when 2 Super Junior members made toxic comments about Jessica Jung she was quick to defend her

[@milkflavored]

And while ppl def hide their racism, Tiffany had black musicians and singers on her US tour and the interactions always appeared friendly and genuine. She's not my bias but I always liked that she's quick to call something out if she dislikes it

[@fatimahanwaar306]

@@milkflavored true

[@fatimahanwaar306]

@ Angelove me too!

[@camieatspandas]

@@milkflavored I AGREE. i think GG is okay but i have always respected tiffany . i dislike how idols will just post a BLM post as a save all to prove they not racist, just seems so performative. i prefer action like as you said, she hired & paid other black artists/dancers to perform with her. That’s more meaningful

[@jeness]

“It’s not forcing western ideals among kpop idols when we expect them to accommodate the people they want to make money from” THIS IS WHAT I LITERALLY HAVE BEEN PRACTICALLY SCREAMING TO KPOP STANS WHO BRUSH OFF EVERY SCANDAL. Kpop companies scramble after every scandal that affects the Japanese or Chinese market and always have an apology out within 24 hours. We have rarely seen a repeat of the Tiffany or Tzuyu scandal but companies are still not apologizing for their racist idols or appropriation issues because “they don’t know”?!? That’s ludicrous

[@sourpatchghoul]

EXACTLY. And that's why sm actually made Giselle apologise for the use of the n word, because they desperately want aespa to profit in the west. Whereas sm never truly cared about red velvet dominating in the west, so Wendy was never made to apologise

[@jeness]

@@sourpatchghoul ooooo that’s a very good point. I never noticed that. It makes a lot of sense how we got an apology so fast but to this day they ignore the Wendy situation

[@LovelyKissess]

Oh God

[@Ososkkisksksmssmsmssmssms]

Bro K-pop stans when they try to brush off their faves being racist… I hate them

[@debishvebishwish4839]

I hate that because it was not Tzuyu's fault at all. The segment was showcasing TWICE's foreigner line so each member is give the flag of their country. Japan flag for MiSaMo and Taiwan flag for Tzuyu. THAT'S ALL. There's nothing deep about it. But political extremist took this as an attack and thus China totally ban Tzuyu and Twice. She was just 16 years old at that time.

[@Non_ducor_duco]

The "american" kpop idol is such an interesting phenomenon to me. On one side it's a really good opportunity to gain western fans especially now that kpop seems to be obsessed with Billboard. Yet this desensitizes fans towards the said idols and often times they end up being really rude,sexualize or invasive because you know they are that "dude from kpop that's just like them". On the other it's a ticking bomb in their careers especially if they don't have a SEA foundation. Being raised in America and knowing English doesn't make you immune to ignorance and it doesn't make you an expert in sociology,culture and history. So in the process of being the most relatable to your western fans you just end up losing them.

[@lia_anh]

There’s a fine line between being ‘relatable’ to your western market (doing goofy stuff, talking about crude stuff or say a swear word here and there) and actually being relatable and showing yourself to the world. Kpop fans like the idea of their idols being human, people just like them, so of course speaking English is a plus, but they don’t actually like when idols reveal themselves, and very often, it backfired to those who did. After all, an idol is an idol, even if they are quote on quote ‘real’ there’s still a barrier between the two of you, they’re a celebrity and you’re not, and we like, whether we admit it or not, to fetichize, fantasize and idolize these people. It seems that as soon as an idol leaves the conventional kpop market they lose the sort of immunity they had as an idol, we don’t treat them the same way and hold them to the same standard. This is, unfortunately, what happened to Amber Liu.

[@jeness]

I love your point about amber being the only idol canceled for being racist. It is almost like talking to a wall when you try to tell fans that their idols are being racist, colorist, or homophobic. But with amber everyone was surprisingly on the same page and I was shocked. I think it is about usefulness. Even in cases where bullying or diva accusations were a thing we saw how swift the public was on the same page for idols they don’t think are pretty or useful (like Jimin from AOA) but how divide everyone was for popular idols. Problematic scandals doesn’t affect the Irenes, Lisas, Zicos, etc of the world no matter the scandal.

[@camieatspandas]

omg THANK YOU. im always seeing these ~problematic~ accusations from many idols and of course people will pick and choose who didn’t “mean” it or if it was genuinely ignorance. n damn people LOVE to turn a blind eye to their oppas/bias etc. surprised you mentioned names like zico, irene and lisa cuz they will coME for you lol

[@brennathecatlover4360]

Bruh Zico gets dragged all the time swap him out with rm from Bts then you’re right

[@brennathecatlover4360]

@@camieatspandas Zico gets dragged all the time lmao but rm and some other idols get defended

[@amy_ambrosio]

@@brennathecatlover4360 true but somehow he's still working no matter what and oddly enough, he's supported or gets support from all kind of people from the Industry He's lost popularity these last years but he's once again working and probably everyone will forget about everything related to him in the future, and will be considered the "nice/goofy/cool guy" as always

[@brennathecatlover4360]

@@amy_ambrosio amber hasn’t really done anything in the kpop industry so obviously they’re not doing the same stuff. Zico still does get dragged for stuff that’s minor compared to some problematic stuff idols have done. If u wanna talk about idols that do get passes talk about Bts twice shinee taeyeon loona etc coz no one drags them

[@sayenka6093]

I think from her comments on police brutality towards bipoc we can see that she is extremely uneducated on social justice issues concerning black Americans. But where she has first experience, for example sexism in the Kpop industry, she articulates herself well and stands on the right side. I personally think that Amber, if she educated herself after the backlash, now has a different opinion on the matter. I don't think she is a malicious person, just an ignorant one. But ignorance can be dangerous too. Which is why it's unbelievable how little Kpop companies invest in educating their idols, considering they pull them out of middle school for training.

[@annejia5382]

this

[@riffgroove]

This opinion is going to be unpopular among all the woke snowflakes, but the gentleman in the video in question was arrested not for being Black, he was arrested because he was actually breaking the law. Eating in that area of the transit system was ( as clearly posted there ) an offense. When the police officer in question advised him of that fact, he became belligerent and non-compliant. THAT is why he was arrested. The color of his skin had ZERO to do with it. Amber was 100% right.

[@NoctLightCloud]

to be quite fair, I don't see Western artists who appear in East Asia like Ed Sheeran, Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande, 1D, or the whole Marvel cast (Marvel has HEAVILY profitted from the Chinese market) educating themselves on East Asian matters, either. I am not surprised that companies don't teach idols.

[@cinnamountain]

Exactly! She was 16 at the time of her debut too, and with being from overseas, her schedule was probably packed in trying to keep up with practice, vocal or rap lessons, korean lessons and god knows what else they made her do. This still doesn't excuse her though but I just wanted to add to the comment about her (and most of the other idols') education, and how detrimental it is if they simply deem academics as a "waste of time" for idols.

[@gamesgames3318]

Yes that's why as a public figure online you need to do your research properly.

[@tobibi4ever]

Her behavior was definitely wrong, but what she’s experiencing is so unsettling : mass bullying, death threats, global hate… I know that some backlash would have been expected but it’s going way too far. She doesn’t deserve it.

[@dimensionalmagic]

Not to be a downer, but after she's killed or forced into some form of disappearance, people will probably stop looking for her. The k-pop industry, as well as the drama industry and the western industry, have all experienced it on a few occasions. Unfortunately, people can never be happy with their existence after mistakes like these to let it slide until they are taken care of eternally. I've witnessed fandoms rejoice when someone they despised passed away and motivated those to try suicide over things that can be learned from mistakes. People often harbor resentments for these transgressions for the rest of their lives and are petty enough to bring them up even when others have made amends for their errors. Even with all these k-pop stars trying to fix their mistakes and even learn from the controversies, I don't think people are going to let that slide as the community is beginning to have no tolerance for any mistakes or such behavior and all. There is no space for development and improvement these days, everyone is watching you like a hawk, waiting for the mistake to happen to eat them. alive. I understand where all that anger and resentment comes from,not sure if harassment and death threats are the options for improvement.

[@Shandoftb]

Don’t be racist, not saying the threats and stuff is cool but you gotta hold her accountable

[@camieatspandas]

@@Shandoftb of course hold people accountable but i don’t think it can ever be justified bullying and telling someone to kill themselves. racist things can be said out of ignorance or maliciousness. people need to learn how to differentiate and ask how they would want to be treated after making a these types of mistakes. i will say blackface something i find deff unforgivable tho

[@jovanavojinovic2506]

Yeah ppl who are bullying her, sending her death threats are bad ppl, period, like how can u send someone a fckn death threat jdjdjdn she said smth that hurt lots of ppl ig but that doesnt mean we all can punish for it or smth like some psychos out there cant wait for situations like these where they can harass someone bc they said smth wrong and so they deserve it ndndndn this world is so messed up, like i wish Amber all the best, i hope she got over this and learned some valuable things from it and the most important thing i hope she's forgiven herself for offending others with her comment, and that her friends and family are there for her

[@Vanilla_Baker44]

Most of the people attacking her, I assume don't care about what she did. Just want a punching bag.

[@markigirl2757]

I didn’t even know she was hated 😅

[@cartoonplanettv]

Right? I had no idea about this, i'm in shock lol.

[@LovelyKissess]

It really wasn't as big as they said. I'm a fan of Amber and that hate did not last. It's just the cancel mob that searches for and tries to find racism in everything that try to keep the hate alive. It was literally forgotten about within a week

[@ewno1566]

@@cartoonplanettv this is everyday in K-pop for poc K-pop fans now you know what we go through.

[@shinyeee1709]

Honestly she fucked up but does not deserve the death threats/hatred and she did apologize. Because it was her ignorance. But let’s talk about something bigger. Because she is not the most popular or prettiest idol and some people did not like her androgynous style or know who she is, anyone will go ape shit over any anything they do wrong. Some will add fuel to the fire base on what they read from others (shallow thinking) Think about indie solo, mid-tier singers, etc. They all don’t have that underlying support. But if the idol is gorgeous or popular they get the pass. Lol Example: Irene, BTS (RM’s n*** word rap or whatever it was), Suga’s white supremacists leader’s speech in his song and many more popular top notch idols. Heck People be claiming he wrote and produce his own songs, my idol so talented & self-produce their music but when shit hit south everyone is like “ohh, he wasn’t the only one in production & composing the song”. Fans proceeds to sweep it under the rug and attack & bi*** at anyone mentioning it. Then says they are sweetest and greatest person who will never act like that or that they know their idols very well & to stop being dramatic over it👀😂 Hypocrisy at its finest.

[@La-PetitMort]

@@shinyeee1709 I think Amber is corny but you're spittin here.

[@Ctrl_alt_drcrys]

I truly believe one of the big reasons Amber was never able to really recover from this was because of the belief that she was more progessive than she revealed herself to actually being. Idols native to South Korea typically get the "they're still learning/it's the culture" excuse (which still doesn't excuse it), whereas many probably had their preconceived notion shattered when Amber didn't fit their image of her. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't have been corrected, but I believe that much of the fandom/kpop community telling themselves for years Amber was some progressive idol to look up to made the fall even harder when she made those racist remarks.

[@TheJrockfreak]

I wasnt even aware that she had a "fall" I still follow her and listen to her music so didnt know she wasnt liked

[@DM.97]

Was it really racism? or just plain ignorance and defending the police? I don’t think she took account that he was black and being mistreated but more like a man who was fighting back against law enforcement.

[@TheJrockfreak]

@@DM.97 agreed, that's how I saw it as well

[@bertram5806]

@@DM.97 she literally said George Floyd deserved to die…that’s more than ignorance. She definitely was being racist and she’s always had these views…I mean after all her and Jackson Wang are literally no different, no wonder they hang out together.

[@Lily-bw9oe]

1l1111❤

[@LayeredGamer]

I think the Onward joke was literally just because Disney/Pixar was hyping up their “first lesbian character” and it ended up being a police officer. It had parallel to Amber seeming progressive, and then going on to defend police lol.

[@zosiexofficial]

In many countries, especially with no systemic racism in them, police is actually respectable as they care for your safety and actually the right wing conservative hooligans who have to pay the fine for doing hate speech grafittis or something hate them the most. Life is different outside of US. I kinda feel sad for some idols that are wrapped up in racism controversies, not because I stan them and obviously not because i support racist behaviour, but I kinda see myself in them, i mean myself before rise of BLM in 2020 and therefore educating myself (and it took a while because i couldn't believe it so i was in denial for some time) I'm sure I said many inapropriate things when I was a teen because i lived in that "colorblind world" in which M.L. King ended racism in 1963 and now it's all good and there is no reason to care about issues blackface for example. I feel ashamed now when i think of it, but that's a reality of living in a monoethnic country

[@aylenrivera5502]

@@zosiexofficial girl... where are you from?...

[@zosiexofficial]

@@aylenrivera5502 🇵🇱 so a monoethnic country without colonial history, like really I was oblivious i'm sorry

[@oliviaisnicole1835]

@@zosiexofficial must be nice 💀

[@jj4754]

@@zosiexofficial this comment is a lot…. So much to unpack

[@kat-lu1bx]

i feel like such a factor in amber's cancellation is that a lot of people see her as "cringe" or annoying. back in the day she had that "llama" persona and just her whole brand is kind of early 2010s, which I think is the real reason she wasn't able to come back from her racism scandal. it's that whole joke that's like "when someone you hate for no reason actually does something bad". that in addition to her not fitting gender norms. i honestly think you see this with shindong too. i don't think he would be as hated in the kpop community if he was thin and more conventionally attractive.

[@kat-lu1bx]

i think giselle is another example of this. a while ago nct ten did the same desi traditional dance that she got in trouble for doing during a live concert and literally nothing happened. i saw people on twitter like "we should hold him accountable" but then doing nothing and even "we're gonna pretend we didn't see that haha" like kpop stans love to go after people if given an excuse but it usually tends to be women and people who don't fit beauty standards. like it's very obvious.

[@GenerationNextNextNext]

It's sad that people hate you for being fun, youthful, or even a little cheesy. Everybody is "cringe" to this generation.

[@katgreer6113]

@@kat-lu1bx no fr giselle got SO much backlash for that but males get a slap on the wrist.. also, when did ten do that?

[@kat-lu1bx]

@@katgreer6113 it was one of their first live concerts, maybe the superm one? I'm not completely sure

[@katanasrcool]

@@katgreer6113 it was the superm online concert, i rmbr cause i saw it happen live

[@vivb4965]

Why is Amber the most hated and not Wendy or Taeyeon ? At least Amber apologized and did the necessary work to learn why she was wrong. What she said was clearly very ignorant but as a black kpop stan I’ve been let down by literally all of my faves for being colorist or anti blk in some capacity but it always gets swept under the rug. I’m convinced as you put it that if she was more conventionally attractive or korean no one would have cared 4 days later .

[@R0lI]

we hate all 3

[@kkentaii]

Wendy is hated though, tons of people wanted her DIED when she fell. Her solo was mocked all over the place and not a lot of people like her personality, only her vocals

[@mademioselle7729]

wait…what did Taeyeon do?

[@chuu_guevara]

wendy is hated as well, more on twitter than other places. but you're right about taeyeon, no one seems to be bothered about her past racism.

[@chuu_guevara]

@@mademioselle7729 idk if there's other things but she once said Alicia Keys was beautiful for a black woman

[@itspowers9107]

Why does everyone ignore the fact that she never saw the video or knew the man was black and cop was white until after she made the comment? After she makes that comment a JK News crew member explains that part and then right after another one of the JK News people even say she didn't know either. Amber then goes onto literally have a bit of an apology and everyone in the group including amber go on to agree what the cop did was harsh at best, racist at worst. Has literally no one seen the whole video?

[@gemmamoon5998]

Is the original video anywhere? I’d like to see it to form my own opinion on this. Also how could she not know the races of the people involved? The footage is very clear.

[@val-ci5fo]

Finally someone who mentions this. I feel like these little things have been so swept over that it was easy to make it look like Amber was being horrible when really it wasnt the case at all. One of the jk crew members commented on Instagram that someone edited out the full thing bc aftr she realized the man was black, she said that Amber took back her comment and realized it was likely a racist issue and discussed it much further. It's awful honestly that no one knew about this at all

[@jillijewel8922]

only her concerned fans looked at the full video. :((( She didn't really see the guy was poc. The laptop was turned away from her, she just assumed and talked about following the rules not because you're a sheep but because you just don't get into trouble. That was literally it. Amber is a really sweet person. She tried to be strong but the world just decided they hate her and it's soo sad to witness all over the years. I love that she just don't care these days, living her life choosing her own path and just being happy of who she is.

[@jillijewel8922]

@@val-ci5fo i still believe it was a setup. :(( she trusted that crew and saw them as friends but i'm glad she doesn't hang out with them anymore. they should have known better. And after so many years I just realized and accepted that a lot of people waited for an opportunity to step down on her. It was a mistake and ignorant one. Her apology was also not very well made but if people cared about her(they don't) they would know how kind this person is.

[@val-ci5fo]

@jillijewel8922 Yeah, I definitely felt that way. I was informed by a jknews watcher that in one of their podcasts, they talked about her without mentioning her name but basically made fun of the situation. Something along the lines of them making a joke and saying, "Be careful, they're gonna cancel you too!" And laughed. Terrible ass friends, and now she's reprimanded harshly by K-pop stans to this day. At least her career remains fruitful ever since she decided to mostly promote in China, she's been the most respected and successful over there and I'm glad she basically got a happier ending after that whole mess.

[@naruparty17]

I feel like most people don’t even hate her because she’s racist and they were just waiting for a reason to start hating

[@angel-ke9vs]

True, I watched the original interview as an African person, and I thought she was just sheltered. A lot of people don't understand how corrupt the police can be because they never had a bad experience with them. Maybe it's because I am not Asian or American, but I did not understand why people were so harsh. I did not know about the rumors and jokes. THEY 👏WERE👏 READY. Its like they waited all their lives for that moment. I am sure some people who were bullying her don't even care about racism 😒 saying she was pregnant is wild 😮 no respect 😮

[@sur_un_nuage]

tbh i feel like people were just hypocritical and secretly hated amber for other reasons like her image but people didn’t wanna come off as sexist but when the scandal broke out they had a legitimate reason or more like excuse to hate on her, i called her out on her racist remark without having to talk about her appearance or even bring up her solo music or her contribution to f(x). i wasn’t the biggest fan of her raps however i actually liked her singing voice. i don’t follow her anymore and idc but no i’m not gonna pretend that she never contributed anything or that i never enjoyed anything she did. amber deserved fans withdrawing their support for her but people need to reflect on why they actually hate amber.

[@kaylalezine2295]

I literally wrote fanfiction about her and had her pictures edited as my school laptop background and lower with luna was my bop for a while. I loved her but this was just plain ignorant of her to say especially during global BLM protests for George Floyd's happening.

[@sur_un_nuage]

@@kaylalezine2295 i believe it wasn’t during that time she said it before, it was ignorant nevertheless

[@kaylalezine2295]

@@sur_un_nuage it was though. after George Floyd's death and the protests the video aired way toward a 3 weeks into the global protests these was edited and posed along with other projects being finished up

[@val-ci5fo]

@kaylalezine2295 It wasn't during The BLM protests that happened in spring/Summer 2020 and Amber's scandal happened in November of 2019. It was way before it and she even actively participated in these protests and donated to 3 different organizations

[@kellyb7561]

3:57 just wanna say Henry did have a feature on his solo debut, two actually with Taemin and Kyuhyun

[@saranguyen2788]

exactly!

[@K-MasterGirl]

I personally think that most women in Kpop have a harder time coming back from things than men. How can men be a part of sex trafficking, call people blackies, be violently fatphobic, drunk drive, abuse their girlfriends, etc and still have fans protecting them and be shielded by SK society but one girl can wrong about a extremely complex issue once, or just be a feminist, not wear a bra, or even just date someone and be shunned for the rest of career? Amber who was seen as a perfect quirky saint among her fans was the best woman for Kpop fans to blame for all their troubles especially after she went viral for making out with a man just a few days prior. I can’t forgive her fully myself and you don’t have to either, but it’s still something to think about. Luckily, she’s doing fine in China, but the USA and Korea are pretty much closed off to her. I’m not sure if it’s time to reconsider my feelings on her. She did help with future police brutality cases but she was out of sorts and late with it. I just need to see more from her that shows that she’s learning and using her platform. I will not be a part of the hate given that we saw how that literally killed idols- idols that were close to her. And NO ONE should either. I don’t care if she made a bad choice to say that, she doesn’t deserve what she is currently receiving. Sorry for the rant.

[@tired690]

​​@Nyanko Meiji late response but Amber's gnc/tomboy look coupled with a few of her songs hinting at attraction to women (supposedly) led Alot of ignorant international fans to assume amber was gay and her being seen making out with a man kinda broke that assumption. It went viral bc of that, however the reason it probably helped contribute to career dying is coupled with the ignorant statements abt police brutality is fans were disappointed that amber wasn't gay and then she said that which basically ruined any perception of her being progressive so fans tore into her

[@giraffe6856]

I'm Korean, and I've listened to 2nd generation of K-pop songs, and I didn't know people thought Amber wearing tomboyish clothes were just because the company told her to. If you lived through that 2nd generation of K-pop, you'll know there is no way that is possible, even for a money grab. Tomboy in Korea was never a thing even to this day, there are no idols who radiates that androgynous look like Amber does. Her wearing androgynous clothes cannot be something company told her to in the first place because that is just not possible at that time. So I always thought "Maybe Amber told the higher ups, asking them to understand her style choice" and not because "company told her to" It's a shame that she did leave that racist comment in the past and that was a right thing to be called out for but I didn't know anything about those since I..barely searched up about her, I just really liked the androgynous look she have. I remember even when fx was very popular, most of the girls were more into Sulli or Crystal and rarely no one talked about Amber. And I didn't understand why? later realize..most people just like.."stereotypically attractive looking idols" she's the one who made me realize I'm also a tomboy so her existent kinda means a lot to me even though I was barely even an fx fan. But the whole "She is a tomboy so she is progressive" thing is kinda...idk..weird to me? I think it's just another people's perception on "who she think she is" later leading onto even more hate because of disappointment. But why? why androgynous look of women has to be seen as "progressive" this is what I don't get. I also experienced something similar to this. Since the success of Idle's song "Tomboy" and..concept of "girl boss" and "girl crush" ,me, having an androgynous look made me even harder to make female friends.(ironically) because everytime I meet certain women around my age, not all of them but SOME have this..expectations on me. I know this because whenever I start to say something like "oh I like Taemin and Key from shinee" they give me this "look" and says "Oh I didn't know you are into those, I thought you would be more into girl groups" or "Oh so you're...one of those girls okay" like, WHY. I just like what I like, and that's it. I don't get it why people certainly...have this disappointment on admiring certain idols (mostly male), and expect me to not like dolls or anything stereotypicaly "girly" stuffs? It really feels like, they're being kinda hypocrite. Like..most people who says those things are the ones who care about the looks even more..than any other thing is what I'm getting it. But they think being androgynous is like..a "woke" thing when really, it's not? At least this is what I think. But the whole marketing on girls wearing androgynous clothes makes people THINK being androgynous IS being progressive and "cool" when it's just my fashion choice. And there shouldn't be any..."androgynous" or "feminine" or "masculine" labels in the first place.

[@Pinkclouds512]

I’m definitely not Korean, but i was in those comment sections in 2009 lol. Her look was very polarizing.

[@ok-mq3mr]

no one is reading all this

[@x_crona_x5674]

Have always will always stanned Amber. Gone to several of her concerts, talked with her quite a few times, she's genuinely such a fun and sweet personality. I know other idols have done the same if not worse stuff and they never get the shit that Amber got. Hold all racism accountable. Hold all problematic behavior accountable. I don't support or agree with everything amber has done and I will point out when she has actually done something that wasn't okay but I'm not going to unstan her, bully her, or send death threats. Nor should you, whether that be with Amber, or any other idol.

[@vl0731]

Exactly! I will always stan her too

[@tt4days346]

i unstanned her , as a black person i cant proudly tell people i support her anymore due to this incident so i have chosen to just stop stanning all together. Why should i support someone who talks about people like me like that?

[@x_crona_x5674]

@@tt4days346 You don't have to stan her. I never said you do. When I said nor should you, I meant you shouldn't bully or send death threats. I also hope that if you hold Amber accountable and unstan her, you hold other idols to the same standard. That includes, Jessi, Jay Park, Chaeyoung from Twice, BTS, and any other idol who has said problematic things.

[@Asheee0613]

@@x_crona_x5674 just out of curiosity, what’s the problematic thing that BTS had said?

[@rainbowpixel_4145]

Im bad at following what musicians do on social media and my friend just filled me in on this after I went to her concert and Im trying to research it, did she ever properly take accountibility?

[@cammythings1901]

I really do hope Amber learned her lesson. Now that she's back living in California (or at least she was for a little while), she has friends who can educate her on these issues. I know she attended a BLM march back in 2020 after the controversy happened. I met Amber at one of her solo concerts in February of 2020. She was so sweet. I know deep down she has the capability to unlearn any prejudices.

[@yoshikitte]

@A what pictures..?

[@cammythings1901]

@A No I haven't

[@hallooos7585]

@A Yeah what pictures explain

[@Lo-me2hd]

@A What pictures?

[@04leakg64]

@A wait, it wasn't kristal?

[@almariaghern1876]

Another example I can think for this series is Jae (ex Day6)

[@xheralt]

OP is pretty harsh about Amber's rap skills, unfairly so. Amber's got pretty good flow, because she understands the genre, having grown up around it. "Random English words" was frequently how is was back in second generation, across all groups. She does NOT however, usually write her own raps, so if the lyrics are clunky, that's the songwriter's fault. She may have gotten some editorial control later in f(x)'s tenure, but recall (based on her comments) that SM rejected most of her material...that's why she had to self-produce and release Rogue Rouge on Soundcloud. Amber stated she's not a real rapper, but that's because she doesn't do cyphers, improvisations, or battle raps, like American rappers do. It's an easy statement to take out of context. For KPOP purposes, she's pretty good.

[@cyrielle_]

Yeah, especially for 2nd gen girl group Amber was one of the better ones. SM had almost 100% control on f(x) music, including lyrics, rap flow, the size of each member's part, song production... Amber's rap in their latest (Red light album and onward) releases are pretty good for SM girl group imo.

[@BeamingTaeng]

Besides, back then we all understood how SM would train awesome vocalists and then give the rap positions/parts to whoever had "the look". SM doesn't train bomb ass rappers like YG, hence, their rappers are mid among rappers, but good idol rappers overall. Amber is a really talented artist so seeing OP talk so harshly about her made it impossible for me to not think they didn't really made research on her and her career. She is a nice idol rapper, a great vocalist and a good lyricist. It's upsetting seeing 3rd / 4th Gen stans talk about things they didn't experience, because you can tell they simply don't get it.

[@saintnicole3209]

yeah i always judge kpop rappers based on if they can sell the part of a rapper or not and amber definitely can.

[@beeboopbapblap]

I think this was just OP's chance to air their biases lol. This video seems unfairly harsh. We all fuck up, and she apologized. I don't think she deserved this blacklist, mass-hate-fest.

[@sienna5083]

People also forget that there was no rapper in f(x) before debut. Amber was appointed to the rapping position when they were told they were going to debut and the song was picked. She trained as a vocalist not a rapper. Take that into account, f(x) being 2nd gen., and SM not usually having the strongest rap lines, Amber did fairly well.

[@VinceTheCreatorr]

So this video is basically "The Internet Bullies Amber and it's her fault" ?

[@venusluv-i1v]

The worst part about this is that there are so many other Kpop idols that have done worse than her. People use the term "racist" often out of context. A racist person would have to see black people as inferior to other races as is the definition. Amber from what I have seen isn't racist, but she was ignorant about the situation she was speaking on regarding the person that was black and the issues they were experiencing with the police officer. As a black person myself, I have had some horrible encounters with police so I get why people were disappointed with her reaction, however Amber's thoughts and opinions are not the worse we have seen in Kpop and other idols have gotten away with it more often. Amber made one big mistake and that's thinking differently about ONE situation.

[@Portiayuu]

the thing is amber was asked about the issue and she was only shown some short clips which is when the guy was resisting to follow the policeman so in her point of view it looked like the man wasn't following the law and it isn't connected to being racist at all. What she was wrong about though is giving opinions about a certain matter without researching about it much because look how bad this resulted when she only gave her opinion for that short clip and that showed her ignorance.

[@jkumo6563]

TBH When you mentioned the beauty/popularity/talent/usefulness privilege that some idols have over others made me think of how similar Amber's case is to what Sorn is going through right now. She became the new punching bag of kpop stans this past year and every so often people drag her name and accuse her of certain stuff due to one mishap she had. It's also very interesting how just like Amber, Sorn is not Korean either. She'd be a good candidate for another video like this if you keep up the series.

[@misschi_xoxo]

Wait what? I didn’t know that was happening to Sorn. What exactly happened?

[@duckiemomo7511]

@@misschi_xoxo omg same I wanna know. I remember her from whenever she one that random pop competition and that’s how she got her start

[@seonsunnysunshine]

@@misschi_xoxo she posted a tiktok of giving her fave clairs beauty products to the darkest squid game character and ppl thought it was because she was being racist/colorist but it was actually because he was her fave charac but her explanation was drowned out by the hate

[@spoiledm1lk]

@@misschi_xoxo couple things... 1st: She posted an IG story in which her friend was wearing a racist face mask and everyone ganged up on her even after deleting the story and apologizing. 2nd: She was accused of queer baiting for posting a TikTok in which she said she preferred receiving compliments from girls and being called pretty by a girl. However she always said she was straight and that got ppl mad 3rd: Her skin care products tiktok trend in which she "gave" a bunch of skin care products to Ali from squid game. Many people said she was colorist/racist for this bc allegedly she wanted to offer him skin bleaching products. However this was proven false because none of the products she was promoting were for skin whitening. Either way fans still called her racist/colorist for this incident. Anyways all these three incidents have led fans to discredit her hard work as a soloist and her promotions for CLC many ppl on Stan Twitter even claiming she is the reason CLC "flopped". They basically drove her out of Twitter at this point because of how bad the hate has gotten

[@idk_why_cant_i_just_be_idk]

@@spoiledm1lk i feel like i have seen many, many straight girls say they prefer compliments from other girls. it's less about her "queer baiting", and more about kpop fans fetishizing lesbians imo (not saying you were saying otherwise, it just sounded so incredibly stupid to even get mad at her for that lol)

[@mochiiiii7453]

P.S. these are not my opinions nor do I claim these to be facts. just a bit more info on why Amber got hate for speaking about Sulli after her death During their Red Light promotion, there was a rumor that Amber and Sulli were not in good terms and that Amber was disappointed with Sulli and blamed her for the hate their group was getting at the time. And then shortly after Sulli left F(x), fans noticed they unfollowed each other and Amber's sister spoke up saying Amber would never do such a thing while Amber stayed silent. Amber was also the only F(x) member who would post and celebrate their anniversary and the birthdays of other members. Amber never included Sulli in those anniversary pictures and never greeted her on her birthday as well. And then after Sulli's death, she would post birthday greetings for her and include her in anniversary photos and was the most vocal about Sulli after the incident. Fans thought that Amber had no right to do those things after ignoring Sulli for all these years and then acting like she was always there for her. They also thought that Amber was just doing all these things to lessen her burden and guilt. I do agree that they should've been more understanding because at the end of the day, Amber and Sulli still spent years working together and you can see that they were close.

[@GenerationNextNextNext]

That had to do with her management team. When Sulli left the group, all of the group members were highly advised not to post anything about her. The thing is people believe RUMORS. Sulli was unfollowed by all the f(x) members at one time, just like BTS unfollowed Jason Derulo. This isn't because they are actually on bad terms, though, unlike what fans think. This is because the company wants to make an example out of the situation and force idols to do "damage control". Idols have the responsibility to act like nothing unsettling happened, and that means not posting reminders of the incidents.

[@cremline7484]

Thats sad af😥

[@Vanilla_Baker44]

The things that kpop fans weave is crazy. Even if they disliked each other it's normal. It's also possible they just weren't compatible and the minute the contract was cut, they just decided not to bother. There are some people who I never liked in school and cut ties with when it ended, but if heard of their sudden passing I'd be affected.

[@marshmallowluv15]

I know things can change, but if you watch any of their reality shows, Sulli and Amber were so sweet with each other. Their relationship seemed so genuine, I seriously doubt it would’ve turned to hatred.

[@zhongli6201]

but this happens with every sm artist and I dare to say with every kpop group. if one of them leaves the group, and even worse if it's like the sulli's situation, the members are required to act as if nothing ever happened and that member was not part of the group at all. look at g idle and soojin for example (which is sad 😔). but no one, not fx members and not sm staff would be so insensitive to be bitter about members talking abt sulli time in fx after she passed away.

[@gamesgames3318]

I'm glad amber apologised for her ignorance and racist behaviour. And I agree with many comments that the apology was heartfelt so there's no need to further lash out against her online when there are tons of other bad behaviours of Asian celebrities endorsed by many others.

[@abc_jv_xyz]

The thing you said about idols being usefull and therefore getting away with controversy is so true, like would Krystal (being the visual, lead vocalist and most famous member in fx) get as much hate as Amber if she said the things Amber said? Edit: Oh fuck, wrote this before watching the whole video and you gave the same example as me.

[@brennathecatlover4360]

I’ve never seen Krystal get dragged for problematic stuff she’s done

[@barbaradasilvachagas5376]

Krystal was r@c1st with Luna at the beginning of f(5). the group took a trip to africa, and she said that Luna could live with the people of the village since her skin was dark like theirs.

[@no.6377]

@@barbaradasilvachagas5376 I was just gonna mention that. This group has _been_ racist. At this point, I just assume kpop idols are racist unless proven otherwise, because so many of them have said or done some truly disgusting racist ish and it doesn't affect them at all because the "stans" truly do not give a damn. The excuse is always that 'Korea is not as diverse ' 'it's a different culture' 'they don't know any better'.

[@annejia5382]

krystal is soooo hated since then til now, she's even being dragged by people who hate jessica. 💔 just like people who come for hayeon when they are actually a taeyeon hater. 💔

[@lalune1103]

I feel like somone shouldn't be punished forever because they slipped up and said some shit.

[@aSUGAaddiction]

This is one of the best vids I've ever seen commenting on the hypocrisy of the kpop stan and how "usefulness" dictates the reaction to racist or sexist comments. I wasnt shocked by what she said, b/c ignorant statements like that are a dime a dozen when you're black, and expecting "progressive" or "woke" ppl to not make them is asking for disappointment. I still follow Amber on IG. Making stupid mistakes is only a problem if there is no learning from it. I really hope she has learned from this whole thing, she becomes a better person, and whatever she does makes her happy.

[@mara_q9979]

Can you tell me what happened?

[@LovelyKissess]

@@mara_q9979 A few years back there was a situation where this guy was at a train station eating in a area that he wasn't supposed to be eating in An officer asked him to leave the area but he refused so the officer asked him to throw the food away then, and he still refused He started being really rude and disrespectful while still disobeying the station rule so as law enforcement are supposed to do, they detained him and an er said he deserved it because he should just respect the officers But since people want to assume it was racially profiling (since breaking the law doesn't seem to exist anymore once skin color is involved) they tried saying she was racist. FORGETTING THE REAL MEANING Do with that what you will. Hope I helped at least a little bit while NOT trying to be a racist chaser. NOT MY THING

[@mara_q9979]

@@LovelyKissess yea but what does that have to do with Amber? Why is everyone hating her?

[@LovelyKissess]

@@mara_q9979 Because she said he deserved to get detained for not just listening to and respect the law. Everyone was TRYING to connect it to racism which it wasn't. She was just saying how it should be. Respect the law

[@maryvampiregirl666]

@@LovelyKissess people just want to hate Amber

[@GenerationNextNextNext]

People, even my fellow Black people, don't always know the difference between racism and regular ignorance. Ignorance can be offensive, but it's really a matter of someone bringing an unknown thing to light. Some think any time you miss anything regarding Black people it's motivated by racism, and they really think other races should know ALL ABOUT racism the way they do. That's not realistic. If you aren't Black, you can't possibly know what it's like to be Black. The real definition of racism is to believe a whole race is inferior and therefore deserves to be looked down on. Amber, in no way, has shown she believes Black people to be inferior, not their culture, or lifestyle, appearance, or otherwise. HOWEVER, she did fail to see the nuances of that police interaction with the man and the sandwich, and this is because JK party only showed her clips of the incident. She failed to see racism as a system. She only saw a man who refused to throw away his sandwich, and she said the only Subway she's ridden was in South Korea, which emphasized cleanliness. She said he should have complied with the law. She's not wrong that the man should have thrown it away, but she is wrong that he should have just taken this and not done anything about it, considering other White people around him had food. At the time, it wasn't explained that they were only doing this to the Black man. But the fact that she took the police's side in any way made her an enemy of BLM movement. As far as appropriation, Amber raps. Rapping and being successful alone can make you come off like an appropriator. But Amber never put on the "Blaccent" or wore her hair in cornrows or any caricatures like that, unlike CL from 2ne1, Jessi, and many many other Kpop idols nowadays. No one says anything about Lisa's Blaccent, or the Blaccents in G-Idle. No matter what she does to redeem herself, no one will ever forgive her. They have that right...but I always say everyone has a turn. If we unreasonably cancel everyone, without a chance for redemption, it will turn back on us. When we fall, which we all will, we will be left penniless, too. I ask people what could she have done to redeem herself? She's always had Black people working with her, dancing and on tour with her. She went to a BLM protest to educate herself. She stopped talking about Black issues. What else do they want her to do? I know the answer. There's nothing she can do. There have been many Kpop artists who are LITERALLY racist (meaning they look down on Black people and think they are inferior) and have been forgiven. They might think only one Black woman is "pretty for a Black woman", like Taeyeon, which literally revealed she thought dark skin was inferior to light skin. Even some American artists (like Beyonce and Nicki Minaj) have been guilty of prejudice and appropriation, such Beyonce being in that Indian music video with starving looking Indian kids in it and Nicki Minaj in the Kimono and sexualizing it. But people lick their butt cracks. There is a thing called "pretty privilege". Before the Subway incident, there have been many people who hated Amber and tried to bring her down. Two girls tried to say she said the n-word, but they were using a duplicated Facebook page made by an anti-stan as proof. When people already hate someone, they will wait in the wings for them to screw up and then pounce like a Hyena to destroy them. Some people use the opportunity to put their own out there on a pedestal so their faves can be more popular.

[@marshmallowluv15]

Well said!

[@LaulloYHWH]

It’s so easy to say that it’s ignorance tho… y’all will excuse a lot of thing for k-idols but not white people

[@maryvampiregirl666]

Your comment Is **chef's kiss**

[@k.zchaft4776]

Back then F(X) was the most hated group ever Sully hated for being adult Krystal hated for her introvert Victoria hated for being "famous Chinese member" Luna hated for being "black swan" of the group And Amber hated for being tomboy From that point everyone hated everything they do Most of us already know what happened to our poor Sully Krystal used to be the most hated before Sully, it became worst after Jessica departure from SM and Sully's death Victoria back to China and played famous drama sparked more hated for herself Luna never got recognition for what she did, her duet with Krystal kinda lit and used for so many famous dramas ost but her solo flop even though it's so gooodddddd And then Amber, this video already talked a lot about her

[@theonlyreallovelyzstan]

I won’t lie, after seeing this repeatedly happen, especially as a black kpop fan, it’s become extremely exhausting and has gotten to the point where I can’t even be surprised. When an idol gets lashings for doing something problematic I just sit back and like the shady tweets because at this point I have a really hard time believing these idols have never seen their industry peers getting torn a new one for doing problematic things. Especially with the way kpop is globally expanding. Now while I do find SOME drags pretty funny, once a few days pass or if the idol puts out an apology I don’t think it’s necessary to continually drag them further. Like after that I decide to either unstan the group or shun the member in question (which doesn’t really do anything considering they’ll still get my money). Also on a side note, if there is one idol who I think will end up like amber and never completely recover from their scandals it’s Giselle from aespa. Like I see her following in this path of being strongly hated unless she gets some Jessi level redemption arc (which MYs are trying by pulling the mental health card but I don’t think it’s working on too many people). As of right now she is definitely one of the most hated idols and not just on the western side of things but in Korea as well because for the exact reasons you said, she’s considered less attractive than her members and is said to add the least to aespa. Like her story reminds me of amber’s so much, she was mainly added because she gave off that western edgy vibe they were looking for (I know I know she got those nepo baby allegations but since they were never confirmed I leave it out of conversations like this) and because she speaks English, went to an international school and said she was active on stan twt, people thought she was the woke member and people made her the underdog favorite up until she thought it was cute to skrt skrt on næggas.

[@jeanneann3545]

how about you black people address asian hate crimes commited by you people first before policing us asians?

[@iLoveYangYosoeb]

I guess Giselle just have to donate to some black organizations to be forgiven like yall forgive Namjoon...

[@tallybarnie5453]

@@iLoveYangYosoeb don’t even start 😂. No one was even mentioning bts why do y’all do this?

[@NanamiYukiyo]

Giselle has nothing to worry about cause shes very much loved in japan. Plus we already know kfans are racist anyway. If SM plays their cards right, aespa could be have stronger foreign fanbases

[@tallybarnie5453]

@@NanamiYukiyo Tbh you never know. I idol can be beloved one day and absolutely trashed another 🤷🏾‍♀️ but I hope Giselle learns that the stuff she does isn’t ok and that she can actually grow from it like some people do

[@icyvalleygurl2702]

Whaaat??? Amber's adlibs and lines what made some of their songs pop and stand out from other K-groups and songs

[@faeriecake]

The most hated? Amber was literally so insanely popular among other artists. Maybe not crazy popular among fans, but she collaborated with so many people because they were genuinely good friends. She loved making music with her friends and everyone LOVED her. I followed f(x) for YEARS and once she tried doing things on her own it didn’t really work out. That doesn’t make her the most hated.

[@somethingboutthekiss]

They literally glossed over the fact that she was the most popular member abroad during the majority of f(x)'s career.

[@sofiaw4654]

their standard are “one of most hated idol in western kpop fandom” which is the truth with amber liu

[@iLoveMidari]

Amber is most definitely my ultimate bias ever; I feel like she was one of the few complete k-pop idols (or artist, in general). She's a really cool rapper, dancer, an amazing singer, and she's the complete package. I found it sad how she was part of such an important group and how she made a really good impact (by breaking standards and stereotypes) on the sub-genre. It's sad that SM let her go that easily. Her image per se is something that's been debated for a while. She made a two queer songs ("Ready for the Ride" and "I Love Somebody") and fans and overall people who know her generally might assume her sexuality. It's sad how she broke the norms isn't being acknowledged as much. Amber, in my opinion, paved the way for k-pop idols now such as Dami, Moonbyul, and Mia, and maybe even Jeongyeon from TWICE back in 2015-2016. The fact that she was capable of beating the Korean standard of a girl her age, plus having so much talent and engagement with her fans definitely makes a difference. That wasn't really seen when she was in f(x) nor that's really seen nowadays in the K-pop industry as much. The racist scandal is something I can't really comment on. As a black person myself, I understand what she was trying to convey, but maybe she didn't word it correctly. I saw the video myself when it came out, and it's a little fuzzy, and I also find it hypocritical. In my opinion, no one deserves any type of violence but the colored man was being disrespectful. He shouldn't have been treated in such a terrible way, but the man was being disrespectful. Even so, violence is violence and it's never the answer. She apologized for it and recognized her mistake; that matters to me, at least. I find it hypocritical how many people bash Amber for being racist, but continue to stan artists such as Wendy, Taeyeon, or even Jessi. They're talented artists, for sure, but, c'mon. Some people criticize and point out exactly what they do but on another point of view, just because it's not them. Amber apologized, and the fact that she took her time to acknowledge her mistake is something valuable (I'm black, by the way). Many other artists just ignore the situation to either not accept that they're wrong or because they don't want to. Amber is a talented woman and she's such an underrated independent artist. In my opinion, she deserves more recognition in the industry.

[@NanamiYukiyo]

colored man?? you are not black

[@CheerUp2]

Oh no what has Taeyeon done???

[@NanamiYukiyo]

@@CheerUp2 she said Alicia Keys was pretty for a black girl which is extremely shitty but comparing it to someone who believes in police brutality is not the same thing

[@CheerUp2]

@@NanamiYukiyo Sheeeeeesh I had no idea 😬 but yeah I suppose true

[@katet8639]

You are not black. Stop pretending because a black person would never say a coloured man... wtf?

[@Val-yl5yz]

I think this is a 'you should know your audience' issue. Amber is one of those idols that is really more famous in the west than in Asia, and western KPOP fans are generally progressive. So she alienated the core of her fanbase and now she is left with very little. She is free think and say whatever she wants, but her fans are also free to stop supporting.

[@susu_m]

I had no idea this happened, but I always have liked amber & her solo music. Amber seems like others I have encountered who haven't had negative encounters with police so they will always side with officers as if they can't be wrong

[@hockeyfan-seyeyy]

I've actually listened to all of Amber's albums. She has a very good voice. I like her.

[@MayaLove777]

I like Amber too

[@flonny1340]

Well I don't.

[@The_onset_tutor]

I’m not sure anybody realized this but her 2 BEST FRIENDs DIED because of the industry she was a part of. She deserves a break.

[@The_onset_tutor]

@@jemiinou neither does calling someone a bad person make YOU a good person. She’s a human with flaws who’s still learning. I honestly trust her more than other people from the industry because of how much she exposed about it.

[@The_onset_tutor]

@@jemiinou there’s a difference between criticizing and downright hating someone, maybe you’re more reasonable than other people, but the general public isn’t as smart or considerate. As for the video, I saw the video, and yes she lacked the context at the time and apologized; but regardless, she has a right to her own opinion.

[@galaxygashina]

This is a very well made video. Especially on the part of usefulness. In general intl kpop stans are harsher on english speaking idols based on the notion that they should know better which isnt always the case. I see this happening again with Giselle and some of the very cruel comments she gets.

[@MayaLove777]

I still love Amber Liu her solo music is great imo. I love Z! it's a great album!

[@ATWTMVTVFTVSGAVRALPS]

She was ignorant and didnt know much about that matter, not straight up racist

[@kkhshout573]

The part about some idols being "useful" was so on point. It reminds me of the time many years ago when Shindong of Super junior said women shouldn't be fat (or something like it) and he still gets so much hate for it even though he apologized and explained what he had really meant (he has actually done a lot of good for the industry as being a plus sized person himself). I think hating some artists is just the popular opinion on twitter. People love to act superior and rightful by bashing everyone for every mistake. It's of course important to call out the toxic things being said, but answering with toxicity and bullying isn't going to fix the issue. Why indeed some artists continue their lives as nothing ever happened, and some artists hear about it after 10 years?

[@ilovemomo198]

i became a big fan of Amber because these Amber’s hater. There was few years ago, I watched some similar contents like this one, and it makes me get interested on Amber. Then I got to search her stages, her musics, her talks, her shows and lots more about her. Then I found out she is an angel just like most of her friends said. She directs her MV, she wrote songs & lyrics. Her stages are amazing and voice! & her talks inspired and encourage lots of people！ I would say what a shame if people don’t know her or hate her because her looks.

[@danieldiaz615]

I never thought of the "getting away with something because you're attractive" thing, but it's actually true, I'm an OT5 fan of Red Velvet and I do believe Irene's apologies, but the image I had of her since then is not the same, however, it seems like most people completely forgot about what happened, idk why, but honestly everybody seems to be more interested in her looks than in what she did, I understand the position not having to talk about a scandal forever and wanting to give her a chance, I feel like I'm there too, but there are some that treat her like an angel, which we know is not true, is just crazy to completly ignore something that huge just cause she's beautiful, I do think her looks have to do with it now that you mentioned it

[@kris.007]

I like that you pointed out how hard it is for non-korean idols. They get mistreated because they are not korean but it's not spoken about there. Should do a video calling out all those moments.

[@aurelijs8891]

Okay so, Twitter is horrible, Amber was out of touch, felt really hurt by mean memes and won't be popular in America. Damn, 17 minutes not well spent.

[@maryvampiregirl666]

This vid felt unnecessarily agresive and petty

[@pastelshades2860]

@@maryvampiregirl666 it really did

[@xiaoxia5]

just remember it’s only one person’s(Felt) opinion. people can chime in with their opinions as well though. at the end of the day, you shouldn’t let anyone else’s opinions change the way you feel about something or somebody. i don’t let anyone(especially people online) influence me on what i should think or like. the video came off toxic and one sided to me.

[@maryvampiregirl666]

@@xiaoxia5 true

[@ddbangtannim2270]

Honestly, I still love Amber, but I just think she needs to think before she speaks. As a black person, I am happy that she at least apologized for her ignorance and didn't do the same mistakes again.

[@pollypocket2282]

Amber has a beautiful voice, is a great songwriter and has a great personality. People need to get a life.

[@eardrummed]

I met Amber in KCON 2106, she literally stepped in front of the crowd out of nowhere. And everyone went crazy. I was not aware she had suffered this scandal. I never thought her tomboy image was fabricated but I did think she was the most American of Kpop idols. Shocked to learn she had and expressed these views! Completely agree wtih you when you say it's a cautionary tale. If you have time, can you please do a video on Jay Park? I think he's one of the most hated kpop idols for basically being a dick , but I've never had the time/energy to actually find out why. Thanks again.

[@GenerationNextNextNext]

It was completely taken out of context honestly. She was only showed half a clip on JK news. People heard about the incident and didn't actually watched the video, and the fact that she sided with the police officer in any way (which the man was breaking the law) made her look bad.

[@ivyward1393]

ehhh jay park is so far removed from the idol scene now, he's doing really well for himself. basically what made him stop being an idol was that netizens found old social media posts of his that say harsh things about korean culture and idols/training (i think he also used "gay" in a derogatory sense)

[@lesyeuxofrory]

jay park has been very racist and appropriated black culture a lot and so ppl don't like him for that and also he's shit on korean culture before he was really doing music in korea which is why he also isn't liked so much there! i don't hate him but i understand why people would not want to support him or anything

[@yourgiirlm3l]

I honestly feel like that video was taken out of context & it didn’t help Amber did come off as ignorant. I think she should be held accountable by her actions but hated? Absolutely not. She’s still super talented & has had major influence in kpop. She helped/is helping beat gender norms in kpop and opened the doors for many idols like Moonbyul, Yeonjun, etc. I don’t think Amber should of “lost her career.”

[@ginesadance6629]

When Shake that Brass came out I was obsessed with the song. I had no idea it was so disliked.

[@goldenmxnae]

Bruh I like amber a lot and I didn’t expect people hated her songs or hated her like that tf is wrong with them, they can just appreciate stuff how it is

[@boltcat]

When talking about tomboyish female singer, you are right to point out Ella Chen (btw, her group name is read for every alphabet, like B.O.P. and S.E.S., not just "she"), but I think at that time in China, the biggest female singer is Chris Lee Yu-Chun (and still is quite big until today), arguably even bigger than Ella. She is the winner of 2005 Supergirl (think American Idol but China) and the final 3 that year featured 2 tomboyish contestants and they are by far the most popular that year, and making the trend of androgynous female singer following her win. Not saying that you are wrong that they pick Amber because they wanted to replicate Ella (SHE as a group was very popular throughout the 00s), but if they are talking about China market, Chris Lee was the biggest tomboyish star around 2005 onward. I'm not sure if they specifically said it was Ella in that interview, if they did, then I stand corrected.

[@spillthattea88]

I was thinking this same thing! Couldn't have said it better though 👏

[@reb9995]

She's not cancelled, she'll make a comeback soon, just watch Sisters Who Make Waves season 4

[@rachelslimin]

she's staring on a Chinese show now, and she's the most successful on the show. its called 乘风破浪

[@aralluring]

I used to watch JKN religiously and actually got into kpop because one of their past crew members was friends with Amber. I was excited for her to guest star, but definitely did not expect it to go that way.

[@myragingwhormoans]

omg jkn was the shit when i was a kid

[@ITGURU922]

I totally agree with you. Amber was a very disposable idol so it was easy to cancel her

[@jen5301]

i think everyone already said what needs to be said but i just wanted to add that during her early days as an f(x) member she might not have been the most talented and her rap was certainly not the best but did she really have a choice? you all must know young kpop idols have very little autonomy. she had to make a living and to be very honest many kpop groups pre-2010 unfortunately focused on visuals more than actual skills and talents. so can’t really blame amber for this. some of her more recent songs are actually way better (she’s probably had more training since) and suited her voice a lot more so i think she was involuntarily bounded to that tomboy rapper character when she was in f(x).

[@Emi-dw8di]

I literally found out a few minutes ago that amber is hated. its amazing to me how people can turn their love into hate so quickly, growing up being a kpop fan she was loved, “shinees little sister” “llama amber” and how she was liked for being able to have guy celebrities friends (minho, jackson, etc) its amazing how hypocrite people can be. she deserved to get called out, def her comments were ignorant and racist, but its amazing how they can attack, massive bully her but a lot of other idols who have done worse are forgiven because “thats not their culture 🥺” “they didnt know” im not saying hate all idols but treat all the same.

[@ZianaSue]

She has not been canceled for me. I still listen to her solo music. I recommend "other people" I'm a black person and I don't consider her comment racist. I am also of the belief that one shouldn't act disrespectful toward police. A lot of police brutality that occurs where I live is directly connected to the behavior of the person the police is trying to arrest or interact with. However, I also know not all situations are the same.

[@shineyt287]

Just want to make a comment real quick and say thank you very much for giving a more nuanced opinion about Amber and her past. As much as I absolutely believe that what she did in the JKN interview was wrong (and imo, she should've never went on that show to begin with), I've noticed so much hypocrisy and bullcrap happening with certain stans over the years and how they will hate her for just about anything for no reason at all (just like what you talked about from 11:10 - 12:30. It's been so tough as a fan of F(x) because they seem to be the one 2nd gen Kpop girl group that's always between a rock and a hard place, when it comes to their legacy and what fans remember them for--and I just wish that more fans would be more mature about the conversations they have about controversies that happen in K-pop.

[@jillijewel8922]

we never had a lightstick. f(x) begged sm for first concert after 7 yrs and it seems sm only agreed to spite on sulli for leaving the group. we had the name meu after 7 yrs. they overworked vic because she earns a lot in china and foreign idols has to give more to sm than korean ones. amber and luna always breadcrumbed, krystal and sulli only worked on individual projects. the girls begged and begged for cb but never happened until they had it and ended the contract. WE WERE SO HAPPY! THEY SEEM ALSO VERY EXCITED but after just one month Sulli passed. It was traumatizing tbh. I still can't listen to their songs to this day. I am also a bit of shawol cuz it's automatic when you're meu(fx fan) but you know what happened to jonghyun just 2 yrs prior. Just that month I braved myself to listen to shinee again but then sulli's passing happened after just a few days. It was really really tough. Even today, the girls are very private about f(x) and i don't blame them. Even if it hurts, as a fan sometimes I feel abandoned but I also understand them so much.

[@K-MasterGirl]

I’d also like to add, she didn’t want to make Shake That Brass really at all, she won’t fully admit it but she at least said that SME made her add it that album and she seems to have taken it as a joke because she only wanted to make those slow or edm songs that she makes now. So I can never really blame her for Shaking that Brass.

[@val-ci5fo]

Actually in one of her livestreams she did admit she doesn't like Shake that Brass at all lol. She said Heights was supposed ot be her title track

[@jillijewel8922]

i honestly think she's cringing at it hahahaha it's very different from her solo songs

[@viki7268]

Ngl I do feel kinda bad for her even though what she said was really bad. She hasn't done blackface or said the nword so she definitely does not deserve the "most hated idol" title. In fact, I'm pretty sure some of the idols who have done things as bad as that are really popular due to Korean fans or talent/beauty.

[@LovelyKissess]

She didn't say anything bad, but only true. You don't disrespect if you want to be treated kindly and respected in return. People these days just ignore the truth and her saying it just hurt their feelings and for the dumbest reason, they're saying she is racist. Like what?

[@maryvampiregirl666]

@@LovelyKissess yeah, this vid felt More a like a rant

[@LovelyKissess]

@@maryvampiregirl666 And the emphasis was like they were trying to get people to feel the same way they felt about her

[@chichilafemme6336]

@@LovelyKissess she’s not racist but what she said wasn’t most certainly not true and she didn’t even understand what she was talking about, she didn’t even know the full context of the video. Police brutality is real not just in America but globally. Just bc someone has a badge and a uniform does not mean they are a good person. What you say is a blanket or general statement which sure generally would be true but in context within the specific video it doesn’t really apply bc that’s not what happened

[@LovelyKissess]

@@chichilafemme6336 What she said WAS true. RESPECT AUTHORITY. Yes it's real, but that doesn't mean we're allowed to disrespect cops or disobey the law, small or large, just because of that. It kind of makes things worse. AND it also doesn't mean she's seen it herself. And even if she has, SHE'S STILL RIGHT. RESPECT THE AUTHORITY OR YOU DESERVE TO GET LOCKED UP I saw that full video and that cop was very calm while the guy was rude and disrespectful the whole time. He was even given a chance to leave with his food and come back after he was done, but he kept making it a "race" thing and so it made everyone else think that's all it was as well. When it wasn't

[@h5y878]

She has done way waaaaaaay less bad things than so many other K-pop Idols but because of her entire essence as a person she is getting more heat than any other, the accountability because of her ignorance about the police nature on the United States is absolutely fair, as it is also fair that she may excuse herself saying that she's so used to trust the police in South Korea and scratch some sympathy with that, but people are being hypocritical and uneven, the level of consequence on their speech that most of her detractors have is absolutely zero, just check who they stan and they're basically pooping on their so said morals

[@exogen9428]

Omg I so agree with the last sentence 😂😂

[@AlyRose_L]

I would like to state my opinion on amber…but I know people are gonna come after me for some reason, I’m literally obsessed with her, she’s my fav female K-pop artist, I think she’s pretty talented, it was kinda harsh to say she couldn’t rap, and it was “random English words”, she’s not a rapper anyways, Fx didn’t have a rapper so amber took that spot, she’s a natural born singer, she has good flow, she may not be like Lisa, or other female rappers but she’s good for what she has, I did get upset with the comment she made, but people also gotta look at it from the actual video, some people are commenting off of a short clip found on KZbin not then actual video, in the actual video she states that she didn’t known he was black but I’m not gonna get into that and start anything, 😭😭 love her thoooo

[@GenerationNextNextNext]

People expect Amber to use a "Blaccent" when she raps because somehow they translates as "good flow". Lisa uses a Blaccent. That's not rapping flow. That's appropriation.

[@kaylalezine2295]

@@GenerationNextNextNext bro nobody expects them to why you puttin words in people mouth? Amber's voice doesn't fit the rap she tried to put out. If she found a different style of rap that suits her voice like melodic rapping/sing rapping then maybe. Also Lisa gets dragged on the daily for her misuse of aave, cultural appropriation of not only hair but clothing, and not even being a real rapper having them written for her. You may need to explore the black side of kpop before speaking.

[@Maria-he1db]

I still don't get what she said wrong in the video, he broke the rule there and then when confronted (Politely, that cop was very calm) he began to get defensive and cuss towards him. It didn't need to be a big deal, he probably would have just gotten a warning if he didn't argue it. (Though the cop still stayed calm regardless and the man wasn't hurt or anything) I fail to see how that makes Amber racist, the girlfriend mentioned about "other people eating here" then proceeds to say they had seen some drinking coffee. (Not eating) I didn't see any others in that video eating and maybe he had just been there in the wrong place at the wrong time and got caught but still.

[@Maria-he1db]

I think people are sensitive (rightfully) about cops confronting black people, though I think this particular case was blown way out of proportion and she wasn't in the wrong.

[@reian9521]

i always anticipate your videos, you have the most nuanced takes!

[@amorfatikhb]

I think this was a really well-structured and articulated video. I was a bit skeptical at first because your tone sounded tired (I’m new here, so I don’t know what to expect yet), but your tone matched your script (which is good), and that’s kinda hard to do, so props. I think you had a good balance of evidence and insight, which is really important to making your piece stand out. So just, yeah, I think this video was really good, and I hope you keep making more (not necessarily controversial or more negative topics, but in a similar QualityTM).

[@LifEsongChimE]

This is a really good kpop analysis and I really look forward to future videos

[@blueviolet4092]

it would be interesting if you did Sorn next. She's literally the new punching bag of kpop since last year, and she is so hated by twitter kpop stans that she rarely posts there... her biggest (and literally only) scandal is a friend of hers doing blackface on one of her ig stories, but she was also accused of being colorist, stealing tiktok content, queerbaiting and being uninterested in politics (in this last one she was accused by thai fans because of a tiktok)

[@blueviolet4092]

also she is hated by blinks and neverlands because she's friend with Lisa, once she got EDITED OUT from a photo by AllKpop (if i'm not wrong) or she was accused of interrupting a live of Lisa and Jisoo... she's your next content

[@wndychng]

I feel like this video is actually spreading or creating hate towards Amber. I read some of the accusations and didn’t know it was a big issue at all. She is def not cancelled and she’s just doing her thing, which we look forward to. So happy she is herself and is not molded by how people want her to be!

[@Pinkclouds512]

Definitely

[@Madpadness]

May I suggest sorn of clc for this series. She does have supporters but also alot of haters(especially on twitter) and I'd be intrested in hearing your take on her hatedom

[@trueseattleite6958]

I LOOOOVE Amber Liu!!! I love her solo music! One of my favorite things about her is that she always includes her friends in her music videos. I think she's so hot and has such an awesome personality!

[@LovelyKissess]

Well, I love Amber. Her personality is everything

[@kkswang7238]

i absolutely adored amber and f(x) while i was in 3rd grade like she was my biggest role model and i wanted to be just like her. for a school test we had to write an essay on what we wanted to do in life, and i said become a youtuber bc “my role model amber liu has a channel called ‘what the pineapple’”. i had these two stuffed llamas that i named after her two dogs, jack jack, and something in korean. i swore that once i turned 18 i would cut my hair short just like how hers was in the 4 walls mv. i was literally obsessed with her it was pretty weird now that i think about it. amber and f(x) we’re my ults all the way to sulli’s death when i was in 8th. i still kept up with them until amber’s racist comments. devastated is not even the word i was when i forced myself to unfollow her that same day. i haven’t acknowledged amber since 2020 until i came across this video. seeing all of the f(x) videos made me tear up with nostalgia and reliving all of these events that you described in the video made me a bit overwhelmed, but at the same time happy?? i tried checking in on amber again by visiting her instagram and she’s still acting the same way she did years ago, which is alarming bc she’s like 30 now…in short this video is amazing

[@Pinkclouds512]

I think she’s extremely ignorant, but I don’t think she was racist. She should have known better.

[@kurousagi4930]

Could you please explain what you mean by she's still acting the same? Because I'm kinda confused and not sure if I just don't see it since I'm not really keeping up with most of the artists I listen to

[@val-ci5fo]

@@kurousagi4930 She meant that Amber still has that 2010s millenial personality which tbf is the case with a lot of Millenials

[@kurousagi4930]

@@val-ci5fo thank you for answering

[@sampadabarde4872]

she's the most lovable person ever! Her songs, her voice, her kindness inspires us everyday.

[@ikarsk4378]

The whole "sandwich man scandal" was blow out of proportion. Amber never said anything about the man race nor police brutality was happening. People pointed out his race so i don´t know who is more racist there. I feel bad for Amber since she must be shook about the whole thing. She was clearly only reacting to situation happening in the video not realising man´s race as other people /the public archangels/. Those must feel amazing with yourself for stoping such horible person as Amber saying that people should not broke any laws, i am really aplauding to them. Being artist must be hard these days as people labeled everything to racism and the right porpose of that word is fading.

[@bb.yani1]

she literally said a black man deserved to be abused by the police in a altercation that was started by him eating a fucking sandwich. What a great person right??????

[@lyannaal6896]

@@bb.yani1 she never ever mentioned his race, she said he deserved it without "black man" you just being ignorant and wanna hating on her.

[@bb.yani1]

@@lyannaal6896 are your fucking stupid????? So a man eating a sandwich deserves to be beaten for eating a sandwich??? Where is your brain. She didn't have to mention his race, we all knew what she meant. Just say you're racist and go.

[@lyannaal6896]

@@bb.yani1 you are the one who stupid in here, she not even saw that video directly, when they showed her full video and she saw black man she sad "oh sorry" do you even watch full video or just half of the video??

[@Maria-he1db]

@@bb.yani1 He was never abused and she didn't say that???? she said he deserved the ticket which is not abuse He disregarded the rule and was being disrespectful when the (Calm officer) tried to give a warning. People just love to hate her, you don't even know what she said and jumped on a hate bandwagon.

[@asserm.8047]

this was one of your best vidos so far. really insightful, well researched, well structured, easy to follow with an excellent flow of the content within the video itself. i also liked how you inserted your opinion in some instances (for example at the end) yeah i rly liked it :))))

[@ayoe8303]

This was an enjoyable and well done video. Thanks for the hardwork 💜

[@afuzzyrush]

Thank you for making a nuanced analysis. This is very good. I’d like to see more!

[@bdstudios6088]

She does not deserve any of the hate

[@sfukuda512]

I don't want to speak too much about the main issues covered in this video. This was a fair look into what brought Amber down as an artist. Instead, I want to talk about that statement from Lee Soo Man. "China must open its doors to Korea once again." If that's not a mistranslation, that seems like a remarkably arrogant statement. It has a whiff of cultural hegemony. I am not sure how such a mindset could be cultivated in someone, but anyone who has watched any amount of Chinese entertainment can see that this is not how the Chinese market operates. China does not just blindly follow trends that are targeted towards the Chinese market by foreign companies. For instance, Sakura is incredibly popular in China, right now. Could Lee Soo Man have predicted this with his formulas and marketing research? No, and no one could have. Also, it's very strange that a Japanese idol is so popular in China due to China's historic hatred of Japan, but there it is. My final point is that Korean companies will find limited and temporary success in China before being deluged with a Chinese entertainment machine which will attempt to replicate every aspect of the Korean idol system. This won't happen overnight, but the groundwork has been laid. It starts with limited partnerships which get Korean companies on-board with their Chinese counterparts. Then the copying begins. And honestly, this whole "C-pop world domination" thing may not happen at all. The Chinese government has to see value in such things as exporting soft power and competitive cultural hegemony. They don't seem to be focusing on that, at the moment. But I think it's a good idea to be mindful of the intricacies of the Chinese market. And just having a single mainland Chinese or Taiwanese member in your group does not guarantee that they will be loved by all Chinese people everywhere.

[@cmlkhf]

this is pretty interesting

[@osmanthuswine190]

I suddenly remembered WJSN - they were clearly actually targeting the Chinese Market at the start of their career. Not just because they had 3 Chinese members - they were actually releasing Chinese versions of their title tracks. A shame that they weren't able to continue that path - they seem to have a great Chinese fanbase too. The 3 Chinese members left Korea to stand solo in China and they got a massive success - much bigger than they could've if they stayed in Korea. 🥺

[@melodieimwindy]

Sm: "China needs to open its doors to South Korea" Also Sm: mistreats all their chinese idols

[@Alexa-cr1vy]

*cough cough* - Chaeyoung

[@ruu406]

I seriously hate the blame amber for everything so much. Don’t people remember she’s a human??

[@vemarqui]

if he's someone you're comfortable covering, i'd like to watch you talk abt that one nct/wayv guy who's currently on hiatus (name starts with l). i don't think i've found kpop video essayists that talk abt him in a more detailed, serious, nuanced(?) way. but i completely understand if you don't! edit: if you're comfortable talking abt him, it'd also be nice to bring up the "dozen" discourse-how the word came to be, how it's used, and how it affects the kpop fandom scene... stuff like that. i think it warrants a video of its own(?)

[@dokessezeaka5159]

I personally don’t think amber was racist for that comment like that is a WILD jump and statement for you to make. Ignorant maybe and misjudged but RACIST????? Now come on

[@llanimay]

This is so wild, I was searching for the video Crush's concert and the whole controversy with that right now, just cuz I hadn't seen it myself. I was not expecting to see this !! I remember a couple of years ago Amber spoke about a controversial video dealing with police and black people, and people didn't like that, neither did I. I almost forgot about that, and I didn't even remember what happened afterwards whether she apologized, whether I unfollowed her - I really forgot about this because I've not seen her on my timeline anywhere in years 😭 Just the other day I was listening to F(X) and remembering my girl crush on Amber. Idk man, this shit was crazy, but still somehow unrememberable :/ I didn't realize she was considered one of the most hated ! There seemed to be so much good about her, but this situation really tainted things. All I can rly do is hope for the best for her, she was wrong for what she said, but you're right, we continue to see other idols getting away with literally anything. I think it was the expectations put on Amber as an American / assume progressively opinionated person + the fact that people already disliked he work that made it impossible for her bounce back.

[@saskialr]

(sorry this is gonna be a long comment lol) interesting and pretty fair video!! i think it’s so important to call people out for problematic behaviour and to not give a platform to people who will misuse it. however there’s definitely a lot of double standards when it comes to ‘cancelling’ and the extent to which people take and twist the situation for their own enjoyment. a really interesting point about usefulness, i havent seen that take before but it makes a lot of sense sadly. okay so im not trying to excuse her words, but i just wanna provide a little context from the podcast episode since i managed to watch it before it got taken down.. so while the group was watching the clip of the man and the police officer, amber didnt have a clear view of the screen and after saying the guy ‘deserved it’ she asks what his ethnicity is. one of the girls thought he was hispanic but they check the headline again and realise he is a black man. tbf she maintains the same viewpoint after realising he is black so idk if that really helps her case, but ig it just suggests her comment wasnt racially motivated even though it was still very ignorant and inappropriate. i cant remember if this was before or after watching the clip, but on the same podcast amber talked about her relationship with authority. basically saying that her whole life she has always been very obedient to authority figures (i think she said her mum taught her to be like that but i could be remembering wrong). she talks about how she has become a little more rebellious recently, telling a dumb story about how a bouncer told her to take her hat off and she did but put it back on later. imo this might have influenced her comment and the way she disapproved of the guy resisting the policeman, but again doesnt excuse sticking with her original response even when finding out some context. i was a really big fan of fx and amber, and it broke my heart to hear her say something like that. i did view her as more progressive for being american but also her actions like criticising body shaming, talking about having lgbt friends on a korean show and even just being openly friends with many male kpop idols. so yeah, extra disappointing from someone i thought was better, but i would like to think shes learned and grown since then :)

[@shininglion2872]

Now we all know she ain’t the most hated

[@mmaullon]

Wtf amber said someone was being mean to a cop was not good and people got pissed? Yeah people need to get their heads out of their asses

[@chill_out_Lifes_too_short]

I have not being following Amber for that long, but as far as I can see: 1. Amber has a young black man as a dancer in her shows, I think is name is Domino. 2. Also in her shows she has a drummer, who is also a black man. I'm sorry but I don't know is name. 3. On a show called "hello82" which brings artists and their fans together, guess what, the fan was a young black woman, named Melissa. Amber and Melissa had a great time and it was fun to watch. If you are curious the link is: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4qbZXZropyWqZI Now, if you were a racist person, would you hire black persons to work with you? And more importantly, would those persons work for you? Would you allow yourself to spend time with a black girl fan, or would you demand for a different person to came on the show? If the man eating the sandwich was Caucasian, or Asian or native American, or I don't know, a green Martian man, wouldn't Amber have react the same way? It was not about his color, it was about not respecting the law. Do you really think that Amber is the most hated k-pop idol? Really? When there was the Burning Sun scandal evolving prostitution, drug trafficking, police corruption, sexual bribery, rape and spy cams. Jung Joon Young, Choi Jong-hoon of F.T. Island and Seungri of BigBang were arrested, Yong Jun-hyung of Highlight resigned and the agency for Lee Jong-hyun of CNBLUE admitted his involvement. This was the first video of the OP that I saw, and quite frankly it will be the last one. Spreading and perpetuating hate, just to make a quick buck on KZbin at someone expenses, who actually does the heavy lifting and works hard, only to be criticize by some greedy nobody is not my cup of tea, and it really gets on my nerves. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[@maryvampiregirl666]

Your comment is **chef's kiss**

[@cindyversion1201]

Finally some common sense

[@Shandoftb]

Might be hard to understand, but hold kpop stars accountable for their actions. You can be racist and still hire black people, you’re using the same racist talking point that old racist white folk do. Do better

[@chill_out_Lifes_too_short]

@@Shandoftb Yes, of course a racist can hire black people, especially a public figure, as a diversionary strategy. But, would those hired people allow themselves to be used as a smoke screen and continue to work for this racist? I think not. And if you think so, you are insulting the intelligence of black people. And, yes I totally agree that anyone should be held accountable for their actions or their words, regardless of whether they are a kpop star. Racism and discrimination are crimes punishable by law, at least in my country, and I agree 100% with that. People should be treat with respect, no mater what color, gender, shape, religion, sexuality, profession or whatever. But, then again, in Amber's case she didn't say "oh, he is a black man, and because of that he should be punished". She said "oh, he is being disrespectful of the law, and because of that he should be punished". And that, even in my very liberal country, is a given. If there is a law you should respect it. If not, be prepared to suffer the consequences. So, where is the racism here? And where is the respect that Amber also deserves? Did she said that the man should kill himself? No, but she was told to. There is a big difference between holding someone accountable with the intention of making them a better person, and butchering them in the public square just for the fun of it. And don't you worry, I will be waiting for opportunities to make my old white self better, but this..., this is definitely not one of those.

[@elisejackson2854]

Not saying she's racist but your examples make NO sense. Racist people hire, fuck and marry black people all the time so yes racist people will hire black people. I really hope you truly don't think that hiring black people makes you not racist against them.

[@troyg254]

I kinda disagree that Amber is average at rapping. Her rapping in fx’s title songs might not be super impressive (I blame the artistic direction in choosing the title song), her rapping in most b sides of Pink Tape, Red Light and 4 Walls is really great. In fact a lot of fx’s b sides are greatly overlooked.

[@jesclle]

could you talk about hwasa? i know the things she and mmm have done but they’ve apologized and imo so many kpop stans mostly in twitter still attack her everyday even tho it’s been years. mmm’s official yt was hacked years ago and the antis changed the mv titles to super hateful titles, stan twt being determined to drag hwasa into any argument to make their faves look better, editing MAGA hats on her, etc. i just think the hate she gets as well as MMM in general is unproportional to hate other idols get who may have done similar problematic mistakes in the past.

[@lia_anh]

There is truly a double standard when it comes to some kpop groups, especially Mamamoo. Although some groups are able to shake off that ‘problematic’ image, somehow Mamamoo can’t. Maybe it’s due to the fact that you can’t really criticize Mamamoo’s skills in singing and rapping and stage presence so people resort to hate on them for their dancing and controversies? Not saying you can dislike them of course, just don’t hate on them. This may not be the truth, I don’t have any source or real proof, but it seems to me that groups from smaller companies have it harder when it comes to these issues. I also noticed that as soon a group from a smaller company (or not actually) is seen as a threat to other fandoms (may it be for their talent, success, or popular songs), they start becoming more criticized by kpop Stans, take Momoland for exemple.

[@reemie.s]

pov you miss the entire section of this video talking about how pretty and useful idols get passes for being wildly racist. doing blackface and saying the n word multiple times isn't a mistake. its a pattern indicative of a deep seated bias.

[@jesclle]

@@reemie.s it’s rlly not something i said i excused, but it doesn’t also mean that stans have free reign over how badly they can treat an idol. everything isn’t black and white like you could have done problematic things without being a person with harmful intentions toward people. they definitely deserved the backlash but after years and people still trash them daily even if it’s not in the subject of their problematic actions? kinda sus. also considering how stan twitter can be so hypocritical over their actions when their favs do it

[@reemie.s]

@@jesclle again i come back to this notion that kpop fans have that online trolling is somehow consequences. their careers experienced no material consequences for their actions, which is why they continued to do them. and as an arab, acting like their racism is a thing of rhe past when one of their most recent music videos was literally blindingly racist to us is funny. ppl hating on mmm online, in a language they don't even speak is not them facing consquences for their racism. knetz did not give a shit abt these scandals, and it didn't impact their careers at all, which, again, is why they continue to be racist. also. at what point does repeated racism despite backlash become intentionally malicious to you? if you've been told your actions are racist and harmful, then keep doing them, thats mal intent

[@luckynbunny]

@@reemie.scan you please tell me which mamamoo's recent music video is racist? i'm not a fan, but i'd like to know

[@cinnamountain]

To add to this conversation as a whole (coming from a MeU, aka f(x) fan) I think that we as the ones consuming the products that come from this industry need to be firm in our decisions and beliefs. And what I mean by this is hitting them where it hurts most: MONEY. Stop buying, stop streaming, stop supporting. If we want companies to truly listen to us and start doing something about the bigger issue at hand (as in, idols making racist, colorist, xenophobic, etc. remarks freely) we need to show that we as consumers of this market, do not want whatever they're trying to sell us if it comes from someone who is ignorant and/or hateful. And I know it's easier said than done, and most kpop fans are teens (targeted audience wise) so it's harder to completely detach from it, but as someone on her early twenties, the older I get, the more convinced I am of this. I am personally not supporting any of Amber's solo projects since she made those remarks, in ANY way. And same goes to other artists I stan (or rather used to) that have made any of these type of statements publicly, be it kpop artist, or any other type of celebrity. I don't hate on them either, because that is still engagement. I simply stop supporting altogether, and even if me doing so is not making a big significant difference, I know that this is the most ethical decision in my opinion, and I stick to it.

[@Spities]

I'm not obsolving her of what she said because that was just horrible to say, but as a black women who grew up with very little police interaction, I can see where a mindset can come in and taint your perception of those who get arrested or assaulted by police. Because they 'don't listen' or 'don't behave'. But it would have been better to empathize with both sides and not say anything than vilifying just one party in that particular situation. She should have thought it through first. I didn't 100% know all about why she disappeared cause I still follow her on insta, but I can see why. Amber was my favorite of Fx, but excellent points were made in this video.

[@jayrossxo]

Amber isn't as talented as others... like you said her "raps" are talk/singing and her raps aren't note-worthy. She's not an outstanding singer and she's not the best dancer. She seemed to be added to the group for the "image" and for them to enter the Chinese market. I really feel she was used as a filler not because she is outrageously talented. Other solo acts in SM are talented enough to stand on their own, she can't. On top of that, the bad press and social media just crushed her completely. She probably suffered a lot being in the industry though, the backlash she got is unnessccary. You're right, if you're the black sheep in Kpop, everything you do will be highlighted x10!

[@GenerationNextNextNext]

At least she doesn't put on the fake Blaccent like the other female rappers in Kpop. I've heard her sing live, and she sings better than all of Black Pink live. She killed Mariah Carey's All I Want For Christmas.

[@LaulloYHWH]

What’s crazy to me is some fans in the comments: « They don’t know any better, it’s ignorance… they do not know about racism against bpeople in Korea or the meaning of the nword » but they be the first one to try to rap / dress / talk / wear hairstyles like bpeople Y’all pick and choose the ignorance of kpop idols

[@lalakuma9]

Yo I'm just saying, just because someone is Asian American it doesn't mean that they can't be racist or have authoritarian views too. Amber having these views may or may not be due to living in the more conservative Korea for so long, but that doesn't matter because even an Asian who has lived in the US for all their lives could still have the same views as her. For example, did you know that a lot of Taiwanese Americans support Trump because they're so afraid of Mainland China? Also people are complex and they can be bad (and good, gasp) in different aspects of their lives. It's ok to call them out for their bad behavior or bigoted views but acknowledge that they might not be 100% terrible.